ITD Cementation India Ltd
NSE:ITDCEM
| US |
|
Fubotv Inc
NYSE:FUBO
|
Media
|
| US |
|
Bank of America Corp
NYSE:BAC
|
Banking
|
| US |
|
Palantir Technologies Inc
NYSE:PLTR
|
Technology
|
| US |
C
|
C3.ai Inc
NYSE:AI
|
Technology
|
| US |
|
Uber Technologies Inc
NYSE:UBER
|
Road & Rail
|
| CN |
|
NIO Inc
NYSE:NIO
|
Automobiles
|
| US |
|
Fluor Corp
NYSE:FLR
|
Construction
|
| US |
|
Jacobs Engineering Group Inc
NYSE:J
|
Professional Services
|
| US |
|
TopBuild Corp
NYSE:BLD
|
Consumer products
|
| US |
|
Abbott Laboratories
NYSE:ABT
|
Health Care
|
| US |
|
Chevron Corp
NYSE:CVX
|
Energy
|
| US |
|
Occidental Petroleum Corp
NYSE:OXY
|
Energy
|
| US |
|
Matrix Service Co
NASDAQ:MTRX
|
Construction
|
| US |
|
Automatic Data Processing Inc
NASDAQ:ADP
|
Technology
|
| US |
|
Qualcomm Inc
NASDAQ:QCOM
|
Semiconductors
|
| US |
|
Ambarella Inc
NASDAQ:AMBA
|
Semiconductors
|
If you don’t study any companies, you have the same success buying stocks as you do in a poker game if you bet without looking at your cards.
Utilize notes to systematically review your investment decisions. By reflecting on past outcomes, you can discern effective strategies and identify those that underperformed. This continuous feedback loop enables you to adapt and refine your approach, optimizing for future success.
Each note serves as a learning point, offering insights into your decision-making processes. Over time, you'll accumulate a personalized database of knowledge, enhancing your ability to make informed decisions quickly and effectively.
With a comprehensive record of your investment history at your fingertips, you can compare current opportunities against past experiences. This not only bolsters your confidence but also ensures that each decision is grounded in a well-documented rationale.
Do you really want to delete this note?
This action cannot be undone.
| 52 Week Range |
212.3
645.05
|
| Price Target |
|
We'll email you a reminder when the closing price reaches INR.
Choose the stock you wish to monitor with a price alert.
|
|
Fubotv Inc
NYSE:FUBO
|
US |
|
|
Bank of America Corp
NYSE:BAC
|
US |
|
|
Palantir Technologies Inc
NYSE:PLTR
|
US |
|
C
|
C3.ai Inc
NYSE:AI
|
US |
|
|
Uber Technologies Inc
NYSE:UBER
|
US |
|
|
NIO Inc
NYSE:NIO
|
CN |
|
|
Fluor Corp
NYSE:FLR
|
US |
|
|
Jacobs Engineering Group Inc
NYSE:J
|
US |
|
|
TopBuild Corp
NYSE:BLD
|
US |
|
|
Abbott Laboratories
NYSE:ABT
|
US |
|
|
Chevron Corp
NYSE:CVX
|
US |
|
|
Occidental Petroleum Corp
NYSE:OXY
|
US |
|
|
Matrix Service Co
NASDAQ:MTRX
|
US |
|
|
Automatic Data Processing Inc
NASDAQ:ADP
|
US |
|
|
Qualcomm Inc
NASDAQ:QCOM
|
US |
|
|
Ambarella Inc
NASDAQ:AMBA
|
US |
This alert will be permanently deleted.
