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Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Gujarat Pipavav Port Limited Q4 FY '20 Post Results Analyst Conference Call hosted by Anders Capital. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. [ Karan Ginodia ] from Anders Capital. Thank you. And over to you, sir.
Thank you so much, Bijan, and good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to Gujarat Pipavav's 4Q '20 earnings call. We have with us Mr. Jakob Sorensen, the Managing Director; and Mr. Santosh Breed, CFO. The management will then give a presentation on their earnings, and then we will open the floor to Q&A. Sir, over to you.
Yes. Good afternoon, everybody. I will ask Santosh to go through the numbers and present our results for the year finalized now.
Thanks, Jakob. Good evening, everybody, and let me first apologize for this delay. We had some technical challenges at our end in submitting the results and the presentation. [Technical Difficulty]Okay. So I'll start again. So good evening, everybody, and thanks for joining, and my sincere apologies for starting this bit late. We had some technical challenges at our end in uploading the results and the presentation on the Stock Exchange. So this has been now uploaded on the NSE. So you can find that information there. But let me just take you through the key numbers of our financial results. So I'm starting with the full year results for 31st March 2020, financial year '19/'20. The total operating income at INR 7,354 million is up by 5% due to higher revenue from Container, Bulk and Liquid business. Total expenses at INR 2,888 million are lower by 8%. Operating expenses at INR 1,271 million are lower by 12% due to the classification of operational leases to financial leases on implementation of accounting standard IND AS 116. Other expense at INR 1,049 million are lower by 4% due to lower administrative and other costs. EBITDA at INR 4,466 million is higher by 15%. Margin at 61% is higher by 500 basis points on account of tariff increase and implementation of IND AS 116. Other income at INR 509 million is higher by 12%, includes [ INR 38 million ] of dividend from associated company, Pipavav Railway Corporation Ltd. The net profit at INR 2,911 million is higher by 42% on account of reversal of deferred tax liability. The net profit, excluding the tax adjustment, is at INR 2,311 million, higher by 13%. So just to summarize the financial results for the full year. The key highlights of the results have been that we have increased the revenue by 5%, the EBITDA has increased by 15%, the margin has increased by 500 basis points. Moving on to the quarterly performance, which is the performance for the fourth quarter of financial year 2020. So as you have that this quarter...
[indiscernible] I think it's 2019, yes?
Yes. So '19 -- 2019/2020. So as you're aware, that this current quarter was impacted due to pandemic COVID-19, and we also had some impact on the order volumes and reserve because of the lockdown, which happened during month of March. So excluding this impact, the volumes on the container side would have been higher by almost 5% [ berthing ] than what you see currently in our results. With that note, I'd like to share some details of our financial results for the quarter. So total operating income at INR 1,619 million is down by 18% from immediately preceding quarter due to lower volume. Other expenses at INR 615 million are lower by 23% as compared to the previous quarter. Operating expenses at INR 254 million are lower by 32% due to lower bulk handling expenses. Other expenses at INR 220 million are lower by 22% as compared to the previous quarter due to lower repairs and maintenance and administrative expenses. EBITDA at INR 1,004 million is lower by 14%, and margin at 62% is higher by 250 basis points. Other income at INR 118 million is higher by 4%. The reported net profit of INR 472 million is lower by 61% as compared to previous quarter, and this is mainly due to the deferred tax reversal which was there in the previous quarter. So excluding this impact of the deferred tax reversal, the net profit would have been lower by 21% as compared to the previous quarter. We also have the consolidated financials shared with you. The share of profit, what we received from the associate company, Pipavav Corporation, which was consolidated with the financial year for the full financial year profit, the share of profit was INR 308 million. And with that, the consolidated net profit for the financial year ended 31st March is at INR 3,181 million. So the key highlights just to summarize for the current quarter. So yes, the volumes have been impacted mainly because of COVID. We had multiple skipped calls, but the port was fully operational, and we had handled all the vessels in a very safe manner. We also have worked consistently to ensure our costs are getting reduced, in line with our [ dropped ] volumes. And with that, we have ensured there is a limited impact of this current situation on the financial results. So as a result of this, by ensuring controlling of costs, and we have ensured the margins have been maintained, and we report a 62% margin for the current quarter. On the volume front, for that, I'd like to give a quick update on the key volume development. So we have a separate slide on our -- on your presentation for the volume. So here, we have done 197,000 TEUs on the container business, of which 117,000 TEUs were [ ICU ] volume. Our Liquid, we are done 0.19 million metric tons. Dry Bulk, we have done 0.41 million metric tons. And RoRo has been a very low of around 3,000 cars. So this has been the overall -- the business stream has been overall impacted globally now, and same impact has also been seen at other ports when we look at the RoRo exports. I would also like to share with you that in the Board meeting today, the Board of Directors have proposed a final dividend of INR 3.50 per share, which is subject to approval from the shareholders at the forthcoming Annual General Meeting of the company. So with this INR 3.50 per share, the total dividend paid for financial year 2019/2020 is INR 5.60 per share. So this was the overall update on our results. We'll be happy to take questions now.
