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Entertainment Network (India) Ltd
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Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Entertainment Network India Limited's Q4 FY '20 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Diwakar Pingle from E&Y, Investor Relations. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Nirav. Good afternoon, friends. We welcome you to the Q4 and FY '23 Earnings Call of Entertainment Network India Limited. To take us through the results and to answer your questions today, we have with us the top management from ENIL, represented by Yatish Mehrishi, CEO; and Sanjay Ballabh, EVP Finance. We will start the call with a brief overview of the quarter and the year gone past by Yatish, which will give you a broad highlight of the business trends and what is observing in the market. And post that, we will open it for the Q&A session. The discussions that we have today may contain forward-looking statements relating to future events and future performance. Numerous factors could cause actual results to differ materially from those forward-looking statements. The company undertakes no obligation to update any forward-looking statements to reflect developments that occur to the statements made. With that said, I'll now hand over the call to Yatish. Yatish, over to you.
Thank you, Diwakar. Good evening, everybody. On behalf of Entertainment Network (India) Limited, I welcome you all to our Q4 and FY '23 earnings call. This is my first interaction with you all after taking over the current role at Mirchi. It's been 6 months since I've returned, but I'm happy to share that I've spent almost 11 years at Mirchi in my previous stint. Prior to coming back, I served as a Chief Revenue Officer at a leading apparel company. Moving on to the quarter gone by, the headwinds faced by the media industry post-festive last year continued even in quarter 4, impacting overall ad spends in the Indian economy. This has resulted in a muted advertising spends across all mediums, be it television, print or even digital. Large event sponsorships have dried out in the market, and we've seen major events not happening in quarter 4. Inside the radio industry, if you look at, the ad volumes have grown at 11%, while Mirchi has again outperformed the industry by growing at a much healthy 16.7%, leading to a strong volume market share of 23.9% in quarter 4. If you see ENIL's in numbers, existing business without digital, we have grown at 2.3% with an EBITDA of INR 23.2 crores, giving a margin of 22.9% and delivering a PBT positive quarter with INR 6.1 crores in Q4. If I were to look at on a full year basis, we have grown at 31.1% with an EBITDA of INR 93.3 crores, which is almost 88% growth in EBITDA, at a margin of 22.6% and delivering a PBT of INR 19.6 crores before exceptional items. As you know, we look at our business in 3 vectors: digital, solutions and radio. So let me start with digital first. We continue to invest and remain focused in growing the segment. Our investments have been very strategic in nature because we formally believe digital is essential for our future growth and aspirations. We have invested -- in line with that, we have invested INR 7.2 crores in quarter 4, adding up to INR 26 crores in the full year FY '23. I'm very happy to share digital revenue from all our business segments for the year was INR 33.6 crores, which is almost about 12% of our radio revenues in line with our aspiration to have digital contribute to 25% of our radio revenues in a few years' time. The next is solutions business, which has shown exceptional growth both on revenue and margin on a full year basis. Solutions has grew at 33.5% to overall revenue of INR 115 crores, which at a very healthy margin of 34.3%. And finally, radio, we have grown at 35.7% to INR 296 crores, consolidating our leadership position by gaining almost 300 basis points in FY '23. Coming to our international business. We have rationalized operations in San Francisco as we have shared earlier. Our focus remains to drive overall profitability in the international market. We have closed San Francisco. We are in negotiations with relevant authorities in Bahrain to renegotiate our contract terms to make it more feasible. We remain very confident to all our other international business in New Jersey, Dallas, UAE and Qatar, which are independently profitable and are also growing on revenue. Overall, we are encouraged by the fact that our international business, even after losses in San Francisco and Bahrain in the quarter 4 has delivered a positive EBITDA during the quarter. At overall company levels, if I look at operation expenses, we continue to remain focused on running efficient operations. This year, we delivered a savings of INR 53 crores over FY '20 operating expenses. Our balance sheet remains very strong. Our cash reserves have grown to INR 265 crores as of 31st March and at a consolidated level at INR 282 crores. To summarize, I'm very pleased with the ENIL performance, which has been ahead of its peers across radio and with other mediums, both in quarter and full year in this challenging times. We are satisfied with improved volume progression in radio. The client advertisers' numbers coming back on radio business. Our solutions and digital business are tracking as per plan. The company will continue to invest in digital arena to strengthen our future. With this, I'll conclude my commentary on the performance. And once again, thank you for joining in and listening to me patiently. I'll request the moderator to move towards the question and answer session.
