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Indian Railway Catering and Tourism Corporation Ltd
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Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the IRCTC Q4 FY '24 Earnings Conference Call, hosted by Dolat Capital. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded.
I now hand the conference over to Mr. Rahul Jain from Dolat Capital. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Gus. Good afternoon, everyone. On behalf of Dolat Capital, we welcome you all to the Q4 conference and annual results for IRCTC Limited. I take this opportunity to welcome the management of IRCTC, represented by Mr. Sanjay Kumar Jain, who is CMD of the company; and Mr. Ajit Kumarji, who is Director of Finance and CFO of the company. Also, we have today with us Dr. Lokiah Ravikumarji, who is Director of Catering Services; and Mr. Rahul Himalianji, who is Director for Tourism and Marketing segment.
And now, I would like to hand the conference over to IRCTC Management to take the proceeding forward. Over to you, please.
Thank you, Rahul. A very good afternoon to everybody and a warm welcome to this con call of IRCTC for the quarter, year-ending March 2024. At the outset, I'm happy to announce that your company has achieved its highest ever revenue and highest ever profit, setting a new benchmark in its journey as a listed company.
I shall first give an overall view about financial year 2024 and quarter -- this quarter results, post which, I will ask my Director of Finance and CFO to provide the details of the performance of our company, business-wise, segment-wise. We shall have then the question-and-answer session.
I am pleased to report that Q4 has been an exceptional quarter for our company, in which we have achieved an all-time high revenue of INR 1,155 crores. This represents a robust growth of 19.7% year-on-year. The catering segment has notably driven this quarter revenue, showcasing the strength and potential of this business area.
For the financial year 2024, we have achieved a remarkable operating revenue of INR 4,270 crores, reflecting a substantial growth of more than 20% year on year. Our EBITDA raised at INR 1,466 crores, marking a 15.2% increase year-on-year. PAT before exceptional items for the financial year is outstanding INR 1,170 crores, significantly up from INR 978 crores year-on-year basis. Overall, these results underscore our company's strong performance and resilience. We look forward to continue this positive momentum and delivering sustained growth and profitability in the coming quarters.
Our Board has recommended a final dividend of INR 4 per share subject to shareholders' approval, which takes the total dividend of INR 6.5 per share for this financial year. The total dividend of INR 6.50 per share for the face value of INR 2 per share, the highest ever dividend declared in the history of IRCTC.
I'd like to conclude my opening remarks and shall hand over the call to my colleague and Director of Finance, CFO; Mr. Ajit Kumar to brief you on the financial and segmental performance of the company. Thank you very much.
Good afternoon, everybody, and I hope you and your dear ones are in good health. I shall first give a brief overview about annual performance and then Q4 FY '24 results, post which, I'll have the question-and-answer session.
The annual performance of FY '24. Our annual operating revenue for FY '24 reached an impressive INR 4,270 crores, reflecting a substantial 20.5% year-over-year growth. This achievement underscores our sustained momentum and a strategic expansion efforts. Absolute EBITDA increased by 14.89% year-over-year to INR 1,466 crores with our EBITDA margin remaining stable at 34.3% compared to 36% year-over-year. This stability demonstrates our effective management as well as operational efficiency despite changes in our revenue mix. Net profit before exceptional items sore to INR 1,170 crores, significantly higher than INR 978 crores in the previous year.
Now quarterly performance, that is Q4 FY '24. For Q4 FY '24, we achieved another quarter of robust growth with revenues reaching INR 1,155 crores, marking a 3.3% quarter-over-quarter and just under 20% year-over-year increase. This growth was primarily driven by our Catering segment, which despite its relatively lower margin contributed significantly to our overall revenue.
Now the business segments highlights with different segments. The first one, Internet Ticketing, the Internet Ticketing segment continues to demonstrate this resilience, especially with the transition of reserved ticket back to unreserved ticket as during the pre-pandemic period. The segment reported a revenue of INR 342.4 crores, growing by 2.1% quarter-over-quarter and 16% year-over-year. EBIT margin remains robust at 80.3% despite minor variations, that is 83% quarter-over-quarter and 88.1% year-over-year, reflecting our strong market position and operational efficiency.
Now, the next segment is Catering. Our Catering segment maintained its strong growth momentum with revenue rising to INR 530.8 crores, an increase of 4.5% quarter-over-quarter and 34.1% year-over-year. While the EBIT margin moderated to 8.7%, that is 15.4% quarter-over-quarter and 12.1% year-over-year. The segment's revenue growth underscores the increasing demand and our ability to scale operations effectively as per the need.
