GMR Infrastructure Ltd
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Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to GMR Infrastructure Limited's conference call to discuss Q1 FY 2023 results. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded.
We have with us today Mr. Saurabh Chawla, Executive Director, Finance and Strategy.
Before we begin, I would like to state that some of the statements made in today's discussion may be forward-looking in nature and may involve risks and uncertainties. Also, recording or transcribing of this call without prior permission of the management is strictly prohibited.
I now hand the conference over to Mr. Saurabh Chawla for opening remarks. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, and good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I also have my other colleagues on the call. G. R. K. Babu, who is the Sector CFO of the Airport business. Now of course, it's become a pure airport vertical but he handles the minute details of the Airport business. I also have [ Ashish Jain ], who is the IR Head. And Navneet Singh, who heads our Strategic Finance, who has joined us recently. Rajesh Arora is also there. And on the call from Mumbai, we have Suresh Bagrodia, who's the CFO of Operations; and Ashish Jain, who heads Strategy. So all my colleagues are here to answer any of your queries.
So first, thank you for joining our first quarter fiscal 2023 earnings call. As you can see, various countries are facing lots of challenges emanating from high inflation, commodity price shocks, diminishing value of currencies and, of course, monetary tightening that's happening world over. However, India, of course, remains an outlier, a bright spot in this current global scenario. Most economic activity indicators in India remain robust despite the global headwinds and despite the monetary tightening at home.
For instance, services PMI has now grown to 59.8 in June. Our AP growth rate for May '22 is at about 19.6%. Manufacturing PMI is holding steady between 53 to 55 since January of '22.
Coming to our performance of GMI Airports for quarter 1 fiscal year '23. GMR Infra's net revenue increased by 24% year-on-year to INR 1,030-odd crores while EBITDA increased by about 21% year-on-year to about INR 428 crores in quarter 1 fiscal year '23, mainly driven by traffic improvements in our operational airports. Thereby, a net loss after tax has also reduced from about INR 180-odd crores in quarter 1 fiscal year '22 to about INR 113 crores in quarter 1 of the current fiscal year.
Here, I would like to highlight a few key points in our business. We made significant progress in our CapEx programs of Delhi, Hyderabad and Goa. Delhi has achieved about 68%, Hyderabad about 75%, and Goa Airport has achieved about 85% completion as of June 30, '22. As you are aware, Goa Airport is targeted to be inaugurated in August '22, while Delhi and Hyderabad are targeted for completion in September of '23 and December of '22, respectively.
In Goa, we have already filed the multiyear tariff proposal for the first control period, starting from 1st April '23 to 31st March '28, with inclusion of partial period of 1st September '22 to 31st March '23.
In Crete Airport, about 13.2% financial progress has been achieved, with completion of 90% of earthworks in the airport area and 32% towards an external access source as of June 30. We are on track to achieve the completion target as stipulated.
On the Medan Airport, the Angkasa Pura Aviasi, the joint venture company of GMR Airports and Indonesian state-owned airport operator which is under Angkasa Pusa II or AP2 as it's more popularly known, formally took over the operations of Medan Airport beginning July.
On the passenger traffic, Delhi Airport and Hyderabad Airport had exhibited continued recovery of international traffic, which is currently standing at about 79% and 87% of pre-COVID levels, respectively, as of July 17, 2022. As post removal of restrictions on scheduled flights, various international carriers have resumed their operations and [ handled ] capacity to various Indian destinations.
Domestic traffic at Delhi Airport and Hyderabad Airport have recently been impacted by seasonality and, also to a certain extent, by high airfares, which has resulted in traffic being at about [ 58% to 57% ], respectively, to the pre-COVID levels.
However, the long-term growth story remains intact. In our Medan airport, traffic recovery is encouraging as domestic traffic recovered up to 94% of pre-COVID levels and international traffic recurring steeply. Overall, traffic recovery is above 80% in Medan Airport.
In our international airport, Cebu, it continues to be in a recovery phase. Its domestic daily pax is now nearing 60% of the pre-COVID level, while international traffic is still lagging behind at 10% of quarter 1. And that's mainly because the international traffic into Cebu is mostly from East Asia, which is primarily China, Koreas and Japan.
