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Mishra Dhatu Nigam Ltd
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Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q4 FY '23 Results Conference Call of MIDHANI Limited hosted by ICICI Securities. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Amit Dikshit from ICICI Securities Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Yes. Yousaf. Good afternoon, everyone, and thanks for joining the call today. At the outset, I would like to thank the management for giving us an opportunity to host this call. From the management, we have Dr. Sanjay Kumar Jha, CMD, Mr. M. Gowri Sankara Rao, Director Finance; and Mr. T Muthukumar, Director, P&L. Without much ado, I would invite Dr. Jha for opening remarks, post which we will open the floor for an interactive Q&A session. Over to you, sir.
Thank you, and I extend a hearty welcome to all the stakeholders, shareholders for this important conference call after our annual results. There -- all in fact, this year has been a very unique here for MIDHANI. Unique in the sense that even though we have got the sales of INR 871 crores. But we had some area that PAT has come slightly lower compared to the previous year. But in addition to that, this was -- I will come to that in our discussion afterwards.
There are a lot of challenges we have faced this year, that cost of power has gone up extensively, cost of our fuel also has gone up extensively, almost 1.5x compared to previous year. At the same time, the raw material cost also have seen a quite big surge in the raw material consumption, cost of the raw material, not [ consumption ] the cost has gone up. Considering all 3 adversities also, if you see our EBITDA is almost maintained to that similar level as we have got from the previous year.
The reason behind that, a lot of -- if you see our power -- specific power consumption has come down. And also our specific fuel consumption also has come down. So it has compensated that cost because of this. But in that -- in addition to that, the raw material cost has also given a lot of impact -- and in that, our outsourcing that whatever used to do outsourcing has come down. The 2 major developments in this year that our Rohtak facility, which was already, I was impacting with you earlier, started working, and we have got this year in just 1 quarter. In fact, it has worked in the first -- last quarter only. In the last quarter of Q4, we have got the sales of INR 32 crores from Rohtak. And Wide Plate Mill, the project, which was the commission almost in a couple of months back, there also we have got -- it has stabilized now in this year, and we could able to get almost sales of around INR 219 crores from that Wide Plate Mill.
In addition to that, the [ saving ] which I'm talking today on the outsourcing has come because of the operation of our Wide Plate Mill. During this period, a lot of other facilities like 8 tonnes vacuum induction melting also got commissioned. Just now we have crossed 100 [ refites ] also from that equipment and this equipment has given the first year itself, just initial month itself, we have got output of a alloy called [ HAS alloy C-276 ]. That business, we have captured only because of that VIM, the vacuum induction melting 8 tonnes. And using our Wide Plate Mill, we have done a very good substitution of the import that is of the HAS alloy 276 place and seats -- and those achievements are very good with strong foundation for the company, and we are expecting now that this business is going to grow further in a big way because as of now, the entire quantity of -- in the value of around INR 250 crores to INR 300 crores requirement is getting imported in the country. So our idea is that to capture that market as much as possible in the coming -- because of that mill.
In addition to that, this mill also has a lot of new developments. We are able to do -- develop the armor steel, which we used to get from the outside earlier, the armor suitcase, we are making ourselves and we are doing the armory of our vehicles, which has been done in our Rohtak facility. We have also done a lot of export area, there is a tremendous progress in the sense that many new alloys we have developed and we have supplied to the overseas customers. And there's a lot of good indication for this year based on that, that we are expected to get the good amount of orders coming from export market also.
In addition to that, this year has seen a highest ever order booking from the aerospace. We have crossed INR 130 crores aerospace order, we have got the highest in the history of MIDHANI. At the same time, superalloys category, we have booked almost INR 138 crores order we are booked in superalloys also. Titanium, of course, we are doing earlier also, but this year also titanium has gone a good order booking. And direct export, which used to get earlier used to take the deemed export also into our account. So this year, we are focused on the direct export, which we have got almost an order booking of INR 35 crores in the last year or are opening from that side. And good indications are there.
Some of the highlights for the export I would like to mention to the investors. We have supplied a alloy 8 rings to the U.S.A. and that firm is applying to the SpaceX for their launch vehicle. So this was a very small amount of order, but it has gone for the evaluation. Once it is successfully evaluated they are going to base the order for these rings from our company. We have also received the 3 different orders coming from [ Platin Vitni ] which is the already Poland of their brands already, we have got the order and we are expecting the other places also -- [ Platin Vitni ] place a lot of Canada requirements for other countries, requirements also. And we are expecting that MIDHANI will be approved as a supplier of [ Platin Vitni ] in the future, and the audit is expected in the month of -- next month.
