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Ircon International Ltd
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Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. I'm Malika, moderator for this conference. Welcome to the conference call of Ircon International Limited arranged by Concept Investor Relations to discuss its Q3 and 9-month FY '21 results. We have with us today, Shri M.K. Singh, Director of Finance. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand over the floor to Shri M.K. Singh for his closing (sic) [ opening ] remarks. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Good evening to all of you. I welcome you to the con call for International -- Ircon International Limited to discuss the financial performance for third quarter ending December 31, 2020. At the outset, I must say that this year has been quite a roller coaster ride for all of us, and Ircon is no exception. Ircon has had certain very difficult times, especially in the first quarter and also, to some extent, in second quarter in respect of project execution progress. However, going forward, in Q3, we have made up more than what we expected ourselves. We have done well, not only in terms of physical parameters, but also in terms of financial achievements. So in the current financial year, the first highlight, which I would like to share with you is regarding the new orders. Ircon has already secured new orders worth INR 4,000 crores. In Q3 FY '21, we have secured an order of INR 1,623 crores. So in the 9-month period, around INR 4,000 crores is what we have secured by way of new orders. And these are pertaining to highway as well as railway system, not necessarily only from Ministry of Railways, but from other rail clients like NCRTC and core and Ministry of Railways themselves. As of December 31, 2020, the cumulative order book stands at INR 32,814 crores, out of which railway would constitute INR 30,700 crores and highway will -- is to the tune of INR 2,105 crores. With COVID-19 normalizing, execution of projects has started at a much faster pace, as I will share with you the turnover figures and other top line figures. In fact, if we go by the figures, then in the Q2 of the current year and in Q3 of the current year, we have shown an increase of 10% in terms of revenue from operations, means 10% work we have done more. And then -- yes, so Q2 FY '21 was INR 965 crores, and Q3 FY '21 is INR 1,244 crores, showing an increase of 28.88%. So in respect of last quarter, which was a bad quarter for us, we have shown an improvement of 28.88%. Overall, total revenue is showing a growth of 28.44% over Q2. Then PBT has a story to tell. We have a growth of 29.64% in the PBT compared to Q2 of the current financial year. PAT is showing an increase of 35%. EBITDA, 24.48%.So effectively, this year showed that we have truly picked up our pace, and we intend going strong and stronger in Q4. So even though we will not be able to fully make up for the lost time in the first half, but we certainly will surpass the performances which we did in Q3 and Q4 of last financial year. Cumulatively, for all the 4 -- for all the 4 quarters, we may not get the same top line and bottom line, obviously, because 6 months is a long time to really compensate in the later 6 months. But with this progress, we hope to continue in the same vein as we have done in the past, except for the unfortunate break which we had to take upon us during the pandemic.So coming to the figures, even if we compare Q3 of current year with respect to Q3 of last year, barring one exceptional income which came from one of our foreign projects amounting to INR 45 crores, that is if we exclude that INR 45 crores from our income of Q3 of last year, our current Q3 parameters in terms of bottom line are comparable and, in fact, a little better. So for the assurance of all the participants here, let me assure them that current Q3 is a little better than the last year Q3, except for one exceptional item which we had got by way of claims from Algeria project, amounting to INR 45 crores. But for that, we are comparable in current Q3 vis-à-vis the last Q3. And then in the PAT also, in the Q3, we had a tax refund of INR 20 crores, and that is how you'll see the larger value in terms of PAT also. But so far as operating revenue, et cetera, is concerned, we are right up there. We intend ending the year on a good note. And based on the Memorandum of Understanding which we have with the Department of Public Enterprises, we are sure that we will again be rated as outstanding even in the current year. We have had a review of our MOU targets just a few days back internally and we find that we are right up there. We will be meeting the targets and we will again be graded as outstanding. So except for revenue from operations, which was around INR 5,200 crores last year, the -- this will be a little lower for the simple reason that 6 months we hardly worked, but other parameters, we hope to do well in terms of ratios, in terms of percentages or in terms of physical achievement regarding completion of work is concerned. As I said, we look forward to working now really rigorously, given the fact that we have bagged works for INR 4,000 crores in the current year. That has made us really rejuvenated once again because it adds to our order book. And the visibility of the revenue for next 3 years, at least, is there. And we intend doing very well in the coming years and coming quarters. With this, I will close my opening remarks. And without going into each of the figures -- each of the exact figures in this con call, I will request and open the floor for questions into figures of Q3, Q2 or Q2 or anything and also any other general questions regarding Ircon. Thank you very much.
