Vodafone Idea Ltd
NSE:IDEA
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Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. This is Nirav, the moderator for your conference call. Welcome to the Vodafone Idea Limited conference. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. We have with us today, Mr. Akshaya Moondra, CEO of Vodafone Idea Limited; and Mr. Murthy GVAS, CFO of Vodafone Idea Limited, along with the other key members of the senior management on this call.
I want to thank the management team on behalf of all the participants for taking valuable time to be with us. Given that the senior management is on this conference call, participants are requested to focus to key and strategic important questions to make sure that we make good use of the senior management's time.
I must remind you that the discussion on today's call may include certain forward-looking statements and must be viewed, therefore, in conjunction with the risk that the company faces.
With this, I now hand the conference call over to Mr. Akshaya Moondra. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Nirav. A warm welcome to all participants to this earnings call. Yesterday, our Board of Directors adopted the unaudited results for the quarter ending December 31, 2022. All the results related documents are available on the website, and I hope you had a chance to go through the same.
Firstly, I'm happy to share that in the Board meeting yesterday, our Board has appointed Mr. Murthy GVAS as Interim CFO of the company. After a brief update on our strategic initiatives, along with key highlights during the quarter, I will hand over to Murthy to share details on the company's financial performance.
First of all, let me talk about the issue of equity to government towards interest related to deferred AGR and spectrum dues. In line with the reforms and support package for telecom sector communicated by government on September 15, 2021, we adopted for the upfront conversion of interest arising due to deferment of spectrum installments and AGR dues into equity.
On February 3, 2023, Ministry of Communications passed an order directing the company to convert the NPV of the interest related to deferment of spectrum auction installments and AGR dues into equity shares to be issued to the Government of India.
The total amount to be converted into equity shares was INR 161.33 billion. The process of issue of these shares to Government of India has since been completed. This conversion reaffirms government's commitment to implement the telecom reform package and to maintain healthy competition in the sector with key private players.
Additionally, we have issued warrants to one of the Vodafone Group entities in July 2022, when they had invested INR 4.4 billion into the company. Pursuant to exercise of auction attached to the warrants, we have issued 427.7 million equity shares at an issue price of INR 10.2 per share.
With these equity issuances, the promoter shareholding now stands at 50.4% and Government of India shareholding at 33.1%. On the fundraising, the shareholder resolution approving the preferential issue of OCDs to American Tower Company India, one of the largest infrastructure service provider for the company had lapsed as the allotment of OCDs could not be completed within the prescribed period of 15 days from the date of passing of the shareholders' resolution.
Fresh approval has been given by the Board for issue of OCDs amounting to INR 16 billion, subject to approval of the shareholders, for which the AGM is scheduled for February 25. These funds will be mainly used to pay amounts owed to ATC India under the master lease agreements, and to the extent of remainder, for general corporate purposes.
The engagement, cooperation and support through this transaction reflects ATC India's underlying confidence in the company and its plans. Both parties remain committed to develop a top quality nationwide 4G and 5G network as well as contribute towards India's digital transformation.
Now moving on to our strategic initiatives. The first priority area for us remains focused investment approach. We continue to follow a focused approach to investments biased towards our 17 priority circles, which contribute over 98% of our revenues. Over the last several quarters, our network investments have been impacted on account of liquidity constraints.
We, however, continue to reform our 3G spectrum to 4G, and have closed around 2,800 3G sites during the quarter, while we added around 2,000 4G sites. Even though our overall broadband site count has remained flattish compared to last quarter, our broadband coverage as well as capacity has expanded.
We continue to offer superior customer experience as reflected in our consistent top ranking in several league tables across data and voice. We are the fastest 4G network in India as per independent third-party reports, and we have the highest rated voice quality in the country as per TRAI's MyCall App data for 23 out of the 26 months between November 2020 and December 2022.
We have the advantage of having latest 4G equipment and technologies, which are capable of upgrading to 5G. 5G rollout has been considered as part of our overall CapEx plan, and we continue to work towards rolling out 5G for our consumers, which can be executed quickly once funding is in place. In the meantime, we have live 5G clusters in Delhi and Pune, where we have partnered with various OEMs to test compatibility of available 5G handsets.
Further, we are in advanced stages of discussion with various network vendors for finalization of our 5G rollout strategy.
Moving on to the next pillar of market initiatives. Our unified brand Vi continues to garner good reception, building brand affinity across all customer segments in the country. In a country which is passionate about cricket, we engage with users through Vi 20 FANfest on social media and stayed one buzziest brands of the World Cup this season.
Vi 12 days of Christmas contest was done to engage with users on social media during Christmas. Our relentless pursuit on the marketing front is clearly visible with our top rankings at the SAMMIES 2022, where we won the best social media brand in telecom and the best use of video for #LookUp this Diwali.
