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Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. I'm Sowmiya, moderator for the conference call. Welcome to India Glycols Limited Q4 and FY '24 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded.
I would now like to hand over the floor to Mr. Rohit Sinha. Thank you, and over to you.
Thank you, Sowmiya. Good evening, everyone. Thank you for joining on India Glycols Limited Q4 and FY '24 Results Conference Call. We are joined on this call with India Glycols' management, is represented by Mr. Rupark Sarswat, Chief Executive Officer; Mr. Anand Singhal, Chief Financial Officer; Mr. Rajesh Marwaha, Head Sales and Marketing.
Excuse me. The voice is not clear at all. Can you hear us clearly?
Am I audible, sir?
Better. Slightly better, but because it was very [ rolling ], your voice.
Okay. I'm starting again -- sorry for the disturbance. Good evening, everyone. Thank you for joining us on India Glycols Limited Q4 and FY '24 Results Conference Call. We are joined on this call with India Glycols management, represented by Mr. Rupark Sarswat, Chief Executive Officer; Mr. Anand Singhal, Chief Financial Officer; Mr. Rajesh Marwaha, Head Sales and Marketing Bio-based Speciality Chemical Division; Mr. S.K. Shukla, Head Liquor Business; and Mr. Ankur Jain, Head Legal and Company Secretary.
I would like to invite Mr. Rupark Sarswat to initiate the [ call ] with his opening remarks. Post which, we will have a question and answer session. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Yes. Thank you, Rohit. A very good afternoon to everybody who has joined on this hot summer afternoon, particularly from a Delhi perspective. But before we start, I just want to make sure people are able to hear us clearly. Because we could hardly hear Rohit clearly. Can somebody check with some people who have joined, because otherwise, I'll go on they are -- there anyway on mute. So this -- I'll go on for 15 minutes and then we'll not know whether people heard anything. There's no feedback mechanism, no? Can you hear me?
Yes, sir, we can hear you, sir.
I just want to make sure, because Rohit's was clearly not audible. It was very [ gully ], so we couldn't figure out what he's saying. I just want to make sure, people who are attending the call are able to hear us, because they will not be able to give us a feedback, if they're not able to hear us.
Yes, sir. Your line is so clear, sir. So I'll just unmute a participants, you can get the feedback.
You can just speak with them, yes.
Sure, sir. I have unmuted Ashish Sharma, sir.
So can you hear us? I was not sure [indiscernible].
Yes. We can clearly hear you. Before this, we could not hear Rohit. But you're clearly audible, sir.
Yes. So good if you are able to hear us. Unfortunately, we are not able to hear you very clearly. Anyway, I'll go ahead then and hopefully, during question and answer we will be better. Okay. So once again, a very good afternoon to everybody who has joined. Thank you, Rohit. And I'm joined here by my colleagues who Rohit has already introduced. I'll take this opportunity to give you some overview comments on the performance for this quarter as well as the year. And then subsequently, we can take your questions.
So as you have seen, we've had a good year overall and a good quarter as well. So if you look at the numbers in gross negative terms, we have closed a growth of 19% at INR 7,922 crores. In terms of net revenue, our net revenue is up 24% at INR 3,294 crores for FY '24. And in terms of EBITDA, that is about INR 428 crores, up 34%. And a PAT, which is INR 173 crores, up 23% for the full year. So overall, there is a good performance both in terms of revenue and profitability.
Particularly, it has been led by both top line and bottom line performance by the BSPC segment, which is chemicals and biofuels, as well as the Potable Spirits. And a particularly good start as we added capacities for biofuels in the biofuel segment. As we have spoken over the last 1, 1.5 years, it is in line with what we had anticipated after putting up grain-based capacities for ethanol, which has allowed us to do a risk mitigation as far as ethanol supply and costs are concerned.
And now the situation is that we are importing significant quantities of ethanol for chemical intermediate production, and which has meant that the capacity that we have put up is now available to therefore contribute to the biofuel revenue as well as contribution. For the quarterly performance, the gross revenue at [ INR 2,039 crores ] that break up 23%. The net revenue at INR 926 crores is up 50% and EBITDA at INR 109 crores is up 9%, and PAT at INR 42 crores is up 6%.
So we can see that there is a strong performance overall, both in terms of gross and net revenue. Particularly, the top-line growth has been driven by portable spirit. It has been relatively modest in the Chemicals segment for this quarter. And in terms of high-level highlights for the company, you see a revenue growth of 24%, EBITDA, up 34%, and a healthy EBITDA margin of 12.9%, which is better than before. As you know, we've had a couple of tough years and as we have kind of anticipated and also taken actions for, this has led to improvement.
So in terms of our -- I already spoke about grain-based capacities and the new biofuels portfolio helping us both top line and bottom line. In Potable Spirits, sales were driven mainly by increases in country liquor sales with both good performance in Uttarakhand and UP, where we are close to our market leaders, but still leading second. And in IMFL, most of the growth has come from our new market, which is Delhi and the paramilitary segment, and we will talk about it more later on.
