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Genus Power Infrastructures Ltd
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Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Genus Power Infrastructures Limited Q1 FY '24 Earnings Conference Call.
This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on beliefs, opinions and expectations of the company as on the date of this call. These statements are not the guarantees of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict.
[Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded.
Today on the call, we have with us Mr. Kailash Agarwal, Vice Chairman of Genus Power Infrastructures Limited; Mr. Jitendra Agarwal, Joint Managing Director of Genus Power Infrastructures Limited.
I now hand the conference over to Mr. Jitendra Agarwal, Joint Managing Director of Genus Power Infrastructures Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. A very warm welcome. I have Mr. Kailash Agarwal also with me on this call, Vice Chairman, with us; and SGA, our investor relations adviser. The results and investor presentation are uploaded on the stock exchange and company website. I hope everybody had a chance to look at it.
In brief, in financial year '24, we have secured some good orders in the excess of INR 4,400 crores net of taxes. Our total order book now stands in excess of INR 8,200 crores net of taxes. The execution cycle of these current order book, all the installation work will be done in the -- 24 to 27 months, so it provides a very healthy visibility for our top line growth for financial year '24, '25. Many SEBs have initiated the process of inviting [ bids ], and the RDSS can be expected a modest order inflow to continue throughout the remaining financial year.
In July 2023, we signed definitive agreements with Gem View Investment Pte Ltd, an affiliate of GIC Singapore, for setting up a platform for undertaking AMISP concessions. Genus Power would be the exclusive supplier to the platform for smart meters and associated services. In May '23, the company had signed a commitment letter with the United States International Development Finance Corporation to obtain a loan up to USD 49.5 million to scale up the deployment of electric smart meters across country. Our working capital cycle is expected to improve going forward as the results are better, and going forward, most of the business will come through either the platform or AMISP. The Bihar project is on track, and revenue inflow from this project started the reduction [indiscernible] expected to commence by quarter 3 financial year '24.
Coming to quarterly results, the sales of Q1 FY '24 stood at INR 261 crores, up by 39.6% as against to Q1 financial year '23 revenue of INR 187 crores. Though the supply chain disruptions for semiconductors and other essential electronic components have been showing indications of improvement in comparison to the previous quarter, the lingering impact is still affecting our top line performance due to suboptimal capacity utilization. Our Q1 FY '24, EBITDA stood at INR 29 crores, up by 99.7% as compared to INR 14 crores in Q1 FY '23.
Our operating margins recorded a decline due to the predominance of legacy orders in first quarter, which yielded lower margins. We anticipate that the existing backlog of legacy orders to be mostly executed by quarter 2 financial year. Operating margins are also impacted on account of lower capacity utilization. PAT stood at INR 19 crores for quarter 1 FY '24 as compared to INR 0.6 crores in last quarter 1 financial year.
As the supply chain for semiconductors and other crucial electronic components is quickly getting resolved [indiscernible] as disclosed in previous conference call, we expect a record total revenue of around INR 1,200 crores in the financial year. The Indian metering industry will see strong order inflow, healthy top line growth, higher operating margins and an improved working capital cycle going forward. We are confident of significant improvement in our business operations from quarter 3 financial year '24 onwards.
We are now open -- we can now open the line for Q&A. Thank you.
[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Nikhil Abhyankar from ICICI Securities.
Congrats on a very good set of numbers. Sir, apart from the INR 82 billion order that we have, are we sitting on any other elements?
Yes, we are present in other states. And so we are sitting on other elements.
We are. And sir, this INR 22 billion order that we have won, it is for which state, sir?
It is from Maharashtra. The [indiscernible].
Okay. And I guess, Maharashtra, there have been more such orders coming in. I think the tenders have been recently floated, right?
So the tenders are floated with 3, 4 months back. Most of the tenders has been decided. And we received our share of that. And still, some are pending. And still, some are pending.
So we -- I've got a number. Can you just correct if it is wrong? Total spread -- total orders that are under bidding right now stands somewhere around INR 50,000 crores, a ballpark number.
If you see the ballpark number because tenders are already quoted is around INR 40,000 crores. So we participated. Again, there are -- the tenders were INR 28,000 crores, INR 29,000 crores are already in the pipeline, which will be quoted in next couple of months.
Okay. And we expect to participate in all of them?
Not each one of them but most of them.