[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Mohit Kumar from IDFC Securities.
The first question is, is it possible for you to share some kind of outlook for FY '21 and especially for quarter 1, given that the COVID situation? Though [indiscernible] could comment, sir, qualitatively how do you think [ things are panning out ]. [indiscernible] and how you see, looking forward for the next -- like -- in the next 6 to 9 months, how the volumes should ramp up?
Okay. So Mohit, first of all, of course, we have not been giving much -- we are not giving guidance on the future volumes. Having said this, things are very, very uncertain as of now. So because of the lockdown in India and also earlier in Far East and Europe, we have seen some impact on the order volumes in the trade, both import as well as export. Having said this, this also creates an opportunity, because we are working very closely with our customers to ensure that there is very limited impact on their supply chain. And with that, we hope that we have a very minimal impact on our volumes at Pipavav.On the global front, what -- numbers which are coming up on the global front are generally expect a reduction of around 20% in the overall annual volumes. But as I mentioned, when I look at Pipavav, we are hopeful, and we are working towards to ensure that it's a very minimal impact on the port volumes at Pipavav.
Certainly, I would also like to add here.
Please, Jakob. Jakob, please go ahead.
Can you hear me?
Yes.
Good. So I just want to say as part of APMT global guidelines, what we have been focusing on is a couple of priorities. Number one has been to keep our people safe. And that has been, of course, with regards to not only the day-to-day operations, but certainly also to the COVID-19. So we've ensured that anyone working in the port has been kept completely safe with the appropriate PPE gear and all the measurements have been taken also when we have people from outside, third parties entering the port, whether that be by sea or by land. And we have followed all the prescribed security and safety and quarantine measures, including myself, who spent about 2 months in the port, part of that under quarantine. So we've been very successful in ensuring that people also feel safe, which again, leads me to say that we have ensured that we have had adequate number of labor, and we have not faced the situation which has been prevailed in other ports. The second thing I wanted to say is that, as Santosh alluded to before, we have made sure that our costs is under control, so that if we are seeing a volume [ dip ] -- and the volume forecast is indeed very, very difficult to make into the future -- but we have ensured that we have good grip around costs and especially variable costs so that if the volume go down, that we have the corresponding variable cost savings. And the third priority has been to take care of our customers' business. And Santosh also said to that, we are in close coordination with our customers, so they know better the forecast than we do. So when it goes regarding to shipping lines, we have ensured that they can do support, both containers and noncontainer activities. When it goes to the land-side of servicing our port, I believe we've been very much reassured through PRCL and other rail operators that access to and from people at our port on the land-side has been continuously -- and in fact, when the railway network has been absent of passenger trains, we have been able to break a few records. In April, we ran 293 block trains to the northern part of India, which was an all-time high. So I think those 3 parameters are giving us some confidence in this uncertain time that we can service our customers also going forward. But what is remaining very difficult to forecast is the volumes. We see some signs, of course, of India opening up again, and that's good for the manufacturing side of it. But also, we are depending on the rest of the world in terms of demand, and we still need to see some openings up in certain key markets. That's my comments to that query.
Sir, the second question is, you say, are there evacuation challenges from Pipavav, especially on the road side? Or has it eased out? Or do you think it is -- is there some challenges which are still remaining?
On road, the road conditions themselves are improving, but they are not complete. But we are following up with the local authorities in terms of the road network. The challenges in regards to trucks and road evacuation has primarily been the lack of drivers, and that's a challenge that is faced by all ports. And my point before was that some people are -- we are, to a larger degree, also relying on evacuation by rail, and that has been working absolutely perfect.
