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KNR Constructions Ltd
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Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to KNR Constructions Limited Q4 FY '24 Earnings Conference Call. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on the beliefs, opinions and expectations of the company and [indiscernible] date of this call. These statements are not guarantees of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded.
I now hand the conference over to Mr. K. Venkatram Rao, GM Finance and Accounts, KNR Construction Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Good afternoon. Thank you for joining us today on the call to discuss the financial results for the Q4 FY '24 and for the year 2024. Along with me, I have Mr. K. Jalandhar Reddy, Executive Director; and Strategic Growth Advisors, our Investor Relations advisers.
We have uploaded results in the investor presentation on the stock exchanges as well as on our company website. I hope everyone got an opportunity to go through it we would like to touch upon a few key company updates and industry events post which we will have a question and succession. I would now like to share our perspective on significant industry development. .
In the fiscal year 2023, '24, the Ministry of Road Transport and the Highway achieved our milestone by constructing 12,349 kilometers of national highways, marking the second highest achievement in history. For the upcoming years, the momentum is likely to continue with more commitment to project completion and number of projects in the pipeline, and increased government funding. This is [indiscernible] by the most spend of around INR 545 billion and highway construction in April 2024 which is 20% of this annual allocated CapEx.
For the year 2024, '25 and industry research report predict a 5% to 8% increase in road construction activity which translates to an estimated 13,000 kilometers of the new roads to the builder. This is further backed by the 100-days plan shared by the [indiscernible]. This plan is to be implemented after the incoming of the new government. The plan also includes construction of over 1,700 kilometers of the highway in the first 3 months post-election and award contract for the over 3,000 kilometers of the project highways.
This is indeed very motivating for the industry. For FY '24 NHI spend 99.98% of the revised capital expenditure allocation of INR 2.6 trillion, whereas as on the award from the minister was able to award a total of 8,551 kilometer at FY '23, '24. The road construction is one of the country's priority, India's road secretary has unveiled plan to integrate an additional 6,000 kilometers of the high-speed highway into the country's road network. This ambitious endeavor aims to enhance connectivity and improve transportation if you can see across the nation, benefiting both urban and remote areas. Monetization continues to be important for both NHI and [indiscernible]. Both the agency have progressed well on this parameter. NHI has exceeded expectation in FY '24 by rising INR 40,314 crores through various asset monetization channels. surprising the target of INR 28,868 crores. Notably, NHI asset monetization endeavors have now crossed INR 1 trillion mark. Further, NSA identified 33 highway stretch of a total of 2,741 kilometers of monetization in the fiscal year 2025. And most has set a target of INR 600 billion. from the asset monetization in FY '25.
Now coming to the key updates of the company. The percentage of physical progress as of March 31, 2024 for the [indiscernible] project is as under. [indiscernible] somewhat around 83%, [indiscernible] around 99%, [indiscernible] to [indiscernible] approximately 73%, [indiscernible] to [indiscernible] approx 75% and [indiscernible] 51%. As of company -- as of March 31, 2024, the company had already invested INR 488 crores, out of INR 999 crores, the revised equity requirement for the existing [indiscernible] assets. The additional equity requirement of INR 5.4 crores to be infused at INR 350 crores, INR 90 crores and INR 64 crores for FY '25, '26, '27, respectively. You can refer to the Slide #28 of the investor presentation for the detail on each hand project. During the Q4 FY '24, the company received a claim amount of INR 135 crores towards principal and INR 109 crores towards interest which was shown in the revenue and other income, respectively. And the expenses related to such claim of INR 27 crores and tax up around INR 54 crores also accounted as other expenses and current tax.
During Q4 FY '24, the company has made a provision towards impairment of equity of around INR 55 crores and towards doubtful advance of INR 32 crores and towards doubtful [indiscernible] receivables of around INR 10 crores, for one of its subsidiary company that is [indiscernible] Private Limited as the toll collection of the project is not sufficient to recover the cost of the maintenance and the debt obligation, which were included in other expenses. .
And the [indiscernible] items are included in results Q4 and the impacted results to that extent. In Q4 FY '24, INR 9.6 crores collected as a [indiscernible] for Bihar project for that [indiscernible]. And for FY '24, the total toll collection is INR 41.3 crores. The company received 10 February, 2024, as I appointed it for the 6 lining of [indiscernible], which is a part of [indiscernible] economic corridor. This project is a greenfield highway awarded by the NHI and HAM model under [indiscernible] Phase 1 in the state Andhra Pradesh. We are still awaiting the appointed for NHI for our HAM project in the state of Karnataka, namely K&R, [indiscernible], MKNR [indiscernible] Limited. The appointed date is yet to be declared. Now coming to the order book position. As of March 31, 2024, the company has a total book position of INR 5,305 crores. This can be bifurcated at 60% for the EPC road project [indiscernible] project and 19%, the total order which is for irrigation project and balance 21% is a pipeline project.
