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Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the IndoStar Capital Finance Q1 FY '21 Earnings Conference Call hosted by Motilal Oswal Financial Services. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Piran Engineer from Motilal Oswal Financial Services. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Yes. Thanks, Janice. Hi, everyone, and welcome to the call. On this call, we have with us the entire management team of IndoStar Capital Finance led by Mr. Sridhar. We shall start with opening remarks from management, followed by a Q&A session. Over to you, sir.
Good afternoon to all of you. Let me welcome all of you to the Q1 FY '21 earnings call. I would also like to take this opportunity to wish you and your family health and safety during this pandemic. I would like to first recall some of the updates I had given during the Q4 earnings call on 18th of June. So the first thing which we had mentioned there is the investment by Brookfield. As you know, Brookfield has invested about INR 1,225 crore [ primarily ] into the capital. As to the open offer, [ and they have now completed the open offer also ] and post to the open offer and the private issuance, they now hold 57% of the fully diluted equity shares now of the company. That is the first update I would like to update.The second one is, as we had mentioned, that we are running down the corporate lending business, which had been the mainstay business of IndoStar, and we are going to focus on the retail of this market. So now at the end of this quarter 1, we have 71% retired business and 29% of corporate lending business. And third is that with these 2 major decisions, we have also taken accelerated provisions and aggressive write-offs during Q4, including the write-offs prescribed by the Reserve Bank of India, 10% on cases where we have extended moratorium we have taken upfront in 1 quarter. And we have also taken INR 100 crore of COVID provision, including all that the provision coverage ratio has gone up substantially as against the nonperforming loans. So which these 3 have strengthened the balance sheet, ring-fenced the balance sheet against all possible risks associated with COVID in the coming couple of quarters. So having done that, with the lockdown as well as the COVID impact, we have started focusing on a few important things during this period, particularly in the Q1. So we have first thing, which we are focused is on the rationalization of the cost. So as against the cost, which is more in salary, rent and other expenses, we have made substantial reduction during this quarter and also in the coming quarters. So that would be estimated on a like-to-like basis around 20% to 25% reduction we could achieve. The second important thing, which we are going to focus is on the digitization. As all of you are aware that during the lockdown, we have learned to do everything literally through online and through digital mode. We have done both these things. We have raised the capital. We are raising resources from banks and institutions, everything we could do during this period. And we feel that going forward, digitization will be a very, very critical aspect of our business. Already, our collections and credit processes are -- most of them are through the digital mode. But we are also trying to bring even the sourcing, customer evaluation, documentation through online bookers. So we are focusing on digitization. This digitization will help us reduce the operating expenses as well as the enhanced productivity. And the third important aspect which we are focusing is on the asset quality. As you all know, at the month of March end, the Reserve Bank of India introduced the moratorium for 3 months: March, April and May. So like all the other companies, we have also extended moratorium to all our customers in Moratorium 1.0. And those customers who want to come out of the moratorium and pay, we have allowed them to do. So during the month of March, April and May, steadily the customers who are coming out of the moratorium and paid have considerably increased. And subsequently, in the month of May end, again, RBI extended the moratorium for another 3 months: June, July and August. So during this period, June, July and August, we adopted a different method of extending the moratorium. So as against Moratorium 1.0, where we extended moratorium to everyone, this time, we didn't extend moratorium to anyone. So we have asked the customers, like if they want a moratorium, they should speak. So that is how we have given -- managed the moratorium during 2.0. So you will be happy to know that in the month of June and July, the collections have considerably improved in the month of July in retail business, more than 56% of the customers have paid, leaving 44% of the customers seeking moratorium. Out of this in the CV, about 58% of the people are paid; in affordable home, 76% of the people are paid; in SME, about 50% of the people have