[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Sajal Agarwal, retail investor.
Sir, just wanted to get an update on the OFS time line. So last time, I remember you said it will be done in January or February. So we are already in the mid of February. So any update on that?
Thank you. Yes, OFS, as you know, the primary call is to be taken by Ministry of Finance, DIPAM. But as per the informal chat which we had with the authorities out there, they are still hoping to go in February only and that is the position till now. And OFS is likely to happen by end of this month or at the most by first week of next month.
Okay. And sir, I remember there was a land sale in Mumbai which you talked about in your last call. So any update on that?
Yes. There is an update that we have a 12-acre plot in Bandra. I may not go into the history of this because all the regular participants are aware of this. So in that, as I had shared, that there was a problem of exit and entry to the plot from the Western Expressway. So that issue, to our satisfaction, has been sorted out with MMRDA. So that is a very great achievement from our side. That was the greatest hindrance in going ahead with any kind of sale or any kind of development tender. So now that [Technical Difficulty] from Ministry of Railways, and hopefully, they will intimate us soon to go ahead with the tender because this was the most difficult bottleneck which we had.
Okay. So approximately by when it will be done, the sale of this land?
I can't give you a time line as of now, but we expect to hear something 3 months down the line.
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Mahesh Kabra from Purnartha Investment Advisors.
Good evening, sir. Just wanted to understand how is the execution going on right now in the current quarter?
Yes. In the current quarter, we will be exceeding what we did in the last quarter of last financial year, means Q4 of last year. We will be doing better than that. And last year, I think we had around INR 700 crores last quarter?
Yes, INR 1,300 crores to INR 1,800 crores.
Last quarter, we had an execution of INR 1,800 crores. So this quarter also, we will have the same thing or more than that. That obviously goes to show that we have done well in first 2 months of the current quarter.
We had rented out some places in Gurgaon or Noida. Are we receiving rent now there? Or what is the situation there?
No, we had an agreement in respect of renting out our mall in Noida with Select City. But because of the COVID, everybody has invoked force majeure clause. And as you are aware, I mean shopping complexes, mall or PVR, et cetera, or even office complexes, the demand has been on a dwindle. There are not enough demands. That is why those contracts have not been operated. So as on date, we do -- we are not receiving rents from our buildings which we have constructed.
So those places are unoccupied completely currently?
No, out of 3 buildings, 1 is occupied because we had hired a building in Palika Bazar, that is Ircon. So we have shifted our office to one of the buildings. And we have surrendered the leased building which we had taken from NDMC. There was -- there is a saving in outgo of rental to NDMC.
So the mall that we had constructed, that is empty currently, is it? Unoccupied?
Right. That's right. Mall is empty. Then Gurgaon Office Complex which we had constructed, for training purposes it is being used. But other commercial spaces, which we were to rent out, that unfortunately hasn't happened because since last 1 year nothing has moved.
Okay. We were also in discussion -- or through the government, we were in discussion for some international contracts. Any progress on those fronts?
No, no progress. I do not have any good news on that front also because it was a lull period for 8, 9 good months. Recently, only 15 days back, we have been to Bangladesh, myself and Director of Works. So we have made the ground, and hopefully, it should help us. That is all I can say at this point of time.
The next question is from the line of Dixit Doshi from Whitestone Financial Advisors.
Just one question. So as you mentioned that we did last year in Q4 around INR 1,800 crores and may do slightly better compared to that. I am assuming that we will do INR 4,500 crores to INR 5,000 crores top line, plus or minus in [indiscernible] But how do you see going forward FY '22 and FY '23? Because if I see INR 5,000 crores top line, but the order book is almost INR 32,000 crores, and I assume you give the order this number where construction has already started. So if this INR 32,000 crores of construction has already started, so how do you see FY '22 and FY '23?
