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Lumax AutoTechnologies Ltd
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Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Lumax Auto Technologies Limited Q3 and 9 Months FY '22 Earnings Conference Call. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on the belief, opinions and expectations of the company as on date of this call. These statements are not the guarantees of future performance and involve risk and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Anmol Jain, Managing Director, Lumax Auto Technologies Limited. Thank you, and over to you, Mr. Jain.
Thank you. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. A very warm welcome to Q3 and 9 months FY '22 Earnings Call of Lumax Auto Technologies Limited. I hope you all are safe and healthy. Along with me on this call, I have Mr. Deepak Jain, Director; Mr. Sanjay Mehta, Director and Group CFO; Mr. Vikas Marwah, CEO; Mr. Naval Khanna, Executive Director, Lumax Management Services; Mr. Ashish Dubey, CFO; Mr. Ankit Thakral from the Finance team; Ms. Priyanka Sharma, Head, Corporate Communications; and SGA, our Investor Relations adviser. The results and presentations are uploaded on the stock exchange and the company website. I hope everybody has had a chance to look at it. Moving on to the key industry highlights of the quarter. Global semiconductor shortage continued to drive down OEMs production. In Q3 FY '22, many OEMs have reported a decline in sales with respect to the Q3 of the previous year. Supply chain issues are gradually getting eased out while the underlying demand drivers still remain intact. Our sales have reported a growth of 17% in the current quarter from Q3 FY '21 due to our diversified product portfolio and strong aftermarket growth. The company has also been able to post historic high sales for 2 successive quarters. As for the data published by [ CM ], the overall industry production in the third quarter of FY '22 was down by 20% from Q3 of FY '21, owing to the degrowth of both passenger vehicles and 2-wheeler segment by 12% and 23%, respectively, whereas the production of commercial vehicles and 3-wheelers remained flat. The massive pace at which technological progress is happening in the auto industry, greater impetus on localization through PLI scheme gives incredible opportunities to your company to move ahead in this journey. With our diverse JV partners, we continue to drive innovation across our product lines. We appreciate and thank the government for introducing the PLI scheme for auto and auto component players. We are happy to announce that Lumax Auto Technologies has applied for production-linked incentive scheme in collaboration with our various joint venture partners. Speaking about the union budget, we welcome the measures taken by the government. It is a growth-oriented budget, focusing on building long-term strength using investment as the growth driver while maintaining policy stability and inclusivity. Steel price cooling-off measures will help the entire manufacturing sector. Similar to charging infrastructure and energy storage systems, along with government support in R&D for clean energy, green mobility and semiconductors will help the auto sector immensely. Let me now take you through the performance of each business entity. The stand-alone entity caters to integrated plastic modules, aftermarket business, chassis and swing arms for 2-wheelers, trailing arms for 3-wheeler under the Metallics business and 2-wheeler lighting. The stand-alone entity has contributed 78% of the total consolidated revenues for the 9 months FY '22. Lumax Mannoh Allied Technologies, a 55% subsidiary, which manufactures manual, AMT and automatic gear shift systems and has the market leadership position contributed 13% to the total consolidated revenue. The company has successfully started export of made in India automatic gear shifter for a global platform since the last 2 quarters. Going ahead, we are working closely with our JV partner for a wider outreach globally. Lumax Cornaglia Auto Technologies, a 50% subsidiary, manufacturing air intake systems and urea tanks commanding 100% share of business with Volkswagen and Tata Motors contributed 6% to its consolidated -- to the consolidated revenues. This joint venture holds a strong order book and shall increase its contribution in the next year. Lumax Metallics Private Limited, the 100% subsidiary manufacturing seat frame, contributed 2% to the total consolidated revenues. The Board of Directors have approved its merger with the company for efficient utilization and synergy of