Next segment is Tourism. The Tourism segment showed a solid quarter-over-quarter growth of 3.2% with revenue at INR 201.7 crores. Although there was a slight year-over-year decline, the EBIT margin was strong at 9.4%, that is 12.1% quarter-over-quarter and 13.5% year-over-year, indicating the segment's resilience and potential for future growth.
The next segment is Rail Neel. The Rail Neel reported steady revenue of just under INR 80 crores, stable quarter-over-quarter, while achieving a 13.9% year-over-year growth. The EBIT margin improved significantly to 13.3%, recovering from a loss on a quarter-over-quarter basis and achieving 18.6% on a year-on-year basis, showcasing our efforts to enhance profitability as well as the market reach.
Now, the overall, our Q4 FY '24 results highlights, a successful year of growth and a strategic execution. We remain committed to building on this momentum and delivering sustained value to our stakeholders. For Q4 FY '24, the CapEx was INR 55 crores taking the CapEx for FY '24 to finally INR 240 crores. The cash and bank balances to the company, as of the end of FY '24, is INR 2,263 crores and net worth is INR 3,230 crores.
This brings me to the end of my opening remarks. And if there is -- we will have the question-and-answer session now, and if there is specifically any data, which is -- I mean, very minor data or any specific data, then you can always e-mail to the CRO, Mr. Anil Sharma. And then, they will provide the data as per the -- I mean, based out of the books of accounts. So now we can straightaway move to the question-and-answer session. Thank you.
[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Jinesh Joshi.
Sir, my question is on our Catering division. So if I look at our EBIT margin, which used to hover in the band of about 15% to 17% in the last 3 quarters, they have come down to about 8.7%. So any specific reason for such a sharp deterioration? And how should we look at the margin trajectory over the next couple of quarters?
Mr. Joshi, it's a nice question, and very pertinent one. I know that all of you must be liking to know the reason for the dip. In fact, if you see -- if you compare our Catering revenue of -- on a quarter-to-quarter basis of last, say, quarter of -- fourth quarter of 2023, and this quarter 4 of 2024, you will see that the revenue is almost the same. Last year, it was INR 48 crores. This year, it is INR 46 crores. The reason being, you see the -- in the segment side, the revenue from Catering has increased manyfold. It has increased by, say, INR 500 crores and -- yes, during the year. And in the quarter also, it has increased from INR 507 crores to INR 530 crores. So what happened? Because of charging of -- assigning overhead cost as per the revenue segment, this booking of expenditure of administrative nature has been done on this segment more than any other segment.
Then, we have a 5% cost on our GST for the mobile catering services, which we provide. And during this quarter, this is like -- if you see the history, this is the highest in -- generally higher compared to other quarters. And what we have done, because of our long-term catering contract, which we have already entered to and in the process of entering a few more, what we have done, we have provided a depreciated cost of 9 departmental kitchens, which we are running at the moment, which we will not be running anymore after finalization of all the contracts. That also we have provided, INR 2 crores of that total. So that is -- these are the main reasons for this.
As far as your concern for future, I see there is no problem ahead because we are already working on long-term contracts. Our e-catering business has already crossed 1 lakh mark per day. Our -- we have entered into an MoU with Central Armed Police Forces. We are sure to get new trains, many more new trains because of the addition of the capacity by railways. And last, but not the least, you are aware that -- we all are aware of that 1,400 ABSS stations are -- Amrit Bharat Stations are being upgraded. We have an opportunity to grab many business there of static type, like food plazas at stations along with retiring room, et cetera. So I see a robust future rather than a concern.
Sure, sir. Just a related follow-up. You mentioned that there was some one-off pertaining to 9 departmental catering unit -- the cost pertaining to this catering unit. And if I heard it right, you mentioned that amount was INR 2 crores, which again is not a very big sum. And again, you also highlighted that there was 5% GST on mobile catering, but I believe that should be a pass-through. So I'm still not very clear as to what basically led to a sharp deterioration because from INR 78 crores in terms of absolute EBIT, we are down to about INR 46 crores, which is a swing of about INR 30 crores, INR 40 crores. So if you can just probably call out one big cost line item, which is sitting in the...
I got your point, Mr. Joshi. I mentioned about INR 2 crores that I want to be very fair with us that we don't want to continue with the legacy. If you are closing down, then INR 2 crores is also a very important figure. But the main reason which I told you was the annual overhead charging onto the segment of administrative cost.
I'll just give you an example of it. INR 21 crores was the administrative cost. And because this segment revenue conforms to around 45% to 50% of the revenue, so around 50% of that has been charged on this segment. So though our overall profit is best ever, we have followed that formula of charging overhead as per the segmental revenue. So here, we have charged around INR 11 crore.