Yes. That -- the first part that we are likely to be around INR 4,500 crores to INR 5,000 crores, I think I tend to agree with you. But we can better this also. I mean it depends how we work in, say, 1.5 months which we have at our hand. That is true. And coming back to the FY '22 forecast, we are seeing around INR 7,000 crores of execution. That is how we are internally planning. In fact, this year also, we had an internal target of INR 7,200 crores. But for this unfortunate pandemic period, we have not been able to really push it. But next year, we intend crossing INR 7,000 crores as the revenue from operations. And that's right, INR 32,000 crores is the doable work which we have in our hand. And going forward, FY '23, et cetera, around INR 10,000 crores. That is how we look at.
The next question is from the line of [ Raj Oza ].
First, my question was related to macro level. Just wanted to understand from you, considering the union budget which they have sanctioned around INR 100,000 crores of rupees in infra and railway. So how this can help us get -- to get the order from government side, sir?
Yes. As you are aware, the total plan size of railways is around INR 215,000 crores, out of which INR 110,000 crores is coming from Ministry of Finance to Railways. Now 110,000 crores constitute a lot of money for even the DFC corridors or NHSRC, means High Speed. And for conventional works, the allotment will be more or less in the same range as we had last year. That is roughly INR 70,000-odd crores. And out of INR 70,000-odd crores, they have not even called for a limited competition from PSUs in the current financial year pertaining to track portion. Of course, electrical portion, as I shared, I have got work of around INR 4,000 crores in the current year. But for track portion, they have not actually distributed the work to any of the PSUs as on date. So there is a cumulative distribution to be done. That is for the year 2021 and also '21, '22. So we expect around INR 5,000 crores, INR 7,000 crores of work coming our way in terms of track works from Ministry of Railways. That is our back of the envelope expectation.
Fair enough. Fair enough. My second question was related to -- can you guide us like what order would be coming from our international market going forward, sir?
Sorry, I have no rough estimation of this because there are many issues which we have to first put in place, like appointment of agents in various countries. And most of the developing countries where we operate, they are also down on in terms of fund available with them, in terms of resources available with them. So they are also down. But in Bangladesh, we expect to get around INR 1,000 crores of orders, either by way of additional work in addition to what we are doing at present. Similarly in Sri Lanka and Maldives also, we have been shortlisted by Exim Bank for a connected network of roads to be made on the island. And in Sri Lanka, we expect around 100 million, 200 million-odd work coming our way by way of line of credit. Not a very bright picture I can paint at this point of time because those governments are yet to come out of the shock which their economy has taken because of pandemic.
Correct. Correct. Correct. Sir, my last question is, could you please update us on your sale of road assets? What is the status like of that?
Sale of road assets, we haven't made any progress as on date. But what we have been able to do, we have been able to arrange takeout loans. For example, in Davanagere-Haveri, we had given a loan of around 560 -- how much?
[indiscernible] 520.
520 -- sorry, INR 326 crores.We had given a loan of INR 326 crores, which we have been able to tie up with a third-party lending -- lenders, and we have been able to convert this financial investment into our own cash. Similarly, we are on a very advanced stage for Shivpuri-Guna Tollway also for negotiating a takeout loan. For sale, we have not been able to go ahead. So for that, we have our target setting, but it will take time, at least 6 months down the line.
The next question is from the line of Parimal Mithani, an individual investor.
I just wanted to know, sir, your Bandra land, is it a part of the Indian station development for the Railway Development Authority? Or is it just on a standalone basis right now?
For Bandra land, we have paid a land lease premium of INR 3,200 crores to Ministry of Railways. So it is a land which is ours, because we have paid for it.
And sir, what is the -- the earlier participant asked about the road assets. When are you likely to conclude them, sir, basically, any time frame? Because I think it was close to INR 1,000 crores that you had said in the previous...
That's right. So as I stated in reply to the last question, we will take 6 months down the line to sell our equity to a reasonable level in the completed projects and also some of it in the ongoing projects.
And sir, you said in your opening remarks in terms of the MOU, you're going to rework with the Ministry of Railways. What is the annual target for the -- that you will actually rework, so if you can just highlight that for us?