As you know, our key feedstock is it's all for multiple businesses. The cost pressures on, if not, to some extent, have continued with high international ethanol prices. Although they are not as high as they were earlier when we spoke about, say, 1.5 years ago. And what has also happened is that in the biofuel segment, there has been some volatility with respect to costs of grain and sales price of [indiscernible], which has meant that there have been periods in between where the margins of grain based ethanol being sold, as biofuels have been a little soft.
Ennature Biopharma, a relatively smaller segment for us, has registered a growth of 7%. However, here, we've seen margin pressure in particular due to a challenging market, price erosion in nicotine and API segment. Having said that, I think the strategy is on track. We are focusing on long tail risk mitigation and building a pipeline of value-added products.
We have also been talking about new value-added products. And I am happy to share that there is a steady and a good start to commercialization of projects in the new value-added pipeline. In fact, we are expecting that the plant to be fully commissioned in about a quarter's time, though we've started significant production already. We are anticipating that the capacities that we have put up, even though they are not very large to start with and that was part of our strategy to have a modular approach, we are expecting that both, by and large, taking a little bit here and there, will, at least in some sections, get fully occupied in the current financial year. And we may be talking about incremental expansions to take the value-added chemicals portfolio ahead.
Joint venture with Clariant. As you know, we have a joint venture, wherein we are putting a speciality chemicals business a couple of years back, IGl having 49% of the share. So that reflects on our overall profit performance. There has been a strong recovery in margins in joint venture performance, mainly driven by a reduction of material costs. As you know, we've spoken earlier, one of the key factors which affects, amongst others, the joint venture performance is the cost of ethylene oxide, which IGL supplies to the joint venture.
And for the factors that are discussed, which is energy cost increases, which have moderated, which have come down for ethanol costs, which have come down, which have moderated, plus the fact that we have put up our own grain based ethanol capacity has meant that the price difference or the cost distance between crude-based ethanol in the market ours has come down, though the delta is still there. And therefore, the relative competitiveness of the JV is better.
So Q4, for example, for the joint venture showed revenues going up 3% and EBITDA, though on a smaller base for the constraints that we said, getting up by 68%. And for the full year, there has been some recovery. We have not failed. So now the full year in terms of top line looks flat, and there's a modest EBITDA increase of [ 4% ]. So which is good news from the perspective of the joint venture as well.
Yes. And I think we will talk about it later, a final dividend of INR 8 per equity share has been declared. And we are utilizing that grain-based ethanol capacities nearly fully to what we have right now to service the contract that we have with oil marketing companies, and that looks steady. But before I move on to a segment price commentary. What I'll do is I'll request my colleague, Anand, to give you a quick update on -- the financials update.
Good afternoon. For the current quarter, I will speak on take the results on consolidated basis. In the current quarter, the gross sale is INR 2,039 crores, vis-a-vis INR 1,615 crores in the last year corresponding quarter, showing an increase of share of 26%. The net sale is INR 926 crores, vis-a-vis INR 619 crores, showing almost about 50% improvement in the net sale in the current quarter.
The EBITDA is INR 109 crores, vis-a-vis INR 100 crores in the last corresponding quarter, showing 8% or 9% increase. While PBT is INR 55.6 crores against INR 45.64 crores, showing an increase of 21.8%. The profit after tax is INR 42 crores against INR 39.84 crores, showing 5.9% growth. The reason for this is due to the higher provision of the income tax. The EPS in the current quarter is INR 13.63, vis-a-vis INR 12.87 in the last year corresponding quarter.
To take up the yearly results, for the year 31th March '24, it crossed nearly INR 7,922 crores, vis-a-vis INR 6,641 crores, showing an increase of about 19%. The net sales is INR 3,294 crores, vis-a-vis INR 2,631 crores, showing an increase of 24.26%. EBITDA is INR 428 crores, vis-a-vis INR 319 crores, showing an increase of 34%. PBT is INR 223 crores, vis-a-vis INR 165 crores, showing a 35% increase. And PAT is INR 173 crores, vis-a-vis INR 141 crores, showing an increase of about 23% The EPS for the current year is INR 55.87, vis-a-vis INR 45.5 in the last year.
I'll say as far as the operation is concerned, this year is the best year in the history of the company as far as the sales and the profitability.
Thank you, Anand. I have broadly talked about segments, but I'll give you slightly more detail, keeping it somewhat short. So if you look at the quarterly and annual performance for our 3 broad sectors, the largest one being Chemicals and biofuels, which we call Bio-Based Specialities and Performance Chemicals, and consciously also saying biofuels because that is a significant chunk of the Chemicals business.
So in terms of the BSPC segment for the quarter, we had INR 623 crores revenue for the quarter, up 60%, and EBIT of INR 47 crores, which is up close to 12%. And for the full year at INR 2,141 crores, the revenues up 25% and EBIT is up 35%, INR 168-odd crores. Potable Spirits has had a good year. But the -- and before I talk about Potable Spirits, I'll give some additional comments on Chemicals.
I think in the Chemicals business, a significant top line contribution has come from the biofuel business. It's a steady business with not-so-exciting percentage margins. So in that sense, it -- but it is something which is kind of adding significantly to our top line and reasonably to our bottom line as well. At an overall strategic level, we see that we are on track in terms of what we are doing in the Chemicals space, we are leveraging the sustainability credentials much better.
