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Just Dial Ltd
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Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Just Dial Limited Q4 FY '21 Earnings Conference Call hosted by Nomura Financial Advisory Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Rishit Parikh. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Ayesha. On behalf of Nomura, I would now like to welcome you all to Just Dial's 4Q FY '21 earnings call. We have with us the founder, CEO and MD, Mr. VSS Mani; and the CFO of the company, Mr. Abhishek Bansal. Without further delay, I would now like to hand over the call to the management. Over to you, guys.
Thanks, Rishit. Hi, everyone. Welcome to Just Dial's earnings call for fourth Quarter fiscal '21. Operating revenue stood at INR 175.7 crore for the quarter, which declined 25.2% year-on-year and grew 3.6% quarter-on-quarter. On a per day basis, revenue during fourth quarter grew 5.9% sequentially. The Y-o-Y drop primarily reflects the impact of lower collections, which we have witnessed over the past few quarters due to impact of COVID-19. With lockdown leaving an impact of COVID-19 abating post the first wave, monetization has been on an improving trajectory in 4Q. 4Q monetization stood at approximately 85% of pre-COVID levels. Due to reasonably healthy year-end collections, before revenue stood at INR 330.3 crore as of March 31, which was only down 1.7% year-on-year and was up 8.2% quarter-on-quarter. Operating EBITDA adjusted for noncash ESOP expenses stood at INR 41.5 crores for the quarter, declining 48% year-on-year, primarily due to lower top line. Sequentially, there has been some decline in margins due to approximately 5% quarter-on-quarter increase in employee expenses, which was partly due to increase in variable payouts and partly due to increments. Other expenses were higher by about INR 4 crores quarter-on-quarter due to INR 1.5 crores increase in advertising spend and about INR 2.9 crore of CSR provisions, which got bunched up in fourth quarter. Our margin profile, I believe, it should be looked on an annual basis rather than just a quarter because certain quarter might have lumpy cost bookings. On a full year basis, if you see, we had a 29% year-on-year drop in top line. Despite that, adjusted EBITDA margin stood at 28.2% for the full year. Our employee expenses, excluding ESOP expenses, were down about 21% for the year. Other expenses were down 48% year-on-year in fiscal '21. Even excluding advertising spends, the rest of other expenses were also down about 15% year-on-year. So overall, on the cost front, we have been controlled those quite well even in this exceptionally tough year. Other income for the quarter stood at INR 15.6 crores, which was impacted due to increase in bond yields during the quarter versus declining yields, which we had been witnessing in TCD quarters and same quarter last year. Consequently, net profit for the quarter stood at INR 33.6 crores. For the full year, we had INR 214 crore of tax versus INR 272 crores of tax last year. Cash and investments stood at INR 1,572 crores as of March 31, 2021, down just 1.2% year-on-year. The INR 220 crore buyback that we concluded during the year, we were effectively able to fund the entire buyback and taxes-related payout of total INR 273 crores via our operating cash flows and treasury gains. Coming to operating highlights, we had curtailed our advertising spend in fiscal '21. During FY '21, we spent only about INR 3 crores to INR 4 crores on advertising versus about INR 65 crores spend in FY '20. In FY '21, bulk of traffic came organically. For 4Q, we had 129.1 million quarterly unique visitors, which was almost flattish quarter-on-quarter if you consider the impact of 2 lesser calendar days in 4Q versus 3Q. Our advertising spend resumed from April '21 in order to promote our newly launched B2B platform JD Mart. Our IPL 2021 campaign has resulted in great branding and awareness among businesses about our JD Mart platform. On JD Mart, we shall be having logistics services enabled in a couple of weeks. Businesses would have 10 to 11 logistics providers to choose from. Payment escrow services, too, shall be rolled out very shortly. Total active database on Just Dial stood at about 30.4 million listings and paid campaigns at the end of the quarter were about 457,000. Now as you all know, India is battling second wave of COVID-19 for the past 6 to 8 weeks, and the impact has been quite severe, like rest of the country, our employees who have been impacted. And the company is taking all measures to support them in these tough times. There has been some impact on traffic and monetization. We are closely monitoring the same. And hopefully, as soon as second wave subsides, recovery should be faster this time. Feb, March, things look very optimistic. March month, in fact, we were at almost 90% of pre-COVID levels. JD Mart traffic also should start gathering traction in the coming months as JD Mart start shifting in Google Search results for B2B search queries. As we speak, 2 million pages of JD Mart have already been indexed. In long term, I think our both JD and JD Mart platforms are likely to be key platforms for SMEs to get online to get new customers and also our services shall enable them to run their business efficiently via use of technology, which is what SMEs require today. With this update, we shall open the floor for questions.
