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Genus Power Infrastructures Ltd
Earnings Call Analysis
Q1-2025 Analysis
Genus Power Infrastructures Ltd
In Q1 FY '25, Genus Power Infrastructures Limited reported an impressive revenue of INR 414 crores, a 59% increase from INR 261 crores in Q1 FY '24. This growth was predominantly driven by robust performance in the smart metering segment, overcoming seasonal challenges and operational delays attributed to general elections. Notably, gross profit margins enhanced significantly to 44.4% from 34.6% year-over-year, bolstered by efficient procurement practices and stable raw material costs.
The company's EBITDA for Q1 FY '25 surged by 121% to INR 63 crores, with a margin improvement of 431 basis points to 15.3%. This milestone reflects the company’s commitment to optimizing operational efficiencies. Despite an increase in employee and operational costs in response to workforce expansion, the profit after tax (PAT) rose to INR 42 crores, doubling from INR 19 crores in the previous corresponding quarter. Looking ahead, the management anticipates variability in gross margins, contingent upon project timelines.
Genus currently boasts a substantial order book valued at approximately INR 21,458 crores, with projects expected to sustain revenue growth over the coming years. The management forecasts revenues of about INR 12,000 crores over the next three to four years from this order book alone, indicating a targeted revenue growth of more than 50%-60% annually. For FY '25, the company is aiming for a total revenue of around INR 2,500 crores, alongside EBITDA margins of approximately 15%-16%.
Additionally, Genus is diversifying its business model by expanding into smart water management solutions, having launched a smart ultrasonic water meter in Australia. This initiative not only broadens its product offerings but also positions the company to meet rising global demand for effective water management solutions. Furthermore, ongoing inquiries from third-party AMI service providers for smart meters indicate a strong market interest.
The management confirmed that execution capabilities are continuously being enhanced, with a current ability to produce up to one million meters monthly. An anticipated ramp-up in full-scale execution, particularly from Q3 FY '25, is expected to drive further growth and performance enhancements. Even in the face of competitive pressures within the industry, the company remains well-positioned, emphasizing that its operational efficiency and established market presence will sustain its competitive edge.
Despite the positive outlook, potential challenges linger, such as the elongation of working capital cycles, especially given the payment structure tied to the 'go-live' status of projects. For instance, initial installations may delay income recognition until the meters are fully operational. Nonetheless, the management is confident in effective planning and execution strategies to mitigate these risks.
Overall, fiscal year '25 appears promising for Genus, marked by substantial order flow, strategic expansions, and operational optimizations. Investors should note the commitment to achieving projected revenue and EBITDA targets while navigating industry challenges. The management's careful focus on maintaining growth momentum positions the company well for sustainable, long-term success in the rapidly evolving metering sector.
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Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q1 FY '25 Earnings Conference Call of Genus Power Infrastructures Limited hosted by Kaviraj Securities.
[Operator Instructions]
Please note that this conference is being recorded. Please note this conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on the beliefs, opinions and expectations of the company as on date of this call. These statements are not the guarantees of future performance and involve risk and uncertainties that are difficult to predict.
I now hand the conference over to Mr. Abhijeet Purohit from Kaviraj Securities. Thank you, and over to you. Thank you.
Thank you. Good evening, everyone. Kaviraj Securities Private Limited, welcomes you all for Q1 FY '25 Earnings Conference Call of Genus Power Infrastructures Limited.
Today on the call, we have with us the management team comprising of Mr. Kailash Agarwal, Vice Chairman; and Mr. Jitendra Agarwal, Joint Managing Director.
Now without any further delays, I would hand over the call to Mr. Kailash Agarwal for his opening remarks, post which we will open the floor for Q&A session. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Abhijeet. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. A very warm welcome to the Q1 FY '25 earnings call of Genus Power. The results and press release are uploaded on the stock exchanges and company website. I hope everybody has a chance to look at it.
Our revenue stood at INR 414 crores, representing a 59% increase compared to INR 261 crores in Q1 FY '24. This growth was driven by strong execution in our smart metering segment despite typical seasonal variance and operational delays due to general elections. We saw a significant improvement in our gross profit margins, which increased to 44.4% from 34.6% in Q1 FY '24. This was primarily due to better procurement efficiencies and stable raw material prices.
I would like to highlight that in previous quarters, many of our newly initiated projects experienced significant start-up cost, which initially led to stub gross profit margins. However, as these projects advance to more mature stages in Q1 FY '25, we observed a considerable improvement in our gross margin profile.
