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Jupiter Wagons Ltd
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Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Jupiter Wagons Limited Q2 and H1 FY '25 Earnings Conference Call hosted by Systematix Institutional Equities. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded.
I now hand the conference over to Mr. Sudeep Anand, Systematix Institutional Equities. Thank you, and over to you, Mr. Anand.
Thank you, and good evening, everyone. Thanks for joining us today for Q2 and H1 FY '25 Earnings Call of Jupiter Wagons. On behalf of Systematix, I would like to thank the management for giving us the opportunity to host this call. Today, we have with us Mr. Vivek Lohia, Managing Director; and Mr. Sanjiv Keshri, CFO. Now I'll hand over the call to the management for their opening remarks. And after that, we can open it up for Q&A. Thanks, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Sudeep, for the introduction. Good evening, everyone. Thank you for taking the time to join this earnings call. I trust you have had a chance to review the materials that we shared on Friday. Jupiter Wagons Limited continues to make progress in strengthening its leadership position, guided by innovation, strategic expansion and a steadfast commitment to enhancing value for all our stakeholders. This quarter has been marked by some meaningful achievements that affirm our vision of growth and diversification across our businesses.
On a consolidated basis for Q2 FY '25, our revenue from operation reached INR 1,00,904 lakhs, reflecting a year-on-year growth of 14.8%. EBITDA for Q2 FY '25 stood at INR 13,945 lakhs, marking a 15.5% increase year-on-year with an EBITDA margin of 13.8%. Our profit after tax or PAT reached INR 8,936 lakhs, reflecting an 8.9% increase year-on-year with a PAT margin of 8.8%. Revenue from operations for H1 FY '25 came in at INR 1,88,890 lakhs, which marks a year-on-year increase of 15.7%. EBITDA for the first half of FY '25 reached INR 27,613 lakhs, a significant increase of 27% compared to the same period last year.
This has resulted in an improved EBITDA margin of 14.8% (sic) [ 14.6% ], up from 13.3% in H1 FY '24. Our profit after tax or PAT stood at INR 18,125 lakhs, marking an impressive 25% (sic) [ 25.1% ] year-on-year increase. Our PAT margin also improved to 9.5%. As of September 30, 2024, our order book stands robust at INR 6,64,336. In line with Jupiter Wagons strategic road map, we have taken several steps during the quarter that will not only broaden our offerings, but also position us at the forefront of some of the more exciting growth vectors within the mobility landscape.
Allow me to take you through some of the key developments. Firstly, through our wholly owned subsidiary, Jupiter Electric Mobility, we completed the acquisition of Log9's advanced battery assets, which specializes in cutting-edge battery technologies, tailored for electric trucks and railway battery solutions. This acquisition is beyond expansion of our portfolio. It means ownership of the underlying technology which serves to strengthen our offerings. We first partnered with Log9 in 2022 to increase the technology for our electric LCVs offering, which unveiled at the Auto Expo in Jan 2023.
Thereafter, JEM and Log9 have already piloted battery products with Indian Railways, recently winning a Vande Bharat order in partnership with Siemens. This acquisition includes Log9's engineering teams and a state-of-the-art production facility in Bangalore, positioning JEM to produce batteries in-house, especially for -- to strengthen JEM's role in India's electric mobility landscape and adds crucial battery solution to offerings aimed at the Indian Railway segment too.
In addition, our growth expertise in battery energy storage system, BESS, has unlocked new market opportunities, both within and across international borders. Demand is growing rapidly for these storage solutions, particularly in storage energy applications where they play a crucial role in managing power storage and distribution and in data centers where reliable backup power is essential. We have strategically positioned ourselves to meet this demand by continuously investing in best capabilities, allowing us to offer advanced sustainable energy storage solutions to our clients and support India's clean energy goals.
Our commitment to rail infrastructure, a sector foundational to our heritage remains steadfast. To reflect our enhanced focus on domestic production, we have rebranded Bonatrans India Private Limited as Jupiter Tatravagonka Rail Wheel Factory Private Limited. This rebranding marks a significant milestone, aligning with the ambition to become a leader in India's rail wheel manufacturing industry. We will invest a substantial INR 250,000 lakhs to establish a new state-of-the-art facility in Orissa, which will expand the annual capacity from 20,000 to a projected 100,000 forged wheelsets.
This expansion not only supports India's ambitious rail infrastructure projects, but also strengthens our ability to supply quality domestically produced rail components, reducing the reliance on imports. We are making strategic investments in developing new foundry to support our wagon manufacturing business. The demand for freight wagon is increasing, and our foundry will bolster our production capacity, ensuring we can meet the market needs.