ITD Cementation India Ltd
You don't have any saved screeners yet
Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the ITD Cementation Q4 FY '23 Earnings Conference Call, hosted by ICICI Securities Limited. [Operator Instructions]. Please note that this conference is being recorded.I now hand the conference over to Mr. Mohit Kumar from ICICI Securities. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Darmick. Welcome, everyone. On behalf of ICICI Securities, I welcome you all to the Q3 FY '23 -- for Q4 FY '23 conference call of ITD Cementation. Today, we are pleased to host senior management of the company: which is represented by Mr. Jayanta Basu, Managing Director; and Mr. Prasad Patwardhan, CFO. The meeting will start with a brief remarks by Mr. Basu and Mr. Patwardhan, after which we will open the floor for Q&A. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Good evening, everyone. This is Prasad Patwardhan, CFO of ITD Cementation, and I thank you all for joining us on the Q4 FY '23 results concall. I will start with a brief introduction on the financial performance of the company during this quarter and for the year ended March '23. And thereafter, I will hand over to Mr. Basu for his initial comments, and then we'll take questions from you.This quarter and this year, we have posted a very strong financial performance for the company with highest ever turnover profitability order flow during the year and order book as of March '23. Our revenue for the quarter ending INR1,631 crores as against INR1,174 crores a year that which represents an increase of about 40%. EBITDA has come in at INR147 crores in this quarter as against INR93 crores on a year-on-year basis, that's a growth of 58%. And PAT for the quarter is INR38 crores against INR17 crores, a growth of 128% on a Y-o-Y basis. For the year ending March '23, our consolidated revenue has crossed the INR5000 crore mark, as against INR3,809 crores in FY '22, with sequential growth of about 34%. EBITDA is at INR463 crores as against INR338 crores, again, a growth of about 37%. And profit after tax has crossed the INR100 crore mark this year. We have reported a profit of INR125 crores as against INR69 crores a year back, which represents a growth of about 80% this year.Our balance sheet continues to remain healthy, or we are included upon it to some extent and the debt-equity -- net debt to equity ratio at about [ 0.2% ]. During the year ended March '23, we have secured new orders of over INR8,000 crores. And that really bodes well, it gives us visibility for revenue in the next year or 2 to come. That is all from my side at the moment. I will now hand over to Mr. Basu for his initial comments.
Good evening to all, and welcome to this concall. Thank you, Prasad, for sharing the financial numbers of last quarter and the year. It is evident that we have made substantial progress in last quarter. Our revenue has crossed INR1,600 crores, which used to be around INR1,000 crores a few quarters back, so around 60% growth in the work in progress. With that, we also have good work in hand close to INR21,000 crores. The mix of the work in hand also is good because underground metro and marine components are most.If I touch upon the major contribution last quarter, Ganga Expressway has contributed a lot in the progress. And then a few metro jobs underground that is at Bangalore and Chennai. Marine jobs, Udangudi, Sea Bird, Ennore, Colombo has just started, and Sivok Rangpo a tunnel job at North Bengal also going on well. So overall, all the segments, including a few buildings, we have done very good last quarter. We have got -- apart from the work in hand what we have, there are a few big jobs under tender in marine and underground sectors, some international jobs. So things are also looking good.So I'd be happy to answer any questions [indiscernible] of last quarter and last year. Thank you.
Thank you very much. [Operator Instructions]. The first question is from the line of Nikhil Abhyankar from ICICI Securities.
Congrats on a very good set of Q4. So sir, going forward, how do you -- what will you guide for FY '23 in terms of revenue, EBITDA, margins, PAT and order inflow?
Well, I think we would maintain the same run rate in terms of the top line. And because we have got work in hand and those need to be executed within the given time, so revenue [indiscernible] we can say the same run rate INR1600 crore, INR1700 crore per quarter. EBITDA will be around this, maybe we'll cut double-digit end of the year. And order inflow, last year, we have secured around INR8,000 crore job. This year also it should be at least INR8,000 crores, that is the [ alternative ].
INR8,000 crores. Sir, and you just mentioned that we might touch double-digit margins in FY '24 itself. So what exactly has changed in the last 2 years? It is almost 200 bps.
Last 2 years, we had some legacy jobs like elevated metro at Bangalore and some other places. So those we could not do better, now those just are behind us. So that will contribute to the bottom line. In fact, for Bangalore Metro, we didn't declare any margins for 2 years. So we have done around INR1,500 crores revenue during this period.
So all the legacy orders are behind us now?
Yes, some like some claims and some certifications always the part of this business that will keep on going. But more or less, they are under control now.
Understood. And sir, you mentioned order inflow target of around INR8,000 crores again. So do we have any preference regarding the segments where it will come from? And what -- where do you -- what is the pipeline as of today?