paid. So our asset quality remains intact without any deterioration. On the liquidity front, we have enough liquidity on the balance sheet, about INR 2,100 crores of liquid cash is available. This is also aided by the capital of INR 1,225 crore we have raised. Apart from that, even in this challenging period, we were able to raise funds from banks mainly and from some institution, including NHB, at very, very competitive rates. So these rates are ranging from one loan we have got even at below 6.5%, and majority of them is between 8.5% to 9.5%, is what we could raise. So about INR 976 crore, we have been able to raise until today from first of April, has strengthened our liquidity. And we -- with this money, even if no other money is raised too, we would be able to manage all of our liabilities even after March 2021. And our ALM stands very strong. We are positive in all buckets up to September 2021. So aided by a capital adequacy of around 37% plus, a leverage of less than 2 and focus on reduction of cost, digitization and asset quality, the resources debt, which we have raised, partnership with ICICI, I feel IndoStar is in a very strong position to take advantage of the potential, which will unfold post-COVID. So what we are now doing is we are going to focus on 3 retail businesses: CV, SME as well as affordable home finance. So in the CV, our focus is going to be in the mid-segment of customers up to 3 [ retail ] owners, and we will be focusing more on used vehicles. And with regard to new vehicles, we have already built a partnership with ICICI Bank, which would continue. Similarly, on the SME, our strategy would be to source all these loans in our balance sheet and then subsequently decide to park this through securitization or direct assignment with the banks. The affordable home finance business is one of the best businesses, which we have been able to build in the last 2.5 years. And this business is now in a position with the kind of capital it has come -- it can become a stand-alone business. All these 2 or last 3 years, it has been tagging along the CV business. So we have a plan to make this business stand-alone. So for the next couple of years, we are going to lend the money under the emergency credit guarantee scheme, which has been introduced by the government. The earlier scheme, which has been announced by the government was only to the enterprises, private limited and partnership firm. But after the NBFC industry made a representation to the Finance Minister and the Finance Minister was kind enough to consider extending this facility to the individuals. So all our customers are now eligible, out of which, we estimate that INR 400 crores to INR 500 crores can be lent under the scheme. So we have already started lending this, and in the next 1 or 2 months, we will complete this. And I'm very confident about the kind of progress our economy is making. The impact of COVID slowly, gradually coming down, unlocking -- on lockdown, it's happening. I'm sure that we will be able to start lending in normal course to our new customers from October 2020. So I am looking forward to an exciting 2 quarters in 2021. After that, when the complete impact of COVID has disappeared, we have a fantastic road ahead for us to grow. So with these words, I leave the forums for the questions, and we would be very happy to take your questions and answer.
[Operator Instructions] We take the first question from the line of Aakash Dattani from HDFC Securities.
Am I audible?
Yes. Yes.
So my first question is on -- yes, so there is a mention about operating costs on Slide #5 of your investor presentation where it says the CI ratio is excluding front-ended costs. Could you elaborate on this, please?
Amol, can you explain?
Sure. Thank you for the question, Aakash. So as we had mentioned earlier, and Sridhar also covered on the call, that we are creating various initiatives for digitization. And considering these will be multi-pronged project on various fronts, these front-ended costs are related to certain projects that we have undertaken for which we will have upfront cost booked in, a part of which is already baked into the Q1 numbers. So that quantum of amount is around INR 10 crores, which is part of my cost base for Q1.
Okay. My next question is, if I look at last quarter's profit AUM and I add those things with -- and compare it with this quarter's AUM, there is like a negative repayment. So would this be because of interest capitalization?
Sridhar, I'll take that.
Yes. Yes, please.
Aakash, certain portions of the exposure, interest has been capitalized. The growth you see is only because of that.
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of [ Kishor ] from -- individual investor.
So sir, I have a question regarding the branch expansion. So is there any ongoing branch expansions that's planned after -- like after the post-COVID, seems like we will be more focusing on retail lending and all. So is there any plan to expand branches post-COVID?
