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Kaveri Seed Company Ltd
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Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Kaveri Seed Company's Q4 FY '23 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference will be recorded. Joining us today on this call is Mr. Mithun Chand, Executive Director.
Before we begin, I would like to mention that some of the statements made in today's call may be forward-looking in nature and may involve risks and uncertainties. First list of such considerations, please refer to the earnings presentation.
I would now like to hand the call over to Mr. Mithun Chand. Over to you, sir.
Thank you. Good evening, and welcome, everyone, to our quarter 4 and financial year '23 earnings conference call. We hope you have had a chance to review the presentation of our results, which is also available on our website. I will touch upon the operational and functional performance of the company and then open the floor for the question-and-answer session.
We are delighted to declare a good set of numbers for the year on account of realizing good growth in both volumes and revenues. Both Cotton and Non-cotton segments have equally done well during the year and we expect the same trend to continue in the next couple of years. Maize, Rice, Wheat and Vegetable segments continue to do well. And Bajra's growth is very encouraging due to increased focus of Government of India by way of promoting millets as part of the millets mission.
New hybrids launched in Cotton and Maize have contributed for increase in the volumes and realizations, which has in turn resulted in higher EBITDA margins during the year, and the same trend would continue in the next 2 to 3 years. With an increasing number of new variants, we are confident of increasing our market share in cotton. The good growth rate in Maize, both in terms of volumes and revenues were seen during the current year and the trend should continue in the coming years on account of increasing demand for both animal feed and biofuel blending demand in the country. NITI Aayog estimated the requirement of ethanol for financial year '26 at 13.5 billion liters, out of which 50% of the ethanol would be made from maize and sugar -- maize and rice, and rest from the sugarcane. The biofuel demand would increase the demand for industrial use of maize, which can be achieved only by increasing acreages in the new and high-yielding hybrids introduced by companies like us.
Financial highlights. Revenues from operations were at INR 1000.56 crores as compared to INR 915 crores in financial year '22, registered growth of 9.35%. EBITDA was at INR 296.94 crores as compared to INR 238.41 crores in financial year '22, grown by 24.55%. Net profit was at INR 267.04 as compared to INR 208.9 crores in financial year '22, grown by 27.83%. EBITDA margin was at 29.68% for the financial year '23 versus 26.09% for financial year '22, increased by 359 basis points. PAT margins were up by 26.69% for financial year '23 versus 22.83% for financial year '22, grown by 386 basis points. Cash and book stands at INR 538 crores as on 31st March.
Operational highlights. Cotton volumes increased by 7% and revenue increased by 2.87%. Hybrid Rice volumes increased by 12.33%. Selection Rice volumes grew by 6.18%. Maize volumes increased by 25.61% and revenues by 22.37%. The contribution of new products was up from 17.39% to 33.87% of volume in Maize. Bajra volumes increased by 25.16% and revenues increased by 30.66%. The contribution of new products was up from 41.42% to 54.11% of the volumes in Bajra. Vegetable seed sales volumes are stable and revenue increased by 3.76%. Vegetable crops like Bitter Gourd, Tomato, Okra and Waterman have done well during the year.
Bihar, Chhattisgarh, West Bengal, Odisha, Rajasthan, and Telangana are the key states for vegetable seed business. Exports continue to be strong. Export volume has increased by 35.09% and revenues up by 42.44% as compared to the last year. Presently, exporting to Vietnam, Bangladesh, Nepal and few countries of Middle East and Africa. Over the past couple of months, government panel has given go ahead to field trials for several GM crops like potato, banana cotton besides giving approvals for mustard in the past.
I will now open the floor for the question-and-answer session.
[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Keshav Garg from countercyclical PMS.
Sir, thank you for good results. And, sir, thank you for repeated share buyback. Sir, I just wanted to get your view on the -- this financial year, FY '24. So what is the expectation in terms of top line and EBITDA? In your judgment, you think we can exceed our all-time high revenue of around INR 160 crores top line and INR 310 crores EBITDA that we did in FY '15?
We see a good year ahead. Most of the crops would remain same, sidelines of a percentage of 5% plus or minus. We see a good growth rate for Vegetables in the coming year. Apart from that, Maize looks very interesting. Maize has good scope to grow by seeing the yields and the price. Cotton should be a, sidewise. Bajra, we will be growing in Bajra. Rice and -- [ variable ] and hybrid rice, the market may grow by 2% to 3%, but we have -- we will be -- with the market, we'll be growing around 8% to 10% in both the segments. Overall, as a company, we see a projection of 10% to 12% as a top line growth and 15% to 20% as bottom line.