We expect that we may get some job from overseas, nearby neighboring countries in Marine division, and underground metro at various places, as you know, the tender being quoted. So that is what the 2 areas we are focusing most at this stage. Specifically, underground metro, as you know, been tendered at many places like Chennai and Kolkata and Kanpur. So we are trying to get some of them. Marine jobs also, 3 marine jobs in Maldives, Bangladesh we are targeting.
Okay. And sir, you mentioned that Ganga Expressway was a significant contributor for revenue in the last year. So how much did it contribute last year? And how much will it contribute this year? And can you give us the major revenue contributors in terms of projects for the next year?
Ganga Expressway last year, I think very, very, very limited. Last term is the year which has just got completed around INR300-odd crores have contributed. But the important issue is that they have started the job in the month of January. So during this last quarter itself it has contributed INR300 crores, in the beginning of the project, which is quite significant. And this year also Ganga Expressway will contribute quite substantially in the top line. Yes. And then Chennai Metro, Bangalore Metro and few other marine jobs in Colombo and [ Bangladesh ] they are the main contributors this year. Hello?
Hello?
Mr. Nikhil Abhyankar. Does that answer your question?
Yeah. Just a final question. We had announced an order of INR8.8 billion for Thal Sena Bhawan, but it is not included in the order book as of now. So is it [ L1 ] still?
No. I think we have secured this order in last -- this last quarter. It is included in the order book number what you are seeing.
Okay. Because in that notification, it was mentioned, INR8.8 billion was the total order. And so, and in this presentation, it is 80L.
No, no. That's been included. It is included in the order book.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Dhananjay Kumar Mishra from Sunidhi Securities.
Congratulations for the very strong performance for Q4 as was FY '23. Just, my first question is with respect to order inflow. So till December itself, we have INR8,000 crore order inflow, and we were allowing 2 projects, including this Bangladesh transmission project. So what is the status of Bangladesh project, as of now, that is INR2000 crores?
Bangladesh project we are still L1, that is still not been awarded to us. So it continues to be L1 as of date.
Okay. So 27 million, L1 still there apart from INR20,000 crore order book we have on closing basis, right?
L1 position is about INR1,500 crores, INR1,600 crores.
So L1 is INR1,600 crores -- that is Bangladesh transmission line?
That is mainly Bangadesh. That's correct.
Okay. And last year -- last 2 years, we are having a good profit in JV, close to INR32 crore. So this year, I think these JVs are -- because the metro project is over. So these kind of profits will not come in FY '24, is it the right undertanding?
No, I don't think you are understanding it correct. It depends on the order mix and where is the orders that we are getting from. So, if the JV orders are getting completed, we have got new orders in the stand-alone company as well. So I mean the JV projects are -- they are our own projects, they are under our management, and we are executing those projects. So I mean, it just depends on where the orders come from, if order is coming from JVs, then that is disclosed separately in our results. And if the orders having the main company, then they are disclosed separately. So it's just a matter of presentation. Otherwise, there is no difference.
Okay. So 10% EBITDA margin, this is excluding of JV profit, right? Because, last -- this quarter itself, we have done about 9% EBITDA margin. So 10% is...
You're talking about the overall profitability here. We are not differentiating between the JV projects and other projects. Whatever numbers, the PAT is being reported and we are going based on the reported numbers.
Okay. And this Chennai and Kolkata Metro, which were under pipeline. So when do you expect this order to be, I mean, tendered? Or these marine jobs, I mean, next 6 months or next 3 months, what is the time line?
Time line depends upon how the client take it forward. We have submitted our bid, and technically, if these are all accepted and evaluated then the evaluation of the price bid will happen once the tender is open. But generally speaking, it should be [ under ] by 2 to 3 months' time.
Okay. So that will be significant in the first half, and then order inflow? Can we expect...
Yeah. If we are lowest, if we get the job, yes.
That is first. Okay sir, that's all of my side.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pratik Kothari from Unique Portfolio Managers.
Sir, my first question is on this loss which we reported in our JV. Can you just highlight what is it regarding?
Yes. Some loss have declared. What happened is, this job has been completed 2 years back and the certification process also almost done. During the process of the work, we did some additional work for which ad-hoc payment was received. But the certification is still getting delayed, and we thought to provide that amount as a loss. Yes.
