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Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q3 FY '23 Earnings Conference Call of CSB Bank hosted by Axis Capital Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded.
I now hand the conference over to Mr. Manish Shukla from Axis Capital Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Rajita, and welcome, everyone, for this call. We are pleased to host CSB Bank's Q3 FY '23 results.
From the management team, we have Mr. Pralay Mondal, MD and CEO; Mr. B.K. Divakara, CFO, and their management colleagues. We have some opening remarks from Mr. Mondal. And after that, we will open the floor for Q&A.
Mr. Mondal, over to you, sir.
Thank you Manish and thank you everybody for joining the analyst call today on our Q3 results for FY '23. I will give a slight preview of what's happening globally and then quickly moving to the CSB Bank results.
So as we all know that the global economic order stands tested following the chaos resulting from monetary tightening in most parts of the world. Lower food and energy supplies, elevated prices, debt distress and so on and so forth.
International organizations including IMF, World Bank, OECD have downgraded their global growth projections. Relatively, of course, India is in a slightly better place. And though inflation trends are still showing some moderation -- some ugly signs, but I think moderation has been lately in play. We'll know on 1st of this on February the Fed what the decision they take, and we also have the budgetary announcements in India and also await their decision.
So most likely the whole world is expecting somewhere between 25% to 50%, and there is a high probability of our 25%, which means in India, I think the rate cycle is coming to a reasonably stable situation at this, there could be one more and then pause or pause and then give a slightly different outlook. But whichever way it goes, I think things are now stabilizing quite a bit.
On the domestic side, of course, there is a reasonable pickup in manufacturing rural demand, which was a little bit of a concern, it has started improving when we saw the results of some of the FMCG companies last quarter. And the banking has never been in a better place than where we are today. And we have seen most of the banks coming out of their NPA challenges. And I think in the next 1 or 2 years, the CapEx cycle will also start picking up. And we saw double-digit growth after a while in the banking ecosystem. Even I think the January numbers right now, last fortnight, I think, was 6.5% in terms of traded growth, which means things are looking a lot better in this part of the world.
Having said that, we are, of course, connected to the global order. The liquidity is a little bit of a challenge, of course. It is quite volatile. Funding cost is going up for the banking ecosystem. Overnight it was hovering between 6% to 6.5%. So there are challenges as well when it comes to the funding. We see most of the banks are trying to manage their LCR and the [indiscernible] this quarter. And hopefully, things will stabilize with more government spending coming in and liquidity is in little bit. The GDP estimates likely to grow by 7%, though last estimate was 6.8%.
And overall, I think the CPI...
[Technical Difficulty]
So I'm not sure where I got dropped up. But coming to the CSB specifics, I think Q3 FY '23 has been a good operating quarter on most parameters, operating parameters I'll say. Net profit of INR 391 crores, up by 19% Y-o-Y.
For the quarter ended, the net profit is at INR 155.95 crores, which is up by 29% versus Q2 FY '23, and that's quite a significant achievement in my view, Q-on-Q. Noninterest income ex-treasury posted 65% increase in Q3 versus Q3 FY '22.
And when we look at the noninterest income, excluding treasury and PSL income it is 68%. And for the 9 months Y-o-Y, it is 40% growth. So this is what I've been highlighting and we will deliberate this when we get into the Q&A session that I was telling that we are trying to get a core noninterest income closer to -- in double digits, we were very low single digit before. And now, we have moved into the double-digit. I think this quarter, we are around 13%. And we -- our aim will be to be in the 14%, 15% range in the medium term as our overall franchise grows.
Provisioning buffer of about INR 200 crores over and above the regulatory payments. This includes contingency provisioning, which used to call COVID before -- COVID provisioning of INR 106 crores, and another INR 90-odd crores based on provisioning, which are doing over and over the regulatory provisioning.
NIM has been stable, if at all it has grown slightly though I don't get too much into the NIM because as quarters go by, NIM will normalize over a period of time. So as I've always said, we'll try to hold it somewhere around 5%. This quarter is 5.8%.
Overall, it's around 5.52%, but we'll deliver that subsequently while we get into the discussion mode.
ROE improved from 1.83% on a yearly basis and quarter-on-quarter 1.87% to 2.37%. This shows that how our core operating performance of the bank is improving.
I think the good news on the liability front has been that we had a 19% Y-o-Y growth. And again, the industry growth of around 9% to 10%. And that gives us a little bit of a comfort -- of course on a low base, which we understand. And hence, we have to continue to work on it. CASA growth has not been that encouraging. It's around 8% growth, and hence CASA ratio has come down. Cost of deposits reduced from 4.3% to 4.9%. Again, we'll deliver at this because this is only a transient phase.
Quarter-on-quarter cost of deposits has gone up. So as you can see in the investor presentation.
On the asset growth, net advances grew by 26% when you -- or 24% whichever you to take it depending on if you are taking with write-off and without the write-off of portfolio. So 24% to 26% is our asset growth. Our industry has grown by 15% to 16%. Gold portfolio ratio of 51% and 9% Q-on-Q.
And I want to mention one thing here because a lot of it things that gold portfolio is growing because of price increase. But at least in our case, it has not been the case. We have been very consciously not increased the available price just to ensure that we get our LTV under much better risk governance. And hence, our tonnage growth has been 49%, while our gold loan portfolio has grown by 51%, which probably is very unique in the industry. Other -- I mean -- and this has also helped us in bringing on the LTV overall I think to around 75-odd percentage.
Yield on advances, we are around 11.02% with an improvement of 21 basis points. This is where we need to focus on and we need to take it up because cost of deposits will continue to go up.
And if you have to retain our NIM, we have to take the yield up slightly. On the asset quality metrics, it's a very, very good performance, I must say. Even when you look at industry standards, we are probably one of the best there right now. GNP 1.45 and NPA 0.42. PCR with the write-off is 92. Even if you take -- without that it is 71%, which was around I think 68% last quarter. So I think the key point here is our PCR has improved while our GNP and NNP has come down significantly.
Contingent provisions, as I said before, accounted in the books is higher than the NPA, which is very, very unique. And we have continued our accelerated NPA provisioning [indiscernible] requirements and continue to hold a contingency provision of the INR 106 crores, which I talked about.
