J Kumar Infraprojects Ltd
NSE:JKIL
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Earnings Call Analysis
Summary
Q1-2024
J. Kumar Infraprojects experienced a 14% surge in Q1 FY '24 revenue to INR 1,031 crores, with EBITDA up by 15% to INR 162 crores, reflecting robust execution capabilities. Profit After Tax (PAT) increased by 18% to INR 73 crores. The company's total order book stands strong at INR 14,351 crores. With confidence in being awarded projects exceeding INR 8,000 crores during the fiscal year and possessing ample cash and unutilized working capital, J. Kumar Infraprojects is poised for sustained growth and improved EBITDA margins.
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Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to J. Kumar Infraprojects Limited Q1 FY '24 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. Before we begin a brief disclaimer, this presentation which J. Kumar Infraprojects Limited has uploaded on the stock exchange and their website, including the discussions during the call, contains or may contain certain forward-looking statements, concerning J. Kumar Infraprojects business prospects and profitability which are subject several risks and uncertainties and the actual result could materially differ from those in such forward-looking statements.I now hand the conference over to Mr. Kamal Gupta, MD, J. Kumar Infraprojects. Thank you and over to you, sir.
Good afternoon, everyone. On behalf of J. Kumar Infraprojects, I welcome everyone to the Q1 FY '24 earnings conference call of the company. Joining me on this call is Mr. Nalin Gupta, MD; Mr. Madan Biyani, CFO; and our IR Team. I hope everyone had an opportunity to look at our results. The presentation and press release have been uploaded on the stock exchanges and on our company's website.There is an air of sustained optimism in India, even as the world grapples with the economic uncertainties. The government has adhered to its infrastructure driven growth path and continued with CapEx spending. Our performance trajectory over the last few years have been testimony of our disciplined approach and strong foundation.The health performance during Q1 FY '24 reflects the depth of our exhibition capabilities. Our robust execution capabilities, coupled with strong repository of asset base, enabling efficient execution, reflected in strong execution revenue growth.We believe that the infrastructure growth story is shaping out well. And especially the urban infrastructure segment, our sustained outperformance and ordering flow has enthused optimism and confidence to continue the outperformance alongside improvement in margin profile.The project awarding gained momentum during the current fiscal year. We have so far received orders worth INR 3,570 crores in current financial year, and we are involved in projects worth more than INR 4,000 crores, which includes GMLR, there is Goregaon-Mulund Link Road twin tunnel projects, where our share is around INR 3,088 crores.We believe that the momentum would accelerate further in months to come and we will be able to participate incrementally in the same.The company is at inflection point in terms of its corporate personality, strengthening its capacity as to sustained growth in terms of order book and overall performance.Well, coming to the performance highlights of Q1 FY '24. The revenue from operations, for Q1 FY '24 grew by 14% to INR 1,031 crores as compared to INR 994 crores in the preceding year of Q1 FY '23. The EBITDA for Q1 FY '24 grew by 15% to INR 162 crores. EBITDA stood at 14 -- EBITDA percentage stood at 14.3% as compared to 14.1% in the preceding year.The PBT for Q1 grew by 19%, to INR 100 crores year-on-year. And the PAT for Q1 FY '24 grew by 18% to INR 73 crores, as compared to INR 62 crores in the preceding year.Our total order book today stands at INR 14,351 crores, compromising of balance orders booked as on 30th June, 23 and receipt of NOI of Chennai Elevated Corridor from NHAI amounting to INR 3,570 crores.Before taking the Q&A, we would like to emphasize that our robust execution capabilities, coupled with strong repository of asset base, enabling efficient execution will translate into strong revenue growth as well as improvement in EBITDA margins in coming years.We are aggressively targeting projects which we believe will help us to maintain our current growth and margin profile. We are confident of being awarded projects in excess of INR 8,000 crores during the current fiscal year by FY '24.The company has sufficient cash as well as unutilized working capital facilities to undertake large projects and also to ramp up execution of existing projects.Thank you so much. Now, we open it for question-and-answer please.
[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Mohit Kumar from ICICI Securities.
Congratulations on a very good set of numbers. So my first question is on the -- of course, you have a solid order inflow for the quarter and also you are [Technical Difficulty] large order.So my -- is there any -- what is the order inflow you're looking at for the full year? Are you looking at the higher number now given that we have won these 2 large -- one NHAI order at this, Mumbai GMLR order.
Yeah. We are looking for an order inflow of around INR 8,000 crore for this current financial year. Taking our order book to around INR 14,000 crore odd by the year end of FY -- INR 15,000 crore around by the year end of FY '24.