Importantly, this will also help us to scale up non-wagon segments, which include safety systems, track components, electric commercial vehicles and high-speed brake systems. These complementary segments are on track to become a core part of our business, and we anticipate that non-wagon revenue will contribute approximately 50% of our revenue within the next 4 years. This balanced diversified approach is a testament to our strategic vision for sustainable and profitable growth. Thank you for your unwavering support, as we build a stronger, more sustainable Jupiter Wagons for the future. Now we can open the floor for Q&A.
[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from the line of CA Garvit Goyal with Nvest Analytical Advisory LLP.
Sir, can you clarify the number of wagons sold during the first half of FY '25? Is the company on track to meet the annual target of selling over 10,000 wagons? Or has this target has been impacted?
Yes. So in the first 2 quarters, we produced roughly about close to 4,100 wagons. And we are very confident of achieving our target -- we have given a target of about 10,000 wagons. So we are very confident that we will achieve a number which is close to the 10,000 which we have targeted.
Understood. And sir, further considering one of our peers like Texmaco, they had some lower wagon sales than our company in FY '24. But if I'm looking at H1 number, they sold almost 5,300 wagons. So is there any indication like we are losing on our market share to them?
Not really, Texmaco recently acquired Jindal Rail so that number which you are seeing is addition of the Jindal Rail numbers on the Texmaco numbers. So -- and it is basically 2 quarter numbers which they have added together. So as such, there is no major impact. And on the contrary, if you look at the private market, our -- we are gaining strength every quarter. So I think we are, by far, the leaders in that segment and continue to maintain our market share. And whatever projections, which we have made, we are very confident that we'll achieve the same.
Understood. Sir, secondly, could you also provide an update on the commercial vehicle segment? Like earlier, we were saying production will begin in Q3, and we will be able to sell 500 vehicles this year. So is that time line aligned?
Yes. As I mentioned earlier, we had mentioned Q3 end. So we are very confident that we will be launching the vehicle by Q3 end. If there is a slippage, it will be maximum by a week or 2 weeks. Beyond that, we don't expect any kind of slippage. So -- and we are again very confident that in the calendar year, we will be selling -- our numbers will be above 1,000 vehicles.
All right. That means it will be not 500, it will be 1,000 vehicles, right?
Yes, for the calendar year.
For the calendar? Okay. Fine. Got it. And sir, lastly, considering that the company mentioned to achieve the revenue target in line with [ INR 4,500 crores to INR 5,000 crores ] in earlier con calls. So is that number intact considering the kind of number we reported in H1, like it is close to INR 1,800 crores revenue in H1? So are we in line to achieve somewhere between [ INR 4,500 crores to INR 5,000 crores ] this full year?
I -- honestly, I don't -- in terms of the -- I wouldn't -- see we are very clear in terms of the number of wagons, and we are confident that whatever projections which we have given in terms of wagon sales and for the other products, we'll achieve our target. Now how much does it convert to revenues? Honestly, I cannot give you a concrete number right now. But we -- whatever we have projected, the company will be achieving its targets.
Can we say like H2 is going to be way better than H1?
Yes, definitely. And that is the trend in the -- because H2 -- not only in the railway, across all industries that we look, H2, because of less disruption due to monsoons and then H1, there was also elections. So none of those challenges will be in H2. So definitely, H2, we expect numbers to be much, much stronger.
Next question comes from the line of Kartik Patel an individual investor.
Congratulations and well done, sir, for giving us very good numbers this quarter as well. Sir, a couple of 2 questions I got to ask you. Sir, this time, company shows a little bit extra expense. So can you please focus a little bit on that? Like what type of like company got expense like through like, what you call, through the Log9 acquisition or something like that, sir? And how much production we can start from this quarter, Q3, for the wheel business?
Yes. So Mr. Patel wheel business, as I've told, we are already -- the business is up and running. What we are now setting up is the complete forge line for full backward integration and also increasing capacity. That is a 3-year project. So -- but however, we continue to expand the existing business. So if you see our results every quarter on the wheel business, the numbers are growing, and we are very confident about that business.
And you will see definitely a quarter-on-quarter increase in the wheel production as our capacities go up. Our order books there are very robust, not only from Jupiter Wagons, but from Indian Railways also and other metro players. With regard to the expenses, honestly, right now, because I -- first of all, I did not understand in terms of what expenses are you talking about. So very difficult for me to elaborate on the same. But per se, we don't see any extraordinary increase in any kind of expenses, but maybe you can write to us substantiating what you're exactly looking for, and then we'll reply to you.