In MOU, we have various financial targets as well as physical targets and also some miscellaneous targets like HR, finance. Then essentially, 50% of it pertains to financial parameters and 50% of the marking pertains to execution of the projects and different milestones which are project-specific. So those are set by Administrative Ministry and also approved by DPE, negotiated and then settled. So say, supposing we have 10 projects, so there -- those 10 projects will carry 5 marks each and some physical parameters for the year will be set. So if we achieve that, then we get 50 marks. In financial parameters, we'll have parameters like how much will be your turnover for the year? How much will be PAT to net worth? How much will be your bills recoverable? How much will be your outstanding claims not acknowledged as debt, whether you want to have any reduction in that? So things like this. So we have 100-mark parameter set for us at the beginning of the year. And after negotiation, we have to achieve them.
Okay. Sir, last two questions. One is the cash and cash equivalent as on date, as of 31st December. And in terms of the competition bid which happened in last 9 months between the 3 PSUs, what is the share of order that we get from along with 3, sir, within RVNL and RITES and you, sir, if you can highlight.
So far as cash and bank balances as on 31/12/2020 is concerned, we have INR 3,165 crores worth of cash and bank balances. And out of which client fund is INR 2,885 crores. And our own fund is INR 280 crores. So cash-wise, we are well placed. There are no worries. And also, as I said, financial investments, which we had around INR 326 crores, that we have converted into cash. So cash is not an issue for us.
And sir, in terms of the bidding that you did for the project currently this year, if you can highlight between you and RVNL how -- like, who have been able to get the more follow-ups and if you can just highlight that, if it's possible.
Yes, yes. See, so far as bidding for projects by the PSUs are concerned, railway had invited bids for railway electrification works and some road over bridge and road under bridges, which we call it ROBs and RUBs. In the electrification portion, the total amount of the bid was INR 4,000 crores, out of which we have got around 2,000 -- how much we got?
INR 2,400 crores.
INR 2,400 crores. And RVNL got INR 400 crores, INR 500 crores. RITES got INR 700-odd crores. So we were way ahead of them in getting the work on the bidding. So far as ROBs and RUBs are concerned, since these were open to all the PSUs, not only railway PSUs, so the rates quoted by PSUs like NPCC and then EPIL and WAPCOS, et cetera, they were very low and we did not participate in most of the RUBs and ROBs because those were all very small value works scattered all over India. So however, we have been given one work by Ministry of Railways in order to ensure that we continue our presence in RUB and ROB also. And that has come at around 5% above the cost. So that is something which we are not looking as a viable business option because we can't go at prices which are being quoted by a company like NPCC or EPIL or even WAPCOS and others. So we intend excelling in proper highways, railways in domestic sector. These are the sectors where we have a threshold to be there and we have the necessary wherewithal to be there.
The next question is from the line of Vaibhav from [ HHI Investment ].
So the INR 7,000 crores revenue that you have kind of gained for in FY '22, so that is the amount that will be settled in our target in the MOU as well or that MOU process not yet started?
Sorry, to interrupt, Mr. Vaibhav. Sir, your voice is breaking.
Is it better now?
Yes, yes, I can hear.
Yes. So the INR 7,000 crore revenue target that you have aimed for FY '22, will that be our MOU target as well? Or that is our internal projection?
No. See, after all, internal projection is what we propose as our target. And then they negotiate, maybe they will increase it or they will keep in the same range. So we intend keeping a target of in and around INR 7,000 crores for next year. But it is too early to predict what Administrative Ministry or DPE will actually tell us to do. Maybe they will tell us go for the shot at INR 8,000 crores. Or you have done only, say, INR 5,000 crores this year, how can you do INR 7,000 crores, you do only INR 6,500 crores. We really don't know, but it is more likely to be in the vicinity of INR 7,000 crores in the MOU as well.
Right. Historically as well, we have a really good order book relative to other revenue if you look at the historical years as well. And we have not been able to achieve -- the INR 7,000 crore revenue number will kind of give us a growth of around 35% or so on the current year revenue, 30% to 35%. So that is the growth that we have not seen in your company historically in spite of having a reasonably good order book related to revenue. So what makes you confident that you can do it -- or do it next year? Is there some big projects who are kind of meeting the milestone? Or what is making you confident that you can do INR 7,000 crores next year?