[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Rishit Parikh.
Just 2 questions from my side. First, on the quarter and then second on the B2B side, right? The paid listing addition seems a little weak, despite I think, the collection recovery has been pretty decent for this quarter. Any reason why I think we're still seeing a lot more hesitation from SMEs?Is this largely because of, let's say, some of the business -- some of the SMEs are out of the business? And how should we think about the churn rates in the paid listings now versus what we were at in the pre-COVID levels? So that's first. Second. Could you just help us understand and update on the B2B business? While you mentioned logistics and payments will get rolled out. Could you just talk a little more in detail about one: sales and marketing initiatives, what are we doing apart from IPL. And second, I think on the hiring front, what are we doing from a senior management perspective and how that's shaping up? And is there a timeline sort of that we are putting out when we can call out B2B business separately?
Okay. So firstly, on the paid campaigns. So I think the way to look at paid campaigns would be to look at overall annual basis. So by and large, if we see, annually, we had about 29% impact in top line. Against this particular 29%, about 14%, 15% drop has been due to paid campaigns. And the rest, about 12%, 13% impact has been due to a realization. So campaigns, while this particular COVID first and second wave had a significant impact on SMEs, have been affected to the extent of 15%. As and when things return to normalcy, it should recover. As I mentioned during March month, so March month, we were almost at about 90%, 92% of pre-COVID levels. So largely the number to watch out is my assessment, how is overall revenue monetization, et cetera, panning out. Yes, it will be partly a factor of campaigns versus realization. That will automatically fall in place. Coming to your question on churn rates. During this particular year, definitely, churn rates would have inched higher because certain SMEs would have decided to possibly pause their campaign for some period and then you probably come back into the paid ecosystem. One example, which I keep giving is that even Just Dial as a corporate, right? So we did advertise only -- our advertising spends were down 90% for the entire year, but that does not mean that we have churned out as customer for these Google or the digital side or any mass media platform. So everyone allocates a certain budget to advertising and those budget allocations can see fluctuations based on macro environment. On the B2B side, for -- IPL has resulted in great branding for the platform. Going forward, we intend to divert a part of the spend towards digital campaigns. So typically, as you would have seen with any new product launches, you typically do a mass media campaign and then you possibly get into a sustenance mode. With IPL, we understand that whenever IPL resumes, we would obviously have the option to again sign up, we would have the write-off taking that inventory first. So during third quarter, we might again want to come back for this particular mass media campaign. On the monetization side, we have carved out a team internally, frontline sales executives who will be working on B2B monetization. We have also beefed up our senior management team on the monetization front, there are people who will be solely dedicated towards this particular monetization initiative. As far as timelines are concerned, broadly, the way we look at it is that in the next few months, traffic should start inching up. In parallel, our preparation for monetization is ongoing. And I think in the 2 months, both traffic and monetization should start seeing upward trends. Not to mention that this particular second wave caught all of us of that. We had great plans on monetization in parallel with IPL. Those seem to be sort of deferred by maybe 1 or 2 months. But that's okay. The platform is being built to the B2B player to go for the next 3 years, 5 years perspective.
So essentially you're saying we can start calling out B2B potentially starting 1Q or 2Q. Is that fair?
Yes. So in terms of segregated numbers, et cetera, once next quarter starts, at that point of time we'll take a call on the same.
The next question is from the line of Vivekanand Subbaraman.
Could you help us understand the split between revenue and traffic, revenue traffic and campaigns in the top 11 cities versus the rest of the markets? So that's question one. The second question is with respect to the number of campaigns. So what got impacted more, was it the number of advertisers itself that came down or was it the case that the number of advertisers who are broadly similar to prior years, but the -- but they ran only 1 campaign during the year versus multiple campaigns in prior periods? If you could explain that, could be great.
So firstly, on Tier 1 versus rest of cities. So Tier 2, Tier 3 cities today contribute, say, for last quarter, about 33% to top line and to campaigns about 54% or so. As far as traffic contribution is concerned, that is largely 50-50, 50% traffic comes from Tier 1 cities and rest from Tier 2 and Tier 3. On the campaign front, see, this particular quarter also, we added around 2,500, 3,000 campaigns. In fact, March, what happens is that during the last week of March, since there are bank holidays, et cetera, a part of the collection tends to get filled over to the month of April. So about INR 10 crores worth of collections got spilled over to April. Had that particular collection being booked in March itself, that itself would have added probably 5,000, 6,000 additional paid campaigns. So from that perspective, paid campaigns are trending in the right direction. Yes, there would be certain categories such as your hospitality, retail type of categories, which are still struggling under COVID, they could not even recover post the first wave. So those categories would have seen some impact. So as I mentioned, the campaigns, the way we look at it is that overall campaign impact year-to-year is about 15-odd percent itself.
