Intellect Design Arena Ltd

NSE:INTELLECT

Earnings Call Transcript 2023-Q4

[Unknown Analyst]

[Audio Gap]

Financial results for the fourth quarter of the fiscal year 2022, '23 and the full year ending 31st March 2023. The investor presentation and press release have been sent to all of you and is also available on our website as well as stock exchange website.

Our leadership team is present on this call to discuss the results. We have with us today Mr. Arun Jain, Chairman and Managing Director; Mr. Manish Maakan, CEO of iGTB; Mr. Rajesh Saxena, CEO of iGCB; Mr. Banesh Prabhu, CEO of Intellect AI and Mr. Venkat Saranu, CFO. Beside, some other very senior members of the Intellect management team are present in the call.

Mr. Arun Jain will brief you on the results, followed by the briefing of Mr. Banesh Prabhu, Mr. Rajesh Saxena and Mr. Manish Maakan. Thereafter, there will be a Q&A session, where your questions will be replied by the senior management team.

[Operator Instructions] On safe harbor, I would like to remind you that anything which we say refers to our outlook for the future is a forward-looking statement. This must be read in conjunction with the risk company faces.

With this, I request Arun to give the briefing. Arun?

[Arun Jain, executive]

Good evening to everybody who has joined this conference call. Today, we are celebrating the annual results of Intellect for '22-'23. This is a culmination of last 9 years of our effort when we demerged in Intellect Design Arena from Polaris software.

During this 9 years, we've built up this institution of high-quality product development, deep reach in market development, and cutting edge technology development, which got translated to put the company on the global map for Banktech wave 5.

We have mentioned in our release, 2 words, which may be new to the investor, one is called eMACH.ai and second is Banktech wave 5. I would like to explain the two data very...

[Technical Difficulty]

Can you hear me now or not yet?

[Unknown Analyst]

Yes, Arun.

[Arun Jain, executive]

When did you lose us?

[Unknown Analyst]

Arun, you were talking eMACH.ai and BANKTECH wave 5.

[Arun Jain, executive]

So let me start from a positioning of the company at the right place about 9 years of our efforts have brought in what we are today.

The Banktech wave 5 started sometime in 1965, which was a mainframe-based technologies banks start choosing for registers. Some time in 1985, the mini computer came in, and the second wave started on using the computerization in the banking, but in the back end for calculations and somewhat front-end applications, trans-application, started happening.

Banktech wave 3 happened sometime when the mini -- when the distributed computing started happening sometime in '90s, where many product companies emerge whether [ terminal ] or [ Flexcube ] or the players in the similar domain, Temenos emerging '90 to '95 era, this was the distributed computing company started happening.

Some time in '90, 2000, 2001 when Internet technology disrupted the industry and there the next generation of customer experience started to take some shape in Banktech Wave 5. Now in Banktech wave -- that was Banktech wave 4 and Banktech wave 5 is about when cloud disruption and AI disruption happens. So it means whenever the technology disruption happens, there's a significant wave that companies have to realign themselves to the new horizon.

And that investment has to be done at least 3 to 4 years in advance, and we would be able to pick up the right signal early enough that cloud and AI is going to disrupt the technology industry, which you are -- all of you are seeing in the last 6 months, more dominantly, versus when we picked up in 2017 and invested a team of cloud technology in New York, and then AI technology in India and New York invested the money over there.

With these 2 investments we made on Fabric platform; and second is a MACH composable platform, iTurmeric, which was a technology platform which we invested into it.

[Technical Difficulty]

So, eMACH.ai, that why eMACH.ai is creating a wave in the marketplace, we are bringing all the products which we have built over the period of time in retail banking, in corporate banking, in wealth arena and the micro services.

So there are 285 micro services, which can be assembled to design the products related to a particular market, let's say, the HSBC Bank has to design their offering in a specific country for a specific SME segment. They would like to offer certain feature and functionality, which they use to use services company to build those products.

Today, we are able to disrupt that pattern saying, you can do it using composable platform iTurmeric, where there'll be almost 0 code and it will be a composable platform. So we define A to F of eMACH.ai, which revolved around architecture, which revolves around micro services, it revolves around Composability, which is all around data, which revolves around embedded AI. And it is flexible and extensible for the bank.

And that's what giving us good momentum to the customers globally. So this is what our story, which has changed and is the fourth foundational principle for our distribution. Now this technology can enable our partners to build the technology or this technology can help the financial institutions to use by their own IT teams, for by using our eMACH.ai platform. So the problem which you are discussing as an investor that when are we signing partners, I think this is the right technology we were preparing for.

We are -- it is much easier for a partner to get signed up for eMACH.ai, and that's what -- during the call, Manish may update you about what progress we have made in the partnership side. So today's purpose of the call is to take you through this, results with last year same time in the month of May, we said that we will be reinvesting 5% of our cash margins to build up a next-generation technology. And we'll ensure the cash is maintained at the same place as what we had. We [ couldn't have ] delivered the same cash at last year in spite of investing for the eMACH.ai, the next-generation platform.

Second thing we look at this margin should be -- it was 24.5% last year. We were looking 5%. So our annual margin this time is 20%, which is also what are in line with what we discuss with you. Third thing is you always looked at it that Intellect can only be measured by last 12-months revenue, not quarterly revenue. Our business model doesn't permit for us to get evaluated on quarter-on-quarter margin. I want to insist again that please stop looking at comparing Intellect with the service companies. They have a completely different models.

There is no comparison from service industry versus a product company or technology companies. Intellect is a technology company, so please look at it last 12 months. Last 12 months, we consistently in last 4 quarters, we maintained our growth rate more than 20%. Even in quarter 1, quarter 2, quarter 3, quarter 4, the last 12 months growth rate was 20%.

So that is what we designed the business for. And this business is accelerating. Our CAGR of last 5 years is 16%. Our CAGR of last 3 years is 18%, and CAGR of last 2 years is over 20%. So it's accelerating CAGR in last -- it's 5 years of our journey. At this point of time, I checked up, the investor has...

[Technical Difficulty]

Can you hear me now? Praveen?

[Unknown Analyst]

Yes, it's fine now.

[Arun Jain, executive]

Okay. So the first is having to grow. Portfolio model is one critical model, where we've chosen 4 LOBs to grow simultaneously. Now each LOB is having the -- their own portfolio for the growth of the business. Second is we have presence in 57 different countries, so our business is not dependent on a particular geography. And we are the most diversified company which are operating in the largest client in Asia, largest client in the Middle East, largest client in Europe, largest client in Europe and Americas.

Looking at it, what new challenges are, our challenges are distribution now like, Intellect 3.0 is about distribution, which will give us a headroom to grow. The second question is headroom for margin growth. Our licensing margin revenue comes from 3 sources: Direct[ licenses ], platform revenue and AMC. All 3 are growing healthily in the business.

Assurance of growth. Assurance of growth come from our client quality, our technology differentiation and are we solving the right problem. When Manish, Rajesh -- and Manish will take you through, they will try to assure you that there is a huge growth potential they have seen.

Related to risk, a fourth question. Yes, geopolitical risk we have seen over the last 7 years, starting from Brexit to Trump, then to Ukraine War to now U.S. and America crash of the banks, those are part and parcel of our business portfolio. It does impact 2 to 3 quarters when the industry start assimilating the impact of such kind of a risk.

Second is [ deal cycle ] closured cycle time, that is not predictable in a large deal cycle like what business we are in, so which cannot be quarter-on-quarter. And third risk, which is coming in now, where the banks are becoming more committed for the payments to be milestone driven. So these are the 3 risks which is there, which we identify. We will discuss it if you have some more questions regarding it.

At this point of time, I want to hand over to Banesh to share with us what is exciting story of AI with the combination of wealth and insurance playing out in the market.

Over to Banesh. After that, Rajesh will tell you the story of how the core banking systems, which is why the banks are looking for transformation of core banking systems now, why the Banktech wave 5 is so critical for core bank systems. Which was, to some extent, slowing down and how the Thought Machine and Temenos is competing.

Manish story, more of [indiscernible] , a GTB story. But GTB story has migrated to significantly in consumerization of corporate banking. It's an amazing story the way differentiation is coming in the global market space. So Manish will share you that story. And then I summarize that. Over to you, Banesh.

[Vishwanath Prabhu, executive]

Yes. Can I -- Praveen, can I request you to share the slide.

[Manish Maakan, executive]

Banesh you can do it yourself, maybe.

[Vishwanath Prabhu, executive]

Someone is not letting me. That's why I'm -- if you want to start Manish, then I can cover the one later on.

[Manish Maakan, executive]

Let Rajesh go.

[Rajesh Saxena, executive]

Okay. So let me -- I hope you can hear me. Yes. Let me take it from here. And let me just start by sharing my screen. So I hope you can see my screen.

So let me start. So first of all, good morning, good afternoon and good evening, and thank you for joining this conference call, and it's good to be talking to you again. So let me start and talk about today's presentation and really in 4 sections.

So in Section 1, I'll talk about the market opportunity, some key trends and talk about our competitors. While Arun has already talked about the financials of year 2023, FY 2023, I'll try to put a little bit of color by giving you a qualitative feel of year 2023.

The third section we'll talk a little bit about growth strategy, which is very similar to what I have said in the past, but I'll just recap that again. And we'll talk about a little bit more about marketing. I think this year, we are focusing more on marketing from distribution and marketing. So I'll talk a little bit about that.

So I think when we look at the market size, from a TAM perspective, FY '23 the retail banking space is about $23 billion, which is growing at a CAGR of about 8%. So that takes from $23 billion to $29 billion. But what's interesting about this market is while it's growing at an 8% CAGR, the shift in the SaaS, SaaS piece of this market, is really growing by 34%, while the in-premise business is only growing by 8%. So the SaaS business, which is about 14% of the total market spend right now, in FY '29 is estimated to go to 30%. And that's where our business model at eMACH.ai is the space that we are playing in.

Also from our nontraditional players, these are players like specialist banks, digital banks and other Fintech players, we are seeing that, that component of the business is also growing. So that's a little bit about the market. From an Intellect perspective, if you look at the Intellect service addressable market, it's about $11 billion growing at about 8% to 10% CAGR. And therefore, from a retail banking space, we believe there is a huge headroom for us to grow our business in the coming years.

Talk a little bit about some of the trends that we are seeing in the market. So I think the first trend that we are seeing really is about digital transformation, especially relating to the bank's customers and specifically on customer onboarding. We are also seeing that customers are expecting banks to participate in embedded finance user journeys as the customer goes through that journey.