Yes. I will -- that's a very interesting question. We have 2 projects which are actually at the right stage. One is my USBRL, which is Udhampur-Srinagar-Baramulla Road -- Rail Project connecting Jammu to Baramulla. So that project is slated to be completed by June 2022 or at the most by August 2022. So there, we have around work of INR 3,000-odd crores which we need to complete. So that one work itself, where everything is mobilized and the work is in full swing. In fact, in the current year, we would have touched around INR 6,500 crores had there been no issues like this. So that is one work which we are eyeing on for arriving near to INR 7,000 crores. Second is Sivok-Rangpo project, which is again INR 8,500-odd crore project, in which the turnover has hardly been around INR 600 crores, INR 700 crores. All the agencies and all the necessary technical mobilizations are in place. There also, we intend doing around INR 1,500 crores, INR 2,000 crores in next financial year. And rest of the projects, in any case, something like Chattisgarh East Railway project or DFC project. These are all targeted to be completed in FY '22, '23, at the most by end of '22. So unless we do really well in all these 4, 5 projects, we will not be able to complete it. So given those targets -- physical targets, our INR 7,000 crore turnover is not wide of the mark, and this is what we intend achieving.
The next question is from the line of Rishikesh Oza from RoboCapital.
Hello?
Yes, I can hear you, Mr. Oza.
Yes sir, can you please provide a guidance for order book and EBITDA margins going ahead in FY '22 and FY '23?
Now this is a straight question. Hello? Yes, am I audible?
Yes, sir.
Yes, for order book, for FY '22, we see around INR 5,000 crores of work at the minimum flowing to us. For EBITDA margin, in terms of percentage, we will have around 13%.
[Foreign Language]
He's asking about FY '22.
13%
Around 13%, yes. I hope that helps.
Okay, sir. And second question is, sir, your debt levels, I had a question about it. What do you see going ahead? Because it has actually come down. So further, are we on the same level? Or you will increase this a little bit?
We will increase a little bit because recently, we have taken a INR 900 crore worth of highway project, Gurgaon-Rewari. There, we are intending to take debt from bank, around INR 300 crores. But overall debt, it will reduce because this Bandra plot debt repayment of around INR 700-odd crores will also happen. So overall, there will be a reduction of around INR 400 crores to INR 500 crores of debt ahead.
The next question is from the line of Shreyans Mehta from Equirus Securities.
Yes. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, first question pertains to the amount which is received from the Davanagere project, INR 330-odd crores. So how have we utilized the same?
See, we had to put equity in our Gurgaon-Rewari project. That was one utilization. Second one was working capital infusion for NCRTC electricity project. That was the second utilization. And then we have a Kim-Vadodara HAM project. There [Technical Difficulty] project expenses, we have put in INR 112 crores.
Sir, can you quantify how much equity did we put for Gurgaon-Rewari?
[Foreign Language]
[Foreign Language] It will be roughly around 20% of INR 750 crores, that comes to around INR 150 crores.
Okay. Okay. And sir, coming back to the operating margins, you said that we are having 13% EBITDA margin.
That's right.
Is that including other income or excluding other income?
This is including other income.
Including other income.
Yes, yes, yes.
Secondly, sir, you see the quarterly number, if I exclude the other income, we are still at the lower kind of EBITDA margin of roughly around 6 to 7-odd percent whereas, historically, we've done around 9-odd percent. So do you foresee this moving back towards 8.5% to 9% going forward?
Actually, by end of March, we'll be what we were last year.
Okay. Okay. And in FY '22, this will be maintained?
Yes, yes, yes, absolutely. Core EBITDA margin will be roughly 10%? No 2 opinions about that.
Okay. Okay. So I mean, is it because we don't have any price escalation clauses because the way raw material prices are increasing, can't there be any squeeze in margins?