I'm also happy to inform you that we have also got the order from the Israel -- Rafael from Israel. And there, we are already supplying maraging margin steel for their applications. And subsequently, the GE Healthcare also has approved us for a special alloy layer, which is being used in the health care system that is 909 and MIDHANI is going to be one of their approved supplier in the future. And initial orders already we have received, and we are going to execute that.
So like that, in the oil and gas, also a very leading a big company of the U.S., they have also come and they have given the trial order to us, and I am sure that one of it is getting approved, we'll be regular supplier. [indiscernible] Rolls Royce also has audited MIDHANI also we are going to get the initial requirement from Rolls Royce, they have received the order, and we are going to execute for their requirements. So like that, the many -- we are -- our people supply into Sweden, Turkey and Germany for the different type of requirements. So export is the one thing I'll say this year, the 2023 has been -- '22, '23 has been an excellent year for MIDHANI in entering in the domain of the export area in a big way because we are the multiple customers, many customers, and that's also in the high-end customers, basically coming from the aerospace and health care, those things are as high and premium markets we are trying to capture.
In addition to that, the many other international program for our domestic projects also is going on, which includes already we have executed for the advanced multi combat -- medium combat vehicles for our air class for our [ MCA ] program. Also, MIDHANI getting supply material for [ Kavari ] derivative engines, which is going for making the unmanned air combat vehicles. And many other like, of course, LCA is already we are in touch with that. And now currently, we are trying to see that how we can analyze the materials you for our Sukhoi aircraft engine. And [indiscernible] already, we have done earlier as I earlier also said about titanium alloys. Now superalloys alive also, we have made the blades -- turbine blades for [indiscernible] the [indiscernible] engine. And this year, our [ scale ] melting furnace also is almost commissioned and now we are making a special alloys used for that in the biomedical applications. So it is under trial now, once it is approved, that material, that will be another very good opportunity for us to enter in the new horizon of the business.
And my new project 10-tonne vacuum arc remelting, VAR, new plant of titanium is coming up, and we are almost going to commission very shortly with that plant also. So the project is also getting completed. So in this total activities is full of activities for us. And we have to -- we are eagerly waiting that how we can get certain other requirements. One of the major products in the bullet proof jackets, this is the new development, which I think the investors would also see that we have made a bullet proof jacket, special one for Air Force, is called Garuda, and that is the first time developed in the country, having very unique features, productional level of BIS Level 6 and IJ4.
And also, we have made our product acceptable to Air Force and we are going to supply shortly this month also, we are going to supply in the next month, we are going to complete the orders. So this will be one of the unique developments by your company. And that has been our -- I think the first time in the country, and we are the only today. So we are well be trying to see that how the product can be used for other arc process also. And there are many other developments, which I would like to answer as we go for the questions and on. So I'll try to close here. If you have -- and on financial and [indiscernible] once the questions are there, I have director of finance with me. Operational efficiency, we have director person is here. So you will try to answer all those areas.
[Operator Instructions] Our first question is from the line of Manan Poladia from MKP Securities.
Am I audible?
Yes, yes, audible.
Yes. So my question is basically, from what I see in your gross lot approximately 2 years ago, was about INR 400-odd crores, 430-odd crores and you've been doing a revenue or a [indiscernible] basis for the last 3 years of INR 800 crores something. So that will insight of 2 maybe 2x. What I want to understand is you put in about INR 600 crores of CapEx in the last 2 years, right, in the 2 new factories that you put up. What I wanted to understand was what is the potential, in fact, from these 2 factories.
Yes. In fact, you have put a very right question that why your products are not increasing. That is I think your question in.
Yes, sir.
Okay. in fact, earlier also, it all these projects, whatever we have commissioned, and we have -- there's a lot of technological challenges we have to resolve. So if you see our one enhancement I'll talk about one of our major investments that is around INR 500 crores plus a Wide Plate Mill. So Wide Plate Mill was made to -- design earlier to use only a specific product. So their turnover was spectrum was very less. But we have to modify the equipment to -- for the commercial application. And those things require some time. So I think this year, I'll say it is a year for development in the products, development of products using this facility. You will see the impact out of output of that in the next coming years -- months and years.