Okay, sir. And can you just let us know the Mumbai -- order if you're prospect in Mumbai City and also Mumbai City, Mumbai MMR. And also anything, any order prospect in the in the Metro?
Okay. So, yeah, there's huge opportunity for order inflow, Mr. Mohit, let it be Mumbai MMR, or other states of India. So MMR itself, like, you know, there's this multimodal corridor which has come up. So, like, Maharashtra itself, like, is coming up more than INR 2,00,000 crore of projects, which includes multimodal corridor, the Pune Ring Road, Nandurbar City tunnel project, the Versova to Dahisar Coastal Road project. The flyover projects of Mumbai, MMR, Metro. There are lot of Metro projects.Today also if you must have seen in the paper, they have announced a INR 15,000 crore Metro lines from Badlapur to Taloja -- Badlapur to this thing Bhiwandi. So the huge opportunity here in all sectors, there is Metro, elevated underground roads, flyovers, other building projects we are supporting. Some -- we'll be already L1 in one building project in Delhi.So there are some more coming there. So I think opportunity is left and right, Mr. Mohit. So there's no dearth of opportunities, but we are just waiting to get the project at the right number.
Understood. And my second question is on the fact that you are guiding for a $1 billion kind of number for FY '27, which is around INR 8,200 crores kind of top line, which implies that we need around 20% kind of CAGR in the revenues for the next year 4, 5 years. Is that -- are you on track to achieve that? Or do you think we need to diversify into more sectors to achieve this number?
Well, so I would say that, firstly, this year's growth that we are expecting is what we have been saying around 15%. But from the coming 2 years, we should -- the financial year FY '25 and '26, we expect to grow at a year-on-year basis to around 18% to 20%. With these new orders coming up of around 8,000 -- of nearly INR 8,000 crores for GMLR in Chennai, this will start giving the revenue to us from the -- in FY '25 and onwards.So we are very comfortable, I guess, to say that we should be able to become a $1 billion revenue company by FY '27. And so like the dollar rate that you are seeing -- this is, of course, one factor, because when we gave a target 1 year back, it was around INR 78. So now -- INR 75 to INR 78, and now it's grown up INR 82. So our basic target is that we are very confident that we should be reaching around INR 7,500 crores please revenue by FY '27.
But do we need to diversify into other sectors? Or do you think what we are being right now or is good enough for you to achieve that number?
Well, so with the order book of around INR 14,800 crores as of today and with the L1 being converted into the order book within a month's time is what we expect. And we'll deducting the revenue that we'll be generating for the FY '24, we should be standing at an order of more than INR 15,000 crores. And as we -- we are already in the pipeline to bid projects worth more -- around INR 50,000 crores in this fiscal year.We are sure that we should be in a growing trend and so I don't find any problem within next 2 financial years, because we already have an order book of INR 15,000 crore as of today. So it should not be a problem for the top line for the next 2 years any which case.
The next question is from the line of Nikhil Kanodia from HDFC Securities.
Sir, first of all, conversation on a great set of numbers. Sir, I just wanted to confirm a few numbers before I pose with my question. Sir, you mentioned that you have an L1 of INR 4,000 crores, which includes GMLR, the Goregaon-Mulund Road of INR 3,008 crores, right?
Correct.
And the bid pipeline, you said, is around INR 50,000 crore, correct?
Every Bidding coming month, yeah.
That we'll be bidding. We have already bidded for projects worth around INR 3,700 crores for which the bids has been submitted and we are L1 in additionally INR 4,100 crores.
Okay. And what will be the bid pipeline, like you are turning to a bid for what worth of projects in this financial year?
So it all depends upon what is the bid submission date. But anywhere, not less than INR 25,000 crores worth of bid is what we are expecting to bid. And we feel that we should be able to back reasonable size of orders out of it.
Okay. And, sir, with -- like, with this, do you, revise your FY '24 revenue and margin guidance?
So for FY '24, we don't intend to revise our top line. So it's what we have been projecting around INR 4,800 crores for FY '24, because, the new orders wouldn't be having a financial addition to the top line of the company in this fiscal year. But, yes, from the current guidance of a growth of around 15% will be revised and, to around 18% to 20% in the coming next 2 years.
Okay. Understood, sir. Sir, what would be your current fund base and non-fund base limits and also the utilization?
Fund base, non-fund base and secondly what did you ask?
Utilization.
Fund base and non-fund base, the movements that you have currently and the utilization on this same.So, yeah, we have fund based limits of, like, INR 635 crores, wherein utilize is 62%, that is INR 392 crores, term loan is INR 120 crores utilized and non-fund is INR 3,200 crores and utilized out of that is 80% around INR 2,600 crores.
Sir, can you repeat the non-fund based limits?