No, see, there are many things involved in contract management which will otherwise go to make revenue from operations. Those contain our genuine claims withheld by the client, genuine work done but not paid as yet. So there are many things which we have to -- and they don't even recognize. So normally, we will not take it as part of our revenue from operations. So when those things materialize, our EBITDA -- core EBITDA will improve. So we are having the visibility of handsome money coming from NHAI for the work which we have done with them. And that money will add to our core EBITDA as well as EBITDA activity level.
Got it. Got it. Got it. Sir, a few questions additional, if I may. What are the proceeds we are expecting in terms of debt replacement at Shivpuri-Guna?
INR 762 crores.
INR 762 crores. And sir, because of this, overall, how much -- I mean what would be the interest cost guidance for FY '22?
Interest cost to Ircon?
Yes.
No, no, nothing. I mean it will be to the SPV.
No. In Ircon stand-alone also, we have around INR 4-odd crores or INR 6-odd crores of interest which we are paying. So I guess maybe it might be because of bank charges or other financial charges.
Yes, yes, those are very small amounts.
Okay. So nothing major as such?
Nothing will come in the stand-alone on way of interest outgo.So see, I'm taking back my INR 762 crores from the SPV, and they are taking loan from bank.
Correct. Correct. Correct. And sir, how much do we need to include in the way of HAM in FY '22?
We need to be really good at calculation then. I think I will -- I don't have a ready answer for this. How much we will be spending in HAM projects? This is what you asked?
Yes, yes. So I just want to understand that since we'll be receiving INR 700-odd crores back from the SPV, just wanted to understand what would be the usage of the same?
No. See, going ahead, we have to put money in our JV -- rail JVs with all coal subsidiaries and then also in HAM projects which we are having. One now, of course, Gurgaon-Rewari is coming, and then we are doing Vadodara-Kim. These are the 2 HAM projects which we have in hand. I think HAM, Vadodara will be how much? I think he's asking about expenditure, not about equity or something.
In SPV?
SPV -- sorry, I'll have to get back. If you can just leave your mail ID, I will give you this info.
Sure. I'll definitely get back to you. And sir, one last thing, if I may, what is the debt number as on date?
Debt number?
Yes.
[Foreign Language]
[Foreign Language]
INR 1,815 crores, Bandra.
That's not consolidated, right?
I mean, no stand-alone. consolidated -- not in consolidated. I'm talking on a stand-alone. Consolidated will be higher.
Sure. And INR 1,858 crores is the gross debt?
That's right.
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Vishal Periwal from IDBI Capital.
One question on the execution front. So you mentioned INR 7,000 crores kind of run rate for FY '22. A couple of projects you have mentioned. So by June '22, you plan to conclude the Srinagar deal. So can we expect this large portion of the INR 7,000 crores will be front ended, at least we can see an execution probably starting from the first quarter of next year?
That's very right. Actually, execution is on full swing. All -- in last 1 month, we have finalized tender, it was around INR 1,000 crore in Jammu and Kashmir itself. Similarly in Sivok-Rangpo, that rail connectivity project from Siliguri to Gangtok -- short of Gangtok, there we have finalized tender for around INR 4,000 crores. So we will be spending a lot of this money in '21, '22. And INR 7,000 crores will come -- I mean, to a large extent from these 2 projects.
Sure, sir. And coming to on your order inflow. So your press release mentioned and you also mentioned the INR 4,000 crore of orders have been received. Will it be possible to segregate on a competitive bidding or nomination still happening or probably is coming to us now in this INR 4,000 crore order?
These are all won on bidding.
Okay. You mentioned that ROB work is on 5% plus above cost. So is it -- I mean will you categorize as a nomination? Or how will you consider this?
No. We were asked to quote our rate who takes the minimum cost plus. So obviously, it was a bid.
Sorry, I mean can you just...
See, out of all the shortlisted public sector units, we were asked to quote a percentage above the actual cost, who takes the minimum percentage above the actual cost. That was the bidding parameter. So cost plus the margin. The margin was a bidding parameter. So margin could have been 1%, 2%, 5%, 10%, anything. So it became 5%.
Okay. And how exactly is your experience? Though, like, you are yet to execute this competitive bid project, but in terms of margin-wise, will it be similar to what you have got in nomination? Or how exactly you see that?