We have fully provided for the SI portfolio. This -- based on our regulatory guidance, which came -- I think in December, it came. So we have now our entire SI portfolio has been provided for. So whatever recovery we get from our SI portfolio now will be spread into the P&L, and it is now fully provided for, and we took a hit of around INR 12 crores in our P&L this quarter. We have a robust capital base, it has just grown further to 25.78%. So we have to tell our business, it tends to grow the business. And this has happened at a time when we have grown the asset book by 24% or 26%, whichever we look at it. And even then our CRAR has improved. Our risk rates have gone down further. A little bit of operational risk has gone up, but credit risk has gone down significantly. And overall, our risk weights are one of the lowest in the markets -- in the industry.
Shareholder value creation, our book value has grown by -- in line with our profitability growth, somewhere around 29%. I think it has grown. It has reached around 67%. And the EPS annualized is 22.54% ROE. Again, it's 19.86, so which are very, very good with a CRAR of 25.78%, the ROEs of 19.86% is a good ratio to be proud of.
Investments of the future, we are continuing to add 100 branches. We'll continue to do that next year. Our Head of Retail is trying to see that if we can try and put those branches a little earlier in the year so that we get some benefits out of the branches. This year we will open 100 branches.
And on the technology side, it's the biggest investment we are making -- leadership and technology side. We have a tremendous amount of -- I'm personally involved along with our CIO on the technology strategy for the bank for the next 3 to 5 years and we are going to make significant investment into technology, whether it is core, system LOS, LMS, CRM, RAM, I mean, everything. We have completely changed the entire wraparound system of the technology because that's where the real growth of the bank is going to happen.
So in conclusion, what I want to say is we are absolutely on track, this is what we had communicated to you in our last few calls on our SBS -- Sustain, Build and Scale 2030 strategy. We are currently in the build phase. Sustenance, we have demonstrated, we are doing well. The liability franchise, we have started picked up because that's what we build the future of the bank. We have tied up with market leaders like CRISIL, OneCard, UB loans, et cetera. UB for SME, OneCard for the credit cards, CRISIL for various initiatives.
And also, we are doing a lot of centralization of processes to ensure that we have better controls and management cost is better as you have seen that our CTI has come down this quarter. But quickly, I want to add that our -- in my comments, we have always said that we like to keep the CTI somewhere around 60% while we are investing into the future.
So this quarter is an aberration, but I would like to keep it somewhere around 58% to 60%, so that we have enough room to invest into the business. And by the end of 2030, we'll bring it down to -- between 40% to 45%.
Our new verticals has already been launched. Personal loans, education loans, home loans, CV, auto loans. Then CE, HCA, commercial equipment, health care. So policies, processor systems, everything is in place. Credit cards have started off, as I said before. Retail growth -- it is too early to say retail growth, but let me put it this way, retail engine has got restarted, okay? We have got the leadership in place. Gradually, we're building the businesses.
On the transaction banking side, we have played a separate vertical. So we will look at CMS, we are looking at supply chain. We are going to build some of the systems around that because ultimately, these are system-driven businesses.
Wholesale Banking is working on the entire coverage strategy, reworking on that entire coverage strategy. We just -- because there are so many things happening in the bank right now, so many projects are running, it's just unbelievable. So we have just rolled out our project management tool called Rapid. We have internally branded it Rapid. So on project management tool, I have said that no project will be there in the bank, which is not on the project management tool.
So everybody through that dashboard can see where it is, how it is progressing and things like that. Otherwise, we lose track. So overall, the progressive transformation journey undertaken in the bank is clear towards achieving the vision set for the bank in the medium to long term while the improved results for this quarter-on-quarter is giving us the confidence that we are progressing in the right direction.
It also remains with us of the responsibility of what we need to deliver in the coming quarters based on the commitments, which we made to the market. And I'm very, very conscious. Me and my team is very, very conscious of that.
So in short, what I can say before I hand it over is we have almost in this quarter demonstrated everything which we said that we'll focus on. Growth, we are growing by 9% last year. We are growing by 24%, 25%, 26%, whichever is the right number we want to see. Liability franchise has started delivering. Our NIM has sustained, our cost to income has sustained, our credit growth has continued to be negative. At the same time, I would say that it won't be negative forever, so we will provision for that.
And we had some issues this quarter because we are on a very high base last year, same quarter, Q3. We had a significant recovery from the provisioning of gold loans, which we did in past quarter last year.
So even -- in spite of that fact, we have grown by 5% Q-on-Q. This quarter vis-a-vis the same quarter last year in spite of the fact that there was a very, very high recovery last year same time.
And this has happened primarily because of various parameters ratio, which I talked about, but also noninterest. So let me give you one data. On noninterest income, 9-months [indiscernible], ex-PSLC -- PSLC is the PSLC commission because we had excess on PSL, we have grown by 40% on a 9-month basis and 58% on a year-on-year quarter basis.
And what it means is that our core noninterest fee, which is more sustainable and doesn't depend on cycles. So PSLC is a cycle business because it depends on what is the premium that is available in the market.
The treasury income is a cycle basis. So treasury, we -- so at treasury, we had a variance of INR 18 crores. In PSLC, we had a variance of 30. Last year, we're at 33-point [indiscernible] something. This year, we have about just 33.6. So within this INR 258 crores, 30 and 18, and 58.
And then this suddenly the provision had to do another INR 12 crores. So all of this together, INR 60 crores is something, which appeared out of nowhere this year, right, and which was not our [indiscernible] markets. So we had to do our own stuff to ensure we get a better recovery, we get a better fee income. That's one more thing, we have done a very, very good job on the recovery side. And that's what helped us in either upgrading accounts or getting recovery from return of accounts.
So overall, I think while the headline numbers looks reasonably kind of a moderate, but when you deep-dive into these numbers -- which all of you on the call know much better than me, I'm a business guy -- all of you are experts of that. When you deep dive, you will see a reasonably consistent operating performance and every operating parameters are improving by the quarter, which gives me a lot of confidence that you should be able to take the bank forward in line with what we have committed.
So I think I've spoken enough. So with that, I stop here and hand it over to Mr. Divakara if you have to say something and then we'll open it for Q&A.
You have covered it elaborately, Pralay. So I don't think anything needs to be said from my side.
But in question-and-answers session, if something needs to be supplemented, I will do that. Otherwise elaborately you have covered all the areas of our performance.
Thank you. So we can take the questions.
[Operator Instructions]
The first question is from the line of [ Shubhranshu Mishra ] from [ Philip Capital ].
Just wanted to understand a bit on the gold loans. One is what proportion of our disbursement is coming from balance transfers from NBFCs and what is getting originated by our own branches organically?