Most of them. Understood, sir. And sir, you're saying that the margins -- Q-o-Q, the margins were a bit lower because of certain legacy issues -- legacy orders. So what -- can you just quantify how much of this legacy orders are still remaining?
In terms of value?
Yes.
So around INR 400 crores to INR 500 crores orders are still spending, which will be completed in next 2, 3 quarters. So that number will reduce significantly.
So basically, here, we have to understand that in first quarter, the over -- the legacy order was almost 70%, 80%. So now that number will start reducing to 20%, 25%, 30% in coming quarters. And this -- the new orders or the AMISP orders, that will start reaching to 70%, 80% and, in 2, 3 quarters, maybe up to 100% or not.
Understood. So by -- H2's EBITDA margin will be far better than 15%. Am I right?
Yes, there is no doubt in that. Yes, most of the things will be over the -- legacy orders, the old legacy orders and the new also that -- so basically mix and all -- so other -- the second quarter, there will be a little challenge in the margins like this. It will be better than this quarter. But from H2, it will be absolutely fine, the [indiscernible].
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of [ Mehta Mohuta ] from [ Credit Info Edge ].
Yes, sir. So my question was -- first of all, congratulations on a great set of numbers. And the question was that out of the current order book of INR 8,200 crores, what percentage is in your legacy orders? And what percentage is the smart meter will be first question.
Second of all, what is your run rate in getting the bidding on the platform that you have bid in for till date? So those are my 2 questions, sir.
So in terms of percentage, as I said earlier, around INR 400 crores, INR 500 crores are the legacy orders. So it's around 4,000 to 5,000 orders are the legacy orders. Most of the new orders are all AMISP [indiscernible] orders.
So you can say 95% is the new orders of AMISP, which is still purely totally smart meters, and 5% is the old legacy orders.
Understood. So sir, can you just quantify that legacy orders? And what kind of margins? And smart meters would have what kind of margins?
So basically, now the legacy orders is hardly 5%. That would not be affecting, in any way, the margins of the company. But as I said that in the first quarter, most of the execution was of the legacy orders, and still, the company made approximately EBITDA of 11%. So broadly, you can say that, that type of margins there in the legacy orders.
And you're bidding run rate, sir?
I would like to understand it better. What do you mean by bidding run rate?
So like, for example, if you have, say, bid for 10 tenders, out of that, how many tenders have you received?
Exactly, we have not concluded it, so very difficult for me to comment on it.
Yes, that's what I'm saying right now. We don't have that number. That's exactly what percentage is our success percent. We'll let you know in next meeting or something, the next con call and all.
And this kind of results, sir, do you think going ahead, which will go on improving quarter-on-quarter or on a yearly basis? It's sustainable?
Quarter-on-quarter, it will improve. It will improve, no doubt.
And year-on-year also, it's sustainable, sir?
It's sustainable?
Absolutely. While we are saying that it will be improving on quarter-to-quarter, it will be sustainable for a yearly basis and the coming years also.
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Abhishek Verma from Fidelity International.
Just can you, sir, please provide the breakup for your order book between your own AMISP orders and where you would be providing meters to the other AMISP and any conventional meters order that you might be having?
[ Breakup, so I won't be having -- offering ] with me. But most of the orders are smart meter -- order will be in -- large number of these orders are from our own AMISP. And much smaller number would be from the meter orders, which we will be supplying to different AMISP. So roughly, how would that be...
So here, I would clear -- one thing I would like to clear that basically, the other AMISP orders are coming in the market. The people are getting the orders, and they are in the market to procure the orders and all. So [indiscernible] giving the orders for the supply of meters. So basically, right now, the most of the numbers in INR 8,200 crores is from our own AMISP. A very small number is from meter supply to other AMISP and all and then the legacy and all. In coming quarters, you will see that the number of supplying meters to other AMISP also will increase in good numbers.
Okay. And why is that not gaining traction currently? Why the numbers are on the lower side?
Because most of the AMISP have not decided the orders yet. It will gain a tremendous traction in next couple or so.
So they have just got the order, and they are now working themselves, [indiscernible] the meters and all. So they are taking time to procure meters from the market. They have not finalized the orders in market.
Okay. And how has the market share trended in overall smart meter? Because I have a sense that it's roughly around -- somewhere in the range of 25% to 30% is what my understanding is. So if you can help with that.