We expect that the year will be better for several of the key segments within Chemicals. We expect it will have better traction as far as Glycols are concerned. We expect an overall better year as far as biofuels are concerned because several of these capacities have actually come up this year, and we'll see full utilization of capacity in the current year. And we expect that there will be a good addition of value-added products in terms of how we perform in the current financial year. So that is 9as far as BSPC is concerned.
In the Potable Spirits space, we had a good quarter in terms of revenue at INR 247-odd crores, which is up 32% compared to the same quarter of last year, and EBIT of INR 40 crores, up 37% compared to the same quarter of last year. And for the full year, we registered a revenue of INR 947 crores, up 25%, and an EBIT of INR 164 crores, up 61%, which is a very good performance. And which is primarily, as I said, being led by growth in 2 new areas, which is in the IMFL space, which is Delhi and Para-Military as a new segment for us.
We've continued our strong performance as far as country liquor is concerned for both our key markets, which is Uttarakhand and Uttar Pradesh. Also, you see a very good improvement in profitability, both on account of cost actions as well as pricing actions, which are not so much dependent only on what [indiscernible] I will decide, but it's a factor of getting those approved through the government as well. So it has been all in on a very good year for Potable Spirits.
For an Ennature Biopharma, as I said, a relatively smaller segment for us. It has been a good year as far as top line is concerned, particularly the quarter has been good at around INR 56 crores of turnover, up 28%. And for the whole year, the full year turnover at INR 205 crores is good, because it has crossed INR 200 crores, if I'm not wrong [indiscernible].
So that is good from a top line perspective. But we take, as I mentioned earlier, some pressure on pricing because the market for nicotine and APL has been quite competitive, and a broad strategy to look at taking costing actions and, more importantly, fill the value-added pipeline is on track. So that's how we see that we'll continue to take care of the business and we grow it both in terms of top line as well as bottom line.
So those are my high-level comments as well as far as the various sectors are concerned, and I will take a pause now and then we can take some questions.
[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from Shuk Jain from Emerge Capital.
[Operator Instructions] Our next question comes from Balasubramanian from Arihant Capital Markets.
Congratulations for good set of numbers. And sir, we have seen significant -- am I audible?
You are audible, sir.
So we have seen significant margin improvement on year-on-year basis from like 11% to 13% kind of thing, especially if it comes from Chemicals and Potable Spirits segments. So we can be able to go back to -- like if you look at 2018, '19 that time, so we have seen a margin of higher EBIT rates and for this Chemicals side. So around more than 9% kind of margins we have reported. And Potable Spirits also once upon time, did around -- more than 20% kind of margin. So we can able to do the dose range in next over 2 to 3 years?
At Ennature Biopharma side also, like earlier, we did about 20% kind of margins, but right now, it came down below 20%. So what kind of realizations we have on that Ennature Biopharma, and especially in the agriculture and nicotine side? If you could share more details on the margin side.
Yes. I will ask [indiscernible] comment on particularly Ennature Biopharma. But if you look at overall margin over the last several years, yearly over the last couple of years, I had on EBITDA margin actually going up 9.6%, then it went up to 11.9%. And this year, we are looking at 12.9%. So over the last few years, I can say that whilst the margins, yes, we want them to be better and we would also like to do better. But if you look at the last 3 or 4 years, at an overall level, the margins have seen steady improvement. And I expect that at an overall level, this trend will continue.
We had last couple of years of significant pressure. As I mentioned, some of the cost pressures continue. But we are taking a few set of actions, and I comment on both Chemicals as well as Ennature Biopharma at a very high level. I mentioned to you that some of the actions that we are taking are on the cost side, which includes operational costs, efficiencies, energy, et cetera. And we have a pipeline of actions which we'll continue to take next year as well.
The other key thing for us is to give something that are not always entirely in our control in the sense that, as you saw, freight, energy and feedstock prices for us really went through the roof over the last couple of years. That has adjusted to some extent, but not entirely. Strategically, we feel that our strategy in terms of building on our sustainability credentials, working on newer greener technology is perfectly all right. And to some extent, it is also helping us recover the margins.
As I mentioned, the other key action, apart from managing the bottom line, is to enrich our product mix based on more value-added products. And I can say, as I mentioned, that creating speciality chemicals businesses take time because it needs a significant amount of R&D effort, formulation effort, application development effort. And the collaborations also take -- sometimes a collaboration with the company, even though the volumes are not that large, it takes a couple of years for our product to materialize. I can only say that we are taking those actions which are on the right track. And as you can see and you will continue to see over the next quarter, our progress on the value-added product is steady. So that's the broad strategy.
We understand -- I think you are also probably talking about years, which is more than 2.5 years ago, when we were comparing the business slightly differently because the entire Speciality Chemicals business was also part of the ideal portfolio, which is now part of the joint venture. It is -- I must accept that as a percentage in the entire Chemicals portfolio, the margin percentage the Speciality Chemicals business. For the term Speciality Chemicals Business was higher, and we were also operating on better times.