For example, just to make this a little bit clear, let's say, a bank's customer is on Amazon.in, buying a product, buying a, let's say, a white good product. Suddenly, he doesn't want to pay in full. He wants to take a loan. He or she expects the bank to be a part of that journey and be able to offer that loan during that journey. So that's the embedded finance, and we are seeing that trend growing. So that's the first trend.

The second trend, I think I already talked about it. It's an accelerated shift to SaaS and cloud. We are seeing that trend going in all markets across the world.

The third trend is really about how banks can use data insights, and embedded AIs in the customer journeys to create hyper-personalized customer experience, which is lifestyle-oriented and contextual.

The fourth trend is really about how banks can work with partners and Fintechs to create an ecosystem. And through this ecosystem, everyone plays. I think a couple of years back, there was always this debate about banks and Fintechs. I think banks have now understood how to play in this game. And also, we are seeing the trend of how banks can become marketplaces.

In certain advanced markets, we are seeing ESG as a very key driver, especially on the environmental space. And in the central banking space that we play, we are seeing digital currencies. We are seeing many central banks either doing POCs or launching digital currencies. So these are the 6 key trends that when we talk to the bank CEOs, retail bank heads, CIOs, chief digital officers. These are the 6 key trends that the banks talk about.

And it is important because our business model is built around these 6 key trends. I think from a technology perspective, I think the kind of investments that we have done in the last couple of years, whether it's relating to cloud SaaS, API, micro services, DevSecOps, insights, data, AI and distributed DB. And I think 2025 to 2030, we expect these technologies to further evolve.

So from an Intellect perspective, the good part is that we have already started, we already started our journey a couple of years back, and we have made significant progress in some of these trends.

So talk a little bit about year 2023. I think we were well covered from an analyst perspective. For the sixth consecutive year, IBS rated us as the #1 in retail banking. They also rated us as a global leader in product breadth as well as retail lending. From a Forrester perspective, we were rated as a leader in the Forrester Wave, a digital banking processing platform for retail banking. We are in Gartner 7 time leader in the Gartner's Magic Quadrant. And Chartis also rated our digital lending solution as best of breed. So I think we've got a lot of quality analyst coverage during the year.

I think we believe that we also did -- in the month of February, I think Arun talked about it, we had our first Banktech Wave 5 event in Mumbai. And during that time, we were very happy to launch iKredit360, a specialist credit platform built for India -- in India, and I'll show a couple of pictures around that and talk a little bit about the value proposition that we have built for iKredit360 in India.

We believe that this platform, which is a specialist credit platform, can really help democratize credit in this country. So let me talk. [Technical Difficulty]

I think the key proposition of iKredit360 that we have a nutshell, it's a complete 360 asset platform. What that means is that any credit product, whether you want to launch an SME financing, you want to launch credit cards, you want to launch agricultural loan, gold loan, every credit product can be configured on this platform. It is built on an eMACH.ai architecture, which means that it's microservices, API, cloud, headless and event-driven architecture.

The model that we have is really on pay as you grow. So you pay a small upfront fee, and you pay as you grow based on the number of transactions. And what's very critical is that it is in built, India-ready, that -- what it gives is that all the key partners, Fintech, government agencies are already integrated with this platform, which significantly reduces time to market for banks as well as makes this platform regulatory ready.

During that event, we launched 2 products, SME lending, SME finance and lending platform in India. And the second platform that we launched was about digital cards. So on SME financing, the platform actually takes care of 16 types of SME financing that you can do, and it's a model which is completely India ready. And on the cards piece, it's a complete front-to-back model, which also has the potential to launch a green card.

Following India's event, the second event that we did was in U.K., where we really launched our U.K. open finance platform. Let me show you a little bit about what we did in London.

Sorry. Okay, so maybe let me -- so this was followed by our second event in London. And in that event, we actually -- which was done in collaboration with the Celent and AWS bankings for London. We actually launched the open finance platform, which is U.K. and Europe ready, based on our eMACH.ai architecture, it was very well received. We had about more than 60 banks, customers and prospects looking at our platform, and we are continuing to progress on this from a Europe perspective.

I wanted to now talk a little bit about 2 used cases. So I think this is the first use case is really about our Central Bank use case, where we launched the commercial portal for these banks. And just talk a little bit about what this portal does for this commercial bank. So this is serving about 240 commercial banks, which has about more than 15,000 users. And this is the first time we've built a platform, which is multilingual.

We have actually started with English and Hindi, but it has the capability of going into regional services. The platform offers 120-plus banking services and 175 PDO services. And for the first time, any central bank has actually gone on an enterprise cloud, so this platform is on VMware, Tanzu Cloud, it is the first time where we have gone through a very severe security clearances, and we had to go through a professor at IIT Kanpur, because security is a very big concern from being a commercial portal.

And the first time we have -- through our iTurmeric platform, we have ensured a 100% coexistence. What it means is that we have the old platform, e-Kuber 1 and the new platform e-Kuber 2, and we have the ability for a user for a certain bank to be on e- Kuber 1 and certain banks on e-Kuber 2. And within a bank also, some users can be on e-Kuber 1 and some users can be on e-Kuber 2. So this is a great tool for migration and reduces any risk from a migration perspective.

The second use case that I wanted to talk about is the SME marketplace that we have launched. This is for one of the largest private banks in India. And this is a bank which over the last 1 year, has gained, has improved its market share from 19% to 24%. The platform is really about a cloud-native solution, which is implemented on a private Google Cloud, where the customer, the SME can self-onboard.

So prior to pandemic, the process in this bank used to be that an SME would go to an RM, sit across the RM and give all the data. And that process of approving that could take anywhere between 7 to 10 days. Now what the bank has done is that SME can onboard himself or herself by using a micro site, with very little data entry, with very few fields of data entry. And through multiple API calls that we make with many important Fintechs and partners, we are able to get that information and make almost real-time decision. So this we do through our 129 APIs, 11 PBC. We've built 67 interfaces for just for approving this RMs.

Today, the bank is processing about 70,000 applications that disburses more than INR 7,000 crores a month on this platform. This is, we believe, this is a hot space in India, and this platform can really democratize the SME financing from a technology perspective in India.

Moving on, I think I'll talk a little bit about our strategy. Our strategy continues to be built around our product and platform, focus -- continued focus on Europe, a principal solution provider strategy and destiny deals that focus on talent.

I think this is an important slide. I'll spend a couple of minutes on this slide. I think when we look at our business, we are looking at our business as 4 products, 3 platforms and 1 technology. The 4 products that we talk about is IDC. And when we talk about IDC, this is core banking, lending, credit cards, AML, treasury, et cetera. It's the most -- from a breadth perspective, it is the widest product suite that is available in the market and the deepest from the types of user stories that we have.

The second product, which is -- which we sell, is digital lending. The third product is really about our central banking proposition, our market-leading central banking product proposition, which we call as Quantum. And the fourth is on Capital Q, which is our treasury and ALM product.

As we had originally had products, we are now moving in that journey from -- to a platform and the 3 platforms that we have is eMACH.ai. This is our open finance platform, iKredit360, it's our credit curated -- credit platform, the digital experience platform, this is the front-end layer. And iTurmeric, which is our technology. I want to spend a couple of minutes talking about the key value propositions of some of these -- some of the products and the platform.

So from a product perspective, I think if you look at IDC, the key USP on IDC, it's a composable and extensible business component. It is built on our eMACH.ai architecture. And as I said, from a breadth and depth of the solution, it is the widest and includes end-to-end loan life cycle credit cards and treasury. And from a product perspective, in our strategic markets, we have country-ready model banks, platforms for targeted countries. What it helps us is that it enables us a shorter implementation time.

From a lending perspective, what we are seeing in the market space is a great need for a one origination platform, and one origination platform is really a single platform, which can take origination for retail, commercial as well as corporate. We -- the digital lending suite that we have has a comprehensive credit life cycle management and has multiple channel [indiscernible] such as Microsoft customer office, RM office, et cetera.

From a Quantum perspective, which is a central banking solution, we look at our key USPs, our digital transformation, how we can enable central banks to implement policies faster, to keep pace with ever-changing interconnected global landscape. It seamlessly connects 4 pillars of the nation, the government, the Central Bank, FIs and public. It helps the central banks to provide real-time visibility of operations, and it really -- while this is a full product, it actually has 12 different pillars in this platform.

From a capital Q perspective, this is a product which is seamlessly -- which seamlessly integrates the front office, middle office and back office with in-build [ ALM and RFR ], and it has a real -- it can give the banks a real-time visibility of cash flow and risk and portfolio risk analytics.

From a platform perspective, I think eMACH.ai, this is -- as I said, this is our open finance enabled platform. It is a ready integrated ecosystem. It is regulatory compliant in the markets that we are working. It is available on PaaS and it's on eMACH.ai architecture.

From an iKredit360 perspective, this is a complete 360 assets platform where banks can curate innovative credit experiences over the cloud. It has the eMACH.ai building blocks and it has multi-tenant credit as a service platform, and this comes pre-integrated with best-in-class Fintech partners to offer differentiated solutions.

From a digital experience platform, it's about a composable, contextual and collaborate. From a composable perspective, the banks can design their own UIs. It has domain services across acquisition, banking services, engagement services, beyond banking services and foundation services. Contextualized, we are using embedded AI and ML for building propensity models and collaborate. It works in an ecosystem with integration with many Fintechs and partners.

So that's really about our product platform and technology story. Let me just -- I think I just wanted to talk a little bit about Europe, I think we have reinvigorated our team in Europe with a senior person's induction. We have built -- continuing to build our presales and delivery capability. We have 3 referenceable clients, which have gone live, Cater Allan, [ auto and resources ] are in the process of going live.

We now have fully hosted solutions in AWS Germany and U.K. We have built a good pipeline in U.K., Europe and Canada. And we are, as I said earlier, we are now hosting multiple events in U.K. and Europe.

So I think that was really about our this thing, I'll take a little bit about principal solution provider. So what we are looking at is really looking at 5 accounts in this year to see how we can build a principal solution strategy around lending with these banks. And we continue to remain focused on the destiny deals. Destiny deals are very important for us, and we'll continue to remain focused on that.

I think on the last piece, which is really about talent, I think we are in the talent business. And therefore, we are focusing on -- we continue to remain focused on talent. And on a -- from a talent perspective, we are really looking at talent development, cost and efficiency and people engagement and learning. So these are the 3 pillars that we are working on from a talent perspective.