During the current financial year, we have taken tariff interventions in postpaid as well as prepaid categories including entry-level plans. We continue to focus on getting more customers on 4G/unlimited plans for further ARPU improvements.
We have seen ARPU growth for 6 consecutive quarters now. Q3 FY '23 ARPU stands at INR 135 compared to INR 115 in Q3 FY '22, a growth of 17.4% year-on-year.
Moving on to the Business Services. Business Services or Enterprise segment is one of our strength areas going to our long-standing relationships with our customers as well as our ability to leverage the learnings from Vodafone Group in various global markets. We continue to make progress in line with our stated strategy of transformation from Telco to Techco. Our planned expansion of services beyond connectivity has seen good traction, and we continue to work with multiple partners to make our offerings more relevant to enterprise customers. In our endeavor to partner with enterprises in the fast-evolving digital era, Vi Business has launched Vi Secure in collaboration with global technology leaders.
Vi Secure as a comprehensive cyber security portfolio with a range of reliable solutions that offers protection against multiple threats arising from network, cloud and end points, enabling businesses to achieve their digital objectives in a secure manner.
On IoT, we continue to maintain our strong position with innovative solutions for large enterprises as well as for small businesses. We are the leader in Smart Utility as per [indiscernible] data for Q2 FY '23. We are currently working with over 25 power distribution companies, powering 2 out of every 3 smart meters in India.
We aim to strengthen the government's Digital India mission and transform the country's power distribution sector through our IoT solutions. In line with our strategy towards innovation and IoT, we have recently showcased our industry-first IoT lab to test and certify IoT devices.
Our IoT lab has been built in partnership with C-DoT with an aim to simplify IoT solutions deployment and bring standardization and interoperability among IoT devices and applications as per 1 M2M standard in the country.
As part of our strategy to transform from a Telco to a Techco, we continue to build our cloud portfolio, we are working on our cloud strategy through a combination of our own assets and strategic partnerships in order to accelerate digital transformation for enterprises.
We continue to support SMEs and MSMEs and digital adoption, transforming their businesses and making them future-ready with our Ready for Next program. Since its launch Ready for Next have been assessing the digital needs of several thousand MSMEs in India, offering them the right set of solutions for their digital journey.
Vi Business was recognized for best innovation and creativity in B2B marketing for Ready for Next at the Mint Marketing Awards 2022.
In the growing hybrid working scenario, Vi Business Plus Mobility Bundling solutions are enabling today's mobile workforce to connect, communicate, collaborate and do a lot more with their postpaid plans. Bundled with benefits such as data pooling, mobile security, location tracking and entertainment, Vi Business Plus provide superior customer experience with seamless and uninterrupted high-speed data.
Vi Business is also an active participant in the fixed data connectivity business and continues to enjoy the confidence of some of the largest multinational and Indian organizations to connect their offices and various locations through its suit of ILL and MPLS or GMPLS solutions. Vi Business is also doing pioneering work in the space of private networks. Through our active and deep engagement with a large customer base, we aim to participate in building the private networks infra in the country in a relevant manner basis customer needs.
At CIO Choice 2023, Vi Business has been chosen as the preferred partner of choice for SIP Trunk, for Telecom Carrier Mobile Access, for Managed Mobility Services, for Cloud Telephony and Telecom Carrier International access on the basis of an extensive pan-India CIO referral voting process that spans across industry verticals.
The next strategic initiative is driving partnerships and digital revenue streams. We are aggressively executing our digital strategy through partnerships in our continuing journey of being a truly integrated digital services provider. Over the last several months, we have significantly expanded our digital portfolio with the addition of music, videos, gaming, jobs, education and digital advertising, and we continue to add various features to our offerings.
We are seeing strong growth on the music and Vi Movies and TV users on our platforms in the last quarter, with both showing strong growth sequentially. This is on the back of various curated content and events we created for our users.
In order to drive deeper engagement on music, we have live music concerts for our consumers on Vi App, wherein renowned bands and artists like Indian Ocean, Sunidhi Chauhan, Euphoria, Sara Gurpal and Mame Khan had performed. We continue to explore such relevant entertainment experiences for our users.
On the video front, our strategy has been to provide curated premium content to our consumers. We continue to build partnerships with content producers to be able to deliver an enriching experience to our users. We have added multiple new partners in the past quarter to build on our content repository.
As we speak, we are, for the first time, showing live T20 international league cricket on Vi App to our users on the back of a partnership with Zee. We have seen highest growth on our video consumers in the past quarter.