So any more expected in here? I mean, and which projects would this be?
This is Delhi elevated CC26.
Okay. And this INR28 crores of impairment that we see in our cash flows, this will be the same?
Sorry, come again?
In our cash flow, we see INR28 crores of impairment allowance on financial assets, nonfinancial assets. So it is the same or it's something different?
It's not the same. The provision for doubtful debts on the stand-alone is basically expected credit loss provisions that we have given in the books.
Okay. But -- so this has gone up from, this amount is the [ gain ]?
That is why it is being disclosed separately.
Sorry. Come again, sorry, I missed that.
The INR27 crore provision for doubtful debts is in the stand-alone entity, whereas this loss in the one of the JV projects, which was completed a couple of years back. So this is different from the PDD provision for doubtful debts.
Okay. Fair enough. But coming to provision for doubtful debts, I mean, it went from INR9-odd crores to INR28 now. Any reason we were expecting that a lot of our legacy provisions, et cetera, were all done and dusted. So why that's a large number?
No, this is largely coming out of the expected credit loss provision. It is a requirement under the accounting standards. So that is how we have provided for it. We don't expect this amount to result in a loss, but the accounting standards requires us to make this provision. And based on that, we have made this provision in the books, but we expect to recover the money in full. That is why it is at the provision. It is not the write-off.
Okay. Fair enough. Sure. And sir, in the last call, we had mentioned that by Q1 of FY '24, we should be closer to or almost doing double-digit margins. But I think now in the opening remark, we mentioned that it might be towards the end of the year. So what are we missing? I mean, are we dealing what double-digit margin guidance we had given earlier?
No, no, no. We have never said that we will achieve double-digit margin in Q1. We have always said that this will be a gradual process, and you will see the improvement during this year, that is FY '24. And when Mr. Basu made those initial comments, he said that we'll see that during the year. Now exactly in which quarter that will happen, it remains to be seen. But the trend is towards improvement in margins, and we should do -- we should be reaching that stage in some time during this year.
Fair enough. And when we say double digits, do we include the JV in that or we don't?
That's correct. We do.
We do include. Okay. Fair enough. And sir, my last question is on order inflow, I mean across various infra companies, the order booking for this quarter was substantially higher than what the booked, say last -- in quarter 3 or in the first 9 months. We have not seen that kind of order book. So is it that the competition has increased or currently, we have our plate full and hence, we don't want to go aggressive on that? I mean what's our process there?
No, I think it's a mix of everything and there is a time line issue, which company has bid for which job at when, that matters because in our segment like marine or underground segment, we might not have got in order in the last quarter, but prior to that they have got. We've seen totality. The totality is to see our order book has increased a lot in the year, INR8,000 crore plus.
Fair enough. And sir, my last question on the Karnataka, [ the circular ] which has come out, they are not -- stopping all work, not releasing payments. So if you can just highlight what -- I mean, we have explained what our exposure there is, but how much is with the local government there? Is there any changes in the kind of work we do?
No, no, I don't think there is any issue with that. There is some statement, I also -- somebody told me. We are doing 2 major work in Karnataka, one is underground metro at Bangalore, which is totally funded by some either by ADB or JIKA or somebody, and it is a joint venture of state government and central government. So there is no way that this job -- because, in fact, the new government also trying to increase the progress to achieve some milestone, about the underground metro, so there is no issue.And the second job we are doing, that is a defense job, Indian Navy, our project [indiscernible], that has got no connection with the state government. So I don't think it is to be taken in the sense of what we are doing.
Fair enough. Great, and all the best.
[Operator Instructions]. The next question is from the line of Rajesh Kumar Rathi from Right Shopping Private Limited.
I have 2 questions. One question is about the provision for income tax. I think this quarter, the provisions in something like 45%. So what is the reason for that? And what is your guidance for next quarter onwards?
When the provision for tax is worked down, it's worked on not on the profit before tax that you see in the reported numbers, but there is an element of some losses that we have taken in the JV projects or the provision for the doubtful debts, the expected credit loss that we have recognized during the quarter. So that gets added back to the profit and hence, the taxable profit for [ computing ] the tax liability is higher. And the tax provision is made on that number, not on the PBT that you see on the face of [ other debts ].