[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of [ Deepan ] from [ TrustLine PMS ].
Good evening, -- so firstly, can you provide the split between the solutions and digital and platform for the quarter 4.
[ Deepan ], any other question also? I'll just note down?
Yes. So other question, how has been the platform business doing? So what is the kind of metrics we have added over the previous quarters in terms of monthly active users.
Okay. So to give you your answer on digital, the digital content solutions, we've done about INR 10 crores. Digital platform is almost about INR 7 crores, and digital components in other segments is about INR 16.56 crores, totaling to about INR 33.57 crores.
Okay. how do you say the digital platform is INR 7 crores, is it?
Yes. We're just starting that -- that's what we said, we have just started up our digital platform business.
So last quarter, they did INR 1.8 crores to the same we are referring is now at INR 7 crores, right?
Yes. This is a full year basis I'm saying.
No, no. Quarter 4, I need...
Quarter 4, while I answer your second question on the platform side, our [indiscernible] are about [ 4.6 million ] on both M-Ping and the platform. So if you look at -- at the [indiscernible] , it's about [ 4 million ] and a [ 0.6 million ] on the app.
On the quarter numbers, the digital content solutions, we have INR 2.25 crores; digital redom INR 3.34 crores; and digital components and other segments is INR 2 crores; totaling up to INR 7.7 crores.
So the platform alone, how much it has done?
3.4 crores.
[Operator Instructions] Next question is from the line of [ P Suresh ] from [indiscernible] Financial.
Your takeover from Hyderabad-based company -- it is the cash deal and the stocks...
I'm sorry, [ Suresh ], I think you are mentioning some other company?
No another company, sir. Your takeover from other Hyderabad based to [indiscernible] company, ENIL takeover.
You're mentioning about Spardha, which is Poona-based? Spardha? Not takeover, invested in Q3 in Spardha, not in Q4.
I'm sorry. Yes, sir. It is a cash deal or stock...
It's a cash deal. It's an investment.
Investment. How much stake we have in that company? Stake, how much?
I'll ask Sanjay, our Head of Finance, to answer this.
Mr. [ Suresh ], thank you for asking this question. First of all, this investment happened in Q3 of the last financial year, and it was a cash deal. And all details of this investment has been uploaded in the NSE and BSE sites. However, for your ready reference, we have invested approximately INR 7 crores to get about 11.5% of the equity.
Sir. One another question, sir. Actually, ENIL is continue -- loss making before -- after corona. Next year financial year, will be -- it is profitable?
So Mr. [ Suresh ], this is company policy not to provide any future guidance. And we are sorry, but we'll not be able to give you any kind of revenue or EBITDA guidance at this moment.
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Subrata Sarkar from Mount Intra Finance.
Yes. Same question from my side. First is on the radio business, you have grown by 13%, I'm talking about Q4, so...
Your voice is coming a little muffled. Can I request you to speak through the handset?
No, no. I'm speaking through the handset only. So am I audible right now?
Yes, Subrata.
Yes. So first question on the radio side basically. So you have -- I'm talking about Q4. So we have seen a growth of 13% on the radio side. So if you can give a breakup like how much because of like increasing the volume and how much is the pricing because -- and what is the pricing change? And if you throw some light on the pricing issue because whatever I have understood, like we are still way below the pre-COVID in terms of pricing. So if you throw some color on this and like how you are seeing this environment to build up. This is one thing.
Now another thing, like in terms of ad revenue, I'm talking about radio, so like if you can highlight like what is our government -- what percentage comes from government spending? And are we -- because of the election and -- the next election, are we anticipating a buildup on that side? This is the second question on the radio side.
Now coming to the non-radio portion, that is our non-FCT as well as digital. So this quarter has been really, really muted in terms of non-FCT and -- which is just again the trend which we were experiencing until last quarter, like there was some improvement, like I'm giving you data. Like this time, if we leave up at the digital part, like events and all those things, they have done really bad. They're really -- things have not fired. So is this a one-off? And particularly letting -- if you see the full year result, that has improved and we were seeing some traction on the events side.
So is this a one-off? Or like we are still anticipating this kind of a muted environment and response from that part of the business. So the -- and last, in terms of digital, like how -- we have spent INR 7 crores this year. So what is your plan to spend next year in the full year? What kind of expenditure we are planning to make on the digital side? And on the accounting aspect, like would we use all those expenditures directly we will charge on the P&L or we will -- like we will capitalize it to some extent? Those are the initial questions, if I can come to..