Okay, sir. That is very encouraging. And sir, except for Bajra, sir, in this year also, sir, we can see that our volumes in Cotton, Maize, et cetera, the volumes have grown faster than the revenue growth. So that means that there is some price derealization. I mean the realizations went down. So is this trend expected to continue? Or is this trend expected to reverse?
For example, in cotton -- the last year was a very tough year. The realization was much lower last year than compared to the previous year. I mean the current year was lower when compared to the previous. Whereas Maize, the new hybrid -- the revenues were up and the margins were also up. But whereas the older hybrid, the revenues -- the margins are lower.
If you see in terms of volume and revenue growth, in Maize, it's more or less same -- 1%, 2%; whereas, in Cotton, the revenue has -- volume has grown by 6%, 7%, but the revenues are only grown by 2-odd percent. So we have seen a slight decline in realizations in the cotton. Whereas in the other crops like rice, it's all sideways. From this year, we think the realizations will move up compared to the previous year.
Sure, sir. And sir, lastly, on the margin side, sir, our margins have increased year-on-year as you had told us previously. So -- but for this present year, do you think that we can go back to 29% margin that we did in FY '21?
As also, the EBITDA margins are -- like 26%.
Sir, on a consolidated basis, it's around 24% if we take out the other...
I'm taking on a stand-alone basis. Stand-alone basis, it's like 24%. Stand-alone basis is 24%. Definitely, we can see an improvement of at least 1 to 2 percentage points up when compared to the previous year...
We have the next question from the line of [ Nitin Aswathi ] -- I'm sorry, it's Nitin Awasthi from InCred Equity.
I had a few questions. Starting with, has the cotton seeds price been revised by the government for the current year?
Yes. It's up by 7% or 6%, 5%. Absolute prices are INR 853.
INR 853. And for -- this is for which variety?
All varieties, all BG-II.
BG-II, okay. This all BG-II, okay. And INR 853, and previous year it was?
It was close to INR 800.
It was close to INR 800. But we realized much lower because we had to pass on substantial amount of our -- the increase of last year to the sales channel, if I'm not wrong?
Yes. We have not realized, even though the prices were up this year compared to the previous year. We couldn't realize it from the market as there was stiff competition and we've given many discounts to the dealer. We have realized -- that's what I mentioned earlier also, we have realized a lower rate in cotton [indiscernible].
Okay. How much -- how do you think that will change this year? Do you see again the same amount of pressure and us passing on all the incremental increase in price to the trade channel? Or do you think we'll be able to retain most of it like we used to do in the earlier years?
We don't see that sort of pressure this year. This year, the stock is also limited compared to the previous year. And the availability of the seed is also limited. We see definitely increase in the realization compared to last year. But to what extent? That we can only say as the market evolve. But definitely, the realization will be higher than last year.
Got it. Sir, the next question I had was, we have set up shop in Bangladesh, right, through a subsidiary?
We were doing business in Bangladesh earlier also. But right now, we have setting up a subsidiary company in Bangladesh for the further sales -- for the future sales because we are doing in Bangladesh for the last 5, 6 years. The results are encouraging. So we want to set up our own subsidiary there.
Understood. But Bangladesh is regulatorily more advanced when it comes to GM crops than India. Is that correct? And if that is correct, do we have technologies to cater in Bangladesh because there will be players in Bangladesh who are ahead of us.
So basically, what we are doing is that we are having our research centers in India itself. We are only selling the seeds which are suitable and developed in India and then selling it in Bangladesh because we even sell it in the other parts of the state. We are trying to place those headwinds in those markets and take the market share. Now when we start research in Bangladesh down the line, then we will be very much competent with the players. There are -- most of the players are MNC players there. So even the MNC players -- the same MNCs are present in India as well, we are having the same competition here and that we are also giving tough fight for them. So that shouldn't be a great difficulty for us to operate on our own in Bangladesh.
Understood, sir. Sir, the government is strengthening its own company, National Seed Corporation. Are we seeing increasing competition from that company?
Basically, National Seed Corporation deals with varieties, whereas we deal with hybrids. The majority of our sales are in hybrids. So we don't see any competition from them.
