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EIH Ltd
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Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for attending this virtual meeting. I'm pleased to welcome you on behalf of EIH Limited and SKP Securities to EIH Limited's Q2 FY '25 earnings webinar. We have with us Mr. Vikram Oberoi, Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer; and Mr. Samidh Das, Corporate Controller.
Friends, this virtual meeting is being recorded for compliance reasons. And during the discussion, there may be certain forward-looking statements, must be viewed in conjunction with the risk that the company faces.
We'll have the opening remarks by Mr. Oberoi, followed by a presentation by Mr. Das, and then we open the floor for the Q&A session. Thank you, and over to you, Vikram.
Thank you, Navin. Thank you very much. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for joining the Q2 investor book. First of all, a quick apology. We had to change the date of the meeting. I had a pressing engagement that required me to travel overseas. So I apologize and if I had inconvenienced anyone, I'm ever so sorry.
Just very briefly, our Q2 results, you would have been -- they were both at a stand-alone and consolidated basis. Historic results for the company, the best ever so far. And we continue to remain optimistic about the sector on our potential in that sector.
We've also made a disclosure on 20 new hotels and cruises. Some of those are mixed use as well, and we will share those details in the presentation that Samidh is going to make.
So Samidh with that, over to you. And after Samidh's presentation, we look forward to answering your questions. Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen.
Thank you, Mr. Oberoi. Good afternoon, everybody. I'm going to present the Q2 performance of the company.
First, we'll talk about the -- how the hotel sector in India is performing. There is a growth in the domestic air passenger traffic, which is 6% on a year-on-year basis. And what is very heartening to note is that over last year, the occupancy percentage is growing up by 2% to 4% in the Hospitality segment. And the significant increase in ARR, which is around 3% over last year, but more than 30% -- 31% to 33% from the pre-COVID time.
And this naturally shows the increase in the RevPAR, and this growth in RevPAR highlights the demand for the interest supply in the hospitality industry. Our expansion strategy is also in line with that to meet the guest requirement.
Taking it to the EIH performance, the RevPAR of the company is consistently at 130% over the STR competition set. It's the blue line, which is showing. There's a RevPAR year-on-year growth so far as Q2 is concerned, in the overall metro, it is 10%; for leisure, 87%; for Trident Metro, it is 22%; Trident Metro and Trident Leisure both and other areas, it is 14%.
If we look at all owned hotels, then the RevPAR growth year-on-year in Q2 is 15%. And if we talk about all domestic hotels, including managed, this growth is 14%. The ARR and occupancy trend month-on-month basis, on a quarterly occupancy and ARR, which has grown from 69% to 72%. And ARR has grown from 13,730 to 14,970.
By city, we need to remember here that last year, Delhi got benefited because of the G20 Summit. In Agra, Trident Agra was closed for 2 months. In MENA region, because of the Israel conflict, the performance is a little muted. Oberoi Grand is temporarily closed from 15th August for renovation. By city, we have shown the growth over last year.
This shows segment-wise growth in room revenue. In every segment, there is a growth. The growth in direct and MICE is significant, but is also there in corporate as well as in leisure. Growth is there from same quarter last year as well as from the previous quarters -- from the Q1.
EIH financials for the Q2. The best ever Q2 performance over last 15 years, highest revenue and EBITDA and PAT. In consolidated performance also over the last 7 years, this is the highest revenue and EBITDA as well as PAT. Fund position is also strong. There is INR 592 crores fund, which is there, which is retained for future growth as well as expansion.
We had -- if we compare against last quarter, then there is a reduction because of the dividend payment, which has taken place as well as the advanced tax, which we have paid, and the growth CapEx, which we have incurred. The consolidated fund position.
Moving to the financials. Revenue for the current quarter, rather quarter 2 was INR 557 crores, which is a growth of 14% over last year. EBITDA at INR 189 crores grew by 27% over last year. And profit after tax is at INR 114 crores, which is a 34% growth over last year.
Consolidated, the company's revenue is INR 623 crores, which is a 13% growth over last year. The EBITDA of the company is INR 208 crores, which is a 26% growth over last year. And the profit is at INR 133 crores, which is a 41% growth over last year.
The overall positioning, the premium positioning also reflects the number of awards, which we have received in 2024. This is self-explanatory. Rajvilas ranked the best hotel in the world, and the list continues.
To share with you the expansion plans. There are 20 properties, which are expected to come in by 2029. We have given the year-wise breakup and the number of keys, which is going to get added. We have also given the bifurcation of domestic and international properties, which are going to come up.
