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HPL Electric & Power Ltd
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Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the HPL Electric & Power Limited Q4 FY '23 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded.
I now hand the conference over to Mr. Gautam Seth Joint Managing Director and CFO of HPL Electric & Power Limited for opening remarks. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Yes. Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to HPL Electric & Power Limited's earnings call for the fiscal year 2023. As we reflect on the financial performance of FY '23, I'm pleased to share that HPL Electric & Power has showcased its commitment to delivering the committed performance to our stakeholders. This year has been marked by significant milestones and achievements. We have experienced robust growth in our revenue from operations with an increase of 25% to reach INR 1,262 crores compared to the previous fiscal year. This growth signifies our ability to seize market opportunities and capitalize on a strong position in the industry.
At HPL, we believe in empowering a vision that is environmentally conscious, technologically advanced and energy efficient. Our comprehensive portfolio of electrical solutions has positioned us as a trusted partner for utilities, businesses and communities across the country. Moreover, our focus on operational efficiency and cost optimization has yielded fruitful results. Our reported profit after tax has witnessed exceptional growth surging by a staggering 287% to reach INR 30 crores in FY '23. This achievement showcases the effectiveness of our strategies and initiatives in maximizing bottom line performance.
The reduction in inventory days by 38 days in FY '23 also reflects our focus on optimizing working capital management. By efficiently managing inventory levels and monitoring accounts receivables, the company is enhancing its ability to meet short-term obligations while supporting future growth initiatives. Our journey towards sustained growth and profitability is led by our dedication towards innovation, operational excellence and higher standards of quality. We take pride in our strong capacity and expertise in capitalizing the growth of smart metering and consumer electrical products in India.
Looking ahead, we remain optimistic and well positioned to tackle the emerging market opportunities. Our robust order book of INR 1,500 crores not only strengthens our revenue visibility, but also serves as the foundation for substantial growth in the coming years.
Thank you once again for joining us today. I now open the floor for any questions you may have. Thank you.
Thank you. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from [ Sri Harsha, ] an investor.
I would like to know what are the order opportunities to develop in smart electric meter and 5G .
Yes. So we are seeing a big opportunity in the smart metering. And if you see, the government has been talking a lot on this and subsequently, we have seen the schemes of RDSS and the DBFOOT, which has come out with a view to -- in the smart metering across the country. And the government has been continuously talking about 25 crore meters to be installed. And likewise, we have seen a lot of inquiries and orders of late coming out across the country.
So if you see the way the metering market is moving, that most of the states are today either evaluating or either they have come out with tenders or many of them have even finalized. And maximum of the meters getting finalized have happened in the last 6 months. So if you look at HPL Electric, we are currently sitting on an order book of over INR 1,550 crores and over 80% of these are meters. And out of the meter orders what we have, over 75% are the smart meter orders. So in a way as a country and as an industry, we are seeing a big change happen where the industry is going to grow multifold with huge demand coming in.
And we would believe that this would really bring in a lot of much needed energy efficiency and reforms in the sector where the T&D losses would be cut. And as HPL, our preparedness to meet this kind of an opportunity in terms of having a capacity being technologically advanced and abreast with the needs of the requirement of the smart meter. So everything we have in place today, which is helping us to garner sales and orders going forward.
Sir, how much is the installed capacity as of now and what are the orders, which you're expecting in '24, financial year '24?
Yes. So it's almost -- I think the installed capacity in energy meters is almost 11 million units. And -- but a lot of these capacities are scalable. So in a way -- like in the last 2 quarters, we have seen a stronger execution by HPL. And even going forward, on a quarter-to-quarter basis, we hope to see that improvement happen because right now, the orders are there.
So in terms of numbers, I think we are probably doing over 60%, 70% of our capacity. But I think, as I said, this is a scalable capacity. And in some back-end operations, we are either putting in a lot of automation to bring in much better efficiencies or even to enhance the output.
Okay. And then EBITDA margin of 12.43%, which -- reported for '23...
Sorry your voice is not clear, Harshaji. Can you just...
Yes, yes. This EBITDA margin of 12.43%, which you have reported for '23, are you going to improve or that EBITDA margin or you're going to have the same margin for the financial year '24?
No. You are talking about only for the EBIT margin for the meters or EBITDA as a company?
As a company. EBIT margin for the company.
As a company, our EBITDA margins are currently around 12.43%. Yes. But although we are now seeing a much more stable environment in terms of the commodity pricing and other things. But I think going forward, on the EBIT level, first, I'll just take up on EBIT, we might see certain improvement in the meters.