Thanks, Subrata -- 4 were too many, even though they are initial ones. So let me answer one by one. The first one you asked me the price and the volume. Yes, the growth has been volume-led. But happy to share that the price has bottomed out. We have seen a marginal increase in price, which I would not term very major. It's about -- almost about a percentage increase in the price. But it's largely volume-led. Our capacity utilization has improved by about 12%. So it's a volume-led growth.
To give you perspective on future, I believe it will continue in the first 6 months the same. In media, generally, the pricing changes in festive and when the demand is much higher. So I don't see in the next 2 quarters the price going up very, very differently. And it will be volume-led growth. And being as a leader and with headrooms available, we believe it will give us a good market share also and consolidate our position. Price could be in the second half of the year. So that's the first one.
The second is on government, you asked me. The government contributes about 10% of our volumes. Yes, you are right, when elections happen -- when general election happens, generally, the business from government goes up. So we believe in the second half -- and not just second half, central government, but with the heavy state elections calendar also, there is about 5 state elections, there also the business will also go up. So we do expect government business contribution in this year will go up, as has always been in the last year of central government. So that -- we believe it will go up. Right now, it is 10.4%.
The third is on non-FCT. Yes, you're absolutely right to bring this, that the event business has been very subdued. Though on a full year basis, we did really well. If I was to give you in the solutions business, there's only one element, the way we define solutions business. The event business has not fired, but other than event business, which is the TV properties business has not fired, which there are large events like Mirchi Music Awards in different languages. We were not able to do it because there has been a very, very subdued environment in the market or sponsorships.
To give you a perspective, if you look at any large award in the movie awards or large music concerts, they have not happened in Q4. Be it -- to give you certain names is the large events, Filmfare, IIFA was postponed. Supersonic was a loss-making event. So a lot of these large events have not seen traction, which are 1-day sponsorship events.
So barring that, if I was give you some numbers, our solutions business without the TV property, it is a large chunk in Q4, has grown 82% for us. So that's the business we have seen in the solutions business. So we're very confident that the solutions business will continue to grow. We believe this is one-off because of the global recession pressure and the overall advertising sentiment have been a bit subdued. It remained in Q4 like this.
But going forward, in the next half, we believe post Diwali, this should come back, and we will be having the same numbers. So to answer you on the TV properties, I believe it is a one-off quarter for us like that.
On the digital, I'll ask Sanjay to answer. But just to tell you, yes, we believe we will continue investing in digital the next year also. We believe that's important to be future-proof on the market. And we will continue in the same line. We have always been very patient spender. We got like a [ VC ] funded where we just want to burn money. But we are a very -- we have a [indiscernible] strategy where we go very, very specific and very strategic in nature investment we do.
So in line with what we have invested between INR 25 crores and INR 30 crores, we should invest in the same manner next year also. Regarding the capitalization, I'll ask Sanjay to answer this one.
Yes. So Subrata, what happens that whatever we invest in digital part of the business, we charge up everything, whether it is creation of content or otherwise, everything to the P&L in the relevant month and quarter. We do not go the capitalization route at all.
Okay. And sir, will we continue to do so, sir?
Yes, we will.
And we have seen traction also, Subrata. If you look at our numbers, what are the projected numbers for ourselves in the first 6 months, just in 6 months if you look at. So it's not been a long there. It has been 6 months. And if you look at digital, it's always the investment goes initially, and then you see a hockey stick type of returns coming in. So we started seeing traction. We have just opened up on advertising on our own platform, and we firmly believe it will deliver our expectations in the coming years also.
Great, sir. Just 2 questions. One on the non-digital business solution, side? Sir, do you think that -- please correct me if I'm absolutely wrong. But is this -- you have mentioned other cases also. So is this related to the hyperactive advertising scenario in the sports and IPL scenario. So is it hampering the, number one, our kind of a business in terms of sponsorships? And if so, do you think this is more of a timing issue like in dealing -- like once that get over or, let's say, in other quarters, I mean those events are not there, we may get back to the normal level. This is one on the FCT -- non-FCT, non-digital side?
And second, sir, on the digital side, if you can express -- throw a little more color, like how we are thinking of like monetizing it? Is it entirely advertisement or we have thought of some different model? So anything on -- if you can throw some color on the -- like how would you like to monetize the digital asset of our company?