When we mentioned owned hotel, it is owned either by the company or by its joint ventures and associate companies. There are 13 Oberoi hotels, which are upcoming. There are 4 Trident hotels and 3 [ luxury boards and Nelreeiser ]. 11 in India -- 11 of them are in India and 9 of them and international. And out of 29, 9 hotels are owned hotels and 11 will be managed hotels.
This is our business footprint, the corporate structure and our international business. There are now 3,772 keys in India. Thank you.
Over to you, Navin.
Thank you, Samidh.
Thank you.
Friends, we start the Q&A session. [Operator Instructions] We take the first question from Archana Gude. Archana, please go ahead.
Congrats on good set of numbers. I have 2, 3 questions, starting with firstly on -- we have a very strong split of expansion until FY '29. So firstly, what would be the consolidated CapEx for this?
Would you like to ask all your questions or would you like me to...
Yes. Sure. Maybe I'll just add up my questions. So secondly, on this, we had this GBP 69 million investments in this EIH London, so which roughly comes to INR 700 crores. So will that be for our owned hotel in London? Some more color on have we finalized the land, what kind of property we should expect, some color on maybe ADR or expected ADR on the front?
And thirdly, sir, when I look at the RevPAR for Oberoi and Trident, I think, obviously, Trident being in the business is doing better than the Oberoi. But when we'll see maybe incremental RevPAR growth for Oberoi Leisure and Oberoi Metros going forward? These are my 3 questions, sir.
Certainly. Thank you, Archana, and good afternoon to you. The CapEx, various hotels that we are -- that are going to be owned by our associate companies or by EIH, all those disclosures have been made to the stock exchange. I'm not carrying each one of them, in fact to run through them, it would take a fair bit of time.
So may I request you to look at those disclosures. All of them have been provided with details of CapEx as well. And if you have any questions, of course, please refer them to Navin. We'll be happy to provide any additional information that you see based on what is available in the public domain.
To your second question was on London. London, the hotel is a luxury hotel. It is in Mayfair and in a prime, prime location in Mayfair. Mayfair in London is where the best hotels in London are. Hotels like Clarges, Mandarin, et cetera. So that's the location of the hotel.
It will be 21 keys. The total investment is GBP 69 million, and the Board has approved that, and we've made that disclosure. What I would like to point out is that out of the GBP 69 million, typically, in our ventures, we look at a 50% debt, 50% equity. So please factor that into your numbers at GBP 69 million. And our objective would be to get a partnership of possibly 49%, and that will further reduce EIH's exposure.
So all things given, EIH's exposure will be probably slightly under GBP 18 million. So that covers London.
I'd just like to say one thing about Oberoi City and Oberoi Leisure. Let me start with Leisure. The Oberoi Leisure hotels operate at a high rate. And this is to -- a good amount is determined by international travel into India, which really takes place in Q3 and Q4, starting in October, in the financial year. So please, when you look at the numbers, please keep in mind that the bulk of business that drives revenue and profitability comes in the -- in Q3 and Q4 of the financial year.
Our City hotels have also, in fact, all our City hotels, whether Oberoi or Trident, have performed very well and substantially over at the same time last year. So Archana, I hope I've answered your questions.
Sure, Vikram. That was helpful. Vikram, did you say 21 key hotel in London? Am I correct?
That's correct. Largely -- it will be a mixture of suites and rooms but much more -- a larger proportion of suites. And you asked me on rates in London, rates in London as of today for the first half of the year, just over the first half of the year based on STR data is about -- just under GBP 1,200. And that's for rooms and suites. Given that we'll have a large number of suites, we expect rates to be considerably higher, given the growth that is also anticipated in the market.
So London operates at very high rates or Central London Mayfair operates at very high rates, and strong occupancies as well.
Right. And have you also finalized the strategic partner there? You were talking about having a partner in London. Not yet?
No. That is our objective to do that, and we'll do that at the appropriate time.
We take our next question from Amit Agarwal.
My question is regarding Mumbai, the airport business [ lounge ]. In the last conference you mentioned that this is on lease and it's going to end. So when is the lease ending, and is there any chance of the lease being renewed?
So we've got a confirmation from Adani that, that will continue until the end of Q3. That's the current position as of now. So there has been an extension of 1 quarter.
That's not for like 4, 5 years or something like this?
Sorry, Amit, could you repeat that?
Isn't it for 4, 5 years or something like this, longer duration?
No, no. The lease actually was supposed to come to an end already. And it was actually supposed to come to an end in -- at the end of Q2. There's been an extension of a further quarter so far, and we'll see beyond that if there's a further extension or not.
And if we don't get it, how much business loss we'll have per quarter?
Amit, I don't have that figure with me, and I don't want to misquote your figure, but perhaps we can take that off-line. I don't even know if I can make that disclosure, but I will find that and if I can, happy to share it with you.