Definitely. See, branch expansion is a must because the businesses where we are operating is all neighborhood businesses. So we will have to be present. But definitely, COVID has given us an insight as to how to manage that in a different way. So what we are now trying to do is digitization is one which we are planning. The second one is which we are doing is the smart branches. So we are bringing a new concept of smart branches, which would be smaller in size. The CapEx, which we will be doing, it will be lessened and it would be more tech-friendly kind of branches we are going to create. So that is what we are trying to do. So definitely, we will be expanding our branches, but that won't be during this year. It would be only from FY '22. This year, we would be using for the period up to March '21 to prepare the initiatives which I had outlined to you. So smart branches, digitization, some recruitment and all that, everything we will do. So we have prepared ourselves to use the potential, which is going to unfold.
So like, until the next -- until this financial year, so there will be no brand expansion. Is that so?
No, that's a guideline, it is not a rule. If the recovery of the COVID is faster, we would even do something in this year also. But as of now, in the kind of unlocking which is happening, the COVID and all that, we feel that the branch expansion we should do only in -- from FY '22.
And my second question is on asset quality, sir. So if you see the 14th slide, wherein we have the gross NPA for corporate lending remains at INR 1,546 crores. There's no reduction in that, so which means like there's no provision. Is that the right way of estimating your [indiscernible].
Amol, would you like to take this one?
Sure. [ Kishor ], your observation is right. Yes, gross NPA you see of INR 154.6 crores, we have only one account which turned NPA in Q1 last year. And the exposure, hence, you find that number steady. In terms of provisioning, we have done a 10% provision in Q1 last year. And you will see that the net NPAs reduced between Q3 and Q4 last year. So after Q4, the number in Q1 is the same. So INR 154.6 crores is the gross amount, INR 123.7 crores is the net amount. You have the provision, which was an incremental provision we did was in Q4. No incremental provision has been made in the current quarter.
Okay. So like is there any recovery that we are seeing, sir, or this can be like -- how is this account will be set in the future?
Right. So the underlying security that we have is robust enough. It's just that real estate, things have been a bit slow, as you're aware. And last 4 months have -- things are mostly at a standstill. So we are quite confident while we have done the provision, eventually recovery will be there for that particular asset.
So it is supported by the collateral, sir? Am I correct?
Yes. Yes. There's a good quality security available against that.
[Operator Instructions] Next question is from the line of Dipanjan Ghosh from Kotak Securities.
So 3 questions from my side. The first is, can you give your stage-wise ECL coverage that you are having on the book? The second will be, if you can shed some light on the customer profile or geographies as to where stress is larger in the SME or the CV business, the type of customer segment who are really facing cash flow crisis? And the third will be, if I see a slide on moratorium and collections, I see that the collections as on July 31 for listed housing finance of [ 86 ] CV was [ 48 ] and this is a percentage of pre-COVID monthly billing. So I wanted to know if the numerator also includes your collections from overdue accounts. And in case I try to adjust for that, then what will be the collections for, let's say, the last 2 months in each of the segments?
Prashant, would you like to take this one?