Second is, we've been seeing tonnage growth as well as account growth, what proportion of the incremental as well as on the book are above 3 lakhs what is 1 to 3 lakhs and what will be less than 1 lakh, those are my 2 questions.
Thank [Shubhranshu] for your question. So on your past question, it's around 40% comes from balance transfer. Rest is new-to-bank because we have got a good distribution and the sales strategy on that. So that is -- and we have a brand also on the gold loan side of the business.
On your second question was on tonnage growth. So what is the question on tonnage?
Tonnage, sir, tonnage or AUM we can split it that way. What percentage of the AUM is below INR 1 lakh? What is between 1 lakh to 3 lakh? What is more than 3 lakhs on the AUM as well on the disbursement that we can see from that.
Okay. So I think I don't have that exact such a breakup, but I can give you some heads up on this. So our portfolio average ticket size is between 1 to 2 lakhs, okay? And our -- and we're coming to disbursement are incremental, our tonnage grew by 49%, while our customer acquisition -- customer addition grew by some 37% or 36% or something like that, which means that incrementally, our tonnage per customer is only going up, okay?
There is a third question also you had?
It was around this only, sir, so the split between -- basically, one can infer that this tonnage as well as the account growth, almost 40% is coming from balance transfer from NBFC?
That's right.
Both. Okay.
Or other banks, which every way. Balance transfer is around 40%, and tonnage growth is faster than the customer acquisition, and our average ticket size is between 1 to 2 lakhs.
The next question is from the line of [Sonal Minhas] from Prescient Investment Management.
Sir, I had the first question on the CASA growth, which is a bit muted. Just wanted to understand from a bottoms up level as to what is the limitation for the bank to grow its CASA. Because the branch net is growing on one. Is it technology? Is it a product? If you could just explain -- that's my first question.
Yes. So no, no, that's a very, very valid and relevant question. So you also know that building a CASA franchise is not an overnight job. So we have to build up our proper franchise. Meanwhile, we can't wait for the franchise to grow to grow our bank. So you can understand that in 1 year itself, we have grown the bank from 9% to 25%, from 24%, 26% from the asset side and the liability growth grew to 19%.
So CASA cannot grow like that overnight. CASA needs -- as you rightly said, product process, distribution, the right kind of customer segmentation, acquisition, sales. And more importantly, surround products, which is media retail assets -- because just opening a CASA account will not give us value. It has to run through that account. We have to have his payments to the account and all of that stuff.
So on our CASA side, also, you need to have a transaction banking unit to have this only based on the value created for those customers, these are very complex initiatives. The good news is that we have started most of these initiatives now in the bank. For example, we have started our sales structure. That's why we could grow our number of accounts by almost 75%, 76% last year.
Our quality of these accounts are much better than what we're doing. And hence, the value of these new customers are also better.
Also, we have launched our retail asset products, credit card products and hence the payments that will go through, the EMIs that we'll go through, it will help us. On the transaction banking side, we have created a separate vertical on that. And we are also being the technology through which this throughput will come. CASA as you know, whether it's current or savings is a throughput business, right?
One can always buy CASA. So we are not saying that, that is something which we'll do or not do, but most banks, almost everyone does it. And it has its own benefits in terms of LCR and many other things, so I'm not saying that's a bad strategy. But it's just that we have not reached there yet. So to that extent, because we are in a hurry to grow in our difficult liability environment. Because even established banks like HDFC, Axis, ICICI, Kotak, IndusInd, everybody is struggling on the liability growth, that's why the systemic growth is 9%, and we'll appreciate that. In spite of the fact we have grown by 19%.
But yes, CASA is a slightly high road and we have to do the building blocks to reach there. And a lot of -- me, our retail head here, all of us have built CASA businesses in various, at least 3 large banks before. So we know how to do it, and we will go step by step. There is no shortcut to that success.
Sir, I really appreciate the long answer, but is it more the senior leadership or the technology, basically, which will you probably...
Yes, senior team leadership understands what needs to be done. Technology, we are putting it there but technology, as you know, that it takes some time to build and also the products around it, right? So even if I -- actually, I have myself or my retailer, we have handled the largest products in the market. But that does not mean that I can do it today, right? You have to build those products. You have to launch those products, you have to repay a franchise, you have to run the EMI through the savings account, et cetera. And on parallel, you have to get those customers also.
So when all of this together, we understand the complexity of the task. Having said that, I'm not saying that -- you will see. For example, last quarter, we grew CASA by 16%; our FD grew 7%, but still CASA ratio came down. That's the nature of this. When you grow faster, even if your CASA growth is faster than FD growth, your CASA ratio will continue to come down, okay? That's math.
Having said that, this quarter, I have no such excuse because even CASA itself has come down, but I suppose that it has happened to most of the banks in the system. Because suddenly, the gap between the SA and the CA and the [indiscernible] is so high that money is moving. This happens in cycles. So we are no exception.
But yes, I'm not shying away from -- I'm being very honest about it. We have to do a lot of work to build a CASA franchise, and no bank has done it in short time. No bank has done it.
No, no, I agree. Sir, but is there a time line like, for example, you have time lines for everything, and that's really good to know on each of the calls. Is there a timeline where we can say that the CASA product, the technology and the system is basically fixed maybe 1 year from now or 18 months or 2 years from now. And hence, we are on a growth part from there on. Because that's a sustainability bid for the for the bank? Yes.
Yes. I'll give you an answer for this. Clear answer. We will start seeing CASA growth for us within the next 12 months, okay? Having said that, the real CASA franchise, it will take 2 to 3 years to build. Because what is the real CASA franchise. When you look at HDFC, Axis, et cetera, a real CASA franchise is when you have at least 2 or 3 relevant products with the customer and the EMI runs through that product.
When you have a customer segmentation starting from a high net worth to the -- that pyramid structure. When you have a transaction banking where you do collections, you do CMS, you do everything part of supply chain. For this I need technology, which we are building, we are changing our core system, by the way, okay?
So core system takes anywhere between 15 to 18 months to fully get operational, if we're lucky, okay. And the surround system in parallel we are building. So we have on our project management tool, we have put all these timelines as you rightly said.
Having said that, none of you will have the patience for me to play out these time lines. This will happen 3 years down the line, 2 years on the line. But meanwhile, I have to also ensure that next 1 year we get our CASA growth and we know how to get it, we are going to execute that, and you'll see the CASA growth within the next year.