Looking forward, we expect some variability in gross margins across quarters, influenced by the execution time lines of the project. Our EBITDA for Q1 FY '25 was INR 63 crores, up 121% compared to INR 29 crores in Q1 FY '24. The EBITDA margin improved by 431 basis points to 15.3%, driven by our focus on optimizing operational efficiencies and effective cost management.
This is in spite of the rise in employee and other expenses due to our ongoing efforts to expand our workforce and enhance our system in anticipation of fulfilling the substantial order book we have secured. Our PAT stood at INR 42 crores, an increase of 120% compared to INR 19 crores in Q1 FY '24. This growth was supported by higher operating income and improved cost management.
As on 30th June 2024, our total order book, including all SPVs and GIC platform stands at about INR 21,458 crores net of taxes, and these concessions are for 8 to 10 years. Our robust order book positions well -- sustained growth in the coming quarter. We expect full-scale execution to ramp up from Q3 FY '25 onwards. We are optimistic about achieving our stated revenue target of approximately INR 2,500 crores for FY '25 with an expected EBITDA margins of about 15% to 16%. We are well equipped to address potential challenges related to large-scale execution of projects and also to effectively managing cost and meeting financing requirements.
We are also actively investing in expanding our workforce enhancing our system to effectively support the execution of our significant order book. These investments are essential for preserving our competitive advantage in ensuring strong project completion. We have also been receiving a significant number of inquiries from third-party advanced metering infrastructure service providers for smart meters. Although we have received a letter of intent from them, we do not publicly announce the same on account of our company policy, which does not consider LOIs as part of active order book.
In addition to our core business in smart electricity meters, we are expanding our offerings to include smart water management solutions. We recently launched smart ultrasonic water meter DN20 in Australia, leveraging advanced LoRa communication technology for enhanced remote monitoring and efficient water users. This strategic move diversifies our offerings and address the global demand for intelligent water management solutions. We are exploring new opportunities in gas and water metering markets, both domestically and internationally.
Overall, financial year '25 holds great potential for us. We capitalize on our robust order book, strategic partnership, and strong market position to drive substantial growth. We are confident in the company's future prospects, fueled by our dedication to operational excellence, innovation and sustainable growth.
I now request to open the line for Q&A.
[Operator Instructions]
The first question is from the line of Mohit Kumar from ICICI Securities.
Congratulations on a good set of numbers. Sir, two questions. The first question is...
Mr. Mohit, can you be a little more louder?
Is it better now?
Yes. It is much better.
Yes. Sir, first question is how many circles have gone live among the order we have won? And the related question is, in how many circles you achieved financial closure.
Yes. So currently, if you see, we are live in all the 4 projects of our firm. So all the 4 circles of our firm has gone live. We have gone live in -- we have already started execution in North Bihar, and we have already started execution in the couple of packages in Chhattisgarh and for the higher end meeting, we have for SP meters and DT meters, we are already -- project has been started in Maharashtra and UP both. So almost all the projects are under execution now. If you say, go live, go live is achieved in South Bihar and in Assam only. And execution phase has already started in North Bihar, Maharashtra and UPPCL.
Understood, sir.
So almost, you can say like that almost 7, 8 circles has already been live. And regarding the financial closure, the company has nothing to do with the financial closure because it has a back-to-back -- with the platform which the company has made with GIC. So the all financial closure has to be made by the GIC. And I think out of these circles, a lot of circles have been already closed by the GIC for the financial closure.
Is it possible to...
That platform, that platform, yes...
On the -- is it possible to talk about some platforms, on how much money have you issued...
Mohit, can you be please -- louder -- little louder, please.
Is this better now? My question was, is it possible to talk about the platform. In the sense, how much money has been [ issued ] in the platform till date.
That will be really because that numbers will be really, we don't have those numbers, and it will be really difficult to discuss on -- however, we can talk about Genus Power, the listed company.
Okay, but I thought that this is a associate company, that is why I'm asking. My second question is on the -- on the tender pipeline. Can you just show tender -- which are the tender, we would think that, they'll get opened in the next 4 to 6 months?
So currently, the tender pipeline is not very healthy because at 2 stages of the tender, there are many tenders which have been quoted under either they will open up or they have opened up or the discussions are going on. But tenders to be quoted, a couple of tenders in Gujarat, 1 in Goa and a few tenders in Haryana. These are the 3 tenders, I would say, are in pipeline.
The next question is from the line of Rishabh Gang from Sacheti Family Office.
Am I audible?
Yes.
Yes.
Yes. Sir, actually, I wanted to understand, like there are 25 crore smart meters to be installed, right? So just want to get an overall view of how many have been awarded till date across the country to all the players? How many are in the process of being ordered like in pipeline? And how many are yet to be announced?