Next question comes from the line of Parvez Qazi of Nuvama Group.
So a couple of questions from my side. First, with regards to the brake business, what would be the current order book of that business? And how do we see the prospects of that business going ahead, especially with regards to Stone India?
Thank you, Mr. Qazi. So with regard to Stone India, we expect -- so our pantograph has now been approved by Indian Railways, and we expect to deliver the prototypes by early next year. Besides that, our fleet -- our brake systems of fleet in Stone India, we're expecting licenses to be renewed before end of this year. And next year, we expect very strong numbers starting -- because as you are aware, that we have a huge captive order, plus the demand from railways also very strong for the brake system.
So definitely, we are looking to supply at least anything between 8,000 to 10,000 brake systems in the next financial year. But again, it depends on how fast we can ramp up production. So that is the target with which we are going ahead. Again, it's subject to how fast we can ramp up production. I think once the approval comes, we'll be able to give you -- by beginning of next year, we'll be able to give a much more concrete numbers in terms of the production capacities.
Again, in our KOVIS and DAKO JVs, we have very strong order books. In KOVIS, we have order books of brake discs of more than -- right now, more than 16,000 brake discs which we have to supply to Indian Railways, and we are constantly ramping up production. Also, we have a good order book for supply of axle boxes to the European market there. And on the DAKO side, we had an order for about 350 brake systems from Indian Railways, out of which we expect to complete that order in the current financial year. And next financial year, also, we have placed very strongly in the tenders. So we expect orders of 500-plus brake systems for the next financial year. This is for the LHB passengers.
Sure. My second question is with regards to the wagon business. So while obviously, the production has ramped up, but overall, for Indian Railways, we have not really seen too many orders in H1. So based on our discussion with railways, how does the pipeline look? Do we expect substantial ordering in H2? Or do you think ordering will come only in FY '26?
And the second part of the question is also if you could give some details on how is the wagon order from the private sector?
So see as far as we are aware, railway has a very strong order pipeline for wagons. Now again, we don't know whether those tenders will come in this quarter or the next -- in H1 of next financial year. Again, we are not purview to that. But definitely, railway, as whatever we can understand, there is a very, very strong demand from Indian Railways and they are proposing to order a substantial number of wagons.
As I've told you, our private order book remains very strong. I think last week itself -- we cannot disclose the customer as of now. But last week itself, we have received an order for about 10 rigs from a single customer. So I don't see -- I think compared to last year, our private order book for private rigs orders have increased from last financial year, if you look at the numbers. But honestly, final -- the exact numbers, I'm not [indiscernible] now. So it will be very difficult for me to comment.
Next question comes from the line Akash with Dalal & Broacha.
So Vivek, sir, my question was mainly on the order book wherein for the last past 6, 7 quarters, we have seen that it's in the range of INR 6,000 crores to INR 7,000-odd crores. So if you could guide us a bit on the pipeline, right, from wagons to brakes to wheelsets, how it can pan out? And where do you see the order book going in, let's say, next 2 years, let's say, FY '26, '27 as well?
So we are very comfortable with the current order book because this -- right now, order book is basically, if you look at it forward going, it's about 18 months of execution. So again, we are not looking to pile up substantially higher wagon order books beyond that because then that will be subject to a lot of LDs and things. So we expect the private -- whatever we supply, as I have told you, we are getting the replacement orders on the private side.
Railway side, we expect a substantial tender to come up very shortly in the next 4 to 5 months. And I think that is as per our expectations because -- and I think ours and the industry's expectation as we don't want -- because there are now substantial orders which we -- from Indian Railways also, which we are now delivering. So from our side also, if any order comes -- any tender which comes late this year or beginning next year, that will be, I think, more welcomed by the industry. So we don't see a challenge.
As I've told you, for FY '25, our order books are completely full. And FY '26 also, honestly, we don't see any challenge, as we are very confident on railway coming out with a substantial order book. On the brake side, as I've clearly mentioned that for Stone India, we are expecting approvals in the next 1 or 2 months for the freight brake systems. And it is -- I think in terms of order books, it's not a challenge. There's a substantial demand both from Indian Railways as well as we ourselves are looking at producing more than 10,000 wagons in FY '25.