Okay. So what is the guidance for next quarter onwards? Would it be something like 25%, 26% or more than that?
Gradually, it should come to that level. I think, in the next quarter onwards, it should be around 25%.
Okay. My second question is about the top line for '24. I think, you'll be doing substantial Ganga Expressway project next year, which should be something around INR1,800 to INR2,000 as added before. So if I deduct that from the top line guidance of about 20%, 25% growth, the rest of the thing, there is no growth at all, it seems. So how do you explain that?
But why should we deduct that [ rule ]. This is the order that we have won, we are in the process of executing the order, we must definitely consider when we look at the growth of the company's revenue this year versus the previous year. There is no reason for us to exclude the turnover from the Ganga Expressway project.
Okay. Understood.
We have the next question from the line of [ Ramanan Venkateswaran from MK Ventures. ]
Congratulations for a great set of numbers. Just a couple of questions. Again, like last time, I don't know, our projects were threshold levels for margin recognitions have not been reached, one. Second is on the Bangalore Elevated Expressway, do we expect completion by the end of first quarter or probably second quarter of this year? That is the second. And last, of course, is what do we see as the project pipeline for us going forward?
I think I'll start from the last one. Project pipeline as we have been discussing, we have -- around INR17,000 crores domestic tenders are in the pipeline. There are a few international jobs put together will be around INR3,000 crores to INR4,000 crores. And in the domestic part of them are marine and part of our underground metro and some building. And internationally, we have got 2 marine job in Bangladesh and one job in Maldives. These are the main job we are targeting, and we are actively working for in tender process.Now your second question was Bangalore Metro Elevated. Bangalore Metro Elevated in all respect, now it is completed. That is the physical work is completed.
Okay.
4 jobs. 2 jobs already have got the Taken Over certificate, that is as you know in the Whitefield area, the trains are already running. So they have taken over and other side also ones they have taken over. Last one, which is near, via -- what is the name, I forgot, anyway. So that job also the, last span of the bridge, which was under construction is over now. So in physical sense, all the work in Bangalore Metro has been completed. Okay. And so, what was the first question?
And for you to say that this is fully completed, where I mean everything gets sorted out. It will take 3 to 6 months for you post that?
Completed, in the sense, the physical work has been completed. Now our balance remaining part that is finalizing of the pre-final bill, final bill. Reconciliation of the material, winding up of the site. So those things will continue. Normally, what are the remaining jobs is completed within 6 to 7 months' time, minimum.
Okay. Okay. And my first question was projects where we have not reached threshold levels for margin recognition in the last quarter?
Among the larger projects are the projects that we are executing in Colombo and the Thal Sena project that was awarded to us last year. I think, other than that, we are recognizing margin for almost all the other projects.
Okay. So in terms of value, how much would that be? Because in the previous year, we had something like INR200 crores of revenue, did not have margin recognition?
Mr. Ramanan, I don't have that number at the moment. Maybe offline, we can [indiscernible] those numbers.
Sure. Okay, fine.
[Operator Instructions]. The next question is from the line of [ Vignesh Iyer from Sequent Investments. ]
Congratulations, sir on good set of numbers and strong execution. I just wanted to understand one thing on the accounting part of it. Is that, we have paid a very high tax at consolidated level as compared to the earlier year. I just wanted to understand, going ahead, what would be -- are we shifting to a lower tax rate of 25%, 26%?
Yes, yes. We will be seeing the tax rate coming down to 25%. It's just like the EBITDA that we have reported in this quarter is after considering a provision for the expected credit loss and some losses that we have taken on our JV projects. The actual PBT on this tax liability is completed is higher than the number that you see in the reported financials. So that is the reason, but gradually next -- from the subsequent quarters, we see the tax rate coming down to around 25%.
But sir, even if I take the entire year, we have actually paid more than what -- I understand on quarter 4 part. Usually, the adjustment needs to be done. But overall, as a year itself, we have paid more tax, right?
No, I don't think we have paid more tax. The tax computation has been done correctly. As I mentioned, there are 2, 3 components, profit, loss in the joint ventures, and the provision for doubtful debt and the expected credit loss; if you adjust the reported PBT for these numbers and they calculate the tax at 25%, you'll come to the number that we mentioned in our reported numbers.