Let me give you a little bit of context. If you heard some of my calls earlier, I used to say that we take the time, where, for a long period of time, landed if not imported price cost to us was close to INR 35 a liter. It went up to as high as INR 70 a liter. So we were also talking about those times. It's now costs have come down, they have come down, but they've not come down to those earlier levels. So those pressures are there, but I also talked about the strategy to build it.
Now as far as Ennature Biopharma is concerned, I told you about the price pressures and, again, the focus on building a pipeline, but I'll request my colleague, Manish to give you some more comments.
So Mr. Bala, basically, as Rupark said, regarding this new value addition to the production that we are thinking of, offer in the pipeline and just a pricing under this [indiscernible] margin has become low in the reporting feed in nicotine area. And these USD product are [indiscernible]. So these little products are [indiscernible]. But are till now, but now we are in the past or new product lines, like vendors business report and we are certainly, in the USA and Europe. Hopefully, this year, turnover would be at least increased by 45% and the margins will be much better than this year.
Got it, sir. Sir, on the realizations, like last quarter, you had mentioned Thiocolchicoside INR 4.2 lakh per kg and nicotine is INR 7,000 per kg. What are those in current level, on the price point side?
So currently, the nicotine is low, as we are around -- to clarity current prices? I'll get back to you seperately...
Fine, sir. Sir, on the power cost side, it's continuously like coming down in terms of sales right now in this quarter, 7.8% of sales. So we have seen significant improvement on the product cost side. And sir, like we have signed agreement with Renew wind to procure captive wind and solar hybrid power. So this expected in this year, which quarter like it is expected to be -- supply is expected? And like whether this trend will continue? Or how do we see in coming quarters?
If you've read some of our updates that we have given. We've already given an update that there has been a delay as far as Renew is concerned, and the delay has been explained on account of change of certain regulations of core corrections. Based on which, there are certain challenges which is what Renew has told us in terms of the current structure of group captive. Now what this means is that we are in discussions with Renew to look at it again, which means that we cannot -- we are not in a position to give a time line on when we will be able to realize those benefits.
However, we are continuing to pursue not only Renew, but also in discussion with other companies as to how we can look at not only low cost power, but green power -- but secure green power for our operations. Having said that, I may also add, which maybe offensive, we've not spent any money as far as Renew is concerned so far, especially after we've come to know that there are some challenges. So we are in discussions with Renew and also some other people who can potentially supply us green and cost-effective power.
Got it. On [ Thiocolchicoside ], like the commissioning, like most of the commission is expected in Q2. So what kind of volumes we can expect in coming months? Let say earlier we are mentioned 150 metric tonnes, but then we can able to 200 or 300 or on that range?
Yes. So look, this is a plant multiple of capabilities and multiple rector, So significant portion of land has already been commissioned, okay? But we've had that complete commissioning cetera indiscernible] when it happens, which is Q2, et cetera. Now as far as the volumes are concerned, I am cautious that I'm not going to give projections for the business. But I think in a few months, we expect our monthly volumes to -- we expect to cross 400 to 500 tonnes per month.
Hello. Sir, am I audible?
Yes, sir. you're Audible.
Yes. Sir, ethanol, the supply started for the INR 1,164 crores order from oil companies. If the contract time period is [ October '23 ] to October '24. We have started the supply and then the revenue recognition will happen, whether we can expect in this year?
So I would first like to slightly correct you. We call it allocation and not a contract. In the sense,that this is the allocated quantity based on what the oil companies are able to blend and pick up the material. Having said that, I think, by and large, I have looked at, by and large, a little bit here and there. We are in line with supplying what is the allocation given to us. I don't remember the monthly number. We can get back to you to send us separately. But I think by and large, we are in line with it.
So to some extent, we have already started clocking the revenue. And we expect that the revenue will go up a little bit as we start to cater to the allocations that they have been allotted to us.
Our next question comes from Dyulhani from Diamonds.
Am I audible?
You're audible, sir.
Actually, my question has been answered. So sorry for that.
Our next question comes from Manish Shidana, an individual Investor.
My question is regarding the country liquor space. And with the new excise policy being announced by the government of Uttarakhand, so how do the company foresee that impacting our top line and bottom line in terms of the margin as well as the India machine [indiscernible]?
As far as country liquor policy in Uttarakhand is concerned, it is quite favorable because of 2 reasons. One is we have got a higher selling price, we call it [indiscernible] price, which everybody has got because it is as per the slag. Now the second thing is because of the foresight of our top management, we have been very quickly been able to install a tetra machine. It's the first time in Uttarakhand because -- I'll give you a small background. Because of the gauges, plastic was not allowed in Uttarakhand for so many years, ever since Uttarakhand has formed.
But now as a policy change. From 1st April, Uttarakhand excise has been reason for them to bring tetra pack for country liquor as well as [ IMFS ]. And as our CEO rightly said, we are quite -- we are leaders in country leader as far as Uttarakhand is concerned. Now we have we're able to quickly garnered all the resources, and we are the only supplier of tetra machine in the -- tetra pack in Uttarakhand. So much so that it is -- we are following a steady build approach. We can dump a lot of tetra wing to the market, but we want both the bottle as well as tetra pack to coexist.