I can say is it will be very, very healthy, right? Not putting any number won't be possible for us. It will be a very healthy market soon. [indiscernible] leadership position.
In last question also, we clarified that. Right now, we don't have the numbers exact, that what is our success ratio and what is our run rate. We can't provide you. Certainly, it won't be at the level of 25%, 30%, but we will be keeping a leading position. Keeping a market share of 30% in a market size of INR 4,000 crores, INR 5,000 crores and keeping a market share of 30% in INR 200,000 crores or INR 300,000 crores or -- that is a big difference on that. So 100%, we cannot keep a market share of 25%, 30%. But we will be the leader as we will be earlier. There is no doubt in that.
The next question is from the line of [ Vihang Subramanian ] from [ Saba Capital ].
Congratulations on a good set of numbers. I missed some of your opening remarks. Could you highlight how many of the orders are already quoted? And how many more do you expect to be quoted over the next few months?
As I said, around INR 43,000 crores, around INR 42,000 crores, INR 43,000 crores tenders have been quoted, which are currently live. And around INR 27,000 crores will be quoted in next 2 to 3 months. So these are the number of tenders which are already being published. So some are quoted. Some will be quoted.
Understood. So out of this total INR 70,000 crores broadly, like what is the win ratio you think one can reasonably expect for us?
Again, a very difficult question because all INR 70,000 crores we won't be bidding. INR 70,000 crores is a very large number. But we will maintain our healthy share at AMISP. That is what I can say.
Understood. Sure. And I think previously you had mentioned about INR 12 billion to INR 14 billion revenue for FY '24 and a multi-fold jump in FY '25. Given we are some -- given we are one quarter ahead now, would you be able to share some more specific numbers around what could be the kind of jump that we can see in FY '25?
So we would like to maintain the same statement that this year, we are giving you guidance of [indiscernible] INR 1,400 crores [indiscernible], and we are very, very confident of achieving this in -- we would like to maintain the same statement that we will have a multi-fold jump from next year.
Here, I would like to add that company is sitting on an order book of INR 8,200 crores, which we have to supply next 24 to 27 months. We have to complete the projects. Company has already participated in lots of tenders. Company has already -- has won in few of the tenders also. And company will be supplying a lot of meters to other AMISPs also. So by this, you can understand that what type of jump we can achieve in the financial year '25.
Right now, we don't -- we are working on that. We are just making the numbers and all. That's why we don't want to give exact numbers on that for '25. Surely, we will be giving that number in next quarter after quarter 2 and all. But it will be a multi-fold jump. That much, we can say. And that you can judge also from the order book, the pipeline -- the other pipeline is coming. That gives a clear sense of that, that in how many months you have to complete the orders, everything gives that we have [ sensed ] also.
Sure. And just the last question from my side. I just recall that you mentioned right now that we can't possibly maintain market share of 30%. But what is the threshold level below which you wouldn't go down of market share?
Again, let me answer. That's again a tough question. Right now, as we told that we are working on that, that how much we can execute, how much is our capacities and all. So on the basis of that, we have already -- we are participating in the tenders. We earlier also, we have told that for the platform we have made with GIC, we are already working on a business of INR 30,000 crores, 3 crores meter type of [indiscernible]. So if we [ stage ] 3 crores meters, that's the next 2 years and 3 years, and the total is almost 30 crores meters. So almost [indiscernible]. Absolutely, we won't be -- would like -- we will not be going below that 15% or something like that. But exact numbers, that's still on -- working on that.
So you mentioned that your target is to install 3 crores meters out of 10 crores, right?
Yes, we told that, yes.
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Chandresh Malpani from Niveshaay Investment Advisors.
Congratulations on such strong order book, sir. So my question is basically on the raw material side. So what portion of your raw materials are domestically sourced and imported?
So 60%, 65% of the raw material is domestic. [indiscernible]
Okay. And coming from this question only. So secondly, on the relay, that is like important part in smart meter. So do you see any -- like any challenges on securing relays, or like India doesn't have that much capacity with the smart meters actually require. So your comment on that, sir?
So we are not facing any challenges regarding relay. There's a lot of capacity being built in India and internationally also. It is available comfortably so we are not [indiscernible].
Okay. So you can source import internationally also, you are saying?
We can always import the components that it is a lot of capacity getting built in India, and mostly it is definitely in India, but we're not seeing any challenge [indiscernible].