Yes. Yes. Thanks, Dipanjan. So I'll actually answer your questions in the reverse order. So the last question that you talked about, the collections as percentage of pre-COVID monthly billing. So in the numerator, we have also taken the collections against overdues. And if we were to adjust for that and purely take EMI billing and EMI collection, only in the month of July in the numerator as well as in the denominator, roughly -- and it will vary by business by business, but roughly, you should see between 4% to 5% of reduction in this ratio. Yes. So that's the answer to your third question. To your second question, which kind of customer profile, I'll first talk about the CV. CV, since the slowdown began sometime -- in fact, this time last year in the whole industry, what came through was particularly in Central India and North India, due to a new vehicle, right, new vehicle financing, particularly which was involved in infrastructure sector. That came under a lot of pressure. And that is true of our portfolio also. So where we are seeing pockets of pressure are Central India and North India, mainly new vehicle financing exposure. That is where relatively, the stress is higher. Comparatively, I think used performance has been all right. As far as SME is concerned, actually, while you are seeing the 58% moratorium there, what we have actually been able to do even during the lockdown is that actually, we have reduced our NPL and actually improve our bucket book. But where we are actually seeing stress is actually, it's more sector dependent. So wherever the activities are ongoing, in all those sectors, we have been able to collect our money. And also in SME, there is a feature that it is not that customers do not have money, but they have taken advantage of the moratorium to control cash. So there is a geography and new vehicle bias, new vehicle financial bias in CV. And in SME, only those segments where activities have come to a halt have come under a little bit of pressure. I'll come to your first question, which is in the stage-wise ECL coverage. So while different business-wise, we have different provision and LGDs that we have taken. So in stage 3, typically, as far as CV is concerned, and we have 2 particular, organic and inorganic, the composite ratio will be about 27%. If you take housing finance, it's about 20%, and SME will also be about 20%, 22%. That's the stage 3. And stage 1, of course, we do minimum 0.4%, which has been set by RBI. But our stage 1 actually has been higher than that across all the businesses. And stage 2 overall is in the ratio of about 6% to 8%. Dipanjan, you are aware that we took that INR 280 crores provision, which was about close to [ 3.5% ] of our entire portfolio in the last quarter?
Yes. Yes. So the number of 6% to 8%, that also incorporates COVID provisions you have incurred in the 2 quarters, right?
No, no. It is -- the COVID provision of INR 280 crores is over and above the normal stage-wise ECL provision.
Okay. So just one question in respect to answer on the second one. So in the SME business, could you shed some light as to -- with respect to your customer segment, what will be the typical customer or even some broad idea as to what will be the customer cohort? And what will be the mix as to -- I'm just trying to understand like what is the portfolio that could be at risks?
So we actually do this business in 10 cities in the country, the metros and the mini metros. And our typical customer is from them, which turnover is up to INR 10 crores. It would be either a manufacturer, trader or engaged in some kind of services. And our average ticket size in this business is about INR 1 crore. And if you look at our portfolio, our total AUM is about INR 1,650 crores, while what is on our books is about INR 1,300 crores only. So a lot of portfolio, we actually have been able to assign. And so -- and the way we are looking at it, we actually think that we have been able to reduce buckets, we have been able to recover our money. So we are not seeing actually a major risk on this particular portfolio as far as increasing delinquency business.
[Operator Instructions] Next question is from the line of [ Sai Kiran ] from [ CLSC ].
Yes. So just one question on Slide #16. If I look at it, the percentage of customers opting for moratorium based on value for CV product is 42%. But if I go to the next slide, when I look at the days past due, the current book as of June 2020 is for CV is 62%. What am I missing? Even though -- does this mean that even some portion of the customers who opted for moratorium had paid the installments? That's how one should read it?
Sridhar, I think I will take that question.
Yes, please. Please go ahead.
So 2 things. One is that the data for moratorium, we wanted to give the latest data. Therefore, we have provided the data as of July, and the data that you're looking at from DPD is as of June. So that is -- but leaving that aside, I think both things have happened. There are customers -- some customers who have been under moratorium, they have paid. And with some customers who are not -- who have not the second moratorium also haven't paid. So both things have happened. So this is the net result of all that has happened.
Got it. Got it. Understood. And the second question, I know you're opening your markets, so I apologize if I'm repetitive. Just a broader question in terms of the CV. We all are aware, I think you were also mentioning in one of the earlier calls that they were showing some stress even through the last year. And now this COVID had come over. How are you looking at the sector as a whole in terms of behavior and also the stress? And what does this mean for the industry growth as well in terms of industry-level NPAs? And second question is that if you compare our CV morat book and also the behavior, how do you compare yourself versus the industry based on whatever the data you would have looked at in the bureau side?