I have a second question, if I may, if I'm allowed to. Yes, sir. Sir, similar question on SME, I wanted to see the SME book and it's been kind of flattish, not making any critical remark or whatever, but just wanted to see understand, is the market actually somewhere not of high quality because of which basically you have tapered down the growth of that segment. You're not happy with the quality of approvals which are coming in SME. Just want to understand our market perspective and then drill it down to your company.
So I'll give a very honest answer here. We have an old book in SME, okay? And that is also running off. So while we are disbursing a reasonable amount per quarter, but we're also running off some part of the old book, okay? And some part of the old book is running off is not making me very unhappy also, okay? Because we may not -- when I want to look at those books on a risk adjusted basis, I may not like to have that book with me at that point of time. So I'm okay with it running it off. .
So in the process, I'm strengthening the quality of the SME book. I'm adding more business on our fresh disbursement and fresh customer addition, but still, my growth is not coming. That is one part of the answer.
Second part of the answer is that we have this. When I -- when we have limited liability, and I have businesses which are coming at yields, which is giving me almost 0 risk, okay?
And I have to give other ratios and other returns in the short term -- I know this is not a very long-term good strategic view. But in the short term, I also have to deliver.
So where would I deploy that when I have limited liability. So given that, because I have to also raise money for investments in technology and distribution and other CASA, which you talked about. For that, I have to very tactically deploy that. And as long as I'm able to deploy at a much more ROA, if you appreciate my ROI is 2.37% this quarter, okay. And then that ROI for my investment into this thing. So we are -- when they're getting business at a particular yield, I'm refusing those businesses.
And in spite of the fact that HDFC, Axis, ICICI, they are happily doing those businesses and not a bad business to be, but on the risk-adjusted basis and on the NIM, I have to get -- I am saying that I will rather deploy the liability somewhere else than technical businesses. That's why, to some extent, our SME and wholesale hangs a little tight at this point of time.
But I also understand the value of franchise. So we are building those franchise as well as in parallel, okay? So I also believe that in the market, gradually the risk-adjusted returns are gradually starting to show now. But until now the risk-adjusted returns on SME was not -- I mean, at least it didn't suit our appetite, okay?
So to that extent, we are a little careful in the SME part of the business given that the risk-adjusted returns we're leading.
Having said that, now we are -- also the other banks, what to do is they will do those lower risk adjusted return and then they will do a lot of income to cross-sell of other products and other relationships. We don't have -- not only top up, but other fees and liability and other businesses, CMS, supply chain, so many other things. So they end up on the financing all that on the wholesale side.
So since we are launching these products gradually since we don't have those on a [indiscernible], we don't have those income as yet, for us taking those decisions purely based on NIM or our trades is not as easy as it is for some of those other banks. So we are competing in a difficult market. So that's why we are saying that we will be prudent in the way we build these businesses.
But in the long term, let me tell you, our long term is very clear. 30% retail; 20%, gold; and rest, half and half between SME and wholesale, maybe SME is around 20%, 21%, and wholesale is around 30%. So that is not going anywhere, okay?
The next question is from the line of [Pruthul Shah] from Anubhuti Advisors.
Congrats on good set of numbers. My question is with respect to the growth in advances. So Y-o-Y, we have seen that advances in growth by 26%. However, gold loan book has grown by 51%. So basically, other than gold, the book has only grown by 10%.
So just wanted to know that why this is not increasing in tandem to the overall loan book. So you already spoke about SME, but if you can give a highlight on the corporate loan and retail loan, what is the outlook on that?
No, absolutely great question. So let me start with retail. In a way, I covered it in my first question, I think that we are building the retail franchise on the back of technology, products and processes. Retail assets build-out takes at least 12 to 18 months. But good news is that we have started our journey and we are starting to do build. This includes retail, agri. It includes micro finance, it includes the entire [indiscernible] business, CV, CE, home loans, HCF, health care, all of it -- to the credit cards.
So good news is that now we have started each of this, but to see visibility of this on the balance sheet, you will need to give us at least a year, okay? So that's on the retail side. But retail, we are firmly on playbook gradually in these products. And it will gradually issue up.
SME has already answered, so I don't want to duplicate the answer. On the wholesale side of the business, what you have done is we have 2 parts of our portfolio. One is the DA portfolio, and one is the normal wholesale business, which is primarily mid-market, emerging corporates, and we have our little bit of NBFC portfolio also.
So from that perspective, I think there again, we have to build our products. We are increasing our coverage strategy. Wholesale is around 30% of our overall portfolio including the DA. So there is -- in fact today only with our head of wholesale I was just discussing before that, how do you need to increase our coverage, et cetera.
And also, please understand that we -- our quality of the portfolio incrementally we don't -- almost never will we do below BBB. And most of our NBFCs are A and above.
So given that perspective, I think we are very conscious of the risk-adjusted return. That's why we are very carefully building it up.
Wholesale franchise does not take that kind of a time what a retail franchise will take or SME franchise will take. I mean, retail will take longer. SME will take medium and wholesale will take shortest. There, we want to really press the pedal there and grow.
But yes, still we need to get the transaction banking and also with the size of the balance sheet, which we have. Our wholesale team will not get an entry into many of the places where they want to. That's why they're choosing the right segments where we also -- and also we are very conscious of the pricing we do.
So that's where we will remain at this kind of level for the time being. And we will -- but we will start seeing some -- in terms of business needs, it will not change too much from here. I mean gold loan will be probably below 50%. SME will be around 12% to 15% in the next 6 months and wholesale will be remaining, including [indiscernible] somewhere around 30%.
Okay. Got it. So just can you guide a number to it that other than gold loan this SME, retail and corporate loans, what is the growth in loan book that we're expecting going forward in this book?
So I understand your question. So from here on, if I take growth on SME and wholesale. Only assuming that's the base where we are sitting on the base on that, how much will grow on retail and wholesale -- sorry, retail, SME and wholesale and retail includes agri and microfinance, we should be able to grow somewhere around 15%.
Okay. Okay. Got it.
And beyond that, I don't know how to tell you . Practically, I don't want to do it. You know why? Because I have to continue to deliver the name till our technology is in play because I have to make a lot of investment there. So my constraint is liability.
So if I have 20% growth in liability and if I have a 25% growth, and hypothetically, I'm not giving a forward-looking number. Suppose I have a 20% growth in liability with the CD ratio of 81%. And if I have asset growth of 25%, I would still like SME and wholesale to be around 15%, and rest coming from gold. Purely because it's a tactical play for the next 1, 1.5 years.