So that's really what I had. I think from a marketing perspective, I can just quickly talk about saying we are very happy for the first time we have decided to participate in Money20/20. We are participating in the Money20/20, which will be held in June in Amsterdam. And where we will be showcasing our signatures how banks can build their own solution, a signature solution, on our open finance platform.

We're looking at that. We are looking at our digital marketing [ ports ], the way where iGTB does iGTB Oxford, and we are looking at increasing our marketing participation in our marketing events in our key markets and along our key products. So that's really what I had. And I think with that, let me hand it over to Banesh.

[Unknown Analyst]

So Rajesh, before handing over -- what is a competitive landscape, Rajesh.

[Rajesh Saxena, executive]

So I think -- very interesting question. And I think from a competitive landscape, what we are seeing is that if you really look at markets in Europe and you look at Tier 1 banks or even if you look at large banks in the regional space, we have -- we are really facing 3 -- 2 competitors and us. So the competitors that we face is really Temenos, Thought Machine and Intellect.

So in many deals, we are in last 3 with these banks, and these are very large deals, and these could be Tier 1 bank deals. This could be regional tier bank deals, et cetera. So -- and I think we are uniquely positioned when we compare ourselves between Temenos, which we think is a little bit of an old legacy platform. It has a very monolithic architecture. And Thought Machine, which is really built on the latest technology, but doesn't have the depth and the breadth, which is required from a financial services perspective. So I think with the eMACH.ai architecture, as well as the depth and breadth that we already had in our solution, we are uniquely positioned to be able to look at this market space.

And I think Arun talked about this a couple of years back, we were -- the market was looking at following the core or building around the core and not touching the core. What we are now seeing from a market trend perspective is that most of the banks are looking at core transformation because they are not able to get the benefits by using only surround system.

And I think with the new architecture that we have, the cloud technologies and our -- the eMACH.ai architecture, the -- this has become lower. And therefore, we are seeing a good market opportunity in large core banking transformation. That's the trend we are seeing, and we are, as I said, see Temenos and Thought Machine, but we believe that we are well positioned because of our latest architecture as well as the depth or breadth -- and depth and the breadth that we have from a financial perspective.

[Unknown Analyst]

Thank you. Over to Banesh.

[Vishwanath Prabhu, executive]

Yes. I think some issue with my screen being able to share on Zoom. So they're going to present it for me, yes.

Good evening, this is Banesh. I'm going to sort of talk to you about Intellect AI business and some of our learnings to the Intellect AI business has had in '23, '24. And how Intellect AI has positioned itself very well for the evolution that we are seeing in technology. I mean, we are moving very rapidly at a fast maturing pace from a digital age to information age evolution and how Intellect AI actually is positioned.

I think the approach that we've had from the beginning using data and AI as the first approach, along with our eMACH architecture for creating AI and data models. I'm going to actually have a few slides, but I'm going to actually talk to you for each of the teams.

To start with, I think our business trajectory during the year '22 '23 was very positive. We experienced growth and expansion across our customers and also in many of our geographies for our wealth business.

Our continuous innovation in products and platforms, using embedded AI, has now started providing us with some unique edge to quickly fulfill our varied customer demands, and there is a lot of demand coming out on the embedded AI solutions for specific areas in their business. So I'm going to touch on 3 businesses.

One is the insurance business, which is primarily focused on the U.S., but it's slowly expanding into the U.K. and Europe. Our wealth business, which is in several geographies right now and is expanding quite quickly. And I'm also going to talk to you about the very exciting area that we are seeing for our ESG business that we have started with a few clients, and also the potential of what we have launched as Magic Invoice in India, eventually occupying the accounts payable opportunity, which is also very large.

All of them use our same embedded AI platforms that I will touch on eventually as the technology and how we've invested in this technology through various waves using data and AI first as an approach.

So next slide. So I'm going to have a couple of slides on the U.S. insurance business, which I'm going to start with first. Firstly, North America, as we all know, has been pretty challenged economically for financial institutions. However, our insurance business actually is progressing. Most of the insurance businesses are progressing very well in the economy.

And with the present risk scenario, we actually see great opportunity for the insurance business, specifically the insurance business related to next-generation underwriting efficiency. They do want to underwrite risk more efficiently in this very high-risk environment.

So if you see this slide, we are one of the few providers who focus on a combination of data using risk analyst as a product. For ingestion, we use our magic submission. I'm going to touch on that a little bit later. And a very successful completely MACH-architected intelligent underwriting platform Xponent.

We also have partners and partners. So we are not -- we don't build policy admin systems, but we have partners in policy admin. So wherever a client wants to specifically focus on a particular type of business, we would give them our partner systems for policy admin.

So if we can move to the next slide. Magic submission and Xponent end-to-end underwriting with enriched data coming from our risk analyst product is actually creating a comprehensive underwriting ecosystem. -- that our clients are actually now very interested in implementing slowly for different businesses.

So we've built data models through AI to enable various business lines such as property, general liability, workers' comp, business auto. And right now, we are working with many clients on putting together specialty lines and excess and surplus lines, leveraging Intellect's iTurmeric no-code low-code platform.

So our deep customer-centric focus actually provides us both cross-product and cross-business ecosystem. So what this really means is that we are in a position to get into a client, maybe with Magic submission in the earlier slide, you saw the ingestion capability and then extend it to specific lines of business. There are many lines of business, some insurance companies do a few lines of business, some others do many lines of business.

And we actually enter into a specific area, either a business, either a specific function of just Magic submission ingestion, then we use data as a separate product and sometimes we add to it the ability to even take it end-to-end to underwriting. I think that combination has worked extremely well, and has given us a strong focus on landing and expanding with our clients.

Our plan this year would be to exceed 1 million submissions through Magic submission, and the pricing is based for submission, and this is done every year. We are about 80% faster in processing time and 20% higher data quality. If you could just move to the next slide. We're 80% faster in processing time and 20% higher data quality, but our enhanced capabilities of monthly channel ingestion, we can take data from multichannels. We can take different kinds of data. We can enrich the data. And then what we do is we embed AI to provide things like submission prioritization.

So I will touch on this first point on decision-making time. Many of our systems are actually helping the client prioritize submissions much faster and choose through our AI embedded platform, faster submissions for underwriting compared to the old BPO model, which had a lot of processing delays and human limitations. So our target is actually to go after the BPO industry for Magic submission.

And actually, we, therefore, if you saw the competition slide we had [ Konverge ] and Groundspeed, which are the 2 competitors, this combination of putting together intelligence of AI embedded is something that many of them do not have, which is why we're getting a lot of traction.

The market TAM is expected to be about 100 million submissions every year. And our position in this vital area in underwriting shows enormous growth to be able to process, with all of these operational capabilities for our customers going ahead.

We continue to obtain an edge over competition, such as Guidewire and Duck Creek. Now Guidewire and Duck Creek are the big policy admin providers who also do underwriting. But I think the capability of our underwriting ecosystem makes us a lot stronger than Duck Creek and Guidewire. And actually doesn't -- most people are slowly moving away from those platforms, or many of them have been doing underwriting outside of those platforms, and we actually are the best solution to be able to use our MACH-e architecture, along with the embedded intelligence to be able to help them manage the end-to-end process.

And with partners who -- we have partners, for example, to do rating of risk, we have partners to do policy admin capabilities. I think that ecosystem provider is attracting a lot of attention from some of our clients. To this effect, our GTM focus now includes 3 aspects. One, it's expanding the TAM to all those businesses I mentioned, property, casualty and so on. That is number one.

Second, a custom offering, leveraging Intellect's proprietary low-code platform iTurmeric in specialty insurance. This is where we write special insurance for a particular need. And we have not normally done that in the past, and this is something now we built the capability along with our underwriting platform and iTurmeric fulfilling that requirement. So that's expanding our TAM in a new area.

And thirdly, we moved away from carriers to support MGAs, wholesalers and reinsurers. And we believe that the TAM approximately of [ $5 billion ] year per year on just the technology side for U.S. and U.K. is where we believe is the opportunity. I think our specific target within that is somewhere in the [ $3 billion ] range.

Now we have 13 customers onboarded, a very healthy pipeline and quite a few in contracting at this stage. With our newly created ops team, we deal with that exception processing that we have for some amount of our AI capability brings exceptions.

We've created an end-to-end capability to deal with that operations capability. And what that operations capability learning does is that it helps us further in our deep learning and machine learning algorithms, further improve performance.

So those are a few of the things I wanted to touch on, on the wealth business. I'm going to now talk -- to the insurance business. Now I'm going to talk to you about the wealth business. If you could go to the next slide, please. Okay. So wealth, interesting space. I think I'll start with saying that global market trends are showing that we've almost tripled the assets under management. And many of you are investors and you know the growth in assets under management in the past decade has been enormous.

There's a continuous increase in liquid assets and a number of high net worths all over the world in many, many places. Wealth management firms and banks are struggling to provide new age, AI-driven technology experiences and renewed products to adapt to these new business models. So you'll see over here, we are focusing on a variety of segments, right down from the ultra high net worth and private bank on one hand and to the mass Wealth, on the other hand.

And there is a need to actually enhance the capability to provide scale for the relationship managers and the investment managers to be able to service more customers and to know more about the customers and more about their risk appetite to be able to provide them the right products. And there's an enormous amount of wealth transfer taking place to new people. So the ability to bring in new customers and at the same time, retain existing customers is very critical.

If you can go to the next slide. I think one thing I wanted to touch on here is that we've started sort of pioneering a differentiated experience for wealth managers and banks, and a superior service for both clients using a platform, which we call WealthForce.ai. We believe technology role is to complement the RM and not compete with it. It is a very emotive business. And we digitize with embedded intelligence, all those business tasks in the daily life of the financial advisers so that they can provide the personal touch in the digital age, and help them have embedded AI-powered analysis to supplement their skills.

So I'm going to touch a little bit on WealthForce.ai, if you can go to the next slide. So WealthForce.ai we are now in the process of implementing in quite a few markets, we believe that -- it has got 3 key models. Firstly, it's got an eMACH.ai, which we've already touched on architecture. We use our fabric data platform, and this new offering is the most comprehensive no-touch, low-touch financial adviser or RM solution.