resources. The appointed date of merger will be April 1, 2022, subject to necessary regulatory approvals. On Lumax FAE Technologies, I'm very glad to announce that the company has received LOI from 2 major OEMs for oxygen sensors, SOP of which is expected in FY '23. The annual revenues of these LOIs would be more than INR 100 crores annually. Lumax Jopp Allied Technologies is a 50% subsidiary engaged in the design development and manufacturing of gear shift towers, automated manual transmission kits, all gear sensors and forks. The production has started to pick up as per the OEM schedules. Lumax Ituran is a 50% joint venture with Ituran telematics of Israel. Subsequent to quarter ended December 31, 2021, the joint venture company has become a subsidiary of the company in accordance with Ind AS 110 consolidated financial statement with effect from January 1, 2022. Going forward from Q4 FY '22, its revenue and profitability will be included in the consolidated financials. Lumax Alps Alpine India Private Limited, a 50% subsidiary for the manufacturing and sale of electric devices and components, including software related to the automotive industry, has started its commercial production at Gurugram, Haryana during the quarter with effect from December 1, 2021. The single month revenue of the JV is INR 1.7 crores and estimated revenue for the current full year is at INR 8 crores. These partnerships with global leaders are strengthening our core businesses and enhancing our diversified product offering by leveraging global technologies. The company is well positioned today. We have best combination of new products as well as an expanding wallet share with the current product line. All this is to serve the customers' expectations and stay on track to reach our goal to multi-power the revenue trajectory. I'm happy to share some details on the new launches made during the quarter, having your company's products. In the passenger vehicle segment, we launched the gear shifter systems for Maruti's new Celerio model and plastic pipes for the new Kia Carens model. And on the 2-wheeler segment, we launched the air intake system for the Scrambler and Adventure models of Yezdi under the Mahindra & Mahindra umbrella. Now I would like to hand it over to Mr. Sanjay Mehta, Director and Group CFO, to update you on the operational and financial performance of the company.
Good morning, everyone. I will brief on the operation and financial performance for Q3 and 9 months ended FY '22. For 9-month FY '22, Integrated Plastic Modules contributed 25% to overall revenue, followed by Aftermarket at 19%; Chassis at 18%; Gear Shifter at 13%; Lighting product at 12%; and Emission at 6% and Others 7%. Two- and three- wheelers contributed 46% to overall revenue; Passenger Car at 19%; Aftermarket at 19%; and CVs at 9%. With respect to financial highlights, the consolidated revenue stood at INR 428 crores for Q3 as against INR 365 crores last year's Q3, up by 17% against industry downfall of 20%. This is due to increased sales in almost all the volumes, coupled with the excellent growth in Aftermarket division. This increase is also aided by price correction of earlier quarters from OEMs amounting to INR 18 crores, which is added both in revenue and raw material consumption as per normal [ fresh ] sales, thus the comparable revenue for Q3 is INR 410 crores, up by 12% from Q3 FY '21. For 9 months, the company reported revenue of INR 1,900 -- hello?[Technical Difficulty]
You're audible, sir.
Yes. I'm audible?
Yes, sir. You are.
So for 9 months, the company reported revenue of INR 1,091 crores against INR 720 crores during the same period last year, up by 52%. The company reported consolidated EBITDA of INR 48 crores in Q3 as against INR 43 crores in Q3 of last year. EBITDA margins stand at 11.2% for Q3 FY '22 as against 11.7% for Q3 FY '21. The comparable EBITDA, excluding price correction of earlier quarters for Q3, turns out at 11.7%, which is in line with Q3 FY '21. For 9 months, EBITDA is INR 114 crores, 10.5% as against INR 67 crores at 9.3% in 9 months FY '21, up by 120 basis points. Profit after tax after minority interest stood at INR 22 crores in Q3 against INR 23 crores in Q3 last year. For 9 months, it stood at INR 48 crores as against INR 26 crores at 9 months FY '21. The CapEx incurred during the 9 months is INR 39 crores, including INR 15 crores on account of right-to-use assets. Thus, the actual CapEx outlay is INR 24 crores. For the full year, the CapEx is estimated to be in the range of INR 45 crores to INR 50 crores, excluding the right-to-use assets mentioned earlier. Now we open the floor for questions.