But broadly, I would say the 14% what we have in the Q4 is something, which will probably continue during the year. In the consumer and industrial, around 12% should be the EBIT. So overall, with meter doing a little higher share in the coming future, we may see a slight improvement. But broadly, we hope to keep the margin -- I mean, we hope that the margins would be at those levels.
Our next question comes from [ Diksha Patel, ] an investor.
Gautam, I have a few questions regarding export growth. Could you give us a detailed overview of HPL's growth in exports over the last quarter? And has this performance met our expectations? And are there any products or regions that are contributing significantly to this growth?
Yes. So our -- in terms of the order book, our exports, I would say we did achieve what we were looking at. But in terms of the supplies, definitely, I think they got postponed due to various factors. But overall, the last 2, 3 years have seen, I would say, sufficiently a reasonably good growth in terms of export. And more so, a lot of work has been done in reaching out to various countries.
And I think that is something, which is going to help us more in the future. We've also worked on getting certifications done for certain of our products, which are country-specific or some in general, which are to the international standards, having a wider applicability across the globe. So a lot of work has been done. I would say the last year sales of exports have been normally flat if you look at the earlier year.
But going forward, we are again -- we are hopeful that this year, we should see a much better growth. And with certain countries, which we did face certain issues on -- more on the ForEx and other things, but I think that's a global phenomenon. But overall, I think we hope to see a good growth. In terms of regions, we are focused on the Middle East and Africa. Africa is a big potential for us. And our penetration even going forward is going to increase much more in Africa.
We have, in fact, recently participated in a couple of international exhibitions in Germany and in Dubai. And I do hope that, that will bring in good results for the coming year. Our focus otherwise is also on the SAARC countries and a lot of business today is coming in where people are -- you are aware that there is like a plus one strategy. What a lot of international customers are looking at where they look at India as a good sourcing base. And I think with our -- as HPL with our very strong backward integration in terms of design, development, manufacturing and being very cost effective, I think that is again going to see a lot of traction in the coming years.
So we do have a lot of big customers internationally who are in touch with us who are looking to source out materials as an OEM. So this is again a big opportunity, and we are pursuing that. And I think definitely, we hope to see some good results in the coming year.
Okay. Great. And how do we plan to manage potential risk related to currency fluctuations and its impact on export revenue?
Till now, the currency has been moving up. So it's always been a positive for the export for us. But I think, in terms of -- because largely the commodity pricing for manufacturing is all -- again based on the ForEx. So as such, our aim is -- in a way, we are not looking at making gains only on the currency part. So I think that's not something, which would affect our normal business.
Till now, the way the currency has been moving in the last 3 years, it always helped us to improve our realization and EBIT. But not more because the basic commodities are -- again, as I said, are again pegged to the dollar. So the copper, the industrial plastics, everything else, what goes into making the products is also there. So there's not a -- I don't see any gain, but maybe a small accounting gain may happen quarter-to-quarter somewhere.
My next question is regarding competition. How are we positioned in the market relative to our competitors, and what sets us apart in the industry? And what measures are we taking to maintain our competitive advantage in the market?
Yes. This has to be seen with respect to both our segments separately. So if you -- when we look at the metering and systems, here, the business is mainly tender-driven and here, of course, we have a good market leadership. But there are a few players in that. And the business is tender-driven because the bulk of the supplies are to the utility.
So here, of course, our competitive edge, if you see, comes in from our control over the technology. We have over 125 people in R&D who are doing R&D apart from the smart metering. We are also -- we have people working on the software, on the communication, on the complete infrastructure what goes with the smart metering. So there, that's our strength, our manufacturing capacity, our ability to have a, I would say, a low-cost product, meeting the standards and the specifications.
So I think a lot of things we -- as a peer, we've been working on. And we also leverage our -- because we are into wider products with 7 factories. So we do have a lot of bridge within the group itself, including in terms of manpower, in terms of specialization. So that is how it is. When we look at the consumer electrical part, there -- we are -- as against our competition, we are looking to expand our reach. We are working on our -- expanding the distribution network, wherein our retailers just 2 years back, we kept a target to reach 100,000 retailers. We're almost -- we're now at 45,000.