Just give -- I can give you a very broad-based numbers, that almost 11 crore meters has been decided, and almost 4 crore meters are under different stages, they have been quoted to have been under negotiation, few tenders are under evaluation. So I would say -- I would rate them in the quoted category. So that is around 4 crores to 5 crores meters.
And almost 1.785 crores meters are to be quoted in the next couple of months. So this is a stage right now and remaining, some of the states like Telangana, states like Karnataka, Kerala, lot of numbers are left in the West Bengal. So they have not come out with a tenders yet. So you can categorize this 25 crores into 4: 11 crores, almost have already decided; 4 crores are under -- already quoted; 2 crores tenders are out, will be quoted; and remaining tenders have not come out.
[Technical Difficulty]
I could not hear you. I'm sorry, your voice is cracking. I'm sorry.
Yes. Now, sir?
Your voice is cracking. So can you keep the device stable?
Yes. Yes. Is it audible now?
Yes, better.
Yes. Better.
Sir, on the third party -- the competitors wanted... [Technical Difficulty]
Your voice is cracking, Mr. Rishabh, you can later ask questions you may...
Unfortunately. Yes.
Is it now, sir?
Sorry, it's not good. I'm sorry.
Mr. Rishabh, your voice is cracking. Can we request you to reconnect again in the conference.
The next question will be from the line of Darshil Pandya from Finterest Capital.
Am I audible?
Yes. You are.
Sir, what would be the interest cost and debt position as on date of the company.
Sorry?
Interest cost in debt position of the company as on date?
So interest cost is up around 9%, broadly. And total debt position will be around -- you can -- if we take as a net debt, it will be on 0.
Okay. Then there will be 0.
Sorry.
Net debt would be 0. That's what you said?
Yes. Yes.
What would be the gross debt?
Gross debt will be around INR 400 crores.
INR 400 crores. And are we taking any steps to reduce it because now at this quarter, we are at somewhere the highest interest payment that we have in the quarter-wise. So...
It will be increasing. The gross debt will be increasing.
Any ballpark number that you can give?
Depending on the numbers, whatever the number comes because the company is expecting a revenue of INR 2,500 crores this year and then the further for the next few years also seeing the order book. So there will be increase in gross debt for sure.
So for -- in this scenario, then do we anticipate a fund raise or something coming up in the near future?
No, no fund raise. It will be through the debtors.
Through debtors. And the second question would be, do we anticipate this Q2 to be similar as Q1 that we are seeing as of now and H2 do we have a very heavy quarter?
So Q2 will be similar to Q1 in terms of execution because Q2, generally this period, first 2 quarters are always not as good as last 2 quarters. As we have said in the earnings, in the initial statement also, because of the monsoon the projects always under different speed. So...
Okay. So majority, H2 will be the time that we execute more.
H2, we will definitely have far better numbers than H1.
Got it. And one final question, sir. Do we anticipate any order inflow for this number that you're seeing that you might get these orders?
Yes, we have quoted tenders and we are positive of receiving orders from those.
Okay. Any guidance for FY '26?
Not right now.
The next question will be from the line of Neil Ostwal from Bajaj Finserv.
Congratulations on a great set of numbers. Sir, there were some news reports that the...
Can you be a little louder, please?
Sir, am I audible now?
Yes, yes. Better.
Sir, there were some news reports that the Maharashtra government has put some residential meter orders on hold. So we also have exposure to Maharashtra orders. So do we see any -- are we seeing any impact? Or do we anticipate any impact from such a decision? Or are we aware of anything happening on ground.
We absolutely were aware of what is happening on the ground. So just to reply you on that, as you see the projects, all these projects initially, we have to do the system metering. All the HT meters, LTCT meters and the DT meter has to be installed. If you see the overall RDSS projects, they have to be implemented in this space. Maharashtra has been more particular that, okay, we want to focus initially on the commercial meters on the [ LT ] and DT meters and also on the government connections. And later on, you go for the consumer, metering in a bulk number. So there will be a little bit of impact in terms of speed in the initial days. But otherwise, it doesn't have any impact in the longer run. And except Maharashtra, nobody else in the country has gone for such kind of message.
Understood, sir. And sir, would it be possible to quantify this impact in terms of number of meters, maybe.
So we have around 1.8 million single-phase meters to be installed in Maharashtra. Originally also we would have started only by the month of October-November. As such, I don't see a major impact on the Genus planning due to it. Any which ways, all the projects initially has to be started with the system metering and DT metering.
[Operator Instructions]
The next question is from the line of Chandresh Malpani from Niveshaay Investment Advisors.
Am I audible?
Yes. You are.