Okay, sir. I'll probably do it. Sir, another thing being, sir, on the share of profits that you collected from joint venture. Now we've been doing some consistently 30 plus for the last 2 years. Just wanted to understand, do you think we can maintain the profitability at this level?
No, in fact, the order mix in our order book is changing, but we are getting more and more projects in the stand-alone company, and there is no need for us to go into joint ventures. So if the order book is largely in the stand-alone companies and the profitability will also be in the stand-alone entity. And the profit or loss of the deal projects will taper off, we may see some profits in the current year, that is FY '24. But beyond that, we don't see any significant contribution coming in from JVs.
Okay. Fair enough, sir.
[Operator Instructions]. The next question is from the line of an Pujan Shah from Congruence Advisers.
First question would be, are we seeing any delay in project execution or any projects has been like what -- any time line we have specified and then it has been delayed due to feasibility issues or political issues anywhere?
No, not really.
Okay. And so, the total order tender would be -- what would be the numbers? I think, I just missed out that.
Tender under pipeline?
Are you talking about tenders in pipeline or submitted.
Yes, yes. Sir, I'm talking about the total tender we have done till date for the project pipeline. So, coming up - the upcoming projects?
Around INR17,000 crores tender, we are pursuing.
And we have the conversion ratio of 20%, right? So that is what we have maintained initially?
Yes, that is what has been the historical data, yes.
Yes. Okay. So sir, with that perspective, if you look into it, we have already at INR20,000 crores. And [ if you see this conversation ], it could be around INR3,500 crores. So on our total order book, it is less than 20% growth. So are we seeing any slowdown in the economic scenario or what are we looking into it?
No, I don't think so because we have a plan for this year. And we know this year how much of work we can execute from the quarter in hand, and how much work we should secure to meet our target. And we are comfortable with that. Whatever tenders we are pursuing or whatever future prospect we have, I think it's okay.
Okay. And sir, we have started the Srilanka port or it will be started from this April, like this Q1 FY '24?
Our work already started, permanent work already have started installing foundation work at Srilanka, and that...
Okay. Okay. So the recognition will be slow in Q -- from this fiscal year?
Yes. It's an initial time. So it will take to -- maybe 2 quarters to come to our threshold limit.
And sir, last question would be -- of mine would be, we have guided a revenue of INR6,500 crores. That's correct, right? I have heard that.
Yes, INR6,500 crores, I think that is the number, we have mentioned.
So this is the number actually what we have previously said is, we have been executing INR6,000 crores, now we have reached that. So are we seeing that the execution pipeline would be more stronger in the terms because we have been saying that this is the highest growth in terms of revenue. So are you saying the execution period will be more faster? Or we are saying the order book will be more stronger and the execution will be what we have assumed?
See, it depends upon the size of the job you do. I mean, nowadays, [ 50 ] is a job, what we are doing are quite weak. But at the same time, for a small job and for a big job, the completion times are almost same, 2 years to 2.5 years. So naturally, if you have [ pacing on ] jobs like Ganga Expressway or Bangalore Metro or even other marine jobs, tangible jobs. So the run rate will be much bigger than previously what used to do.
Okay, sir. So the total order book, if you see is INR20,000 crores, and we are saying that the execution pipeline would be 2.5 years. So are we being conservative on the revenue guidance, because the price if you convert also by 2.5, it would be much better revenue in terms of execution. If you're now consider the order inflow?
[ We'll also ] think, what could be the number.
Okay. No issue.
The next question is from the line of Prem Khurana from Anand Rathi Shares.
So most of my questions are already answered.
Sir, sorry to interrupt, but the line -- the volume for you is very low. If you could please speak closer to the mic, it will be better.
Hello? Is it better now?
Yes, this is much better
Yes, yes.
Sir, it's bookkeeping question. So when I look at our order backlog and look at the geographical breakup that you've given in your presentation, Gujarat number seems to have come down substantially. I mean, from some INR1,800-odd crores to INR800 crores? Or have you removed any orders from there? And same is the case with marine. I mean, there is a sharp drop sequentially, so what could explain this drop in the Gujarat or let's say, marine number?