Yes. The CV business, as you know, that it is cyclical. So few years, it goes up and it comes down. And so every company is going through that kind of a cycle, whether it is a manufacturer or it's a financial. And you know that about a year back, post the IL&FS issue, the CV industry also started that downward cycle. Combined with the liquidity constraint growth got affected and then GDP went into a slowdown, now we have the COVID. So it has been impacted. But if you see post to the lockdown, even the unlocking have happened. Some of the data is encouraging, including the toll collection and all that is showing that they are able to revive quickly. And this industry is directly linked to the economy. And our data itself is showing only 40% of our customers are not able to pay for various reasons. So 60% of the people paying is a good progress, and this performance fee is also in line with our competition, which are bigger companies than us in the same space. But I would say that our performance is slightly better than some of our competition, which had given the numbers. And I look at it, our moratorium numbers that are engaging customers are loyal than some of them there. So that is one point. The second point is this. When the economy revives, this will be the first industry, which will come up. So I am very confident in the next few months, the efficiency of this industry, the earnings of this industry, that corporate [indiscernible] will improve and our collections also will go up. Simultaneously, the government is also coming up with some measures, including the scrappage policy. Those are all things which are going to improve the demand for used vehicles substantially where the company is focusing. So we are confident, but we had to go through this turbulence, this headwind. And once this settles down, then the next cycle would be an upward cycle, where we can build a huge value and profitable.
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Piran Engineer from Motilal Oswal Financial Services.
I just wanted your views on RBI's recent onetime restructuring. How are you all thinking about that? Will it be more on a case-by-case basis? Or will it be offered to all, say, stressed customers or all morat customers from September onward? How are you all thinking about that?
See, we are in 2 businesses, only some wholesale and there are only some retail. So in the wholesale, we are in the real estate business, which you know that it has been impacted. Its recovery is a bit slow. So there, we have given moratorium to more number of borrowers. They have short moratorium we have given. And we would consider restructuring there on a case-to-case basis where RBI has given that benefit now. And as we have escrow mechanism, waterfall mechanism for recovering the mode from our borrowers, the reschedule meant is not going to, in any way, affect our cash flows. So that is one kind of restructuring we'll do. And in the case of retail, we are very confident that we have reached a 40% moratorium-seeking customers by July, that we are very confident that it will come to 28%, 25% in August. So that gives us enough courage to look at September, October, November, where we will go to more than 90% of our collections. So there, very few customers would be looking at restructuring, which could be larger customers who are fleet owners, which had come through our acquisition from IndiaInfoline when we bought it. That is likely. But there are some customers in SME will be there. There will be no re-segmenting that's required in the affordable housing finance segment. So in our case, case-to-case only we will review, but more in the wholesale and very, very less in the retail segment.
The next question is from the line of Darpin Shah from HDFC Securities.
My question is on, again, moratorium. So the fall which has happened in moratorium book, how do you define this moratorium? I remember you said part EMI or at least one EMI?
Prashant, I'd like take that. Yes?
Yes. Yes.
So these customers actually have come out of moratorium and paid at least one EMI.
Okay. Okay. Second, I don't know if I missed, but did you ask for NPAs in the vehicle finance book has gone up on a sequential basis? So from INR 180 crores to almost INR 200 crores? Any color there?
Yes. So if you see the numbers, we have had reduction in the SME book by about INR 10 crores and by about INR 19 crores in the CV book. There is an increase of gross NPLs. These are customers where we actually thought it was prudent not to provide the moratorium. We could have theoretically postponed the inevitable by providing moratorium, but we did a review of the portfolio and thought that it is best, even with the moratorium later on, these customers will not be able to pay. And therefore, we took the decision and didn't give the moratorium and allowed these customers to pay.
Okay. And one last bookkeeping thing. Our tax rate for this quarter is on a lower side. Any specific reason for it?
Amol?
Yes. Darpin, there have been a certain change in policy as to how we compute the different tax-related calculation. So certain credits have been taken in the tax line. Hence, the overall ETR looks lower. And just to remind you that in Q4, we also had a huge loss because of the top-up provisions that get done. So that also affects the current tax line as well. So both things have contributed to a lower ETR in Q1.