One of our endeavor on digital is to read the emerging trends and build relevant propositions to be able to drive meaningful engagement and create opportunities for better monetization. Snackable content, as you all know, has been in huge demand, which is shorts or reels that consumers can consume on-the-go in a very little time.
We have recently launched a new channel BYTES on Vi App in partnership with NDTV to provide quick bytes of trending news and stories across sports, films and lifestyle. As you would be aware, we had enhanced our gaming proposition with the launch of multiplayer games.
On that front also, we continue to see strong growth. Overall, we've seen a considerable jump in overall minutes of engagement across video, music and gaming in Q3 versus Q2. Our own Ad-tech platform, Vi Ads is helping us drive the monetization of our digital assets, as we continue to scale our footprint and are now able to drive good demand.
Vi Ads is now in panel with almost all the top media agencies, and we are part of the media plan for some of the big brands in the country. While we continue to drive demand from the large agencies and the big brands, our focus in the coming quarters is going to be on building a strong GTM for leveraging the smaller and emerging brands demand. That is where we believe the Vi Ads will deliver tremendous value.
We will continue to have a disproportionate focus to build a digital ecosystem with our partners, enabling a differentiated experience for Vi users, which will help us to drive customer stickiness as well as provide incremental monetization opportunities.
Moving on to the other highlights for the quarter. We continue to register improving 4G subscriber base for 6th quarter in a row with 1 million 4G customers added in Q3. The 4G base now stands at 121.6 million. However, the overall subscriber base declined to 228.6 million versus 234.4 million in Q2 FY '23.
Despite the subscriber loss, we registered the 6th quarter of sequential growth with revenue for the quarter growing 0.1% quarter-on-quarter and which now stands at INR 106.2 billion.
ARPU improved to INR 135 versus INR 131 in Q2 FY '23. On a year-on-year basis, ARPU witnessed a strong growth of 17.4%, aided by tariff hikes and subscriber upgrades.
The overall data volumes were up 0.8% quarter-on-quarter, while on a year-on-year basis, the growth was 9.9%. We continue to see the increase in data usage for broadband customer, which now stands at about 15.1 GB per month. We have also seen an increase in voice minutes per sub by 2.4% quarter-on-quarter.
With that, I hand over to Murthy, who will share the financial highlights for the quarter.
Thank you, Akshaya. A warm welcome to each of you. On the quarterly performance, revenue for the quarter has improved marginally compared to last quarter, thus registering a sequential growth in revenue for the past 6 quarters.
On a year-on-year basis, the revenue for the quarter grew 9.3%. EBITDA for the quarter, excluding Ind AS 116 impact is INR 20 billion as compared to INR 21.2 billion for quarter 2 FY '23. This is primarily due to a higher charge-off on account of customer acquisition costs and higher network expenses, which was partially offset by the full quarter savings in spectrum usage charges versus a partial impact of Q2. As the rate reduction due to the spectrum 1 in auction was applicable through August 17, 2022.
The customer acquisition cost incurred a bit flattish quarter-on-quarter, but a higher charge is on account of lower net deferment compared to the last quarter, which is primarily on account of change in the license subscribers.
Excluding the impact of 116, the depreciation and amortization expenses and net finance cost for the quarter stand at INR 43.2 billion and INR 53.9 billion, respectively. The reported Ind AS depreciation and amortization expenses and net finance cost for the quarter stand at INR 58.9 billion and INR 62.8 billion, respectively.
The CapEx spend for the quarter stands at INR 7.5 billion and the CapEx for the 9 months stands at INR 28 billion. The gross debt, excluding these liabilities and including interest due, but -- including interest accrued but not due as of December 31, '22, stands at INR 2,228.9 billion, comprising of deferred spectrum payment obligations of INR 1,398 billion and the AGR liability of INR 699.1 billion that are due to the government.
The debt to the banks and financial institutions of INR 131.9 billion. As the cash and cash equivalents are INR 1.6 billion, the net debt stands at INR 2,227.3 billion.
As we opted for development of spectrum in area used for the period 4 years in line with the telephony package, the first payment was spectrum on the moratorium will start from October 2025 and AGR to March '26.
As mentioned by Akshaya, the interest related to the deferment of spectrum and AGR installments has been converted to equity by issuing shares to the Government of India on 7 February 2023. The accounting on this will be considered in quarter 4.
With this, I hand over the call back to Nirav, and open the floor for questions.
[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Vivekanand Subbaraman from AMBIT Capital.
I have 2 questions. So Murthy, could you tell us the net debt of the company after the government decides to exercise this? And also the impact on the receivables that you have reported now after ATC converts, could you help us with this?
And the related point is, could you help us with the spectrum payments, the annual spectrum and AGR payments from October 2025 to September '26? That's question one.