In margins in tetra pack naturally are higher because there is no glass bottle. There is no cap. There is no label. It is only a smart pack, if I may say that. So we will have this -- we will be able to harness the first mover advantage. And as you know, in our various calls, there are only 2 major players in Uttarakhand, we are there and another is [indiscernible] already does not have tetra machine. In foreseeable future, we don't see. Because it is highly capital intensive. It is a very sensitive thing. It is not like any other machine. It requires a lot of care because for various reasons.
Now the first initial reports of April and May are encouraging, and we have made our very good mark in as far as country liquor in Uttarakhand is concerned. It will not be fair for me to give you a figure, but I can only say we will be able to get most of the country liquor sales, whether in bottle or tetra in Uttarakhand. And secondly, we have also -- since the policy allows tetra pack for IMFL also, so we have taken a plant to introduce tetra pack in IMFL as well. IMFL already, we have about more than 25% market share. And the third step we are taking is introduce new premium brands, which is as far as all other states are also concerned.
So to sum it up, we have 2, if I may, sustained competitive advantages. One is we are the only company who have quickly installed tetra machine and also given the output. Though the consumer acceptance I cannot make a statement that it is successful, it's yet to be ascertained. But the first reports are encouraging. But only over a period of 3 months to 6 months, maybe 1 year, we will be able to make a statement that tetra will overtake glass bottle. And the second is the price increase in recent realization. So this is the -- these are the 2 changes of Uttarakhand.
Sir, so the price increase that you're mentioning would certainly translate into a better margin, I may say so?
Yes, definitely, yes. Yes. Definitely.
Okay. Okay. And my second question is -- sorry.
Unfortunate to discuss, much detail, but we are very fortunate this is our home state. So we can't -- we are quite focused.
And my second question is on certain financial aspects, which we are bifurcating some cost of materials consumed and purchase of stock in trade, which was not that amount in, let's say, March quarter of the last year. But -- sir, what is the difference between the cost of material consumed and the purchase of stock in trade. And why are we showing them separately here?
Why we are not showing them separately.
Why are we showing and what is the difference between this material consumed and the purchase of stock in trade? What is the difference, I want to understand the difference between the 2 items?
Stock in trade is basically the stock in trade is in line, while the material consumed is basically the materials actually consumed by the company for the different products.
So are these materials again of a raw material or -- I mean, or consumables or what exactly are they?
This is basically the molasses and the [indiscernible].
You're referring to material consumed or stock in trade. Purchase of stock in trade, I'm asking a line item which in the current quarter was INR 115 crores.
Stock in trade is basically the saving activities, which we are doing for some of our products.
Well, I still didn't get you. If it is a trading activity, why you didn't shown as an expense? Because corresponding March quarter was INR 2 crores and -- I mean, this quarter it is INR 115 crores. So what exactly is the difference? And...
This is basically the material which we have sold out on the trading activity. And this figure is basically the balancing figure, which I can say, has been shown a stock in trade.
I still not get -- I'll get back separately on this.
So we'll give you the clarification perfectly whenever you'll ask.
[Operator Instructions] Our next question comes from Rohit Nagraj from Centrum Broking.
Congrats on good set of numbers. Sir, my first question is on importing ethanol. So you mentioned that you've started importing ethanol. However, recently, we have seen that there is again new surge in terms of logistic costs. So what is your assessment of the situation in terms of the incremental imports, whether there will be, again, costs that will go up and will it have an impact on the margins? So just a broader view on this year.
Yes, Rohit, good to hear from you after a long time. Rohit, you understand the business quite well. You have followed it up for a long time. And I think, yes, overall, there is some increase, as I have mentioned. There was softening of imported ethanol prices, which went up to [ 47, 48 ] thereabouts in terms of the basic average that comes to us.
And then it has gone up a little bit. So it is -- there is some increase. But at the same time, given the option that we have for what we produce in-house and sell it for biofuel, it still hugely makes sense to use imported ethanol for making chemicals. And I expect that, that will continue for the foreseeable future.
And foreseeable, as you know, depends on so many things. But I see that will continue. I expect that there will be some volatility, some increases. But overall, I do not expect a significant amount of rent either in terms of our top line or our bottom line. There may be some, but I think compared to what we've seen over the last 2, 3 years, it is relatively nominal compared to that. Broadly, I don't see our numbers or our top line getting significantly impacted because of that as of now.
Got that. Sir, second question is on Potable Spirits. So I think we have been doing geographical expansion. So where are we currently in terms of reaching beyond the existing geography? And what is the plan in terms of going across different states over the next maybe 2 to 3 years?
See, as you know what, we have, as our CEO mentioned in the beginning, we have added 2 -- almost added new 2 verticals or 2 new areas of business. One is Delhi. Delhi we scale the RTM, as we say, route to the market. We were earlier working through the distributor. Now the company has been focused, and in fact 5, 6, 7 brands are already there in Delhi market, and there has been a phenomenal growth. So there is focus on Delhi market.