Well, I think there are 2 factors. Normally, marine jobs are executed very fast. I mean, if you have an underground metro, it would take 4.5 years to 5 years, same kind of marine job, we executed in 2 years. So that is one thing.And second, a few of the running contract, small job, 2 or 3 jobs, which we are now not taken even because they are temporarily suspended. So unless we know what will be the final stand, we have removed it from the order book.
Sure, sir. [Indiscernible] some of these projects would be essentially new, wherein you are still to start, which is where you would have decided to kind of do these projects back? I mean, wherever you have already made some progress in the idea of going ahead and continue because, I mean, last time you highlighted the payment cycle is still good for running orders.
Well, running payments are kind of still very good. Ganga Expressway we are getting paid within 10 to 15 days of our billing. But I think I have also mentioned that there are 2 kinds of jobs we are doing for Adani, some jobs are captive jobs. They want to build their own facility at their own port. So that they have kept in hold for a few more months or quarter. So hopefully, they'll start and we'll start the walk again.
And as far as Ganga is concerned, the execution cycle is 27 months for us?
Yes.
And we are on track, right? I mean, to be able to finish -- we would be able to finish it in that kind of time line?
Yes, 27 months for INR5,000 crore job is very tight. But so far, the way it is going on, we are hopeful that we'll be able to do that.
Sure. And sir, in terms of CapEx, it's been on a higher side this year, more than 400, I'm assuming and this would be essentially because of Chennai and the Bangalore underground. So what ideally should be the number for the next year? I mean, assuming this is order backlog. I understand, I mean, if you were to get some new order wherein you may require a kind of procure some new equipment, it could go higher. But then otherwise, what ideally should be the number, I'm assuming, I mean, it will be the same mix that you would be able to have in FY '24 in terms of order inflows?
Well, it depends upon the mix type of job. Essentially for the underground metro, you have very high -- the machine costs are very high, like tunnel boring machine, trench cutter, et cetera, which we have to purchase for Bangalore and Chennai. So definitely it will come down because we don't expect that much of underground metro job, we will be bid for. And even if we bid, already the machines that we have, those can be utilized.
Sure. And also, I missed, if you could share your thoughts on the debt part as well in this quarter, the net debt has come down substantially. Part of it is I'm assuming as explained by the year-end phenomena wherein the government authorities and to release payments because they want to exhaust their budget. Fair to assume, they will normalize in Q1 and Q2. And again, we'll get to have similar sort of reduction in Q4 or Q3 because H2 generally tends to be better in terms of payment cycle.
Yes, that's correct. That is what we have seen over the years, and we expect that to continue.
Sure, sir. That's it from my end, all the very best for the future.
The next question is from the line of Alisha Mahawla from Envision Capital.
Sir, needed 2 clarification to comments made earlier. One is, you said that our pipeline currently for '24 is about INR17,000 crores and we normally have a take up 20%. But we've also mentioned that the kind of orders inflow we're looking for is INR8,000 crores. So there's a significant gap, if you could just help me on this?
See, the tender have keep on coming. I mean it is not that whatever we start with that will be the whole year figure. Again, we'll get some new tender tomorrow, next month, so on and so forth. So, so far, we have got INR17,000 crores. We may get some jobs from there, again new tender will come. So it goes like that.
While I understand that, these are tenders that are currently announced, at least we know that they can get finalized in the next 1 year. We know that this is a slow on a long process. Anything new that gets announced, will it get closed in the financial year for us to see the kind of inflow we're targeting?
Yes. If you target big jobs, each jobs INR5,000 INR6,000 crores, like that 4, 5 tenders if we do we may expect some order from there. So this is a process of whole year and INR17,000 crores, whatever we have, this may increase next month also. So it's quite assumable, I think INR8,000 crores new order is not very difficult.
Sure. Understood. Great. And my second question is with respect to margins. We mentioned that we target double-digit margins. Are we targeting it for the full year? Or are you saying -- sometimes during the year, we will hit it in some -- or a particular quarter, but it may not be double digit for the entire year?