But I think in the next 1.5 years, we are hopeful of reaching that figure. So that's a continuous process. Our [indiscernible] spend is also now back post the COVID. There were some falls, but now again, we have almost -- if you look at the past year, we have spent over 2%, I think 2.2% to be exact, on the advertising and the promotion -- the business promotion. So definitely, we are looking at it. A very strong point in HPL has always been the technology and the product itself. So anybody we believe who uses our product definitely comes back. So that is one factor, which really puts HPL quite ahead of its competition, although we rarely need to work more on the brand, we rarely need to work more on the reach and then grow the numbers, yes.
Great. My last question to you is regarding plant capacity. So with the increasing demand for your products, how does HPL plan to ensure sufficient capacity? And have there been any recent or planned investments in expanding manufacturing capability to meet the demand?
We have -- we've always maintained we have sufficient capacities in terms of all the products. And -- but now of late, especially in the year which has just ended, in the FY '23, we have seen the capacity utilization improve across all our product ranges. So this year, again, we don't see any major CapEx to happen, although certain routine and maintenance CapEx would continue.
In terms of the way we are seeing the demand, I think we are fully well -- our readiness to meet the increased demand, whether it is in switchgears or in meters, even wire and cable. So we are -- I think we have a sufficient amount of capacity to go ahead. And this year, going forward, we are seeing a good amount of growth even going forward.
Last year, the people will recall that we had talked about a double-digit, over 20% growth. And I think overall, at the end of the year, we have achieved almost 25% growth. So going forward, again, we have a similar kind of growth what we expect and the capacities currently what we have is fairly sufficient to meet the demand.
Congrats on a great set of results.
Thank you. Thank you, Diksha.
[Operator Instructions] Our next question comes from [ Priya Jen, ] an Investor.
Good afternoon, everyone. I would like to congratulate the management on the excellent results. I had a couple of questions. I might have joined a bit late, but if you could just give me a snippet. My first question was on -- if you could give me a breakdown on the revenue growth within both the consumer and industrial segments. How have the recent product launches affected the revenue growth in both the consumer and industrial segment?
Yes. If you see, the -- out of nearly INR 600 crores, if you see, almost 70% of the C&I segment what we have is on the consumer part and 30% is on the industrial part. So now just to give you a drive-down, we -- in consumer and industrial, we have switchgears, we have wire and cables and then we have the lighting. And -- so almost 70% of it is more on the consumer side and 30% on the industrial.
But also the industrial, the major supplies are again going in through the dealers and distributors. Although, our teams are working on the approvals and doing the generation of secondary demand. But most of the segment goes in through the dealer and distributor segment. Now in terms of product launches, there have been -- within these verticals, what we have -- within the 45 verticals what we have comprising of the meters or switchgear, lighting, wire and cable or even solar products, most of these -- every division has been launching some products on a quarter-to-quarter basis.
In fact, in February '23, we had the Elecrama, which is one of the biggest electrical players in the country. In fact, now probably one of the biggest across the globe. There were a lot of launches, which the company has done. And -- but this is all segment-wide. So there were new kinds of cables. There were a lot of new lighting, both in industrial or even in the consumer side. Switchgear has seen a lot of new products, new models coming in. And so this has been a continuous process in HPL. And definitely, the revenues, what you see even as they are there, so that does contribute.
So we don't specifically kind of just monitor. Maybe individually, the divisions are growing. But broadly, that is required to ensure the future growth coming in there. Also because of our own R&D and our own testing labs and other things, we are also having a lot of new products, which are modified for individual markets. So like, if you look at the requirements even in India, some coming from the government or some -- especially, certain real estate developers have some special requirements in terms of distribution boards or certain mini panels that they would want or even across -- going to different countries where people are looking at special products. So we do have the capability of adjusting and modifying the products to come out with the requirements as per the customer.
So are we expecting a similar kind of impact in the next quarter or growth expectations on the consumer and the investor segment in the coming year?
I would say we are hopeful for a better growth. If you see last year, in fact -- if you see the last 3 years, we have seen 2 years of a very strong growth coming in from the consumer and industrial segment, almost over 20% plus in the 2 years.
Last year, somewhere in end of second quarter and the third quarter, we have seen certain slowdown. We did see a slowdown in the general consumer market. The offtake was lower. And -- so that -- there, we have seen a slight drop. But if you especially look at the quarter-on-quarter growth, from Q3 to Q4, the consumer and industrial segment has seen a good growth, I think over 25% growth quarter-on-quarter. So definitely, in the effort, we have seen the C&I segment really come back.