But again, long term, I told you that will remain. 20, 30. 20, gold; 30, retail; 20, 21 SME and rest wholesale.
The next question is from the line of [Prerit Choudhary] from Green Portfolio.
So I have a couple of questions. First one is as our employee costs have been growing at a faster.
And for last 3, 4 quarters, our business per employee has been falling. So when can we expect this to bottom out for the business?
So do we have all your questions, let me answer this question first. So there are two ways of looking at it. Business part -- I mean, is a cost line only.
So if you look at our overall cost to income, that is within control, right? I mean, I've said 55 to 60 where we have even there. And when I have given that kind of mean that kind of outlook, consider that our employee costs will continue to go up. Business per employee is something where you have to understand that we are adding a lot more frontline stuff in terms of acquisitions, sales. Somebody asked a question on how [indiscernible] retail liability, how will you add more accounts, how you will bill CASA, that can only happen when you expand use sales force out there, but they come at a very reasonable cost, right? So they are not very costly resources.
So business per employee will always be a little bit of a challenge when -- because we don't outsource too much of our super employee outside. A lot of other banks including all my [indiscernible] organizations, specialty assets and our accounts and all these other businesses, everything is outsourced, the frontline sales staff, DSA, all of that. So we are not doing too much of all that.
So given that perspective, my business per employee, I'm not giving our outlook where it will improve significantly from here because the number of employees will go up, their cost will go down because the front-end sales staff is going up big time. So that is on that front.
My cost income will remain between 55% to 60%, closer to 60%, that's not because of employee cost, that will be because of technology cost. Okay? And I'm telling you next year, we'll see huge investment is going to go into technology in terms of both CapEx and OpEx, okay? So that was the first question.
Yes. Next question is for the company recently issued a new credit card with OneCard. So if you can give a number how many cards were issued in the recent quarter?
So we have just started. So it's not a number which is too much of importance at this point of time. And also what happens is you must understand as a franchise, we have limited credit qualified customers whom we will offer all these products. So we have to add new customers in the coming quarters.
So this product is also in a way not to create great credit card business, but to get new good quality credit qualified customers to the bank who can also build CASA, which I have already told before in my previous calls.
So given that perspective, we have -- I think we have just added around 2,000, 2,500 cards now. Maybe next quarter, we'll add another 10,000 or so. But more importantly, I want to see this as one of the other products. Because we don't have too many products at this point of time. This is one more product, and it's a very premium product. If you see this product and see the value that and digitally-enabled product. We think that this one more way to knock the door of the customer to open a relationship with us. And our strategy is not cross-sell of credit cards to CASA, our strategy is cross-sell of CASA to credit card customers. So because we need to build up a better quality CASA franchise, which will take a little time.
So credit card is a very important business for us from that perspective.
Understood. I had one last question. It's more related to the recent news and related to the Adani, so do we have any exposure to the Adani group in our corporate loan book?
I was jokingly saying before this call started, that this question is going to the other banks and did not come to us. Because we don't even have the balance sheet to give loans to Adani. I mean we can have a 50 crore CD or something like that, et cetera. but that is nothing. But otherwise, we don't have any exposure.
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The next question is from the line of Mona Khetan from Dolat Capital.
Yes. Sir, firstly, on the SME side, if you could share the disbursement made by the bank over the last 3 quarters, the quantum of disbursement that will help.
I will just tell you, last quarter or last..
Last quarter, Q1, Q2, Q3 it will be useful.
So I think we are disbursing incremental disbursement, [indiscernible] disbursement is somewhere around INR 350 crores to INR 450 crores. I don't exactly remember the number, some are in that level, last night I saw that. But we have lost more than that in terms of either we have run them off or utilization has gone down in certain places because of rates and things like that. So broadly around INR 350 crores, INR 450 crores of disbursements we have done.
Okay. And we have seen some BTLs as well?
In SME you know a lot of BT happens in SME, so BT will be a part of this, yes.
Okay. Okay. And when it comes to your advances made, what would be the share of EBLR and MCLR loans in the full?
Our -- mostly wholesale is on MCLS, okay? And most of our SME is EBLR. But this is becoming less relevant anymore because interest rates are peaking right now, right? So the benefits of these are gradually going to fade away and the impact of cost of funds will start kicking in. So that's why I said in the beginning itself, that 5.8, don't read this too seriously on the name.
Right. So wholesale and SME would together would be say about 30%, if I have to exclude the direct payment and stuff?
Gold is around 40. Wholesale is around 30. SMEs around 12. 40-plus percentage between wholesale and retail -- wholesale and SME, 42%.
Okay. And gold would be entirely fixed?
Gold is mostly externally, mostly fixed. Because these are short term, gold loan is short term it doesn't matter.
Got it, got it. And on the deposit side, we have seen a very solid sequential growth at 8%. So if you could just give some color of where the sequential growth is coming from? Is it largely led by wholesale deposits, certificate of deposits, et cetera, or a larger share by retail department?
On CD, I must say that we are lesser than where we started the year with, okay? So CD book is -- I don't know whether you give the data or not, but it is somewhere between INR 300 and INR 400 crores. When we started the year, it was higher than that. So I don't think CD actually has come down, not gone up. I'm not saying it will not go up again, but it is just -- it is not that material and among most of the banks, our CD -- our component of CD now deposits as a percentage is also one of the lowest. So that's not there.
On the wholesale question, which you said it depends on what is -- I just want to clarify because it's a recorded call.
No, so the interbank deposits.
Interbank is not there, okay? But on wholesale, I thought that -- see, there are 2 definitions group gets, okay, which are mostly short term and things like that. And the other one is what RBI classification says are wholesale, which is also retail but they are treated as wholesale. So our -- like most banks, we also have, on an incremental basis, last quarter, more than 50%, almost 60% of our business by RBI definition is wholesale, okay? .
But you can easily say -- look at another issue and see about question you are asking is what is our LCR. We ended the LCR at 124%. How many banks have really done at that kind of percentage?
So that cannot be a purely wholesale, wholesale kind of a thing, a lot of these are retail actually.
So deposit franchise has to be seen in 2, 3 parts. What is the overall cost of funds of the bank. What is the tenor of the deposit. What is the LCR of the bank and what is the CD of the bank, okay? So CDA, we are one of the lowest, and I told you it is between INR 300 crores to INR 400 crores. Now it has come down actually, it has run off, some of that has run off as we're talking. Our LCR is 124%. Our cost of deposits whatever 4.0% -- it's something 4.8% or something like that. And that will give you the answer where we are.