So, sanctioned is INR 3,200 crores, and utilized is INR 2,600 crores, 80% of it.
Okay, sir. Understood. And sir, what will the cash as on June 30?
Sorry? Come back.
The cash balance.
Cash balance?
The cash balance -- yeah, cash and cash equivalents?
The total cash balance, as on June 30 will be in the range of INR 451 crores.
INR 400 crores, right?
Yeah.
INR 451 crores. Okay. Okay. So, sir, last. Last quarter you mentioned that, like, you are evaluating some of the bullet train projects. So, sir, any kind of insights, if you can throw on that? Like, what is the preparedness and what is the kind of -- like, where are we standing, in terms of bullet print projects as of now?
So the bullet train bid was opened, and we were L2 in it. So L&T got the order and we were at L2. So the bids are already open and we could -- we missed that opportunity. So we'll try for the next projects coming up.
What was the, like, margin that that you would have missed that?
It is around INR 950 crores, which is close to, like, I should say, 5%, 5.5%.
The next question is from the line of Chirag Singhal from First Water Capital.
So just one question on the margin profile. So, do Metro projects have a higher margin profile than the other projects such as roads and flyovers. And if yes, like, what is the basis point difference in general?
Well, so, we GMLR project that we have taken is a very unique kind of project. So we would -- we have activated better margin, and, we intend that we should be adding up around 150 basis points in the next 2 years' time.
Okay. And, in general, just wanted to understand, so this 150 basis points also was through, if I look at overall, Metro projects that you have versus the other projects?
Sorry, Mr. Chirag.
I'm saying that this 150 basis point that you mentioned, does this also hold true when we compare overall, margins on the Metro projects versus overall margins on the other projects?
Yeah. So we are talking about this overall margin only, Chirag. This mix of other projects. It seems like, you know, whatever we are working, we work in a very niche area. Like, there is this complex engineering project. So the margins here are comparatively better than the road. And, so competition is also competitively lower here. So we are expecting this EBITDA margin going ahead also.
The next question is from the line of Shravan Shah from Dollar Capital. Please go ahead. thank you.
Congratulations on great set of numbers and, significant order win. Couple of questions. First, I need a clarity on a Chennai Elevated Corridor. we are seeing it is INR 3,570 crore, but -- so are we going to even -- where our share is 90%, are we going to execute the 100%? Because, otherwise, the difference is INR 3,400 crore. So INR 170 odd crore difference is there.
Yeah. You're right, Shravan. So, like, the budget cost is INR 3,570 crores. Wherein, in 2 projects, we have JV. So 90% is our share, but we'll be excluding 100% of the project. And, like, some JV partners will be giving technical guidance for the cables portion for us.
Okay. And then this project in terms of the revenue this year, broadly, so when the appointed date. And broadly, how much revenue will it contribute this year FY '24 or it will be the FY '25, we will start booking the revenue?
So, of course, like, we already got the LOI and in another 1 month and 1.5 months, 2 months, we should get the appointed date also after submission of the PBG and signing of the agreements.So in another 1 month we'll get the orders -- this appointed date. And, we will get some part of the revenue in this current sector also from Chennai Elevated project. So probably in the fourth quarter.
Okay. Got it. Second, clarity regarding GMLR. So, the project is in JV. So are we going to book revenue in standalone or only the profit will come as a -- in standalone or will it only be in consol it will be?
We will be doing the job in the integrated JV and the work -- the profits will be transferred to the individual partners as in when the profit is generated.
And, as for the accounting standard, Shravan, the revenue -- proportionate revenue of each of the JVs will come in their respective financials. Similarly, cost will also come and automatically EBITDA, PAT everything will come. This is -- and it's called proportionate method of consolidation in terms of joint operation.
Okay. So at stand alone, we will be seeing a revenue from this JV?
Yes.
Yes.
Okay. Got it. And broadly in terms of there, when we'll -- or are going to start the -- booking the revenue? And in terms of the CapEx, I understand we need a bigger, TBM, so broader CapEx. So what would be the share of our CapEx in the entire CapEx for this GMLR and when are we going to do that CapEx? So with that overall CapEx for this year at stand alone, and the next year?
So, well, for this fiscal year there won't be any major contribution as such for the revenue. And for, the revenue generation would start only from FY '25, and that is next year. And, for the CapEx, we are looking out the numbers. But, yes, there will be, a sizable CapEx for the additional TBM that is required for this project. And, it will be done in -- in the next, 2 financial years.
But, broadly, it would be at INR 200 crore, INR 300 crore kind of a 1 TBM needed or 2 TBM, we will be needing?
So there will be 2 TBMs required, and it will be, so one machine will be on each partner's books.