Now going forward, we definitely look at, at least a good double-digit growth for this segment going forward. So our internal target is to ensure that the sales of Q1 at least matches the sales of Q4. So -- because Q4 is normally the strongest quarter in the year. So at least if we do that, I think we should be well on track for getting a good growth in this segment as well.
[Operator Instructions] Our question comes from [ Priya Jen, ] an investor.
Okay. I had another question regarding the smart meter. Could you provide an overview of the performance of the meter segment in the month of March?
I'll just broad base it. I'll give you for the whole quarter, if you see the smart meters, as I said a while ago, we are -- we have started seeing a good execution. The orders currently, as we speak, are over INR 1,270 crores. So the order book in meters is strong. The inquiries currently what we are talking about are well in excess of over INR 10,000 crores.
In fact, if you consider even all the AMISP requirements and all, the requirements are even much larger than that. So the overall -- the inquiries are large. In terms of our performance, we've done almost INR 180 crores -- I think about INR 180-plus crores in the [indiscernible] segment. So in a way, it's been a gradual increase almost quarter-to-quarter. And year-to-year, the -- in the overall year, we have grown almost 50%. So -- and even going forward, we would see a good growth, especially in the smart meter segment, yes.
Okay. I just had one last question regarding the 5G infrastructure with HPL. What role does the company anticipate playing in the transformation? And how will the 5G rollout impact HPL's product road map, particularly with respect to the smart devices and work solutions?
So in terms of -- in -- if you look at the 5G infrastructure, which is coming up, we have a couple of products which are well suited for those requirements. And here, certain switchgears are there, but mainly we have the cables, which are going. So we did, at one time, inform that we would be anticipating almost INR 100 crores to INR 150 crores of orders in the near future.
And I think rightly so, we have already got orders of over INR 50 crores to INR 70 crores already, which we have kind of executed or they are under execution. And a lot of new orders are expected. So this is, of course a -- it's part of our strategy, which we adopted about 4 years back. We were supplying in the -- the 4G to most of the telecom players and now again, doing it for the 5G. So that focus has been maintained and we do see a good demand coming up. So probably for the next 2 years, the demand should go -- increase. But on a very short term also, this year also, we would definitely have a good turnover coming in from the 5G opportunity.
Our next question comes from Abhijit Sinha with Pi Square Investments.
Sir, you mentioned that out of the INR 1,500 crore order book that we have currently, about 80% comes from the smart meter business, right? What about the consumer business? Are we not planning to grow that substantially in the future?
Sorry, the last part we missed out, Abhijit.
Sir, the consumer business. Are we planning to grow that? Because [indiscernible] growth in this quarter.
You have to see the nature of business. If you look at the utility business, where normally the smart meters are going, we get in orders, which are a schedule of, let's say, from 6 months to almost 2 years. So there is definitely a lot of order book, what we see there on the books.
In fact, now the way we look at the meters we would see a big pileup of orders in the next 1 to 2 years. So a huge order book would be coming in, and then that would be executed over the next 12 to 24 months. That is how it is.
In the consumer and the industrial business, here, the orders come in on a day-to-day basis. So normally, this business does not have a pileup of orders. But if you look at our pure consumer electrical products, almost on a daily basis, we have the orders coming in and they get executed. So the nature of business is like this.
So -- but going forward, like although smart meter has a very strong opportunity, which we are encashing. But even the consumer and industrial, our focus remains very strong, and we do expect a good growth this year as well.
So just to say the order book in consumer and industrial is not indicative of the business potential or something -- the future business. The orders will come in on a day-to-day basis, but that does not happen for the smart meters, yes. There, it takes time. From the inquiry stage up to the orders, normally it's a 3 months' or 6 months' time until the orders are finalized. So immediately, they don't get repeated as well. It takes time now.
Sir, when we are saying the 5G cables, that comes under the consumer [indiscernible] or the metering?
No, that comes under the consumer part because the wire and cable gets credited. So more on the industrial part, you can say that. Yes. Because that is then an institutional supply.
We mentioned that we are seeing a INR 100 crore to INR 150 crore opportunity here. Our quarterly revenue over there -- from that segment is about INR 170 crores. So isn't it not that significant comparatively, sir?
No, the orders of 5G started off somewhere in Q3 of last year and they would continue. So we have said that almost we expected more than INR 100 crores or INR 150 crores spread over next 18 months. So they will go on for a longer time. And even their offtake is dependent. But yes, maybe we had INR 10 crores, INR 15 crores plus going in every quarter. That is how we will see the future offtake happening.
