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Just Dial Ltd
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Good day, ladies and gentlemen, I'm Harpreet Kapoor, the moderator of this call. Thank you for standing by and welcome to Just Dial Limited Q2 FY '21 Earnings Call. [Operator Instructions].So I would like to now hand over the proceedings to Mr. Rishit Parikh. Over to you, sir.
Thank you, Harpreet. On behalf of Nomura, we would now like to welcome you all to Just Dial's 2Q FY '21 Earnings Call. Today, we have with us the Founder, MD and CEO of Just Dial, Mr. VSS Mani; and the CFO, Mr. Abhishek Bansal.Without further delay, I would now like to hand over the call to the management. Over to you, guys.
Hi, everyone. Welcome to Just Dial's earnings call for second quarter of fiscal '21. Operating revenue stood at INR 167.5 crores for the quarter, which declined 30.9% year-on-year, and grew 3.1% quarter-on-quarter. This Y-o-Y drop was primarily due to lower collections, which we have been witnessing since March 2020 due to COVID-19 impact. With lockdown easing, monetization has been on an improving trajectory. And second quarter collections, while they were down 28% on a year-on-year basis, they grew 41% sequentially quarter-on-quarter. Overall, monetization currently stands at about 75% of pre-COVID levels, which is reasonably healthy, considering the severe impact COVID-19 has had on SMEs.Operating EBITDA, adjusted for noncash ESOP expenses stood at INR 44.7 crores for the quarter, declining 33.5% year-on-year, primarily due to lower top line. However, owing to tight cost controls, we have been able to deliver adjusted EBITDA margin of 32.6% for the quarter.Other income for the quarter stood at normalized levels of INR 26.7 crores. Net profit for the quarter stood at INR 47.3 crores, declining about 38% year-on-year.Coming to operational highlights. Company has curtailed its advertising spend from April '20 to optimize on our discretionary costs in light of COVID-19 impact. Majority of traffic is presently coming organically without any advertising. Organic traffic has recovered very well over the past few months and is growing steadily.On a like-for-like basis, current organic traffic run rate is approximately 14% higher versus the pre-COVID levels, which augurs well for the business. Overall, we had 130.6 million unique users for the quarter, which was down 19% year-on-year but increased 30.6% sequentially. Once we resume advertising, we should be higher versus our peak traffic levels that we witnessed last year.Total active database has now touched 30 million listings, which in itself is a great achievement. Paid campaigns at the end of the quarter stood at approximately 449,000 campaigns.Coming to cash and equivalents, that stood at INR 1,427 crores as of September end. We have completed the buyback of INR 220 crores during the quarter, which was ongoing. With this, we have distributed close to INR 700 crores back to our shareholders over the past 5 years.On the product side, we are quite excited about our new upcoming portals for B2B, JD Mart, which is shaping up well both in terms of user friendliness of platform and content. The product demo videos are available on our website to give you a flavor of what all futures the new portal is going to have.Overall, from our perspective, recovery in traffic has been stronger than expected. And considering the impact of COVID-19 on the economy, we think monetization should catch up with traffic trends in coming months. COVID-19 has definitely accelerated digital adoption, importance of online presence among SMEs and these ships should help our business in the long run.Also, COVID-19 has led us to think of innovative ways of running our business and our margins indicate the kind of efficiencies we have been able to bring in. There's a lot of focus on automation, which should help the organization emerge even more stronger from this pandemic.With this update, we shall now open the floor for questions. Thank you.
[Operator Instructions] The first question we have from Rishit.
Just a couple of questions from my side, right? Now if I look at the paid listing addition in this quarter, it seems a little bit soft. So I just wanted to get your thoughts on the demand trend. And when do we see the recovery coming back to pre-COVID levels of paid listings, which we had was close to about 5.4 lakhs? And just an extension to that question, how do you see the demand trend within the B2B and the B2C space? Wondering if you can provide any color on that.