All right. And is it possible to give more color on the number of advertisers that are there now? Say, it's fine if you give the number for...
Campaign to advertisers, that ratio largely has been in the range of 1.2, 1.22. That has not materially changed.
Right. Understood. Okay. I have more, but I'll come back.
The next question is from the line of Abhilasha Satale from the Dalal & Broacha.
Sir, this overall like active customer base is down 15% on a year-on-year basis. So how much has been the impact on B2B and B2C side? So I just want to understand that how much have we seen the impact on our B2B customer, which is typically around INR 1 lakh last year?
So Abhilasha, while I have not seen the exact numbers, simply because at this point of time, it's the same salesperson who goes and sells to a dentist, to a wholesaler, to a real estate agent. There is no category-wise segregation and monetization at this point of time. But my sense is that B2B drop would have been relatively lesser compared to overall because it's the B2C services such as your restaurants, hotels, wedding-related categories, education institutes, tutorials, which have been severely impacted due to COVID. So that way, my sense is that B2B impact would have been lesser.
Okay. And you mentioned in April, we have already reached 85% of pre-COVID level, right. Sir, that was in terms of the customer this we are talking or in terms of collection?
So fourth quarter, I mentioned that we did about 85% of pre-COVID levels. So fourth quarter, we collected, say, around INR 200 crores as per balance sheet number or INR 210 crores if I were to allocate April 1st week, March and April collection. So that was broadly 90% of our pre-COVID run rate of INR 235 crores, INR 240 crores a quarter.
Yes. Yes. Right. We have seen further improvement in April?
See, April, it is not possible to have improvement simply because the impact of second wave, as all of us know, has been much, much severe. So April, anyway, typically tends to be softer versus March because since we run on April to March cycle. Typically, we have high ticket renewals that are lumpy in March month. And April this time obviously had impact of second wave also. So we are still monitoring how April, May this particular quarter pans out. So we'll have to see the impact as quarter ends.
The next question is from the line of Madhu Babu from Canara HSBC.
So how much of the billing is on the monthly packages and how much is annual as a percentage of revenue?
So overall, about 30% comes via monthly payment and the rest 70% via upfront collections.
So monthly payments would be hit in this 1Q again because of the second wave in a big way?
In fact, monthly payments are not hit that much because monthly payments anyway are recurring in nature, those customers do understand that, okay, whatever they are paying is for a longer duration. Typically, what gets impacted is the new customer signing up because that customer obviously has the option of saying that, "oh, let me not take it right now. I'll take it a month later when I have better grip on my own business."
And second, sir, how is the pricing approach on JD Mart? I mean are we giving any free trial and how is the feet-on-street, again, because there's a second lockdown. So how are we approaching the SMEs to even start interacting and helping them on the catalog, et cetera. So how is that progressing?
So on the feet-on-street bit at this point of time, almost entire workforce is operating from home. In last 1 year, we have been able to educate our feet-on-street to connect digitally, connect online to customers. So they might be connecting via calls, messaging these online mediums, which is also good for us in the long run, pre-COVID customers did have the expectation to see someone physically face-to-face to sign up a campaign, but all of that is changing. For example, now almost about 50% plus payment or 60% payments come via digital mode versus the remaining coming via checks. So that does connect with customers is happening online. Coming to your first question on JD Mart pricing. So we are working on various packages, where we do plan to give 30-day or 60-day free trial to customers. At this point of time, there are 2 teams that are aggressively working on creating digital catalogs. So there's an in-house team as well as there are certain external vendors also helping us do the same. We already have about 35 million, 40 million products as part of catalog with JD Mart listing. And we already have about 400,000 to 500,000 rich catalog on JD Mart platform. So today, if you go and search anything on JD Mart, even if you search for -- you want to buy buffalos anywhere in India, you would be able to find them.
And sir, the review has been mixed on the playstore. I mean so how we were working on the app development. Obviously, these are initial days, but so how are we taking that feedback and...