Okay. So let me answer you first on the non-FCT part, which you said. Yes, this year has been a tough year. If you look at all industries in media, it's dependent on other industries how they perform because the other industry spend on media. Media is also 1 category spends on media. But all categories, if you look at Q4, has been very subdued. So the marketing spend goes down when the markets are -- when all industries are not doing well. So we are dependent on from that perspective.
So I would put it across to the global fears of recession which were there, which didn't impact India largely. But there were certain fears in people then at that time, tightened their purses to spend. So I believe Q4 became -- is that reason. Otherwise, I don't see it happening every time. We are not -- this is the first time in 14 years we were not going to do it. So I feel also been in the same time. So it's nothing to do with sports, that this type of events don't happen. Sports and entertainment, both are bread and butter for Indian consumers. So they look at both the events very differently. So I don't think either of the least, I would say, they complement each other.
So I would not be worried about the sports investment happening, and that's the reason the investment spends have not happened. It's largely with the overall market, the sentiment. So that's on your FCTs, I have answered it.
The second on the digital thing, as I said, it's a combination of revenues what we do. So there are key things that platform -- and you own a platform, you get consumer data, so we can monetize on those basis. You put up stories. It could become subscription, it could become advertising-funded. So it's a combination of strategy. And also in our social media assets and everything going up, our solutions business also help -- gets helped by this social media assets. So our revenues from solutions also increased.
So I would not say that had once adding -- it's a mix of 3, 4 things. Last quarter, we also spoke about our audio inventory platform, M-Ping, which also gives us additional revenue. So our digital is a very cogent strategy which covers both revenue from the platform plus advertisers also.
The next question is from the line of [ Ansh Manek ] from Equirus Securities.
Sir, with respect to the radio revenues, if we want to compare the realization to the pre-COVID level, what would be the discount level?
That's about -- [ Ansh ], about 35%, right, on the quarter basis, And though -- and it's compensated by the increase in volume, which is 36%. So the volume and price have complemented on these lines.
Okay. Got it, sir. And the second part, sir, we understand with respect to Q4 trend regarding the headwinds for the advertising spend. If you can share the outlook for -- the outlook [indiscernible] the month of April, so it could be really useful.
[ Ansh ], general, we don't, as Sanjay had also mentioned before, that we don't provide guidance. But to give you perspective, it's been in line with expectations.
Okay. And the third part was with respect to the capital allocation. So we have a healthy cash balance. So if you can share the capital allocation part.
So can you be more precise with your question?
Sir, I understand that most of the cash may be used for the investment purpose, right? So whether the investment would be in the business of radio or more towards the solution-based business.
Okay, [ Ansh ]. So the entire cash balance currently as we closed the year, stands at INR 265 crore. And as you know, that radio as a business is always front-loaded in terms of heavy CapEx investment, which the company did. Now we are at the very sweet spot of being in the middle of the 15-year term. Most of our stations have just covered 7.5, 8 years of the license period of the current license regime.
Coming back to your question. Basically, our capital allocation will be completely guided by the company's investments into the digital space. That is any way the new stream of the business coming up. And we expect to invest similar amounts which we did in the last year, our financial year. And other than that, our overall working capital management is going to be tighter
We are collecting -- gets better. We, in fact, collected thus far better than we did the last couple of years in FY '23. And therefore, you can expect some kind of decision coming out of the management of the company in coming quarters. Though we are not in a position to give you the right details of that -- or intricate details of that, but there are a lot of discussions happening in the company within about the allocation of the cash we have in at.
Next question is from the line of [ Samir ] from [ Prince ].
I just want to understand that currently what loss we are having of other businesses or discontinuing businesses? How long this will continue? And how much is yet left to write off?
So let me take this question, [ Samir ]. Basically, the impact you are seeing in our current year financial about the exceptional items that represent losses we have faced in international business, nothing related to domestic operation at all. So let me tell you that based on the conservative accounting assessment in line with our auditors' assessment as well, we have taken the entire hit in the FY '23. That amount stands at INR 17.78 crore. And currently, we do not expect any further value erosion in terms of net worth to happen in FY '24.
So if you look at, [ Samir ], both domestic and international. Even in international business, whatever we have closed on, has happened in FY '23. We don't foresee anything in FY '24. So I don't see any further losses in existing business happening.
Got it. And any chances of an uptick in the prices of our radio business? I mean you ad revenue, I mean increasing that or relatively stable in [ FY '24 ]?