Rishit, on paid listings addition, see, firstly, our target was that on a monthly basis, we wanted to reach to our pre-COVID run rate. As I mentioned in my opening remarks, COVID-19 definitely has had a great impact on overall economy, especially SMEs. Traffic, obviously, has recovered very well. And our monetization also, we have reached approximately 75% of pre-COVID levels. Initially, we were in fact expecting that second quarter could have been the tough quarter for us, but fortunately considering the recovery in all parameters, second quarter has slightly been better than the first one.So on paid campaigns addition, the good part is that any decline overall has been arrested. There was still addition of about 3,500 to 4,000 campaigns. Going forward, I think in the next few months, this 75% should go back to pre-COVID levels and that obviously should drive growth in paid listings.Coming to demand trend between B2B and B2C, at this point of time, we do not specifically look at B2B versus B2C that separately. As we have mentioned earlier, B2B approximately contributes 20% to our revenues. B2B, I believe, should be less impacted because B2C has hospitality, retail type of sectors, consumer facing sectors, which are obviously much more impacted. Once we have JD Mart, our B2B portal that is launched and monetization on that picks up, that obviously will be the most relevant indicator of demand from B2B sales.
Okay. And just 1 last question before we sort of open up. On the B2B space, while we saw the product, and I think it looks pretty good, right? Just on the more, let's say, selling and pricing side, what are the essential changes that we're making or we're implementing that should probably demonstrate the success of this product? If you could just provide a little more color, let's say on the sales side, let's say on the pricing side, let's say on just bundling some of your other value-add services that you're talking about.
See, on the B2B side -- please go ahead, Mr. Mani.
Yes. So we try to keep the pricing as simple as possible. And also something like a measurable response for the [ -- for demand ]. So there are very interesting features like you get to see a lead, but when you grab the lead only, you get -- the money gets deducted. And there will be 3 types of packages. Each one of them will have different types of features, as the basic package could be as less as INR 3,000 a month. And there could be a couple of other packages, which will give much better features and kind of positioning and perhaps more leads, trust, verified, and all these other features that you have.We're also bundling a state-of-art website with this at the higher value packages. So they not only get a complete comprehensive digital catalog, as you saw in the demo, we also give them a state-of-art website which they can make use of. Until their relationship continues with us and they continue to pay us, they get to enjoy it for free of cost. It's a complete digital solution for them.
[Operator Instructions] So we have a question from Pranav from Edelweiss.
My first question is regarding the unique customers. Sir, can you give some color on how the unique customers have trended in the previous quarter as well as in this quarter because I would have expected some subscribers to actually go away, and they're gradually coming back to possibly pre-COVID level and then growing. So where do they stand versus pre-COVID? That's my first question.
So Pranav, on paid campaigns, you are right. In first quarter, there were certain segments in which due to lockdown, people were not willing to subscribe at all. Now as lockdown is getting eased, those particular customers are coming back. Having said that, as a lot of us on this particular call would -- can appreciate that many of us have still not started stepping out.So in advertising, it does happen that a particular customer wants to have clarity in their particular monetization before they commit to advertising trend, which is what probably explained a few months which are being taken in order to recovery to reach back to pre-COVID levels. In the past also, we have taken it's always the traffic that leads monetization. considering that traffic is coming back, I think it should be just a matter of few months before monetization catches up.
Okay. Just to follow up on that. Is there is a significant variation in the first month -- in terms of the collection for the first month of the quarter and the last month of the quarter? So basically, what is the run rate? Because you did INR 140 crore collections during the quarter. So what would have been the collection for the last month or the current run rate?
So in the quarter, we did collections of about INR 160 crores. And you are right, the exit run rate was better at about INR 58 crores. For the month that just starts by October, it was even better and about 5%, 6% sequential growth. October, we should likely be ending at about INR 62 crores, INR 63 crores, which effectively means that versus pre-COVID levels of about INR 78 crores of monthly rate, we are already at about 78% to 80% of that.