And my other question is regarding the same thing. IndiGo is coming out with business class in domestic sector. Are we going to benefit out of it? Anything related to it?
All I can say is that we have a very close relationship with IndiGo, and we provide substantial catering to them already. I don't want to make any statement going forward on a forward-looking statement. But we will do our best to maximize our business from IndiGo and other airlines.
No, I'm talking about the domestic sector. Business class IndiGo only. So you can, I think, share the situation?
I don't want to share the situation, Amit. Because it's -- once it's confirmed, we'll share.
Okay. And my other question is regarding Bangalore property. So there's a commercial portion attached to the whole property. Are we going to lease it out or we going to sell the shops?
No, it's largely -- it's mixed-use commercial. You're referring to Hebbal. A substantial amount of commercial space. So just to cover what we're doing in Oberoi there, a Trident and commercial, and it will be largely office -- grade A office space with some retail and certainly, a good F&B component, which will all be leased out. So the office or the commercial -- the entire commercial space will be leased out.
So that will block a lot of our investment, right?
Pardon?
So that will block a lot of investment in the real estate?
Sorry, I don't know when you -- what you mean by that. Could you just explain that to me further?
Real estate will be placed -- too much money will be in the real estate and we'll be just getting the rentals every year. That's right.
Actually, we -- Amit, we did a study and you can run the numbers yourself as well. In any prime A location in our cities or Tier 1 cities in India, given the cost of real estate, the only -- in our view, the only formula that works is a mixed-use development. If you were to do a stand-alone hotel, your returns will be far lower. And that's driven by the substantial -- one is obviously the cost of land, but more importantly, the significant cost of development of a hotel vis-a-vis commercial space, which is basically a warm shell and then finished by the tenants who lease the space.
And it's actually a very profitable business. So that significantly enhances the internal rate of return for the project. And that's both in the case of the 2 announcements we've made in -- for Hebbal and for Pune.
So the retail sector would be like high-end luxury units or is this still like normal shopping mall?
The entire thing will be high end. It will be a Grade A commercial.
Grade A commercial. If I could fit in another question, that's the last question from my side, if I'm allowed to do so. There's a controversy regarding the Oberoi Tirupati property. So what is the status and how much capital we've already invested in that because I think that is in controls right now.
I think I'm not going to comment on that. You're referring to the newspaper article that appeared, I'm not going to comment on that at this point.
So are we going to ahead with the investments? Or we have to...
We're going ahead with Tirupati, yes.
We'll take the next question from Aishwarya.
I just saw your presentation, which suggests some 20 properties and 1,350 keys development plan?
Yes.
Which has recently come up, it's very good to see the kind of pipeline we have. I try to go through the EIH associate website and try to see that how much CapEx will go in each of these hotels, but I'm not able to get any details. I'm really curious to know that how much money we'll be spending on this pipeline and especially the -- which is not a managed property, which is owned property. And whether these are the greenfield or the brownfield. So these detailings really help us to figure out the cash flow and see how this property will add to the numbers at some point of time.
Yes. So first of all, thank you, Aishwarya. And those disclosures have been made. Perhaps we can send those through to Navin and he can share them with you. So with EIH Associated, just to clarify, it's just the Trident in Vizag. And then through Mumtaz, which is -- currently owns the Oberoi, it will be Gandikota and Tirupati, and we'll share those details with you. And Hebbal, of course, is available also in the public domain. So -- and that's entirely an EIH project. But we'll share that with Navin to forward to you.
Sure. And sir, in this context, one more question. When we decided to go with these kind of our own property, what kind of return on capital employed do you anticipate on this owned one?
So our minimum threshold internally is an internal rate of return of 15% or higher. And all these projects are significantly above that.
That's wonderful. And one last thing, sir, when we come up with some of these 300-plus rooms, 500 rooms and all. So how long generally these projects will take, I mean, 3 years, 5 years?
That's all given on the slide. If you look at the slide that we have, it tells you each year, which hotels are open and the total number of keys.
Take the next question from Sanjay Kohli.
Congratulations on another great set of numbers.
Thank you so much. Really appreciate it. Thank you for your support.
Absolutely. Mr. Oberoi, we were wondering if you are going to look at adding wedding services and other similar kind of services basically to drive revenue. Is this a consideration at all?
It's a segment that is -- we play in today already. So if you look at the MICE numbers that are in the presentation that Samidh had shared and that we've also filed. MICE includes weddings, and weddings is an important segment for us in a large number of our hotels. So probably the most prominent ones -- hotel for weddings is Udaivilas in Udaipur or the Oberoi Udaivilas. Equally Trident in Udaipur that for gets a large wedding business at very good rates at both locations.