In our Delhi airport, as an interim arrangement, we and the Airport Authority have entered into a settlement agreement on the payment of monthly annual fee with effect from April '22, prospectively. So the worse that you see is after the payment of the monthly annual fee for the last 3-odd months during the quarter.
In Delhi Airport, we have successfully completed the issuance of a 5-year nonconvertible debenture amounting to about INR 1,000-odd crores. The proceeds will be utilized partly to finance the Phase III expansion plan.
In our Hyderabad Airport, we have received a letter of confirmation from the Ministry of Civil Aviation extending the term of concession agreement for a further period of 30 years, that is from March 2038 to March 2068.
On airport land development, in Hyderabad Airport, lease agreement has been executed with Schneider Electric for a lease of build-to-suit facility of about 0.38 million square feet in 2 phases on 18 acres of land.
In Delhi Airport, we have recently, or yesterday actually, awarded the contract to the Chalet Hotels, the owner, developer and asset manager of hotels for developing a hotel at Terminal 3. The terminal hotel will be about 350 to 400 rooms and positioned in the 5-star deluxe space. The development of terminal hotel at T3 will bring hospitality to travelers at the gates of international travel. It will provide significant benefit to transit passengers, both domestic and international.
In Nagpur Airport, the Supreme Court of India has upheld the judgment of Nagpur Bench of Bombay High Court that had previously quashed and set aside the letter issued by MIHAN India Limited annulling the bidding process for Nagpur Airport. Accordingly, the authorities are expected to execute a concession agreement at the earliest at Nagpur Airport with GMR.
Going forward, traffic recovery will be mainly driven by lifting of curbs in airline capacity, addition of routes and capacity opening up with the opening up of East Asia, especially China and Japan.
As per industry experts, the airline fleet is expected to go up by 2.5x over the next 5 to 7 years. New airlines such as Akasa is now getting ready to launch its operations in India, and Jet Airways is not far behind relaunching under a new owner. I believe that Akasa's first flight is expected next week or 10 days' time.
Existing airlines are also adding capacity and flying to new destinations.
On the ESG front, sustainability has always remained a key element of GMR's corporate ethos and strategy. GMR-led airports across the nations are making consistent efforts to maintain ecological and support sustainable development. Our endeavor is to ensure operations are carbon-neutral and, accordingly, we constantly monitor our activities carefully to further reduce emissions. A major milestone was achieved during this fiscal year where Delhi Airport now has started to operate 100% of its energy requirements being met from renewable sources.
The presentation with all financial numbers are already available with you. If not, it can be downloaded from our IR section on our website. We are available to respond to your questions on this call and off-line post the call.
Now I would like to open the floor with my colleagues from the corporate and businesses and answer your questions. Thank you so much.
[Operator Instructions] We have the first question from the line of Abhiram Iyer from Deutsche Bank.
Congratulations on a strong set of numbers in a challenging quarter. My first question was on CapEx expenditure over the next 3 quarters of the fiscal as well as into the next fiscal. Could you just give out individually what those would be for Delhi Airport and GMR Hyderabad Airport and with and without any proceeds from the lease facility as well.
In case of the Delhi Airport of this current financial year, we are expected to spend about INR 3,300 crores. We have already spent about INR 600 crores so far.
And in terms of the Hyderabad, we will be spending about INR 2,000 crores this financial year. With that, the expansion there will be completed.
Sir, INR 2,000 crores will be until December '23, that's your targeted date for Hyderabad?
Yes, December '22 is the target for Hyderabad Airport. But maybe it may take 1 or 2 months more. But by March 2023, everything will be done.
Got it, sir. And this INR 3,300 crores that you mentioned for Delhi, this is before we take into account any proceeds from the lease facility?
Some amount of lease facility also will be used in that. But as of today, it is about INR 500 crores, INR 600 crores of lease facility we expect to use.
Got it, sir. And the second question was on the tribunal case with regards to the Delhi Airport. If I may, what's the current status, sir? When is the next hearing?
And just one quick question. I know we are -- we have said that it's around INR 1,300 crores of payment that needs to be -- that you've sort of mentioned. And you protested around INR 400 crores of payments already made. May I know what the opposite party, AAI, is claiming or is bringing to the tribunal?
Well, the [indiscernible] of our stand was that as per the concession agreement in the [indiscernible], we are entitled in case of the force majeure, we are entitled to exclude from [indiscernible] obligations. So that has already been -- I mean, [indiscernible] believe relevant things they have agreed upon, they have the merit in our argument. They have given us stake on payment of the annual fee.