So reviews from our assessment has been quite positive, so app was rated -- has been rated pretty well. As you launch such a big platform, there tend to be certain teething problems, et cetera, which keeps getting fixed from time to time. In fact, on the JD app side, also, you would have seen the latest update that went live a couple of weeks that, both for Android as well as iOS. So both these particular apps overall are getting good rating, good traction overall. Anyone who has used this particular platform, will spend 5 minutes on the platform, these apps or these mobile sites, websites, they have come out genuinely impressed.
And sir, last one. Because IPL has been stalled, so how the ad spend will go? I mean because last year, we planned a big ad spend for JD Mart go inside of IPL. So now how the payments will span off?
So IPL, the contractual arrangement was based on that we would be billed for whatever inventory gets placed. So IPL ran for 29 out of 60 matches. So almost 45%, 48% of overall deal value will get billed. So that is how it is.
The next question is from the line of Varun Goenka from Nippon Life India Asset Management.
Just some quick clarifications. One, would we continue to do our annual buybacks? Or what is the plan as such?
See last buyback was concluded in August '20. So as I mentioned in my opening remarks, the operating cash flows and treasury gains were sufficient to even fund the entire payout for buyback, the next decision for buyback earliest for the proposal can be earlier taken up in August '21. So at that point of time, we'll have discussions with the Board how we want to go about our capital allocation strategy. The Board and all the stakeholders, obviously, are very clear that they would want us to pursue organic growth-related initiatives, but we do have sufficient cash flows to do even both. So at that particular point of time, we'll take an appropriate decision.
Sure. And secondly, in terms of our product capabilities, I mean, it's an awesome product that you guys have created and full stack, if you could help us view over the next maybe 1 or 2 years, what are the white spaces that you're looking to fill? What capabilities additionally that you're building? Or how are you completing the loop in terms of customer fulfillment or on-boarding anything that logistics or financial side?
Okay. So the way this particular platform is being based is with basic philosophy that, okay, 5 years down the line, we want it to be sort of equivalent of Alibaba in India. What I mean by that is that this particular platform should have 2 themes of revenue. One is subscription revenues, other should be transaction-linked revenues. Today, SMEs do not look at a platform just as an advertising medium. Yes, advertising is at the core, but they also want tools and other things that the platform can provide to help them run their business efficiently, which is why we are incorporating certain additional features such as logistics services, where any SME, as soon as we enter their shipment details, they will have 10 to 12 different logistics service providers to choose from. Similarly, there will be payment escrow services as well. In logistics, transit insurance will be bundled for all the shipments that will take place. At the same time, we are working on integrating financing and insurance-related options as well. So any SME wanting to avail fire insurance, any natural calamity insurance or any other insurance for the business or for even individuals themselves or their family members, et cetera, all those features we intend to have. And same on the financing side as well. On financing, many lending peers want that particular rich information that we have in terms of how long has this particular SME's been in business, is the SME GST-registered or not? What is the payment schedule to Just Dial, which they can use as a property to gauge how much -- whether to lend working capital loan to the concerned person or not. So all these features will ideally result in SME being very sticky with this particular platform. There will be some SMEs wanting to go for subscription plans. There will be certain SMEs wanting to pay a certain percentage of commissions on the transaction side will happen. So platform will cater to all type of SMEs.
Sure. Great. And just to reverse the same question. What do you think will be beyond your core view, but it's probably important for the customer, but it could be beyond your core or beyond your capability?
So there, I think that in all these additional services, at this point of time, what we are thinking is that we would primarily be enablers. We believe there are specialists out there who know, who have expertise in rendering each of these services. Our expertise should come in terms of aggregating all of them in one place and providing our intelligence via data, analytics, et cetera. There could be cases where we might realize that we need to possibly get into operations of some of these services. I'm not saying that we will definitely need to, but that is one area we need to closely watch out for that the service providers with whom we are integrating should be able to give the upgrade user experience to SMEs, booking those shipments on the platform.
The next question is from the line of Pranav Kshatriya from Edelweiss.
My first question is regarding the traffic. If I look at quarter-on-quarter, there is a slight dip in traffic. Can you talk about how the traffic -- I mean, what is the reason for that because we were seeing the overall activity of the people in general, increasing on a quarter-on-quarter basis. So what led to deepen traffic? Second question is, how should we look at the advertisement expenditure for Q1 FY '22 because there will be some IP-related costs. And as I said, that 45%, 50% of that will come in. So how much will be the agent? I mean that tends to be like -- that number used to be INR 35 crores, INR 40 crores a quarter, how that will trend? These are my 2 questions.