[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Abhishek Jain from Dolat Capital.
Congrats for strong set of numbers in a tough time. Sir, we have seen sharp jump in sheet metal business. As you mentioned earlier that you have won several business in the system and KTM as well. But if you see the numbers of the most of the auto companies, they are looking at half jumps in this business. Is it because of the increase in the realization because of the commodity inflation or some structural changes is coming? I mean more localization is happening as all Indian companies are winning more business.
Abhishek, if I could understand correctly, your question is on the mechanic fabrication business and you're saying that it had -- it has been a strong growth on a year-on-year basis? And what is the reason for that growth?
Yes, sir. As you mentioned earlier also that the reason is because of that you won the new business from the speed train and KTM. But I wanted to know is there any structural changes is coming in the industry that's why Indian companies are winning more business because most of the auto components are showing a very strong number in sheet metal part.
Okay. So our sheet metal presence is largely on Bajaj Auto. And as I had mentioned earlier that we have gained significant wallet share, expanding our product presence in the chassis category, not just on the export model, which were the ones we used to cater before, but also getting into the premium bike space of the KTM. And going forward, we are in discussions with Bajaj to also service certain other platforms of them. So for us, this growth is purely based on the wallet share of Bajaj Auto. And we see that we are now a very strong supply chain partner of Bajaj for their sheet metal and chassis business, and that will definitely continue to build upon.
In sheet metal business we started supply to the Chetak as well?
Not yet. We have not started any supplies of any parts to the Chetak yet, but we are in discussions with the company for maybe expanding our presence in the Chetak platform going forward.
Okay. The next question is related with the plastic molded parts as you have started to supply in the four-wheeler space and you won the business from the MSI Honda and Kia. So what is the outlook for this business in the four-wheeler side, especially in the plastic molded part?
So as I had mentioned earlier, I think strategically, plastics as a domain continues to be of significant importance to the company. I think we have already made some good inroads in the two-wheeler plastic business, be it for Bajaj or even for Honda. And we have made some entry into the four-wheeler through the Koreans and also Maruti Suzuki. Clearly, over the next 2 to 3 years, our strategy would be to expand our presence in the four-wheeler plastic space and also go from regular plastic products to more value-added technological kinematic parts, which will also enhance the realization for vehicle. So clearly, four-wheeler plastics continues to be an important strategic growth driver for the company in the coming years.
So what is the revenue contribution from the four-wheeler plastic molded part right now as you have started supply to MSI?
So out of the totality of the Plastic business, roughly about 10% of it would be coming from the four-wheeler space. 90% of it is still from the two-wheeler space. But we do expect this to constantly keep expanding on the four-wheeler front.
So what mix we can expect in FY '23 four-wheeler versus two-wheelers in the plastic molded part?
It's difficult to predict or give you an estimate right now because these plastic parts do not have a significant lead time of development. But in FY '23, I would think that from -- it should go at least by double. So instead of 10% contribution, it should at least go upward of 20% of the total plastic part.
Great, sir. And sir, despite semiconductor shortage, we have seen a sharp jump in the Gear Shifter business. Is it because of the incremental revenue from the export to Honda? Or because of increase in realization because increasing share of the [ SUVs ], which led to the higher demand of the MT and AT?
No. So there have been significant reasons. I think semiconductor is an ongoing challenge across the industry. But I think our growth of gear shifters on a year-on-year basis is not significantly because of exports. It is largely because of a higher penetration and also adding new customers like in the commercial vehicle segment and also expanding our offtake with Mahindra & Mahindra. And we've also increased our share of business in Maruti Suzuki and Tata Motors, and we all know Tata Motors has reported a very strong set of production numbers despite the semiconductor issue. So all in all, we have definitely gained and continue to be the market leader.