So for the 2021 and '21, '22 together, we have not paid even [indiscernible]. It's about INR 1,300 crores. However, from 1st April 2022 onwards, we have started taking the payment of annual fee. It is only the issue with now pending for the 2 years, the INR 300 crores.
The arbitral tribunal, all the documentation, everything has been completed, everything has been filed before them. The base have already been provided by the tribunal. In the month of October, we'll be doing the cross-examination of the main businesses. And then after that, arguments, and the judgment is expected by end of December. This is after...
Got it, sir. And the INR 1,300 crores, this is the disputed amount at most, right, sir? I know, obviously, if it goes in our favor, then this will -- then we do have the right of force majeure so this will maybe the deal. But is this the actual amount that is claimed by AAI? Or are they putting any penalties or additional interest or any other charges?
No, in case of the force majeure, as it is, the interest and penalties are not applicable, number one. Number two, the company has not been paying it because of the high court's stay. So that is the second ground. And so far, AAI has not put any claim. They were only asking for the payment as of today.
[Operator Instructions] We have a next question from the line of Mohit Kumar from DAM Capital.
Sir, good to see good recovery in the airport traffic. My first question is by end of this quarter and next year, we can see the Goa and the Hyderabad Airport new expansion adding to our revenue is the right assumption?
Correct. That is the right assumption.
By next year, they will add 2 other airports. Goa and Hyderabad will...
Consolidated.
On a consolidated basis, yes, on a consolidated basis, yes.
Understood, sir. Specifically, what is your outlook on the airport land monetization, especially for Delhi Airport? And where are you in terms of land anticipation of 2.16 million square feet in Delhi Airport for the 2 developments?
2.78 million has already been taken over by the existing [indiscernible]. And we have already discussed Bharti. We have already paid the money in the last year September.
The next 2 point -- 1.2 million, 1.3 million, they are going to take over by March 2023 and we are expecting the payment by April 2023.
The land [indiscernible] so we don't expect any hurdle, right?
We don't expect any hurdles. No, no. Land is already identified -- it is already available in case of the hospitality districts next to it. So there are 2 land parcels have already been identified and the infrastructure needs to be [indiscernible]. So this should not be any challenge.
As a matter of fact, the work has already begun on that -- on the 2.78. It is already with Bharti and they have begun the work also on it. So it's not that something which is speculative in any nature.
And what is the outlook for the rest of the, let's say, 24 months? For the monetization?
At this stage, we are not looking at any further monetization beyond what has already been contracted. So in the last bid, it was a bid which was 5 plus 5. And as you know, in real estate, absorption levels have to be taken care of before further monetizations. We are not contemplating any monetization of further land beyond this 5.5 in the near future. Subsequent to that, we will see what happens. But even in that, now mostly our strategy is going to veer towards our self-development rather than monetization of land.
Our right of [ RP ] for the next $5 million is still available today.
And sir, lastly, isn't cash loss is expected in FY 2023 and how do you intend to fund it? Does this mean that corporate loan [indiscernible] in fiscal?
Which one you're referring to, sorry?
Mohit, can you repeat the question, please?
My question is, is there any cash losses in FY '23? And if yes, how do you intend to fund it? And does it mean the cost rate lower, which is [ INR 19 billion ] at this point of time, will it [ start] by the end of this fiscal?
Just 1 second, Mohit. Yes. So we are -- I mean, the cash losses which are there are very minute as of now as far as Q1 is concerned. And I think by the end of this fiscal year, this will also get mitigated. There's enough liquidity available within the group to manage any of these liquidity mismatches that may be there from a losses perspective.
If I can ask another question. [indiscernible] specific policy enablers you are looking, which will improve our non-aero revenues in the medium term?
It's not clear.
Why is it not clear at all? Can you...
My question is there any specific policy enabler which you are looking at which can improve our non-aero revenue especially on the duty-free side?
No, we are not looking for any specific policy initiatives. Businesses on the non-aero side are quite robust. And in our strategic plan over the next few years, we want to consolidate the non-aero businesses and various entities and manage at the holdco level. That is the way we are going to proceed forward, because as we keep adding a number of airports in our family, we believe that if we can create consumer businesses out of that, then we can change the nature of our business just from the Indian infrastructure company to a more of a consumer-driven company. That's the strategy that we will articulate, we have articulated in the past. And as we go forward, we will implement it. But that's a 3-year journey as we go forward.
