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Emami Ltd
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Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Emami Limited Q4 FY '24 Earnings Conference Call hosted by IIFL Securities Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded.
I now hand the conference over to Mr. Percy Panthaki from IIFL Securities Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Hi, everyone. Good evening. It's our pleasure to host the management of Emami Limited for their 4Q call. I have with me on the line, Mr. Mohan Goenka, Whole-Time Director and Vice Chairman; Mr. Vivek Dhir, CEO, International Business; Mr. Gul Raj Bhatia, President, Healthcare Division; Mr. Manish Gupta, President, Sales; and Mr. Rajesh Sharma, President, Finance and IR.
I'll now hand over the call to Mr. Mohan Goenka, who will take you through the presentation, and then we will open up for Q&A. Over to you, sir.
Thank you, Percy. Very good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you all for joining us today. It's a pleasure to have you with us as we reflect on the performance of the past quarters. I'm pleased to share that we have navigated through headwinds with our ongoing efforts on distribution and brand building yielding positive results, reporting a volume-led revenue growth during the fourth quarter. Notably, the rural market is also witnessing a recovery, which bodes well for our future prospects.
While consolidated net sales at INR 881 crores grew by 8%, revenue from operations at INR 891 crores grew by 7% over previous year in Q4. Our domestic business grew by 8%, with a healthy volume growth of 6.4%.
Turning to our brand-wise performance. Pain management grew by 9%. Health care grew by 10%, and Fair and Handsome grew by 20%, BoroPlus also grew by 33% on account of extended winters while Navratna and Dermicool posted growth of 1% during the quarter. Male Grooming range and Kesh King range were impacted on account of lower discretionary consumption and declined by 2% and 9%, respectively. However, we believe this is a short-term issue, and both the brands would bounce back once the market recovers.
Further, I'm happy to share that Helios and Brillare Science continue to grow robustly by 86%. During the quarter, we launched Nature F1rst healthy radiance range under Fair and Handsome brand and also introduced 4 digital first on Zandu Care D2C portal.
Increased distribution through Project Khoj resulted in additional coverage of more than 20,000 towns in rural regions since the launch of the project. More than 15% of our direct rural sales were achieved from these newly activated coverage towns. Further, our sales enablers like upsell/cross-sell team, beat optimization and chemist outlet expansions were also scaled up during the year. Additionally, our contribution from modern trade at 10% increased by 110 basis points, and e-commerce contribution at around 12% increased by 290 basis points in FY '24.
Despite geopolitical crisis and currency depreciation in key geographies, our international business grew by 9% in constant currency and 8% in INR terms, driven primarily by MENAP region. In FY '24, sales of 7 Oils in One crossed INR 1 billion in the international markets while Creme 21 also registered its highest-ever sales. Our international business further strengthened its portfolio by introducing a range of shampoos and conditioners under 7 Oils in One brand and the baby care range under Creme 21.
Our gross margins at 65.8% expanded by 270 basis points. We invested strongly behind brand-building activities, resulting in 39% growth in A&P expense in this quarter. Despite such investments, EBITDA at INR 211 crores grew by 6%.
For the full year, we achieved revenues of INR 3,578 crores, with a growth of 5%, with gross margin of 67.6%, expanding by 290 basis points. EBITDA at INR 950 crores grew by 10%, with margins expanding to 26.5%, an increase of 120 basis points. Our profit after tax at INR 724 crores grew by 13%.
Looking ahead, we anticipate an improvement in consumption, both in urban and rural markets, sustained by optimistic prospects for rabi crop and a forecast of normal monsoons. Our commitment to investments behind our power brands, expanding distribution network and enhancing capabilities position us severely to seize market opportunities.
Our outlook for the coming quarters remain positive, with a strong summer season and forecast of a good monsoon. We will continue to be focused on our objective of achieving sustainable and profit-led volume-driven growth and amplifying our new growth engines. Favorable macroeconomic indicators, accelerated expansion efforts across emerging channels and strategic initiatives alongside our robust innovation pipeline coupled with sustained investments in core brands will propel us forward -- will propel us towards strong growth in the days to come.