So in the last 9 months, how was the revenue contribution from the MT and AT side?
So about 80% is still MT and about 20% would be a combination of automatic and AMT.
Okay, sir. And sir, as the share of the SUVs are going up, don't you think that it will go up significantly around 40%, 50% in the coming years?
Yes. We do expect that by FY '25 we will take in 2 to 3 years, the portion of AT and AMT should be at least about 40% to 50% of the total pie because we also understand that the realization for vehicle of AT is much more than that of an MT. So maybe not number-wise, but value-wise, sure it would be 40% to 50%.
Okay, sir. And sir, you are looking up great opportunity in the electronics and telematics products. So -- and you have -- you are looking to establish the production from -- through your JV as well from this quarter. So from FY '23, what numbers we can expect on the JV side, specifically for telematics and electronic or sensors?
So the JV with Alpine, we have already started production. And obviously, this year, we will only get about 1 quarter revenue. But next year, we do expect that we should be doing about INR 30 crores to INR 40 crores of revenue of this JV. And again, we are in the discussions with key OEMs for significant order wins, which will probably come into production in FY '24 onwards. And from there, we do expect a significant scale-up of this joint venture on the electronic products.
And what would be the break-even point from this JV in the revenue term?
I think by next year end we should have [ product ] stability of -- but I think we will take around INR 40 crores or so should be the breakeven -- net break-even point. Obviously, we will be a cash breakeven at a much lower revenue as well.
Okay. My last question is related with the new order book size. So what is the current new order book size? And out of that, how much is the replacement?
As I had mentioned earlier, the order book, which I had mentioned last time stood at approximately INR 450 crores, which included almost INR 330 crores of new orders and about INR 110 crores of replacement. Out of which I would say in the current year, we've already done about INR 120 crores to INR 150 crores out of the INR 450 crores and the remaining would come in FY '23 and some would peak in FY '24.
And how much is from the EV side out of that -- these new orders for [ electronic ]?
EV right now is insignificant. But over the next 3 years, we expect perhaps roughly around 5% of our total revenue should come from the EV pie. And largely, that would be driven by the electronics JV of Alpine and also the gear shifter.
Okay. And this is because of supply into the BMS, all these sensors?
Well, it will eventually make a part of PLI as well. Our applications, as I mentioned, incorporates all the JVs as well. But yes, some of these products will come under the PLI.
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from line of [ Akshay Jain from Jain Capital ].
Firstly, I wanted to just continue on the Lumax Alps Alpine. So are we replacing any of the competitor here? Or is the order only for new models?
We will be not replacing a competitor, but we will definitely be eating into the competition's wallet share. Please understand, Alpine already has an existing infrastructure and market presence in India with a running business with some of the OEMs in India. The company has taken a position in that entity by itself to form this JV. So it is not a ground zero start-up. We already have a revenue stream, which we have gotten into and now we will try to get some new orders and scale it up. So answering to your question, it's not replacing a competition, but it is definitely penetrating into the wallet share of the competition across the different OEMs.
Got it. So what are the margins on this product as compared to our other business verticals?
I'll let Vikas take that.
So on the [indiscernible] level, plus there's a market opportunity for new age in production, which would be regulation driven like steering angle sensor and other products where the budget could be a little higher also. Coming back again to the question you asked, which, Mr. Mol Jain answered, we are very well placed with the dominant competition being only one player in most of the product segments. So there is a market opportunity to scale up to even 50% of total market potential in India on the products with Alps Alpine.
Just to supplement that, as I had mentioned, I think the products of Alps Alpine are technologically advanced and we see a very limited number of suppliers present in India for these products. And hence, we feel that with Lumax and Alps Alpine joining hands, we should be able to significantly take a piece of this pie and get a sizable market share for these products in India. On the margin front, I've always maintained that, going forward, our endeavor would be continue to get into product line where the margins continue to be in the double-digit space. That has always been the endeavor of the company in order to expand the margins.