But from a government perspective, we are not looking for any specific policy initiatives which may help the non-aero side of the business.
[Operator Instructions] We have our next question from the line of Rushabh Sharedalal from Equirus PMS.
Yes. Yes. Now the first question will be on the DIAL airport. So our presentation on Page 13 mentions that the maximum capacity at DIAL which we can handle is 119 million, so that's like a 12 crore kind of a number annually. Now if I do the rough math of it, considering that there will be 130 to 140 people at the aircraft, on a particular aircraft, my number comes to roughly managing 9 lakh aircraft per annum, which is roughly, roughly almost 100 aircraft per hour. So considering the fact that we presently have 3 runways at the airport and the fourth runway is cutting the third runway, so how will we be able to manage such a kind of number, given the fact that even the best airports in the world manage roughly 40 air traffic management per hour? So if you can just help me get a sense of those 119 million that we want to manage. That will be my first question.
So let me answer the first question. I think your facts are a little wrong. We have 4 parallel runways. One runway is slightly elongated, but it is fully operational. So from an efficiency perspective, it does not put any drawback on the -- at the airport itself. So I don't think your maths will work out if you were to take into cognizance that there are 4 operational runways that will be available. And they can be switched. With a cross taxi way, we'll be able to handle many more aircraft, both from a takeoff and movement within the airport perspective.
Another thing, you have taken an average of 154 passengers. But in case of widebody aircrafts, which we are going to employ, we are getting a lot more. They can carry up to 250 to 300 people average. So number one.
Number two are our [ inside ] capacity, which we are now building up, can take 2,000 movements per day. That is the capacity we are building even today. So we are talking about 119 million, which is going to take up to 7, 8 years. By that time, a lot of technology will also change. And with the existing capacity available, we do not foresee any challenge.
Okay. So basically, just wanted to understand that you said that these larger aircraft, so let's say, if there are 100 aircraft that we are landing, how many of those 100 would be larger? And how many of those would be normal aircraft? If you can give just a rough ballpark number.
No, no, Rushabh, I would request you, why don't you come to Delhi, okay? You come and meet with our technical team. And you see what is happening both on the technology side and what process improvements are happening other than the physical infrastructure that is coming up, that we'll be able to get a much better comfort.
On an average, over 20% are widebody aircraft right now.
Right now, but that is expected to go up because of international travel going up. Delhi is an international hub for India. And hence, our focus is, yes, it's a widebody for all international flights, most international flights. Whereas narrow -- and cargo also, and narrow-bodies for the domestic or regional flights, if I may say so.
Okay. Okay. Just a small question on...
From a mass perspective, you should assume about 30-odd percent of widebody as we go forward, and the capacity being about 250 to 300 seats per aircraft.
All the airlines are moving to 321, which are the bigger aircraft even domestic also, which can carry up to 222 persons.
Okay. And just wanted to know your view on the upcoming Jewar airport. So how are we -- because the Phase 1 of the Jewar Airport, we expect it to commence by 2024 with roughly managing 1.2 crore to 1.5 crore passengers and going ahead in the some 7 crores, 8 crores passengers. So how many passengers or air traffic do you feel that will shift from DIAL to Jewar? Or if not, then how are we actually anticipating the capacities going ahead?
So if you were to assume same maps that you're assuming for Jewar, then we can very easily handle not even 119 million passengers, but much, much more.
But coming back to your specific question, yes, Jewar is going to go live some time in 2024 or '25, it goes live. It really does not pose too much of competition for us because the location of Jewar is a little distinct from the economic centers of Delhi and Gurgaon. Delhi Airport is actually a city airport now. It's right in the -- it's right in the middle of Delhi and Gurgaon, which are the true economic engines of the national capital region. So we don't foresee much competition.
The second aspect is even as the airport starts operations and starts to grow, it will be primarily more low-cost airlines that we have a look at it, serving passengers from the Western UP agricultural belt or industrial belt of [indiscernible] and Agra.
The highly -- what we call paying passengers, if I may say so, will be all catered out of Delhi. Most of the international flights will get catered out of Delhi because that's where the passengers prefer.