[ Samir ], as I said, I was answering earlier also, in media, it's not like other industries have increased price any month. It generally anyway the volume-driven things. As the volume -- as the demand increases, you can always increase price. And generally, this happens in media when the prices go up just before the festive period. That's when the demand starts. So I would say early second -- end of first half, early second half is when it starts looking at. So generally, the first quarters are not where the pricing goes up.
So I would be a bit wary to say that the price might go up in quarter 1. It will remain -- happy part is that we have now bottomed out in the last year. We have gained price in the quarter 4, though marginal. And we believe that the story is going to go up.
Very happy to see a lot of clients coming back. The clients are much more than they were at pre-COVID levels. So the client attraction to the medium is there at all-time high. The volumes are at all-time high.
Yes, price remains a concern for us. But I believe it will take a few years to go back to the pre-COVID level. It's not going to happen only this year. It will happen over a few years. And to start with, it might happen in the second half of the year.
[indiscernible] volume headroom. So if there is money on the table, I would rather have play the volume and then not let go to revenue in the current situation -- in the current market situation.
Got it. Just the last question. Are you working to reduce costs accordingly because the prices are stable or not going up?
Yes, that's a continued thing, be it, even if the price was going up, we are very, very clear on running very efficient operations. As I mentioned in my opening remarks, we have saved almost INR 52 crores against pre-COVID levels. So it will continue doing that. And we keep innovating. Anything which COVID has -- the only positive the COVID has helped us to relook at our all models again. So we keep inventing, reinventing our wheels, thinking how do we start business -- how do we do business today and making our operations more and more efficient. So as we said, in FY '23, we saved INR 53 crores, and that will be a continuing thing even in FY '24. We run a very tight ship.
Next question is from the line of [ Shekar Mundra ] from [indiscernible] Commercial.
I just wanted to understand what would be our EBITDA without the digital business in FY '23?
Just a moment. In FY '23, it would be INR 93.3 crores, which was a growth of 88% at a margin of almost 23%.
And what would be the split of this INR 93 crores between the traditional and the solutions business?
Yes. Just a moment. INR 40 crores is non-FCT and INR 50 crore you can take it as the FCT.
I'm sorry, I didn't get you.
INR 40 crore is non-FCT And, the balance would be on the FCT side.
Okay. And how much have we invested in the digital business till now, like till date since we've started investing?
About INR 30 crores to INR 35 crores.
That was this year's investment, right? Or -- I'm asking about the total investment like in digital.
Total investment. I said, total investment. [indiscernible] last year -- in the end of the last year. So largely investment happened in this year only.
And what was the revenue from the digital this year?
Total revenue, as I said, is about 10%, considered total, is the 10% of our radio revenues -- [indiscernible] about INR 7.93 crores.
INR 7.93 crores. And what's our planned expense -- what this INR 30 crores, where have we exactly invested? Like is it to..
That was quarter 4, I said, INR 7 crores. Overall, digital from all segments was INR 34 crores.
INR 34 crores, okay.
For the full year.
Okay. So if you have invested like INR 30 crores for the year and INR 34 crores the revenue, sir, even digital also at a breakeven? Or are you making losses in digital? How is that working?
So the way digital is, as I said, the composed revenue from all our business segments. We are investing in the platform. The platform has given about INR 7-odd crores this year, only the platform revenue. But if you look at the digital revenue of INR 34 crores, INR 10 crores come from our content solution. We do shows like What Women Want, Kareena Kapoor -- that type of shows has given us INR 10 crores. The platform has given INR 7 crores, which is where the larger investment is happening. And digital components from our solutions business gives us about INR 16-odd crores.
Okay. All right. All right. Got it. So -- and where is the INR 30 crore exactly invested? And is it to build up your YouTube number of followers, your social media followers? So where is that INR 30 crores invested?
Couple of things we bring on the platform side. We build a platform, build a app. So there is a lot of on the tech side, which has happened, which largely has happened in FY '23, which is a continuing thing. But base investment happened in FY '23 there. Then you're making your content bank. We have about almost more than 3,000 hours of stories, content available on a Mirchi Plus app. So investment goes on that side also.
Apart from -- we do literally less performance marketing, unlike other players, we are not [indiscernible] we don't want to just burn money and gain more and more subscribers because that's not the right way to do it. And so we have really less on the marketing, but it's largely content acquisition, content making and the tech side.
And so what's the plan? Like for the next year, I understand that we plan to spend more INR 30 crores. So that is also mostly on the content acquisition side only?