Secondly, I see that in the notes to accounts you've mentioned 2 numbers, one is an INR 8,000 crores-odd number, which is the debt that is due to banks out of the INR 13,000 crores bank loans. So could you tell us what is the status of the discussions you are having with banks? And by when can we expect some of this loan -- or some of the loans that are due for payment to get converted into long-term loans?
Yes. So Vivekanand, your first question is with regard to the conversion of government equity. And once that happens then in that case, yes, as compared to the amount that we show on the balance sheet, there will be initial reduction. Thereafter, we made up as the [indiscernible] period completes.
On the -- on your second question, which is essentially...
So on the ATC transaction, I'll answer that. Just to be clear, I think very clearly, this is a reduction of INR 16,000 crores roughly from the debt which has been converted to equity. So from a balance sheet perspective, this should result in reflect reduction of debt. However, what is the final accounting presentation, we'll have to discuss with auditors and decide. So we'll have to see. But as of today, with the conversion in reality, the debt stands reduced by about INR 16,000 crores.
On the question of receivables or let's say, payables from our point of view to ATC, once ATC is subscribing to the OCDs post the shareholders' approval, the payables to ATC will reduce by INR 1,600 crores, and they will get converted to a financial creditor status as the subscriber to the OCD.
Your next question was relating to the dues to DoT post the moratorium period, in the period October '25 to September '26. So I think generally, on the AGR front, and I'm giving you these figures because AGR the final figures have to be communicated to us by DoT, but based on our calculations, it will be about INR 9,100 crores of regular installment and about INR 7,400 crores of installment, which is arising out of the deferment.
As far as the spectrum installments are concerned, it will be about INR 14,800 crores for the original installment and about INR 10,000 crores for the new installment stream, which is arising out of the deferment. I was not very clear about your last question, so if you could repeat that relating to the bank debt.
Sure. On the bank debt, you mentioned that there's INR 13,200 crores of bank debt, but you also mentioned in the notes that around INR 8,000 crore is payable in the next 1 year. So could you help us get -- I mean what's the update on the discussions you've been having with banks on the deferment of some of this bank loan that is due in the next 12 months?
So firstly, I think we have to delink the existing debt and servicing of that debt from the new funding. The new funding is for investments. The existing debt, which is there, it will not be deferred. It will continue to be repaid on maturity.
So I think that is the first part. Since we have also touched upon the question of funding, let me answer it at this point only. So as we have been mentioning earlier also, that we have been engaged with the banks post the reform package was announced. We have made progress with them. But at some point of time, the discussions could not progress further because the bank's requirement was that the government conversion has to happen first. And only once that has happened, then we can engage further.
So let's say, we have had constructive discussions with our consortium of bankers in the last couple of months. And with the government conversion now having happened, those discussions can progress further because the basic condition of government conversion has been fulfilled. We have already started engaging with them and the discussions are progressing as we speak.
Sure. I have a couple of follow-ups. So the first one was on the currently accounted net debt. If I understand correctly, some of the deferred -- the interest on the deferment was accounted for as an additional -- I mean the net debt used to keep going up every quarter as the government had not yet taken the deferment of -- the deferment amount as equity, right? So I'm looking for a number to understand with respect to what the net debt will be after the government is allotted shares. I mean it has been allotted shares, right? You've reported...
Yes. Yes. The shares have been allotted. It is reflecting in the stock exchange. Yes.
Correct. So should it be just the INR 16,000 crore lower net debt or am I missing something?
No. No. So it should be INR 16,000 crores lower. How it will represent in the balance sheet is something I cannot answer definitely. But effectively, it is INR 16,000 crore, which stands reduced from the debt because that presents -- represents the PV of the future debt. You can call it future debt or installment because -- I mean, I think the easier way to understand this is that calling it that we are allowed to convert an interest is a means of deriving an amount which could be converted.
In essence, what this means is that a PV of future installments has been converted, and so the installments stand reduced to the extent of conversion, which has happened. So effectively, as on date, the debt on the balance sheet should reduce by INR 16,000 crore. That is, let's say, the commercial impact. And as I said, the accounting presentation, we'll know when we declare the next quarter results.
Sure. And the last follow-up question is on the numbers you mentioned for the payments that you will need to make once the moratorium is lifted. So you mentioned 4 numbers: INR 9,100 crores, INR 7,400 crores, these 2 for AGR, regular installment and deferment, then spectrum, original installment and deferment. So all these put together are INR 41,300 crores. Did I get this correct?
Yes. I mean I've not totaled them up, but that should be correct.
Next question is from the line of Sanjesh Jain from ICICI Securities.
A couple of questions from my side. First on this tariff hike or tariff intervention, Akshaya you mentioned in the opening remarks, can you elaborate on how the tax, the key pathway we have taken a tariff hike and what are the quantum?