So both from a geographical location attribute perspective and also the economic -- underlying economic activity perspective, Jewar has still a long way to go before it can pose any competition for Delhi Airport.
But yes, in 10 years, as the traffic is growing and air travel will continue to grow, Jewar will be a very successful airport at that particular point of time. So nothing to be worried about at least in the medium term for us.
Right, right. And just a small question, if I can squeeze in. So we have shared some amount of revenue with airport operator of India starting 1st April '22. So if you can just quantify the number that we have shared this quarter and the sustainable number that we'll be sharing every quarter going ahead, some ballpark figure, if you can.
The first quarter, we have paid INR 400 crores as a revenue share to airport operator of India by DIAL. So going forward, since the first quarter, we achieved about INR 15.3 million, so INR 16 million. More or less, we'll be sharing the same amount every quarter.
So that will be INR 400 crores every quarter. Did I get the number correctly?
That's what we said, that INR 400 crores this quarter we paid and we are expecting the traffic will be the same for the next 3 quarters. Yes, it is about INR 400 crores.
We have the next question from the line of Anshuman Ashit from ICICI Securities.
Congratulations on a good set of numbers as well as taking over Medan Airport. On Medan, so correct me if I'm wrong, so this will also add to FY '22 full year revenues apart from Goa and Hyderabad, is that understanding correct?
Yes, that is an equity method because in Medan Airport, we are holding 49% stake and the 51% is held by AP2. So they will be consolidating, we will be accounting on equity method.
Okay. Okay. And sir, if you could give us some data on the FY '22 performance of Medan Airport, maybe the EBITDA and the traffic, which was there in FY '22? Would it be possible?
We will share it off-line with you. You can -- Amit will share it with you separately. I don't have it really available here with me right now.
So moving on to the Goa Airport. So you mentioned that there will be an interim arrangement [indiscernible] starting from April '23. So if the traffic assumption that you have made for that interim arrangement and the impact tariffs also be the same as you mentioned in your petition?
No. As far as tariffs are concerned in case of the Goa, we have filed an application for a control period April '23 to March '27. That is -- but the interim period of this 6 months to -- our financial 6 months, we have offered a holdco pay area, which in the regulatory -- in principle, they are examining it, they are finalizing assessment...
Okay. And sir, how do you see the traffic shifting from the existing airport to this airport? How do you see the growth for this Indian airport which is coming, Goa?
There is a good momentum and the airlines are actually asking for these slots, but we are expecting the winter schedule will be started by them. And as you know, there are 5 hours of the block period in case of the existing doubling. So we are expecting that this 5 hours will be the crucial for the airlines and also and we are expecting with amount of the traffic.
As of today, airlines are already requesting for these slots, which our team is already working on.
And are we planning to monetize the land bank over there as well?
Yes. The work is going on in that direction also.
Okay. Okay. Sir, so coming on to the revenue share in Delhi. So in the presentation, an amount of INR 817 crores is mentioned. So you just mentioned that the revenue share was INR 400 crores for Q1. So what does this INR 817 crores comprise of?
INR 400 crores only are in the first quarter.
Sir, in the presentation, so if I look at the Slide #35, revenues -- sorry, yes, that was a mistake on my end. This is different. Okay.
So then a final question on Cebu Airport. So the profit over there -- impact of loss over there has been consistent despite the growth in traffic and revenues. So when do you see this turning around?
So in the first 2 quarter of this calendar year because it was all of the calendar year was a bit low the traffic, but April almost started improving a lot. And this second quarter, June quarter, they will be much better placed. We are expecting Cebu this financial year, they should be able to do more than 60% of the pre-COVID level traffic.
Okay. So probably by next financial, we may see some profits over there.
We cannot comment, but at least it will be able to meet all its obligations.
Sir, one final question. So there was supposed to be a testing of the earnouts of INR 1,060 crores by FY '22 end. So could you tell us about whether that has happened? And where do we stand?
So the earnouts will be -- you see, they were supposed to be tested after the audited accounts or the audited accounts are over with. We are in conversation with [ ADP ]. And it will be settled over the next few months itself. So that's not an issue right now.
[Operator Instructions] We have a next question from the line of Aditya Mongia from Kotak Securities.
The first question that I had was on the capacity front. You did mention 119 million as daily capacity. I wanted to get a sense that if this is today constrained more by the air site capacity. And can this number become larger over time?