I now open the floor for Q&A. Thank you.
[Operator Instructions] First question is from the line of Arnab Mitra from Goldman Sachs.
Mohanji, a couple of questions from my side. So you mentioned the rural pickup. Are you seeing it in your own sales number? Or is it more a reflection of the Nielsen data, which is, I think, now showing rural going a little ahead? So just wanted some sense of what you're actually seeing on the ground in the March quarter and also in the June quarter until now.
Arnab, I'm talking about our internal numbers, not so much from the Nielsen. Of course, Nielsen also in the last 4, 5 months, they have been very bullish on rural, but internally, also, we are seeing some signs of recovery from all corners. So -- and which we are also seeing in this quarter. So hopefully, this trend continues both in the urban and the rural areas.
Sure. And Mohanji, this quarter specifically, other than BoroPlus, which is obviously a bit seasonal, the nonseasonal categories like pain and health care have also seen some pickup. So do you think there is something overall like improving at that end? Or would you more put it down to the distribution initiatives on your side?
No. So Arnab, as you know, our distribution initiatives have been going on for quite some time now. The Project Khoj has been there for last almost 6 to 7 quarters. But definitely, there is recovery we are seeing across channels, and there is momentum both in health care, in pain, in summer portfolio. So there is some kind of a recovery, which we are seeing across channels.
Sure. And my last question was on margin. So in this quarter, specifically the GM increase was more than offset by the advertising spend increase. Is this a trend you expect in FY '25? Or do we see actually some EBITDA margin expansion also if the growth remains reasonably healthy?
So on margin front, Arnab, we are well positioned. That's why we could spend 39% growth we have seen this quarter also. We would want to spend on our core brands for growth. That is for sure. If the momentum continues, our advertising would also go up. But because the input side improved is the milestone, so there might be some margin expansion in this year, what we expect.
[Operator Instructions] Next question is from the line of Harit Kapoor from Investec.
So my first question is on the summer portfolio. So if you look at Q4, obviously, the summer portfolio growth has been -- has not been great. And I guess it was probably due to a delayed winter. But I just wanted to get your sense about how the first quarter has kind of moved at least the initial trend. It looks like it's been a strong summer, and most categories are going to see a pickup. So I was just wondering if you are seeing that in your performance as well at least from a summer perspective.
Yes. So Manish is on the call. Manish, would you like to answer this?
Yes. Do you mind repeating the question? I couldn't get it properly, if you don't mind that.
Yes, my question was on the summer portfolio and what's the kind of pickup that we've seen in the last 1.5 months, 2 months given that it's been a fairly severe season this time around and whether you've seen that in your numbers.
Yes. So the good news is, yes, we are seeing it absolutely on the numbers. I mean the summer this year, as you rightly said, has like been extremely severe, and we are benefiting from that.
Got it. The second thing is on the ad spend. So Mohanji, you've got a 20% kind of A&P-to-sales ratio, which you haven't done as such consistently. I was just wondering with the market outlook improving a little bit, do you see pace of innovation kind of further picking up over the next 12 to 18 months? Because I remember you're saying that we are ready with a lot of things, but the market is not hungry, so -- but with the market now picking up, do you see more news there? I know you have done 35-plus new products and therein launches, but just wanted to get your sense on that. And how does that reflect on the A&P side as well?
So very much, Harit, I think we are well positioned now. A lot of new launches are in the pipeline. You would definitely see some coming in, in the next 2 quarters. So yes, we are bullish now. We are very well settled both in terms of distribution, innovation, margins. So we would be aggressive, very honestly, going forward.
Sure. And last thing was on pricing. So typically, you have a 2% to 4% type of a price increase trajectory on an annual basis to take care of not only cost but also the other OpEx. So just wondering whether you've actioned some of that already. Do you expect that happening during the year? How do we see that?