Okay. And sir, lastly, on the margin side, like you said that your legacy orders are [indiscernible]. So now since the realization on the smart meters are almost like double or like more than the at least traditional smart meters, so where do you see this number going forward? Your outlook on the margin, sir?
So margins will be definitely getting better. We have earlier also given a guidance, but by the end of this financial year, we should be better than -- or we should be exactly [indiscernible].
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Nikhil Jain from Galaxy International.
Two questions. One, there was a significant INR 19 crore other income in these quarterly results. If you can just help us understand what was that one.
And second is related to the smart meter. So we said earlier that we are allowed from the contract perspective to go ahead and supply meters to other participants. From a strategic perspective, do you foresee or think that there might be a little bit of reluctance from those other AMISP vendors to source meters from Genus given that we also are a direct competitor with them? There are 2 questions.
So first question, let me answer this. Jitendra, second, will you please answer? So basically, whatever is the other income is -- we -- this company has a treasury of different bonds and all. So it is really from the fair market value [ as in the other ] debt and bonds and all, and the equity sales and all.
So on the second question, I'll give you a different perspective on that. There is a third process where you are absolutely right. A lot of people will say that, yes, they are our competitors. Does it make sense for us to procure meters from them? But the AMISP market is so large, and all these AMISP providers, for them, the most important is the technology part. I'm seeing a different trend currently. There are these AMISPs providers are the big, large corporates. They think that Genus has the best tech. Well, Genus is the only company which is doing the AMISP themselves. So their investment [indiscernible] of the technology. So there will be more [ project to protect ] technology and the customer than most of the meter manufacturers who are not doing the same work.
So rather we are -- I'm seeing this as an advantage, so most of the large corporates are closely connecting with us. We should be there [indiscernible]. So as such, I'm not seeing any challenge where they see us as a competitor, whereas I'm seeing it as an advantage that we are the better partner in this journey.
Okay. And just a follow-on on that. See, given that -- let's assume that we are targeting a market share of 20% from our AMISP, so there is balance, 80%, which is available. So on those balance, 80% of the AMISP orders, which we will not get, can we maintain our market share of less around 25% that we historically have? So that gives you another 20% for the meter side. Is that a fair or a reasonable assumption?
I would -- again, as we said earlier also, I would not like to put any numbers on the market share. But yes, it will be very, very healthy, and we will be a very strong player in the market for supplying technology to the AMISP providers. That is what we would like to maintain [indiscernible] getting on to the number. And we will have to see our own capability, absolutely.
Right. But you said that we can increase our capacity with a small CapEx, right, shortly in 4 to 6 months in our earlier calls?
So we will maintain the same thing, and then we require to increase our capacity, we'll do that. So we are very positive about the outlook.
And increasing capacity is not at an issue. We didn't say that. But that needs the execution also, a lot of execution also. So there should be a capability of execution also that we have to see that how much we can take and how much we execute.
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of [ Mukesh Aster ] from [ Moonshot Ventures ].
First of all, congratulations for the good set of number. Now sir, I have 2 questions. My first question is that, recently, we have won many of order from -- on TOTEX more on -- through AMISP. From our understanding, sir, shall we making only single-digit margin going forward?
Sorry, we could not understand your question. Can you please come again?
Sir, I am saying that we -- our Genus Power is only required 60% of revenue conversion from the AMISP order. In that, we have continued to maintain our margin going forward.
Yes. We will -- we have already said that we will be improving our margin. And in this financial year, we will be reaching back to our pre-COVID levels, which are 15%, 16% of EBITDA and all. So we have already seen that here.
Okay, sir. Then next question, sir, how does billing works for AMISP? Is there any performance guarantee parameter linked to cash flow disbursed from [ discount ] to AMISP?
Sir, there is a full RDSS document, which is linked to many things. So it is linked to [ SMA ] also. So this [ level ] agreement that we signed with the electricity board, the payments are secured through the direct debit facility.
Okay. And sir, it -- so there is one more question is that what is the failure rate of the floater installed till today?
What is the failure rate?
Yes, yes, yes.
Failure rate has been very, very low. These are all high-tech products and closely being monitored by the rating companies. I am not seeing a major problem as on this. [ There's ] no problem [ as well ].
Okay. And sir, we are giving any performance guarantee to AMISP for meter failure?