Pranav, firstly on the traffic, the traffic largely was flattish quarter-on-quarter. We also have to understand that last quarter had 2 lesser calendar days versus previous quarter. So the 2%, 2.5% sequential drop that you are seeing is primarily due to those particular lesser days itself. So by and large, traffic was flattish. And as I mentioned, that there wasn't much of advertising that happened in this particular quarter. This number, again, the way to see would be that this organic traffic that we are getting is already about 7%, 8% higher versus pre-COVID levels. Whatever impact on a year-on-year basis that we are seeing is primarily due to paid traffic, where we have virtually spent nothing in the entire course of the year. And when those particular digital strength come back as and when popularity of the platform increases due to other mass media campaigns, traffic should start moving upwards plus from end of March, there was this particular little impact of second wave that has started coming in. Though I would say that, that did not impact [indiscernible]. Coming to ad spend. So first quarter, yes, IPL-related spend would get expense. So largely, they should be in the range of INR 48 crores to INR 50 crores or so. This includes all types of advertising spend, including content creation and other related spend. For the entire year, as we had mentioned earlier, that we are planning to almost have double of spend of FY '20, FY '20, we spent about INR 65 crores. So INR 120 crores, INR 130 crores, we have allocated, but we would obviously be judicious enough to see how to allocate this. We have done our mass media campaign. The next step would be focusing on paid traffic plus SPO, Google organic traffic related initiatives. Then as we reach third and fourth quarters, the mass media campaigns could again come back.
If I just have to get a little more detail. So you spent some money on IPL, I mean where we can start seeing its impact? Will it be more on the JD Mart app download or traffic for JD Mart or Just Dial traffic? Where do you think it will start showing up?
So this particular campaign was focused on popularizing JD Mart. So this would obviously have impact on JD Mart app downloads itself, so just to give some brief color pre campaign, we had only about 1,500-odd downloads that were happening. During the campaign, it's touched as high as 20,000 ads, 30,000 a day also on certain days. And the way we evaluated is that my salesperson, whenever they were interacting with any SME pre-IPL, every SME was saying, "okay, what is this JD Mart that you are referring to?" Today, whenever my salesperson talks that the response in 95% of the cases is, yes, yes, we saw that particular JD Mart campaign with Ranveer on IPL. So that obviously would -- it's not just about evaluating how much delta is created immediately in terms of app downloads traffic, et cetera. We would be able to leverage this over next several quarters or even years so to say.
Okay. Great. One more question, if I may. How serious is this lockdown? I mean currently, what are the trends we are seeing in terms of the traffic and the collections. I mean if you want to make this benchmark it to what we saw in Q1 FY '20 maybe -- Q1 FY '21, sorry.
So Q1 FY '21, immediate impact on profit was quite severe. There was about 50%, 55% immediate drop in April last year. This year, traffic has reasonably held up well. So there has been only about 10-odd percent impact on traffic. Monetization, again, April was quite severe. This year, there has been broadly about, say, around 35%, 40% impact versus the March quarter in this particular period. Situation is still evolving. Good thing is certain Tier 1 cities are coming out of this second wave impact, though restrictions are yet to be lifted. So I these particular cases remain low for few more weeks, then recovery should also be faster. My sense is that first wave had a much serious immediate dent, and it took longer for recovery to take place. This year, as far as traffic et cetera is concerned, the impact is muted, there is an impact on monetization, but as and when the second wave subside, monetization should come back with a bang, which is what we were witnessing in from second half of Feb, March onwards. March this year seemed to be a very sort of normal March for us where we were able to do 90%, 92% of pre-COVID level. Pranav, you got your answer?
Yes, yes, that answers my question. Thank you so much.
Abhishek, am I audible?
Yes, you are audible.
The next question is from the line of Prateek Agrawal from ASK Investment Managers.
You talked about adding, for example, logistics as a part of JD Mart and financing and all of that insurance. Now will those be charged services will make something there? Or it will be hard on services to increase the value proposition? And similarly, there are other things that one can do, book restaurants, book to airlines, railways, et cetera. Is that part of the business seeing any significant revenues?