My last question, have you taken any tariff hike from April? Or it has been postponed for now?
I don't -- I think we had a slight tariff adjustment earlier in the year in this financially closed year, but we have so far not done so -- Santosh, can you supplement that?
Yes. That's right, Jakob. So we have taken a tariff hike in April 2019, and this was limited to our evacuation on the rail, so that's why we're taking a hike. So roughly, it's around 4% of the total revenue.
The next question from the line of Parash Jain from HSBC.
And just for the operator, I mean your line is pretty terrible, and we can barely hear you, although luckily you can hear the management pretty well. So I have 2 questions actually. First, I'm not sure if I heard correctly. I think Santosh, during the call, you said that like industry is guiding 20% volume for this year? Or you were referring to April to June quarter? I have not seen that number. In fact, 2 days back, CMA, the fact that you are almost 9 weeks into the second quarter, can you tell us how your April and May months were tracking? And do you see India's EXIM cargo to lag behind the global cargo trend going into second -- going into this quarter or perhaps this year? And second question is more regarding like whenever I look at your quarterly numbers, I mean, if you look at container, in particular, volume declined 15%. You had a lower transshipment volume so the quality of the cargo handle has gone up. The rupee has depreciated on an average by about 3%, 4% quarterly. Why is the revenue down sharper than the volume? Is it a mismatch in terms of timing? Or it is the kind of discount that you have given to your customers in this quarter?
Okay. Parash, so let me answer your first question, which is about the volumes. So what I mentioned was the global expectation on overall volume drops on an annual basis was 20%. So that's the global expectation, it's not specific to India. And I also mentioned, when we look at India and specific Port Pipavav, then we do expect it to be much lower than what the global guidance that's coming out right now. It will be very difficult for me to comment on the volumes specifically...
Sorry, Santosh, I just would like us to clarify that when you say lower, you mean less than 20% drop.
That's right.
No. Sir, Santosh, what I wanted to clarify is that when you say global expectations, is it GPC's expectation of global trade? I have not seen that number anywhere. I mean even your parent company was talking about 20% decline only in this quarter. And all the -- whether you look at Ruby, whether you look at Alphaliner, Clarkson, nobody is guiding anything worse than probably 10%, 11%. I just wanted to understand if I hear you correctly.
So this is our guidance on the global numbers of pallets, so we take our internal assessment, which has been done on a global level.
Okay. I got it.
A global level, yes. But as I mentioned, I mean, as Jakob also said that at the power, when we look at, then we don't really expect it to be down by 20%. We expect much lower reduction in volume. And primarily this is because we have seen the [indiscernible] stores that are opening up now. And slowly even in India, now the lockdown has been phased out, and we are hoping that the consumption will start. And with that, we should not see a significant drop in the volumes at Pipavav. Coming to your second question, now you're looking at...
Santosh, sorry, I just want to be absolutely clear that what has been said globally has been a 20% volume reduction in this quarter and a U-shaped recovery. So we don't expect a spike in recovery. We expect a U-shaped recovery over the next couple of quarters. So I think that matches up with your general information. And what Santosh said is that we, in Pipavav, are looking at a lesser drop in volumes compared to that global outlook, for a number of reasons. But we have seen containers, as you pointed out, the transshipment has gone down, but that was the least profitable business. And we have seen coastal volume go up and export go slightly up. So there's a better combination of the container volumes. And we have seen some strong indications in the port, primarily in fertilizer and coal.
Okay. Yes, something I wanted to clarify and maybe to Jakob, like are you guys in a position to comment on how April and May were in terms of volume? And then you talked about India basically opening up. I mean are you seeing any signs of improvement -- I don't know, on a week-on-week basis? Or any color that you can give on how cargo are tracking the transition from entering into COVID or coming out from COVID?
So Parash, yes -- Jakob, go ahead.
I'd like to -- yes, I'd like to answer that, but just hang on to the second question as well. But what I would say, that there's, of course, a myriad of factors that are impacting now the recovery and the opening up of India. But I think the netted -- I think what I would say net, yes, we are seeing week-on-week improved volumes that are coming. But you then have other bottlenecks. You have manufacturing that needs to get restarted. You have still migrant labor that are potentially missing in the manufacturing side. You have still a lack of truck drivers, et cetera, et cetera. So -- but the net effect is that yes, we are seeing India coming back to life, and there's some week-on-week recovery. But I also said that we are expecting that to be a U-shape, and the U could be a long U [indiscernible], not a spiking recovery. [indiscernible] financial question.