[indiscernible] like fabrication is 61% is order book from the third party and the balance 39 million from the [indiscernible] consumption. Out of 61% of order book of third party is the excuse between the state government [indiscernible] 50%, where 9% from central government and balanced 2% from other private players.
The order book includes the water supply project in [indiscernible] and sewerage project in 4 [indiscernible] under [indiscernible] awarded by the government of Telangana amounting to approximately INR 1,105 crores, which is awarded during Q4 FY '24. Keynote that the order book does not include contract aggregating to INR 1,200 crores as on -- as we are not received appointed date for 2 HAM project. If we include this, the order book will increase to INR 6,505 crores. The current order book position remains stable and provide visual of execution of over around 1.5 years. We are optimistic of our new project awarding activities after the results are out and the new government takes share. The company is targeting an order inflow of INR 2,000 crores to INR 3,000 crores during the next quarter. And however, the total inflow for FY '24 is targeting around INR 5,000 crores to INR 6,000 crores.
The sustainable growth remains our priority in derisking an essential part of our strategy. This provides us sale against potential downturn and unstructured events. We continue to explore new jurgraphical and undertake unconventional project like irrigation, metro telling, railway, mining, solar, et cetera. This move is not only to safeguard I guess any uncertainty, but also ensure a more stable and sustainable growth trajectory in the dynamic business plan.
As of now, the receivables from the [indiscernible] government amount to roughly INR 800 crores, which includes for some awaiting certification. Now let me take you through the FY '24 and FY '24 [indiscernible] on financial performance as followed by the consolidated financial highlights.
I will start with quarterly highlights first. The revenue for the quarter had growth of around 12% year-on-year to INR 1,315 crores. EBITDA for Q4 FY '24 is stable at year-on-year growth to INR 212 crores -- sorry, INR 214 crores as compared to INR 212 crores in Q4 FY '23. EBITDA remain in Q4 FY '24 is at 16%. Net profit for the quarter was INR 198 crores, visa vis to INR 129 crores in Q1 FY '23. Now coming to FY '24 highlights. The revenue for FY '24 is INR 4,900 crores with a growth by 9% year-on-year. EBITDA for FY '24 witnessed a the book up 3% to INR [ 701 ] crores as compared to INR 722 crores in FY '23. EBITDA margin in the FY '24 stood at 17.1%. Net profit for FY '24 was INR 494 crores as compared to INR 499 crores in FY '23, which includes INR 138 crores of exceptional profit would during FY '23 on account of sale of our [indiscernible] projects. Now coming to the consolidated financial performance, and we'll start with the quarterly highlights, first. The company recorded a year-on-year growth of 14% in total revenue for INR 12,045 crores in Q4 FY '23 to INR 1,410 crores in Q4 FY '24. EBITDA came at INR 375 crores in Q4 FY '24, visa Vis INR 246 crores in Q4 FY '23.
EBITDA remain in the current quarter stood at 26.5%. Profit after tax stood at INR 341 crores in Q4 FY '24 visa vis INR 142 crores in Q4 FY '23, a growth of around 40%. Moving on FY '24 highlights. The revenue for FY '24 grew by 9%, we are near to INR 4,430 crores. EBITDA for FY '24 was INR 1,048 crores as compared to INR 917 crores in FY '23 registering 14% growth.
EBITDA margin for FY '24 stood at 23.7%. Net profit improved the external profit grew by 71% year-on-year to INR 752 crores. Now moving on the standalone balance sheet. The company continues to maintain a strong balance sheet. The working capital days stood at 89 days as on 31st March 2024 and 67 days as an 31 March '23 due to higher irrigation receivables in March '24. The consolidated debt as of March -- as of March '24 is INR 1,220 crores as compared to INR 610 crores as of March '23. The net debt-to-equity on consolidated basis as of March 31, 2024, is trend at [ 0.345 ].
With this, we open the floor for question and answer. You can add the [indiscernible]. You can.
[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Mohit Kumar from ICICI Securities.
The next question is from the line of Alok Deora from Motilal Oswal.
Just had a few questions. First, on the order inflow, which has been pretty subdued and your order book is nearly at around INR 6,500. So what's the thought on the order inflow for -- I mean, how are we seeing the order inflow for FY '25? And what could be the execution now or any guidance on the execution for FY '25 and '26 based on the current order backlog because even within this 1,200 projects, INR 1,200 crores worth of projects are not under the execution, I mean, not issued the appointed date. So just if you could throw some color on that?