So we don't see a challenge in terms of order books. Basically, now we are focusing on ramping up productions there. Similarly, as I've already mentioned in the DAKO JV itself, our focus is right now to -- again to strengthen the supply systems. Again, railway has projected a demand for close to 6,000 LHB coaches in all the 3 of their production facilities. They'll be manufacturing in FY '26 and FY '25.
So we don't see any challenges in terms of demand there. It is a question of how fast we can ramp up our supply chains. So I think all the 3 JVs combined in FY '25, we are looking at turnover of -- as I've already mentioned earlier, our numbers will be about anything between INR 300 crores to INR 500 crores of revenues we expect from all the 3 JVs.
That's for next year, sir?
Yes, in FY '25, I'm talking about.
In FY '25, we'll be doing somewhere between INR 300 crores to INR 500 crores...
[ In FY '26 ], these numbers will be there.
Okay. And sir, from -- I mean, is it safe to say that from here, I mean, like you said, the order pipeline on all components and wagons as well remains strong. So from here for the next 2 years, can we grow comfortably at a 20%, 25% CAGR?
Yes, definitely, our target next -- this year, we -- as I've told you, we are focusing on supplying close to 10,000 cars. And next year, we are looking to ramp it up to about 12,000 cars. So yes, I don't think -- and our wheel businesses, we are increasing capacity. So by FY '25 end, our capacity will be close to about 25,000 wheelsets. When we took over the company, it was close to about 10,000 wheelsets. So from there, we are ramping it up to 25,000. So, yes, I don't see a challenge in delivering on the growth numbers.
Got you, sir. Just one last question on -- why is this Stone India approval taking so much time because you were expecting it somewhere in the start of this year, right, in April?
So we were not expecting in the startup. We've already -- always mentioned that it will be by end of FY '25. We have clearly mentioned because you have to understand that we took over a company from NCLT. We had to -- the complete infrastructure had to be revamped. We had to order all the machineries fresh and then apply for the licenses.
Next question comes from the line of [ Karandeep with Nvest Analytics ] Advisory LLP.
So sir, my question is we grew by 15% top line in H1. I want to understand from you how this full year looks like in terms of revenue growth?
Yes. Sorry, I could not follow your question. Can you again repeat it? I think your voice got muffled a little.
We grew by 15% top line in H1. I want to understand from you how this full year looks like in terms of revenue growth?
As I've told you, we are expecting to do wagon numbers of close to 10,000 this year. Last year, our numbers were 8,000. And plus this year, again, revenue will come from the wheel business, which was not there last year. The brake business in both the DAKO and the KOVIS JV, we have started delivering. So this year, the overall revenue numbers will definitely be higher than last year numbers.
Next question comes from the line of Anoushka Roy with Trade Brains.
So my question is that in your presentation, I read that the company is expecting a strong growth in the non-wagon business. So I just want to understand what are the plans of the company to scale and integrate this segment? And secondly, what kind of revenue growth can we see from these segments?
Yes, thank you. So the Log9 acquisition, again, was one of the strategic investments for the same purpose. Definitely, we are very, very bullish on the auto segment. Post launch of our commercial EV, I think this year, we -- as I've told you, we expect very strong numbers there. We are launching with the 1-tonne payload truck with a 2.5-tonne GVW. And we expect to launch 2 other trucks in higher payload, 2 tonnes and 3-tonne payload within FY '26.
So I think that business is going to be very strong for us. And the battery business was a very, very key strategic acquisition because, as you know, in any electric car battery makes up close to about 50% of the cost of the vehicle. So from that end and the technology end, that was a key acquisition. Again, our container business continues to grow very strongly. We have started even exports to North America.
The railway and the battery segment, as I've told you, we have got orders from -- for Vande Bharat. We expect further order books from Vande Bharat this year itself. Beyond that, we are the only company, who have undertaken trials on the passenger coaches. So there, we expect order books to come in FY '26. Our brake business, I have elaborated in terms of the kind of performance which we are looking in FY '26. We expect numbers from anything between INR 300 crores to INR 500 crores of revenues from that business.
Our wheel business, as I've told you, from 10,000 wheelsets, will be ramping up to close to 25,000 wheelsets in this financial year. So the entire impact of that capacity will be visible in FY '26. And I think by FY '27, our complete wheel forging line will -- we can start production, especially in the axle line, which will be followed by the wheelset. So I think those -- again, those revenues will also get added up plus exports are going to start to the European market. So definitely, the growth map is very strong. By FY '27 end, as we have clearly mentioned that we expect our non-wagon revenues to be close to as much as about 50% of our total revenue book.