Lastly, can you discuss in detail the merger of Lumax Metallics. So what kind of synergies are we expecting from the same?
Lumax Auto Tech, I mean the stand-alone company is having a chassis and swing arm and the trailing arm business, which is similar to what we are doing in the Metallic business seat frame. So after merger, besides the taxation benefits, a lot of fixed cost advantages there besides similar product line.
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of [ Neha Parekh from Rama Securities ].
Firstly, congratulations on the good set of numbers. I had a few questions like as -- it is mentioned a bit earlier that the quarter was quite challenging. Sir, which factors had helped us in booking like a good revenue? And secondly, sir, on your product side, like the other than the shifter has shown good growth. So can you discuss more in detail about other business and other factors, which are growth driven for the quarter?
Thank you, [ Neha ]. I think first and foremost, I would say that our diversification in the products and OEM is one of the key reasons why we are able to insulate the market dynamics completely. I think if you look at the Q3 on a year-on-year basis, obviously, the company has grown by 17% in revenue whereas the industry performance is very, very different. And again, as I had mentioned, this is a combination of getting into scaling up of certain new product lines and JVs, which we had recently gotten into, also expanding our wallet share of the current product line. So if you look at my quarter 3 performance by itself, pretty much across product lines, whether it's Plastics or it is the Metallic or even Aftermarket, I have had a very significant growth across different product lines, much higher than my principal OEM customer growth in those product lines. So that, I would say, is largely one of the reasons why we've been able to have a good revenue run. And in terms of the margins that you mentioned, I think we are very clear that our efficiencies are driving -- I mean, we are obviously driving better efficiencies across product lines. The incremental revenue always adds to the incremental contribution. And for the specific product lines like the Emission, we've been able to also expand margins based on certain cost rationalization measures. So it's a culmination of all of these. Aftermarket, as I said, if you look at the 9 months, Aftermarket has grown more than 50%, which is a very strong growth. And Aftermarket does garner a better margin compared to some of the OEM businesses as well.
Okay, sir. Sir, secondly, my question is, sir, how do you see the demand scenario for Q4 and going forward? Like from which segment are we experiencing higher demand?
So if I were to look at the overall demand, I think certain challenges like the semiconductor will surely continue even though the supply chain and the availability of semiconductors have definitely eased out based on whatever the inventory levels are there in the system. I do believe that passenger car will continue to outperform the other segments. Passenger car will still have a strong growth in Q4 and also spilling over to the next financial year. I think two-wheeler as an entire segment will probably continue to be under pressure. But I'm happy to share that because of a significant presence of your company in Bajaj Auto and Bajaj Auto's significant presence and dependability on the export insulate us from these two-wheeler challenges as well because Bajaj also has done fairly well despite the domestic challenges because of their export commitments and export volumes. So these are the 2 segments, which obviously contribute significantly to the company. Commercial vehicle also is not a significant contributor, but we do expect that in quarter 4, overall, the performance would be much better than quarter 3 at an industry level.
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line Apurva Mehta from A M Investments.
Yes. Congratulations on excellent numbers. Sir, I just wanted to know your outlook for the auto industry for FY '23. And how do you look post this whether you see some easing of semiconductor? What is your outlook and where our company would stand in this in challenging scenario?
Apurva, I'll let Mr. Deepak Jain answer that. He has a deep knowledge of the industry. So I'll let him answer that.