Okay. But sir, my question also was that what was the expected impact -- in fact, basically, like are you expecting to a sort of number on this 1, 1.5x, is that a number that you can quantify?
Number quantification, I cannot tell you at this stage, but we are -- market potential is very good. Many of our products have gone further -- we have given for qualification. We are expecting the results. If the results are coming all right. Definitely, it is going to increase, as you said, 1.5x will go for 2.2x also.
Okay. Understood, sir. So is there anything that you are guiding on a consolidated basis for the company in terms of the next 2, 3 years, like in terms of sales or PAT growth.
See, at this stage that value is figures and all I cannot definitely. Our target is in line with the requirement of the respected line of the ministry where you might have seen the Ministry of Defense also is going to increase the production almost 1.5x total production in the next 2 to 3 years. So MIDHANI is also allying with that.
Okay. So -- and on the operating profit margin basis, you would say 30% is a good number to go.
Operating profit margin, I don't think it will be maintained at that level because once you are going in the products, which were highly competitive in nature, the market that much margin may not be there, but we'll try to see that how we can -- as I have told in the beginning, only the fluctuation in the raw material cost is a big issue today [indiscernible] is very important. Geopolitical situations are not very favorable.
I completely understand, sir, with the Russia-Ukraine. Is there a 5% range that you would guide, 500 bps, if you were giving [indiscernible] room on both sides, then what range would you guide?
[indiscernible]
Sorry?
What -- I could not follow -- you said...
If you had to [indiscernible] the operating margin [indiscernible]
Within a 5%.
Sir, within a 5% range, if you had to guide OPM, then what would you guide, sir.
I have not -- you are telling now it is 30%. It will become 25%.
In still to I'm asking if you had to guide with a 5% range for margin of error, then what would be your guidance? That is my question, sir.
25% to 30%.
The next question is from the line of Nikunj Mehta from [ Well Cardian ].
Good afternoon. So I'm looking at the numbers for the last 5 years. And we've put in a lot of capital, top line has been flat. Profit has gone from INR 180 crores to about INR 217 crores, but at the same time, our inventory has gone up from INR 500 crores to INR 1200 crores [ 25 crores ]. That has kind of resulted in us being INR 100 crores or INR 90-odd crores of cash that we had in 2019. Today, we had about very close to about INR 500 crores of debt. And capital employed has expanded, but top line is still not crossing about INR 900 crores also, it used to be about INR 700 crores then. So on the P&L side, whatever developments that you spoke about in your opening remarks that is encouraging. But this inventory, do you consider this as an issue? And what are you planning to do as a team to correct this issue and a year or 2 down the line? Where do you see this balance sheet skewed up towards the working capital intensivity, how do you -- how do you plan to solve this working capital issues?
Yes. In fact, you have rightly mentioned about that inventory issue. We are also very serious in that. And you might have seen that this year, in spite of raw material costs going up, then also we have maintained the inventory on the tune of hardly very less increase compared to the previous year, earlier, increasing at a very high rate. This year, we have controlled I'll ask director of finance that to finance to add further on this issue.
Yes. Mehta, rightly said that inventory has gone up, but this is mainly 2 reasons are there. One, we are establishing new facilities, like WPM has started, Rohtak facility has come, and we have started we make them because of new facilities and our production value also is going up, production of items is going up. So if you see -- but compared to Q3, Q2, now the inventory is coming down, which we are planning this year, it will come down further add new business -- because of our production time lines, some quantities are there, which we are going to reduce in this current year, '23, '24. And as far as the inventory raw material inventory has come down, or WLP because in production process, the inventory has gone up. But compared to Q3, Q4 has come down. We will reduce further our aim is to reduce further and make the end product rating and discuss to our customers that we are planning in '23, '24. '23, '24, our target is to reduce the inventory.
Any quantification, if you can give, how much the reduction could be in number of days or in absolute rupees crores?
The absolute number of base means it depends on our range of production. If we produce more value items, inventory value increase. See, MIDHANI will produce low alloys steel to very high alloy that means the high-end steel is also there. And we produce more high-end steel to a requirement of our customer. The inventory value is usually more. When we supply to the commercial grade from low alloy steel, it will be less, like when we supply to the [indiscernible]. Now present conditioning, we are completing the supply spending with [ vesro ] VSSC and the HSFC, there some suppliers are there for which orders were received in 2019. If that as we are closing this year, definitely, this inventory will come down by slowly, maybe INR 100 crores, INR 120 crores goes like this, we come on this year.