Okay. Understood. And sir, some aggregators, some agri aggregators who were very strong and who have recently raised your of money and got very strong in their own businesses, namely DeHaat or be it AgroStar, they have started the seed business where they're selling seeds under their own brand. And they have their own seeds business rather than aggregating it from everybody else. Before they used to aggregate it from seed companies like yourself. Are we seeing them as a threat in the future?
We don't see that because in the seed business, capital is not important. I mean to say, it's important, but it's just not like if we spend $1 billion [indiscernible] waiting time, it's requires [ some larger time ] for the R&D and it's a high entry-barrier business. And the competition, whatever seed companies that are there in India, we are there since last 40 to 50 years. It is not easy to develop actually in the next 4, 5 years. And anyone is like setting up a new company, then definitely will -- if something is good, definitely, we'll be competing with them. But it's too early for them to take the market share in the next 5 to 6 years.
Understood. The last question from my side. We have HTBT, mustard and cotton, which has been approved by the government. We also have HT maize, which was approved by the government. We have potato, banana also approved by the government. And field trials for some of these crops have started. Are we selected for the field trials of any of these crops?
Basically, we are not working in any of the GM crops. We are there in cotton. We have a tie-up with [ Monsanto ], the current player. So we have given -- we are with them, we will take the license at how it was earlier. But whereas in mustard and other crops, we are not working on GM crops. But something -- someone introduced the technology, someone [ from the government talk to them ], someone is there to share the technology, we'll definitely take the license and do it.
But what is the apprehension from the company side. The company has capital, the company has scope, the company has the marketing legs for the product. So why is the company not backward integrating and putting up -- and it has the own research. So this is simple question that I have. What is the apprehension from the company side?
We have our own research. We need to develop our best. But whereas GM technologies, it's [indiscernible] a very old technology. It's already there in certain places. It's just like reinventing the wheel. And it's a high capital-intensive business. And when we are able to get the same technology as a license by paying some sort of a license, we don't want to invest in that. For example, [indiscernible] center. The -- we have a license and we can always source that license. And [ Monsanto ] there is not the only company who has the [indiscernible] technology. There are many N number of players. It's not a monopoly.
Got it, sir. And what about gene editing, which has been passed in China recently for soya, if I'm not wrong? That is a newer technology, that is also available with everybody.
CRISPR technology is, again, that's a different one. And that's not -- that doesn't come under GM crop -- the gene editing. We are working on that. We are working with company, but it will take some time.
Okay. So that you are working by ourselves, for ourselves?
So there are other companies are there. We are adding some sort of a tie-up, but it will take a longer time to get some [indiscernible] that. But in traditional breeding and that marker-assisted breeding activity, we are having our own research, and we are able to get good hybrids in that. But that's a technology which we are already concentrating on.
The next question is from the line of [ Udhayaprakash ] from [ Value Research India Private Limited ].
Sir, congrats on a great set of number.
Sorry. You are not audible.
Sir, can you hear me now?
Can you be a little bit louder?
Yes, sir. Can you hear me now?
Yes. Yes.
Yes, sir. I have 2 questions from my side. The first is, as we see, we have seen good growth in our exports, both volume-wise and revenue-wise. So can you please tell us what is the percentage of export revenue of the total revenue for FY '23 and '22? The number available?
Yes. Last year, it was like 1.4%. This time, it is slightly closer to [indiscernible] revenue.
Are we seeing any growth going forward in the export market as -- are we pushing it? Or is this completely without any push and growing organically?
If you see in the presentation also, we said that we are exploring other parts of the world. And definitely, export is a very big market. Seed business, even it takes longer time to develop a hybrid, and even after developing hybrid -- to farmer to believe you and to trust the hybrid, it takes a longer time. So that the time we are taking it. We are in initial stages of, like, export market, and we are very bullish on exports. And that will be a major contributor; not major contributor, but a decent contributor going forward to the revenue.
So next year, we can expect the same 2% to 2.5% of the revenue exports?
So we're fairly expanding it. We can't say the absolute number because even other segment, even as a main company, whereas growing at 10% to 12%. So that -- we should grow at 20%, 25% there. But we have plans to grow. The base is very small. But we have plans to grow and definitely that's a good area where we are focusing on.
Okay, sir. My next question is on Selection Rice side. It has seen -- it has just put it a flattish growth this year. So is this due to the lower realizations? Or are there any other headwinds during the year?