All right. And sir, one more question I had. So could you just give us some kind of guidance in terms of -- I mean, I think you have already mentioned that what kind of EBITDA numbers are we looking at in H2 FY '25 or '26? And if there is any guidance on the CapEx...
So the CapEx guidance is, I think, very clear, we have already mentioned that going forward, I think the majority -- the substantial CapEx is going to happen on the wheel capacity. We have mentioned that, that will be INR 2,500 cores [indiscernible] CapEx out of -- including GST. So I think beyond that, we don't expect any substantial CapEx in any other businesses.
Most of the other CapEx is -- going forward is going to be the replacement CapEx because on the foundry side, we have already invested in the incremental capacity, which will get commissioned by end of this year. So yes, beyond that, we are not looking at any kind of substantial CapEx from the company.
And sir, what about the EBITDA margins, if you could give some kind of guidance on that, what you're expecting?
So again, very difficult for us to give forward numbers, but what I can assure you that EBITDA margins will continue to remain strong. And as revenues come from non-wagon businesses, you will see some improvement in those margins. But again, we will not be in a position to substantiate on the same.
Next question comes from the line of Khush Nahar with Electrum Portfolio Manager.
So just two questions. Sir, what was the amount that we paid for the acquisition of Log9 assets? And what kind of revenue potential do we see from there from that segment?
We have paid about close to INR 40 crores for the acquisition of that asset. In terms of revenue potential, honestly, a lot of it will be captive as it will basically -- it will be used for the battery systems for our trucks, which on -- if we had not bought Log9, it would have been bought out for us. And again, the margins would have gone to the industry now, which is captured in-house, as I mentioned, that battery systems is close to about 50% of the value of the trucks.
And it's a very, very critical component so -- which is the core technology for any electric vehicle. So it was a very, very critical acquisition for us. Beyond that, definitely, this acquisition helps us in the railway business where we see a huge potential. So railway buys, I think, close to about anything between INR 1,000 crores to INR 1,500 crores of batteries every year, which is the non-lithium ion batteries. And we expect in the next 4 to 6 years that this will get transitioned to lithium-ion battery packs.
So the market is quite substantial. And as I mentioned for Vande Bharat, we are already -- we already have a very strong order book from Siemens, and we expect that order book to further strengthen. And we are also focusing on other businesses with Indian Railways where we expect good order books on the battery side. And again, finally, for the -- container remains to be a strong segment for us and now we are focusing on integrated containers -- battery energy storage solution containers. So I think there also, this acquisition will play a crucial part.
Okay, sir. And sir, for the CapEx that you just mentioned on the wheel capacity, so going ahead, do we plan on taking more debt? Or how will that be funded?
No. Honestly, we don't need to take -- so we have already mentioned the debt, which we'll be taking for that business. I think it remains the same. We don't expect any incremental debt beyond what we have mentioned earlier.
Next question comes from the line of Om Prakash with [ Infosys ].
Recently, there is a maritime infrastructure news regarding the shipping containers. Are you expecting any kind of container orders from Indian maritime portfolio?
Can you please repeat your question regarding -- I understood you're asking regarding container orders, but I could not understand the first part of it.
Regarding the Indian government, I see, they are doubling the capacity of shipping containers. Like did you receive any orders from Indian government?
As a company, we are not focused on shipping containers because that's much lower on the value chain. We are focused on mainly battery energy and data center containers, which are very, very specialized containers and which require a lot of engineering design and certifications. So marine is the area which we are not present in that segment.
Okay. So my second question, sir, like 1,000 EV vehicles you are selling by this calendar year. It is still this December, right, like whether you are selling the vehicles in domestic or exporting to international markets?
It will be mainly domestic and it is FY '26 is when we have mentioned the 1,000 vehicles. It will be mainly domestic.
Next question comes from the line of Rajesh Vora with Jainmay Ventures.
Vivek ji, what percentage of revenue in the first half is from wheels business and likely in next year?
Could you again please repeat your question? Sorry for the same.
Sure. Vivek ji, from the wheels segment, what are the revenue percentage in the first half of this financial year? And what are the expectations for next year roughly?
So first half, I think we did revenues of about INR 160 crores. Again, as I've told you, we are adding capacity. And so in the second half, definitely, these numbers will go up. And this year, we expect to do about close to anything between INR 300 crores to INR 400 crores of revenue. And next financial year, that numbers are going to go up to about close to INR 700 crores.
Wonderful. And I think in the beginning in your opening remarks, you mentioned that 4 years out, you expect half of the revenue from wheels business. Is that correct what I understood?