Interesting. That's helpful. Just one question more on the -- this is my question. The second question is, sir, that within the inventory, we had this number of scrap that was building up. If you could guide on that also, what steps are we taking to reduce that, sir.
As I told you that when we are producing VSSC, HSFC products, where we have high margins. These products normally, rejections will also will be there. So definitely, scrap inventory will also go up. Once now VSSC has denied [indiscernible] MIDHANI, the 80% of the scrap outside can use in their product. Once they use, definitely the scrap quantity also will come down. If you see the scrap value also has gone up because recently, all raw material prices have gone up, normally, we value scrap only to the extent of the content of the -- in the product, whatever is the material content is there, like moly, nickel or other products or whatever to the extent only, we will take with 90% recovery rate. So but the prices have gone up last year, '20 to '23. That's why the scrap value appearing more. But this year, we are going to use the scrap. So it will come down.
[Operator Instructions] Next question is from the line of Anuj Kapil from Taurus Mutual Fund.
Yes. Sir, I just wanted to know that how much amount we are expecting from government spending on indigenous defense orders over the period of, like say, next 3 to 4 years?
Government spending today, last year, if you see almost around INR 1,00,000 crores, they are given to the CapEx for antennas industry. And this year also, you can say that will be on the growth will be not less than 10% to 20% easily. So I see that antennas requirement of the materials or the equipments are going to increase in the future more and more. And not only MIDHANI, many other industries will get benefit because of this.
Okay. And sir, my second question, you are focusing on the export as well. So how much percentage you are seeking like it will be increased by end of FY '24 in export segment?
We are targeting 10% of our sales on the export, 10%.
There will be increment increase in the 10% sales in the sales by 10%.
Sales, whatever we do on that 10%. So last year, if you will, our export was not so high it was low only, it's almost cost around INR 35 crores.
'21, '22 [indiscernible]
But '21, '22, it was almost 10%. So we -- this year also, we are targeting that we should go to the level of 10%. So it will be around INR 100 crores.
[Operator Instructions] Next question is from the line of Viraj Mithani from Jupiter Financial.
Sir, I would like to understand with all these new initiatives coming on stream, what would be over like top line growth and the bottom line growth would be some ballpark figure or some guidance on that?
Top line, almost you say around 20% growth is expected.
That is from the next coming year onwards, talking about...
Yes. Coming year onwards.
And the margins would be at the same level or would it be lesser than the last year.
[ Origin ], this market is very dynamic today. Specifically, our major input cost is coming from the raw material than the fuel and power. These 3 contents, if the prices are stable, then we have no issues. But what happens that initially, if you take order when the prices are low and individual prices goes up, we have no scope of getting that composition from the customer. So it is -- it may create some problem in the future. We have tried to, as I told in opening market itself, we try to offset this increase by doing certain operational efficiency. But there also, you have certain limitations. So we could manage through this year to make our EBITDA level same, but then it has to be see in the future, how to. And then you know that the finance cost also has gone up because of high interest rates, the lending rate is very high. So those things are affecting the -- definitely on the pressure is there on the profitability. Efficiency in all years differently are going to improve.
And sir, my second question is like I have been following this company since 2019. I fail to understand being such a unique company, we are not able to grow compared to our peers. Like probably we should be the best growing company. What is it? Is it the business model, lack of initiatives by the management, what is it that is entering the growth? If you can throw some light on that?
Yes, you have seen the growth is mainly -- see, we have a certain level of limitations on the base of our capacity. So now only the tool in the opening was this capacity, whatever we have invested the money, it has come to the operational now. So you'll certainly see the impact of those things in the coming years. So definitely, when a company is investing some CapEx, you will find that investment is there, but the output is not there. It will take time because of the defense items on whatever we produce. It takes time to get qualified. A lot of analysis very [indiscernible] even if I -- as I said in the export market also, when I'm sending a product to them, they will check for it rare applications, and they see that how it is performing. Then only they will approve you so that further business can be seen afterwards. So I expect that now these things are -- we have resolved many things that is going to give the output on the coming yes.
[Operator Instructions] Next question is from the line of [ Sherom Kapoor ] from [ Prabu Dhatli Ladar ].