And it's built on these 3 pillars: hyper-automation to absolutely reduce the operations friction that a customer -- that a relationship manager and a customer face in their transactions; second is hyper personalization, we believe that there is an enormous need to be able to match the right risk products to the right customers at the right time, and normally the relationship manager doesn't just have all that capability, and how do we supplement his skills with the capability to do that and therefore, result in a modern customer experience.

Wherever we've implemented this -- it's actually helped the wealth business grow their relationship manager performance significantly. And we hope that we could scale this up in several other geographies going forward. So what are some examples of that? If you go to the next slide, please. Contextual recommendations. The differentiator with this product is its hyper-personalized embedded AI for contextual portfolio recommendations. It actually helps clients increase their wallet shares. It helps the business, not just with the wallet share increase, but it also helps individual investment value systems to be tailored to suit the customer requirements.

So very often, the customer needs a tailored solution to suit what he wants. And the ability to understand the customer and to tailor the right solution to them is really the focus of providing -- these are some examples of how the AI is embedded in this particular area.

Next slide talks about nudges. How do we create smart nudges? These are personal triggers customized, whether a person wants to be socially responsible investment or he wants the next-gen analytics for his portfolio and for their business performance. This is a deeper analysis of the portfolio that we do, and therefore, we provide the right nudges to the customer at the right time.

The next slide. And then we provide this end-to-end portfolio performance evaluation that we can help the RM have available on his desktop at any point when he's dealing with the customer, and we have collaboration tools between the financial adviser and the customer so that we can actually retain and deepen our customer relationships to provide them the engagement and collaboration at the right time.

And I think the whole focus is about making the RM successful. We have about 20 customers between wealth and capital markets. And active pipeline discussions in various geographies right now in progress, and we already work with 3 of the top 5 banks for mutual fund, wealth distribution in India. And almost all of the local custodians in India use our custody platforms.

In addition, we sort of manage 20% of India's mutual fund volumes on our existing platform that we have implemented with the mutual fund associations. So I think -- our combination of MACH and our embedded AI for wealth is coming together very strongly focused on the financial adviser and the relationship manager.

If you go to the next slide, I wanted to touch very honestly on the fact that WealthForce.ai can be implemented independently or together with our core wealth platform called Wealth Qube. This wealth Qube really covers the full suite of 6 offices and 23 desks covering 150 tools to help complete wealth management for a company. Now some organizations only want to implement their financial adviser. Well, others would like to actually do the end-to-end wealth implementation. Some of them want to start with wealth and then move into a progressive transformation of their old platforms, because they don't want to do everything together.

So I think our capability to be able to focus on that for wealth is vitally important. And I think -- we hope that we will be able to launch very soon the WealthForce.ai in most of the key wealth hubs around the world that we are actually analyzing at this point, and finding out who we will compete with in these markets. We believe WealthForce in the present 3 pillars I talked about, hyper-automation, hyper personalization and a superior customer experience is not actually in its exact shape. Having a lot of very clear competition, there are different Fintechs doing different pieces of this. But the complete architecture along with MACH can be very well positioned for ourselves going forward.

So that's what I had on wealth. I'm going to touch on ESG, if you just go to the next page. So as you know, lot of folks when we talk about ESG think immediately about environment and climate. But this slide will sort of show you environment, social and governance and the various subcomponents. The platform is already live with one of the world's largest sovereign wealth funds, and we are actually in the process of implementing and upgrading it to cover all these various blocks and a lot of other data around it.

But presently, it runs on AWS cloud, and it already has a coverage of 6,500 companies globally. A few hundred India-listed companies are already present, and we want to expand that to cover the whole index in India very soon. We know that there are regulatory mandates, both from SEBI and of course, with all the other global countries, whether it's U.K. or regions such as the Europe and the U.S.

So iESG uses the power of machine learning to deliver contextually relevant information around each of these blocks of environment, social and governance. It is unlocking intelligence that is required for enabling much better risk analysis than just looking at financial risk. I think people, organizations want to look at environment, social and governance. In some markets, governance becomes very critical as we've seen. The combination of looking at risk in a holistic way to look at all elements beyond financial risk is what this suite really offers for us. And this is what we are in the position today to provide.

Just go to the next slide. So iESG is built on the foundations of explainable AI for ultimate transparency and auditability. Now if you see this slide, and you see there are 4 rating agencies, which are the different blocks for each of this. So if you look at whether Apple, and you'll see 4 rating agencies rating, ESG overall or even elements of E, S and G at different levels, the same rating agencies. And all these are very large global rating agencies we are talking about, okay?

Now this has been a concern that you can't just accept the best score, but you should be able to have explainability of where the data came from. So our explainable AI takes you down to drill from where the data sources come from. So this whole contextually relevant environment, social and governance-related data of clients to unlock intelligence is done in such a way that we give you a much better view to risk analysis than you would have before.

So this is an explainable AI. Lots of ESG ratings are today providing scores, but all of them lack the granularity required to make this into an effective business-grade decision. Now whether you use ESG for risk or you use ESG for impact, it actually helps asset managers and funds to make competitively different investment decisions and allows banks to incorporate sustainability risk and impact into their pricing and lending offers. And it greatly simplifies the financial service-related reporting activities that are required by most regulators around the world, and those regulations are evolving as we know.

If you just go to the next page. So iESG vision that we have, this is in Flex ESG Edge product, is to create a world driven by transparent and sustainable ethical financing within the context of an ever-shifting regulatory and customer preference landscape. We aim at cracking the problem of nonexposed data lineage, limited and contradictory industry scores and manually intensive investigative processes.

So the differentiation in our product comes with customizable ESG data. So we actually help you take that data and score it. Now when I say you, I would mean asset managers, banks that want to deal with different companies. We would actually give them the ability to create a scoring framework that is tailored according to them on all the data risks that we provide them along with where the data comes.

And this actually creates an explainable AI situation to help clients derive accurate insights. And this is done in near real time.

So iESG is a very powerful enough to run company sustainability reports, on custom metrics against thousands of companies at one time, both for the portfolio as well as at the industry level. It is clearly eMACH, -- it's an eMACH architecture is hosted on an AWS cloud. It uses a fabric data platform that Arun mentioned. It's got 40-plus ESG topic categories with real-time comprehensive sustainability insights for you and we can show you some of these reports on a separate discussion. We plan to have about 150 data points represented in the next few months.

And needless to mention today, iESG will cover investment portfolio that is over $1.3 trillion as assets under management. So very comprehensive, addressing present issues in data and data explainability and is already being used for many companies around the world, and we think we'll be in a position to provide people the ability to access this ESG data and then to help them score it and manage the trail of scoring it through a record of how they scored it and why they scored it at that point of time and to get insights into when they need to change this score.

So that's a bit of picture on ESG. It is something that's very important right now and evolving quite rapidly, and we've actually been able to leverage our data and our AI platforms to help service it, which is why the world's largest sovereign wealth fund chose us compared to competition, which was pretty much all the major players that do ESG scoring today.

I'm going to touch on one more new business area. If you go to the next slide, very quickly. So I want to touch on another cutting-edge AI solution, which leverages both eMACH architecture and our dock to API intelligent document processing automation platform. It was implemented for Magic invoice, which is now in the accounts payable automation space.

I think Magic Invoice intelligently automates the end-to-end account payable process. Some key differentiators of Magic Invoice include smarter handling of format variations, multi-modes of invoices because, as you know, invoices come in multimodes. We ingest that data from those invoices. We integrate across internal and external ecosystems and accounting providers.

We provide quality improvement to documents in case documents need to be further improved on, we improved the quality of some of those documents, resulting in higher accuracy and validation, and thereafter, verification of all purchasing data. This multi-hierarchy approval process also means that the right people can approve the right things and end-to-end, this approval process, the processing process, again, we are targeting a lot of the BPO industry that does this, I think, is significantly upgraded with this capability.

We have 7 clients, and we hope to sign many more which are in the pipeline. If you go to the next page. So some of these competitive advantages is a combination of bringing together our -- again, our fabric data platform, again, rolled out on a cloud and AWS and is rapidly eliminating operational processes in the invoice management flow.

And if you go to the next slide. And the value proposition, if you really look at it, the magic invoice, enterprise can expect to eliminate data entry of invoices, reduce cost of processing, significant reduction in fraud, overall operational efficiency, ultimately freeing up a lot of time for the CFO and the finance function to leverage the data as a source of financial insights so that they can improve the cash flow for the company, attract vendor discounts where appropriate and faster payment cycles and better visibility across the overall function.

We expect in the next few months to also add sophisticated capabilities of matching the invoices with POs and a real-time comprehensive insights to further strengthen the product capability and its value proposition. So these are 4 businesses we spoke about at a high level. There was insurance, there was the wealth business, there was the ESG side of the business, connected in a way to wealth as well as to banks that want to use it. And the final one that I touched on is the Accounts Payable invoice processing business.

Now if you go to the next slide, I'm going to touch -- a few minutes on the technology of how we implemented this AI. Next slide. So our shift from products to a data and AI as a platform with intelligent document and data processing capability houses a variety of data models for specific AI outcomes across right now, wealth and insurance, but many other businesses in INTELLECT are beginning to tap on these capabilities. These capabilities allow users to gain that extra intelligence and capability. We all know how people do it in ChatGPT across areas today, and I'm sure many of you are using it.

But this is very specifically related to a specific business outcome, and therefore, our products and intelligence come together along with the right workflow to fulfill whether it was underwriting or the relationship manager that I spoke about. So specific tasks and over time is going to be utilized by many products because this platform is evolving quite rapidly. It has fabric data services as well as the intelligent document processing platforms. The 4 systems that you see on the top, I talked to you about 3 of them.

If you go to the next slide and do this in still stages, okay, one at a time. I'll tell you when to click. So the first stage, if you see this is a progressive sophistication of our product and platform ecosystem, will create a differentiated customer service ability to entities to build and configure their own capabilities. I think between 2015 and 2018, we saw the first wave of what Intellect invested in, in an AI and data platform, both for sentiment analysis and data aggregation.

If you click forward. In wave 2, between 2018 and 2020, we started using this platform for one of the largest wealth providers in the U.K. and for all our insurance businesses in the U.S. on the data side with our product, Risk Analyst, which has now been upgraded many times, that takes input from multiple data sources and then actually helps you underwrite more efficiently, which I touched on.

The third wave, which has come now between '21 and '23. I already touched on Magic Submission, Magic Invoice, ESG and Risk Analyst. I didn't touch so much on iSherlock. This will be a variant that will help under ESG focus only on governance and improve the quality of people's governance. I think in the last call, we had a brief demo on what is the potential of iSherlock and how it can give you governance information.