Apurva, Deepak Jain here. So I think a difficult question given the current scenario because we had predicted in FY '22 or '21 is probably wrong. I hope our predictions for the industry don't go wrong this time. Definitely, the industry is looking at -- let me first put, it better quarter-on-quarter performance. As Mol has just mentioned, Q4 would be better than Q3. It has multiple factors to be done. Number one, obviously, the economy as far as the macro factors are concerned is starting to gear up. But you see as a long-term vision of the government, they want to actually invest. They want to actually put in, into the infrastructure and this will all help the mobility. We should also get a lot more benefits from an industry point of view because of the, I would say, customer as well as the government's intent to do more exports. And also these PLIs would help in further driving the localization ecosystem. Overall, I think FY '24, I mean, so we would -- or '23, we expect actually a double-digit growth, which would, for certain segments may even come close to the FY '18 kind of performance. Also, I think we're pretty bullish that with the regulations coming in, in '24, there would be good opportunities to develop and probably further add value products and actually get more value additions on it. Challenges still remain would be 2 fronts. I think semiconductors, although I think the industry has grappled with it and also managed the way we are able to procure stock as well as change some sources, there is actually a lot of confidence that going into FY '23 we probably would have a much better handle on semiconductor issues. However, I think the only challenge, which we foresee is actually how the commodity prices will be hit because that is actually inclusive of various factors. It's not anymore just inflation. It is actually hyperinflation. Government and industries are in discussions with how to actually control the prices. But I think you've seen a lot more passing on of basically prices to the end consumer, and that does affect the affordability. And the last challenge, which we foresee is also the regulations kicking in. We have seen certain policymakers announcing very, very strong, I would say, safety and emission measures and also are -- probably also alternate fuel measures. All this coming in would obviously enhance and increase the prices of the vehicles. However, at the component level, it gives us an opportunity to actually further participate in this. So definitely, I think Q4 short term, we can definitely see a better visibility and we see a better performance coming in as Q3 for the company. But I think next year also, we are pretty much bullish that we would probably kind of get into a double-digit growth.
Great. Great to hear further. Sir, on new order from this oxygen sensor, when it will start generating revenue for us? So this will be next year or post next year?
So in FY '23, more like third quarter onwards, we should start. I mean currently also we are generating revenue. It is not that we're not generating revenue as on today. But the significant change because of these LOIs will start kicking in from Q3 of FY '23.
Primarily, if you see the -- we had actually formulated this joint venture primarily to get into the whole BS-IV to BS-VI transition, where in BS-VI implementation, you would need oxygen sensors for two-wheelers. Obviously, due to corona, due to multiple reasons, we could not take it off. But at least the last 2 years, we've actually tried to actually get and do a lot of marketing with our customers. And now with the OBD II coming in, which actually makes mandatory 2 oxygen sensors in the two-wheelers coming in from '24, we have secured at least about the order books and hopefully we would be getting about 75% or 80% booked installed capacities on these LOIs. Hopefully, we will expand it further. But I think our first step is to basically convert all the installed capacity into orders. And as Mol said, it could start from H2 for preparation of basically the OBD-II launch.
Okay. And any development on the Ituran side, any orders or any significant amount of development coming?
So we had mentioned earlier that we have a very strong order book from 1 customer, which is Daimler. We have -- that's the first fixed order win for the company. And since Daimler discussions are ongoing, we have also been able to expand our relationship into new segments of Daimler. So what we had -- one was on the truck division for Daimler, but now we are also in discussions for the bus division of Daimler. This order book by itself was about INR 30 to INR 40 crores, and we are now also talking to one more OEM with order book, which should get realized FY '24 onwards.
Okay, okay. And the kind of margins we should enjoy in this must be substantially higher because of this floor technology. Is our understanding right?
So Apurva, yes. Margins will be higher compared to some of our product lines, but again on margins, they are market dynamic-driven. But I always say that we -- our endeavor is that overall, as a company, we would like to inch forward towards the teen EBITDA, and hence, our endeavor would be all our product lines should be at least delivering give or take those EBITDA margins. But for this, it would be definitely slightly -- a shade better than what the other product lines are delivering today.
And on this Gear Shifter side, the order we won for the new Celerio, it is single source or we are -- what is our stance now it?
We are single source. In most of the models, we have a single source status across the many different platforms across OEMs. But this is a fully automatic gear shifter, which we are the only source for.