Would you be -- a simple question. Could you give us the segmental split of revenue between your segments of defense, space, energy and the rest. And similarly, could you upscale the order inflow in FY '23?
Yes. In fact, for space, we have given almost 40% on splace. Then followed by defense has gone to 24%. And TSU includes, in fact, TSU also mainly in defense only, but there is around 21%. And other part is around 6% is balance both for the energy and [indiscernible]
So that being defense, actually, if we look at it is about 45%.
Yes, yes.
Okay. So that's 40% for space, 45% for defense and 6% for energy. I think that doesn't add up. Are we missing something that as up to 90, 91-odd percent on.
And 5% export, I have told the 5% export is there.
Sorry. Right, of course, and then exports. And could you give the same...
Amount we have put in the railways is very near, maybe coming to harden this time this year, also, we have started supplying excess. We have supplied 400 excess, we have supplied to railway for their new coaches are coming, type of cases are there for ICF and supplies.
Okay. Understood. And would you be able to give the similar...
Segment is also going to pick up in the future.
Okay. Okay. And would you be able to give the same mix for order inflows as you usually do in your annual report?
Order value. The order booking last year was [ 900-plus ].
No. I mean the order inflow by segment, defense space, energy, if you could give that split for...
Order [indiscernible]
Yes.
Order it also we have, I'll just see my exact figure, I will tell you...
[indiscernible]
We have -- defense has gone up -- we have 40% coming from the defense now order booking is there -- order position. Space is coming down. Space has become almost around 30%. And arrow, we are talking around also is the 10%, but arrow is we can say the defense only. So like then, we have the energy armor.
No, armor is going up.
Armor going up. So if I combine armor, navy that defense almost well, I can say, I can say 60%, we have 60%, 70% we have the defense.
Okay. So about 60% from defense, 30% from space.
We also, we have almost around 10%, not 10% will be there. Around 10% to 12% export also booking is there. Railway also, we have the booking of around 2% to 3%. So like that order distribution is there. As you now can that total order of volume map is changing now. And you see this can also coming in a different way in the future also.
Defense is increasing.
But also has a good visibility and you must today also, they have given our successful launch. So space is also going to pick up again because the launches are missing now.
Understood. Defense in space. So you see which are your 2 dominant segments, defense in space there's a good outlook in both, right? If you -- it's not that maybe only defense will be the driving factor going forward?
We have a good diversification. Now railway also we are trying to capture as much as possible, whatever we can do to as much depend our capacity -- possible energy sector also is a good possibility now because -- as I said, almost INR 125 crores order booking we are earned on energy out of INR 1,350, INR 125 crore of energy also. Energy includes our special grades, which have grown about C276.
The next question is from the line of Namrata, Individual Investor.
My first question is, what is the peak sales that we can achieve on our current asset base.
Maxim sales [indiscernible] Maxum sales, there's no limit I say. I'll not say a limit as some investors rightly told that the way it was supposed to grow, you are not growing. So the maximum limitations are there certain deficiency in our working infrastructure, already those things we have filled the gap now. So I'm sure that those things will increase as I told earlier also, we are expecting the growth of not less than 20% in the future. But as you have told that number of figures, let's see, we'll be reporting as and when the figures are coming, improving will be reporting investors.
Okay. My second question was, are we looking at any other products as a new product going forward?
Yes. This year, one, we have made a place of widest mill already we have made, we are also with the pipe. So we have done the pipe by exclusion. It was not there in the MIDHANI earlier. So this also we have installed on equipment, that equipment technology has been established now, so already INR 5 crores business we have done last year from there, and we have a good amount of orders coming from there also on that facility. So you will see that those things will be picking up in production and excellence we have made for the railways. So that excess also last was only INR 400 now we have the order of as soon in -- so already 1,500 orders already we have in our hand now for excels.
[indiscernible] opportunity [indiscernible] 540.
So [indiscernible] Corporation of India has given that this thing I'll ask my Director process marketing to advise you on this -- on the new.