Actually, as you are aware, the nomination work which we used to get in past was cost-plus around 8.5% to 10%. And exactly the same thing we have got except for this one ROB. So around INR 2,600 crores railway electrification. The rate which we have got varies from 8.49% to 10%. Similarly, in NCRTC, the one which we have got on bidding, had a profit margin of around 8%, 8.5%.
Okay. And you mentioned your peer groups, RVNL, RITES, even they have got some orders. So if they are getting orders, so they have to match up with what -- at the same rate you have got it or it will be a different rate for them?
No. See, there were many packages in the railway electrification project. There were 13 packages, right? And in every package, we had quoted. So a package which has gone to, say, RVNL, they -- the criteria was they must be the lowest in that or they have to match the lowest. So that way, it has gone, and they were the lowest in those things. Otherwise, in fact, in all 13 packages, we became the lowest. But they did not want to give everything to one particular PSU because execution is also a parameter and a key, because railway electrification is something which they want to really fast track and do it very quickly. So all the 13 packages worth INR 4,000 crores would have come to us had they gone only on the lowest bidder. So they have given something to RVNL, RITES also and also, I think, KRCL. They were given the rates, which turned out to be the lowest for their package. And obviously, we were the lowest in all.
Okay. So eventually, I mean they have got it at the same rate?
Same rate, which we had quoted as the lowest.
The next question is from the line of Sajal Agarwal, retail investor.
Sir, my question is, if I'm not wrong, there was a Board meeting yesterday for bonus issue. Sir, what exactly happened because of which the decision got delayed? And by when we can expect that to happen?
See, regarding the bonus issue, this was slated to be taken in the last Board meeting, that is yesterday. But it could not be taken for a very technical reason, that being a PSU, we have to take approval from government. And government constitutes 2 organs: One, DIPAM; another, administrative ministry called Ministry of Railways. So even though we had received a go-ahead from DIPAM, but we could not get it from Ministry of Railways in time, although there are no issues involved in that. So purely for technical reason, we could not take it yesterday. But the next Board meeting, we are going to do in this month only, and there we'll certainly be taking the bonus.
[Operator Instructions] As there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to Shri M.K. Singh for the closing comments.
I deeply appreciate participation of all the interested stakeholders. And I thank you from core of my heart. You asked questions which are very relevant and which are also in our minds and they occupy top priority. And we -- I, on behalf of entire management, want to assure all our friends and all our investors that Ircon is a company which is stable.
Sorry to interrupt, sir, this is the operator. We have one participant in the question queue now. The next question is from the line of Venkatesh Subramanian from LogicTree.
I think I just wanted to check with you on a couple of things. One is with respect to the land at the mall that you have in Delhi and the Bandra land, how have you -- is there a possibility that you will do an outright sale of this mall because it doesn't fit in with the Ircon's business model. And number two, Bandra land, how have you valued it in the balance sheet, sir? How is it reflecting? And what do you intend to do with it? Is it going to be an outright sale or a JV? What sense of valuation can we carry home?
See, so far as the mall is concerned, this has been made and constructed showing it as a capital expenditure of Ircon. So this is truly a asset which is being reflected in our books. We are open to either leasing it out on a long-term basis or even outrightly selling it off provided we get a reasonable return on our investments. But for the time being, we are seeing that we'll have to go for leasing it out instead of selling it off because of the present real estate market scenario. We'll not be able to get much value. We purchased it way back at much higher circle rate of Noida Authority. So we can't sell it off because they themselves have reduced their circle rate as on date. So hiring remains the good option. But as I told, we have had an agency in place, but still, we have -- they have backed out for the pandemic and for further forward linkages which they had developed in terms of selling it off to PVR and food chains, et cetera. So those things have fallen flat, and that is how they have also backed out. But we are going ahead with the tendering. And in fact, today, we'll be publishing the tender, and we have 1 or 2 parties who are interested in taking this. So we intend finalizing in 1.5 to 2 months, leasing out of the mall. So far as Bandra plots -- Bandra plot is concerned, we -- on the liability side, we have a loan of INR 1,815 crores. And on asset side, we have recoverable from Ministry of Railway/RLDA for INR 1,815 crores. That is how we treat this accounting-wise.
Okay. Right. Would you consider an outright sale of that land, sir?