And what will be size of this order? I mean, just roughly, if we can for next year kind of think generating revenue for us.
So Gear Shifter as I had mentioned, the order book in totality for the Gear Shifters was roughly about INR 150 crores to INR 160 crores, which we saw, out of which INR 115 crores was new orders and about, give or take, INR 50 crores was replacement orders. Celerio as a product for us has always been our model. So for us, it qualifies under the replacement. And for this particular business, we are about close to INR 20 crores be the annual order value.
Okay. And working on the Alpine JV, we were going to have this contact coil and steering angle sensor, start/stop switches. So can we understand the size of this market, size of this product or something like that so we can just analyze it, how big the sizes are of any of these products, if you can?
So I'll just give a comment and then I'll let Vikas give you more details about this. I think, clearly, the product, which, as Alpine brings on the table, as I mentioned, are [ 8 ]technologically advanced products in the electronic space. Number two, as I mentioned, that some of them will be driven by regulation. For example, the clock spring. As airbag becomes mandatory, it will be pretty much a regulatory item. Also, certain other steering angle sensors will also form a part of the regulation. So we feel that the demand would be significantly driven by regulation. And also because of scarcity of existing players in this product category, most OEMs are looking at derisking as a strategy. And hence, the need for someone like Lumax Alps Alpine is high on their priority. So these would be on a strategic level, the 2 growth drivers for the JV, but I'll let Vikas give you more color on the size and the opportunity of this JV.
So we have entered a very exciting product segment to add to what Mr. Mol Jain just mentioned. A lot of these products, as had said, being regulated driven also like with the mandatory use of airbags, contact coils a deployment mechanism of the airbag becoming more critical. Steering angle sensor, again, becoming regulatory driven products. So FY '24 onwards, we see a combined market potential in power windows switches, contact coil and steering angle sensors to be upwards of INR 600 crores to INR 650 crores per annum on a 4 million kind of percentage of vehicle production forecast. Happy to say that there are going to be only 2 or 3 dominant competition here, who are currently operating at almost 70% or 75% share of the market. So this JV will be challenging their dominance and we'll be having a very, very good potential to bet upon.
Okay. And when can we start our -- we must be having -- starting the production and the CapEx to be done for this? So what is the time line for this CapEx? And when can we see the production starting for this?
So we've already started some commercial production in this quarter. And as I had mentioned in my opening, we are looking at about an INR 8 crore revenue for the current year. And the same production next year should be looking at around INR 30 crores to INR 35 crores. But we will be putting in certain CapEx in the coming financial year mainly to prepare ourselves for some of the future orders, which we would be formally closing very soon, and I would be able to only share those details henceforth. But to prepare for that production, we will be putting in some CapEx in FY '23.
Okay. And what will be your CapEx for next year if you have drawn some line?
So overall, as a company, as I mentioned, I mean, this year, give or take, we -- Sanjay mentioned, we will be around INR 45 crores to INR 50 crores CapEx as a company as a whole. And next year, we expect a similar number to continue, maybe about INR 50 crores or so.
Including this Alps JV, which we'll be doing.
Yes. Including our share of the CapEx for the Alps JV.
Okay, okay, okay. So next year, we should be close to INR 2,000 crores revenue?
Well, difficult. I mean this year, let's say if we were to look at a growth rate of 30% or so, we would be tracking somewhere close to INR 1,500 crores for the current year and on that INR 1,500 crores if I were to bag another in the third, give or take, 25%, 30% growth, so it comes to INR 2,000 crores. So yes, I mean, that would be our endeavor. But again, we are all living in a very volatile market. I don't want to get the hopes too high. But surely, our endeavor would be to continue driving growth at a similar rate even in FY '23.
And the margins will be close to 12%-plus kind of margin on higher turnover that -- we can expect that?