Okay. And broadly INR 200 crore to INR 250 crore or even higher than that?
-- so we are negotiating the price of it.
Okay. Got it. Second in terms of the margin, when we say in the presentation, we have, definitely, increased from 14% to 15% to 15% to 16%. And, just now in the previous reply we said that we are looking at improvement of 150 basis point.So if I look at from 14.3% plus 150, so kind of a 16.04%, 16.5% kind of a margin. Sorry, sir?
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Please go ahead.
Yeah. So I am saying, so this year we will be having a close to 14.5% and from next year, we can see a 16% plus kind of a margin. Is that understanding right?
So Shravan, like, as we told, we are in the range of 14% to 15% of the secured projects also with this margin. We are on the verge. Like, we want to improve this margin going forward. Let's see, like, coming year onwards, how much it will increase, but we are on the verge of increasing these margins going forward. Yeah. I cannot really check numbers, but, like, of course, it will be improved.
Okay. Okay. Got it. And second, a clarification needed, Last time we said that we are in L1 in, I think, a 490 on 2 projects. So -- and currently, how much exact value and how many projects are there? So apart from the GMLR, what's the value of L1 project?
The 4 projects, which, costing around INR 4,100 crores, will include GMLR that is INR 3,088 crores. So there's one, building projects, development of Colony at Hari Nagar, Delhi, by Delhi Transport Corporation costing INR 536 crores. This all excluding GST. There's one Metro line to be corridor station, finishing work that's costing INR 100 crores. And one flyover of the -- missing link flower at JVLR by MMRDA that is costing INR 380 crores taking into [ INR 4,000 crores ].
Okay. Okay. Then then if we, broadly, convert this, INR 500 crore -- INR 5,000 crore this. So -- then we should be easily seeing, as you mentioned, more than INR 8.000 crore. Maybe if we get up any large project, then the inflow could be even INR 10,000 odd crore.
So that's what we have told in excess of INR 8,000 crores for this year.
Okay. And broadly, if you can help us in terms of this INR 25,000 odd crore that we are confident to bid? A broader breakup in terms of any large project that would help?
Like, out of this INR 26,500 crores, what we are seeing. So flyover elevated corridors will be around INR 6,000, INR 7000 crores. Building works will be around INR 3,000 crores. Metros will be around INR 6,000 crores, and road works will be around INR 9,000 crores, and water purchase we'll be around INR 2,000 crores.
Okay. Got it. And, need a couple of data points on the balance sheet. Sir, inventory, trade receivable, trade payable, then the mobilization returns on non-bill revenue.
Inventories, in the range of INR 970 crores, this includes raw materials, WPA, and both. And --
Sorry, sir. In March, the inventory were INR 393 crore, and now it is INR 900 crore.
No. No. The one figure which you are saying is raw material stock. That was approximately INR 370 crores in in March. And now it is around INR 430 crores in June. I had told you the total inventory which includes work in progress also. That is INR 969 crores as of 30th June.
Okay. Trade receivable?
Trade receivable is in the range of INR 1,250 crores, as of 30th June, and trade payable in the range of INR 640 crores.
INR 640 crores. Mobilization advance, retention money, and unbillable revenue. Last -- that last question. mobilization, retention, and unbilled revenue?
Mobilization advance is in the range of INR 532 crores. Retention money, asset side is in the range of INR 267 crores.
Unbilled revenue?
Unbilled revenue is INR 533 crores.
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Parvez Qazi from Nuvama Group.
So, first question is, what is the execution period for the GMLR project?
5 years.
5 years. Great. And second, would be great if you could share, the status of some of our major projects, like, all the Metro lines that we are doing in Mumbai, Pune, Surat, and CIDCO projects, et cetera?
So, well, all the projects are now in very track because they are 1 year, 1.5 years or 3 years old project. So projects are picking up well, fine, and they are in full swing. And, we have already launched the TBM at Mumbai, Surat, and Delhi. and all the 3 machines will be starting in 1 to 2 months' time.
The next question is from the line of Deepesh Agarwal from UTI Asset Management.
Congratulations, Kamalji, for the 2 other wins. My first question is, how the margin profile and the working capital profile of these 2 large projects differ from our existing business. Is it similar, or you find them little different?
So you're talking about the margin profile between smaller and bigger projects. Right?
Yes. And also working capital.