We have wedding business in the Oberoi Gurgaon, the Oberoi New Delhi, across our hotels. So Sukhvilas also in Chandigarh benefits from large weddings as well. So this is a market we do play in, and it's an important market for us, and we will continue to play in this segment.
I see. Okay. I wasn't aware. So this is wedding with the full [Foreign Language] or some restrictions are there?
So in -- it's a buyout. For example, in Udaivilas or in our leisure hotels, it's a whole hotel buyout. And when there's a whole hotel buyout, we're very flexible.
We'll take the next question from Sunny Sarkar.
Yes. Sir, I just want to know that you just indicated that the Q3 and Q4 are much more profitable in terms of revenue and profitability for our leisure hotels? So is it the same for our city hotels or it is much more balanced throughout the year for the city hotels?
No, we still see a significant increase in average room rate and occupancies in city hotels as well, but it's much more pronounced in leisure. And if you just look at the slide, there is a slide that we presented, which shows you quarter-to-quarter. I'll just see which number that is, and if you refer to that slide, it will give you -- it just shows you by quarter, you'll be able to -- let me just -- Samidh, do you know what slide number it is?
Yes. Just 1 second.
Slide #10. Actually, I look at Slide #7, that really give good indication and [ maybe focused ] on managed hotels. And that is a slide to refer to. And where you'll see it by segment as well. But perhaps Slide #7 is the most relevant.
Right, right. And sir, lastly, how do you see as of now the room rates for the next forthcoming calendar year, I mean the ARRs?
So I've made this -- and I won't make this specifically for us. But we are positive about tourism in India, both driven by leisure, business, MICE, et cetera, and we expect rates to be strong, particularly in winter months. And our position, I've said this before, I think in -- for -- at least for the luxury -- for our luxury hotels in India, not only for us but also others in this segment, there's considerable upside in rates. And I have no doubt that we will do everything we can to drive higher rates.
And hopefully, we'll be able to share them with you in the upcoming quarters.
So you see the supply-demand scenario much more skewed in the Luxury segment more than in the city hotels.
No, that's not what I'm saying. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying there's a considerable opportunity for luxury hotels, both city and leisure to drive up rates. In fact, I would say it's greater in city hotels because luxury, the -- at least our hotels in the Luxury segment already are operating at very high rates. Winter rates touch $1,000 for some of our hotels.
We'll take the next question from Bharat Sheth.
Congrats on a good set of numbers. My first question is if we can share -- see, although, I mean, all -- I mean, whether, MICE, leisure, direct or corporate has RevPAR, we are seeing the growth. But which are the -- among this 4, which is we are seeing a very high RevPAR growth and how do we -- for the same thing in the second half among all these 4? And how is the contribution on an annualized basis, we are getting from all these 4 sector corporate, direct, leisure and MICE.
Sorry, Bharat. I really had trouble. I apologize. If I could just request you to repeat the question. I struggle to...
Yes. Fair. On Slide 10, we are stating, I mean, RevPAR growth for MICE, leisure, direct and corporate. So can you give some color to how -- what is the trend we are seeing among 4, which is going much faster? And how do we see the same trend for second half of the year?
And third question is, among all this, which is contributing how much approximately on an annualized basis, if you can give some ballpark number.
I'm reluctant to disclose figures by segment because that's information that we would like to keep confidential. So I'm reluctant to give you that. And that's why we haven't actually in the slide given early numbers, but given trend lines, which you will be able to see.
And obviously, we have to be mindful of what our competitors are doing. And therefore, please forgive me for not being able to share that with you. It's with good reason that we don't provide exact numbers by segment, whereas in Slide #7, we do. The other question you asked is how do you see business going forward?
We remain optimistic, and I've made that statement before. And at least so far, thankfully, as we've been correct in our understanding of where the market is heading and where we are heading within that market. So I have no reason to believe that will not continue.
And this trend, earlier, we were saying that will last for several years. So do you still believe that this is -- I mean, this trend or uptrend will continue for coming at least next 3, 4 years?
Yes. In fact, I would -- I looked at some data and this is all available in the public domain, basically to see what the potential increase in supply is, what the potential increase in demand is and also looking at historic data.
So if past is a prediction of future plus the hotels that are announced, and also looking at projections that, again, in the public domain through various sources on increasing demand. I have no reason to believe based on -- at least what I've seen that demand will not outstrip supply.
So on this London property -- on the London, you said that total consideration will be GBP 118 million. Is that...
No. GBP 18 million, in fact, under GBP 18 million. And that's based on several assumptions, right? So number one, the total project cost is GBP 69 million. We typically look at a GBP 50 million equity. And then if we're able to bring in a partner at, let's say, 49%, then our exposure would be just under GBP 18 million. So that...