Okay. Can I take this question. I would like to give you a picture about JD Mart. I was trying to speak in the earlier, I had to redial again -- I'm sorry, my name is Mani, I'm also part of the team. So JD Mart, the sole purpose is to be B2B marketplace of India. So whatever it takes, we would achieve it. You have seen our product, it's been well appreciated. There's a big thumbs-up from both the vendor community and the user community. JD Mart campaign also took off very well. The awareness about the product has reached. Now the second level campaign from the company is inviting every B2B business to download the JD Mart app and they get a free catalog as well as free customer leads. They don't have to pay for the lead. They will get 3 customer leads. So whatever they may be paying a competition to be part of, they can just by downloading the app and uploading the catalog, they would get free leads till there is a paid ecosystem takes over, obviously, the paid people will get preference. So there is going to be an aggressive promotion, I said no, B2B means a business buying from another business, which means in both the cases, we would want both the parties to download the app. Preferably, we would want the traffic to come directly through our own app. To make it more attractive, we are launching this scheme of download the app, activate your catalog, get advertising worth probably INR 20,000, INR 30,000 for free, okay? So this is why. Now to make JD Mart to be even more successful, like the likes of Alibaba and all, you kind of plug in payment, escrow payment services plus logistics, the best practice logistics into it, and give it as a complete solution So as we move forward, you will see though many businesses may sourcing via JD Mart, they may want to pay through JD Mart because you're dealing with another party who is not known. So basically, you want to secure. So if you pay, you want to be sure that you get your goods and services. Similarly, the selling party may want to dispatch only to sure about the payment. So we play as a very active role, and we see this as a tremendous scope in the future. Logistics service, without a logistic plug-in, it will be incomplete, any marketplace. And interestingly, B2B marketplaces are also going with complete logistics solution, that is a need of the hour. Now I was wondering to touch about the general mood of enterprise. It just picked up in Feb, last 2 weeks to March, it really picked up. Things seem to be normal. Everything was going on the right track. And then we were hit with the second wave, which is far more severe, it generally dampened the mood of business community as such. Just to explain a bit about the drop in revenue, which is 25% year-on-year. Just as revenue would largely come from non-B2B services and among non-B2B also majority, 80% of it comes from services, actually, okay? We get most of our revenues from B2B businesses, B2C businesses. And 80% of those are services. Most of these services have people go to their setups and get available tickets or the services come to your doorstep and do it. Both these cases were very badly affected by the long term. The severity of these kind of, for example, nobody is going to a dental clinic to get dental job done in the last 15 months, probably 14 months, just out of fear of COVID. Similarly, people were dreading to invite a pest control guy or an AC repair guy at home. So these were the change in scenario. The movement things pick up to normal, you will see just as revenue should bounce back with a lot of far more aggressively as compared to what has been in the past, okay? So lockdown definitely plays a very big impact on the type of revenue that we monetized. There, it will definitely play an impact. So once we conquer over this second COVID wave, and I hope there is no third COVID wave, then things should bounce back to normal, we may even do better than pre-COVID numbers. Okay. So it's always like Abhishek said, it's a mood. If the mood is not good, you don't want to spend on promotions and advertising. We wanted to advertise in IPL for JD Mart because that was a onetime launch campaign. That was awareness creation campaign. So we did it and we got good visibility and good branding, unfortunately, IPL had to be canceled midway, and we got our refunds also from the channels where we have spent it. Now your question regarding JD Mart as a product or any of the new products that Just Dial will launch? Yes, our goal will be to provide the best of the best services and make it world-class products such that we are there making a meaningful -- not a me-too kind of service out there.
Sure. Understood. The other question was on the other services that you have, bookings of various thing airlines, buses, trains, et cetera. What is the outlook there?
In fact, interesting. As we speak, we are launching aggressive download of JD Mart and Just Dial app with 2 pronged strategy. For JD Mart, as I said, it will be like download the app, you get a free catalog and free customer leads. That's the strategy for JD Mart. So we are hoping millions of Indian businesses who download the app and avail the free ad campaign and free leads would have won 3 customer leads. For the B2C, which is Just Dial, Just Dial app. First time ever, we are launching, hopefully, in the next 2 to 3 weeks, we would have launched a Just Dial download the app and avail JD Cash. The JD Cash is like a virtual cash. You can burn it against transacting online on JD, which will include flight tickets, bus tickets, train tickets and all those online digital whatever solutions we provide, you can burn it there. And soon when the lockdown gets over, you will be able to burn this JD Cash also on restaurant, spas and various other establishments. Now in order to earn JD cash, you want to download the JD app. And as you download the app, you get some JD Cash. And if you refer more friends and family to download JD app, for every successful download, you get more JD Cash. And in the process, you can accumulate a lot of JD Cash and which you can spend online on Just Dial or offline with Just Dial vendors. And basically, it's equivalent to cash. And this is what we are working on. And this should give a lot more -- see, important is to, of course, create the awareness and have people to come and transact online. As you know, that we want to get on to an online transactable engine as much as possible going forward. So these kind of instruments would help us.