Yeah. So working capital depends upon, like, you know, your type of project. So, wherein, like, at times with your milestone payment the working capital goes up. But usually, that is a big or small project, it does not matter, about working capital.And when we are bidding for this bigger projects, ticket size projects also, you do consider that optimization of the other overheads, my dear. When you're quoting for small and big, for a smaller projects the overhead cost goes much higher as compared to the bigger projects -- ticket size project. So that's the part of, like, putting overhead thing.So, you know, margin wise, it will be similar for bigger ticket size projects also. But of course, your credentials goes up, so you are in a position to bid for bigger ticket size projects going forward also once you complete it.
Okay. Like in Metro, you used to invest a lot in the in raw materials, et cetera, which are used to lead to higher working capital. Do you think similar investment will happen in these 2 large projects?
Correct. So at least in GMLR that will be that way, wherein the month material cost will be less and the associate cost will be much higher. So for this underground project, the material cost is lower and the associated costs are high. And for this elevated the material cost is also similar to other small projects.
Okay. The other question I had, as you mentioned, Goregaon-Mulund project will be executed in a JV structure. So how there would there be a demarcation of the liabilities or efficiency gains between you and your partner? Suppose there is a delay or cost overrun on the partner stretch, would it impact, J. Kumar also? Or other way around this, there are, efficiency gains by J. Kumar, would it also be shared with the partner?
Well, so when the project is executed in a integrated style there is a leader who has been appointed by the joint venture. And the work is supervised by the JV Board. So there is no question of the delay being attributable of one partner to the other. Because it's a joint project -- because -- though its 2 tunnels, but it has to be operated from the same shaft. So it was -- it's very difficult to be executed as 2 individual partners.So as the JV Board, we have, decided we'll be going in for an integrated joint venture where the entire work will be executed by common team. So there is no reason why one -- delay of one person is attributable to the second.And we at J. Kumar, we are experienced contractor with tunneling and underground jobs. So we are very, very sure that this project will go on at the required speed. And we are -- already we have started the initial planning and the procurement processes for calling in for quotations. Once we get the NOI, we will be on the field full-fledged.
Okay. And the reason -- another question in here is, because the partner actually operates at a much lower margin than our margin profile. So does it mean at a project level our margin profile would be little lower than the company average? Or do you think that we'll still be able to maintain that company average market?
Are you talking about the margin for GMLR?
Yes.
Yeah. So GMLR project has been bidded in a joint bidding process where the margin of J. Kumar for this type of project, where we have been executing it for the -- almost, like, last 10, 11 years. So we have kept similar margins in this project. So there is no question of having any impact on the margin for J. Kumar on to our share of projects.
We have the next question from the line of [ Deepen Shah ], an individual investor.
Congratulations on a good set of numbers. I had a couple of broader questions. Firstly, on the overall infrastructure, we have been hearing that the execution lines have picked up. So if you could just give us some more idea on what they changed from the government side, both, as far as the central government is concerned and, more importantly, the Maharashtra government or the state governments are concerned.And I am asking you, more specifically, on the new projects, which is the Goregaon project, which we have got as well as the Chennai project. What is the what is the proportion of land acquisition, et cetera, which has been done from the government side? And is there any potential for delays which could happen?
Coming to the government thing. So, yes, we all we all know that BJP is for infra. So, like -- and now since the center and state both are aligned, the pace of the projects have really gone up. And as the government has kept their promise of infusing more funds or more CapEx spending in infra. So, like, that's why to meet the targets of the GDP. And then you also know the infrastructure sector is the second largest employment generation sector. So that helps to all industry.Coming to the land acquisition, the Chennai project has already, like, 90% of the land in possession. There's a minor 4%, 5%, 6% area what they have to take. So, the appointed date will be given as -- because 90% of the land is in possession, so there's no issue of land acquisition in Chennai.As far as GMLR is concerned with the information that we have from the department on the environmental permissions and, the requisite permission of forest, everything is in place. And now once we get on to the project, we'll come to go into more detail.But, what is very important to understand here is except the 1.6 kilometer cut and cover ramp on the Goregaon side and around 300 meters, cut and cover ramp on the eastern side of Mulund, is only which is going to be affected with trees or some permissions.When you talk about the entire length of 4.8 kilometer, which is by tunnel boring machine, it won't have any implication with -- once we enter it from the cut and cover side, we don't need any permission for the 4.8 kilometer. Because the preliminary -- means the permission for passing through the forest or taking the tunnel below it by TBM has already been taken by the corporation which has been clarified during the pre-bid meeting.
Okay. that's great to hear. And, just one more thing, like, with the General Elections next year coming up, any indications of whether, the work could speed up in the next couple of quarters before cooling down in the last quarter? Or what has been the general experience of the project execution during times of elections?