Yes. Sir, firstly, I want to understand our working capital days. So since we are moving from supplying to DISCOMs and now to [ AMS ], so what are our working capital days.
So finally, once the projects will be in a proper shape and everything has been properly done, the working capital cycle will reduce drastically. And we hope there will be a working capital cycle of almost 140 days. But right now, as we are in a position of starting the projects. We are just in the initial stage of starting the project. And the projects have to go live. So initially, that takes some longer time. So right now, the working capital cycle is a little on higher side. But finally, it will be at a level of 140 days around.
And sir, secondly, we were -- L1 is about INR 11,000 crores worth of orders in last quarter. So any update on that?
There's no immediate update. Negotiations are going on. So we have -- the process is going on, I would say.
We are still L1, we can say?
Yes. Yes. Once declared L1, is L1. That is not a guarantee of the business. We are following the process of the tender.
Okay. And sir, lastly, we see that on India level, the execution run rate, machine run rate is 6 to 8 lakhs. So sir, what would be Genus market share in those installations?
Can you repeat, monthly -- what I?
So sir, as per government data, the monthly installation trend suggest that India is installing 6 to 7 lakhs meters a month.
Okay.
So just trying to understand what would be Genus market share?
In terms of installation of meters?
Yes, sir.
Currently, if you see, we're installing around 2 to 3 lakh meters every month, and the government data is more on the once it goes live. So there are a lot of meters which are getting installed and they take some time in going live, 45 to 60 days. That is why that mismatch of data will always be there. I would recommend all my friends from the investor community, not to follow that. It will only confuse you. There is a gap between going live and installation.
Okay. 2 to 3 lakhs would be the current figure for the year.
Yes, currently, right now. Yes.
The next question is from the line of Nikhil Abhyankar from ICICI Securities.
And congrats on a good set of numbers. Sir, during the pipeline, you did not mention Tamil Nadu. So are we not expecting any tender from Tamil Nadu this year?
Tamil Nadu tenders came long back, and Genus did not quoted in those tenders. So that is why we don't see them as our pipeline as AMISP. Definitely, once they get decided, we see them as a meter manufacturer, as an opportunity.
Right. And sir, since most of our contracts are fixed price, how are we actually protecting ourselves from any adverse price movement?
Generally, historically, if you'll see the business Genus has been -- is always a fixed price context in earlier contracts, which we have been doing from last 2 decades. All our meter supply contracts were never less than 12 months to 18 months, sometimes up to 24 months.
So if you will see, most of our work will happen in 27 months, all the supply and installation has to happen in first 2 years from the date the contract is signed. So we follow the same process of whatever the safety we used to do when we were supplying meters. We are following the same process. And in our experience of 20, 25 years in metering industry, we have not seen any major impact to it. Even during the COVID, we did not see any major impact due to it.
Okay. And sir, on the equity infusion of around INR 1,700 crores in the platform. So do we have any schedule for it? How much will be this year and how much will be next year?
So that is -- next this equity infusions will be in around next 3 to 4 years. So this year, I think it will be hardly 40% or 25% of that.
20%, 25% of that. So will it be purely from debt?
It will be not purely from the debt. It is already company. Company is sitting on a cash of almost INR 500 crores, INR 600 crores.
Okay. Okay. And sir, just a final question. So can you give us the number as to how many meters have we supplied in Q1? And did we book any O&M revenue for this quarter?
Right now -- often, I don't have the number of meters supplied. So I don't want to comment on that. Yes, for O&M, in Assam, since we have already gone live, so almost 80,000 to 90,000 meters are already live. So O&M revenues have started flowing in.
Sir, how much will...
But that's a very small number. That's a very small number.
And that's a very small number.
[Operator Instructions]
The next question will be from the line of Srijan Sinha from Future Generali Life Insurance.
Can you hear me, sir?
Yes. Yes, Srijan.
Sir, I just wanted to understand a bit on the gross margin part, I mean. As the other participants was talking about, there has been significant increase in the gross margin over last couple of quarters. Is it only because of the procurement efficiencies and the stable raw material pricing? Or is it also flowing in because you have started booking some bit of O&M revenues or the annuity revenues.
See, it is not because of O&M revenues, that is very, very less. It is basically because of the efficiencies and once the quantum is increasing, it is getting better.
Okay. So I mean, on the O&M part of the business, let's say, having 2 years, 3 years out when it becomes fairly large. On the O&M part, how big would be the gross margin? How much can we make on that?
It will be -- earlier also, we have always maintained. It will be quite similar, a bit better from the supply. Because one thing we all have to understand in these -- in the business of AMISP, the meters which we are installing right now, which go live in let's say 45 to 60 days as per the process. Immediately, the O&M starts. It's not that O&M will start after 20 months or 27 months of the installation is completed.