Plus, what has happened is as far as para-military business, para-military consists of the BSF, CRPF, ITBP and SSB. So now what was happening earlier for so many years, all these 4 formations would give a tender separately. So last year, as luck would have it, it became 1 tender and we could see it quickly.
I'm a IMFL person. And I understand this fairly well. So we quickly applied for tendering in all 5 brands. All of our 5 brands because of our quality -- quality of sale tax [ quality of fair tax ] where we also call back Bacardi for so many years, and we are known for good quality IMFA, with our 5 brands have done very well, and we are among the top sellers to para-military.
Now the good news is, again, the tender came and we have been able to add 2 more brands, and we will be able to take the volumes up. But mind you, this para-military is a limited business. It is not CSD. CSD is Army, while this is para-military forces. There is moratorium in CSD till 30th of June. And we are quite prepared to call -- and there are certain restrictions as you would know -- since you're asking Potable IMFL question, there are certain restrictions on quantity achievements before we introduce brands into CSD. We have been able to do so on 2 of our brands and that we will apply.
Now as far as -- see, it is very easy to increase the geography as far as IMFL is concerned. But our top management has taken a conscious decision to go a steady build an asset and also improvement in margins. So at the moment, we have introduced -- we have made Delhi successful, para-military; and Uttarakhand, of course, will blossom, if I may use the word, and UP will be steady, which is our second home state.
We are -- at least in the next 6 months or a year, we do not have any plans to add a new state. Instead, we have all the plan to introduce premium brands because it is very easy to start new states, but this kind of exposure that the working capital requirement is so high and open credit has to be given. So we don't want to lose business -- money in the business.
So as a strategy, or as a cautious step what we have done, we are not increasing in this year more states. Instead, we are bringing in 2 more new brands. And I'm glad to inform you, it is already signed and under production, we are tied up with AMRUT Distilleries. AMRUT distilleries, as you know, is a world-class single-malt company. And they have visited our unit, they know about us. Because of the Bacardi co-packing, and we have bought their brand called Maqintosh. AMRUT is not a listed company, so you may not be able to have access. But I can -- it is underway. Our excise approval has been given. We have got the license.
So Maqintosh whiskey which is a 35-year-old whiskey of the company, has been -- we will be making on royalty. Royalty of franchisee group. In other words, we will be making all the -- we will be investing in the working capital and also making all the profit and giving away a certain sets of royalty to AMRUT. AMRUT, this the first time AMRUT has tied up with another company and in view of our quality standards. So this is one step. Another is we are going to -- our amazing Vodka has been quite popular and successful in the last 3 years.
We are -- wherever we launch, we are among the top 3 vodkas, whether it is in Delhi, whether it is in UP, whether it is in Uttarakhand or any other state, we are among the top 3. We want to sustain and extend this success to another flavor. For obvious reasons, it is not in public domain, so I cannot give more details. But we have these 2 steps we are taking in IMFL. So we are quite poised.
Sir, just one last question in terms of investment in pipeline. So what are the current investments across the segments, which are currently underway? And what is the plan of capital expenditure for, say, FY '25 and FY '26?
For the current year, there are 2 major expansions which are going on. One is the increase in the capacity in Kashipur from 400 to 500 KLPD, which will be ethanol -- ethanol manufacturing. And for Gorakhpur, we are increasing the capacity from 110 to 280 KLPD. So these are 2 major capexes. And there are maybe some expenditure on [ MSU ] because I think there will be some expansions depending upon the market demand. So these 3 are the major expansions for '24, '25. After that, we are not planning for any major capexes in '25, '26, except the maintenance capexes, which will be ranging from INR 40 crores to INR 50 crores.
Just to add there. I think based on how some of our new chemical businesses opportunity built up, as I've mentioned earlier. We may be looking at some incremental capexes, but it is not something that we are fond of right now.
We have a follow-up question from Shuk Jain from Emerge Capital.
A couple of my questions have already been answered. Just one question. Can you please give some color on our debt profile and how we plan to reduce it and over what period of time?
Currently, our debt position is about INR 900 crores, improving bcp maybe which we have taken [indiscernible]. So this year, the total repayment is about INR 350 crores, for which we have already made some prepayments amounting to almost [ INR 100 crores ]. And we are also planning to make some of the prepayments out of the better cash flow. So this is what is the planning. And as far as the new CapEx is concerned, since we are already through with the new capexes, so I don't foresee any major term loan rating from the bank or from the market.
Okay, sir. And sir, what is our average rate of interest?
It is around 9%.
Our next question comes from Saket Kapoor from Kapoor & Co.
Firstly, Ashish Ji. [Foreign Language] closing balance -- closing net debt level [Foreign Language], when we will be repaying our debt, what should be the expected long-term loan level for the closing FY '24, '25?
'24, '25, yes?
Yes.
Saket, it will be around INR 650 crores or INR 625 crores to INR 650 crores.
Okay. So we have closing balance of INR 725 crores, which will go down to INR 650 crores?
Actually, I don't know from which sources you have seen that INR 725 crores. My TAT is around INR 900 crores as of now, which will come down to that INR 650 crores. That INR 725 crores is not included the EPD. I am talking about the amount including EPD.