So Parash, your observation has been right when you look at our quarterly numbers. So yes, the container volumes have been down, but a significant part of that has been the TP volume. So when I compare it with the immediate quarter, the December quarter, then there has been an up in our realization. Likewise, when you compare it with the last year, then it also -- has also improved. So typically, last year, we were in the range of around 5,800 to [ 5,940 ], which was a composition of Coastal EXIM transhipment put together. And of course, direct increase was not there. Now that has moved in the range of around 6,000 to 6,100. As a tariff increase, we have taken tariff only on a small component of our rail evacuation. So it was not an increase across all the revenue items, only certain parts. So that's the reason...
The next question is from the line of Ankit Panchmatia from B&K Securities.
Sir, I wanted the IND AS impact on our expenses for the current quarter, if you can give me.
So okay. Ankit, basically IND AS, just to [ quickly ] explain what IND AS is all about is basically all our operational leases have been now taken into the financial leases. And so what happens there is operating cost has gone down. And our asset -- right-to-use of asset has been capitalized. So that's why you can also see that item in our balance sheet number.
Sir, I wanted the number for this quarter. I got your point. I wondered to -- to what extent it has kind of reduced our operating expenses and inflated our finance cost and depreciation cost. That's that number I want.
Sure. So if you look at our operating cost, the entire reduction in the operating cost is mainly because of IND AS implementation. So from that, you can, of course, derive the number. That's the main driver for reduction in the costs.
Okay, okay, okay. No problem. And sir, I wanted your bulk split, if you can just give what is -- how much is fertilizer? How much is other categories, if you can give?
Sure, Ankit. So in terms of volume take of a bulk is concerned, well, we have 136,000 metric ton of coal, 218,000 metric ton of fertilizer and 58,000 of others, which means minerals and other commodities.
Okay. Okay. And sir, just wanted your view, how -- what is the total volumes contributed by BP for the current quarter or maybe for complete FY '20, if you can provide that number?
Sorry, can you just repeat what contribution you just asked?
What is the total contribution in the volumes from BP?
Volumes from BP's?
Yes. From [ AP ] -- sorry, APM, APM...
Okay. Yes. So basically, in the -- basically, around 40% is coming from both in the current quarter. And for full year, it will be in the range of around 45%, a bit on the high side.
Okay. Okay, sir. And sir, our preparedness regarding DFC, has the CapEx through any guidance, any time lines around the same would be much helpful.
So yes, so DFC, we are already on track. And we are working closely with our associate company, Pipavav Rail Corporation Limited, on this project, and we are also aligned with Indian Railways. So there have been some delays because of COVID-19 by a couple of months. But as far as we are concerned, we will be ready in line with DFC by Indian Railways. So that is expected for -- in the last quarter now of 2020.
The next question from the line of [ Amod Parde from MK Global ].
So what was the transshipment volumes of the total container for Q4 and FY '20, if you can?
So for the transshipment volumes, we actually have not been providing the split by each type of cargo. So that's not for [indiscernible] guidance.
But Santosh, I think it's fair to say that the transshipment was empty containers. So it's -- the volume is maybe less interesting, but the reality is that it was maybe not best-paying cargo. So we are not that concerned that we have reduced that number significantly.
Okay. Fair enough, sir. And sir, of the 3 segments, I mean, like we have Container, Bulk and Liquid, if you just mention, which was the one which got impacted the most during the lockdown period? And -- or now in the unlocking phase, which are the ones who are performing much better compared to the lows, which we have seen during the April or May? I'm not talking about the volume, but just the trend on things are panning out across the Container, Bulk and the Liquid segment.
Yes. The Container business has followed the trend that Santosh talked about before. So there's the skipped calls and there's reduction in the volume in Containers, although we've had some specific projects for large customers where we have been making up for that. But there's a volume drop in Containers. On the Liquid bulk, in fact, the stock in the port -- in the tanks have been quite high. So we faced a structural issue in getting more liquid volume in, and that seems to be easing up as we are also working on with one of our big customers to build a railway siding, so we can have LPG by rail coming forward. So that's also in the works and will be coming in the future. Where we have seen the last year's growth must be said to be in the coal and the fertilizer business. And that is probably seasonal where you know the monsoon is going and fertilizers are high in demand now, and we expect that to be seen also in this quarter.