So the meters, which like I was saying 90,000 meters are already under O&M in Assam. So these meters have already gone live and they are already under O&M. So O&M revenue has started flowing in. So it is very different. It is not an AMC kind of a business that we have installed the equipment and now O&M is the AMC revenue. Here, the O&M revenue starts immediately once the meter is installed.
I understand that, sir. I mean from a margin perspective, would that be let's say 1.5.
That is why I'm saying the margin-wise also, it will be almost similar or a bit better once you get into a stage where only O&M is happening. Let's say, 3 years down the line, we have 40 million, 50 million meters under O&M. So a bit better, but not any significant change.
Once the scale will come in annuity. Once the scale will come, so that -- there will be certainly a benefit of scale in O&M also.
And I mean sir, I'm trying to understand, if you -- let's say, you get [ INR 15 ] per meter per month, what would be the typical cost involved in that? Because in my understanding, a lot of that should be flowing directly to the EBITDA.
That's fine decision. But it's very difficult to give you the numbers on that. That will be a little -- we normally give the total numbers only. We don't give it separately on O&M or whatever the supplies are there because that also is a little confidential always so that how we work, how we participate in our tenders and all.
Okay. Fair enough, sir. Sir, my second question is, except the Rajasthan order that we are -- L1, is there any other order where we are L1. What is our current L1 position ex of Rajasthan?
Except Rajasthan, we are L1 in one of the reverse auctions, but they are not yet declared. So I would say, beyond Rajasthan there's one project in Punjab, where we are L1 after the reverse auction. But everything is under process. I won't say...
How big would that be?
That is around 1.8 million meters.
1.8 million meters. Okay. And sir, I mean, you also talked about the [ LOA ] from other AMISP. That is not yet in your current live order book. Again, any sense on the size of that or size of that opportunity.
Just to give the idea, somebody else I think also asked this question when his line got disconnected. Currently, in our total order book, we have -- we differentiate our orders between [ LOA ] confirmed POs. So from different AMISPs, we have confirmed purchase orders of almost INR 1,500 crores as on date. So when I say this order book of [INR 21,500 crores]-odd order book, it includes the confirmed POs.
And we have our LOAs worth INR 700 crores, INR 800 crores further, from these AMISPs, which we never include in our confirmed POs.
Okay. Fair enough.
So that is how we differentiate as a company. This has been the practice always. LOAs are never taken in part of confirm order book.
Okay. Fair enough. Sir, my final question is on the revenue guidance that you have given for this year. Since you are saying that Q2 will broadly be in line with Q1, the asking rate for H2 is very, very high. I mean, mathematically, that was to about, let's say, INR 850 crores per quarter for Q2 -- Q3 and Q4. Are we looking at a 4-digit number by the end of this year? So is the exit rate going to be closer to the 4 digit.
So we maintain our guidance of INR 2,500 crores, which was given in the last quarter. I'm very confident that, yes, that will be achieved.
Okay. Sir, any slow-moving orders in our order book, where the [ position ] is not as per your expectation?
Currently, no. All the orders are in their starting phase and things are in the right direction.
The next question is from the line of Pinkesh from Profitgate.
Yes. Actually, I wanted to -- I have 2 questions. The first one is regarding the backlash that has been going out at Mumbai. Some of the [ activists ] are -- they have some problems with the smart metering or they have the apprehension that this onetime upfront cost will be recovered in the fine of hikes. So I just wanted to know from the company, like would it impact this smart metering project in the state? And how would it be going to affect the Genus Power?
Second question is regarding the annuity O&M. Can you please give more color on that?
So earlier also, same question was asked. In -- except Maharashtra, as such, we are not seeing any problem across the country. And we have to understand one thing, smart-meter is very useful for the consumer also. It needs to be explained properly what I personally feel.
Just to give you a ballpark number. Right now, in India, almost 5 million smart meters are installed in Bihar. We all can imagine, in a state like Bihar, the consumers of the Bihar have accepted smart meters and not from -- and they are -- most of them are on the prepaid. So 90% of the meters in Bihar are on prepaid, 90%, 95%. And the consumers are supporting the journey. So if the state like Bihar can do so well, I'm pretty sure, slowly, gradually, everybody will understand the benefits of it.
Apart from Bihar, one more state, which is doing very well is Assam. Almost 2 million smart meters are installed in Assam. So you can imagine how this state, which are so -- in comparison to Maharashtra, I would say, their GDPs or their development will be lesser. Still, they are doing so well. Slowly, gradually, everybody across the country will understand the benefits of it from DISCOM to consumer, everybody will be benefited from a smart meter. So there's no looking back on that.