So Harit, honestly, we would not be very aggressive in terms of price increases because the input, as I said, are benign. We are expecting EBITDA margin expansion despite of less price increases. Price increase, we expect not more than 2%, 2.5% in this year.
Next question is from the line of Mr. Percy Panthaki from IIFL Securities.
Very interesting to note the growth in the sort of new-age brands, Brillare and Man Company. Can you give some idea on how big those brands are, not in absolute rupees crores or some indication, in terms of what percentage of sales do they contribute to this quarter?
Rajesh, how much is, in this quarter, for these 2 brands?
So both TMC and Brillare would be contributing over INR 200 crores kind of our revenues for the full financial year this year.
Okay, on a full year basis. Okay. And are you also seeing like a good quarter-on-quarter ramp-up? Or I mean it's more or less equally spread out throughout the quarters?
It's slightly increasing quarter-on-quarter going ahead. So this quarter also, if you look, our growth has been significant at more than 80% compared to overall 60% kind of growth for the full year.
Understood. Secondly, I just wanted to understand the -- what is the pipeline inventory as of end of March? Is it higher than what it should be around that time of the year? Or is it lower than what it should be at that time of the year? How are you placed on the pipeline both in the distributor as well as the other parts of the trade?
Manish?
Yes. So for the month of March because, as you know, we start loading for the summer. So like-to-like, I mean we are in a good situation. There are a couple of concerns which we have addressed in the month of April and May, but nothing to be worried about.
So would I be right in assuming that actually the summer sell-in would have been sort of lower than expected because the onset of summer was delayed? Or that's not the case?
No. No, no, not really. See, the onset has an implication on the tertiary and the secondary part. But from a loading perspective, we were pretty much in line with how the things worked out. So we typically start in the month of February onwards. So no change.
Understood. Understood. And how would this affect your primary sales for Q1, if at all, there is any effect? I mean there should be because the loading has already happened, but the sale has been delayed because of the delayed onset. Do we see the sales sort of being a little softer in Q1? Or that's not the way to look at it?
No, no, no. See, I think one change which we have made consciously is that to be prudent about what kind of loading we do in quarter 4 as we have been through Feb and March. So we've been very cognizant about it. And thanks to a great summer start, which has happened. I mean, actually, we are right now in a very good situation in April and May. So you won't see a softer Q1 to that extent.
Understood. Also on Kesh King brand, what really is that brand? Why are we seeing declines in this? And I mean if I look at the brand history over the last 7, 8 years since you have acquired it, it has been a roller coaster ride. There are some years in which it does very well and then some years in which it sort of stagnates or declines. Then some initiatives are taken due to which, again, we see a strong growth, and then again, it declines. So what really do we need to have a more steady, stable, modest growth in this brand? And what is currently the problem that is the brand due to which there is a decline in the sales?
So Percy, if you see last 5 years CAGR, Kesh King has grown at about 4%, okay, which is in line with many of our other brands. Of course -- you are right that there is less of consistency, but we are taking a lot of steps for Kesh King to see that we grow at about 5% to 7%. Of course, there has been a lot of competitive intensity in this category, not just from some of the other brands but also some of the D2C brands. So we are just reworking on this to see how we can grow at 5% to 7% consistently on Kesh King. We have aggressive plans for shampoos under Kesh King.
Understood. Understood. And the other area which is not -- has been doing well since quite some time is the Male Grooming range. So what are the plans to revive that? We have tried different things. We have launched different products. Some have worked, some have not worked a few years ago. The problem was identified that the face is getting covered with beard, and therefore, people are using less of this. But how do we -- I mean I understand all the issues. But is it possible, first of all, to tackle these issues and bring the Male Grooming range back to a healthy growth? Or you think that this is a structural issue and we have to live with, and therefore, the growth will be lackluster in this subsegment?