[indiscernible] sir is there? Yes, definitely, in respect of -- right now, we have order book of around INR 6,500 crores. And the visuality is -- actually how now we are looking in order book is that, definitely for next quarter, actually, we target to achieved between INR 2,000 crores to INR 3,000 crores of order book definitely. And here, our target is around INR 5,000 crores to INR 6,000 crores is order book. So that's for now. [indiscernible] has also joined. He will also give the order book guidance and [indiscernible]
I think we are in discussion about order book issues. So I think after election, I think then the level [indiscernible] we are also [indiscernible] sector concerned.
We are also started partners to participate in to BOT toll projects so that our -- we will be the minor partner and dollar proportion we'll be giving the biggest [indiscernible] And EPC, we will take as a major part. So in that way, we are cutting out the things. So there, the BOT toll is very where [indiscernible] toll [indiscernible], there could be some good price, which could come up.
And later, we'll exit our minor project also. So that is the strategy for going forward for this. And for from that HAM project, [indiscernible] will be bidding them. Apart from that that we have already started MoUs with the [indiscernible] Construction Centered, NCC for metro, participation of Metro and major religion projects also, we have started 1 MoU with [indiscernible]. So these 2 areas, now we are [indiscernible]. I think first we are going to place in [indiscernible] along with NCC. And most of other outlooks online, sir.
And [indiscernible] also we are considering even mining bits also, we are considering. So going forward, the target is about, say, INR 5, 000 crores to INR 6,000 crores. Immediately, we need to request the order, which we are trying to do it. Apart from that, I think we are starting some of -- we are adding some of the discussions with the MSRDC main contractors who have got. So we will take some 1 project at least from that portion. That's what we are now in discussion with. Once we get on to that, I think we will also be comfortable to announce that. .
Sur,sir. So this year, based on the orders which we have, what kind of growth we are looking at for FY '25? What revenue number you're looking at?
Actually, FY '25 is going to be a little bit down, I believe I'm also not a bit confident because all these orders we take. And then when they get [indiscernible] and all then there'll be a big issues. But however, that [indiscernible] project has not started up as of now.
Only the [indiscernible] project is started come out of that. And again, the INR 1,200 crores which we backed out of is the micro-irrigation project, public health department, that is also -- is going to start now. So with all that, I think -- really, if we go -- that's the last year figure, that is [indiscernible] greater thing what we can do in this. We will try our best in [indiscernible]
And again, the Kerala projects and all in the May month only it is started. First of May the rain is stated. So it's going on as of now. Then unseasonal rain has a little bit bothering us. So a little bit challenging on this year is the [indiscernible]. There some extent, I think we'll be able to deliver the last year figure only. So going forward, I think '16 and 2026 would be -- that would be great, that's what I'm thinking.
Sure. And sir, in terms of margins, we expect it to be in the 16%, 17% range.
Actually, it depends on the quality of the orders which we intake. Definitely, I should always focus on such results. After [indiscernible], then we will try to again come back on this. .
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Jiten Rushi from Axis Capital.
My first question is on the partnership which you are talking about with NCC, [indiscernible] you get Metro and irrigation projects. So what kind of -- and also on BOT toll where you will be a small minor partner and then will be 100% EPC and probably will sell your stake on [indiscernible] elite operational. So in the BOT toll, you are looking for a partner. So who will be your major partner there, sir?
So one -- a few projects we have discussed with this [indiscernible] and the second one is under the [indiscernible] market concluded. I think [indiscernible] started now. I think the election will be depending on the big size and all then we'll go for MOUs. We are also getting qualification of INR 2,500 crores direct participation to toll projects. So [indiscernible] that around 74% will be held with few.
Large part, the major part.
[indiscernible] [indiscernible] one more method, that they wanted us to give the EPC build. I mean they want to be the entire dollar per for that actually. So then that is being started out.
So can you please [indiscernible]
[indiscernible] going to achieve another couple of 10, 15 days, we'll get more clarity on this. This is the method which we are starting.
The partners, I think [indiscernible] is now almost [indiscernible] than it is in conclusion and the revenue [indiscernible] under discussion.
So basically, one project are going to -- trying to build another [indiscernible] and other couple of projects to other partners.
Yes. Yes. Like that.
And sir, NCC, what would be your portion? So NCC already -- major peer in the micro segment...
[indiscernible] I think 51 -- if I do the project, I'll take 51. If you take [indiscernible] he will take 51, like that, we have started [indiscernible]
So EPC also would be done in [indiscernible]
It's a back-to-back [indiscernible] and we'll do ourselves. And if there is any project [indiscernible] by them, they want from us, they will take from us and take the [indiscernible] peacefully.