Right. Right, sure. And when it comes to your loan-to-deposit ratio, what would be a comfortable level to you? Where could it peak rather?
In the current scenario, I will say that I am willing to go up to 90%. But I was quite pleasantly surprised to see we're coming down this quarter at 81% from our 84-odd percent last quarter. But 84%, 85%, I don't remember, I think 85%. But it has come down actually this quarter, but that may not be the trend. I mean I think in the current regime with liquidity where it is, 85% is quite [indiscernible] right now.
Okay. Sure. And just lastly, we are seeing very low slippages, good recoveries in your case especially this fiscal close to 1% and the slippages is what we're seeing through. What was your guidance on slippages from a [ dominary ] perspective as we go ahead in FY '24, '25. Where could the normalize slippages be for CSB Bank?
See, we -- see, we are a very conservative bank. Our management is also very conservative. So that's why you're seeing some of the growth, which you are not taking because on SME and wholesale because of risk adjustment returns and not in line with what our conservative thought processes, okay?
Gold loan anyway, the NPL and the slippages are very, very low, okay? Slippages can happen, but we recover that. So gold loan is not a real issue.
And some of our old portfolio on the retail, which was slipping that has now started -- that is now gradually going to become negligible over a period of time. And we are also getting upgrades and recovery from some of the old SME portfolio and the retail portfolio as well.
Not so much retail, but more from home loans, LAP and SME portfolio. So given this perspective, I cannot give a guidance on this. But I'm very happy. I'm sure you are that we have a negative credit cost today. Very few people have negative credit cost. We have traveled the whole year with that kind of negative credit cost. And I hope that we can continue that for this quarter as well. I don't know. Hopefully, we will.
But next year, obviously, will not be a negative credit cost. But in terms of slippages, I think we will continue to be good, okay? I don't see -- because neither we have a chunky kind of 1 or 2 accounts, we don't have too much of a chunky business, nor we have too much of a stress in our portfolio. And anyway, we are holding a contingency provision. We don't know how to take care of that. So we are constantly working with our auditors.
So we have a contingency provision of INR 106 crores in any way. So to that extent, you cannot adjust that, but you can have a formula for that over a period of next 3, 4 years. So to that extent, I don't see a major challenge in terms of slippages or NPA or credit quality. But we may not have our negative credit cost. That is unreal.
The next question is from the line of Pallavi Deshpande from Sameeksha Capital.
I just wanted to understand again a bit more on the deposit growth. What would be the outlook going ahead? And again, like you mentioned, you have to balance between the savings and terms. So we can expect more term deposit growth. Would that be the strategy for the next one year?
Yes. So if we have to see -- at the end of the day, when you are sitting on our 81% CSB ratio and I said that our comfort is at 85%, and we own like bridge 90%, which obviously means that if we want to grow at the same kind of level for as such, we need to grow at least around 20% on the deposit side as well.
Now some part of that will do happen from term deposits because CASA takes its own time. Having said that, we will grow on this quarter-on-quarter, on CASA as well. We have put our strategy together, thoughts together, and we'll build CASA as well. This quarter, we have launched some products on the both savings and current account side. You will see some growth on the CASA because I know that in our entire good operating quarter, that's the only black mark which we have. So we don't want any black mark in the next quarter. So we will have our CASA growth as well.
But frankly, TD growth, we have to sustain because when you are growing the balance sheet from 9% last year to 25% this year. I mean so far, I'm not making a forward looking statement. And in one quarter, drastic change obviously cannot happen. So we need to have some dependence on term deposits as well because CASA will not give you overnight growth.
But we'll try and see that our CASA does not fall below 30% because that's a psychologically not a good level to be at. My challenge here is mathematically, even if we grow CASA faster than TD, it will continue to fall below 30% till CASA ratio goes above 35%, 38% or above 40% mathematically. So we have to solve that math also, so we'll see how to do.
And like you said, we'll monitor the LCR [indiscernible] Beside the black mark that's in the graph, new mark I will say. So secondly, on the PSLC, do we see that coming back in fourth quarter or is that state is a complete washout of PSLC?
Let me put it this way, I'm not factoring that income in my projections, okay? If something comes that bonus, but my theory is like this, I don't know. This is a kind of a conjecture you can say. That this year, what has happened is credit got picked up to 16%, 17% in the ecosystem. And NBC was previously as NBC. That's why this year, in the whole system, there was not much of a stress on PSLC. And hence, there is no premium on PSLC income, okay? Because everybody would have probably achieved their PSLC targets.
Next year, what will happen, the reverse may happen that you will see it on a higher NBC this year and next year growth may actually taper up a little bit. And even if growth happens, it will happen, not necessarily in PSL-oriented businesses, right?
Like if your wholesale start picking up or some parts of SMEs, picks up et cetera, they might not contribute straight to the PSL business. So given that perspective, it's not all lost cause. All this portfolio will remain until next year. So we'll be able to get, hopefully, some PSLC income back next year. But this year, last quarter, how many people will be short and how much because if they had to buy, they would have bought it by now. Why should someone wait for the last quarter? I'm not so sure. But we are monitoring it daily, especially in the month-end, quarter end we'll monitor it more daily and because we did it last quarter, there are only 3 days window where we got 0.9% on PSLC, and we picked it up and we got that INR 3.6 crores. Just 3 days window, we got and we used it like an opportunity.
So we will watch that. And if we get that opportunity, we'll get it. I mean, whatever we can because it will otherwise zeroize at the end of the year. So we'll do whatever, but I'm not so hopeful.
And sir, lastly, on the recovery side, like we've seen -- I think on the other income portion, the other -- of other income as [indiscernible] growth. So can we expect similar kind of recoveries next year in that [indiscernible]?
I can only talk next quarter. Recovery is something for next year, very difficult to predict. But our machinery is on and our team is fully geared up for a good fourth quarter. Okay. Next year, we can discuss. Then maybe next, next call.
Next question from the line of Sonal Minhas from [ Prescient Capital Management ].
I wanted to understand the corporate loan book, sir? And how does this work specifically in terms of you leading a...
Sorry, there is some [indiscernible]
So I just wanted to understand the corporate loan book. And in the corporate loan book, are you the lead in the lead banker or this is part of a consortium? That is how we try and build basically corporate loan book.