Percy, we have taken some very interesting call for the Male Grooming. Though we have been growing very aggressively as far as The Man Company is concerned, but yes, Fair and Handsome for the last few years is struggling. We have made a note of it, and we have reworked on the strategy. You would see some things coming in the Q2 of this year.
Okay. Understood. So when you are giving these numbers of Male Grooming, which is minus 2% for Q4, it is excluding The Man Company? Or this minus 2% include The Man Company also?
Excluding The Man Company.
Excluding.
Next question is from the line of Shirish Pardeshi from Centrum Broking.
Just 2 questions. I think Manish alluded saying that the season has panned out very well for Navratna. What is the growth which has panned out in BoroPlus? I mean is there any separate initiatives we have taken?
Shirish, you mean in the first quarter for BoroPlus?
Yes. Quarter 4 BoroPlus growth is much stronger.
Right. That was for -- there was delayed winter. So that's why we saw that growth. But Q1, BoroPlus is very, very small.
Extended winter in Q4.
Extended winter, sorry, in Q4.
Therefore, my question is that we might have seen the extended winter and growth is better. But if that inventory is getting stuck, I understand that quarter 1 and quarter 2 will be a slower selling [indiscernible] for the BoroPlus. But is there any specific beyond winter effect that has happened?
No, not really, Shirish. It is just due to the extended winters.
Okay. Mohanji, my second question is on the international business. Again, international business has been a little volatile when you look at last 3 to 4 quarters. What is the steady-state growth that we are seeing? I mean maybe 2 years before, we have done a lot of changes in the international business. So maybe if you can add, what kind of pains we are struggling and seeing at this time? And what kind of growth we are aspiring for FY '25?
Okay. Vivek?
Yes. So international business has been really stable, even post COVID. As well, it is not 3 or 4 quarters. It is around maybe last 12 quarters, you'll see numbers are happening. So fundamental strengthening of the structure in each of the geography is also happening. We have also made some recent changes in Nepal to pave the way for the local manufacturing maybe 2 years down the line. So the things that are happening. And branding, we're doing local innovations in many countries. We are doing the manufacturing, and manufacturing is further led by localization of procurement as well. Many things are happening altogether to have a permanent growth in the international business. And we will have double-digit growth in coming quarters as well.
So we don't have any concerns per se, apart from, say, political disturbances or the currency issues which are happening to us in, say, Bangladesh or Russia. Currency is a [ pain ] for us. Political issues have happened. Bangladesh has seen some election time during the month of December and January. So those are macroeconomic issues and [indiscernible] growth.
I hope I had -- yes.
I got that. My second last question on the D2C brands. Rajeshji, would you be able to quantify what kind of revenue contribution or absolute number we would have got for these 2 companies, Man Company and Brillare, in FY '24? And what kind of profitability or losses we would have booked for the entire year?
So both put together, TMC and Brillare, we got turnovers of over INR 200 crores for the last financial year. And of that, the bulk of the revenues have come from The Man Company, which is where it is now EBITDA positive since last year. So there, we are not incurring any losses anymore. Brillare being a smaller contributor is still in investment phase and has good plans of growth going ahead.
Okay. Okay. My last question, have we taken...
The loss -- but the loss on Brillare has come down significantly, Brillare.
That's what I wanted to check. But then anyway, I'll take it off-line. Just last question on the margin front, are we aspiring -- because most of the FMCG companies are saying that there is a chance that they might take some price increase, so have we implemented any price increases in last 40, 50 days or planning to take next 40, 50 days?
Yes, we have taken some price increases in some of our portfolios, Shirish. But as I said, for the year, it would not exceed more than 2%.
[Operator Instructions] Next question is from the line of Nillai Shah from Moon Capital.
Mr. Nillai, we are not able to hear you.
Sorry, is it better?
Yes, we can hear you now.