It's more of a JV well, 100% EPC you will do in 1 project and probably another 100% being [indiscernible] way. .
They will do kind of that way.
And sir, in terms of the other sectors in the opening remarks...
I think, we have spoken [indiscernible] for some tunneling projects and all. I think -- and more is yet to do. We are under discussion. Almost -- he said, okay, one [indiscernible] offered also, 1 bid, we have done, but we were not successful. But upcoming. we will do [indiscernible].
But sir, in irrigation, you already qualified. What I understand you will be qualified. Why you need to go for a partnership with [indiscernible] irrigation [indiscernible]
Irrigation projects where we'll be requiring some expertise -- minor portion and be requiring a partner. Some portion actually where I think the dams and power house -- power house, we have not completed. Once we complete 90% that [indiscernible] is useful for us.
Dams and lift irrigation is that, right?
Yes, lift irrigation [indiscernible]
[indiscernible] And sir, on the [indiscernible]
Category is valid. That is a problem. Until [indiscernible]
Sir, on the 10%, can you highlight what is the current outstanding kind of like [indiscernible] which we have bid for and when it will open and any targeting targeted tender pipeline which you're planning to bid for [indiscernible]
[Foreign Language] Some irrigation tenders were there in Telangana, but I think it's a government change, so what view they will take, I don't know.
Sir, anything...
In irrigation sector, we give the bids and they are not opened, and it is kept pending almost 5, 6 months onward. Only they open only, they will go for retendering which we don't know . In fact, [indiscernible] for expansion, we have given a extension [indiscernible]. We'll have to see that.
Are there any other -- any -- right now, there is no outstanding tender price. We'll be reading everything of fresh now going forward?
Yes, Going forward. Lot of gap that has come up in the last year's having [indiscernible]. And [indiscernible] was there to renew was a bit challenging. So I think going forward, that's why we are not completely depending on highways. We are starting to paneling projects...
Solar also you mentioned mining and -- solar also you mentioned any joint venture with any partners or for solar EPC?
Solar EPC. I don't require a partner, I'm qualifying directly.
Okay. You are qualifying directly. And mining also you are qualifying directly what [indiscernible]
[indiscernible]
The next question is from the line of Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital.
Sir, just to dwell on the same thing in terms of order inflow and the and execution that we are looking at for FY '25 and '26. So broadly trying to understand first the INR 6,500-odd crores. So obviously, 2 HAM projects, we haven't received the appointed date. So also help me when we are likely to get the appointed date. And out of that, how much execution we can look at in FY '25. So that is one aspect. So removing that the remaining INR 5,300 crores order book, out of that, how much we can do execution in FY '25.
Actually, FY '25 concerned, I think most of the order books should be executed by the [indiscernible] because I think Kerala projects and all other projects, they are like to [indiscernible] completed in the current year only. In fact, I think after June, July, I think there are expense [indiscernible] some excessive rains and there were some school issues and all that to let's say extension we have taken. So I think those all need to be completed in [indiscernible], most of them, except in that the payment is not received in the irrigation part for service. So we have put a court case on it in [indiscernible]. Because we could not wait for a long time that the government could resolve and we will not be -- they don't pay [indiscernible], well issue. So that's why we have gone to the court for that payment. So I think they don't continue to pay us or they don't show any country to pay us, then we'll have to start that project also.
So they're a little bit in but that way and a little bit -- not comfortable on giving the right figures in this year execution.
So -- but this irrigation when we are saying we are going to cod for package 4 we are talking about.
Yes, package 4 and package 5, I think partially we are refusing the -- 3, there is outstanding is not [indiscernible] So we are doing it. There's no problem.
Okay. Okay. And for the 2 HAM projects, when we are likely to get the appointed date and how much execution we can look at in FY '25. .
92 packages, sir. I think because of the election and there is only 50% land is acquired, 45% land in another project. So I think they said after election [indiscernible] is completely, I think all the offices that we put out in 1 month, we will clear on that. So expecting somewhere July, end or -- August [indiscernible] kind of that.
The participant got disconnected. The next question is from the line of Parvesh Qazi from Nuvama Group.
Couple of questions from my side. Sorry, I joined a bit late, so I apologize if these questions have been answered. What is our total pending receivables from the Telangana irrigation projects? .
Total funding receivable is -- [indiscernible] receivable is INR 600 crores. And with all uncertified put together is around INR 800 crores.
Got it. Secondly, in terms of how much equity we still need to put in our HAM projects? And if you could give us how much do we need to improve in FY '25 and '26. .