And when do we expect that property to be operational?
In 2028. And that's also given on that Slide on...
So are we building now -- it's already some property that we are renovating?
Yes. The building is a historic building. It's on a -- sorry, in fact, I think Archana asked that question, and Archana, I apologize if I didn't answer it at that time. It's on a 128-year lease from Grosvenor state. Grosvenor owned most of the land in Mayfair and most of the land in Mayfair this is prime, prime land in Mayfair, it's given on lease. So it's 128-year lease.
Okay. Sir, last question with your permission.
Sure.
So earlier, we were planning a resort in Mumbai, but now we are not seeing that anywhere in our pipeline or -- so can you share some color, is it already operational or that plan has been dropped off?
No, in fact, it's actually not a resort. It's a city hotel, albeit it will be a very -- it will be a top end luxury hotel. And that plan is -- hasn't finished out. So we're just managing that hotel. And in fact, I think there was a release from Reliance some time ago on 3 projects, which included this one. So that's also available in the public domain.
We take the next question from Sumant Kumar.
So my question is for acquisition of U.K. entity and you have invested as per the announcement, INR 750 crores. So my question here is, when we have a huge opportunity in India, and we have a surplus land also in Bangalore, where we are -- I have not seen any significant plan. So what is the logic, what is the strategy behind to invest a huge amount of your capital in U.K. market compared to India that is not growing -- where India is a growing nation.
So let me answer the second question first. And of course, Samidh will answer your first question as well. The land we have in Bangalore is at Hebbal. And that's why we're doing the over 1 million square feet development, which includes an Oberoi Hotel, a Trident Hotel and the Grade A commercial space. And that -- those details are provided on the slide on our growth.
So absolutely, we are fully committed to the opportunities that lie within India. And you can see that in the hotel development pipeline that we've announced. We continue to work tirelessly to expand in India, and we are equally optimistic as you are on India.
I'll now take the second part of your question. The U.K. is in our top 3 source markets. So our top 3 source markets are, of course, India for our India hotels, the U.S. and the U.K. And we don't have a footprint in any of the -- in the U.S. or the U.K.
And given the substantial travel of people from the United States to the United Kingdom, and the United Kingdom guests coming to us as well and U.S. guests coming to us. Having a flag in the U.K. will really enhance our brand presence. That's number one.
And people will be more familiar with the Oberoi brand than they are today. This will really be a top end luxury hotel that will compete with the best hotels in London. And it's really a location, which is second to none. So that's the first thing.
The second thing I also wanted to mention is that if we want to look at a growth strategy through management contracts in the U.K., and I've attended these pitches that we made for management. Today, not having a presence in developed markets, any owner is reluctant to look at opportunities for management contracts with us because they say, "We know what you do in India and in other parts of the world, but you're not in Europe. You're not in the U.S. and can you replicate that same success in those markets?" And we absolutely believe we can. We wouldn't be doing this project if we didn't.
But I'm hoping that this will also help in establishing ourselves in this market and growing in this market. And I'm sure you're familiar with Four Seasons Hotels. And Four Seasons Hotels, if you go back in history, prior to the acquisition of Regent, which I can't remember which year it was, it's quite some time ago, had a very small footprint in Europe.
And after they acquired Regent Hotels. So Regent had, in fact, even in the U.S., the Four Seasons in New York, for example, is -- was supposed to be a Regent Hotel. The Milan hotel was a Regent Hotel. Some of the best hotels were Regent Hotels. And when they opened these hotels, it helped substantially with their development and opportunities from management contracts in these markets.
So we need to make a step and we hope this is the right step. And like I said, the location is second to none, and we will build and operate a hotel, which is second to none.
For Bangalore, we have announced how many rooms?
So the Oberoi is 125 keys. The Trident is 275. And then there's -- the rest is commercial. And if I again just refer you to...
It's not in PPT?
I beg your pardon?
It is not in the PPT.
It is. If you refer to Hebbal, Hebbal is Bangalore. So if you look at...
Page 23.
Page 23. It is in the -- Samidh, can you just put that slide on, Samidh, Page 23, I think it is.
Number of rooms we have given of 581 is including Andhra also, right? Is Gandikota. Gandikota is in Andhra.
In Andhra, correct.
All put together, Gandikota, Hebbal and Pune, Oberoi Hebbal and Trident is 581 under correct?
So yes. And can I just give you the numbers for Hebbal since you asked about that? It is 125 key Oberoi and a 275 Trident -- 250 key Trident.
As a business hotel, Oberoi Hebbal is a business Hotel right? Why are we...
Sorry, could you just repeat that?
So my question here is, you were talking about 125 rooms in Oberoi Hebbal. is 125 too less compared when you say business model, 125 is not justified?