Sorry, Sanjesh, your audio is not very clear. Can you please repeat the question?
Can you hear me now?
We can hear you, but the audio is not very clear. Please go again.
Okay. My question was related to the tariff intervention. Can you elaborate on the tariff intervention both in the prepaid category and postpaid category that we have taken now?
No, no. I think what I was alluding to in my opening remarks is that our revenue or the ARPU has increased 17.4% year-on-year. And the basis of that is, of course, the change in subscriber mix, accompanied by the tariff interventions that have happened over a period of time. I was not referring to a particular event. But as you would recall that in December last year, we had increased the tariffs.
We have been increasing our entry level plans were somewhere at INR 79, they were increased to INR 99, then there was a further intervention where the offering on the INR 99 plan was revised in the end of June.
There have been some interventions which have been done on the IoT front. There have been some interventions, which have been done on the postpaid front. So I was basically referring to the multiple interventions, which have happened over the last year or so.
Got it. Got it. No, I was more interested because one of our peer has taken a minimum tariff hike from INR 99 to INR 155. While we are still at INR 99, any thoughts there? How are we looking at -- are we monitoring the data? How should one read that?
So firstly, I would not call it a tariff hike. It is basically taking away a particular product, which increases the entry level price for any subscriber who wants to subscribe to their services. It is not a tariff hike in that sense, so just wanted to have that clarity for everyone.
In terms of our thinking on this, I think we have 2 -- Firstly, we are evaluating this. And as you are also aware, this was earlier done in 2 markets where we have some trends available. And in the remaining markets, it has just been done. So there is no data available as to say what is the impact.
In the first on where this was done in 2 circles in one of the markets where we have a significant presence. We have seen different and improved trends in that market in our subscriber trends relative to the rest of the market. So there has been a benefit to us in terms of the overall movement of subscribers. These are early signs. So we continue to watch this space. And we would take a decision as to based on whatever is best for our situation and our customers.
Got it. Got it. Second question is on the subscriber decline. 6 million subscribe decline...
Sanjesh, we are not able to hear you at all. So if you are a place where there is disturbance, I think you'll have to find some solution to that. There's too much of disturbance...
I'm actually traveling. Let me call back. Let me come back in the queue.
Next question is from the line of Vibhor Singhal from Nuvama Wealth.
Just basically, I wanted to dwell a bit further on Vivek's question. So if I understand it correctly, the INR 16,100 crores is the net present value of the interest that was -- that has been deferred for the 4 years period provided by the government at September 2021 reforms.
So if I understand it correctly, part of that interest would already have accrued and probably be -- would already be sitting on our balance sheet. But the remaining part, let's say, for the 2.5 years of interest would not be there on our balance sheet.
So if I understand it correct that out of the INR 16,100 crores, there would be some part, let's say, I mean, 35%, 40%, whatever, that debt would be there in the balance sheet as of now, which would basically get knocked off because of the equity issuance. And the remaining interest will be accrued over the next 2.5 years, and that will basically get removed from the -- basically, the amount that has been issued to the government?
Okay. Let's say the simpler way to understand this is, firstly, this value of INR 16,100 is the PV as on 10th of January, which was the date when we had exercised the option.
Now I think, as I said earlier, INR 16,100 crore to say interest is a means of calculating. If you were to look at it simply, if this conversion had not happened, the debt, which was there on our balance sheet would have continued to accrue interest on a regular basis. And after the moratorium, we would have been paying installments at a certain rate.
As of 10th January 2022, this debt stands reduced by INR 16,000 crores, although the conversion is happening now, so the impact of that will given now. And in effect, what is happening is that to the extent of the installments that have been deferred, the principal value of these installments will remain the same after a period of 4 years roughly.
And that is, in essence, what has happened is that because the interest is converted while this will continue to accrue interest, but in effect, the installments would be calculated as if the principle is the same as on 10th January as after the moratorium. So simply stated, the way to understand this is that you forget whether this is interest or not.
As on 10th January 2022, INR 16,000 crores of debt has been converted and assuming the conversion had happened on that date with that reduced debt, the interest accrual will continue to happen on the rest of the amount.
If your question is specifically that is part of this interest accrual, already reflected in our balance sheet. So it is right that from 10th January, which is the PV debt calculation of last year till 31st December, the interest accrual is already reflecting in our balance sheet.
Got it. Yes, sure. I think that was the clarification that I was looking for. Also just to dwell a bit further on, you mentioned the 4 items, those will be due once the moratorium period ends, the total of this comes out to INR 41,300 crores.