If you click forward. So the vision is to have an ecosystem of data and AI that is open and innovative to help customers and fintechs, develop and deploy their own AI models on our fabric platform eventually, that will take a combination of data and intelligence and actually help you implement this at scale for your business for different areas that we will already enable you across the various areas of financial services. So this is a very interesting evolution that's beginning to take place on the AI side.

And our platforms ability to deal with data and intelligence is coming together very strongly on this fabric platform. And Intellect AI is using it very strongly for insurance and wealth, but there are several other businesses that will be using it in different ways, you saw Rajesh talk about data and ESG in his slides. And I'm sure Manish has a lot of similar areas that he is already working with us on in the trade, supply chain, payments areas. And I think the Intellect AI, I think, will be positioned very well and has a very strong pipeline going forward.

Thanks. I can hand over to Manish or Arun if there's any other...

[Arun Jain, executive]

Thank you, Banesh. I think this is the entire fabric platform, what Rajesh has covered composable platform, eMACH.ai, where the retail banks can compose their own solution. Banesh unit, IntellectAI covers the entire fabric as a core platform. On the top of it, we are bringing an embedded points. So a lot of questions are there on ChatGPT and other things, but this is the final nature of embedding the API into processes. It's not generative AI, this is a varied AI, which is different from it.

And this is -- what is -- what are we disrupting. We are disrupting the BPO industry today, BPO or KPO industry to make it a next level of robotic automation, which was being promised 5 years back to bring to reality with no touch, low touch decision-making. With this third business unit, which is Manish will take you to the new avatar of GTB, which has evolved in the last 7 years of his journey to a very distinctive position for the market across the world. Over to Manish.

[Manish Maakan, executive]

Thanks, Arun. Now so thanks for, I think, a very powerful presentation. Banesh, it's very strongly aligned to the AI future is definitely inspiring all of us. I'm going to try and in the next 20-minutes odd give a shape of where we are and how we are driving profitable growth with market leadership as a core agenda and how we help our customers, our associates, our partners, win with iGTB, that's the core mantra for today's session.

I'll give quick highlights on what are the banking trends and what technology spends are there because this becomes an input for where we invest and where we grow. And then we look at are our products aligned to it, our customers winning with it and how do you support with a partner ecosystem and what are the analysts continuing to say about us, which we have shared multiple times before.

To begin with, if you look at this data from McKinsey, the commercial payments is continuing to grow, and they grew 11% globally. And if you look at across the $1 trillion mark and 53% of them were commercial payments. So that's the space we are supporting. And this space is counting -- then from a transaction volume has grown 19%. So there's high growth and the value and velocity and volume. All 3 variables are continuing to grow as we become more and more digital.

From the -- what are the industry analysts looking at from trends to support this growth, this kind of volume. What they're forecasting is what you need is the customer engagement, which is hyper-personalized and has got leveraging AI to offer treasury capabilities. The payments have to be real time and with ISO 20022 formats being swift in rolling them out. How are you going to adapt to that. So there is a common patterns and what sense will you make of that data to monetize it.

The third wave, which we have consistently looked at is the digital transformation, where is the API-first and cloud-native technologies, which we all have been talking about and delivering too. It is getting to a next level where ecosystems have to be open so that you can embed and be part of a larger network, you get consumed and you consume something so that everyone gets the network effect. For that, you need embedded banking capabilities and the product innovations are for real-time treasuries, commercial loan originations and how do you make trade really 3.0 digital and support the supply chain growth.

This is what Celent says are the core needs, which they are seeing corporates demand of the corporate banks. Then we looked at what is the technology spend happening around the growing volumes and the new capabilities which are required. So it's about -- it's growing at a 6.5% CAGR, is growing from $7.1 billion to $10.3 billion and $10.3 billion is a corporate banking application only spend. This is the area where we play. This is not the full corporate banking spend. That number is much larger. And out of that, 2/3 of that is in the transaction banking space.

So we, as Intellect iGTB are focused on an addressable market, which is about $7 billion. This just gives you a perspective. I'll connect back to this towards the end of the slide. So the transaction volumes are growing, capabilities are becoming real time and closure and the spends for that is growing. So how are we leveraging that in our product leadership journey?

We defined our mission is consumerization of commercial banking. What does it mean in a very simple layman's language. We, as individual retail customers, we get instant gratification of what we want and we are getting hyper-personalized. Why would a commercial bank be any different where we as individual corporate managers need to consume a technology any differently, why would we expect anything to be a [ T+1 ] kind of a thing. So all of that is what we are trying to leveraging our technology, bring down the tool commercial banking, which is a hyper-personalization, real-time connected journeys, action-triggered insights, immediate gratification, friction-free experience at scale, and a desire and trust-based decision making.

So we've looked at all these 6 tenets, and we are continuing to leverage our technology to deliver use cases to the customer journeys where this can be delivered. Today, we very proudly feel that this -- we are only a single global ecosystem for consumerization, which can offer the entire corporate banking exchange, a full digital transaction bank for midsized banks, liquidity, investment, deposit, virtual accounts, cash management, payments, trade, supply chain, all organically built on a single-data architecture.

I've got a lot of my peers, some very respectful, some very big -- larger than me, but they have all gone through acquisitions, and we have seen lack of consistency in architecture, what it does, and that's what we are seeing some of them fall out. So remaining organic self-funded like Arun called out, this is what we have been driving. And the scale of -- I will give you examples while on the screen, it shows what we have managed to do, I will show that in individual products, how we have scaled that up. All of this has been built on an eMACH.ai architecture, which is the best comment I got of is, Manish, from one of my largest customers based out of U.K., their group CIO saying, "Manish, this architecture is wonderful, every architect promises me, every sales company promises me, but what I'm proud to is, you have landed it in my environment and we are live on this". That's the difference between an aspiration, a sales pitch and having in production-grade ready architecture serving close to $1 trillion of deposit base. So that's the scale it serves with 50-plus countries.

This is our best-selling platform on corporate treasury with now 56 countries and 54 customers. And out of this 24 are amongst the top 100 banks of the size and scale of more than $100 billion asset size. A digital transaction banking for all growth markets and emerging markets, we are -- in 7 markets, we are practically the de facto standard with more than 70% market share in those markets and continuing to grow deeper with each one of them.

Our virtual accounts is what is, we're helping banks to manage their deposits right now better. We've seen how flight of deposits has happened in U.S. and how solutions can be offered, where you can offer reconciliation real time. So Virtual Accounts is a very important tool as we go forward in our journey.

Payments has been there consistently. And there are many players over there, and we are also amongst them. One of the common things all of us will say, we have these many rails and we are across these many countries. But not anyone else right now says is that we've got cloud-based context sensitive corporate payments, which means I understand the context of your transaction and I help you take a -- recommend a decision for you what is the best route and what's the cheapest transaction for you to be able to execute. So that's a differentiation because of AI we have been able to bring in.

CBX has our largest footprint now with 78 customers. We started this journey taking the assets off-city, which all of us know and having built that for more than 100 countries, that journey continues. And we've been able to replicate across now 78 customers with 55 country footprint. And it comes with 100-plus user journeys prebuilt with 450-plus open banking APIs creating the integration.

Our youngest platform, which is fortunately born in an age which was micro services and AI, which leverages iColumbus AI for trade and supply chain. And we've now got about 24 customers supporting 11 countries, and we built it around how to leverage AI to simplify trade. Trade is a lot of paper-based process, which happens and how like, what Banesh prior to me showed on Magic Invoice, how we leverage that on Magic LCs and Magic invoices, and we make all of this work, which is so much paper-based, defect-prone and needs a lot of manpower, how we automate and make it trustworthy. So that's a significant differentiator leveraging AI. We brought in trade and supply chain, and I hope to continue to share more wins around this platform, like we've been sharing across all other previous platforms.

So with these 5 products, what's been our customer leadership journey. I think this is the biggest proud moment for me personally and for all of us at Intellect. Our current corporate banking leadership journey, now more than 60% of the world's top banks across every market, if you will see 4 banks out of 10 in North America, 7 out of 10 in Europe, 9 out of 10 in Middle East, 7 out of 10 in India, 5 out of 10 in Asia and APAC.

These are the scale of customers who are leveraging our technology who are trusting Intellect and who are growing along with us and we're growing along with them. I don't think there's another vendor on corporate banking, who can demonstrate this depth on this width of customer base across the board. I think it's our moment now. It's about going deep in them and going into deep in each of these markets and continuing to scale what we managed to do. So we've now crossed -- last quarter, we crossed the 100 mark of number of customers for us, which is where, continue to focus on cross-selling more products to them to grow our journey.

I think all of us cherished looking at this picture and hopefully, all of you will become bigger promoters for Intellect. This is the kind of customer base which we have across the world today. So when you have that customer base, what becomes very important is, do the customers trust you or they promote us? So this is a core metric, which I take very personally and consistently focus on if you deliver first time right to the customer, if you put customer at the center, if you are solving his problems, business will come to you.

Business will come in terms of same customer, business will come in him recommending to others. And as they move, they'll just call us. Liquidity as a platform, 70% of our sales are buyers who are not buying it first time. They have bought at least twice before. So that's the kind of effect -- network effect it creates because of the NPS focus on and how we drive this input.

This has been led by customer experience very passionately driving it. Interesting to see McKinsey put that down in a statistical form what it does, and we've experienced it. We focus on the customer experience the growth is 2x. It's all about knowing the customer personally and having that one-on-one relationship at all levels, focus on medium to long term versus trying to make a short-term buck from them and consistently measure and improve the customer experience. This is where the magic happens.

This is an example of my top 10 customers, how over the last 10 years, they have continued to grow and consistently are delivering revenues to us. It's about $450 million in the last 10 years from these 10 accounts only we managed to grow. And it's continuing to focus on go deeper. Each of these customers are marketplace and not an individual customer. And we just focused on GTB. And we managed to take some bits of consumer into it. We're now taking AI into it. So taking all Intellect assets deeper into these customers. Those are our golden nuggets.

This is a slide I've shown multiple times. Last time, I showed we were at 2.7 products per customer, and we've reached 2.9 products per customer. So the continuous focus on cross-selling to the customer and going deeper is showing up -- our target for FY '26 is to get 150 customers, which can help and get to 4 products which can simply by that mathematics, grow to twice our revenue and grow our market share from 2.9% to 6%.