As increase in the requirement of the axles. Now this container, they are given a trial out of [ 540 ] numbers. and on successful completion within 2 months, they are going to be tender for another 20,000 numbers. And this railways also now we are having about 1,000 numbers for going. And on completion of that, there is going to be a term also. That also we are upgrading our equipment, and we have put our CMC led 2 missions we have brought, which is only about INR 10 crores, and we are installing and this will enhance our productivity so that we can supply it sat kind of time. Apart from that, other equipments already CMD has briefed that we made an wins. That is going to help in a long way. to give this grade to have fix, which is being imported to the tune of about INR 350 crores to INR 400 crores. So that will become 100% indigenous and we'll be only [ 40 ] to be able to supply mainly for the energy sector. So otherwise, there is going to be a good figure. So only we have to augment our equipment supporting the equipment and the supply material.
Next question is from the line of Viraj Mithani from Jupiter Financial.
Any update Nalco JV which we're planning. Any update on the Nalco Jaivy
Yes. One update is that whatever Nalco JV, we have decided to put there -- we have seen that recently, we have appointed a consultant since we wanted to go for taking the money for the project. So for that, we wanted to make a bankable reports using that -- one of the consultants. But to our surprise, the consultant has given the requirement of product which you wanted to plan in that facility is very less in the country. So earlier report, the projections were very high, that projections are not reaching event to the so that whatever we wanted to make there. So considering that, we are rethinking that whether we should go to that scale or that correct or not. So we have not -- we are still under the analysis only. But meanwhile, your company is having a lot of other opportunity where moment I invest my money I can guess the output and market is available. As I told, the export market today is very, very much. In fact, many export orders, we are not booking today because their delivery time is very less and they want the product of the different type of -- where we need the additional entity we have to put in our plan. So -- we want to improve our infrastructure to build those requirements. So there only our focus is there, how we can quickly make our products in large volume to meet the requirement of overseas customers, which includes in the area of aerospace and oil and gas and other commercial applications.
And so what would be the CapEx figures for the years to come negative 2, 3 years? Will there be any significant CapEx or in OpEx.
We have -- we are now focusing on that whatever CapEx we have invested. We want to take the output from there. But nevertheless, the CapEx is not were stopping here. In fact, this year also -- last year also, we have almost spent around INR 70 crores.
INR 76 crores.
INR 76 crores already we have spent on CapEX. And this year also, we are targeting on a similar on the line, single level, so around INR 100 crores.
Initial of major CapEx, but CapEx we have invested so far for any additional facilities required, where we are concentrating, yes.
Vaning our capacities modernizing our areas where the equipments are very old and see that we can meet the requirement of international customers and increase our volume.
So we have sufficient capacity for the new initiatives to take care of the -- is that tru to think?
Yes, yes, yes.
The next question is from the line of Rohit Ohri from Progressive Shares.
Sir, congrats being a part of [ GSL ], we launched [ F12 ] and [ NVS01 ] Sir my question is any of our orders from [ inflow ] related to the same? Or how is it [ associating guides ].
Yes, yes. So already the 5 TSL, which they have outsourced given to the private firms, there already, we are in the process, and I am expecting at any time this order will come. So already that by -- we are going to supply. This is coming in a new order.
INR 100 crores.
INR 100 crores order we are going to get from our L&T is a supplier in that -- so it is not that only it is coming from VSS. Now it has gone to the private form also. So -- with the success of the different launches by So, I think that this is going to pick up coming in the deep place.
Sir, you did mention about Hast Alloy and the opportunities with probably L&T rail and others. Sir, if you can put some number to that, that what sort of opportunity can we see from this initiative in the next 2 years or 3 years?
How much we have put.
We have put 150 tonnes.
Already, we have booked the order.
200 tonnes.
Of around 200 tonnes, coming to around INR 80 crores, INR 100 crores already we are having. Or another tender is coming now. I am expecting that this year, it will be around INR 200 crores order will be booking.
Okay. So sir, this INR 200 crores plus INR 100 crores is in addition to the already existing INR 1,300 crores that we had on...
Yes, yes. In fact, we have -- today, we have already priced INR 550 crores I am expecting in this quarter only.
Okay. Okay. And this also includes the axle, which might come from the requirement of the government and maybe for one day...
Many things are from the government, from defense, from missile, a lot of our strategic sector, strategic government sector that is coming from franchise.
So my last question is related to the line requirement and the request that we were putting in for Agi Bata. Sir, any improvement on that or any positivity shown by the environment over there?
Agi Batla, we have not requested for land. So already, we have our land in Hyderabad already, we have the land enough in our Kanchan Bagh area and that land itself today is very, very costly. In fact, much higher than whatever [ Agi Vatla ] land is there. And we are also very close we are partners. So this part is why is it go and make it sorry, separate facility there.