So generally, we don't do consortium lending as much because there is no point participating in the consortium when you don't have [indiscernible] a say.
If you've seen almost 35% to 40% of our portfolio is NBFC in the corporate book if you look at it and rest is mostly distributed lending, okay? But it's mostly one-on-one kind of lending. We don't do multiple banking, but not consortium.
I understand that. And then at the corporate level, I'm just trying to understand is there a distinct reason the corporate or a new corporate would come to CSB just because of the geographic region because of the insurance rate or [indiscernible] you -- in a particular geography, you still, let's say, maybe giving a discount over a larger bank in the geography. Just want to understand the dynamics of this business, when you take up early client. Is it price? Is it your relationship just trying to get to that?
So you know corporate banking is mostly of a relationship business. Okay. So on the financial market side, on the NBFC side, we have been operating with -- and people know that we understand that part of the business, et cetera. That's why obviously, we have our ecosystem and we have some amount of expertise on that business, so which we are [indiscernible] on.
Coming to other parts. What is happening is that PP when they join us, and we are expanding our coverage group, et cetera. Primarily, it happens based on the relationships it will have and the products and services in the geography. Of course, we are a little more stronger in certain parts historically. But we are now expanding significantly in the Western North. We have got very good leadership in Western North. And as we're talking, we are also expanding in -- we are building our leadership in the Upper South part, which is AP and Karnataka.
So while our strength was always there in Tamil Nadu and Kerala, but now we are getting stronger in AP and Karnataka and also Maharashtra and North. And we have built up leadership in each of these locations.
We have clear vertical segments where we enter our Board has guided -- our credit committee has guided in terms of which kind of segments, where we can get the right kind of risk adjusted returns and we are focusing on those segments.
And also it's a relationship business and the coverage business. So all of this put together, ultimately, with all of this, we have not a very large book.
So to that extent, this strategy works for us right now.
In the long run, we have to build up our strategy based on solution products, transaction banking and other supply chain vendor finance, et cetera, between SME and wholesale that we are working better.
Sir, my second question is maybe beyond the results. I just wanted to get a sense of the promoter growth basically and then kind of bid for IDBI. I'm sure this is not a relevant question, but can I ask like this question or this is beyond the results discussion call .
We are a democratic country, you can ask any questions but I cannot answer because I don't know. That's the truth. I mean what Fairfax is doing, and what is their plan. They will -- I mean, I have been told to organically build this bank, and I'm clearly focused on that.
The next question is from the line of [indiscernible] from [indiscernible] Capital.
[indiscernible] understand on the OpEx side, you said that you will be investing in technology and people over the next 1 or 2 years. So any number to put out there like how much OpEx and CapEx costs that you would be -- you have in your mind?
So let's break up OpEx into 3 parts, okay? One is technology -- OpEx. One is technology; one is distribution; one is people, okay? These are primary at are relatively small amounts. So when it comes to technology, technology is again divided into 2 parts CapEx and OpEx, okay?
Now our CIO, Rajesh Choudhary, who is a great buy. So I have told him he can run as fast as possible, whatever he can run, we will fund it, okay? And I'll ensure that our business teams are tasked to get those revenues to the bank, okay?
Now up to him, how much he can do. I have given him a whole laundry list of what needs to be done, okay? Starting from core banking to LS, already were implementing 3 -- 4, 5 products already have implemented, some more to go. Now on the LMS, we have finalized on corporate LOS. We are doing it on corporate net banking. We're doing it on mobile banking and net banking , we are revamping were it. Totally itself is a huge task. I mean I don't want to open it up into that detailed discussion, but let me put it this say. I have told that this is one investment. I will not -- because the faster I get it, the faster my payback period will be because in parallel with that, I'm making other investments in terms of distribution, right? Because of technology, I'm expanding distribution, I'm not able to leverage that. That's not very prudent, right? So to that extent, technology is as much as he can do on manpower, et cetera. We have got a productivity chart given to my retail head, to my SME head, to my wholesale head.
And if they -- I said that we'll not stop anything as long as you manage this productivity, you please hire. But if you don't manage the productivity, you cannot hire, okay?
And when it comes to distribution, I've said that we'll have around 100 branches per year. And as our technology cost starts tapering down, we will go beyond 100 because I fundamentally believe branch is also a way to build distribution till you have at least 2,000 branches in this country.
So to that extent, we will start expanding the boat, but I cannot take both the distribution costs and the technology costs together. Technology costs will start tapering in the next 3, 4 years, and then we will pick up the distribution much larger than 100 per year. So that's broadly what it is.
How much, I don't know. I mean I can't give that number depending on the stamina of our leadership team. But broadly, back of the envelope, I think we should be -- I mean, I don't mind in investing into almost 70%, 80% of our yearly profit also into this 3 OpEx items, distribution people and technology.
Okay. So, I mean from cost-to-income perspective, if you will see...
Sorry, I want to qualify this. When I said this, I'm not saying for the year, I'm saying on a project basis. For example, next 3 to 4 years kind of an investment I'm talking about.
Okay. So from cost-to-income in perspective we will see -- it should remain about 60% level?
Yes. Yes, that I always said that we'll not go below 55%. We'll try and not go above 60% we'll be closer towards 60%.
But by FY '30, we will be between 40% to 45%.
And another thing was, how crucial will be building up the retail liability, assume that it doesn't go through as per your plan, it could [indiscernible] your entire strategy of building up retail franchises, is that so? . Because I think currently, everyone is facing challenges in building of retail deposits. So that is one important crucial part in that entire retail employee game.
If we can't build that, we don't have a story either to tell or to build it. So I will start from a -- believe that we can do it. We have the ability to do it. And most of my management team has done it time and again past [indiscernible] in various large organizations. So there is no way I will even think that we cannot do it, okay?
Question is -- and we will see. I mean, for example, in most of the investor calls, what I have said in the past, we have delivered, right? I mean, look at this today's call, we have almost delivered everything we have said.
So I don't even want to get into a discussion. If it does not happen, that question doesn't arise in our mind. But yes, it's a tough journey ahead, and we know how to do the building block. That's why we are not taking a shortcut to success. We are saying we'll build a franchise. We'll go step by step. We'll build the distribution. We'll build the leadership team. We'll build the technology, we'll build those products. That's why I'm not committing anything, which is unachievable. I have done it 3 times in my past experience. And I know step-by-step how to do things. And hence, we are not committing anything which we cannot do.
Okay. Sir, just last thing on the margins and the credit cost any outlook for the next quarter?