No, we will not because it is to be -- it has been mandated to be given on lease only, and the lease will extend to 90 years or 99 years. So that is as good as sale, but not truly a sale.
Okay. So second question, sir, which is in terms of order book, we currently have about INR 32,000 crores, and you have given a guidance for roughly INR 5,000 crores of flows. Earlier in some of the con calls, you have mentioned that in FY '21 or '22, we might get some blockbuster orders, which is big orders, possibly some bullet trains or whatever in excess of INR 10,000 crores, INR 12,000 crores. That's how we -- then the overall order book can grow up to INR 40,000 crores, INR 50,000 crores. Is that still a possibility?
Bullet train, no possibility. We have participated in one more tender, around, I think, INR 4,000 crores. In main tenders, L&T have quoted the rates which are much below even the estimate of National High Speed Rail Corporation. So we have not been able to go to that extent. And so we have been outbidded, simple. Regarding blockbuster order book now, I mean foreign one was the only hope which we had. And as I stated in my earlier part of the con call, foreign projects are at a premium, but there is nothing in the horizon immediately.
Okay. Sir, 2 follow-up questions and then I am done. One is, you have also stated a revenue guidance of roughly INR 10,000 crores for FY '23. Just from -- if we end up doing INR 7,000 crores, then it could be a 20% up from there. So is that also something that you think is achievable, number one? And when you do these JVs for various projects, instead of putting in equity, wherein you take out equity from a project and put an equity again, is it -- would it be a better option for you to consider [Technical Difficulty] Sorry, sir. Hello?
Sir, the line for the management is disconnected. Kindly stay online until I reconnect them. Ladies and gentlemen, we have the management line reconnected to the call. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Yes. Sir, my last question, actually, one was the question of the INR 10,000 crore target for FY '23, would you think it's achievable? And number two, when you invest in JVs, when you take out money from one project and put it into another JV as an equity, would it be also a possibility that instead of putting in equity, you could actually make sure a bank, it could be a debt which is probably guaranteed by Ircon or something like that? Would you consider that, sir? Because it then brings down a lot of -- our resources are much more conserved there, return on equity goes up.
Yes. Coming back to first part of the question, in fact, CAGR of revenue from operations is roughly 18% in last 5 years -- last 4, 5 years, right? So INR 7,000 crores is something which we should have achieved for FY '21. But for reasons best known to everybody, we have not been able to do it. So in fact, that will be going one year back. So in FY '22, we should have done much better than INR 7,000 crores, but we intend doing on a conservative basis in and around INR 7,000 crores. After that, seeing the order book of INR 32,000 crores and also inflow of around INR 5,000 crores, INR 6,000 crores of order book, INR 10,000 crores is something which is doable because the large-sized projects are already on execution fast track mode. So we hope to get INR 10,000 crores, it shouldn't be an issue. Because all electrification of INR 4,000 crores will have to be completed. All HAM projects which we have in hand need to be completed. By that time, all JV projects which are there would have been at the finishing line. So we expect INR 10,000 crores to be a realistic figure for FY '23.
And then the JVs, instead of putting in equities...?
Yes, yes, yes. So I will come to that. For JVs, actually, there is a stipulation from Ministry of Railways that we have to put in 26% of classical equity by way of participation on behalf of Ministry of Railways. So we do not have any leeway in diluting it in the form of quasi equity or something.
Thank you. As there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to Shri M.K. Singh for the closing comments.
Yes. So I was in the midst of the closing comment when Mr. Venkat came. Very nice, he put in really nice questions. But I can only say that you be with us, have faith in us, keep on reposing confidence. And we will certainly come to the expectations, as I have indicated in today's con call. In the current year also, we were hearing a lot worse, but we have been able to come out of the trouble. Going ahead, we have a bright future, and we continue engaging meaningfully with all our stakeholders, investors, ministries, et cetera so as to bring value for each one of them. Thank you so much.
Thank you all for being a part of conference call. If you need any further information or clarification, please mail at gaurav.g@conceptpr.com.Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes your conference for today. Thank you for using Chorus Conference Call Service. You may disconnect your lines now. Thank you, and have a pleasant day.