Okay. Okay.
Which is the short advance which we are taking. Say about 9 years back. The entire [ EPD ] paid in the current year, '24/'25, which is about $17.8 million, and rest is the rupee loan. So the entire outstanding CX for the term loan will come down to about [ INR 650 crores ].
INR 650 crores from the current levels. And sir, when we look at the cash flow, we find -- we have spent around INR 553 crores for FY '24. So [Foreign Language]. Whereas and of the 2 years, that we have spent about INR 1,000 crores.
Actually, this year, we have capitalized all harbor projects, which had been completed that includes NSU, that includes the grain distillery, up to 300 KLPD to back to 400 KLPD, and one, the boiler. Apart from this, there are some, I will say, the miscellaneous capexes and one is the nicotine CapEx into the harbor. Tha major amount is coming from green 400 KLPD and MSU.
And for the Gorakhpur part, 180 is still left to be spent, it will be spent for this year.
180 is in pipeline, and this hopefully will be capitalized in the current year after completion.
Right. And sir, can you give me the feedstock also? Now with the expanded capacity, we will be 500 for Kashipur and 290 or 280 for Gorakhpur. So what percentage of this we have to depend on the grains and how much will be the molasses?
The 290 and 500 is totally on grain.
Okay. And these are the rice -- broken rice, which we are dependent, sir?
It is all broken rice. Okay. And that's [indiscernible].
I didn't get you, sir?
Yes, I think you were asking something. It was a last part I spoke over you. So I said go ahead and then I record it. [indiscernible].
Yes. Sir, is it the broken rice sales from the FCI, that is our feedstock? We are sourcing it from FCI only or from open market?
We have from time to time looked at both possibilities. FCI rice is currently not available. So Danish food grain is available depending upon what is the price, what is the availability. We look at those options. There is no hard and fast. And it is also a factor of how the government wants to make FCI rice available or not available, et cetera. But you can also look at right from the private market. And these green plant consequently just to add you. I think the government has a policy to diversify the feedstock for grain that we use for ethanol.
I think going forward, and we are in the process of evaluating price, et cetera, I see that significant part of grain may start also coming from corn as a feedstock. Most of these effects with some modifications can be used as corn as well. So as you see, most of the is now that is produced in the U.S. that is corn based. Actually, that also backing up in the [indiscernible].
Maize and corn are the same, sir? Hello? Yes. Sorry, sir, I interrupted. Maize and corn are the same feedstock?
Yes. Yes. They are same thing.
So just to conclude, availability of raw material is not an issue even with the expanded capacity?
Let us put it this way, that the government, if you look at various capitals and the policy, is very clear to continue to push to go for 20% blending, okay? And so far, if you look at the blending program from [indiscernible] whenever this was announced, there has been -- by and large, it has -- by and large, you got [ TAT ] to the percentage increases that we have planned.
In between, there have been hiccups. There are sometimes the FTA rise will be little et cetera, has been difficult. And we expect, as we have discussed before, that some of these hiccups will continue from time to time. But if you if you strategize, if you look at a longer time horizon, I think we see that we will continue to be able to, by and large, replace that capacity to supply to the oil blending companies because the government strategy is quite clear.
And the government also, when the prices have gone up, for example if you look at the grain prices that went up, I mentioned earlier that, to some extent, we saw softening of prices. But the government responding by supporting, to some extent, by keeping those prices. So we see, by and large, the business for biofuels in Potable, which are unless something drastic happens like a drought or something, to continue, and not only to continue but also to steadily increase in terms of percentage. It is very difficult to have a crystal ball and give an exact what exactly will happen, but that's how we see.
Right. And sir, for the last point for -- subject to ethanol is, for the allocation of supply. Can you give the revenue we have booked for this financial year? And the next balance, we know what the contracted value is? So how much have you -- yes.
I don't have the numbers completely ready with me. I'm not -- and we've not given a forecast either for the business or by segment. As I had mentioned earlier, by and large, so far, we are tracking with respect to allocation. If the oil blending companies don't pickup, ETR cetera, those kind of issues -- see, what could be potential hiccups or somewhat derailers. Derailers is a strong word. I think the raw material availability, to some extent, we saw some challenges. But by and large, we cope. Picking up our oil blending companies for various reasons, that could be a potential issue. But other than that, we see that, by and large, we've been tracking on allocation with respect to capital allocation.
Right, sir. And Raj, you mentioned about 400 to 500 tonnes per month to be the dispatches for the MSU. Can you also provide some numerical number to it, what would be the run rate?
See, I don't call it a projection, I will say that, give or take, depends on how it goes. I think we -- and I'm not talking only about products produced from this specific asset, I'm talking about various new value-added products. We are expecting, and don't take this as our projection, is that something like -- in the financial year, something like INR 200 crores comes from your new value-added products is something that we are targeting. As I mentioned with the disclaimer, it's not a projection that I'm [indiscernible].
And hopefully, depending upon how some of our collaborative projects work out, there may be a little bit of slowdown happening. There may be escalations happening. As I said, it is not -- it is a business which is different from [indiscernible] or petrochemical, this is a business that we have to be with your partners, [indiscernible] based on products.