Okay. Okay, sir. And you mentioned about the major concern which you are facing in the logistic as the availability of the drivers. So any time line or thought process of when we can expect the normalcy as far as the availability of the drivers are concerned? Whether it will be during the Q2, or any thoughts?
That is the big question because there's a lot of factors that are impacting the drivers. And some of them are migrant workers who have been going back to their native states and so on. And now they face that they have to reverse that travel. But what I can say and what I mentioned before is as well, and I'm glad that there was a question earlier on. You can see what we're glad to say is that people on our port has a lesser dependence on the truck evacuation and quite reliable service in terms of rail. And if you can say that something is going to be different from the recovery after COVID-19, in our mind, that would be customers looking for reliability, potentially, rather than speed. And for that, I think the rail evacuation is going to be a good thing for the future.
The next question is from the line of Bharani Vijayakumar from Spark Capital.
So my first question is on the volumes on the entire Western Coast. So our competitors like JNPT have reported close to 20%, 25% decline for the year-to-date ending March -- sorry, May. So of course, we are expecting for the full year, it would be much lesser. So does it mean we are expecting over the next 10 months for Pipavav volumes to just scale back? And what would be the reasons for that?
Santosh? Will you comment?
Yes. I'll take that, Jakob. So just to answer your question, so while, of course, at the ports in JNPT, I think they had a major challenge, mainly because what we discussed just now. On the evacuation side, where there are multiple issues on the drivers being available for evacuating the cargo and there was a condition at the port. For us at Pipavav, luckily for us, things have worked fine; yes, we also have challenges in terms of the migrant labor and the drivers that was not to that extent, because we were in a green zone and we continue to operate. To answer your question about the projection for the next 10 months, then yes, we do expect a further recovery now from here on, on the volume front. Things are slowly getting to normal. The only challenge what we see is on getting the migrant labor back. And that's what we are working on to ensure that we have a continuity of seamless operations, which we have achieved so far. So Pipavav certainly believes that the volume should start coming back now in the rest of the year.
Sure. And given, for us, the import component would be higher than the export component, you had also mentioned how the Far East services are also scaling back in terms of calling our ports. So we do not, of course, see any major hiccups there, right, for the rest of the year?
Not really. Because, as you rightly said, we have Far East-based services and then more imports. And since last month, we have seen Far East ports opening up to much larger extent than what we are seeing right now in other parts of the world. So that's why we are quite hopeful to revive the volumes in the rest of the year.
Sure, sir. My last question is on -- yes.
I would just add to that, on the volume and on the export as well, because we are seeing potentially a more balanced picture between import from Far East, but also export, with a season coming up now for Middle East and export of Indian agricultural products to the Middle East. So it's looking like a more balanced import-export picture.
Understood. So the final question is on the tariff hike that we have taken in April 2019. So this 4% has been passed on entirely to the shipping lines? Or has some part been passed on to the rail operator also?
Most of it is entirely passed on the shipping lines.
The next question is from the line of Ashish Shah from Centrum Broking.
Sir, a couple of questions. One, could you give the realizations across the cargo? Containers is something that you gave, but if you can do about -- do for Bulk and for Liquid?
Sure, Ashish. So for Bulk, the [ realizations ] so -- are in the range of around 550 to 600 at least per metric ton, depending on the mix of the cargo.
Sorry to interrupt, sir. Sir, your voice is sounding very soft.
I'm able to hear him, operator. It's okay.
So I was mentioning on Bulk realization, which is in the range of 550 to 600 depending on the cargo mix. And on Liquid, we are in the range of around 540 to 560 range on the Liquid realization.
Would you say the Liquid realizations are kind of interpolated because, I guess, earlier, we used to be at probably around 500 or slightly lower. So has there been any change in the mix, which is driving this? Or nothing of that sort?
So it was in the range of around 530, 540. So it has increased marginally because of the cargo mix, and also a bit on how we -- on the parcel size; it also depends on the parcel size because the marine income is depending on what parcel size the vessels are carrying. So that's are the reason why it keeps on fluctuating a bit.