Well, I would say I think we have been able to, first and foremost, sustain the current EBITDA margin. So if you were to look at the current margins, they are standing somewhere around and 11.5% to 12%. I think that is what we should be able to sustain next year. And with the incremental revenue, and let's say, certain product lines also expanding, I mean our endeavor surely would be to try and touch the 12% mark. And as I said, our midterm plan is to get to the teens EBITDA. But that would be our endeavor for FY '23.
Great. Sir, last suggestion was just a request. Distributing large 30%, 40% of dividend policy, which is highly taxable nowadays. Are you looking -- we would suggest you to have some kind of a buyback kind of a thing that all of us are paying a huge amount of taxes on the dividend also. So my suggestion is that you should look at the route of doing a buyback kind of thing and reducing the equity, which is always helpful for a long-run time. This is my suggestion, if you can take it forward.
Okay, Apurva. We'll take it into consideration. Thank you for that suggestion.
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of [ Priyanka Singh ] from [indiscernible] Securities.
So sir, as you mentioned that you have applied for PLI scheme, can you share about product details and how many benefits we are going to get from the same?
Sure. I'll let Vikas give you some back on that.
So thank you, [ Priyanka ], for that question. As you are aware, under the automotive segment, the OEM have a scheme running for which the results are already out. On the component side, at the advanced automotive technology components, you'll be happy to know that on your company's side, there are 5 JVs that have qualified with their products in the first application list. The threshold investment figure would be definitely exceeded significantly. And it would be able to generate a 3x kind of revenue on the proposed investment capacity, both at Lumax Mannoh, Lumax Cornaglia, Lumax FAE and Lumax Ituran, which is a subsidiary now for Lumax Auto Technologies. So I will request Mr. Deepak Jain to supplement it.
I think that we, as I said, have applied through Lumax Auto Technologies for 5 entities of the JVs, we are very bullish that our applications would be accepted. And once it is accepted, we will be able to lead the investment criteria and get the revenue growth. So I think that's important. I think we still would wait for the application approval until we're are able to do then disclose what kind of plans we have for our JVs and how it will impact.
But I would just like to add that I think we are very happy and fortunate that most of the key product lines in the current part and even for the future growth do fall under the PLI scheme. So we are quite hopeful that once -- if we are through with the PLI scheme, it will definitely add significant value to the company in the coming years.
Okay. That was helpful. Apart from that, any of our production plants running at full capacity? Like what kind of capacity utilization we are expecting in Q4? And so -- and do we expect like any further investments for existing products to increase the capacity?
So most of our product lines are currently running between a 75% to 80% capacity utilization. In Q4, also, we expect a similar utilization. So to that extent, I don't see any substantial investment on new capacities in FY '23. However, the four-wheeler Plastic division, which I had mentioned earlier and also for possibly the Emission product line, which I had mentioned earlier, those probably will be running at about 90% or so. So we do expect certain capacity enhancement in these product lines and also to grow the Metallic business further because Metallic business also runs pretty much at optimum capacity for each model. So for the new model, we will be probably expanding our footprint into a bigger facility and maybe investing certain money in deeper backward integration of the power coating facility so that we are able to get better realization per vehicle for our Metallics business. So these will be some of the things, which we would be investing in for next financial year.
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of [ Harshul Shah from Manual Research ].
Sir, can you help me with the net cash on books, sir, as on Q3 FY '22?
It is net cash is INR 56 crores. The bank balance of INR 190 crores. And if I take the debt out from that, the net cash is INR 56 crores.
Net cash is INR 56 crores?
And ratio is [ 0.83% ] and carrying the debt of [ INR 2 crores, INR 3 crores ] in the books.
I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Well, I would like to thank you all for joining into the call. I really hope that we were able to answer all your questions. If there are any further queries, you may please get in touch with us or SGA. We will be happy to address all your questions and queries. Thank you. Stay safe, and stay healthy.
Thank you very much. On behalf of Lumax Auto Technologies Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.