Yes. As of today, it was constrained by the air side. Now we are now building up the capacity on the air side, which is will take care of 119 million.
Okay. Can the number be meaningfully different than 119 over time? Just getting a sense from you because I think this is for an asset like Delhi, an extremely important parameter for us to monitor.
The 119 is the capacity we are building. But we haven't -- you can always check it because today the technology and going forward the technology is going to change and the aircraft mix can change. Anything. So because of that, 119 million, basically, we have estimated basing on 2,200 movements per day, the highest movements.
So there should not be any challenge as far as the handling of around 119 million.
And with the spread actually said it can go up to about 140-odd million. That is normally that we have seen in our airports. We've experienced that in Delhi also. We've experienced that in Hyderabad also. So we take into account all that as we go forward. But yes, physical-rated capacity will be 120 with the potential to go up to about 140.
Sure. That's helpful. The second question that I have was this notion that obviously, Delhi will become an international airport at some point of time. You did allude to, let's say, 400-keys hotels coming about at the terminal. As we see through this transition, which are the other things that you need to do for Delhi to start becoming attractive as a hub over time?
Well, I think the best is that if we can offer wide-bodied direct flights to North America and to also Australasia, if I may say so, so Australia and the Far East. These are 2 aspects which will catapult Delhi into a hub similar to a, let's say, hub in Dubai.
What does Dubai offer? It offers direct flights all across the world. It has a great Duty Free and shopping environment at the airport. That's all. I mean for a transiting passenger, he requires these 2 aspects very well, right? And Emirates, which is the main airline service in Dubai, is able to cater to these transiting passengers globally.
So if we have Air India now, which is now in the private hands, catering to similar fashion, and Air India is -- has its home in Delhi. And along with that, in the -- in the low-cost category, if I may put IndiGo as it starts to grow and spread its wings, Delhi has all the attributes to become a global hub over here.
So yes, airlines have to play their role for Delhi to become a global hub. The government policy is very much there now incentivizing airlines to use Delhi as a hub. So our previous policies were more inclined to encourage hub flying from Middle East. That has all now gone. New technology has helped airlines now to shift to direct flights on Delhi, the 777 ERs or the 787 aircraft are flying all over.
So all the attributes are there. And it has -- it is always a partnership between the airline and the airport. We are fully supportive of the airlines. And with Air India now being in private hands, I hope we have the same global aspirations with which that actually that airline started many years back, right? So that is where we are also banking upon them and also on IndiGo.
So we're quite well positioned from that perspective. As the Indian diaspora grows, as tourist traffic within India grows, Delhi will be our main hub that will be servicing both Asia, Europe and the North America.
To add on to that, basically because of the COVID, people are more preferring to have direct flights rather than [ layover ] flights. So that will also enhance the connectivity of the building. They've got distance places, especially in the U.S., now we are connecting more than 80 destinations. And Canada. So that will improve further -- I mean, reduce the dependence on the Middle East carriers and Middle East, and that can really improve.
Understood. And specific to Jewar, both my questions together the capacity is also important. In this scenario that Delhi starts becoming more like a hub, the way you put it, is 30% a good number of wide-bodies because it kind of defines the capacity? Or have you seen instances of airports having a larger proportion also as they become a hub?
No, no, the number will surely go up, okay? Honestly speaking, and this also answers an earlier question by another analyst, I think Mohit asked that question is, how do we compare ourselves with Jewar?
Delhi Airport is going to be an airport which targets the [ creamy ] passengers, international flyers versus the low-cost flying within domestic. So 30% is just a number out of the hat. Our focus is how we can continuously increase that number because that's where the cream lies, right? And that brings in shopping in our airports. So that gives us much better per passenger fee. So airlines are also happy because we are far more efficient. And the hub-and-spoke model that will service the domestic side of it also gets serviced.
So it's a composite strategy. Don't limit yourselves with that 30%. That was just an anecdotal benchmark given because the earlier comment was that we are at -- we are only 20%, right? So we will grow to reach that start capacity, we are gearing up to grow that capacity. So it complements what Saurabh has said, if you look at back about 4, 5 years back, we used to have a lot of [indiscernible]. And still at the moment the ATM need, whether it's an ATR, whether it's a jet, whether it's a bigger aircraft and [indiscernible]. Now almost ATRs are moved out, only widebody and narrow-body have come.