Now 6% of market share, if I can extrapolate that to a $7 billion, all I need to do is keep showing my value better, better customer experience, you can all multiply the numbers what it can possibly do. To support all of this, we've built a very strong power-sage brand, along with iGTB Oxford. Next week, we have our eighth session happening in Oxford London, and this is where the world's best coming and network and contribute to each other on what's happening in transaction banking and how we are driving.

Again, if you will see every such measure has an NPS score of what it means and why we drive. And this is, again, an example of the banks who come here -- who come and design solutions with us who is -- we build joint desire of where the transaction banking is coming, and we trust each other or where we're going. I'll stay -- keep this for 10 more seconds so that we can all absorb and see the company we keep. And this is our pride and this is our something we really live for to serve and grow along with each of these customers.

And all of this is supported by our 8012 FinTech design center. We bring them here. After we drive desire, we bring them here. We do POCs, and we help them innovate and deliver what they want to do it. Now going forward, a very significant focus on last 18 months has been to build 2 very strong strategic partnership. I've shared Microsoft before. The second one we're now working along with is Accenture.

So one strong cloud partner and an AI partner and one strong digital partner. Along with them, the 3 of us, we are looking at creating magic in the marketplace. This is where something different will happen in the next 3 years. So keep an eye on this, and we'll keep sharing more with this. This is the vision we built along with Microsoft to build a network for commercial banking, and this is what we intend to build and scale up to be able to support across the world in these many markets.

Finally, on the analysts. Everyone have reduced the number of presentations, but you can look at each one of them. Every customer rates us #1 by far in everything. One platform, iColumbus, which is trade finance is the only one which is not #1. It is #2. So we live by that value, be #1 or #2 or get out of the business, and we're continuing to live up and do to that with all -- the team is committed to take trade and supply chain also to a #1 platform over the next 3 years, and we'll keep sharing that journey.

And this is the leadership management team, which you have all seen consistent since inception. All of these individuals, you see they have all been prior customers of Intellect. And that's why I say it's been built by customers for customers. Thank you very much.

[Unknown Executive]

Thank you, Manish. You finished in 20 minutes' time. So nice to have it. So now let's leave for the question-and-answer session, Praveen?

[Praveen Malik, executive]

Okay. Thank you. Now we are starting a Q&A. [Operator Instructions] We first have Rucheeta Kadge from iWealth. Please unmute here.

[Unknown Executive]

Put 2 people in the row.

[Praveen Malik, executive]

Next, we have Mr. Mohit Jain from Anand Rathi Securities.

[Mohit Jain, analyst]

Yes. So 3 questions, sir. One is on the license revenue. Now this obviously has been very volatile and an extremely strong quarter versus what we thought. But how do we look at license revenues going forward? Do you still see that shift to SaaS happening impacting growth? Or do you think most of it is done and now they will be maintained in proportion? That is one.

And second related question is on SaaS/Platform growth. This number of Y-o-Y appeared a little slower compared to the excitement that is there in the market. So what is happening there? And a related thing is what is the update on GeM. Is it still driving bulk of it? And is it up for renewal next year? And what do we plan to do there?

[Arun Jain, executive]

Okay. So as you -- we mentioned in the past that licenses and SaaS are the 2 options we have to be given to the customer based on their preference. Some people preferred license model and some people prefer SaaS model. So there is a balance of the 2 options, which is there. Some companies have decided to only offer SaaS. But as an Intellect, we are aligned to the customer centricity, and that's why we are offering both solutions. So predicting a particular year, how much SaaS, how much license. It's not our agenda. Our agenda is at how much license-linked revenue can we grow year-on-year? On the last 5 years basis, our license-linked revenue growth is close to 34%. That's what we want to drive it.

[Mohit Jain, analyst]

But sir, do you see license revenue also growing year-after-year? Like initially, we thought over the last few quarters that now shift is happening towards SaaS. So license growth should slow down and SaaS should accelerate. And you also spoke about some slower growth for a few years because of the shift. So is that phase broadly behind in terms of customer preferences? Or do you still think that may play out?

[Arun Jain, executive]

Do not predict anything on this Mohit. You just look at all of them together, 3 elements together.

For investment perspective, all the 3 elements gives you the license-linked revenues, which is a high margin profit.

[Mohit Jain, analyst]

Right. And sir, second was on the SaaS platform growth Y-o-Y and then contribution of GeM?

[Arun Jain, executive]

Yes. So SaaS growth on Y-on-Y, I think GeM is there, but it's not main contributor, a lot of contribution coming from AI platform, which Banesh highlighted -- Rajesh has highlighted on the customers in Europe. So those are all SaaS platform customers. The revenue buildup in SaaS is back loaded when we signed the deal by the time we come to the SaaS revenue stream, it is a 12 month to 18 months, sometimes 24 months delay cycle between when we signed the deal and actual SaaS even start getting booked. Well, that's about SaaS. GeM is coming for renewal, so it will be -- we are fighting the RFP battle for the renewal of the GeM.

[Mohit Jain, analyst]

Okay. And sir, last, actually on the finance side. So our cash generation for this year was very low. So what happened here? And how do we see it going forward in FY '24?

[Arun Jain, executive]

We mentioned that all our internal transformation happen because of our internal cash generation. I think we reinvested back. So in the month of April last year, we mentioned that we'll be using our internal cash to drive the change rather than taking a funding from outside. So all this eMACH.ai has happened with [indiscernible]. So it's a great success for us to have them maintain this without diluting a single penny we could able to transform the organization. Obviously, next year, the cash will be higher in our kitty because major investment of eMACH.ai is behind us. So cash generation will be better.

[Mohit Jain, analyst]

Sir, on the receivable side, like it was also stuck in working capital, some of it apart from the capitalization. So is there any improvement seen there?

[Arun Jain, executive]

It's not quarter-on-quarter or year-on-year. Sometimes the project completion happens, that has contracted and now due has grown to INR 300 crores. That's a big number in receivable cycle. Where these back-ended projects I have mentioned in the beginning that it's milestone-based payments because of milestone-based payments, it becomes due only when a particular milestone is completed. So that is -- we have a locked in. It's a kind of a business model we are in.

[Mohit Jain, analyst]

Okay. And sir, capitalization for the quarter was, how much?

[Arun Jain, executive]

Similar 34, 35.

[Mohit Jain, analyst]

Calculations on getting back to 20%.

[Arun Jain, executive]

Not getting, but you said 20%.

[Mohit Jain, analyst]

Yes.

[Arun Jain, executive]

We are not going to get back to anything. We are -- trajectory same, expectations are different from you.

[Praveen Malik, executive]

Thank you, Mohit. Next, we have Mr. Anil Sarin from Centrum.

[Anil Sarin, analyst]

Yes. Sorry, I was on mute. I didn't realize it. So Arun and team, fantastic and you've just sort of lived up to our expectations and you've gone beyond. So congratulations on doing what you are doing. Everybody is talking about AI, and you are now -- I think a lot of interest will come. You tell us about what you are doing in AI. So congratulations on your foresight and your positioning. I mean people are just doing Chat and you are doing -- you are finding solutions through AI. So a lot of foresight involved in that.

Sorry. So I'll just come to the question without wasting everybody's time that your -- this -- one was, growth has already been addressed. But this -- if you can just elaborate on the SaaS side, we get the combined thing, SaaS as well as GeM. And the earlier participant has already asked that. But I just wanted to -- I wanted your view on where you see the SaaS, given all the banking turmoil that is happening in U.S., Europe, et cetera, how does -- I mean 2 things. One is how do you see SaaS growing as a percentage of your revenue? That is part one. And second, with all this negativity that is surrounding, I mean, the recession is fine, but banks, in particular, are getting hit. So how do you get impacted by that?

[Arun Jain, executive]

Okay. So you asked 2 questions, basically banking. And -- so what -- when the banks are getting impacted, they want to reduce their operational costs. There are 2 agenda banks have. Some people have a very old technology architecture like managing air conditioning in old building, which is 100 year old. So it cost you more. So you need to change the architecture of the building to commit to the newer building.

Where all the cost efficiencies can be built in, that's what Rajesh is doing or eMACH.ai Manish is doing. [indiscernible] architecture.

Second part is, where SaaS plays a role in our journey. We play at all in specific services to be given, but Banesh has highlighted Magic Submission. Magic Submission is our underwriting policy. So now we are able to provide the unit pricing per policy for end-to-end processing of the policy from the e-mail when the policy comes to the policy get to the table of underwriter.

We add all the value addition, validation, data entry everything, and there's a unit price of it. So the great opportunity for us to grow SaaS revenue is the way GeM revenue grew, first 2 years it was slow. Third year, fourth year, it started growing. Similarly, Magic Submission is one area where we are expecting this revenue. Today, the U.S. has close to 200 million policy submission every year.

And we are able to price our submissions between $10 million to $20 million submission and having a $5 million policy is close to $50 million to $100 million SaaS business around it. Similarly, there is a Magic Invoice business, which is Accounts Payable business. We have a similar kind of equation is there that per invoice processing, where multiple companies have become rawsome and many companies have come in that space. So this is the second space in SaaS, which you're looking at.

Third space in SaaS, we are looking at ESG. ESG to be offered as a service with a complete ESG wheel available to it, which is a third SaaS service. Fourth SaaS services, hosting a core banking, hosting AI Credit360 is the fourth -- the fourth and fifth service in SaaS business. So these are the 5 services which are there, then we are looking at VAM to be hosted, virtual accounts management embedded finance to be hosted. So these are the multiple platforms, which is being highlighted in this presentation.

So there are close to 8 platforms where we have a clear go-to-market strategy, but the traction will not be quarter-on-quarter. Traction will be over the 3-year period. So we have and which is a 3-year plan and 2 quarter visualization or planning. So we are working on a 3-year horizon with 2 quarter focused on ensuring that we are able to meet the numbers as well as have visualization of 3 years. So that's a long answer to your short question on what is the SaaS strategy what we have.

And U.S. banking industries are in turmoil, but if turmoil is to happen then this is as I mentioned, Brexit happened, 3-quarter delay happened, Ukraine happened. We have 2 deals lost similarly in the U.S. this crisis happened. We lost 2 deals again over here. No, the things which will happen as a part of our journey. But after 2, 3 quarters, it comes back to the same thing because technology needs cannot go away either from bank nor from insurance company.