We also put around INR 500 crores, [indiscernible] further equity in our HAM project. So out of that, around INR 350 crores in this year actually, FY '25 and around INR 90 crores in FY '26 and balance INR 64 crores in FY '27.
Got it. . And lastly, I mean, in this quarter results, there were a lot of claims, et cetera. And in your results, we have given detailed notes on accounts regarding what proportion or what has been accounted in terms of revenues, taxes, other expenses, et cetera. I mean if we adjust for all those one-offs in terms of revenues, other expenses, etcetera, then our EBITDA margin seem to be quite low, I mean, in single digits. Is that a fair understanding of [indiscernible]
If you exclude all these things actually, one-off -- even then our EBITDA for this quarter is 16 -- 17.24%, and for the year is 17.4%. So I think there is some miscalculation in the working that we can discuss separately, and I will clarify you.
The next question is from the line of Shubham [indiscernible] from IDBI Capital.
In terms of order inflow, we mentioned 2 things, that for FY '25, INR 5,000 crores to INR 6,000 odd crores. And further, we mentioned in -- 2 to 3 months, we are expecting -- targeting INR 2,000 to INR 3,000 odd crores of orders. So is this the initial 2, 3 months order inflow target is made with 100 plan of most.
Yes. total year, we have planned from INR 5,000 crores to INR 6,000 crores. And immediately, we are targeting in INR 200 cores to INR 3,000 crores. So that is our target [indiscernible]
Not that the entire is INR 6,000 crores, has to be achieved in this year. And whichever is possible, we are trying to own get that.
Okay. So I think I mean my person of asking this question is this INR 2,000 crores to INR 3,000 crores, the target is have like zeroed down to particular sectors where exactly it will be coming? Or it is open as of now.
It is open as of now that we are exploring in all the sectors like our [indiscernible] Metro, BOT Toll, HAM, railway, mining, solar. All the sectors are there. That's why we have achieved that. We are planning to achieve that target.
Okay. Right, sir. And then this -- the March target of 100 days, the 3,000-odd kilometers, which you mentioned to be awarded in 100 days in your initial commentary. So are the tenders out in the market or this will start fresh after the new government formation happen, the [indiscernible] location happens after that, things will move.
Definitely, they have targeted at INR 2,700 crores, but that has to come to this new government will reform and they have already made a 100-day plan of around 1,700 kilometers of highway actually. So that definitely plans are there. So the post election, we expect that we should be materialize this.
We'll have to see only whether they go some of it HAM or -- as they heard, mostly I'm hearing that they will go with toll. Only that we should notice that we...
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Prem Khurana from Anand Rathi.
Sir, I want to understand a little better on this transaction or the arrangement that you want to have with the Cube highways. So I think, I mean, at least in last quarter, the thought process was we would go as a preferred construction partner. We don't intend to kind of invest in these assets? And I mean if I heard you right .
First [indiscernible] is given for that, willing -- that is -- if it is required, 20%, 25% of the portion we can participate right now. And later, we can close enough. [indiscernible] So for that also [indiscernible] for that also because to open up more opportunities for the company only. That's it. It will only give us more playing area.
Sure. But [indiscernible] -- so just to clarify, if Cub is open to give it to you without any equity commitment. Does that mean, I mean, the margins could be a little lower because obviously, then you are a pure subcontractor versus, I mean, if you will commit money, they'll let you make some more money. Is it the thought process or which is why I mean you're open to kind of consider that investment? Or I mean...
But [indiscernible] understanding was they made a first understanding, but let me give the key contract for that. And that price [indiscernible] for that for me. And we shall do the project in time and give them understanding. But we are also -- [ second ] product with few partners which are -- they are not getting qualifications, there are new [indiscernible] who have come. So they are not getting qualification. So what they want us to do is that they want to take ourselves and bid. So I'm taking 26% partnership. And complimenting the bids.
And exit commitment would be decided even before we get into -- I mean, even before the asset is come [indiscernible]
This is a bid criteria only [indiscernible] eligibility criteria how much ever have to contribute, I have to contribute at this stage. Later, I may [indiscernible] that kind of.
No, no. So I want to understand, I mean, let's say, whenever you decide to kind of exit, the 26% that is with you and you want to sell it to the other partner, right? The exit value will be decided beforehand or it will be done at the time when the project is complete, you have COD in place and...
We are discussing that only. We want them that way -- what I'm saying I'll come as a partner, but I may not be able to do major portion. If we see also, you may give my name and I mean I can give at the time of giving it, but later after my completion of the project, final completion of projects, I may hope to get back by [indiscernible] and then quit. So which is the [indiscernible] industry which they are offering or the time of that valuations they do and realistic also, they do and then they will do some sort of NPA calculations to get out of it.