No, it depends upon how it goes. Gradually, we'll try to -- our margin will be better and better. Now it is around 9%. Maybe next quarter, it will be little bit more than that. So end of the year, how much where we are -- that we need to see, but we'll hit double-digit margin in this year, that is what we expect some quarters.
In some quarters. Okay. Great.
The next question is from the line of Deep Mehta from Bank of India Mutual Fund.
Congratulations, sir, for a very good set of numbers. Most of my questions have been answered. I just had 2 questions. First is regarding our legacy Bangalore Metro order. Sir, what is the expected receivables, which is still pending and including the claims which we may have to charge them?
Well, Bangalore Metro, as far as financials are concerned, we have our pre-final bill and final bill submitted and being submitted for large jobs. So that needs to be certified. The amount receivable is, I have to check. I don't have the number immediately with me. But physically, work is completed, as I have just mentioned.
Approximate number will also do.
Approximate number also will do.
We can get back to you offline on this. Maybe it's not readily available right now with us.
Sure, sir. And my second question is regarding margins. Like you said, slowly and steadily the margins will improve. And by this year, we will hit double-digit any quarter. So is it fair to assume that with the current order book, which we are having in FY '25, we will have double-digit margins for full year as a whole?
Yes, that is the expectation based on whatever work we have. And if we get few jobs with good margin, we should have double-digit margin next year for sure, yes.
Sure, sir. This is very helpful.
The next question is from the line of Jaitra Mayani from ICICI Securities. Jaitra Mayani, the line for you has been unmuted.
Yes, yes. Am I audible?
Yes, you are audible, sir.
Okay. So my first question is when I look at the balance sheet on the asset side, there is a line item called contract assets, which is unbilled work in progress. I wanted to ask if we have a number for the same thing as in contract liabilities? Because I don't see that mentioned.
No, there is no number as contract liabilities, but the corresponding number would be included in other current liabilities, I guess. Yes.
And would you be able to give the breakup for that? Or is it just clubbed as other current liabilities?
No, it is in the range of INR375 crores, INR400 crores.
Okay. And my second question is, if you could give a rough number for the CapEx, next year.
CapEx this year in FY '23 has been about INR300 crores.
Okay. And next year, what would be the rough estimate?
Next year, it will be lower than this. This year it has been a bit different because of the orders that we have secured in the last year and in the previous year earlier. So we don't expect the CapEx to be that high this year. I guess, it could be in the range of INR100 crores, INR100-plus crores in this year.
Okay. Understood.
[Operator Instructions]. The next question is from the line of Sunil M. Kothari from Unique Portfolio Managers.
Sir, just one question. You bring in this business and this India experience, so many years of experience. What precaution are we taking to lose money on some maybe because of some reasoning? And internally, you try your best to have a solid contract, very clear guidelines and terms and conditions. What precaution additional we are -- precaution taking with your vast experience that we may not lose very big on any project? If you can detail a little bit, qualitatively?
Yes, I think it starts from the process of selection of the bid. So we have our own risk mitigation system in our company. So which bid to go for and not to go for is the first and foremost important thing that we do. And then, the selection of the -- once we select the bid and we submit the bid, while submitting also we take care of the risk, which is involved for this job. Some jobs may have got different type of risk, more risk or less risk that we factored in our price. And then eventually, when we get the job when it comes to operations, we have to put a proper plan and methodology and put proper person. People there to execute the job. This is how it goes.
Okay. Sir, but my question I'm trying to understand is compared to the last 2000-2007 upcycle of CapEx, so many companies have got very big orders, big business, but ultimately, they lost very -- used money also. So what precaution or what learning or what experience we are utilizing to maybe avoiding those type of some unfortunate things which might have -- I mean, it can happen to us?
Yes, I think we should have a separate session with you, because this is a very big subject. But you have to understand that we are in this business for the last 90 years plus. We have got our inherent culture to risk mitigate and risk mitigation committee. It's a big subject. It depends on which segments we are working, what is the area geographically, who are the client -- and what team we have, what machines we have, many factors are there. And we apply our knowledge and experience to mitigate the risks.
Wish you good luck.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was our last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Thank you very much for joining us on this Q4 FY '23 Earnings Call. We look forward to interacting with you again next quarter. Thank you, once again.
Thank you. On behalf of ICICI Securities, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.