This year was a tough year in terms of the realization in some crops. This is a major product that we deal with, maize and rice. It was a tough year. So the -- even though there was a slight increase in the volume, the realizations were at lower side. But this year, I think the realization will be on higher side compared to the previous year .But even though, this year, overall as a company, the EBITDA margins have increased because we have -- this year it was good for Bajra and Sunflower. Even though Sunflower contributes lower, but the margins were really good in Sunflower. So the advantage of our company is that we have a huge product portfolio. When we have tough conditions in 1 crop, 1 crop we can add. So in that way, we are able to maintain and increase our realization. It's the nature of the business, [ 1 year EBITDA, 1 year ] [indiscernible]. So in that way, there isn't much to bother about it.
Okay, sir. My final question is on contribution of Cotton and Non-cotton growths. In the last 5, 6 years, the revenue of Non-cotton growth has -- total revenue has improved dramatically. It was 42% in FY '19, and right now in this year, 62%. Are we still trying to expand this portion? Or are we trying to find a balance at this moment?
If you recollect, we were saying that from '14, '15, which was a peak year for us in terms of the revenues, the cotton contributed to more than 75% of our revenue. From that day, we were saying that the dependence of the cotton will go down and non-cotton growth will increase. And going further -- forward, non-cotton will contribute more to our growth. That's what we see now. Even now from going forward, both Cotton and Non-cotton has equal potential to grow in the company. So I think that the 30-70 combination will be there for a couple of years going forward.
The next question is from the line of Tarang from Old Bridge Capital.
A couple of questions on my side. One, in your opening address, you mentioned that the rice market should probably grow about 2% to 3%. But you believe you can significantly outgrow the market. Just wanted to get a sense, I mean, what's driving this confidence given the difficult year we've had and realizations have also taken a significant hit?
If you see the current year also, the markets were flat or it were down 1% to 2% compared to the previous year. Even in the tough conditions, we were able to grow in both in terms of the revenue and in terms of the volume, both in Hybrid Rice and Selection Rice. This year, we see a slight increase in the market, but our hybrids are doing well. The new varieties, which we have introduced both in Selection Rice and In Hybrid Rice are doing well. And we are confident that we can definitely grow in these 2 segments this year as well. As I said in the earlier remarks itself, last year was a bit tough year in terms of the realization, but we don't see that sort of difficulty this year as of now.
Okay. So is this confidence incumbent on your placements currently?
Yes, the placements are in line with our anticipation. We are in line with that.
Okay. The second question is on cotton acreages, right? I mean overall, the outlook for cotton is rather somber. So just wanted to get your sense, what's your view on acreages? It's a big crop contributing in Q1 for you. So how placements there, especially considering globally the prices have come off significantly from where we were at the same time last year?
What we see, the cotton area acreages should remain flat or like -- I don't see much of an increase in the acreages this year compared to the previous year because the other crops are doing well. So as a company, we are only anticipating 5% to 10% book in cotton with this. But even the other crops, like in Maharashtra, soya is also, the prices are not that great. That's the only point where we need to look at it, the timely rainfall, then that will move for the groundnut. Otherwise, if the rainfall is delayed, then that might move to the cotton. Otherwise, in a normal year, the acreages should remain flat for cotton.
Okay. The third question is what was the customer advances figure as on 31st March '23?
It's like [ INR 160 crores or INR 170 crores ], just I'll reconfirm about the figure. But right now, we are discouraging -- in terms of the last 3, 4 years, we are discouraging for the advances. As we are realizing low, we are not taking advances from the market. We're not that aggressively pushing it.
Okay. The third question is on your bajra and sunflower business. I mean, how big are each of these products? And what was this number for FY '22?
Sunflower, we've done close to INR 30-odd crores this year, INR 28 crores, INR 30 crores, last -- against INR 12 crores, INR 13 crores last year. And the realizations were very good in Sunflower. Bajra also, we were like INR 13 crores, we've done INR 20 crores this year. So overall, we see Bajra will grow going forward. Bajra has a potential to be INR 100 crores [indiscernible], whereas Sunflower should remain same [indiscernible] from this year, what we have told. We don't see any much growth in Sunflower this year.
Got it. And the last is the INR 133 crores of CWIP on the balance sheet. I mean, is this the R&D building or is there something more to it? And how should we see it for getting commissioned, the INR 133 crore of CWIP on balance sheet, capital work in progress, INR 133 crores?
There are a couple of things which are there in that. One is the office building, new office building, which we took, that's one; the property, which is out there. One plant, which is also there. We have set up a [ processing plant ] and cold storage and warehouses, that's 1 part. And the other one is the R&D building. It's a combination of all.