So that given -- what -- even if let's say, by then, we are able to take this entire site and there is a growth in ARPU that appears to be, I mean, a significantly high number given whatever the cash flows that we are currently generating and probably likely to improve in the next 2 to 2.5 years as well.
So let's say, for example, we are looking at an at an investor this point of time. Would our strategy be to prepay some of these liabilities so that our annual payment liabilities reduce to an extent to be able to match the cash flows? What is the thought process that we are just doing around at this point of time regarding those specific liabilities come due in FY '26?
No. No. So really speaking, whether I prepay or I pay later ultimately, it doesn't change my liquidity profile. I think we have no intention to prepay anything out of this because we would want to use whatever liquidity is available with us to make the investments.
So I think there's no question of prepayment. Just for the sake of completeness, I would say that there are installments, which were INR 14,800 crores of the regular installment. What I did not include there was about INR 1,700 crores of the 5G spectrum installment, which will get added on to that, so that INR 14,800 crores would actually become INR 16,500 crores, which is the regular installment unrelated to the reforms package and INR 9,100 crores roughly of the AGR is again an installment, which is independent of the reforms package.
The other 2 installments of INR 10,000 crores on spectrum and INR 7,400 crores of AGR or INR 17,400 crores and all is a deferred amount out of the reforms package. As you would have seen that the reforms package also provides that these installments can be converted to equity, and that judgment can be made for each and every installment independently, post the moratorium period.
So one -- when one looks at these installments, these are to be seen a little differently. One is the regular stream of installment, sickens the installment arising out of the deployment, which are governed by the reform package, and they may have a somewhat different implication going forward.
Nirav, you can continue. I think we have finished with this question. Nirav, can you hear us?
Sir, can you hear me?
Yes. Yes. We can.
The next question is from the line of Kunal Vora from BNP Paribas.
My first question is on 5G. What proportion of your customers are currently using 5G devices? And have you seen any change in the churn in those customers? And also, how -- do you see any risk as competition ramps up 5G coverage by end of '23?
Kunal, thanks for the question. I think the specific data on 5G or what is happening on the 5G churn, I think we are not giving that. But what I can say is that we are in early stages of the 5G deployment, and there is no change in the overall trends that we see in terms of the subscriber movement in different categories.
We continue to watch this space, and it is important. 5G is an important development. In terms of -- as I mentioned in my opening remarks, 5G is a part of our plan. It is clear that we will be starting a little late compared to the competition. But I believe that 5G is evolving. Also, we believe that while 5G offers much better speeds, really speaking from a consumer perspective, that speed differential, if you measure on a speed test, it is visible.
If you just try to see your experience, it is not very different. So it will happen at a pace. It will also require some ubiquitous coverage on 5G. So our effort will be that as soon as funding is in place, we kind of expedite our rollout to have a presence in the geographies, which matter particularly in the context of 5G. And so that we are able to compete as early as possible.
The second question is on postpaid. Your subscriber base seems to have increased. We've seen proportion moving up from about 8% of customers to almost like 9.6%. What's driving this? Is it M2M or is it enterprise customers? Or where are you seeing the postpaid growth?
Okay. So I think the growth is a significant change maybe happening primarily from the M2M segment. The rest of the postpaid segment is fairly stable. The consumer postpaid segment is stable.
Okay. And on churn level, like 4.4% annualized churn of more than 50%, this is resulting in large SG&A cost. Has the industry taken any steps to control this? Any development on this? When do we expect this to normalize?
So I think one is that an industry thing. So everybody in the industry has to do it. But I can tell you that we have taken -- there are 2 parts to this, if I were to take some time to explain this.
One is that if you make an analysis, you'll find that there's a lot of rotational churn, which is happening. So that is why industry sees such a large number of gross adds but the net add level is much lower than the gross add level. So it is very clear that this is -- a large part of it is rotational churn. And what you are saying is right that the industry needs to address it. We continue to make those efforts, but what we have started analyzing at our end is that which are the loss-making subscribers or if there is a channel which is largely contributing a poor quality of subscribers.
And we have started making interventions to see that if it is possible to identify [indiscernible] issue where you know that a particular source of acquisition or a particular subscriber is going to be a loss-making subscriber. How can we eliminate the loss on that kind of acquisition? So we have started taking those actions.
I'm hopeful that everybody will take these kind of actions because ultimately, it is a loss to the industry, especially at a time when everybody is not doing well financially, I mean, there may be different in some level. But today, nobody is covering their cost of capital. And in that situation to just throw away money for this rotational churn doesn't make sense. So I can assure you that we will continue to do our best to address this, and we will continue to drive and work along with industry players to get some sense of discipline where money is used for acquiring customers and not to generate rotational churn.
So when have you taken this action? And any early results which you're seeing?