And sir, on the NPC...
Which carry [indiscernible] for the company, which we would like to close upon.
If you get the EPC business, that is the only target which I'm [indiscernible] it now.
And sir, second was on this NCC arrangement that you have, how would we decide, I mean, who would get to keep the UPC parts or let's say, I mean if there's a project in the market and you both want to have that project. I mean there could be a situation wherein NCD would say, I want to keep it and you could also -- I mean, there could be a situation with you where you say, I mean, I want to keep it to how would you decide because you said we'll decide beforehand and which is now accordingly being structured where in [indiscernible] own majority and I'll get to keep and wherever MCC decides to -- decide it wants to have the EPC, they will take the majority. But there could be some sort of disagreement, some projects within -- I mean, if you move are interested, how would the arrangement work there?
So what we say, we have -- that -- [indiscernible] I'll tell you an example with the [indiscernible] project. There are 3 packages in it, the [indiscernible] metro, which we are now placing on [indiscernible] this month -- coming months. So there -- this is in 1 project [indiscernible]. If within 2 projects, 1 will be done by NCC, one will be done by [indiscernible]. I'm just using my project. This is my project so that [indiscernible] like that. .
Okay. Okay. Okay. Sure. And sir, I missed your comment on the irrigation. I mean if you could help me understand when do you expect the 600 specially for the package for -- Because, I mean, the last part of this is certified, which essentially means -- I mean the government lay acknowledge the payment is due. When do we expect this money to kind of come to us? And how would this shape up our pace of execution and irrigation projects because the money has been stuck for a while now.
Yes, [indiscernible] we have given as a [indiscernible] -- We are not repeating the payments, please make us to get the payment along with the interest. And so we have already given the growth or bidding that [indiscernible] day.
[indiscernible] what happened -- so a discussion with the department, saying that the [indiscernible] loan, which are there now that is not active. So whether they are going to make a taxi or whether they are -- they will pay from their own budgeted allocation, which has to be decided by the current government, I think they will -- they said after the elections, we will try to resolve this. That's what we -- but however, we could not wait for so long time, we've been waiting for 1.5 years now. So we [indiscernible] because it's a huge amount that we cannot take it for that.
And since we've taken them to the code, does it mean, I mean, the work would stop now? Or how would this work? I mean we still have INR 1,000 crores...
Actually, there according to the [indiscernible] which now we are continuing only, we have not stopped it. But we are just waiting for the decision to come out from the government in Telegana on the [indiscernible] profits.
Sure. Sir, I have one more. I mean, can I ask or can I -- I can come back in the queue if you want.
Go ahead [indiscernible]
Just one last, I think Venk, sir in opening remarks said, I mean, we are expecting some INR 2,000 crores, INR 3,000 crores with order in by June itself, which is a DM almost there. I mean is it fair to assume, I mean, there is some project wherein I mean [indiscernible] to kind of get that project increase, which is why you would commit INR 2,000 or INR 3,000 crores by June. And is it a volume, I mean, this is -- I mean, we have some -- I mean, you did some sort of arrangement with someone who has been able to manage the success with some project at MSRDC, which is why you're confident that.
[indiscernible] there are under discussions with the other players who have got take that back-to-back contract to [indiscernible] it because I am also not having the the qualification to bring into that MS RBC because they were asking extra highways completion. So haven't done any extra area as of now, only that the greenfield expresses [indiscernible] I'm doing it are not completed. So they are on the around 50%, 60% only the program. So once that is until open, I'm also timing if they give us a back-to-back [indiscernible] of the contract, at least 40%, 50% of the certificate official that it won't get it. So that's where I want to work as a support that also for this.
So we have been under discussion with various players.
The recently only 3 days ago, they opened the tender. They have announced the L1 and all. So I think discussions are going on. I think we concluded, I think we will definitely will come back to you.
[indiscernible] I told next quarter, not [indiscernible]
Yes, sorry, next quarter. And how could the margins be different with these MSRDC projects because these will be subcontracts, let's say, compared to when we go in there.
All the margins are a little bit diluted, sir. There's no doubt in that. Actually, this one I want to do for a company's future because now the time is going to be for expertises only. You might have seen other anilides they are doing anyway and all the major cities that are being connected with expertise globally, they are now planning. So I think it's better twice to do one project under common also. If you get the experience that is going to be further rating for us. So I think there be added advantage to the company for retail participations.
The next question is from the line of Mohit Kumar from ICICI Securities. .