Okay. Mohanji, there is one question from my end. In terms of fiscal '25 growth aspirations, what would that number be, given the fact that the summer seems to have worked out well, which has laid into 1Q, as Manish mentioned, and then we've also -- will be cycling basically 2 back-to-back weak winter seasons. So would you say a double-digit growth is something that Emami should be aspiring to for fiscal '25?
Definitely, Nilesh (sic) [ Nillai ], I think as the summer has started well, and you are right, we have lower basis for winter. So we definitely expect more than 10% growth for the financial year.
Hello?
It seems that we have lost the connection from the current questioner. We will move to the next question from the line of Harit Kapoor from Investec.
I guess on the distribution side, the last couple of years, we've seen GT lagged quite materially in terms of growth, [indiscernible] on the new channels. I was just wondering whether this decline in GT has kind of narrowed in the last quarter or 2, especially with the rural improving a little bit. So I just wanted to get your sense on that as well as, obviously, your own initiatives in GT. So I just wanted to get your sense on how that channel has done over the last, say, 3, 4, 5 months.
Manish?
Yes. If you don't mind, could you repeat it? I'm on a line which is a little sketchy, so...
Yes, no worries. So Manish, I just wanted to get your sense on GT growth performance. It has been seen -- it has seen declines in the past. I'm just wondering whether you've seen an improvement in GT channel led -- aided by the market as well as by your own initiatives on distribution expansion. And just a follow up on that also, what are the expectations in terms of distribution initiatives going into the FY '25?
All right. So as you know, I mean, typically, what's happening in the industry is that GT is obviously a step behind in terms of growth versus an MT and e-com channel, right? And there's a fair bit of interplay between the channels itself due to the nature of the channel itself. The good part for us is Khoj has been a big discovery and helping us grow faster in rural.
The good news is that over the last 1 year, we have also taken steps. We were kind of facing a bit of a headwind in the urban GT channels, which we are addressing via addressing the top end of the urban GT, addressing the pharmacy channel in GT, addressing whether it's upsell, cross-sell and developing the distributors and the beat optimization and stuff. So there is a fair bit of action which is happening in the urban GT channels because that's where you know the growth is, that's where the consumer is and that's where we are seeing a lot of action.
So while Khoj continues to be a mainstay from a rural expansion perspective, there's a fair bit of attention that we are putting towards the urban GT now because rural is kind of -- Khoj is now kind of stabilized. We can put our attention on the urban GT numbers.
No, Harit, and interestingly, in the last 4, 5 months, you are right. We have increased a lot of focus on the urban GT. We are seeing positive results coming in from there.
[Operator Instructions] Next question is from the line of Dhiraj Mistry from Antique Stockbroking.
So my first question is regarding -- can you break up current quarter sales between rural growth and urban growth for the quarter?
So Manish, would you have that?
So when you say for the current quarter -- what is the number?
Urban and the rural growth numbers.
Yes. So rural is in like mid-single digits, and urban is in the range of low single digits.
Okay. So our domestic growth was 8%, and rural growth was in mid-single digit, and urban was in low single digit.
7% and 8%. So I'm talking about because we see this number will not have channels like CSD, modern trade, e-com and all that.
Okay, okay. Got it. So what would be -- yes, so -- sorry, continue.
No, I think this is just a split of the GT portion only because rest of the channels will not get added into this.
Yes. So can you help us the growth for modern trade and e-commerce for the quarter?
So modern trade is about 17%, and e-comm is 37%.
Okay. Okay. Sir, and second question is regarding Zandu brand that we have opened 3 EBO stores, also extended that juices in online e-commerce channel. How do we see that going ahead that this category has particularly faced volatile growth rate since COVID time? And how should we project going ahead?
Gul Raj?
Yes, Gul Raj here. So thank you for the question. I would say that from a D2C perspective, we've done a number of digital-first product launches over the last 3 years as you'll be aware. And we are seeing growth happening year-on-year, quarter-on-quarter. And the growth has been fairly steady and fairly good.