The next question is from the line of Rishit Parikh.
Just 2 questions from my side, right? One on traffic. I think Abhishek, you mentioned about the app download, right? But if you could just provide a little more color on how the traffic in April, May when the IPL was on? That's one. And essentially, I think, Mani, like you mentioned, right, that from a supplier side, I think we've got enough incentive for them to download the app, with a free catalog and lead, et cetera, right? But how do we sort of attract the buyers to be on the platform? Because that's like the network effect that we could potentially create, right? That's one. And second, just on marketing spend, what is the outlook? Could you just provide a color, excluding the IPL spend? That's one? And what level of cash are you planning to spend with the JD Cash initiative that you just talked about?
See on the traffic, April, May, traffic was just about, as I mentioned, 8%, 10% down versus pre second wave. Now April, May have multiple factors. On one hand, we had IPL running with an aggressive IPL campaign. On other hand, we had the second wave also. So very difficult to differentiate that had IPL campaign not been running, could the drop have been higher or how? On advertising spend, advertising spend, as I mentioned, that we have allocated, say around INR 120 crores, INR 130 crores for the full year. Whatever you plan to do for JD Cash, partly it will be funded via margins that we anyway earn in those particular verticals and the rest would be from the marketing budget, advertising budget that we have carved out for the entire year. So that is our equation.
What is the level of budget, if you can just provide an absolute number?
INR 120 crores to INR 130 crores for the full year.
And that will largely be the IPL expenditure now?
No. So -- okay. So IPL expenditure at this point of time is ballpark in the range of, as I mentioned, INR 48 crores, INR 50 crores. So we do have remaining about INR 60 crores to INR 70 crores for the year left. We could choose to run another mass media campaign. It could be IPL or any other property, as and when IPL resumes in the third quarter. The rest of the budget could get diverted towards digital spend, et cetera. So at the beginning of the year, we had a plan to do primarily spend on IPL for mass media. But now that we have higher budgets for the rest of the year that can get utilized for various other avenues.
I think we had also clearly mentioned that one-off launch campaign will be there for JD Mart, which shouldn't be counted as part of our advertising on a regular basis. So as soon as things get to normalcy, we may have to get our regular advertising up and running. And this one-off campaign, which has been done for JD Mart, that should be not counted as part of the regular ad campaign. And as far as JD cash is concerned, it's neutral, cash-neutral exercise, which is it's -- you share from what you earn or businesses honor your JD Cash because they're getting advantage of a new customer?
Okay. So the bulk of the hit will be on businesses?
Yes. So it's not...
Understood. So we're giving them leads, and that's what gives them this?
Yes. Yes.
Understood. And just a clarification on this. So this is ex of IPL that you're talking about, the marketing spend, right? So if, let's say, tomorrow, in 3Q, if IPL spend come back about INR 50 crores, INR 60 crores additional, which is less, we'll still be spending the regular marketing budgets that we typically talked about?
Yes. I think, last year we didn't spend on anything on advertising. So a year before you can take as a benchmark, and you could probably add 20% to it, which would -- additional 20% of that in terms of spend.
Okay. So another INR 100 crores?
So right now, the focus is a lot to get app downloads and some kind of incentive mechanism, let's see how it works. Hopefully, it goes well. And this should give us this -- interesting thing is you have to get better traffic as much as possible. And obviously, you want to continue your SEO and SEM and other stuff also. Yes, and regular TVC and all that.
The next question is from the line of Keshav Lahoti from Antique Stock Broking.
Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, can you give some broad color about JD Mart, what will be your monetization plan? What sort of revenue you are planning from this, let's say, in the medium perspective in next 3 years? And how you're going to price it compared to your competitors?
Okay. So the way you approach this is, first, to make an impact in terms of product, in terms of comprehensiveness. Hence, you would want to have everybody's catalog out there before even think of an aggressive monetization. There are people who are really wanting leads, and they are the ones who are coming out there and signing up on their own. As you know that we used to get 20% of our revenues from B2B. But a good platform will probably help us monetize better in the long run. But in the short run, it's better to sacrifice a bit of revenue and go all out aggressive in building a great content and kind of make a difference in terms of product out there in the marketplace. So that's going to be a strong focus in terms of pushing this product across to B2B businesses. And whatever happens should be an outcome of this activity in terms of -- so revenue should be an outcome. In the next 6 months, we should push JD Mart as we go-to place for all B2B businesses, including brand manufacturers or whether it's a small time manufacturer or any type of wholesale dealer, industrial product guys, all those kind of things do with B2B should be part of this.