Okay. And all of that should come -- should be capitalized in FY '24, correct?
Yes. some are all like plant will be operational. Office should be operational. But R&D may take more some time.
Okay. Just last question. How do you see the placements this year versus the year before?
The placements are good compared to previous year. We're in line with the placements, with their estimates, and we don't see any difficult as of now in terms of the placements. But nothing has gone into, see, ground as of now, but -- placements are there, but it all depends on the rainfall. That's a regular activity for us and we'll get a clear picture once the monsoon starts.
Got it. And given the soft outlook on Cotton, would it be fair to presume that it's a little more skewed towards Non-cotton or it's...
Definitely. Definitely, going forward as the Non-cotton portfolio is a very big portfolio, and you have many crops in that, and every crop has got a huge scope to grow. But what I said in the initial -- is that cotton should be like 30-70 going forward because we see that we cannot go below this cotton bracket. And we have very good pipeline as well, which are coming. So we have a potential to grow to that 80 lakhs to, like, 1 crores in the next 3, 4, 5 years whenever ready. So that's the reason we said that even cotton is a crop that will grow going forward.
Because that would entail almost doubling your volumes from the current levels?
Yes.
The next question is from the line of Sanjeev Zarbade from Dream Ladder Investment Advisors.
[indiscernible]
Sir, sorry to interrupt, but the line for you is very unclear. Request you to please use the handset.
My first question is regarding the other current liabilities, which have actually gone up from INR 296 crores to INR 366 crores. So what is that on account of?
One is the payables to the production [indiscernible] . That is a major chunk in that.
Okay. And also during this year, our biological assets have gone up by almost 40%. So how should we look at it? And what kind of benefit we can expect to accrue in the coming years from this?
Nothing is there. Whatever you're talking about, the biological assets, are basically the inventories. And we are anticipating more, so the inventories are also up. That's the only part.
Okay. Okay. And sir, regarding our revenue in the sense that if we see our revenue has been more or less stuck in the same range for the last 4 to 5 years. So what kind of medium-term target or vision we have for the business so that, as an investor, we can take a more favorable look at the growth profile of the company?
I don't think it has been stagnant for 4, 5 years. In fact, if you see this year, revenues are up by 20% and profitability is up by more than 25% -- I agree that if you take in the last 7, 8 years, it will trend flattish. But if you see in the other way, the cotton prices were down, cotton volumes are down, cotton acreages are down, and which was contributing 75%, 80% of our total revenue. That is almost like 30%, 35% now.
So the other way to see is that we have grown in non-cotton crops to compensate the degrowth of cotton. But from this point where we see both the crops going forward, we see a revenue growth. Then definitely, we see revenue growth from here. Even in fact, we said that 10% to 12% in the top line and 15% to 20% in the bottom line growth. That should be what we are anticipating, and that should continue. And we are very bullish on the long-term growth, as well for the next long-term as well as the midterm for next 3 to 5 years, we've see this level of growth.
Okay. And sir, lastly, what can -- what utilization plans we have for the cash and investment that we have because we've completed 1 buyback? Now I just wanted to understand our dividend policy in the coming years.
So we're a company -- dividend paying company for the last [ 15 ] years since the time of [indiscernible]. And We have done high buybacks in the last 5 years. If you see the cash numbers in the last -- from 2014 to '15, it [indiscernible] [ INR 400 crores or INR 500 crores of ] cash. And whatever we have generated, we have distributed that to the shareholders, whatever free cash we generated. So that should be our policy going forward.
At the same time, if we see any opportunity in terms of the technology or in terms of any company acquisition, in terms of the R&D related or in terms of any strategic investment for the company, we are open for that. When -- if we don't see any opportunity, we don't want to hold back the cash [indiscernible]
The next question is from the line of Nitin Awasthi from InCred Equity.
So I wanted to understand the menace of illegal cotton seeds this time around. Is this still around? Is it still as big as it was last year and the year before that? Or has it been tamed?
Illegal seeds is even there now, but the awareness among the farmers and the -- from the government, they are very strict in terms of the illegal seeds. So in terms of the percentages, I don't see it will increase. In fact, it should come down as a percentage compared to the previous years.
[Operator Instructions] As we have no further questions, we thank you all for joining this call. For any further queries, please contact Mr. Rama Naidu from Intellect IR. He can be reached on 9920-209623. On behalf of Kaveri Seed Company Limited, that concludes this conference call. Thank you. You may now disconnect your lines.
Thank you.