This is much clear. Sir, second bookkeeping question is with respect to the jump in CWIP on your balance sheet. So if I see the CWIP number for FY '24, that is at about INR 440 crores. And the swing is quite high because in FY '23, that number was INR 33 crore. So can you highlight what does this pertain to given the fact that we do not have any major CapEx lined up?
Last year, it was as an advance -- capital advance for making our offices. This year, we have charged to capital works-in-progress. We have already bought it. We have paid it. We are already in the process of making our -- renovating the process for final view.
Okay. Got that. Sir, one last question from my side. If you can just provide a breakup between the convenience and non-convenience fee for the quarter and also the total number of tickets booked.
So you will be happy to know that this quarter we have booked an average daily tickets 12.91 lakh, which is the highest ever again. And this financial year, we have achieved a daily ticket booking of 12.38 lakh tickets per day as compared to 11.82 lakhs tickets per day last year.
Sir, and the breakup between convenience and non-convenience fee for the quarter, if you can just share that?
INR 1,183 crores of total non-convenience fee, and INR 224 crores is the convenience fee.
These are the figures for the full year, right?
We will give you the breakup. There is no problem. We will share that with you.
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Pranav Mashruwala from Dolat Capital.
Sir, just a question on Catering business. So right now, we have about 470-plus trains and 700-plus trains under Tier 3. So what are our plans to add more units for FY -- whatever current units under FY '24? And what would be your plans for FY '25?
Yes. Mr. Pranav, we -- at the moment, putting together, we are running 1,265 units in all. And this includes all kinds of contracts, mobile contracts. But as the new trains will get introduced, we'll add the numbers. I can't give that number right now because it is basically over the years regularly trains are introduced, and we are asked to provide the catering services.
Now, your concern, maybe how many more numbers we'll be able to add. So what is the expectation? So exact number, I can't give, but we all listen from the various speeches or various notification or various press release by railways and its ministry, we get to know that mostly they are now working to introduce more and more number of Vande Bharat trains. And this opens for us a very good opportunity to add numbers and numbers and numbers.
And the current capacity utilization at -- about -- of our Rail Neel plants?
You see, last year, it was 11 lakh bottles per day that we were utilizing. This year, we have improved it to 12 lakh bottles per day. And you will be happy to know that at the moment, we are like utilizing around -- supplying around 14.5 lakh bottles per day.
This is a bit lesser than FY '23. FY '23, we had about 15.52 lakh bottles per day, so [indiscernible].
No, no, that may be a peak average because what I got the information, I will capture it. It was 11 lakh only. And this year, it has improved to 12 lakh for this benefit.
And the next question is from the line of [ Rohit Jain from Tara Capital ].
Am I audible?
Yes, sir.
Just some more questions regarding the catering business. Can you help us understand what's the status of the dispute on license fee? Where are we on that? And whenever that dispute is resolved, how much incremental revenue from licensee fee can we expect going forward?
I could not get your name, sorry.
Yes, my name is Rohit. Rohit Jain.
Rohit, you know that this matter is under sub judice. And I should not share this in a public forum. Thank you very much.
Okay. I mean I understand that, but can you just tell us how much is the claim from your side? I mean, how much are you claiming that you are entitled to receive?
You see, it would not be good on my part to share any number.
Fair enough. Fair enough. So for the year, the margin for the catering business, I think, was around 12%, if I'm not mistaken. There were some overhead expenses that you had to allocate in the fourth quarter. Can you help us sort of -- can you tell us what would the margin look like for FY '25? What is the number that we should work with for the entire year?
See, our -- I'm looking forward to around 15%.
Okay. So FY '25, 15% is the number that we should sort of work with?
Yes.
Understood. And in the quarter, there was a sequential decline in the margins for the Ticketing segment. I think it declined from 83-odd percent level to 80%. Can you help us understand what drove that? And what is the kind of number that we should work with in this segment going forward?
Yes. You see, it is -- because of the government policy on UPI. Nowadays, UPI is much more in use. And there, we are charging less than a normal ticketing, right? Here, we charge INR 20 and INR 10, around 1/3 in discount tickets.
So can you tell us what was the percentage of tickets booked using UPI in this quarter versus earlier quarters? And what should we expect going forward?
Exact figure, I will give you for the quarter by details. But overall, you see it has increased to 39%. It was 33%.
So it has increased from 39% to -- 33% to 39%. So would it be fair to say that if this number stays around this level, then 80% would be the new norm for convenience fee?