Well, so I would say that let it be any election time, all the governments or all the political bodies, which has been proven -- Maharashtra is a classical example to understand this fact, where there has been change of guards happening, but every time with whoever has come, infrastructure execution has been as a primary moto for all the political parties. We know that they have done good job for this day. So you don't find any reason why there should be any -- why any implication as to negative side should happen. And it should go on the full swing. And we have a continuous pressure from the department and from the heads of the political party to push the work as much as possible to ease the traffic of every state. So I think the work is going on in well -- good controlled manner, and we should see the same after doing the elections as well.
Exactly. So that's what I was coming to. I was talking about the increased pressure on execution over the next couple of quarters before the Code of Conducts steps in.
The next question is from the line of [ Hemant ] an individual investor.
Sir, congratulations on a very good set of numbers. Sir, just wanted one clarification. So, like, the INR 3,570 crores, the order which we have secured till date, it's in JV. So is it fair to assume that it will only be added to the bottom line as per the accounting standards and not on the top line?And one more thing, sir, are you being a little conservative in writing 15% for FY '24? Because, what the company is targeting is more than more than INR 8,000 crores of order inflow in FY '24.
So if you see, [ Mr. Hemant ], out of this INR 3,570 crores, only the JV portion is INR 170 crore, INR 180 crore or something. Right? And as I told you, one that will be executed by J. Kumar only. They will be giving us technical guidance for some cable strip portion also -- only. So entire, this thing, top line, as well as the bottom line will be coming, in J. Kumar book only. So there's no concern about that.And coming to the growth of, FY '24 as Nalin was telling you. So we have given a target of INR 4,800 crores, okay? So -- which will be a 15% jump than our preceding year. And we're sure to achieve this. Maybe, like, as we say -- we always like to say less and deliver more. So let's see how it goes.
Sir, the order books that -- [ Hemant ], that you are trying to emphasize on, these order books would start contributing only from FY '25 in the right way. So whether it is GMLR, whether it is Chennai it won't start giving revenue in the current fiscal year, because there are a lot of preliminary works that are required to be executed for any project to start and to get the revenue for the top line.
So, sir, that INR 4,000 crores of order, where we are in L1, it's -- some part of how so much we have, must be in JV. Right? So how, much portion will be added to the bottom line? I mean, how much of it will be not added to the top line?
[ Hemant ], this INR 4,100 crore which we told you is completely our share. We have told you only our share only. The total order size is bigger than that. Like, the GMLR. GMLR is a INR 6,300 crore project. So this entire INR 4,100 crore will sit into our P&L and balance sheet as and when the execution is done.
So you mean to say the INR 3,570 crores as well as INR 4,100 crore will be added to the top line also?
Ladies and gentlemen, the line for the management seems to have disconnected. Please stay with us while we reconnect with the management.Ladies and gentlemen, we thank you for your patience. We have reconnected with the management. Over to you, sir.
Yes, sir. So you mean to set at INR 4,000 crores and that INR 3,570 crore will be both added to the top line, right?
Exactly. In J. Kumar books.
But, sir, as per a media interview today, I saw that, our share in INR 4,100 crores is INR 3,000 crores. Maybe I got it wrong or I don't know, sir, if you can clarify.
See, I'll tell you again, like, no confusion. We already secured projects worth INR 3,500 crores, all right? And we are L1 in INR 4,100 crores additionally, so which includes a project of GMLR, which was costing INR 3,088 crores, which is our share of that project. So total project was INR 6,300, so plus, other 3 projects taking it to INR 4,100 crores, which will be in J. Kumar book of accounts. Yeah.
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Nikhil Kanodia from HDFC Securities.
Sir, on the -- like, I need 3 numbers. So on the CapEx front, what is the CapEx that you would have incurred in the first quarter?
INR 33 crores.
33. And sir, the guidance on CapEx, like, for the full year CapEx, what is the amount that you are planning to incur?
Yeah. So we have given an initial guidance of INR 150 crores, which will be incremental maintenance CapEx. But, because of these 2 projects of Chennai and GMLR. there will be additional CapEx. Like, as Nalin told you, the TBM cost only will be big. So that we go in 2 years plus even the Chennai project will have some additional CapEx. So I think for this year, it will be around INR 250 crores.And going forward again, like, it will be -- like this TBM, which will be added. Like, let's see what is the amount we are able to finalize with those guys. So that will be adding in another 2 years -- coming 2 years.
Okay, sir. And, sir, the amount of debt that you're planning to close by the year end would be?
So right now, we are at INR 511 crores. As we always say, like, you know, it will max INR 550 crores to INR 600 crores by the year end.
INR 500 crores to INR 600 crores. Right?
Yeah. Yeah.
And, sir, what would be your target for, working capital days? Like and [indiscernible] days, what is the target per year in the working capital days?