Okay. My last question is on the B2B segment. Can you give some color on -- so you have done the fantastic demo of the B2B product. Just trying to understand, how many listings which have been covered and have already been uploaded? I mean is the B2B portal, what you have uploaded, will be there -- I mean all the listings, which you have, have been uploaded or at the time of product launch, the number of listings will significantly go up on the B2B side?
So the -- yes, go ahead.
Listings are 6 million listings, which are being [ adjusted ] there. In terms of enrichment of catalog, the process is continuously on, on a daily basis, we're developing in thousands. So obviously, at the time of launch, there will be much, much more enriched catalog than what you see now. Now of course, we did a mere preview. So that's what this is.
So my basic question is that -- so you are uploading on the real time. So if the listing comes in, you upload it. It's not that the quality or the quantity of listings in terms of the number of products will go up significantly at the time of launch of the website?
So Pranav, out of the total 30 million listings that we have, 6 million pertain to B2B. A majority of those listings we always had. They have been amazed over the last whatever 15, 20 years. And that is the segment from which we are getting 20% of revenue.As part of JD Mart, where a lot of searches will be triggered from product services, meaning you will directly search a product, those digital catalogs are getting enhanced in all these particular listings. As we speak, 30 million products are already available in all these particular 6 million listings that we have. And on a daily basis, various content enrichment that is happening on the B2B side.
[Operator Instructions] We have a question from Vinay Jain, individual investor.
I wanted to ask when we're planning to launch this JD Mart? Hello?
Yes. So to your question on launch, we are targeting to launch JD Mart by the end of this calendar year. So sometime in December is what we are targeting launch of the platform.
Okay. And in what respect it looks better than IndiaMART? What is the unique feature which is not there in IndiaMART?
No, we don't want to get into any comparison right now. When the product is launched, you will be able to see something distinctly unique to what we have created. And there is enough scope in the market for 2 marketplaces to exist as we can understand that most of businesses have realized how important it is to go online, go digital. And go -- and for them, digital means more importantly, a marketplace where the customers are there.So we are very proud of our features, and we've got certain features which -- it is not that these cannot be replicated, but that these features are not there in any other portal right now. So when we launch it, you will get to see it. In terms of quality, presentation, everything you will see, it will be distinctly unique and different.
Next question we have from Ankit Gupta, individual investor.
Regarding the B2B model, what will be our business model? It will be a premium or it will be pure subscription-like model? That's number one. And second, once we launch as a marketing initiative, could you be going -- could you be offering a free service for the starting, say, 3 months or 6 months? What's the plan like?
So all the 6 million listings are entitled for a premium catalog for -- so the idea is to get them all download JD Mart app, update their catalog on it and all those things. And that's how you create a great ecosystem and a great marketplace. Because B2B [Foreign Language] the thing is between sellers and also the potential users of the product.So premium definitely it's going to be there for all 6 million, everybody can enjoy the catalog. In terms of access to leads and all that, the privileged ones will get more, not that the premiums don't get it, but then the ones which are paying or taking premium listings are the ones who will get access to qualified leads. So that's how it is going to be.And -- yes, what was the second question?
Regarding your marketing initiatives?
Yes. Marketing, of course, will be a big knockdown. So you will see it in allover the media anywhere we launch it. It will be covered both on digital, television as well as every possible channel to reach out to businesses.
Okay. And sir, have you decided the pricing for the -- as you said, for the premium subscription?
Like I said, it will be as simple, as minimal as INR 3,000 a month and upwards, depending on the kind of keywords, the number of catalogs they want to display as well as the quantum of leads they want to access. So it will be based on that. So basic package will be as less as INR 3,000 a month, which is just INR 100 a day.
[Operator Instructions] Next, we have Anmol Garg from Motilal Oswal.