Margins I've said before, again, I'm repeating because you will see most of the calls, my numbers don't change much. I'll be happy with the NIM of around 5%, okay? And in terms of credit cost, we can't have a negative credit cost but we will -- but we will -- on a 3-year basis, we'll be below 40 basis points. Next year, obviously, we'll not reach 40 basis points. It will be lower than that, much lower than that, but it will not be negative also.
The next question is from the line of [Dharma Venkatesan ], an Individual Investor.
My question is more on the MSME book. So have you explored any [indiscernible] in the opportunities with the FinTech or all of the [indiscernible] large from the bank? So can you give some color on that?
Yes. What is happening is we were doing some business on the FinTech side, but because of the new digital lending advisory or guidance, which has come from RBI, we have gone back to the drawing board again, and we are seeing how this will work out. So we are talking to a few partners, and we are working on it. On the other co-lending, which is a little larger, there is a technology development that is required. We are also working on that. So yes, that is very much in the thought process that is a large part of our strategy. But we -- I think that we'll take a little time to create the framework for that strategy. But if you ask me this question 2 years from now, I can show you how much business we have done in this.
Okay, sir. And how many branches you have opened in this quarter, from starting the quarter?
In this quarter, around 40 branches, I think.
Okay. And my final question is it's more of a general question. Sir, suppose if we are building a [indiscernible] implementing in technologies and other aspects. We are building a cost of franchises. Do we need any management bandwidth in Tier 2, Tier 3 levels? Or what are the other things you need on your management bandwidth to achieve the level of growth that we are aiming i.e. maybe 5 years or 10 years from now?
Sir, our issue is not the Tier 2, Tier 3. We are very well placed there. And that's why you see that we are the net seller in PSLC all the time. Our primarily -- why we have to work on is how do we build a franchise for the metro and urban markets. okay? And that's why we need multiple products, multiple premium businesses. I can say premium, but at least made of the pyramid to going towards top of the pyramid. So our challenge is very different to -- from the other banks who are trying to grow from metro and urban to deeper geography. So we are coming from deeper geography to metro and urban.
So basically, it's a full franchise which we have to build because in these metro markets and urban markets, if you have to be present profitably, you have to have a full service franchise, and that's what we are working on.
So our challenge is exactly the opposite.
My question didn't get [indiscernible]. My question was on a manageable level. Like on our management bandwidth of Tier 2, Tier 3 employees, like do we need to -- how much bandwidth we need for the growth that we are anticipating 5 years from now? Are we well capitalized on the management side it is what I...
So let me try and answer that. So you know what, because we understand the golden business very well, in the Tier 2, Tier 3 markets are very good on gold loan, agri, MFI, these kind of businesses. And because we are very good in some of these businesses. Rest of the businesses we do understand liability, assets, total assets as they grow deeper as we create credit structures.
And also, digital is becoming a major part even in bigger geography. So not necessarily you have to have so many people in those locations to run the businesses. okay? Except for gold loan, gold loan is a very physical business and which you understand. So most of these branches in the Tier 2, Tier 3, Tier 4 kind of towns, gold loan itself gives us a very quick turnaround in terms of profits.
But they don't make big money, right? The smaller branches don't make big money. So to make big money, you have to have larger presence and higher end of the pyramid in metro and urban markets because all large banks have top 20 customers contributing to more than 100% of the profit and 80% of the revenue. And that is one pie, which we have to build-- we are not present in those -- in that segment as yet. We are building that and that will take 3, 4 years to build.
Management bandwidth, we have enough present in the bigger geography, that's not a problem.
Okay, sir. And just one more final thing. What is the top 10 or top 20 deposits and advances concentration? Top 20 or top 50?
Top 50 deposit caution, I don't know whether we give that number or not. Mr. Divakara, Do we give that number, then can I share?
[indiscernible] later on we can -- clearly we can furnish that information.
Maybe on one hand.
12% , 12%.
On the advance side or on the deposit side sir that is?
Deposit side.
Top 20 depositors around 12%. And we are trying to bring that down further. I forgot that number, I have seen that. So we're going to bring that down -- that number over a period of time.
Similar number on the advances ?
Sorry?
On the advances side -- similar number on advance?
Advance is nothing. 47%, 45% of our business in gold loan, which are all less than 2 lakhs, okay? So it is not very relevant.
So we don't have any major exposure to one particular person or a company?
We may have 2 or 3, but they are less than INR 300 crores.
The next question is from the line of [ Anuja Dighe ] from Elara.
I just have one data keeping question. I think we have realigned our loan mix this quarter. So may I get similar kind of numbers for SME corporate and retail for last quarter?
I think it is there in the investor presentation if you look up, but if I remit currently, our gold loan was around 45%, but you can check it in the net. Our gold loan, I think it was 45%, our SME was around 13%, 12% to 13%. And DA was around 5% and rest was on the wholesale side.
Okay.
Around 25%, 27% was on the wholesale, I think.
And second, another small question. If I'm not mistaken, you mentioned that according to RBI recognition, the wholesale deposit base is around 50% of the book. Is it right?
I did not say that. Let me first clarify what I said. wholesale, by definition, by RBI definition if I remind correctly, more than INR 2 crores is called wholesale okay? It can come from any individuals also. I think more than INR 2 crores, anything if an NRI gives up INR 2 crores, some of the [indiscernible] gives INR 2 crores, I think more than INR 2 crores is wholesale. I'm not able to remember exactly, but I think so. Okay So what I'm saying by RBI definition, which is large ticket, any large ticket, which is as per RBI, you have to classify as a wholesale deposit, not necessarily the deposit has come from wholesale, okay?
So that more than INR 2 crores incrementally last quarter, around 50% to 60% of our business came from that. Generally, it's around 30% to 40%. But last quarter, we focused a little bit on around INR 2 crores to INR 5 crores of deposits because we needed to grow the deposit last quarter, okay?
Because it's only incremental for last quarter, not our overall portfolio. Our overall portfolio is pretty much very granular, more granular than most of the banks even now.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, this was the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you, Manish, and Axis Capital for organizing this call and really thankful to all the investors and analysts for being such active and enthusiastic questions. I hope I could respond to most of the answers.
And again, I would like to say that I'm happy that we could almost deliver all the parameters on a consistent basis. And whatever we have committed, we'll work very hard to ensure that we don't disappoint you.
Thank you very much. Have a good evening.
Thank you. On behalf of Axis Capital Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.