Right, right. Secondly, you did talk about the IND AS impact on the operating expenses in [indiscernible]. As I understand it, the IND AS impact has been there across the year, right? I mean, it started from the first quarter itself. So I'm saying when I look at the operating expenses, let's say, from Q3 to Q4, the impact entirely is because of the Bulk volumes being lower and because of the mix issues? Or there is anything which is a little one-off for the fourth quarter? Because frankly, the decline sequentially seems to be quite steep. Obviously, I know volumes have also been lower. But is there anything one-off there? Or this is the reduction that you've been managed -- you've managed to achieve?
So I think that's 2 factors. One, of course, is IND AS 116, and now also [ our forecasted ] numbers with me, which Ankit was trying to get at earlier. So to Ankit also on the call, then I can -- he can also note this down. So on an annual basis, when I look at my operating expenditure, then the overall impact of IND AS 116 is around INR 220 million, where the costs have reduced because of this reclassification. And for the quarter also, because there are some additional contracts which have got moved from operating lease to the financial lease, and also an impact of around INR 56 million in the current quarter for the operating expenditure. So these are the impact of IND AS, but other operation also rightly, yes, because of lower fertilizer volume in the current quarter and the handling costs are going down. And as Jakob mentioned earlier, there is continuous focus on reducing cost, taking into account a challenging situation, and we have really worked hard on reducing our indirect costs as well. So apart from the volume variations and the cost [indiscernible] with that, we also have an indirect cost.
Right. Santosh, I think we also should just highlight to people on the call here that there is a little silver lining in all the crises that fuel costs have also gone down, and that has probably mostly impacted us in the last quarter.
Yes.
Right. Lastly, can you tell us what is the EXIM growth on a year-on-year basis for the fourth quarter?
So EXIM, actually, we have as of the [ recent ] quarter, then it was almost flat, it has remained flat. And on year-on-year basis, it has improved [indiscernible] 3% to 4%.
Right. So 3% to 4% Y-o-Y on the EXIM growth and sequentially will be flattish?
That's correct.
The next question is from the line of [ Nimesh Shah from NK Investment Manager ].
Just one data point. What will be the container mix in terms of our total revenue? Then how many -- how much percentage would Container be contributing to...
So Container is in the range of around roughly around close to 70%. So the total revenue, 70% roughly comes from our Container business.
And can you share the realization for the Container volume? How...
Yes. So I mentioned earlier, it has moved now in the range of around of 5,900 to 6,100, in that range.
The next question comes from the line of Aditya Mongia from Kotak Securities.
So I had questions and the first question was more to get a sense of the mix of containers. So what exactly goes inside? On a relative basis versus other ports, would you be able to kind of tell us what is the broad mix of the contents of the container? Maybe along lines of the products inside or let's say, at between industrial manufacturing, consumer staples...
So I may actually never -- I mean, we don't really track on the commodity basis. But yes, just to answer your question, then there are various mix of cargo. So we do have agri products, we do have handicrafts, we do have brass, we do have electronics. And of course, our reefer market, which is basically [ leach ] and fish exports. So this is a major commodities, which are -- which are being exported right now.
Okay. I just kind of wanted to kind of think through whether the discretionary element of consumer spending is much more visible in your cargo mix versus that of other ports or not.
So -- yes. So basically...
Am I audible?
Yes, Jakob.
Yes. Okay, I think we are a little bit on the indicative factor here because our customers are primarily shipping lines. And then the shipping lines' customers are the manufacturers and potentially also the retailers. So I think it's giving a better indication to look at the various shipping lines conversation of cargo. But I think it's fair to say also that it's maybe not surprising that what we have seen exported out of India has been cargo that has been on stock. So that has been cargo that has been available for export, not depending on some manufacturing going on in advance. And what's coming in, import would be also components for manufacturing, and that has seen a little bit of a delay. Obviously, because since manufacturing has been stopped and what we are pleased to see now is that there's an indication that, especially from Far East, consumer electronics and so on, that there are some components that are coming in now, which is picking up again. And on top of that, as Santosh said, we have export of [ fish ]. We have export of Indian agricultural products, which also is a bit seasonal. But we have a variety of cargo mix that comes up now.
Got it. That's helpful. The second question was more on Jakob's comment that in terms of the -- in terms of the decision to be taken as how to evacuate containers from the terminal, there's been a shift toward rail. I just want to kind of get a sense from you as to -- do you think this is something that can be more permanent? Or as once subscribers come back that you used broadly against the same model mix as was prevalent prior to COVID?
That's a very good question. And if I can answer that, Santosh?