I could not get your question.
Sorry. I mean what I'm trying to say is that if the percentage of tickets booked using UPI, let's say, is around 39% going forward then should the margin in the Ticketing segment be around 80% going forward?
See, you should see it like this in absolute terms, how much we are increasing. And from 83% booking as one day, how can we improve to say 85% kind of thing. So here, I have to say 2 things. First thing is, yes, something between 80%, 83%. That's if you take a real assess about this. But if you see that we are exploring on non-convenience fee to improve our margin.
Okay. I have 2 more questions. One question that I have is, when should we expect, let's say, next round of tariff hikes for the Catering segment?
It's an ongoing process and it is not dependent on us. It is taken by -- a decision taken by a ministry based on many things. One amongst them is the market inflation and all.
Okay. But -- I mean any tentative time line, whether it's -- it can happen this year, next year? Or do you have any clarity at all?
You see last time also I told that life expectancy has now increased to 79 years. So we can't say that each person will live to that and who will live to that. So what I'm trying to say and suggest here that I'm not the authority so I should not comment. Whenever the situation arises, it happens.
And just one last feedback from my side, and this has been mentioned on IRCTC's call earlier also. It would be really helpful if you can release the deck with your earnings release, which has all the granular data regarding number of tickets booked using UPI, a number of tickets booked every day. It would be helpful for us as investors, if you -- if we have a deck so that we can sort of get those data in a readily available manner.
I don't see any problem in this.
And the next question is from the line of Madhuchanda Dey from MC Pro.
So I have a couple of questions. The first question is on the Tourism margin. I mean we see a drop again in the fourth quarter. And the margin has kind of been pretty volatile one earlier in the year. It was because of the haulage charges. So now can you explain what is the sustainable level of margin in the Tourism segment.
So it should be like 8% to 9%.
And any particular reason why it dropped to 5.9% in the fourth quarter?
Yes, because of charging of -- the haulage charge on Tejus revenue by Railways with retrospecting effect. That is the main cause.
So that continued in the fourth quarter also?
No, no. The issue is not that. The issue is that a retrospective, it implemented with the retrospective effect. And we have already we presented to Ministry of Railway in this regard.
Okay. Understood. So -- I mean what makes you confident about 8% kind of a margin going forward? The haulage charges will not be implemented? Or it is after factoring in the haulage charges?
I could not get your questions come again.
My question is in FY '25, would you still be glad to pay the haulage charges to the Railway?
See, if I run the train, I have to bring operating efficiency and do some marketing effort to improve our like occupancy and improved non-fare revenue. I have look forward for other -- [ it's true ] for the profit or margin or revenue. This is how -- have been like a railway or airlines work.
Okay. And my second question is a housekeeping one. You have reported a revenue of INR 342.4 crores in the Internet ticketing. If you could break it up between convenience and non-convenience, please?
Yes, it is around INR 224 crores is a convenience fee and remaining is a non-convenience.
And what is the total number of tickets sold in the fourth quarter?
It is 12.91 lakh per day. I can give you the numbers. That we'll be able to send you also. Let me see. Total ticket book is 11,74,45,000.
11,74,45,000. Okay. That's it.
Any such information you want, you can send mail to our CRO, Mr. Anil Sharma will be happy to share that.
Yes. As one of our colleague pointed out, if you could put it in a deck that would really be helpful. We will avoid all this housekeeping questions, hence forward.
My last question is which seg -- like in FY '24, Catering business was the key driver of revenue growth. Going forward in FY '25 and beyond, what are the segments which are going to kind of lead the growth according to you?
You see, if -- before answering that, first of all, let us understand or let me explain that, we are working in an environment and largely environment related to railway at the moment. And if you see how railway is growing or how infrastructure and railway is growing, how the opportunity in the economy growing and railway percent particularly growing. I see that business opportunity starts with booking of tickets and then serving these people with our catering [ railways ] and tourism packages or tourism products.
So I see -- whereas I see that there will be incremental growth in the ticketing, but we have yet to capture the other 3 products to -- it's a good level. So opportunity is there. Our product mix will certainly change and which is changing also, you see quarter-by-quarter. So in absolute terms, we will be certainly going very high. But as the product mix will increase, the profit margin of the segment will decide the ultimate things.
And the next question is from the line of Deepesh Lakhani from Dolat Capital.
Am I audible?
Yes, sir.
Yes. So I just wanted to know what led growth in state [ in the ] segment in this quarter?