Okay. Got it. Just one more question from my side. This quarter, the other income was kind of half compared to year-on-year and quarter-on-quarter, what was the reason for that?
The treasury, the average duration is approximately around 3 years. So typically, what happens is in quarters where your government deals are going up, there tend to be mark-to-market lesser gain. So this particular quarter from December end to March end, bond deals for our TVC profile were up about 40, 50 basis points. Whereas in the previous quarter and March quarter last year, the reverse was happening because of impact of COVID rates were actually on a decline. So those quarters were having exceptional gains. And this particular quarter, treasury gain was relatively muted. But that, again, as I said, should be looked on an annual basis. So annually, this year, we had about INR 149.5 crores of overall other income compared to INR 140 crores previous year.
The next question is from the line of Sahil Doshi from ITI Asset Management.
Just one question on JD Mart here. Potentially, we have 13 million listing only Just Dial app. Now what kind of listing you'll see a potential is getting migrated to JD now and any timelines of any targets you have at this point of time at -- for year 1, year 2?
So firstly, on the listing side, out of about 30 million listings, 7 million to 8 million listings are sort of universe for JD Mart. That does not mean that those particular listings are getting out of Just Dial. So they will definitely be present on Just Dial as well. These particular listings will have their products listed on JD Mart also. So for example, if you are searching for powder coating machine manufacturers, you will see a list of manufacturers on Just Dial. If you are searching for powder coating machines on JD Mart, for the same manufacturers, think we would have created their product catalog, you will see their products on JD Mart and some products we'll be able to see who the exact seller is. So all your manufacturers, distributors, wholesalers, even retailers for certain type of categories, they would primarily form the universe for JD Mart.
Can you throw some more granular detail, share some more of that in terms of -- do you have any interim targets for the [indiscernible] for the first year when you're trying to build a catalog. How much potential listing are you targeting? And at what stage would it then try and monetize?
So the catalog creation is a two-pronged strategy. One is businesses -- increase the businesses to create their own catalog and maintain it. The other is proactively go and create a catalog through a content enrichment team. So we are doing both. I mean, left to us, probably our wish is like we should have 6 million catalogs is there 6 million listings. So that's how it is. It's about -- you just keep on a keep at it. And at some point, you would have achieved significant progress in it. As we speak, Abhishek, what's the latest number of unique businesses with catalogs.
So we have about 400,000 businesses, which have rich catalog. There are another about 600,000 businesses, which would have, say, fairly rich catalog, those particular catalogs are getting enriched. Overall, on the platform, there are about 40 million products in various catalogs of each of these million listings.
And there are also -- yes, there are also listings which are affiliated to brand manufacturers. So there would be couple of millions who would, by default, have a great catalog because they are selling those particular brands and who have -- we upgraded the catalog.
Sure. That is it. Just a follow-up here in terms of you can quantify the initial 40 -- initial few days of IPL, what is the total download base that we have today? And how many active listings, not in terms of, do you need clients what we have today at this point of time?
Sorry, I didn't get the second part of the question?
How many unique businesses would you have listed at this point of time?
You mean on Just Dial or JD Mart?
On JD Mart. JD Mart.
See JD Mart, as I said that the universe of businesses is around overall 7 million to 8 million for JD Mart out of total 30.5 million listings that we have on Just Dial. And out of those 7 million to 8 million, we are right now in the process of creating their digital catalog. About 85,000, 90,000 of B2B customers would be actually our paid customers as part of Just Dial.
Got it. And in terms of downloads of your app, that too?
The download of app, as I mentioned, that we did touch about 20,000 days sort of average during IPL. I think it is too early to look at that particular number in terms of absolute towards the number of downloads, et cetera. Give, say, a few more months once we have these initiatives rolled out of free digital catalog, free leads for downloading Just Dial app. That is when these numbers should exponentially accelerate. That is when it would be more prudent to actually look at in terms of number of downloads, et cetera.
That was the last question. Due to time constraints, I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Abhishek Bansal for closing comments.
Thank you, everyone, for joining us. In case you have any further queries, please do reach out to us. We will do our best to address. That's it from our side, and stay safe. Thank you so much.
Thank you. On behalf of Nomura Financial Advisory and Securities Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.