My question is on the -- again, the cube tie-up. Is it a blanket tie-up? Are you going to evaluate each and every project, which is there in the -- for the bidding? Or is it for the few selected projects which you're looking for? And is it fair to assume that you look only for the Southern based project, not Japan, India list.
So actually, the [indiscernible] really would like to restrict myself to the other part of India. Maybe , UP, Bihar also considering [indiscernible]
[indiscernible] far of India, not interesting because there are also likely projects could come up, but the traffic regularities are very heavy there and the season, working season is very [indiscernible]. So delivering timely also that are difficult in there. So rest of the areas, we can think of that. But before first present is given part of India so that we have [indiscernible]. .
Sir, I believe the hires we're looking to bid for each and every project, right, [indiscernible]
I definitely there they said, but decision is, we will give you defer, let me see [indiscernible]
[indiscernible]
We will identify the project repayment, and that project will be excluded with us also.
Okay. Understood, sir. And sir, what is the BOT pipeline as you see today? Is it fair to say it's around INR 35,000 crore worth?
Yes, I have been around -- we have collected almost around 12 projects. 12 projects we have selected, about all 2,000, 3,000 ranging from that actually. There are a couple of projects on 1,000, 1,050 [indiscernible]. But most of them are the [indiscernible] INR 2,000, 3,000 -- even INR 4,000 crores project also [indiscernible] But I'm not as able so I may take a crop partner. And all the order book, it is only the question that, okay, there's 1 project, it is INR 3,000 crores, INR 3,500 crores starting out most of the problems.
And my last question on the solar opportunity, how do you think about EPC solar? Is it going to be a big part of your your pipeline or you are looking at very, very, very very few projects that will not contribute meaningfully the top line? Or why I'm asking this question because solar EPs the margins will be between single digit, right? .
They actually have participated to 3 tenders, they were disasters. Actually, as somehow we managed to get on to a tough go. But when it is done with the auction opportunity in reversion that the action we were [indiscernible] the major thing. And the prices they pricing -- not even single-digit property there. So I think a little bit bigger league is going to help in this what I'm thinking now.
Understood. So you got [indiscernible] the way we selected.
[indiscernible] what is running on that.
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Varani from Avendus park.
My first question is on the FY '24 adjusted revenue EBITDA flat. Can you tell me that? Like adjusted for all the claims, one-off impairments everything. So can you give me the FY '24 revenue, EBITDA and PAT [indiscernible]
So FY '24 is you say revenue, revenue will be actually INR 3,955 crores, and EBITDA is INR 690 crores and percentage is 17.4%, and EBITDA INR 573 crores. And PAT will be INR 440 crores.
And when we are saying that we'll achieve a flat kind of performance in FY '25 revenues, we are talking about this INR 3,955 crores base.
Yes, yes, correct.
And margins would be lower than 17.4 achieve in FY '25 .
Rosmarin and based on what are the projects we are getting So existing projects are there even new hand project. It is -- we have coated a little bit aggressive to get these 3 new HAM projects. So definitely, to maintain that even 20% margin is really challenging. But our guidance is between 15% to 16%, definitely will be able to deliver.
Okay. Okay. My last question is on the BOT projects. Can you refresh us on the -- some of the important parameters on BOT like in the earlier stage, we used to remember the qualification criteria will be based on network, the completely exited after few years -- so what are the now parameters which are important like that, they have they changed? Or are they similar?
Because this model concession agreement actually is to get actually to be sent offer the comments, but still it has not been finalized actually. So once the segment is going to be finalized. So definitely, we can able to tell what is there and old one and new one. So as of now...
Broadly, it may be 25-year concession period.
That's dependent on the project how they are seeing some some 20 years. Definitely, it is not like hand bookings. It will be 20 and [indiscernible]. So they have given some relation, payment also. So the differences are there actually, but it is yet to be -- they are per-theater comments from all stakeholders. Once this come in will come and it really finance, then we will come back to [indiscernible]
And qualification is based on for the highest revenue share, how will it be this time?
Definitely [indiscernible]
It's the same.
It is the same on [indiscernible]
Yes. And the exit will be after 1 year or 3 years? Is it by the [indiscernible] developer?
That is -- It has not -- [indiscernible] document is not compared in public domain. It is just only the -- they've asked for the coming especially.
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of on Ankita Shah from Elara.
What is the time line expected for the receivables that have been [indiscernible]
[indiscernible] that the new government is that to decide on the [indiscernible] are, I think the [indiscernible] things. So whether they're going to resolve the [indiscernible] thing with the loan thing with the brands and then something government or they will allot from their budget, which the decision is yet to be taken after the election only.