Sir, I just wanted to let you -- just wanted to know that what would be the average realization of the current B2B listing on our flagship app?
So current average realization pre-COVID was about INR 20,000 per campaign per year. So against our overall company level, B2B was fetching us around 10% higher ticket size.
Okay. And sir, are you -- are we confident that the higher pricing point will not impact our current B2B listing revenue, while we are migrating our B2B listings to JD Mart application?
See, definitely, not the price point at which we currently operate, INR 20,000, it is even less than, say, whatever, INR 1,700, INR 1,800 a month. And in B2B, what we realize, customers definitely have the propensity to be able to pay much higher. So the customer is saying that if you can deliver me higher value, I'm willing to pay even twice price of that particular amount. So specifically on B2B side, because those customers themselves have a much higher ticket size versus the B2C SME, that is why I don't think so ticket size should be any particular problem.
And sir, lastly from my end, the customers who are not switching to the JD Mart app, will they be able to list down their products on the flagship app under the B2B part?
So all customers, as you have mentioned, will be able to showcase their particular product on the platform, both Just Dial as well as JD Mart. In order to access premium features such as access to qualified leads, they will be required to pay a certain amount.
Next, we have Deep Shah from AMBIT Capital.
I just wanted to ask that over the last few quarters, we've seen around 2,750 employees being reduced. So what is the thought process on that front? And do we see that incrementally this head count should increase as we build out specialized teams for B2B?
So Deep, on the employee count, for the last 6, 7 months, we have been very, very restrictive on hiring. Hiring has been opened up only in last 1, 1.5 months. That is why one of the reasons has been for this particular drop. Also, in order to optimize on our particular payroll cost, we did some rationalization in terms of rewarding top performers more and bottom performers were treated on a performance basis. Going forward, I think we should be adding to current particular head count. Our endeavor will always be to ensure that current resources should be -- their output should be optimized to the extent possible.
See, one, of course, because of COVID, the access to customers reduced drastically. And hence, we let the attrition happen. And we didn't hire new people. We continued to consolidate our existing team and get more productivity out of that. But that's not a long-term strategy. Obviously, when markets open up, mobility becomes normal, then our hiring should be really in full speed and it's already started actually. And by the time, probably the first quarter of -- the last quarter of this year or the first quarter of next year, we should be having more head counts, directly or indirectly, working for us [ but then it will be in the future ]. More than what it was pre-COVID levels.
The next question is from Manik Taneja from JM Financial.
I had a couple of questions for Abhishek and Mani. #1 question was the trend that we are seeing around revenue decline, [indiscernible] campaign trend. There is a wide deviation in terms of the paid campaign listing which is down 15% while revenue has been down 31%. And that trend has sustained in the listings [indiscernible]. So what explains that? That is my question #1.The second thing is, I just wanted to get some sense related to the JDXpert launch. So how do you essentially plan to compete against some of your private competition? Will you be open to burning cash [indiscernible]?
You take the second question sir.
So JDXperts is just an option given to the Just Dial users that they could also get directly through Just Dial and it is like [indiscernible] who could give you a different level of service. There is a fixed tariff card, scheduling possible and JD also [indiscernible] with support, okay? That's an option to the users and that is because certain segment of the population wants to move on and have a simply smooth experience, what I call it like [indiscernible] And that's why there is a need of hour and now we have to launch something like JDXperts nevertheless.It's not necessarily everything leads to JDXperts, but JDXperts is one of those products available, and that will also be a standalone app called JDXperts, which people [indiscernible] will move on to that.Now in terms of competition and all that, the market is just not [indiscernible] things are dramatically changing. You will see there is enough opportunity for more than 1 player. And also, there are many, many users who would probably want to use it via the same app. And somebody want it even as simple as call the number and [indiscernible] service and all that. So the potential is huge, and we are quite excited about it. And our partners are extremely excited about it.So things are looking good. And as far as JD is concerned, the monetization from this product, it will only get better. The more deeper engagement for users, repeat usage, all this is going to be the outcome of JDXperts.