I think it was to nonwagon...
Nonwagon revenue we are talking about. And this number we are talking about because now we have -- we are doing the CapEx for the backward integration and taking the capacity to about 1 lakh wheelsets. So this is -- the whole capacity will -- it's about a 3-year journey till the time we can set up that complete capacity. So those -- I think those numbers you will start seeing from end of FY '27.
Okay. Got it. And at what point -- what number of EV vehicles that you have to sell to breakeven at Jupiter Mobility?
Again, these numbers, honestly, we are not in a position -- and these are sensitive information, which at this moment, we cannot reveal in terms of what our strategy is.
Sure. No, I understand. I understand. Is there a way to say that can it be profitable in 3 years? Is that a possible to comment?
See, with the -- it's not only EVs, there we are also focusing on batteries and other businesses. I think if you take all the businesses combined, we expect to become profitable very soon in that business.
Next question comes from the line of Akash with Dalal & Broacha.
So sir, I would just like to take your view on the recent acquisition in the industry between Texmaco and Jindal. So would you perceive any impact from that on the industry and on our business as a whole?
No, I don't see any impact because Jindal was already in the -- already manufacturing wagon. It's not a new business, which has come up. So I don't see any major impact in terms -- just that the -- instead of 2 separate companies, the numbers are just got consolidated. Beyond that, honestly, we don't see any kind of -- and Jindal was already competing us -- with us for the -- I think after Jupiter, they were the -- one of the strong contenders on the private side, but definitely, Jupiter is -- we don't see -- honestly, we don't see much of impact from this acquisition.
Understood, understood. So we won't be losing any market share?
No, no.
Second sir, If you could broadly highlight what kind of a yearly CapEx we are planning? So INR 2,500 crores is something as a whole that we are planning for the Odisha plant. But on a yearly basis, if I have to bifurcate the CapEx, how will it go from FY '25 till FY '27?
Again, honestly, very difficult question to answer. It depends on how the project is going to -- how fast the project progresses. So it depends. We have payments on milestones. So I think it's too early right now. Maybe I -- once the work on the ground starts, maybe by middle of next year or third quarter of next year, I'll be in a better position to answer that question for you.
Got it. So any ballpark projections for this year, at least how much CapEx we'll be doing this year?
This year will be about -- all businesses put together will be about INR 500 crores.
INR 500 crores? Okay, okay. Got it. And sir, you were speaking about on the export front. So you have exports to Europe of mainly wagons or what is it, which kind of components?
No, we are talking about brake equipments, which we have already started exports to Europe. Containers, we are exporting to the North American market. And once our wheel facility comes up in Orissa, as we have already mentioned that a substantial capacity will be exported to Europe, mainly to our partners there, Tatravagonka. They are going to be the major consumers of -- for those wheelsets, as they themselves buy close to about 60,000 wheelsets annually.
Next question comes from the line of [ Kartikeya Kumar Pandey ] with Ashika Broking.
Sir, just a small question, you just mentioned about your mobility business to breakeven. So when was that? I did not get that answer.
You're asking of the mobility business. Can you speak some loudly, please?
Can you please repeat your question? We could not get your question?
Sir, you mentioned that your electric mobility business, which has just acquired Log9, when is it going to breakeven? You mentioned some time lines...
No, I did not give any time lines. What I said that we expect -- the question was that will it breakeven in 3 years, to which I answered that we expect the breakeven to be much earlier than that. As it's not only vehicles, there are a lot of other businesses in that, including BESS, data center, then our vehicle business plus the battery supplies to Indian Railways. So the question was that whether we will breakeven in 3 years, our answer was that we expect the breakeven to be much earlier, but again, we cannot substantiate right now in terms of the time lines.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraints, we have reached the end of question-and-answer session. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Yes. Thank you. And in summary, Jupiter Wagons is building a legacy of reliance and forward thinking by committing to substantial practices and continuously adapting to market trends. We are positioning ourselves as a leader not only in railway manufacturing, but also in electric mobility and energy solutions. As we forge ahead, we are committed to delivering excellence for our stakeholders, our clients and the community we serve. Creating a positive lasting impact that will propel Jupiter Wagons into a new era of growth and leadership in our industry.
And again, I would like to thank all the participation. And again, we would -- I would -- my apologies for any further questions which you had. But if you mail us your questions, I assure you that we will revert back to you with all our answers. Thank you again.
Thank you. On behalf of Systematix Institutional Equities, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.