Yes.
First of all, we have a structural change that will happen going forward, and that is the commissioning of the DFC. It is only months away before the DFC can open up its Phase 1, and that gives a lot more capacity on the cargo of rail tracks. It also, of course, depends on the customers. And what we are predicting is that customers, in general, will try to redesign their supply chains in various ways. You could predict some people would be less dependent on a certain country. You could predict that people are prioritizing the reliability rather than speed. And what we see is that with the extra capacity on trains, that is that we will be able to provide some more certainty and reliability. The other factor is that it is more environmentally friendly to transport cargo by rail compared to truck. So hopefully, also, what we will see coming out of the COVID situation, we've already seen remarkable changes in the color of the skies, that we've seen, of course, limited airplanes in the sky as well. And you know very well that opening up India for the air traffic is going to take a long time. I would say that hopefully we can hold on to a good percentage of the cargo moving by rail. And in this respect, I think it's also due to give a compliment to CONCOR, which is a Government of India corporation, which has acted very much as a good citizen in this crisis here. CONCOR has been tremendous in helping the movement of goods and given a lot of flexibility on their services. So I'd like just to recommend everybody to take notice on CONCOR, how they have acted as a very [indiscernible] India.
Got that, sir. And just a follow-up thing, sir. If there is a meaningful change in the availability of railway mode of transportation, do you think it can lead to any port-specific changes of volumes that could actually benefit Pipavav?
Well, I'm quite hopeful that it will, because we are investing in DFC as well as Santosh was just saying, we are investing in electrifying the tracks, together with PRC. And I do believe that we will have a head start with the DFC compared to Maharashtan ports because of the delay in finalizing phase 2 through the state of Maharashtra. So in Gujarat, we will see the benefits of the DFC before they will see that in JNPT.
And just to add to what Jakob said. So the rail product has been our USP, and then we have been doing maximum double-stack trains. So with that ability, we strongly believe that once we have DFC in place, then we should be able to access some new markets, which today are active only by haul. And with that, we are quite hopeful to see some additional volumes coming to Pipavav.
We move to the next question that is from the line of Anuj Jain from ValueQuest.
Can you provide the revenue split by segments, Container, Liquid and Bulk?
Yes. So container is around 70% of the revenue. Bulk is in the range of around 20%, and the balance is around 10%.
And similarly, what is the EBITDA split across the segments?
Sorry, we have not been sharing this by segment. So we don't really give the EBITDA splits by that.
Okay. So which one is the most profitable segment?
It is Container business which is the most profitable segment.
Okay. And going forward, how do you see the split for the revenues in near-term, medium-term, 2 to 3 years?
Well, we expect more or less to be in the same line what I've given now. So we don't expect any substantial change in the split.
Next question is from the line of Prateek Kumar from Antique Stockbroking.
My first question is on realizations. You mentioned realization for Container segment at 5,900 to 6,100, that was for the quarter, I believe. So this compares to around 6,500 [indiscernible], which we have been talking about for like, I think, past 2 quarters -- past 3 quarters, in fact. So is there a disconnect here? We have taken some price or is this mix change or some impact?
So in the past quarter, we have been giving a range of around 5,600 to 5,800 range. In that range, we have been only growing. And so what happened in this quarter as I mentioned in April 2019, we have taken a tariff increase of -- in one-off the [indiscernible] item. So that has helped us to improve the realization. And second is the cargo mix. Because in the earlier quarters and in the past year, we had a higher amount of transshipment volumes, which have gone down.
So I mean, in 2Q and 3Q, you mentioned about 6,500 kind of price realization for container segments. Okay. I'll just have to [indiscernible] that it.
Yes.
But in general, because of volume slowdown expected this year, is there any [ general ] pressure on realizations from competition from JNPT or Adani ports?
No. I don't really -- don't really expect that, because -- so if you look at our tariff, we are very, very competitive as compared to other ports. So I don't think [ timing ] will be an issue for us, and we don't have to really worry about on that front.
Okay. And then you mentioned this IND AS impact of INR 220 million, plus INR 56 million, so INR 276 million. This was for quarter 4 or year as a whole you mentioned?
So INR 220 million was for the full year, and INR 56 million was only for this quarter.