And sir, you mentioned that the INR 1,500 crore order book that we have, that's is executable over the next 2 years, right?
Sorry, you need to be louder, please.
Sir, the order book that we have of INR 1,500 crores at the moment, that's executable in the next 2 years, right?
Yes.
All right, sir. Over here, I'm seeing saying that metering segment has grown by about 30% this quarter, but it has hampered our margins as well. So what type of margins should we be expecting from this signal going forward?
The EBIT margins, if you look at right now the order book, a lot of the last 2 orders, the big orders what we have reported are more to the AMISPs under the RDSS scheme. So they probably would have better margins. But this -- the implementation of these where the impact would come -- would start from the second half, maybe Q3 and Q4 of this year. Because most of these big orders which come in, it takes 6 to 8 months to get them started, get the integrations is done and do that.
Right now, I would say maybe we kind of continue to have margins around 14%, 15%. But we are hopeful that once the bulk of the rollout is happening under the AMISP -- to the AMISPs under the RDSS, that -- there the margin improvement would happen definitely. And so that should probably kick in some times in the second half of the year or probably even spill into the next year.
Understood, sir. So what kind of number should we be expecting kind of -- right now, I think we ended the year at about a 14% margin in this segment?
No, in meters, it would say -- yes, I would say about 14% what we have was in Q4. Initially, yes, around 14% to 15%, I would say that. In the consumer part, it would be about 12% EBIT margin.
Okay. So whatever is the margin currently, we sustain that.
Sorry, can you repeat that, please?
I'm saying the -- so that -- the 14% and 12% that you mentioned just now, it is what we had in FY '23 as well? So I think these margins are going to sustain at the same level?
Yes, we hope that, that should sustain. Plus, if you look at the overall -- the commodity pricing, the -- most of the commodities, the raw material pricing, even the availabilities of the electronic component or the ICs, everything is, right now, quite stable.
So I would say that to maintain that would be -- that is where we look to have that. The margins would be maintained. But this year, what we expect is that, again, a good revenue growth would happen in both the segments, especially in the smart meters. And that is -- that will see the, in absolute terms, the EBITDA margin where value is really going up.
Understood, sir. The actual reason why I asked you this question was because last year when the commodity prices were higher, we had about a 16% metering margin. In the meter business, we had about a 16% margin. That's why I said that is 16% -- 15%, 16% kind of a range that we can achieve? Or...
No, I would say that, look -- ultimately, it depends on the product mix, it depends on -- because we are seeing one segment, but there are so many products in it. Consumer and industrial itself, if you look at the SKUs, we're talking about hundreds of SKUs. So broadly to broad base on a figure sometimes becomes difficult.
But broadly, if you look at it, and if we look -- go back on a couple of quarters, it should be like that. But right now, even Q4, we have seen certain stability in terms of the commodity pricing. So -- and with good volumes. So that is the margin that is coming in, for Q1, I don't see -- or Q1 or Q2, I don't see any big change happening right now. There's no positive change just to drive that. But of course, only our sales, we expect initially to maintain the Q4 sales in Q1, but thereafter probably grow it up in a bigger way, yes.
Just one last question is that right now, if we see the revenue mix for the end of the year, we are I think about 53% metering and 47% is from consumer business. So eventually, since our order book is an 80-20 split, does this go up to about 60-40 kind of a range next year?
No, I just said that a while ago that we would -- the orders for consumer and industrial come on a day-to-day basis unlike the meters. So in meters we need to see the orders, which we have received now. Probably the execution of this, especially for the bigger orders will start maybe after 4 months or 6 months. So it takes time. So there the lag period is high.
In consumer and industrial, probably what we are building today, the order could have come in last night. That is how it moves out. So that is it. But just to answer your question, this year, we would be again, looking at anywhere between INR 1,500 crores plus. So that would be, again, a good 20% plus jump this year. And I would say almost maybe 55% of it could be metering and 45% would be the consumer and industrial. So for us, the focus largely remains on both these segments, very strong.
In the next 2 years, I anticipate, it is my personal opinion that meters would see a very big spike in terms of orders and executions. And thereafter when the O&M period comes in, there -- that would come back to the normal levels, yes.
As there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Gautam for closing comments.
Yes, thank you for participating in the call today, and we appreciate your support as we navigate our path towards the sustained growth. So if you have any further inquiries, please don't hesitate to contact Dickenson World or reach out to us directly. Thank you all, and have a pleasant day.
Thank you. On behalf of HPL Electric & Power Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.