And over a period of time, narrow-body also will come down and we'll have more and more widebodies.
See, narrow-bodies are far more efficient. And I think maybe airline analysts can give you a better answer over there. They're far more efficient if the flight is between 5 to 6 hours, after which it becomes fuel-inefficient. So we need to have wider-bodied aircraft which can fly longer distances for airlines to make money. And that's our focus. That's going to be our focus.
Thanks for providing that much color. The third question is more micro from my side. So if I see the debt numbers of Delhi and Hyderabad inside your overall debt, it seems as if your stand-alone debt numbers are basically going up quarter after quarter. And situation today is such that you have not capitalized on the CapEx that you are doing. At some point of time, interest costs are going up. So it will be useful if you can give us some sense that, let's say, by FY '24 when you start kind of paying the interest cost as well, assuming your moratorium, how are you kind of thinking of funding this thing up? Because today already there are signs that are going up because interest costs keep on piling up.
The issue is, as far as this DIAL is concerned, the debt has not gone up except for [ INR 1,000 crores ] which we have added this quarter. And the total project cost of INR 11,500 crores [indiscernible] growth. And this amount is part of that. And after that, we dilute financing, we don't incur any further debt.
Yes, you are correct that over a period of time once they could defer, when their capitalization is completed, then the debt -- the interest will carry to be penal account. But at the same time, our tariffs will also go up and with traffic also estimated to be 75 million to 80 million, so that will take care of the entire debt servicing. And further monetization of the land and the rising of the RAB will help us out in clearing this, in the repayment of the debt also over a period of time.
So maybe this is not the right forum, I mean we can discuss this later on also. But the fact that you're suggesting that on land, you probably want to kind of not lease out, but actually construct. It just makes the dependence on internal approvals and thus the traffic growth and non-aero revenues a lot more to kind of service our commitments. So maybe later on, if I can discuss the funding part over a 2-, 3-year perspective and whether one really needs to get external support or not would be useful for investors to kind of assess the company. I guess it's a timing call but yes, sorry.
Exactly. It's a timing call. In our modeling, the operations, both at Delhi and Hyderabad, are very much supported. Hyderabad, of course, because it has a very low revenue share. But Delhi also. and Again, it's all a question of what you're assuming, how much the non-aero will emerge, what is your assumption on the traffic. Absolutely, those are -- those can be discussed with us offline. But the optionality for creating more internal accruals through monetization, we prefer to monetize now assets than just to monetize the land. That's the focus which we have now moving forward. And hence, that's why we talked about self-development.
So there are a number of build-to-suit opportunities where we will build for third parties for their particular requirements. And then we can monetize that building into an [indiscernible] or a retail, whatever makes sense or to any solve them or a pension fund, similar to what Bharti has done very recently with Brookfield.
So those are -- that's a strategic call as to how we should be doing. We don't want to leave substantial amount of development profits in the hands of a real estate developer and we have just a land owner over there. We'd rather create value on that land. It is our land and how much does it take to create your own building? It's not a very complicated business. So it's a timing issue, nothing else other than that.
Okay. I'll just kind of end it off with this final question and kind of summarizes most things that you said. Do you think that you will have to choose one of these two things, whether you monetize your land as part of the existing concession or you add more output over time? Will there be a choice that you would have to make? Or do you think you can do both without external funding?
No, no. So adding airports has a very different strategy. And if you look at...
Funding, adding funding perspective. That's common, right? You put in one [indiscernible] or there.
Yes, yes. So even in the funding side of it, if we look at it and clarity will occur over the next 6 months, which I can't really highlight at this particular stage, but our strategy over there is mostly in the brownfield airports. And hence, the equity requirement in those airports will be very minimal. We are not very, very aggressive on greenfield developments, but mostly on the brownfield side. And hence, bringing in operational efficiency and capital efficiency in an airport, that is our forte, and that's where we will be operating on.
So whether it is Nagpur or going forward or Medan right now in Indonesia and maybe many more opportunities that the teams are working on, those are mostly brownfield in nature and hence the equity requirement is going to be minimal, which can be actually funded through internal accruals itself from a group level perspective.
We have the next question from the line of Renjith Sivaram from Mahindra Manulife Mutual Funds.