Yes. So we want to build the content. Now we have just started opening up our [indiscernible] advertising. So far, we were just building content, you need to build some critical mass before you really go and get the numbers right. So we believe another year or 2, we'll give you that. And the revenues from the platform will start trickling down in this year. And hopefully, FY '25, we will see much more healthier revenues from the platform. Digital revenues will continue to grow from all segments. But from [indiscernible] platform, it will take 1 year, 1.5 years. And you've seen as the numbers grow, then the revenues give you optimistic type of growth. And initially, it will be very, very trickled on.
All right. All right. Got it. And what's the plan for the content? Like how much content do we plan to acquire? Or is it -- I mean, or will the rate of content addition slow down after a couple of years? Like what's the plan there, sir?
See, it's been very, very early days for us. We keep running a lot of experiments. And we keep learning every day. We have been very concentrated on certain languages. India is a large country with so many languages and all. So we're reworking on the strategies. I would not be in a position to share how many hours and all right now. But yes, we look at opportunities. White space is available in the market, which languages are doing well.
It's a nonmusic platform which we are working on. So it's on podcasts, stories and all. We see -- even if you look at any sport, they're going to grow big time. And that's the reason we want to look at all languages, figure out which are the right spaces where we want to grow. And from that, we design our strategy to look at the content, but we'll keep growing. We have in-house also -- not everything is outsourced. It's not actually acquired. We have a strong 300-member creative team who also help us driving this content. And then we also acquire, so it's a mix of both.
All right. Perfect. And on the capacity utilization side for the radio business, what will the as the capacity utilization for FY '23?
See, we were at about 69% at [indiscernible] level this year, which is, to give you a perspective, it's at 13 minutes an hour for 17 hours. So we still have a lot of headroom available. And I think we'll see that the best space in this with the headroom available to utilize all the volumes coming in the market, though at a lower price. But competition doesn't have so much volume available. So we are really, really in a very sweet spot right now at our 70% capacity utilization and -- which I said is measured at 13 minutes an hour for 17 hours. So a lot of inventory is still available for us.
Okay. All right. Got it, got it. Perfect. And 1 last question. Just 1 last question.
Yes, yes. So -- and on the stock price and stock price has not been doing well land. So are there any plans of like doing buybacks to create value for shareholders? Because we have the cash available also?
We are not in position to disclose that. We keep discussing with the Board. I hope you give us a recommendation that people keep buying.
Next follow-up question is from the line of [ Deepan ] from [ TrustLine PMS ].
So just want to understand the price realization difference between our Mirchi Plus app versus the YouTube ad which you are realizing earlier.
[ Deepan ], it's very difficult to quantify because it varies at a different level. I can tell you on the margins, whenever you sell your own inventory, the margins will always be better. Revenues is a function of -- you've just started doing it. So YouTube is being built -- our social media assets of YouTube, Facebook has been built over years. So it takes time and there is a well-oiled machinery, which you're selling it. But I can tell you the margins are always better because your own platform.
Okay. Okay. And so the digital business, excluding platform for the Q4, looks like it has fallen from the previous year and last quarter also. Is there any specific reason for that?
So -- can you repeat it, [ Deepan ]?
The digital business portfolio revenues, excluding the platform numbers, so are you seeing some decline? So what is the reason for that?
I think the TV properties contribution would have gone down. That's the only difference I would see the digital business going down. Because the TV properties business didn't do well, so the element from TV properties would have gone down.
So that's become the part of the solution overall, right? So -- the digital, which we were used to -- even before platform, that used to be in the range of INR 7 crores to INR 10 crores quarterly run rate, right? So that -- if we exclude the platform also, now that is around INR 4 cores, INR 4.5 crores. So that's why...
Yes. So as I said, large sponsorship events have now happened. So if you look at digital content, we did Gauri Khan Show in quarter 3. Quarter 4, we did a Kareena Kapoor Khan show. So a couple of activities, we have not done because of network sponsorships being there. So from that perspective, only I would say it's been a little muted. But otherwise, it's been on track, [ Deepan ].
Okay. Okay. And how is the M-Ping business doing? So what kind of contribution we can expect this year and over 3 years' period, what kind of contribution we are expecting from it?
M-Ping has been very, very exciting for us. It's been just 4 months, [ Deepan ]. I don't want to extrapolate to a year. But if you look at AR, it's very, very healthy. One business we are very excited is about M-Ping. So I don't want to give you a number for the full year. But yes, it can be in a very high double-digit crores business in a few years.