You see this quarter is basically election declared. So model code of conduct has been implemented. So I can give you the figure. We will share the figure. But first say, this quarter, is not for this specific case of business because we have MoU with 6 or 7 states, but we are not able to run their trial, right? We have MoU with Chhattisgarh. We have MoU with Uttarakhand, Madhya Pradesh, Jharkhand, Goa, all these states we have MoU. There is a demand, but we are not able to -- we could not able to run the train because of model code of conduct.
Okay. And also wanted to know how many prepaid trains are there in catering? And the margins operated in prepaid catering are lower or higher than the non-prepaid ones?
You see there are 563 prepaid trains. Yes, just a moment. Please hold on. We have 120 prepaid trains and remaining 443 mail express trains and we have 702 this [ TFC ]. Certainly, if you go by the train, the train wise, then prepaid trains will have certainly better margin or better revenue potential than the mail express because here, you charge the customer at the time of booking the tickets. So it is certainly more.
Okay. And just a bookkeeping question. I wanted to know the IEPA revenues for this quarter.
It is around [ INR 100 ] something in this quarter.
Sorry, can you come again?
It is INR 22.35 crores.
And the next question is from the line of Ayush, an Individual Investor.
Just want to go ahead with regards to the catering business. So we have seen like good growth trajectory this year. Just wanted to understand about how the recent tie-ups with Swiggy, Zomato is playing out? And if you can comment on incremental revenue from -- incremental revenue contribution from the aggregators?
You see, we have started this year with around 60,000, 60,000 bookings per day, it has crossed 1 lakh mark during this month only. So it's a very good growing and already, we have boarded 2 main aggregators. So I feel that it's good business for us and we have 15% margin. You see, we booked around INR 1.5 crore worth of booking daily, and we get 15% out of that.
Okay. And is it like you have expanded to all the stations? Or is it just like 50, 60, which you highlighted like when -- once you signed up the MoU?
No. We have 407 stations already covered and we'll expand it slowly.
And how is the trajectory going ahead like in FY '25, what are your expectations with regards [ to the 2 ].
Internal target, we have [ cash around ] 1.5 lakh not to be disclosed.
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Hardik Kantaria, an Individual Investor.
Sir, I want to ask one question. A couple of quarters ago, we saw one filing that we have formed a new company with the payment gateway business. So I just wanted to ask, is it only for the bookkeeping side? Or do you also want to get into the payment gateway business as well?
No, we are applying for license with -- from RBI, of course, for payment gateway.
Does it mean that we'll provide the payment gateway services to the enterprises? Or is it only for the -- our own ticketing business?
Yes, it will be for everybody.
And the next question is from the line of Rattan Joneja from CoValue Technologies Pvt. Ltd.
Sanjay, sir, I have a few questions for you regarding Internet ticketing. My first question is about the recent announcement of the -- to remove the wait list passengers by the Indian Railways with a span of 3 to 5 years. Now does it mean that for these trains, the unreserved category will go away, and you will have to -- they will come on our site to book the tickets. That's my first question. Second question is our rates for convenience fees are the same as for Vande Bharat versus the normal other trains? Is there a plan to increase the tariffs or change it to the more -- percentage more in the near future?
Hello. Am I audible, Hardik?
Yes, sir.
You told about waiting list ticket in next 3, 4 years, very specifically 2,000 [ charges ]. And it does not mean that wait -- this unreserved ticketing will go away and the coaches will go away. What I could understand from the various notifications, not official notification, news reporting and all, the government is thinking of providing a smooth transition facility, transport facility that is environment friendly, that is railway. And there, you need not have a waiting list. [Foreign Language]. They will enhance the capacity to ensure that we give the ticket as we did that.
And if you see the pipeline, if you see the investment like INR 2.4 lakh crore being invested in railways, DFC also is coming up sharing line capacity from the [ diagonals ] and the number of [ coaches ] and locals being planned, number of Bharat -- Vande Bharat trains being planned.
So I think that does not mean that unreserved coaches will go away. That will remain there. In unreserved, you don't need a waiting list. You can board the train with the unreserved ticket. So that's the first question.
The second question is about the convenience fee in Vande Bharat train, which is this other trains. It is the same. There is no change. And is there any plan? Once we plan, you will know. Thank you very much.
As there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to management for closing comments.
Thank you very much for your I mean, insights and what we see the questions, there is always an opportunity to understand and learn and drive for the future. And if there is any other -- I mean, with your [indiscernible] and all that, the CRO, Mr. Anil Sharma, you can always send it and we love that your -- any suggestion is welcome. And so we look forward that in the next quarter, we will come with a new [ robust growth ]. Thank you very much.
On behalf of Dolat Capital, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.