I can assure you based on -- we're really thorough in our analysis. And I would just encourage you, I don't know if you have access to STR data. But perhaps you have friends in Bangalore or you know what the occupancies are some of the other luxury hotels that are much larger. So we...
What I'm saying is it will be 200, 300 rooms hotel.
Please allow me to finish right. So if I could -- the decision on number of keys for an Oberoi, Trident are taken with great care and after thorough analysis. And based on our analysis, and the studies we've done, looking at STR data, looking at comp set information, et cetera, looking at the location. We believe that this is the right inventory for an Oberoi and the right inventory for Trident at Hebbal.
So can you tell me the data of oberoi Gandikota. What is the total of rooms?
Gandikota is 20 keys.
Okay. And this is -- Oberoi Hebbal is 125 and this -- and Pune.
120 and 275 -- sorry, what am I saying? 250.
Okay, 250.
And Pune is 175.
We take the next question from Sakshi Chakra. Sakshi? We move on to the next question. It's from Amit Agicha.
Congratulations for the good set of numbers, and your presentation is excellent. I had a bookkeeping question. Like if I see the data from 2013 onwards, from last 2 years, 2023 and 2024, the operating margin has improved and showed a tremendous growth. It is about 30%, 35%. So would it be sustainable?
I would -- we'll do everything we can to sustain it. I hope we can, yes.
And the last question was are there any specific strategies to enhance customer loyalty, particularly in the Luxury and Corporate segments?
Sorry, could you just repeat the second part? The second question?
Are there any specific strategies to enhance customer loyalty, particularly in the Luxury and Corporate segment?
So I think our biggest strength and, again, this isn't my perspective, what I think is probably not so important, it's really what our guests think. And our guests overwhelmingly give us feedback that the level of service, the level of care we provide to guests to stay at our hotels is world-class. And we will continue with that effort.
We have great people working at our hotels who stand committed to putting our guests above all else. And I think with that strong foundation, we will be able to -- we do and we will be able to continue to provide very high levels of service and care to our guests. And people in our hotels live by the Oberoi Dharma. And the Oberoi Dharma is something our values really inspire us to provide -- support one another, of course, but also provide exceptional levels of service to our guests.
We'll take the next question from Karan Khanna.
So 3 specific questions from my side, Vikram. First, how do you think about building hotels and resorts versus buying out properties given the resilient balance sheet that you have? That's question number one.
Question number two, if you look at the quantum of growth that you are envisaging for the next 4 to 5 years. Again, the share of managed hotels and managed inventory in terms of the expansion is still quite less. How are you thinking about -- given the brand goodwill that you enjoy, how are you thinking about expanding the overall share of managed contracts in the portfolio? That's question number two.
And finally, third question, Vikram, when you look at some of your peers, in particular, let's say, in Indian hotels who laid out a 2030 strategy. So given the kind of expansion plans that you have in place, what sort of vision do you have in mind when you're looking at, let's say, 2030 and beyond.
Right. Thanks, Karan. So your first question was what do you -- just look at greenfield or brownfield as well. And we look at every opportunity. We shouldn't be -- we should be open, and I hope we are to all opportunities that present themselves. They obviously need to be the right kind of hotel, particularly if they're brownfield because we -- what we want to do is run successful hotels.
And having the right hotel, of course, our strength is service as well, but it's built on a foundation or on a platform of having the right hotel both from appealing to our guests and also in terms of efficiency, in terms of design and the facilities. So absolutely, we're open to everything. We evaluate everything. We do that in detail. And we will pursue both those opportunities wherever applicable.
On managed. The -- I'm actually very happy that we're doing a number of projects internally, whether it's Hebbal or Tirupati or Vizag or any of these projects. Again, the -- like I mentioned earlier, we do have certain criteria. We go through a huge amount of detail in the analysis that we do before moving forward with any of these investments, and our projections tend to be on the conservative side.
So I'm sure the returns will be very good from the investments that we make. And of course, that's not to say that we don't look at managed. We are absolutely keen to expand our footprint through both owned and managed hotels, and we work towards both those objectives, in fact on a daily basis.
And our vision for 2030, you asked, I've made an earlier statement saying that we would like to open 50 hotels by 2030. We will do everything we can to hold true to that statement.
Vikram, with your permission, there are a lot of questions on the Q&A. May I take them.
Sure. Please, please, whatever you like.
Okay. The first one is with Oberoi and being closed due to renovation. How do we see RevPAR growth going forward in second half of FY '25?
I think, Navin, I already answered that question. So we see strong demand. Everything indicates there's strong demand, and we will benefit from that in terms of occupancies and rents.
The next one, when do we expect Oberoi Bali to close for renovation and how you long do you think it will take for it to reopen?