Specific to the point you raised about juices and about EBOs, so in juices, I think the category, in some segments of juices, is performing very well online, D2C, especially for products offering customized or specific health benefits for certain body parts or certain ailment where it's not possible to get a wide distribution in the GT segment. And hence, these tend to do well in a D2C scenario or in a D2C market.
Regarding the EBOs, we are doing a pilot test launch to see whether we can decide being present in online, decide being present on e-com channels, decide being present in modern trade and emerging channels, can we also see whether we can leverage the malls, et cetera. So it's still at a very test phase. It's still very early to see whether we would extend it on a large field. So it's not going to be a strategic growth driver for the D2C business in terms of the EBO channel per se because while there is an opportunity, there is a certain cost element also. So from an ROI perspective, it doesn't become as viable as in online channel.
Got it. Got it. And sir, next question is on e-commerce channel profitability, leaving apart Man Company and Brillare [indiscernible] D2C products. Our core product, how would be the profitability for those products in online e-commerce channel, whether it would be more or less similar to our general trade, modern trade channel or it would be slightly lower than that?
Yes, the profitability for e-com is slightly lower than the overall profitability for GT, obviously, because of higher discounts and offers being offered to the consumers.
Okay. And what would be that difference between those channels?
So it is slightly lower, I would say. Difficult to give a specific number but slightly lower.
Okay. Got it. And sir, 2 bookkeeping question. What would be the amortization amount going ahead and effective tax rate for FY '25?
So amortization would be roughly INR 100 crores. You can consider that for next 2, 3 years. And for next 2 years also, we would be availing our -- one of the plants, so Pacharia plant in Guwahati enjoys tax benefits until FY '26. For next 2 years, our tax rate should be around 10%, considering MAT credit, which should be available to us.
[Operator Instructions] Next question is from the line of Anurag Dayal from HSBC.
So first, sir, related to Zandu, basically, I wanted to get some update on the toothpaste which you launched earlier. So how has been the reception so far? Could you give me some update on that same?
Yes. So Gul Raj here. Thank you for the question. We did the online launch about 2, 2.5 months back of Dantveer, and the modern trade e-com launched about 1.5 months back. So we are seeing good traction online. Regarding the modern trade, e-comm, it's probably still too early to say because we've done the sell-in, and we started the marketing programs. So we'll probably get to know 1 month or 2 on how the response is in terms of how do we take it forward.
The overall very sort of early signals we are getting is that we are getting trials. What is important as you know in these categories is to see what the repeat purchases are. And the repeat purchase cycle will take a couple of months more to see whether consumers come back or -- so probably it's still a bit early to say. We'll probably know, by maybe July and on, what the repeats are and how it [indiscernible].
So the end game is basically if it does well, we'll get into GT to expand the market?
We would probably evaluate it very closely in terms of what kind of consumer penetration we get, what kind of repeat we get, what kind of ROI we get because the GT market, as you know, fairly -- competitor with fairly high media spend by most of the major brands. So at this point of time, we've not really thought about getting into the GT market at least for a fairly extended time. We would want to be in -- but if we see a very rapid scale up and we find that GT has a higher potential, we would obviously consider [ GT as well ].
Got it. Very clear, sir. Another, just a clarification I need is around the domestic volume of 6% and value of 8%. So does it include the new-age brands as well or just the core brands?
By new age, you mean the online?
Online ones.
Yes, it includes those.
So some -- I mean, excluding that, what would be the volume growth, just how much basis points lower?
It would be -- we would be in high single digits in terms of growth for non-D2C also for quarter 4 because in quarter 4, we've done particularly well. So we hope to continue the momentum going forward in the current quarter and the next few quarters also -- in the coming years also.
We have our next question from the line of Mr. Percy Panthaki from IIFL Securities.
Percy sir, your line is unmuted. Please go ahead.
Yes, sorry. Just wanted to understand what is the increase in distribution over the last 3 years in terms of outlets as well as in terms of value-added distribution?