So we have to provide performance [ by ] guarantee to all our customers.
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Nikhil Abhyankar from ICICI Securities.
So basically of the INR 30,000 crores, 60% will come to a stand-alone. And after that, for [ O&M ], how -- what will be your annual [ O&M ] revenue from all these orders after -- once they are executed?
So that will be depending on monthly revenue. We will be agreeing on project-to-project basis. That will arise from a project-to-project basis, but it will be for 3 crores say. When we are talking about INR 30,000 crores or 3 crores meters, so after -- it will be for 3 crores meters.
It will be for 3 crores meters. Okay.
It is for 3 crores meters not, INR 30,000 crores. [indiscernible] confused with the numbers.
Yes, yes. At that's 3 crores meter -- for 3 crores meters. And also, sir, so if I get my math right, once you execute INR 18,000 crores of order book in the next 2, 3 years, and let us say we make an EBITDA margin of 15% net of tax, we'll be left with somewhere around INR 2,500 crores. Of the INR 1,700 crores, we have to [ pertain the SPV ] over the next 2, 3 to 4 years, right? And 26% of that [ fixed ] income -- annuity income, we'll keep on getting after that for the next [ 90 ] months? So it is too early to ask I know, but what will be our plans with that INR 800 crores of cash?
That's too early, Nikhil, to ask. Number one, let us make that INR 800 crores, and we will plan, number one. And number two, this INR 30,000 crores or 3 crores is just a ballpark figure. So we are not saying that we will be doing [indiscernible].
See, again, I'm saying the last time, don't say INR 30,000 crores, just 3 crores. These are all meters...
I understand that earlier. The total figure we are giving is a ballpark figure, yes.
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of [ Mehta Mohuta ] from [ Credit Info Edge ].
[indiscernible]
Sorry to interrupt, [ Mr. Mohuta ]. We are unable to hear you. The line for the current participant has dropped off. [Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Nikhil Jain from Galaxy International.
So just wanted to, let's say, have your thoughts on capability building within the organization. So given all these large opportunities that is coming, which will start to -- or which has started to materialize now, so on-ground execution, obviously, and that too in different states, and different parts of the country is going to be very challenging. So I just wanted to hear your thoughts on how you are preparing for that and making the organization ready for this future growth.
Very, very valid caution. And absolutely [indiscernible] 2 good things here that we have positioned. If we are doing something which we understand, right, in terms of technology, we know what we are getting up to and what we are getting into. As a project execution company, again, we know we have done projects in the past. So we have -- as a company, we have done ECC projects and almost every nook and corner of the company, so we know the nuances of that also.
So these have been the advantages, but at the same time, as you rightly mentioned, this is the real thing, the execution since we are putting our full time and efforts and focusing on it. And very, very confident the way we are building our capabilities and the way we are building our organization, we should be in a position to do a smooth execution and should be able to execute it to the best [indiscernible].
Okay. So are you hiring more people or more managerial staff? Or how is it like?
We have been hiring people for different projects at this [indiscernible] all across. So a lot of management bandwidth has been increased in the last few months, few years, and that will happen in the coming [indiscernible].
The next question is from the line of [ Sanjeev Naik ] from [ Naik Investments. ]
Congratulations, sir, on a very good set of number. My question is very simple. Like is there any export opportunities available like to the countries like Bangladesh, Middle East or Africa?
We are currently also exporting our products. And since last year, how much -- we are again back to our pre-COVID levels. So we are -- last year also, we did an export of closer to INR 100 crores, and we'll maintain that run rate in this year and further grow. So we are maintaining our focused exposure on the export. We have been doing that in the past, and we will continue to sell in the future.
The next question is from the line of [ Mehta Mohuta ] from [ Credit Info Edge ].
Yes, sir. So in...
The line for the current participant has dropped off. [Operator Instructions]
If nobody's in the queue, can we close the call?
Sure, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Kailash Agarwal for his closing comments.
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. We, as a company, are in a very good position, and we can assure you that in coming times, we will be giving you more firm numbers about the guidance, about the order book, about the shares and all because we are already working on that. And so rest assured that in coming quarters, you will be getting a better picture about the company and all. Thank you.
Thank you, members of the management team. Ladies and...
Thank you, everybody.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Genus Power Infrastructures Limited, that concludes this conference call. We thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.
Thank you, everybody. Take care. Goodbye.