On the first question...
First question, I couldn't hear. So Abhishek, you can take it.
Yes. On the first question on revenue drop versus campaign drop, see, the revenue that you see in P&L is nothing but approval of what we have sold in past, say, 4 quarters. So any particular money that comes into the company, if it is on an upfront basis, money gets approved over the tenure of the contract, typically, say, 1 year.Now first quarter had 52% year-on-year drop in collection, and the March month was also impacted due to lockdown. Against that, the drop in revenue in P&L is around 31% each for first quarter as well as second quarter. Theoretically, the 52% drop should have shown up in P&L as 52% drop in accrual in some particular quarter. I was considering how revenue resignation takes place, that effect has been sort of smoothened out to about 30% cut in top line. So the key is that how soon can that particular collections number on a monthly basis come back. As it comes back, definitely P&L revenue shall also be back on track.
Next, we have Shubhangi Nigam from Kotak Securities.
I just have a small bookkeeping question. What is the share of the Tier 2 and Tier 3 cities in the total revenues as well as in the campaigns? And what is your outlook ahead like a year down the line?
So Tier 2, Tier 3 cities, they contribute about 34% to revenue, and about 55% to campaigns count. So Tier 2, Tier 3 cities have been seeing higher growth, though they have a much lesser ticket size versus Tier 1 cities. Over the long run, considering the kind of potential that exists in Tier 1 cities itself plus the new product launches that we are having in terms of JD Mart, JDXperts, et cetera, I think Tier 1 cities should also pick up in long run. Tier 1 should still continue to have about 60% revenue share.
Next, we have [ Yogesh Bhatia ] from Sequent Investments.
Sir, I wanted to assume. How much is the total capital commitment towards JD Mart? And of that, how much have you already spent on building the app and things like that?
See, in terms of -- there is no total capital commitment as such because JD Mart which caters to B2B listings, we have always been having these particular listings on our platform. Though development cost is already expensed, whatever has gone in the last 8 to 9 months, we do intend to spend aggressively on marketing this particular world-class product that we have created. So we are planning to have, say, around INR 80 crores to INR 100 crores, possibly to be spent on popularizing this particular product over 6 to 9 months post the launch of the platform.
Okay. And I have 1 more question, who is leading the sales team for JD Mart? Is it our existing team or have we -- do we have new faces in the team? How is that?
That is a separate question. Sohail Siddqui will be heading the B2B sales initiative, already heading it actually.
Who is it, sir? I couldn't hear you?
And there are a couple of others who are experts. Sohail -- Sohail is heading that.
Sohail, okay.
Yes, he's been with us for the last 25 years, almost as old as the company.
Okay. He's been with you for 25 years?
Yes, [indiscernible] for B2B. So he will be heading it.
So will it be right for me to assume that the second half of next calendar year, we should be -- JD Mart can meaningfully contribute to the top line of Just Dial?
Absolutely.
Next, we'll have [ Ridhima from Roha Asset Management ].
My question is on the B2B side, that to which cities -- I mean to which tier, Tier 1, Tier 2, Tier 3, we are targeting this B2B segment? And in the package side, as you said that average realization per campaign for you is INR 20,000. So is this -- so will we take any campaigns? So how much horizon basically, is it for 3 months or 6 months or for, say, 2 years or 3 years like that? Give me some color on that.
Sure. So in terms of cities, the platform would be a pan-India platform. It will cater to every geography out there. We have feet-on-street present across 150 plus cities in India. So all our initiatives typically are at a pan-India level. Definitely, there will be more focus on industrial belts where monetization potential will be much higher. Coming to your question on INR 20,000, that particular ticket size is on an annualized basis. Our particular -- most of the packages typically are annual in nature.