So I'm 100% confident that I don't see any challenge. Yes, there can be hiccups at some pockets, which needs to be handled properly.
In terms of O&M annuity, as I said earlier also, O&M, in these businesses O&M starts immediately after the go live has happened. So once the installation is done, within next 2 to 3 months, practically you are doing O&M parallelly along with the installation. So O&M in full swing, I would say, all the meters like, say, 30 million, 40 million meters Genus has done in the next 3 to 4 years. And then the O&M annuity will be a fairly large size. And in terms of EBITDA and all, it will be little better than what we currently see when installation is done.
So are we including this annuity on O&M fee that we are receiving into the guidance that you have provided for the current year. And...
It will be every year because whatever the O&M -- even in this quarter, whatever O&M company has received, will be part of the...
Total revenue. It will be a part of total revenue.
It will be part of the total revenue.
Can you just give color of this whole O&M. The size and opportunities little bit?
Can you repeat, sir?
Can you give us whole scenario, what is the quantum of the opportunity this annuity is? Is that, that your installed smart meters you'll have to do -- take care of the O&M in that or you can do O&M for the other companies install...
Currently, we are -- no. As per the AMISP contract, whoever is installing the meter has to maintain it for next 10 years. 10 years is a total contract period from the day it starts. So I don't see any opportunity for doing it for others in the current stage of business.
The next question is from the line of Milind Karmarkar from Dalal & Broacha.
I just wanted to know at a steady pace in the next 3 years, what kind of margins can we expect, EBITDA margins?
So currently we're maintaining the same guidance of 15%, 16%. We don't want to give any other guidance currently.
The next question is from the line of Tushar Sarda from Athena Investments.
I have 2 questions. One, you mentioned that after L1 negotiations happen. So I wanted to understand how the ordering happens? I thought with L1, it's a matter of time before the L1 gets converted to confirm order.
And second was, when do you get paid? Do you get paid from AMISP, when you install the meter or after go-live?
First is a regular tendering process. There is nothing new in this. The different state electricity boards have different written down processes and same is followed if you go for reverse auctions, if you go for a discussions, which would be -- regular thought. Nothing is different for RDSS. On second question, we are paid after going live.
So there is, therefore, their working capital cycle gets elongated, right?
In the initial stage, because once you install the meters in the initial stage, they are first -- going live takes more time. And once it is on the regular path and the going live time also reduces.
[Operator Instructions]
The next question will be from the line of Karan Sharma from Sharma Securities.
So I have couple of questions for you. So first one will be, could you outline the expected time line for executing the current order book? And also what are the projected order inflows for FY '25 and '26?
So current order book, all these contracts, what we have taken are mostly finalized in the month of Jan, Feb, few in the month of December or March. So all these contracts have an execution period of 27 months. And we are confident that we will stick to the timelines and achieve the given timelines. So accordingly, you can see for the next 24 months, most of these projects will be completed in terms of execution, what we have currently in hand.
Okay. So second will be in terms of our execution capabilities, where do we stand in terms of our capacity to fulfill this massive order book?
So in terms of manufacturing, we have always been intending that we comfortably produced 1 million meters monthly, so that is absolutely not a challenge for us. In terms of execution, we are continuously building our capability and which is visible in our last quarter performance also. And it is only going to get better. And we are on track in terms of execution and pretty confident that we will be able to meet the timelines as per the order book.
Okay, sir. And the last one will be, as you mentioned earlier, I wanted to follow -- I wanted to follow up on the progress of Guwahati plant capacity addition. Can you provide an update on this?
So that plant capacity enhancement is under progress, and we expect it to be live by the end of September.
The next question is from the line of [ Samarth Khandelwal ] from ICICI Securities.
Am I audible, sir?
Yes.
Sir, I just wanted to understand how the things are happening at the ground level. Earlier, you had given a guidance talk about installing 6 million to 7 million meters in this FY '25. Are we still on track? Or are we seeing some hurdles to that?
Currently, we are on track, and we maintained the guidance at around 6 million meters should be installed in this financial year.
The next question will be from the line of Tushar Sarda from Athena Investments.
Your order book is INR 21,500 crores. So is that your order book or that is for the AMISP?
So this order book is currently -- has different -- broken up. So if you'll see out of this INR 21,500, crores, INR 19,000 crores is from the platform. And remaining is directly -- which we get from our different customers, export customers or different supply orders -- so this is how -- these are breakers and this INR 19,000 crores is platform. It gives almost 70%, 75% comes back to Genus. So since all these SPVs are still not moved to the platform, that is why it is seen here like this.