Okay. So what kind of premium players we have already tied up? So what kind of activities we are going to scale up this business? Can you throw some light on that.
[ Deepan ] we have only looked at audio OTT players, and we have tied up with most of them. You ask for it, and we have all large audio OTT players have been tied up. We are still not open on video, which we can do, but we don't want to do. Concentrate on only audio OTT. And most of the players have been tied up.
Okay. So how your OTT business -- currently, what kind of ad revenues they're doing currently? And what type of potential does audio OTT can go up to?
So I'll tell you how it goes. If you look at Spotify today. If you consume Spotify without subscription, there's hardly any ads. In India, the way audio OTT or digital has been sold is largely by display ad or even in audio OTT has been largely playlists. It could be a Maruti playlist or a Britannia playlist. In-stream advertising has never happened in India.
Being the leader in the audio advertising space, when I say radio advertising, we have the largest team strength. And I think the potential is very, very huge with our reach to a number of cities, number of clients and our sales force. The potential is very, very high. And I don't see any of the existing streaming players can look at it.
Okay. Okay, okay. And so regarding these payouts -- our dividend payouts, we have a huge cash -- available with us, and we are spending only INR 30 crores, INR 40 crores to -- in the digital. So what are our plans to give it back to shareholders in terms of dividend or buyback? So are we coming up with some kind of resistence on that front? This has been due for a quite long period of time. Investors have been foreseeing this for a long period of time.
Yes. So [ Deepan ], I completely agree with you. You are absolutely right on that point. It is really -- we are listening to this kind of comments and questions from the investors for a very long time. The -- we made the Board aware of this. But as you will appreciate, this is completely board's purview. And we will be only able to come back to you the moment we get any kind of green signal for them.
Because the stock price has not been moving out because the cash is piling up. So if we do some action on that, our ROEs will improve and stock also will improve on that front. So that is our sincere feedback for company.
Definitely. Noted, noted. We have already communicated to our board about the investor feedback. We will again get in touch with them about that.
[Operator Instructions] Next question is from the line of Subrata Sarkar from Mount Intra Finance.
Just quick 2 follow-up questions. One is like how much cash flow actually we have generated this year? If you highlight the number like cash flow from operations and then after like how much free cash flow basically after the CapEx of INR 30 crores on digital?
Okay. So Subrata, actually, we have uploaded our results in the stock exchange site. So you will get minute details from that. Just to give you the answer, our net increase in cash and cash equivalents for the year is INR 38 crore almost, which was majorly financed by INR 32 crore from operating activities and about INR 6 crore from investment activities -- investing activities.
Okay. Perfect. Sir, now just if you can help us to understand like if there is some [indiscernible], like one thing which we are having like generally radio being localized business, generally, they do relatively better in terms of advertisement when economy is not really at -- doing great basically. I mean there is some pressure on the economy and there are like local -- our business being largely local and like the local, they try to communicate through this radio. So which is -- I suppose there is some similarity currently with the -- in the Indian context when rural demand is not picking up and like there are some pain in the system.
So isn't this type of economy is a great thing for us in terms of ad revenue generation? Because if -- what I can remember, like historically, we have done fabulous previously during this kind of a scenario. So is it right? Or what is the difference this time in this context?
And second, sir, like if you can throw some light in this context, only some light, like how can we get, as an outsider, with some understanding of the ad revenue on radio? How can we relate ad revenue on radio to some other parameters, which we can look into and get a feel of how will we do in terms of ad revenue in radio?
Okay. Subrata, to answer your question, yes, when the economy doesn't do well, mediums like radio do well. To give you perspective, pre-COVID, our contribution from large clients or retail clients, both as corporates and retail, what we say, were used to be 50-50. Now the retail contribution has gone up by 15%, now its almost like 65-35. It's the corporates which are not spending, the retail guys are spending more, which is a very healthy sign for radio medium because the shop front or the agency -- the car agency is trying to spend money at a local level.
The large corporates are holding back to manage because overall market every time, so the to large corporates are not spending. So you're right, in an economic situation like this, medium do well. But this time, it's been a bit different than the large corporates have not spent much, but the retail clients are spending much, as I said in my earlier remarks also that the clients -- number of clients are much higher than pre-pandemic also. So that's a very, very healthy sign for the medium. The volumes are very high. The number of clients are very high. So -- and they are coming back again and again.