Now I'm at 126, 127 days, and, we always try to -- we were trying, like, to do it by 120 to 130 days. So, like, average of 125 days.
The next question is from the line of Jiten Rushi from Axis Capital.
Congratulations on good set of numbers. Sir, my first question is on the JV part. So, you said, obviously, there is an execution skills which is happening in joint venture. But sir, what would be the mix --
Jiten, can you just repeat?
Sir, my first question is on the joint venture, project, obviously, GMLR. So it is in joint venture with, NCC. So I just want to understand the mix of execution. Because as you've given, you'll be doing the work together. But what will be the mix like?What is the portion of an NCC in that project we'll be executing, whether they will be doing the complex work, or they will be doing a routine work of constructing the road, and you will be doing the more complex work of tunneling and anything. And what kind of margin probably you will have because of the complexity and the CapEx -- as you said, you'll be doing CapEx also in your book. So how does it work? Can you please explain in detail?
So, Jiten, this, as we have mentioned, that this work is a integrated joint venture, where there will be JV Board of both the parties who will be running this project. And there will be a common project head, common resources, staff, and machineries that will be deployed on this project. And the work will be executed, everything as integrated project, as a single project by a single company.So it will be only the decision making which will be coming in by both the partners, depending on the calls that we are supposed to take. But otherwise, this project will be executed as one project by one company. So the JV will be like one company taking the decisions and executing. So it is nothing like one person will be executing the tough part in the other will be doing the easy part.
So basically, you mean to say, you'll be forming a joint venture company step down where you'll be having a stake in it and NCC will having this stake in it. You'll be investing an initial equity to support the CapEx and, to get the things going.So this CapEx of 50 -- certainly as if the TBM comes for this -- you buy the material machine for this project for the next year or year after, which can cost anything to INR 100 crores to INR 200 crores. So this will be part of the JV, and it will be borne both by NCC and J. Kumar. And probably, how -- so how it will work? Like that's the only thing --
So it will be purchased in joint venture. And by the -- after the end of the project, these machine will be either sold off or will be transferred to each partner by doing a requisite billing at the depreciated value.
So you will be requiring 2 machines from either side, you know, what I understand?
2 machines together, one machine from either side you can say, or it's 2 machines for this project.
2 machines from -- together from both the sides.
Yeah. Because it is a tailormade machine of a particular dia. It is India's largest tunnel ever been constructed by a tunnel boring machine. So we at J. Kumar feel pride that we have taken up this job and we'll be executing this large tunnel. And, so this is, not available anywhere in the country of this specific diameter, which is been required for the project. So we have to make it and buy it in the joint ventures.
So this would be costing what? Like, a machine would cost how much? About INR 100 crore, INR 150 crore, or it will be still higher.
Yeah. Around in the range of INR 600 crores to INR 700 crores for 2 machines put together.
So this will be a large CapEx, which we can expect in '25 and '26 then.
Yes. That's right.
Almost 300 crores each on your books. And -- if at all, it's just 50:50 JV then it could be like that.
That's right.
And sir, and coming back to the projects which you're planning to bid in joint venture. So, what are the plans now? Are you going to be steady state with NCC and bid for complex projects like large ticket projects? Or there are plans to now bid independently> Obviously, you've given the insight that L1 is your independent, this. But are there any JV projects which you're planning in coming months? And then NCC is going to be a steady state JV partner? For last thing, what -- can you throw some light or thought behind it, sir?
So mostly, we will like to bid all the projects on a standalone basis of J. Kumar itself. We -- joint ventures are the strategic calls that have been taken depending upon the nature of work. But most of the projects that we are planning to bid in this coming time would be on a standalone basis of J. Kumar.
Okay. So now going forward, we don't see any JV bidding, right?
I don't --
Any such projects.
But it depends on the project. If it is required, it's a different thing. But as of now, we feel that it will be all in J. Kumar as of now.
Okay. And sir, one last question from my side. So, your experience in terms of ordering activity during the election years, so how has been in the past? Whether we could see some ordering in Q4? Obviously, we have seen slowdown from the road sector, especially in the roads. But whether we -- can we see pick up in non-roads, especially, like the tunneling machine from all the Metro work from the state this -- in Q4, do you see that thing to continue? Or we will see some black out from Feb or Jan onwards?
So we had replied this point even before in this Q&A. That there are a lot and lot of opportunities all across the country. It's only now what we have to select. Like, recently, we have bidded for Kanpur Metro. We'll be bidding now for Jaipur, Bhopal. We'll be bidding for various projects in Mumbai.There are very -- for mentors, for flyovers, for tunnes, for water projects, for building projects, so there are --
I understand. I understand, sir, that you -- I agree with you. Sorry to harp on it.