Right. But like the INR 56 million is, I mean, so that means there's roughly a similar impact like last all 4 quarters, but still, like Q-on-Q in operating expense, and the free [indiscernible] around the previous questions. Q-on-Q, there is this sharp drop in operating expenses. Is it due to fertilizer segment as you suggested?
That's right.
Right. And just one thing on your segment-wise volumes. Can you just give a breakup of this Bulk segment for last year Q4, please?
Bulk for last quarter, is it?
Yes, coal, fertilizer and other for last Q4 '19?
So total bulk volume, the breakup is coal, 136,000 metric ton...
Q4 '19. Q4 '19 and up.
Q4 '19, you're looking for? Okay. So Q4 '19, coal was 75,000 metric tons; fertilizer was 387,000 metric tons; and others were 56,000 metric tons.
Okay. And sir, just on DFC. You mentioned you're still expecting by December. So you're expecting a similar time line which you are expecting earlier also? Or are you factoring some delay?
So earlier, it was expected to be almost end of Q3, calendar year 2020. And now it has been delayed by a couple of months, so we expect to be done in the last quarter of this calendar year.
The next question is from the line of Swarnim Maheshwari from Edelweiss.
Sir, 2 questions. First, if you can just tell us what is actually the railway coefficient at Pipavav port? And you did mention that once the DFC commences, it will, of course, change. But in interim, where do you expect this railroad position to be? And the second part is actually on the CapEx side. So we had actually earlier guided for INR 150-odd crores of CapEx. So are we heavy on to it? Or is there some change in the CapEx guidance over there?
So just to answer your first question, it's almost 70% of our volume moves on rail. So I would -- we hope to keep on improving on that coefficient with DFC coming in. So that's the first one. Sorry, I missed your second question. Can you just repeat that?
Yes. Second was on CapEx guidance.
So CapEx guidance remains the same. So we have already initiated our DFC CapEx investment. So that will continue.
Okay. And sir, just one more, if I can ask. So a bulk of our investments would be in the liquid assets. So in this debacle of the rundown on the debt instruments and everything, we have not taken any hit, right?
So we follow a different model at Pipavav. So we have a land [indiscernible] model for this business. The tank farm investment is done by the tank farm operators. So Pipavav Board have not done a direct investment there. Our investment only on the sea side, when we are constructed about the [ marine ] operations.
Yes. And we are constructing also a liquid rail siding, so we can evacuate with the tanks on rail. But the operation and investments in tank farms itself is done by our customers.
Okay. Sir, I'm so sorry, probably you misunderstood. I was trying to ask are bulk of current investments is in the liquid investments, not the liquid cargo investment I was saying, on the liquid products. This is on the current investment. And I was saying that because of the rundown on the debt instrument that you have seen, because of frankly [ in terms of the ] and debacle, have you seen any rundown on our investments as well? That is what I was asking.
No. Not really, because when you say liquid investment, then most of our investment is in a fixed deposit. So we are not really investing any of this liquid instrument per se.
There are so many things that are liquid.
Yes.
The next question from the line of [indiscernible].
Sir, any news regarding the extension fleets from Gujarat Maritime Board? And your current cost of borrowing, if you can highlight anything on that?
Sorry, current cost of?
Borrowing, yes.
Okay. So we don't have any debt on the balance sheet. So we don't have any cost of borrowing, number one. As far as the extension is concerned, that [indiscernible] continues with Gujarat Maritime Board. We are in close dialogue with them. However, we don't have any further update as compared to what we have given in last quarter, because with the lockdown situation, we are not able to really meet them face-to-face. Having said this, we are -- this is overall top priority for us, and then we are continuously [ liaising ] with them on this matter.
Santosh, let me add here that the concession is expiring in 2028. So there is, of course, a little bit of time left in the current concession. But the operations that we have performed over the last quarter, I think, is a very good quality stamp on people at port and the way that [indiscernible] has been operating it. So we, as Santosh say, we are continuing to talk to Gujarat Maritime Board. But we think we are adding a significant value in Gujarat and to India by running a very efficient operation.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that is the last question. I now hand the conference over to Mr. [ Karan Ginodia ] for his closing comments.
Thank you. Thank you, Leanne, and thank you so much, sir, Mr. Jakob and Mr. Santosh. I hope everyone found this call helpful. Thank you so much, and keep yourself safe. Thank you, thank you.
Thank you, everybody, and stay safe.
Thank you. Thank you, and have a nice day.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Anders Capital, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.