So it's a very healthy sign. It just needs the economy to revive and give the right sentiment to come, and then we leverage the business as we have always done in this medium.
The next question is from the line of [ Ansh Manek ] from Equirus Securities.
What would be the utilization level last year in case of radio business?
Full year basis you're saying?
On the quarterly basis, sir.
On quarterly, it was 56%. This year, it's 62% -- sorry, on all verticals, if I were to say, all put together, it's not just radio, again, 66% last year, this year is 76%.
In case of radio, right, sir?
No. No. Radio was the earlier number, which Yatish said. So it was 56% for the last quarter, Q4 FY '22. And it is 62.6%, current, Q4 FY '23.
The next question is from the line of [ Manoj Shah ] from [indiscernible] Investments.
My first question is with respect to the pricing. Can you comment on...
[ Manoj ], sorry, your voice is not coming clearly.
[ Manoj ], can you repeat it? A little bit louder, please?
Yes. Let me comment on the pricing? How is it compared to pre-COVID? Okay. And second, as you have seen, there is a shift from earlier advertisements from print media to television to mobile. So how we are trying to retain customers on the radio discipline? So what the industry is doing and trying to retain the customer over there?
So a couple of points on the first -- on the price, let me address that. As I said, yes, the price pre-COVID level is still down by 35%. But I would say in FY '23, it's bottom out. In Q4, we have seen a slight uptick on the price. So I believe now we can always look at the price on a upward trend, though it will take a few quarters to go to a healthy price, and maybe the pre-COVID levels, it will take a year or more to come back at that level. So I don't think it's happening in another 6 months. So that's on the price, [ Manoj ].
The second, you are saying -- if I understood correctly, you mentioned the listeners have moved from radio to digital or TV. See, it's the media -- Indian media industry become fragmented. There is a lot of content available, be it radio, television, print, OTT, app. So it's -- now you're no longer fighting a media, we're fighting a time of a person. And radio, being the most economical medium, [indiscernible] medium because it's subscription-free. And it's a -- companion media, will always remain.
And that's the reason if you look at our listenership numbers still persists and the advertiser's interest. The biggest answer I would give is the number of advertisers are increasing. That means the medium is working and people believe in radio, that's the reason advertisers goes up. So I think the biggest indicator that the medium is healthy comes from when the advertiser is spending money on our medium.
Okay. Now what [indiscernible] that people are traveling, they're listening FM radio channels and so on kind of things. So now with everything moving back to the mobile, so it's basically -- as you're saying just to get the customer's time or the client's time. So are you saying that the radio or this medium is lagging behind compared to like OTT or the mobile, people are spending more time on the mobile [indiscernible]? And recently I was reading a news that the FM radio by default should be there in the future phone [indiscernible]. Anything you are doing further on that?
Yes. So it's a welcoming thing. A lot of radio listenership happened on mobile. It still happens on mobile. There are certain smartphones, certain platforms where mobile phone was not there. So we welcome the decision. And that's what I would say on the radio. Because the listenership does happen on the go, a lot of people have -- mobile has become a very personal medium. And because it's a medium for all levels of all set of people, it continues to be because all consumptions happen on the mobile. That is the reason, I would say.
But otherwise, I said the listenership is still very, very healthy. People do listen at home, listen in cars, the way the traffic is going up. People are listening on mobiles in metro or car listenership. We have done internal research, even in cars, even with streaming devices available, your own music available in cars, 85% people listen to music through radio only. Because it's not about just listening to music. It's about -- your friend is a jock. It's a companion medium, you get to know about traffic, you get to know about other utilities.
So the listenership in cars is going up. Listenership in mobiles is very, very high. People are back on road. So radio is a great companion medium. So I would say the discussion is very, very healthy. With this vision of advisory on smartphones being -- FM players being combers, it's a very welcoming thing.
And how do you feel like for this current year and maybe spending into next year, we have a lot of election lined up? So do you expect that the volumes to go up with spending of the government or the political parties?
Yes. Always, it has happened. If you look at empirical data also, the last year before, the general election has always been very, very active on government spend, not just the central election because there are 5 state elections also happened in the last year. So it's always a very, very active session -- season for government spending. And we do believe this year also it will be the same.
[Operator Instructions] As there no further questions, I will now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Thank you, Nirav. Thank you once again for joining in and listening us patiently. Thank you for your questions. We work hard to drive ENIL revenue and profitability ahead. And good day to you. Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Thank you very much. On behalf of Entertainment Network (India) Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.