Okay. We haven't finalized that yet. So we first have to do the -- get the consultants on board, do the mockup rooms, et cetera. And then once that starts, we'll then look at it. So I don't have any specific time lines to share with you at this point on Bali.
Next one is which company owns Oberoi Goa Bogmallo.
It's a managed hotel. It's not owned by EIH.
The next one. What is the status of the fourth floor renovation at Trident Nariman Point?
It's been finished.
Great. What led to improvement of occupancy in domestic portfolio in second quarter on sequential basis, usually, Q2 occupancy is lower than Q1.
I think, again, that's answered by the question on the segment-wise performance. So albeit from a low base, MICE has showed strong performance direct with strong. Corporate was -- I mean, I said we performed well in all segments. And that slide will give a flavor of how each segment has done historically based on the trend lines and how we're doing today or how we did in Q2, sorry.
Hrishikesh Bhagat from Kotak has a question. Why this cash flow statement of EIH or EIH Associate not reflecting increase in CapEx despite development pipeline. When should we see CapEx starting for owned properties?
Yes. So from the time that you -- it takes roughly at least a year to plan a hotel. And if you don't plan a hotel properly, then you want -- many unintended consequences can take place. You either exceed your capital spend, you design a less efficient hotel, there are changes and delays.
So really, we spend a lot of time in planning the hotel so that we can minimize, if not eliminate the points that I've made prior to this on delays, increased spend, et cetera. So many of these hotels are today in the planning stage.
Many congratulations for a wonderful set of numbers. Please, could you let us know opening dates for Oberoi Vanyavilas and Oberoi Rajgarh Palace, as we could get advantage of higher ARR during peak season. Can we expect rates similar to Six Senses Fort Barwara for Oberoi Rajgarh Palace as it is the only comparable property with us, I assumed.
So both of those will open next year. And that's given in the document as well. And all our Oberoi leisure hotels operate at a high average room rate. And I don't see any reason why these 2 hotels would be any different.
Could you please -- what are the changes made or additions have been done to the team to achieve the target of doubling keys in the given time line? I'll repeat that.
What changes have we made or what additions have been done to the team to achieve the target of doubling keys in the given time line? Historically, we have seen delays in opening new properties.
Yes. So I much prefer to look at the windscreen rather than focusing on a rearview mirror of the past. So -- and I don't know if I really want to talk about the changes we've made internally that to help not only drive growth, but then to ensure we run successful hotels. We have a track record of running good hotels. We give it our hearts and souls and I really am so grateful to our colleagues in our hotels who really put the guests needs above everything else.
And I have no reason to doubt that, that will not continue. So we will do everything we can to build these hotels, build these hotels well, run these hotels well, delight our guests, ensure they're profitable and no effort will be spared to achieve those objectives.
When do we expect Bandhavgarh Rajgarh properties to become operational? Also any clarity on the time line of Stoke Park hotel?
So again, those would open next year. It's given in the document, Vanyavilas and Rajgarh. And Stoke Park, it's probably -- we don't own the assets. So I'm not in a position to comment on Stoke Park.
Okay. There's a repetitive question, but I'll just read it out. What are the new hotels, which are going to be operational in the current financial year, particularly the status of Bhandavgarh and Rajgarh palace, which you've already answered.
Yes, I just -- yes, referred to those, yes. And the slide as well. The slide really gives those details.
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Okay. Sunny Sarkar, is the renovation in our [ Randacore ] property over. Were any new keys added in the hotel this year.
That's still underway and it will be finished early part of next year, and it's absolutely on track.
Sakshi Chabra asked what was the revenue for flight catering in Q2?
I don't -- we don't disclose that figure, really sorry.
Any major renovations planned for FY '26?
We have ongoing renovations big and small across our hotels. And of course, Grand is a major renovation.
Bhavit Kumar Kantaria. Could you please provide your comment on legal matters related to well of late PRS Oberoi and its impact on business of EIH.
I'm not here to comment on that.
Oberoi and Trident Nariman Point, how is the demand there. With new airport coming up at New Bombay, do you see it affecting occupancy?
Actually, what's been fantastic is the improvement in the road infrastructure in Bombay, and it's really transformed the city, people's commuting time, travel time. And I think it will really revitalize the south of Bombay. So we are very optimistic, and this is reflected in our numbers as well for Nariman point in the overall Mumbai.
Last question on the Q&A mode. Oberoi Vanyavilas and Oberoi Rajgarh Palace opening date will be next calendar year or financial year?
It will be both. So vanyavilas will open sooner. Rajgarh will be in the next financial year.
Friends, we're running out of time. So I'll just take last 2 questions. Mithun Aswath, please go ahead.