This is Manish here. So -- okay, so I will rather answer it in different -- we have -- as you know, we have invested a lot in -- both in chemist expansion, Khoj expansion, rural expansion and all that, right? Rather than now focusing on the numerical as we discussed some time back, we are now focusing on the quality of distribution and the quality of inputs. So I think going forward, what you'll hear from us is that how do we not just rely it in numerical increase but rather a quality of distribution metric.
And how much is the numerical distribution right now?
So our reach is almost in the range of 10 lakh outlets between urban and rural networks on a full year basis.
Okay. Okay. So that is a direct reach, right, 1 million?
Correct.
Okay. Okay. Understood. And since you are focusing also in addition to rural and urban also in terms of the reach, chemists and all that, would you be able to share or would you have any data on how the value-weighted distribution has gone up? Because it is possible that maybe your number of outlets have not gone up too much. But if you have chosen outlets which are relatively larger in terms of throughput, then basically, your value-weighted number would have gone up materially.
Yes. So that's exactly what we want to address. Obviously, as you know, in FMCG industry, the Pareto principle is very sharp, right? The head is very strong, and the tail is very long for all the companies of the categories. What we want to do is diffuse the head a bit and have more participation of the big players in this market and avoid the risk of concentration because that's not good for us, both from sales as well as spends perspective.
So that's the reason to trim the tail, grow the head and elongate the head a bit so that we are more evenly poised to play with our brand portfolio. Our portfolio is growing every year. So we need to be a little more savvy in how we reach to these stores with the various portfolios.
And can you explain in terms of distribution what is the exact organization? Like is there a super distributor or sub-distributor model? Or is it that directly from your warehouse, it goes to a distributor, and then the distributor does a direct distribution to the retail? I'm sure it will be maybe a combination of both. Maybe in rural areas, we will have a sub-distributor kind of model. So can you explain a little bit on that? And if at all, there has been a change in that, if, let's say, you have moved a little more towards the direct distribution and not through a super distributor, if something like that has happened, some flavor on that.
All over the...
So Manish -- Percy, is it possible to take this off-line because this well-established model, nothing has changed per se. If you really want to go into the details of it, I would request to take it off-line with Manish.
Absolutely, absolutely. I'll do that, sir. Yes. So that's all from my side. There are no further people in the -- okay, there's one person I see in the queue right now. So yes, maybe we can take the question.
Next question is from the line of Nitin from Emkay.
I have 2 questions. First is on your cooling...
Mr. Nitin, your voice is very low. Please use handset.
Hello? Is it better now?
Yes, you're audible now. Please go ahead.
I have 2 questions. First is on cooling oil. For the category, we have seen multiple traditional players entering the category. And given the summer is favorable, how do you see the competitive intensity in this category?
Manish?
You'll have to repeat the question, sorry.
So okay, I will take this -- I'll take this. So there is competitive intensity we have seen last year, but we are not seeing it impacting our Navratna oil or the Navratna Cool Talc. So we are going strong. The summer is also strong this year. So we have not seen any impact of the competitiveness.
And any sense on like the increase in participant has helped driving better growth in the category.
No, we haven't seen much, honestly. We will have to wait for 1 more season. We will only [indiscernible] after this season.
Okay. Okay. And the last question is with respect to pain management and health care, which has grown 9%, 10%. So we can see that there is a favorable base. So can we attribute largely to favorable base? Or like it is also the extended winter has helped this portfolio?
It is primarily because of the extended winters, you are right.
Mr. Nitin, does that answer your questions?
Yes.
[Operator Instructions] As there are no further questions from the participants, I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for the closing comments.
We thank all the participants for joining us today at our quarter 4 results con call. Thank you, IIFL. Thank you, Percy, for handling this call. Thank you. Have a good day.
Thank you, everyone. Good evening. Bye-bye.
Thank you.
Thank you. On behalf of IIFL Securities Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.