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of [ Patik Singh ] from UTI Mutual Fund.
I hope everything is fine in the COVID lockdown. So I just wondered if you could give color on the wholesale book and how we are seeing it as to in terms of what are the level of stress testing that you have done, in the sense that there would have been largely the book, at least on the real estate part, is largely concentrated in the cities where the lockdown has been a lot. So in terms of stress testing and security cover, anything -- any color as to what you have done? And whether we see any stress going forward in any of these cases? At least on the macro part, the thing that's not included?
Deepak, would you like to take this question?
Yes. So you're right that the dominant real estate book is in the key cities, which has experienced a lockdown. But you would see that most of our exposures are in the affordable segment. We are not in the high-ticket segment. We are in the low-ticket underlying segment. And therefore, in the stress testing, we feel that as the things will normalize, the collection sales, all efficiencies will improve. And therefore, we are confident that the servicing will be online. And from that perspective, from a free cash flow cover perspective and overall cover perspective, we are there.
Okay. Okay. I just wanted to sort of clarify just -- I think that in the real estate, generally, what happens is some borrowers are already under moratorium because the nature of the lending is specific largely back-ended structures. So does that 90% include everything or it is just these specific 6 months moratorium that we were talking about?
The 90% is specific 6 months moratorium.
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Tushar, retail investor.
Sir, I have a question related to the technology utilization and the risk management metrics that we incorporated. So like is there any focus to improve those perspectives like accurate underwritings and good disbursals, so on this perspective?
See, digitization is one initiative we are taking. With regard to our risk management and the credit policies and all, it's an ongoing exercise. So every time any event the credit policies are reviewed, changes are made. So there is a Chief Risk Officer in there, the national credit managers are there. So that is an ongoing thing. But what I've mentioned about digitization is an exercise, which we are going to do post to this COVID. So that most of the things which we are going to -- which we have been doing physically, now will get converted into digital space. So we are taking that initiative to build something, which would bring a lot of operating expenses saving and also improve the productivity. So that is what we are planning.
So it is like we will also reduce the time for a customer to get the disbursals and all, right?
Yes, turnaround time will be reduced.
Yes. I have a second question related to the -- I'm sorry if actually, this question is related to the previous quarter, wherein -- regarding the impairment of financial instruments in the results. So could you please shed some light on this one, like what you did the last time?
Amol?
Yes. So Tushar, when you see impairment on financial instruments, most of our impairment provisions are against the loan book. And the key item in Q4 last year was a top-up provision of INR 280 crores, which we had taken over and above these accelerated write-offs that we had done. And that INR 280 crores was also on top of the ECL model outcomes, which had a certain amount of provision hitting the P&L. So the key item in that impairment line is these write-offs plus normal ECL, plus the top-up provision that we have done. So the specific item you said about impairment of financial instruments, what you see in the P&L as in provisioning line is the loan loss provision that we made on our loan book.
Okay. So this is regarding which division, sir? Which -- like retail or corporate lending or which account was it?
So I'll just walk you through. So for -- there were certain write-offs that we had done in Q4 of INR 207 crores, which were put into the corporate loan book; INR 60 crores of the write-offs was for the CV book; that INR 280 crores is an overarching provision that we maintain against the portfolio, considering the COVID situation. And there are 2 parts for this INR 280 crores. One is the RBI mandate of having at least a 10% provision on the book under moratorium and we had topped that with INR 100 crore provision, which is sort of our provision available against the full book. Hope that helps.
Ladies and gentlemen, as there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for their closing comments.
So thank you very much for your participation. As I mentioned earlier, we have prepared ourselves very strongly from the capital liquidity, asset quality point of view. So we are waiting to -- waiting for the COVID to end. And we are very confident that the next few years, we will look for very good growth, profitable growth and quality growth. Thank you for your support, and thank you for your participation.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Motilal Oswal Financial Services, we conclude today's conference. Thank you all for joining. You may now disconnect your lines.