So my follow-up was, if it's a INR 21,000 crore order book, which has to be executed in 2 years, then -- and this year, you are guiding INR 2,500 crores, so next year...
I want to correct it, sir. INR 21,500 crores is the current order book. Out of that INR 19,000 crore is -- AMISP. And when I say INR 19,000 crores is on the AMISP, out of that 25%, I'm giving you a rough ballpark number so that everybody is clear.
Out of that INR 19,000 crores, ballpark figure is 25% goes to -- 25%, 30% goes to the platform. 25%, 30% goes on the O&M which is after the project is completed -- or runs for 6 to 7 years, and almost 40%, 45% is to be executed in the next 24 months. From there like this we will have to break it...
Sir, 2 to 3x of current year's revenue, right? I mean if we just do a very rough calculation.
I don't want to...
I'm just trying to understand the order book.
Yes, let me clarify you on this. So first, when we say 24 months, you have to understand that when the order we have received. And once we have received the order, there is a time period to sign the contract. It takes sometimes from 3 to 6 months to sign the contract. Once the contract is signed, then the execution period starts, which is 27 months.
So when we say the completion of this whole order book in the next 24 months, that means once the execution has started -- that is 24 months in that. So if you calculate on the basis of that, this whole order book will be completed by the end of '27 financial year or it may go up to '28 also, something into financial year, '28 also.
So basically, the whole order book and when we say the total order book of INR 19,000 crores or INR 20,000 crores, initially next 3 to 4 years, it will come 60% to us only, which is 60% is for the installation and supply of meters.
Then comes the O&M business, which will be lasting for next 8 to 10 years. And remaining 20%, 25% goes to the platform, which is financing the whole -- this AMISP project. So basically, in that way, you have to understand that it will take next -- by mid of '28, you can say that this whole order book will be completed.
Okay. No, no, I understand, then I'm just trying to see. So next -- basically next 2, 3 years, we'll see substantial growth, if not 100%, maybe 50%, 60% per annum because you'll receive more orders also, right, during the year.
Yes, yes. Correct.
The next question is from the line of Ravi Shah from [ Opal Securities ]. Mr. Ravi, you're not audible. Can you come a little bit closer to the speaker.
Yes. Yes. Am I clear now?
Yes.
So basically, my first question would be what is the potential for revenue growth over the next 3, 4 years? I mean you just said it's 50%, 60%, but given that like most of the old meters are being phased out in favor of smart meters, what kind of growth does the management expect.
So basically, as I explained in the last question also, when we say 60%, right now of the current order book, broadly there will be a revenue of INR 12,000 crores in 3 to 4 -- next 3 to 4 years. Then additionally, there will be revenue of meters supplied to other AMISP. And then there will be some revenues coming from the O&M also. So put together, you can see there will be a growth of more than 50%, 60% every year. I don't want to give a right guidance because it changes, we would like to give the guidance for next financial year -- next quarter for sure.
And in fourth quarter, we will give further, '27 also. But broadly, you can say in next 3 to 4 years, these are the numbers, which will be distributed.
Got it, sir. Sir, my next question would be, would you be able to provide additional information regarding our strategy towards gas and motor metering going forward?
So on the gas meters, we have been playing the role in the current market in India, which is -- I would say, it is not growing the way we were expecting it, but it is not small also. So it's like a typical non-AMI single-phase meter that kind of market size, I see in the gas meters in India.
For water meters, we are starting this journey, and we've got a very good break in Australia, which is very -- which gives us lot of confidence in terms of product and capability. And India is purely electromechanical based water metering. So what used to be the case 20, 25 years back for electricity meters where the every electricity meter in the country are electromechanical.
Same is the case of water meters in the country currently. And one of the very large major disadvantage of the electromechanical water meter has been that accuracy is always being challenged and they also take air pressure sometimes. So there's a lot of work happening on water meter to become electronic. And once it because electronic, the government from the day 1 wants to make it smart electronic so that the data is also available from the day 1. Water becoming more and more scarce, we see this as a pretty large opportunity, not only in India and in our different international markets also.
Globally, sorry, continue please.
So Genus is focusing quite a bit on the water metering segment. Don't want to put again any numbers on it currently. But yes, we see this as a very potential opportunity. And India market also becoming fairly large in next couple of years. A lot of work is happening on the water metering side.
So addition to JK, I will only say that company is preparing itself for a new product. We see that globally, there will be a huge, huge scarcity of water. We already see that. Even the city like Bombay faces the water scarcity and all. And for smart metering in electricity also, we started talking 5, 7 years back. So this is just the beginning for water meter. And it will be a huge, huge market seeing the scarcity, and it will be a global problem of water. So we see a big, big market for that.