So we are waiting a literally for the [indiscernible] to come out.
Okay. Any other large receiving apart from this in the recent [indiscernible]
Large receivables, there's nothing. No pending is only is [indiscernible]
Other than this, actually, he receivables are there around INR 695 crores, but that we are doing the debt because as of March, also, we are having a sufficient cash flow based on our cash flow requirement at the current level, we will rather any. But that the hand receivables is not a challenge.
Okay. And any claims or existing further are you expecting [indiscernible]
There is a few places, which we are expecting them under we are tariffs. There have been some deferment with I acetates as they are not supposed to put the award issues. But in a few of our projects like in which is and model Telegana project. They have said that they have said certainly which was not reasonable, so we will cut down. So the cutting down, we have not accepted if the result, I think the legal division is doing it very differently. How can you touch when it was not asked to touch the award issues .
Once it is [indiscernible] awarded by an expert agency like [indiscernible] tribunal. So there even in some places that [indiscernible] which I'm talking about single bank is also -- We won the case in single bench also. Now it has been the double bench court. So once these issues are there, they cannot go into challenging the award portion, which they're doing that way we are not accepting that. I think the legal division is after that. to resolve with the technical division. If it is a result, if you may get it or otherwise, we will get through the court sector. So except that I think there is not much.
There are small claims from [indiscernible] is there and [indiscernible] 18 results. Around [indiscernible], that is there in the court only, [indiscernible] we are not getting -- we are getting from court maybe.
When AS-15 [indiscernible] projects, further, we have signed a supplementary agreement and around our portion is around INR 70 crores that we will get in this coming quarter. Another AS-18 and [indiscernible] that will -- we are not accepted, and we have gone for the court. .
The next question is from the line of [indiscernible] Hawa from [indiscernible] Company.
On the railway sites, can we expect something to happen soon or will that also take time? And from your experience with solar, do you mean to say that most people are bidding at negative margins as there are no margin [indiscernible].
Acquiring do we level no margin at this guidance, whatever the bids had examined, literally no margin [indiscernible]
Okay. And about the railway, sir?
Is actually seen but we are now placed on 1 bid, I think. Another bit we are going to pay in coming couple of months. That was -- there was also a little bit aggression that I have seen.
So I mean do we now have on the old policy of [indiscernible]
And going for orders at all costs and will you still maintain the discipline that you have shown over so many years? .
As of now, we were trying to maintain our difficulties, but I think the new market is speaking every area different lessons because of that last a lot of that city that has been in the phase. So definitely, there is a little aggression is there in this.
Unless if we cut down a little bit margins like 2% to 4%, definitely, it may not be possible for you to win [indiscernible] at all. We have taken some calls by this period of successful in that [indiscernible] and [indiscernible]. And going forward, we would like to cut down our margins by 3% to 4% I think.
[indiscernible] to turnaround equipment [indiscernible]
You are not audible sir.
The next question is from the line of Vinit from Investec.
Sir, I just wanted to clarify that we are not eligible for any excess [indiscernible] projects?
Not eligible for...
Bidding for any expressway projects?
Actually NHA is asking any special criteria for expressway, but the limit DC they they need only express ways to be done.
Okay. So does that mean that we are not completely out of the race for any state government expressive projects, but it will depend on a case-to-case basis. depending on whatever the terms of the bidding or?
Yes.
The next question is from the line of Shikha Doshi from Axis Securities.
I would like to ask what is the CapEx that you expect for FY '25? .
At this year, will be around INR 80 crores of CapEx because it definitely further -- for '25, it is based on when we are getting this project actually. As of now, the CapEx requirement is not there only a regular CapEx we have to incur. But I suppose we are getting some mid projects actually immediately. So definitely, the CapEx going to be there, but we are expecting somewhere around INR 100 crores to INR 110 crores will be there actually. .
Okay. And sir, that around -- could you give an approximate amount that you're expecting from this [indiscernible] FY '25? .
Right. You asked you, sir, we are right to sign only 1 agreement as of now. So we are expecting around INR 70 crores out of that. So right now, one is there, which we are expecting in this year and other things anyway, we have gone to the court actually. So that when it will come depends on the outcome from the court proceedings only.
That is expected in the first half or the second half of the year? .
Mostly in first half because we are already signed the agreement. So we expected in the first half it would come. .
As there are no further questions from the participants. That will be the last question for the day. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Yes. Thank you,. Thank you all for joining us on this call. Please reach out to our Investor Relations Consultant and Strategic Growth Advisors are us directly should you have any further clarification. We can now close the call. Thank you. Thank you very much.
Thank you. On behalf of KNR Constructions Limited. That concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.