Right. Sir, our...
I'm sorry to interrupt you, sir. Could you please come back in the queue for more questions. Next question comes from Amit [indiscernible] from Emkay Global.
I wanted to ask what will be the peak revenue potential for the company on current gross growth? Hello, am I audible?
Yes, you're audible, sir.
Actually, your question is not very clear to us. You are talking about for the which division? This is basically for the chemical, liquor or [indiscernible]?
Chemical and liquor separately?
Pardon?
Chemical and liquor separately.
Chemical and liquor separate. I think we are already looking [indiscernible] for liquor, yes, we are already about 100% capacity. And for country liquor in Uttarakhand or country liquor in UP, we are already on 100% capacity utilization. And for chemical, I think that can answer.
Yes, we have significant headroom in some of our big chemicals, like Glycols, Glycol Ethers, Ether Acetates to [indiscernible], et cetera. And as of recent, based on how some of our new value-added products and speciality chemical projects develop, we will be adding capacities incrementally to take care.
It is very difficult right now for me to give you a peak revenue potential on current asset base for the healthy -- because it is a function of the product mix. I've already given you indications in terms of what we are targeting. And in fact, the fact that over and above this, this is going to be doing incremental investments.
Our next question comes from [ Pradeep Rawat ] from [ Yogiya ] Capital.
So my first question is regarding the biofuel. So how much of the biofuel do we internally use and how much of it is sold in the market or to the government?
So sir, we do not lose any biofuel internally. Let me share with you slightly. It will help you to understand our business. So we have 3 potential sources of ethanol. One, imported ethanol which [indiscernible] from U.S. or Brazil. If it comes from U.S., it is cost base. If it comes from Brazil, it has sugarcane base.
The second source is manufacturer of ethanol from molasses. The third source is manufacturer of ethanol from grain. And the fourth source is either of these 2 sources, purchased domestically. None of the imported ethanol can be used Potable Spirits or those [indiscernible].
This Ethanol is then converted to various different things. It is converted to extra-neutral alcohol if it is to be used in beverages, which can find ways for our bottling, for example, for Bacardi or our IMFL brand or our country liquor brand. But in that case, ethanol is converted to ENA, extra-neutral alcohol. If this alcohol which we sold as pipeline, it is converted to, whatever, 99.9% ethanol because you can't have moisture in the blend, and that is a different technology. Taking it now from 96% to 99.9% is not displacing, it has been done differently. Because it forms a sanction [indiscernible] difficult to set it.
This -- which is dried up to this extent,is supplied to biofuel. So it is not that we consume biofuel. We have different sourced of ethanol. All sources cannot go into all different applications. Some of the ethanol, which is either from molasses or some grains, which we produce -- we don't buy and sell molasses, and we convert it into [indiscernible] by griding it up to 99.9%, and therefore, that goes into biofuel. And we have a complex set of sum, which we do based on what is the best state for us. And therefore, it is difficult to give you an exact number. If we have time, subsequently, we can explain with you.
The reason I'm saying this is, for example, if -- like it happened last year, the imported ethanol became very expensive, it makes sense for us to divert significant amount of our manufactured ethanol for chemical intermediates. But now that imported ethanol has come down and we have shifted largely, except for certain chemicals which require malasses with ethanol to using imported ethanol for chemicals. So this is a state of activity we still keep doing. I don't have one single number that I can tell you as a percentage. But if you do on more details, we'll be happy to explain if you will detail as well.
Okay. Okay. So can you provide a number, like how much liter of ethanol do we use internally?
Yes, we can provide a number, ballpark. So this -- like for chemical, around 30 lakh liters is being consumed for our own purpose and for 50 lakh liters for the [indiscernible].
And there is the Potable Spirits. On Potable Spirits, it is around 15 lakh liters per month. And remaining, that we manufactured, which is left over, is supplied to biofuels -- sorry, I may have made a like this communication. The consumption that he is talking about, currently for chemicals, and that's the complexity i explained to you, currently is coming from imported.
Okay. So 50 lakh liter is used for chemical and the other 50 lakh is used for?
Can I request you one thing? Mr. Manish will be more than happy to explain this in slightly more detail to you if you connect with him.
So all the numbers and how -- it's actually a complex set of planning. Honestly, really not on my fixed right now. Very difficult.
Yes, yes. Okay.
But happy to explain it. It's something that can be explained.
Due to time constraints, we won't be able to take more questions. Now I hand over the floor to Mr. Rupark for closing comments.
So thank you for giving us the attention, for coming to our call in a busy day when you have got a number of calls to attend, asking us number of questions, testing our knowledge of our own business itself. I'm sure -- I hope I gave you reasonable replies to most of the questions. And I'm conscious that some of you need some more details from my colleague, Anand as well as Manish, we'll be happy to take them on later on. Otherwise, that's all from my side. Thank you. A very good evening to all of you, and have a good evening.
Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes your conference for today. Thank you for your participation and for using Door Sabha's conference call service. You may all disconnect your lines now. Thank you, and have a pleasant day.