I will not be able to give you too many details, but let's say, we have started making these interventions somewhere in December. We have seen some improvements, but I think what effect or impact it is having on quality, it takes some time to figure out.
So generally, you take interventions based on historical data, but whether they are -- what results they are leading, it will take some time to see what is the result. But believe -- we believe that the basis we have taken the actions, we should see positive results coming out of that.
Sure. And just a final question. Any thoughts on tariff hike? When can we expect it and what's stopping it?
So I think tariff hikes, firstly, as I think all of us have been saying that tariffs hikes are required because the current level of tariffs do not enable anybody to recover their cost of capital. Having said that, I cannot right now comment on what would be the timing of the price increase.
But my personal view is that the price increase is required, but it needs to happen more at the unlimited plan kind of segment where what we have seen is that over a period of time, the basic premise of you pay more for using more. Of course, within a range, it could be limited. But today, we have a very wide range of usage where the customer pays the same independent of the level of usage.
And I think gradually, as happens with all industries, all services, whether you use electricity, water or anything, which are, again, in the nature of essential services, there's a base charge, then there's a charge which is based on usage. Your per unit usage cost reduces as you consume more. Sometimes, of course, there's a penal rate also as in case of electricity, but let's say, that's not the concept here.
But definitely, I think the current structure of pricing needs to evolve over a period of time in some form, where at the higher-end people start paying more for using more and not that everybody pays more even though they may be using less. So I say that, I believe in my personal opinions, the direction in which the industry should move and let's see how does it work.
Next question is from the line of Aditya Chandrasekar from UBS.
Just had a quick question on vendor payments. So I think payables to vendors like Indus, ATC, et cetera, have been building up. So just wanted to get a sense of how we're thinking about that. How are the talks with these vendors going on? And on an ongoing basis, what percentage of monthly billing are we able to pay? How is that likely to improve going ahead? Just some color on this will be helpful.
So Aditya, I think as far as ATC is concerned, you are aware of the transaction that we are doing with them and ATC has been supportive in the sense that they have agreed to convert their payable into an OCD instrument.
So really speaking, the ATC is being addressed to that true. The other largest vendor is Indus, which, of course, Indus have themselves made a number of disclosures in their financials, which you are aware of. We continue to constantly remain engaged within Indus.
I think we are working in the spirit of partnership and all our vendors, including Indus, have been very supportive to support us in this interim period of difficulty. It is very clear that we need to get funding to be able to make investments and improve our operational cash flows to be then able to improve our vendor payment situation.
So the way we look at this is that currently, we are prioritizing all payments, which are essential for the continuation of operations. And beyond that, as we get the funding and start incurring and making investments and as we see cash generation from operations going up, that would be the basis of our starting to clear the backlog, but our endeavor is that until we get to that point with the funding in place and the CapEx then not being dependent on operational cash flows, we can then start to gradually unwind the payables which have accumulated until now.
Got it. And secondly, just a quick one on the government side, I think there were some news reports that some license fee, et cetera, is also kind of getting accumulated. Just wanted to check, are we getting some pushback from them? And secondly, on the deployment -- 5G deployment requirements for the spectrum, is there any pushback from the government for that?
So I think as far as the license repayments are concerned, it is right that we have paid a lesser amount than the 100% amount. We are engaged with DoT. We have proposed a plan to them, and we are requesting for their support to allow us a slightly delayed payment in the interim.
So those discussions are on. We are engaged with DoT on that. On the 5G minimum rollout obligation, I think that is not a large investment, and that is something which we'll comply with.
Next question is from the line of Piyush from HSBC.
Couple of questions. Firstly, could you provide your kind of split of data, which is going through your network between 3G, 4G? And what is your peak kind of network capacity utilization levels now? The reason I'm asking is, I just want to understand a little bit more about your strategy around tariff hikes.
And given one of your peers have removed entry-level products and you have not done a similar strategy, does it mean Vi is unlikely to participate in tariff hikes because your capacity utilization is low and you would first like to improve your capacity utilization? Just some thoughts around these 2 questions will be great.
So I think let me just answer the question. We are not -- I don't think the capacity utilization or 3G, 4G traffic mix has anything to do with the tariff hike decision. As I clarified earlier, we should just be clear that this is not a situation of tariff hike. This is a situation of elimination of a particular entry-level product.
Now really speaking, whether you continue this product or not, this product does not offer data. And so it has nothing to do with what is the utilization. Broadly speaking, I can tell you that data currently runs almost entirely on the 4G network. We have, as I mentioned in my opening remarks, we have been closing down our 3G network. And the 3G networks are currently maintained only where there is a significant number of subscribers who are still using the 3G network or in places where we have 3G coverage, but we do not have a 4G coverage.