Okay. Okay. So isn't it like, say, more than 1 year, 2 year, 3 year kind of thing?
There are certain packages which are for longer as well as shorter duration as well. But on an average, when we look at our particular ticket size, that is typically the annualized ticket size. So annual revenue divided by active paid campaigns at any point of time typically gives us the blended ticket size on an annualized basis.
Okay. Okay. And isn't -- in the B2B platform, everything is on upfront payment basis? Or is there any deferred revenue also?
So the endeavor will be that it will be as friction-free as possible. So there will be both payments -- options of monthly payment as well as upfront payment. And in case you wish to opt for upfront payment, there will definitely be a 10% to 15% standard discount that should be there. So our endeavor will be that any particular customer bases their particular preferences should be able to join our particular paid ecosystem.
Okay, okay. And in the EBITDA margins, so what guidance at this point in time we can give on the EBITDA margin and in the top line?
See, there is no specific guidance that we provide. One can appreciate that currently the situation remains very fluid in terms of COVID-19 impact, though the good part is that cases and fatality rates are down in India. Our traffic has already recovered well, monetization is catching up.On the margin side, as you would have seen that despite a 30% drop in top line, we have been able to pull all our efficiency levers and still able to deliver 30% plus EBITDA margin. So Just Dial has always tried to run business as efficiently as possible.Having said that, if we -- with the campaigns that we shall launch to popularize our new products, that would obviously have impact for a few quarters. However, that would obviously be looked as an investment to get much more traffic and monetization in future.
Okay. And our total deferred revenue growth Y-o-Y and Q-o-Q, what is the exact number -- absolute number?
So deferred revenue for this particular quarter stood at about INR 279.5 crores, which had a decline of about 26% year-on-year.
And to add a bit on deferred revenue. So if you see in the month of January, we had a collection of INR 82-odd crores. And in the month of February, it had come down to INR 62 crores. That is because consciously, we are trying to push more monthly payment packages. And unfortunately, that happens right before COVID, and hence, we had doubled the earnings. So now we are discussing the right balance with this new initiative. And you would see that things should be looking up in terms of deferred revenue as well with collections going up, and -- so that also is a part of it.
Okay. And deferred revenue number for the Q1, if you can provide?
INR 287 crores at the end of first quarter.
Next, we have Manik Taneja from JM Financial.
I had a bookkeeping question related to the advertising expenses in the current quarter as well as in the prior quarter, if you could breakup [indiscernible]?
So advertising spend was negligible. For the first 2 quarters combined, we have spent approximately INR 50 lakhs. For second quarter, it was about INR 20 lakhs only.
[Operator Instructions] Next we have [indiscernible] from AMBIT Capital.
I just had a question about billing. So how is the billing cycle changing? And what proportion of new ads are monthly plans against the 3 months or 6 months plan?
So at this point of time, our sign-ups are around 28% to 30% are on a monthly plan basis and 70%, 72% are on upfront basis. Here again, in the month of February and first half of March, when we had aggressively sold on monthly plan basis, this particular ratio had almost reversed; 70% were being sold on a monthly plan basis and the good part was that because of much higher affordability, we could see about 15%, 16% jump in our particular sign-ups in the month of February versus, say, December quarter average.Our endeavor going forward will be as soon as all the lockdown restrictions are fully lifted, our sales employees are able to visit employers freely, we would want to, again, go back to our monthly plan strategy because under that strategy, it enables any SME to come into the paid ecosystem in a very frictionless manner.
So at this time, there are no further questions in the queue. So I would like to now hand over the floor back to the management for their closing remarks. Over to you, sir.
Thank you, everyone, for joining us. In case you have any further queries, please do reach out. We would do our best to address. And you shall get regular updates on our new initiatives. That's it from my side. Thank you.
Thank you so much speakers for addressing the session. Thank you, participants, for joining in. That does conclude our conference call for today. You may all disconnect now. Thank you, and have a pleasant evening.