So for recent times -- the couple of months, there will be, like, you cannot close new tenders, but the tenders which are already floated so they can do that due process of, like, you know, calling the RSP and evaluating. All this can be done. So they cannot float it. Wherever -- which state -- whichever state has this election for that 1.5 months, around, like you cannot float new tenders that's the only constraint.
So if at all, our order inflow target is achieved by, say, November, December, probably then we would skip or we will continue -- but at our rate? That is something which I understand.
We will continue. We'll continue bidding, like, what is the project? So whatever projects come of our choice and our verticals, we will keep bidding for that. There's no doubt.
[Operator Instructions] Thank The next question is from the line of Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital.
Sir, can you help us in terms of breakup of INR 3,700 crores projects, where we have already bidded and a bid is yet to be opened?
Okay. So these are, like, you know, 2 NH projects of, Mumbai-Delhi or Mumbai-Vadodara Expressway in JV. so the 2 projects are these. Then there are some small projects of, like, FOB and ROB. We also bidded for this Kanpur Metro, which is costing INR 1,000 crores. And we also quoted for a building project -- PWD building project in Okhla, Delhi, which is costing around INR 500 crores.
Okay. So this -- the 2 NH project would be close to a INR 1000 crore, INR 1,000 crore each kind of?
INR 900 crore and INR 600 crore of our share. So, you know, INR 1,500 crore. INR 1,000 crores is Kanpur Metro, and INR 500 crore is this. So taking it to INR 3,000 crore -- such a smaller other projects, taking into INR 3,500 crore.
Okay. Got it. And, in terms of the existing, projects, just trying to understand the way last time have mentioned. So both this line 3 underground, this will be over, so, by this year end?
Yeah. So Line 3 is -- we have completed -- 88% of the project of Line 3 is already completed. And, the MMRC is contributing to start this -- operation of this first phase from SEEPZ to BKC by early this year. So by end of this financial year. So, like, by Feb, so the project should be started -- 20 Feb, '24.
Okay. So from our side in terms of the order book, we will be completing by this March. This will should be over from our side?
Yeah, major part should be over, apart from some entry and exit where there were some issues. So, all the station, the projects will be done. And couple of entry projects will be over for a couple of months. Correct.
Okay. And this -- both the Dwarka Expressway would be -- mostly would be also 95% kind of would be over by March end?
Correct. So Dwarka Express will be also 95% over by 9th March, you're right -- March, April.
Okay. And in terms of, the Mira Bhayandar, so both the underground and the normal TAT, from now onwards, how much more time it will take to complete?
So we expect around, 1.5 years from now to complete this projects.
Okay. Including the underground?
Yeah. So in the underground section also, means the tunneling would be completed in a year's time. We are -- we have launched both the TBMs and, some arrangements for starting the tunnel -- actual driving is going on. So, in a year's time, we will complete the tunneling work. And the other works -- majority of the station work and other areas, should also be completed, like, in 1.5 years, max 2 years' time from now.
Okay. And then Delhi also will it be in 1.5 years, 2 years will be over, the INR 1,300 crore, kind of order book that currently we have Delhi Metro?
Delhi would take around 2.5 years from now.
Okay. And, this Ircon project, sir, it is not picking up. So from now, how much more time will it take? Because already, I think, more than 1 year it is there, but it hasn't picked up.
So Ircon's appointed date was 19th Jan, '23. So it's like -- you know, it's only been 6 months, 7 months. Shravan, it's not long. It's not 1 year for the moment. And already, the work is going on. All the 4 sides, we're open for the tunnel of 4.5 kilometers. The project is progressing really well. And we are expected to complete it, like, well within time. So there's no problem.This quarter, there was a revenue generation INR 46 crores from Ircon Project -- this tunnel project.
And just to -- in terms of -- definitely, for this year, we mentioned that debt level will be INR 550 crore to INR 600 odd crore. But next year, even if we, let's say, do a higher CapEx of a routine maintenance plus INR 300 crore, kind of, for TBM, then also the debt level for next year also will should not be rising from INR 600 odd crores.
Yeah. Because of that term loan, whatever goes up, those are likely. The term loan part will add up. The CapEx of this TBM will be in addition to INR 550 crore, INR 600 crore. INR 550 crore, INR 600 crore is the current debt as of now. -- incremental because we'll be replaying also some term loan. We will repay also some term loan, but this CapEx will be added up to that.
Ladies and gentlemen, that was our last question. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Kamal Gupta for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
-- reach out to our CFO or IR team for any clarifications, feedback. Thank you so much all. Have a good day.
On behalf of J. Kumar Infraprojects Limited that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.