Okay. My thought process is that you wanted to come more closer to the aerospace, via partner. That's why I asked the question.
We are very close to aerospace, in fact, we are already in trying to discuss on the Tata Boeing to how can we meet the requirements of certain special alloys and all so discussing with them. we are interested to participate in that. We are also thinking that how we can enter in the supply chain of the sacrum. So these are all in the line now we are trying to because if you enter in the supply chain, you have to first get it approved against the international suppliers. It's not the Indian because nobody is a material supply is only for the international source for them today. So anything we are going to have is we have to compete with the international suppliers. And they will also qualify this on their performance. So we are already talking to them.
Okay. So this INR 1,300 crores order book, if I was to break it in 2 parts, one 1 is short cycle and one is long-cycle short being less than 6 months and long been less than a year. So what is the issue in that short cycle versus long cycle?
I think the majority 90% in the short only. Now we have one on the short cycle hardly that space is also not a very long cycles. We have to complete already we are delayed within money year we have to finish.
The next question is from the line of [ Tuanil ] from [ Hinhlach ].
Can you throw some light on debt? Where do you see the debt at the end of this year? And when do you expect it to go to '19 '20 numbers?
Your voice is very feeble. Can you just increase your vice and repeat the question, please?
Yes. you hear me now, sir?
Yes, yes.
Yes. Can you throw some light on the net? Where do you see our debt at the end of this year? And when can we see some hundred levels?
Yes. We have -- debt cost is not very high. In fact, INR 100 crores, we have begun for the CapEx for our capital requirement. Balance, we have the money for -- we have taken for the working capital. So that now we are going to -- it will be there. But it will be going up and down, but we cannot -- we are not getting any advance any money there so that Normally, if you see other defense companies you compare, they will get always surplus because they get the advance from the big ticket projects. The projects will be there for 5 years. But they will get the advance now itself. That is a defense there.
And to your question, further too, this INR 300 crores working capital that is there of the inventory and other things, our receivables. Once we get the order, the INR 300 crores, we will maintain our first same one. But coming to INR 100 crores long term there, this year repayment starts every year, INR 20 crores we will pay. So slowly down the line, this INR 100 crores will be repaid. And we are always planning to meet our CapEx requirements to those things from internal generationally.
The next question is from the line of Mr. Amit Dikshit from ICICI Securities Limited.
I have 3 or 4 questions. The first one is, in this quarter, we saw that raw material as a percentage of BOP shorter. Now what are the key drivers for that? Was it molybdenum price? And where do we expect it to settle out in this quarter because raw material prices seem to have stabilized at least as of now.
I think if I -- we have asked me that it was seen raw metal price has been [ stabalized ] right now.
So what would be the sustainable raw material cost as a percentage of BOP? And then is there a number you can give us.
Raw material cost, we have total around.
40%. 40% is the raw material cost overall quarter-to-quarter, why it will change See, sometimes when we produce the material for our strategic customers, where we use virgin metals more -- then my rail consumption will be more -- when I use for other customers, if I use, then I use more scrap, the bankers, then my raw material in will be less. Legacy will change. More always, it will be around 35% to -- sometimes it will go to 40% depending upon the product, which are manufactured. Coming to your next potion moly and other prices. So initially due to Russia, Ukraine, the prices have gone up. And some time, namely an normally, we buy for our 1-year equipment, seeing the price trend. Recently, moly prices have gone up. When it has gone up, we have taken a decision that we should not pay full requirement of the year. So we have purchased only emergency basic requirement to not to stop the production. But subsequently, if you see recently the moly prices have come down nearly 40%. So it is given an advantage by not booking the player on that. I could save some 40% of costs now I'll place the new order I tell the price per kg, it is earlier it is INR 9,000. Now it has come down to around INR 5,000, which sold be nearly INR 4,000 truncating -- in the same way, some other materials also the little, very well, nickel has gone up to $100 per kg. Now earlier this, it is only around $17 to $18. Now it stabilizing at $22 , that's why if you see my inventory -- raw material inventory also last year, I have an inventory, which could say MIDHANI, even the price increase there didn't venture into the market. But now the price is stabilizing at $2 -- now I'm buying Nikhil for my requirement. -- amassing other materials rose only issue scanner, which we are also sourcing slowly. If you see my inventory level -- now it is in the range of INR 100 crores. Hope I have clarified you.