Otherwise, anywhere where we have 4G coverage and we have 3G sites, gradually, we are winding up. So really speaking, 2G can hardly carry any significant data and 3G is something which we are winding down. So no correlation between the traffic and the tariff-related decisions.
So -- but what needs to happen then for Vi to be confident to take another round of tariff hike? Because certainly, we need to improve ARPUs to improve our kind of operating cash flows, right? So what needs to be seen?
So I would say that we need to kind of make some investments, get to a better level of offering. That is one of the things, but I don't think that is the only trigger. And as I said that there are different dynamics at the entry-level pricing.
There are different dynamics at the high-level pricing. And as I expressed my personal view is that the pricing structure in terms of tariff hikes need not be that you're not -- you need to move to a regime where there is some semblance of paying more for using more rather than having a very large range of this being the same price.
And I cannot give you a timeline, but that is a direction we would want to move quickly. And we continue to evaluate as to what is the right time to do it. Entry-level pricing is a slightly different dynamic, and we have to kind of evaluate the situation, and we decide how to progress about it. We are watching the situation. So we've not kind of taken a firm decision on that front.
So you're saying in the 4G mass segment, where there is a good proposition to the consumer and there is an affordability, there is a higher probability of you kind of taking the tariff hike in that segment?
Let's say that is what I believe is the right thing to do for the industry as a whole.
Next question is from the line of Balaji from Bajaj Allianz.
So I basically have 2 questions like maybe to Akshaya and to the Murthy, sir. So what -- how much fund are you expecting? Because maybe currently, we have a lot of vendor payments to be done, 5G deployment? And do we expect any fund infusion from the promoter side also has there been a lot of hearing one of our companies in the stake in the Vodafone, in the Indus tower? Okay? That's the first part on the fund infusion. And the second part, do we -- are expecting any update on this AGR recalculation in the petition filed from the Supreme Court, okay? So these are the 2 questions, maybe if we can get more clarity on these 2 parts?
Okay. Thanks, Balaji, for the question. So I think I will not be able to give you the amount of funding. All that I can say is that we have shared the business plan with the banks, which includes the complete current situation of where we stand, and the funding required for us to gradually move to a regular vendor payment cycle and make the necessary investments.
So all that is a part of our plan. I cannot give you specific figures at this point of time. As far as the AGR is concerned, this is a matter, which is in the Supreme Court, we have a review petition on the matter of corrections to be made, and we are keeping our options open because definitely, we believe that if there are errors in or inaccuracies and calculation, at least those should be corrected, and we will continue to pursue that at a suitable time.
Okay. Just supporting, no question to the same, like, since we have a good amount of 2G users also. So what are we -- what is the plan in which we are proposing and encouraging them to get it converted to the 4G plans?
I think I would say there are not 2G plans and 4G plans. Basically, we are saying that there is a customer requirement, if your requirement is only incoming then you subscribed to entry-level plan. If your requirement is primarily voice, but a large quantum of voice, then you subscribe to what we popularly refer to as unlimited voice plans or ULD plans.
And if you need data along with unlimited voice, then you subscribe to what we refer to as ULD plans. So really speaking, devices and devices as more and more devices are coming excess for the feature phones, which can work only on 2G, every device can use data, and it is the customer's requirement. So you'll find a number of subscribers who may have 4G devices, but who may be only mainly using voice and not so much data. So I would just describe it as to look at as from what is the consumer need, devoid of the device itself, and we continue to address what the customer requires.
Okay. And since maybe we also received good support from the government also, so can we see Mr. Birla back to the Chairman position again?
I think that is a question which I cannot answer, and I'm not qualified to answer.
Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll take that as the last question. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Akshaya Moondra for closing comments.
Yes. Thanks, Nirav, and thanks to all the participants for joining this call, asking us the questions and giving us an opportunity to answer your queries. We have reported 6 quarters of sequential growth in several key metrics, including ARPU and 4G subscribers.
We remain focused on providing superior data and voice experience and are building a differentiated digital experience, adding several digital offerings in the recent months. We have issued equity shares to the government consequent to conversion of the interest related to deferment of AGR and spectrum dues.
The transaction with APC clearly reflects the relationship that the company shares with one of its key vendor and their belief and long-term prospect of the company. With these positive developments, we continue to remain engaged with our lenders for further debt fundraising as well as with other parties for equity or equity-like fundraising to make the required investments for network expansion and 5G rollout to compete effectively.
We have been improving our performance in the last 6 quarters with limited investments, and we are confident that with the investments coming on stream, we will be able to make more meaningful improvements in our overall performance.
Thank you once again for joining this call. Have a good evening.
Thank you very much. On behalf of Vodafone Idea Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.