[Anil Sarin, analyst]

I just had one follow-up question, that in the earlier calls, I think Rajesh had mentioned that in core banking, you were in the last 3 in a couple of tenders, which tend to be over more than a year-long process. So if you can provide an update as to where we are, are those tenures, are those processes still on? And if yes, where are we in that?

[Arun Jain, executive]

Rajesh?

[Rajesh Saxena, executive]

Yes. So I think we continue to be -- we continue to be in the same process. So I think, as I had mentioned earlier, there are a large couple of deals that we are in the final stages. And these, in the next couple of quarters, we should be able to announce the results of these tenders. So I think to answer your specific question, we continue to be in the process. And actually, we've added a couple more in this -- from that perspective, and we will -- we should have the results in the next couple of quarters.

[Anil Sarin, analyst]

And we are still in the top 3? Or is it being further pruned down to maybe top 2 or something like that?

[Rajesh Saxena, executive]

In a couple of deals, I think we are still in top 3. In one deal, we are now in top 2. So I think a deal by deal, this varies, but we continue to be there. As I said, we continue to face this 3 -- Europe and the large field is now -- continues to become a Temenos Thought Machine and Intellect fight.

[Praveen Malik, executive]

Next, we have Sugandhi Sud from InCred.

[Sugandhi Sud, analyst]

Congratulations on the good results. So I just wanted to just continue from the point where the last speaker left. I noticed that in your conversion for last quarter, you have -- and among your destiny deals, you have 1, 3 deals in the greater than INR 50 crore bracket. And I'm just doing simple math, I understand, is it down to the tenure of these deals, could you give some flavor of the tenure or the nature, whether it's SaaS or legacy or license -- traditional license? And whether this will flow through in coming quarters? And what kind of time frame you're looking at?

[Arun Jain, executive]

Sugandhi, I think you are doing too much of a math analytical mind on looking at it, what -- when it will happen. I think it's -- I mentioned that all of it is license-linked is more important that they are INR 50 crore deals. In this quarter, these testing deals, which have signed up, I think, 2 are license, one is more on SaaS revenue. So -- but it will not -- you will not able to forecast that particular model so much, Sugandhi.

I think more important is to just listen to the presentation, which 3 leaders have presented and look at what is the potential of these presentations for a next 3 year perspective, whether they can grow 20% year-on-year under those presentations. So that will give you the much better way to forecast.

[Sugandhi Sud, analyst]

And also just on the -- if I -- if I noted it correctly, you said that your intensity of spending on platforms will lower hereon, most of the platform spend has taken last year. And I'm just referring to the cash conversion that was highlighted earlier in the call. So is that correct? Because there is a -- CapEx intensity had gone up last year. So is it expected to go down from here?

[Arun Jain, executive]

That's right. So this quarter, our profit has come back to 23%. EBITDA margin come to 23% from 18% last quarter. So that improvement is happening there. On cash side, improvement will happen. This quarter we'll have more cash to be spent for payout of the bonus for the year -- quarter. But for the whole year, we should have a healthy cash generation.

[Sugandhi Sud, analyst]

So are any margin range that you would point us towards considering that you are kind of stabilizing and your growth outlook is also healthy?

[Arun Jain, executive]

We mentioned our business is designed on the principles of 20% growth, 25% to 30% margin levels. few quarters, a few months, we will be reinvesting back that were based on how the market behaves, what the technology change is happening. But our design is always around 25% plus for the margin, but a few quarters, we'll have a lesser margin when the investments will be higher or some license is not signed or some investments we are doing with the clients. So that shift will be there. So that's how we have designed the business.

[Sugandhi Sud, analyst]

Sure. That's very encouraging. One final question. Sir, if I -- is my understanding correct with SaaS becoming a bigger mix, and we've seen that happening on the last 2 years. The revenue to cash conversion, and I'm talking about the working capital here and not in investment that we do in our R&D. Is that something that should improve because the recognition, the gap between the timing of recognition of revenues and payments would be more aligned in SaaS environment compared to a license environment? Is that something that we can expect going forward a higher cash conversion as SaaS becomes a bigger part of the pie?

[Arun Jain, executive]

It's -- as of now, its SaaS model is not fully mature. So I would not say anything. As of now, we are -- some deals we have upfront payment, some deals we are back-ended payment on milestone basis. So the cash flow and working capital, I think that's not a serious concern, the company has a healthy cash. So that's not such a critical issue for us right now.

My purpose is how much we can win and how much could be repeatable SaaS. SaaS is in a healthy situation in a mature model gives you a 70% plus margin. That's a kind of health of the SaaS business, but that takes almost 4 to 5 years of the work which happens after we are getting it first few client, like Manish is saying the 13 client Magic Submission, there are 7 clients in Magic Invoice. These clients take some 4 to 5 years to get stabilized.

[Praveen Malik, executive]

Next, we have [ Mr. Majid Khan ] from [ CapitalX ].

[Unknown Analyst]

So I would like to ask my simple questions with regards to the results, quarter 4. Sir, my question would be, where you can see in the 3 years Intellect? And my second question will be, I would like to congratulate all the team that have been all the IT companies in the sector, but Intellect is the only product company which I'm proud investor of it. And since 3 years, I have continuously invested in the company and have seen a drawdown of 50%, but still I have a trust on our company because we are a unique company in the whole India, which has a product. And we are the leader in all the sectors, in all our business platforms, and that is a great thing, which definitely soon the market will realize and I hope and I believe.

[Arun Jain, executive]

Yes, thank you for your trusting the company. I think -- and there is a -- huge scope is there. We wanted to show that -- revenue growth will happen, each of the spaces that we are working on. We are competing on the companies which have to invest $100 million to create a platform called, let's say, Magic Invoice equivalent platform.

Our cost of leveraging fabric to meet the same expectation is 1/10 of it. It is between $5 million to $10 million. We are able to generate a quality of the technology, which my corresponding company like Thought Machine invested $550 million of core banking, which is still not complete for us to do that job, it takes much, much, much more money from our perspective. And that's a very unique company. That's a unique strategy. That's the kind of the people we have, the kind of the committed people team we have, is amazingly satisfying for all of us as a shareholder and all of us as associate of the company.

[Praveen Malik, executive]

Next, we have Mr. Rahul Jain from Dolat Capital.

[Rahul Jain, analyst]

Yes, can you hear me?

[Arun Jain, executive]

Yes. Rahul, please go ahead.

[Rahul Jain, analyst]

Yes. So first of all, congratulation on strong numbers. And I just want to need some more input on some of the comments that were made during the call. I mean, of course, you said that what is your view on the U.S. banking issue that we are facing right now. But you also need to consider the fact that we analysts do attend so many IT services call and they keep talking about a delay in ramp-up, delay in decision-making. So since you have also done that kind of a business, any thoughts you want to share that in such situation, do you see that people prefer more transformation because they see that as a solution? Or you think it's just a matter of time that we may see better decision-making on the other side of the business also? First clarity on that would be helpful. And then I have one more question.

[Arun Jain, executive]

First of all, our business is very well diversified. U.S. exposure to us is much lower than Canada, we have more businesses in Canada than U.S. U.S. banking business is very small in single digits, while insurance business is growing in U.S. and kind of single digit. But single-digit is only exposure, which we have in U.S. So U.S. is not impacting us significantly for the slowdown.

But to answer a general question since you attend other services conferences. Obviously, such failure of 3 banks in a row will have an impact on the psychology of the technology investments, which will go in the Boardrooms. So every Boardroom will be worried about it. But do they have an option to adopt a bank, they're fine? They don't have an option. It's a question of some delay, 1 or 2 quarter delay, where they have to choose some platform or some technology for transformation.

And there, we are providing kind of a technology, which is do-it-yourself technology, eMACH.ai where we are fitting in our value proposition more sharply for those banks who are well-capitalized banks are there. So those banks are still looking because these banks who have been -- the problem which has happened, they are getting merged in a larger bank, the portfolios are getting submerged.

So to me, it's a 2-quarter, 3-quarter agenda where slowdown will happen. Services will get impacted because people -- banks are looking for the option where buy and build can be together.

[Rahul Jain, analyst]

Right. And one more question regarding the comment about that, what Rajesh said that incrementally, banks are looking for core transformation project. So are you seeing a sizable increase in the deal that you are pursuing that is point one? Secondly, you said that there was a competition, which is now limited to 2 relevant player, and we know that Temenos is struggling with a lot of leadership changes and Thought Machine is there, but their return on investment may not be as attractive. So the competitiveness on price could be far better. So how you see a change in the landscape from a competitive perspective as well as from a deal-size perspective?

[Arun Jain, executive]

Rajesh?

[Rajesh Saxena, executive]

So I think to answer your question, I think -- and these are some early trends, is that we are definitely seeing large banks coming in for core banking transformation. And that's definitely something that we have seen in the last 18 to 24 months is the market opportunity around large banks, large regional banks coming for a composable eMACH type of an architecture, that trend is definitely accelerated.

I think to your second question, yes, we see Temenos -- we see Thought Machine in most of these opportunities are, let's say, that we start with a long list, and then we come to these 3 players. We are seeing that space and we believe and I believe that we are uniquely positioned because of the kind of investments that we have done in the last couple of quarters on our architecture front and with a pedigree of the depth and the breadth that we have. We are uniquely positioned to capture this space. So that is my belief, and that's what our team is striving for.

[Rahul Jain, analyst]

Right. And just one final question to Arun. I think we have a lot of variety of offering in the Banesh portfolio, which are very exciting opportunity. Any number you want to give then when they can become of some reckoning size, let's say, $100 million or any other benchmark you want to set for it and time line that you think it can achieve it? And secondly, you said about the business, which is all set to deliver 20% growth and 25%, 30% kind of a margin. With the kind of a pipeline you have the kind of start you have for this year, you think and the kind of investment, of course, you envisage for this year, do you think we are going in that zone in fiscal '24?

[Arun Jain, executive]

Yes. So we don't want to give guidance Rahul. We are understanding because market is volatile. So guidance is not there. We keep repeating. We designed the business in the last 3 years, we are able to show more than 20% business. Our design model is 20%. So we stayed with that. The opportunity for Banish, witness to grow the 3 or 4 areas, which is their Sherlock, ESG hedge, still are in the early stages of looking at it. The potential can be between $50 million to $100 million in the next 5 years, but they will be coming at a margin of $30 million, 60% margin or 70% margin business. So it will be highly value accretive on the bottom line perspective. But we need to give some time.