Yes. Just a clarification. I think in the last call, you had mentioned there are certain -- the revenue share which were not paid during that COVID time and I think we had approached tribunal or the court to get some concession for that along with the other players also. So any update on that? Has that been passed or still yet to be finalized?
I think we have already clarified on the call. I think you have just joined a little late. As far as the 2021, '21, '22, the amount which has not been paid is about INR 13 billion. And '22, 1st April onwards, we have already started paying the annual fee, monthly annual fee. First quarter, we have already paid INR 400 crores.
The matter now which is taken before the tribunal, all the necessary documentation has already been done. And the cross examination, we expect in the month of October. November, the final arguments, and expected to have the final verdict by December or January of this year.
We have a next question from the line of Vipul Kumar Shah from Sumangal Investment.
So what will be our steady-state revenue from lease rentals at Delhi Airport once this second tranche of land is also leased out annually? Can you give any ballpark figure, sir?
Yes. Once we -- 2.78, they've already taken under [indiscernible]. The hotel lease rentals, the company DIAL will receive ease. Existing hospitality districts, about INR 130 crores. And the new one is INR 360 crores. Total about INR 500 crores.
Annually?
Annually. This will be award to the new hotels or new monetization without considering that.
And this revenue is also subject to that 44% revenue share to airport operating?
Yes. As for the existing concession agreement as of today, entire revenue added by the [indiscernible], we pay 45.99%. Only in case of the tariff determination, this revenue cross subsidy will not be done on CPT revenue [indiscernible].
Okay. And secondly, once Goa Airport becomes operational, so what is your assumption? What kind of revenues we can generate annually once it stabilizes the operation?
This is basically forward-looking, but if you look at it -- because it all depends upon the tariff determination of aeronautical revenue and non-aeronautical revenue. So when we go to the full capacity of 7.15 million, we can tax about INR 800 crores to INR 1,000 crores.
We have a next question from the line of Rushabh Sharedalal from Equirus PMS.
Just two small bookkeeping questions from my end. So one regarding the airport land monetization. You already said that 2.78 million has been taken over by Bharti and 2.12, we expect to do it by March '23 and the payment to be received by March '24. Any expected amount -- what sort of an expected amount do you expect to receive from this transaction?
On 2.12 million, we will get another INR 600 crores to INR 800 crores. With regard to ADC and RSD.
Okay. Okay. And one question on the DIAL and the Hyderabad Airport, so our revenues are INR 8.9 billion and INR 2.7 billion, respectively, with EBITDA in DIAL being 2.9 billion and Hyderabad being INR 2.1 billion, right? Just wanted a breakup of this INR 2.9 billion and INR 2.1 billion in aero and non-aero or aero for DIAL and Hyderabad.
In the case of the DIAL, aero revenue is INR 219 crores. In case of the Hyderabad, the aero revenue is about INR 178 crores.
No, actually, I wanted the EBITDA breakup of aero and non.
We do not do aero, non-aero EBITDA. It is a simple P&L account, where we have revenues of aero, non-aero and other expenditure, total expenditure, then EBITDA is drawn. We don't break operational EBITDA for each line.
We have our next question from the line of Anshuman Ashit from ICICI Securities.
Sir, just wanted to know what will be the equity requirement for FY '23 and '24? And I suppose this will be mainly for Crete, Medan and Bhogapuram projects. So if you could just tell us the details, the equity requirement.
Crete, the equity requirement, in case of Crete, there is nothing because Crete investment has already been done last year itself. Medan, it has already been completed in the month of April itself. and Bhogapuram, we are not expecting much. It is only INR 30 crores to INR 40 crores this year.
And sir, what was the amount for Medan?
Medan, we have already issued $13 million, it's about INR 110 crores.
Okay. Okay. Sir, one final question, sir. So we see a significant jump on the non-aero revenues both for Delhi and Hyderabad. So could you please tell us what will be the current spend for that, especially in light of international passengers, traffic also coming in from March onwards? So what will be the current level of spend per pax at those airports?
We can provide offline for that. It is in the presentation, you can see. Slide #18, it's there.
I now hand over the call to Mr. Saurabh Chawla for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Thank you. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for joining our quarter 1 call. The IR team is available for any further queries that you may have. You can take that offline. You can send us an e-mail or return to a call with them. Thank you so much. Have a good weekend. Bye-bye.
Thank you. On behalf of GMR Infrastructure Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.