I just wanted to understand what is the CapEx that would be required for you to expand over the next 5 years? Because you have quite a lot on your plate. So I just wanted to understand how much would be done through internal accruals and how much debt would you require?
So let me comment on the debt, and then you can -- possibly along with the disclosures we've made or we can provide you with details of the disclosures we've made. But we do not go over a debt/equity ratio of 25%. And with all these projects, that will not be exceeded.
Right. And do you have the number in terms of the amount that you're spending CapEx?
Yes, I absolutely have the number with me. But we absolutely do have the number. And broadly, those details have been provided on the various projects with the stock exchange. But Navin, if we can -- we'll send you the details, and then perhaps you can pass?
Yes, yes. The other question I had was on F&B. How is that mix? And how is that growing?
Much [ definitely ] F&B continues to do well. We, in fact, renovated a large part of our business is in South Mumbai, is banqueting in terms of F&B at Trident Nariman Point. And if you recall, we had renovated the ballroom, which is at Trident Nariman Point, and guest feedback has been phenomenal. And we've also seen substantial increases as a result of that in banqueting revenue.
We need to, of course, upgrade our restaurants. And we would like to create world-class restaurants. For example, we opened ZIYA in the Oberoi Gurugram. I don't know if you're based in Delhi or Gurgaon. But if you, I'd really encourage you to dine there. Guest feedback, and this was done with Michelin Star Chef Vineet Bhatia, who is a former colleague of CLD, a student from many years ago, now to run some very fine restaurants like ZIYA in Bombay and ZIYA in Delhi.
So we'll continue to look at upgrading F&B and driving F&B revenue, partnering with chefs, both in India and outside. Baoshuan, for example, is a restaurant in at the Oberoi Delhi one, the Chinese restaurant where we partnered with a 2-star Michelin chef. So we continue to look at F&B as a big opportunity in our hotels.
Yes. I'm just trying to say in your presentations, there's just some feedback. If you could give us some breakup of F&B as well as the breakup of rooms in terms of your expansion plans, that would be great.
Thank you for that. We will certainly evaluate that. And if we can do it, there's no reason why we won't. So first of all, my apologies, it's not there. And secondly, thank you for your suggestion. Third of all, absolutely we'll get it and hopefully be able to include it going forward.
We take the last question for the afternoon from Rajiv Bharti.
So just with regard to Trident Goa, so that particular bit was there part of your presentation, I think, in Q4 '23. We don't find mention of that this time around. And similarly, there is a [ research ] called Al Zorah, 174 keys, even that is missing. If you can comment there.
So sorry, I can't -- on Trident Goa, I'll need to come back to you because we're doing an Oberoi Goa, not a Trident Goa. And that's an EIH owned piece of land and an EIH hotel. But let me -- I'm not clear on Trident, so I need to just check that and come back to you if that's all right. And Al Zorah, we already -- well, we're not pursuing the second hotel in Al Zorah.
Sure. And 1 bit -- so there was a -- in the notes to accounts, there is a statement that with regard to the Mashobra asset, there has been an offer from you for a settlement with the [ sigurn ] of Madhya Pradesh. Would like to throw some light on that matter.
I don't want to comment on that at this point of time. Rajiv, thank you so much. And I'm sorry I didn't answer your questions. I apologize that I didn't comment on Mashobra and your other question. Sorry, it slipped my mind, the other question you asked. But I apologize that I probably didn't answer them to the extent you would have answered -- you'd like to get them answered. And that's because a lot of this information -- well, Mashobra is subjudiced in any way. So I don't really want to comment on with Mashobra at this point in time. So I apologize nevertheless.
Friends, as I mentioned in the chat. Mr. Oberoi has prior commitment and we need to wind up this webinar. In case there are any follow-up or unanswered questions request you to write to me, and we'll take it up with them.
Vikram, to you for your closing remarks?
Thank you. There were so many questions today. So first of all, thank you for participating. Thank you for your questions. I did my best to answer them and I apologize again for the few questions that I chose not to answer.
Friends, I think there's a technical issue. Don't hang up for a minute, please.
Exceptional levels of service to our guests. I just wanted to thank our incredible colleagues who work tirelessly to look after our guests and our success is really driven by them. And for that, I am most grateful. And Q3 and Q4, we'll be buoyant and we look for strong financial performance going forward.
Thank you very much for Mr. Oberoi and Mr. Das for par taking time out to interact with the investors. Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen, for joining us for this webinar, and I look forward to hosting Mr. Oberoi again for Q3 and Q4. Thank you, and have a wonderful day.
And Navin, a very big thank you to you too. Thanks so much. Really appreciate it.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Bye-bye. Thank you Mr. Oberoi.