[Praveen Malik, executive]

Next, we have Mr. Chirag from Ashika Group.

[Chirag Jain, analyst]

Congratulations on great execution in challenging time, sir. And I track your company since last couple of quarters. So I have 2 broader questions, particularly in product and platform business, very few companies have got success at global front also? And in India, very few companies are there, which have done a good job. So your company is one of them.

So other than BFSI from a diversification point of view, if I want to know what are the areas where our application will find place later on? Because this last 3 regional bank prices, you're also thinking some way that if we have some diversification then definitely in future, let's say, this time we save ourselves, but let's say, some other unforeseen development happen later part of the year or in future -- so any thoughts on that where we see for diversification? And also to sustain such kind of margin, what are the levers are -- that 5 years or 10 is down the line, we'll have a similar margin profile? That's broad question I have.

[Arun Jain, executive]

Yes. So Chirag. First of all, 5 years down the line margin should be in the range of 40%. Because if you're looking at it from the perspective of FLEXCUBE numbers, AMC continuously grow, so margin improves as product company growth. So first of all, that's a 5- to 10-year type of horizon when you're looking at it. And you're looking for the investment for 5 to 10 years, you have appetite for that if the margin is at 40% levels, whether it's the Temenos or any company.

The beauty of what we have done is we embed the growth curve on those margins and our IT team and technology teams are very differentiated, which is ensuring the growth happens. Margin is not a big deal in product business because once the customer signs it up, it remains with the customer for the next 15, 20 years, so margin maintenance is a much simpler job. Growth is a key important part.

Your question is whether we want to diversify out of financial industry? I don't think so. I think market scope today when you look at it, but Manish puts say $10 billion market size, which Rajesh puts say $20 billion market size, Banesh puts say -- so we have a $50 billion market size. And we are still $300 million kind of ballpark picture. Till the time we are $1 billion, we are not looking for anything to be worried about going left right and center.

[Chirag Jain, analyst]

Sir, one follow-up question. In terms of geographic diversification, is there any plan to increase the start penetration in India because one of our peer in listed space getting good business from Indian bank and financing group [ every year parts are the same ]?

[Arun Jain, executive]

Yes, yes. Yes, deeply in trends in India. A lot of deals are in India now.

[Praveen Malik, executive]

Next, we have Mr. Ravi Mehta from Deep Financial.

[Arun Jain, executive]

Ravi, are you there?

[Ravi Mehta, analyst]

Can you hear me?

[Arun Jain, executive]

Yes, can you be a little louder? Ravi, are you able to hear me. Ravi is not able to connect it looks like.

[Ravi Mehta, analyst]

is it better now?

[Arun Jain, executive]

Yes, now it's fine. Please go ahead.

[Ravi Mehta, analyst]

Sorry for that. So just I heard in the opening remarks regarding some branding strategy for the iGCB vertical, something similar to what we did with iGBT on the Oxford School Banking kind of a course. So I wanted to know what kind of activity are we planning and how it can catapult the product and the visibility?

[Arun Jain, executive]

It's the overall marketing strategy. I think all of it will not be shared in an investor call. It's one part of the strategy, the iGTB Oxford will judge it. So the indication is given there's a big marketing focus on getting into the stage. And I think it's not a right platform to share the strategy.

[Ravi Mehta, analyst]

Sure, sure. And probably any -- so the kind of traction you've seen in iGTB, probably with this branding activity, I think it really picked up well. So we can expect something similar kind of a thing happening here also?

[Arun Jain, executive]

Obviously, all of 3 brands now are solid into 3 LOB and other 3 brands into IntellectAI, GCB and GTB are now having a very, very structured branding methodology around eMACH.ai as a common brand, which is driving the global access.

[Ravi Mehta, analyst]

Okay. And since that, we're hopping on this eMACH.ai platform. So do we have any joint go-to-market strategy with the cloud partners?

[Arun Jain, executive]

Yes, yes. We have -- that's what Manish has highlighted. If you noticed, Microsoft and AWS, both are -- we are very close working with it. So some products are working on AWS, some products are working on Microsoft. So both of them, we have a very strong relationship. I met the President of AWS when he was in India. So it's a deep relationship with both of them.

[Ravi Mehta, analyst]

Okay. Okay. And just one more question. And one small bookkeeping question if I can ask, the DSO days mentioned in the presentation, it includes the unbilled revenue?

[Arun Jain, executive]

Yes.

[Ravi Mehta, analyst]

Okay. I don't know. So maybe I will take it offline because the days are not tallying with -- we'll work it out. So that's why. Sure. Sure.

[Arun Jain, executive]

Is it contractor, we may not be there part of it. No, we don't include contractor but not due.

[Praveen Malik, executive]

Next, we have Mr. Harshil from AUM Advisors. Maybe last 2 questions.

[Unknown Executive]

That's right.

[Harshil Shethia, analyst]

When we see on a quarter-on-quarter basis, the order funnel size that you mentioned in the presentation, has been around INR 7,000 crores in the last 3 quarters. So is it something like the new deal wins have been very slow for the last 3 quarters?

[Arun Jain, executive]

INR 7,000 crore quarter funnel, I think, is a good funnel for us to look at the 10 to 12 deals a quarter, if he will, it's right funnel. So we prefer more the right funnel than the quantum of the funnel. So our win ratios are higher. And our sales effort and presale effort as Rajesh mentioned, it takes 1.5 years to close the deal. We don't want to increase the funnel size. So it's not a consumer business where the funnel interactive proportional to the enterprise sale. The INR 7,000 crores is a good number on which we are.

[Harshil Shethia, analyst]

And can you break up the whole funnel and how much would be SaaS in it?

[Arun Jain, executive]

We don't do it.

[Praveen Malik, executive]

Next, we have [ Mr. Vivek Kumar ] from [indiscernible]

[Unknown Analyst]

See, you've been highlighting this is regarding the revenue recognition policy. This is -- you're doing percentage of completion method, and you also have been highlighting every con call about the execution capital, how you have disrupted in Q4 '22, Prabal Ji and you mentioned how you have put down the work into 4-hour or 2-hour work packet and very few defects in our implementation.

So why I'm asking is there are a few companies which follow the same method, but because of the implementation problems they have to write-off certain kind of revenue. That is where the doubt is coming. It's not about how much is build or unbilled. But if you can give more color on why you think whatever is recognized the write-off would be really less and we don't -- even with kind of customers we are having and the execution capital that you've built will make sure that we will not have a huge write-off? So maybe I'm -- I don't know. I think I made it clear right.

[Arun Jain, executive]

And that's a very good question you have asked. I think we have implemented 43 digital transformation last year. I think this is our core pride, why we are winning the business, why we have -- Manish is so confident on NPS score. This is the core focus, Manish has driven, Rajesh has driven, Banesh has driven that none of the projects of Intellect goes bad. My competition when it goes bad, it becomes difficult to do it. We chose on a strategy to implement ourselves not to give partners till the time eMACH.ai has come in because of that strategy that we cannot allow any failure on the field because this is a business which is execution-focused business.

We need to have -- we need to design our success for our customers, and that's where the core value of Intellect is there. And that's what we discussed about work packet today. Now we have a iTurmeric, where we are seeing our coding requirement be less than 5%. That it will further improve the delivery quality.

[Unknown Analyst]

Now this is coming because percentage of completion has this risk that if implementation is not great, you will have write-off also. I think the second question is -- second question is on IntellectAI, you have mentioned in the last con call that you were looking at 15 deals. And with this banking crisis, I don't know what is happening in U.S. so much. So any clue on the 15 deals we are still there, how would they can be able to close them? Or what is the outlook on that? I'm not asking the number of deals, but outlook on the IntellectAI Insurance business in U.S.? Because you told last year, it will grow at 50%.

[Arun Jain, executive]

Insurance business is growing at that much, Banesh. I think it's...

[Vishwanath Prabhu, executive]

Yes, I think a pipeline, and as a matter of fact, as I mentioned in my discussion, we have very deep contracting discussions and progress with several. So I can just leave it like that.

[Praveen Malik, executive]

Arun, there are 3 more questions actually left . Can we take them?

[Arun Jain, executive]

Yes, just put on the chat box, just combine it otherwise. Just take it up here.

[Praveen Malik, executive]

Next, we have Jagdish Jain.

[Unknown Analyst]

Are you able to hear me?

[Praveen Malik, executive]

Yes, Jagdish.

[Unknown Analyst]

So thanks for good set of numbers. I'm following this company for the past few years. So this -- on the part, right, you just explained about GSA, right? So we are implementing the solution of ourselves and we recently partnered with Accenture, right?

So what is our future for this GSA collaboration? So I could see Finastra is collaborating with a few service providers in India. So they are increasing. So other companies are also collaborating. So in maybe -- not now maybe in the future, how we are collaborating strategy with the GSI, it is the first question.?

[Arun Jain, executive]

Yes. So Jagdish, it is about eMACH.ai.

[Unknown Analyst]

I mean in general sense.

[Arun Jain, executive]

Because of that eMACH.ai, we are creating an open finance platform and because of which we can now offer more partners to come in, GSA partner to come in to have a predictable output. Earlier, we were not giving it to the partners is because we wanted a predictable outcome. Now with the technology we built, we can give it to the partners.

[Unknown Analyst]

And just regarding the partnership with IBM, any updates on that part?

[Arun Jain, executive]

Yes, it's going on very well strongly. We have multiple deals with IBM also. The way Accenture is there, IBM is also there.

[Praveen Malik, executive]

Next, we have Mr. [indiscernible] Investment.

And then we have just one question. This is [ Darsh Jhaveri ] from Crown Capital.

[Unknown Analyst]

And firstly I want to congratulate on great set of results. So I just wanted to -- I had some connectivity issues I missed some of your statement, sorry for it being repetitive. I just wanted to ask whether our revenue panning out our sustainability in terms of revenue and margin growth? [indiscernible]? Sorry for if it's a repeated question.

[Arun Jain, executive]

Last words, I wanted to say that we can do a growth margin. Why should we grow, why the margins should grow and what is the growth assurance we are seeing because of the portfolio and other risks. So I think I think -- I don't have to repeat I've been discussed in the last 2 hours. So if you listen to the recording, you'll find your answers.

[Praveen Malik, executive]

Thank you, sir. Arun, that is -- so we are closing the call. Thank you very much for participating. In case any follow-up questions are there, please do write to us or call us. Thank you very much. Now you can log out. Thank you.