Understood, sir. Also, one last basic question would be, what would be our tax guidance for '25? What is our expectation over here?
Taxes, we are in a regime of 25% tax, whatever is that, you will be on that.
[Operator Instructions]
The next question will be from the line of CA Amit Kumar, who is an individual investor.
Congratulations for a good set numbers. And could you please guide about the breakup of like INR 21,500 crore, how much is for meter and how much for the installations and how much for other set of O&M and others a little bit of guidance that what you provide them.
Just to give you an idea about it. Out of this INR 21,500 crore, INR 19,000 crores comes from the AMISP platform where we are doing the complete end-to-end solution providing. Remaining comes from our different orders of AMISP meters, where we are supplying export orders and meter installation and meter part.
So out of this INR 19,000 crores, as the guidance was given earlier, that initially, you have to break it in 3 pieces. 25% -- these are all very rough guidance that 25%, 30% goes to the platform, 25%, 30% is on the -- what you call O&M, which will let say, this 25%, 30% of the O&M starts after 27 months of the installation and 40% revenue comes from the initial to 27 to 30 months. This is how you have to break this order book of INR 19,000 crores.
Okay. And then previous question was like, you told that 25% of market.
I cannot hear you very clearly.
Can you hear me?
This is better, sir.
Yes. In previous question, you were saying that 25% of this order book is related to platform. So does it mean that, that 25% amount will go to platform, what again is the interpretation.
Yes, yes. That 25% of the amount goes to the platform.
And we will execute and we will pay the amount to platform and -- what -- after 1 year, for 2 year, what will be like the cycle for that.
No, no, it's not that, you are just getting confused. All the orders which company is getting is transferred to the platform. And platform is giving us back-to-back sale for supplying of meters, installation of meters and O&M. So remaining whatever the finance cost or other cost is coming, that is being in the platform only. And this 20%, 25% is the part of that.
Okay. Sir, we are not able to pay anything to platform. Is that correct?
No, no, no. We are not liable to pay anything to the platform. Platform, it is just a way of understanding that total INR 19,000 crores order book is transferred to the platform. Out of that platform will transfer back the orders of meters, meter supplies, installation, O&M to the company. So the company revenue will be coming on the basis of that. That 20%, 25% revenue will not be coming to the company. It's being associate of as to the company, 26% is hold by the company. That portion will come from the company.
So technically, we can say that 75% of this current INR 21,500 crores order book will be recognized in the financials of Genus Power. Is that correct?
Yes. Yes. We will be recognizing Genus Power and the remaining -- it'll be 26% only.
The next question is from the line of Chandresh Malpani from Niveshaay Investment Advisors.
Sir, I just want to understand the competitive intensity in the industry. We see there's newer players entering with a sizable capacity and giving the targets that they will install this number of meters. So just your comments on the competitive landscape?
I don't see any change in the competitive landscape from last 6 to 9 months, it's almost similar. So there's no comment on that. It is almost similar.
The next question is from the line of [ Saket Saurav ], who is an individual investor.
So sir, you mentioned that in Bihar, around 8.5 million smart meters are installed. So out of which, how many are installed by Genus right now?
So I said almost 5 million smart meters are installed in Bihar. Out of that, 2 million meters were installed by EESL and that also we have supplied meters, not installed by us. If you ask only purely how much meters Genus has installed, so we have installed around 6.5 lakh meters.
Okay. And sir, what is the potential of number of the smart meters in Bihar because the population is quite large and households are...
For Bihar, Bihar is completely ordered all their smart meters and currently, I would say, almost 10 million more meters -- 10 million to 12 million more meters will be installed in Bihar in the next couple of years.
Okay. So sir, why I was double clicking that, there is a news regarding meter companies and senior bureaucrat, some corruption allegations. So does that, in any way, slow down the implementation or impacts company like ours. So just wanted to be clear on that.
No. The work is going on in full swing in Bihar and they are the most aggressive board in the country in terms of the smart meter installation.
Operator, would like to take the last question, please.
Sorry?
Would like to take the last question.
Yes, yes. That was the last question, sir.
Okay. Then that's great. Yes.
Yes. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Kailash Agarwal for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Thank you, dear friends for joining this call. The progress we have made in this quarter reflects our strong execution capabilities and the strategic initiatives we have undertaken. If you have any additional questions, please contact SGA, our Investor Relations advisers. Thank you very much. Thanks a lot.
Thank you, everybody. Have a good day. Thank you.
Thank you, sir. On behalf of Kaviraj Securities, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.