Yes, yes, so this has for the detailed explanation. The second question is on the scrap you said in this particular quarter, Q4.
Scrap [ usage ] Scrap uage has been very high. In fact, if you see in terms of tonnage, it is almost double from previous year. And the saving is almost 60% of scrap in the quarter 4. Last part, if you compare the last year, it was 40%.
Beginning of the year, if you see our craft was only 40%. quarters wise it has gone slowly up at the end of the fourth quarter, we have used this 60% to virgin 40% begin. So we started using identifying usage of scrap and we started seeing more of scrap
The scrap management team has done a very good job, and it is already -- this is a total achievement of our operational team. They have done a very good job by optimizing this because you know our scrap purity of the material is very important. And we are not using only 1 grade 2 grids. We are getting more than 100 grids -- so managing the all grade scrap and then without mixing is a big challenge. So that has been done by our team and that's why we -- as we have told you, our scrap consension has gone up.
Great, sir. In your opening remarks, you mentioned about some of the good opportunities [indiscernible] and Wide Plate Mill And we actually expect it to obtain around INR 500 crores of revenue in a steady state from both these facilities individual -- now for FY '24, how much revenue can we expect from both the activities?
Yes. Together, it may be similar to that.
So similar to -- I mean, INR 500 crores put together. Rohtak...
See, it is nearly because we have many things have to still get systemized. -- because 1 grade is there, which is already we have done. But if you see that whatever we are doing margin still will go up. So it will go into that into that.
Okay. Sir, 1 last question, if I can squeeze in. What is the order inflow we are looking in FY '24? Somebody asked about FY '23, of course, but in FY '24, what kind of order in we are looking -- and from what platforms we are looking at this particular or?
There are many things under the pipeline. One is that you must have seen the is also our requirements have gone up. So I'm expecting that we'll get from the missile sector also. We are expecting, as I said about the space also, we are expecting and defense also -- in fact, this quarter on that quarter 1 this year, first quarter itself, I am trying to see -- I'm seeing that we can book the order of around INR 500 crores. So we'll see as we proven quarter 2, quarter 3, but all orders which is coming now, we ought to execute very fast. We are also seeing now the export inquiry of around inquiry work is there, spending with us, and we have to see that how quickly we can dispose that. So orders is not the issue, how quickly we can execute and give to the customer. This is the challenge because now it is if you're going to the segment where it is not a long-term project, we have to supply that material in a very short time. People are not willing to block their money in the raw material. So it is -- the turnaround time is very less. We have improved in many areas in that side also. And there are certain examples where we have completed the orders, we have received the order and we have done the melting processing. In 2 months, 3 months also, we have supplied. So those things are there in that.
Ladies and gentlemen, due to time constrain, this was the last question. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Amit Dikshit for the closing comments.
Yes. Thank everyone for taking this call. And with and Dr. Jha the questions very patiently. Sir, if there is any closing remarks that you would like to make before we close the call?
First of all, I am very thankful to all the investors for their active participation and keeping very close watch in the performance of our company. Believe me, your -- this type of involvement is also making us to drive and strive for the excellence. But as you know, defense, we have certain we call 1 more presence. So you people are getting questions. And definitely, I can tell you on the behalf of the management, we are not going to disappoint you. Many technological development what we have done this year I feel very proud of that. Very difficult to mention at this junction or everything. But many -- whatever we have mentioned so far is going to give a lot of I think advantage in the future, as I talked about the development of access for the railway development of the materials for energy sector C276 development of the alloys for export. So there are many, many first are there in this year. So probably those things are definitely a strength for the company.
And I am sure that the current scenario in the world where the scarcity of the raw material because the many raw material suppliers who are leading suppliers, their capacities are not running at the full scale. And that is where MIDHANI has a great potential. In fact, we have done a market survey in the different countries, and we can find that many things where we can capture in the export area. So you'll find that your company will be moving towards aerospace and export in a big way in the coming future. And many projects which is going to be announced or given -- many things we cannot also tell in the open platform because our certain projects are very cigarette in nature. But we are very much in that and their development, their work also increasing now. So you'll find that -- I'm not able to give you the what are the grids and all. But in terms of the volume, it will go up our order book addition -- so once again, I thank you all and also by all Board of Directors were particular with me. and along with the company selector making this conference call possible today. Thank you.
Thank you. On behalf of ICICI Securities, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.