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CreditAccess Grameen Ltd
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[Operator Instructions] The conference is now being recorded. Ladies and gentlemen, please take an exit, your conference call will begin shortly. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Q2 FY '23 Earnings Conference Call of CreditAccess Grameen Limited, hosted by ICICI Securities. [Operator Instructions]. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Renish Bhuva from ICICI Securities. Thank you, and over to you.
Thanks, [indiscernible]. Hello, and good evening, everyone. Welcome to the CreditAccess Grameen Q2 FY '23 Earnings Conference Call. From the management team, we have with us today Udaya Kumar Hebbar MD and CEO; Ganesh Narayanan, Deputy CEO and Chief Business Officer; Mr. Balakrishna Kamath, CFO; and Mr. Nilesh Dalvi, VP, Head of Investor Relations. We will start the call with brief opening remarks and then open the call for Q&A. I would like to thank the management team for giving us the opportunity to host the Q2 FY '23 earnings call. I will now hand over the call to Mr. Udaya for opening remarks. Over to you, sir.
Thank you. Thank you, Renish. Good evening to everyone, and thanks for joining this conference call. We welcome you all to discuss our second quarter and first half FY '23 financial performance. We would like to say with great confidence that we are very pleased in the growth mortgage group and profitability, which is service [indiscernible] leadership positions over the coming quarters and years. We have witnessed the last strongest second quarter performance to date with overall improvement across all key parameters, going from borrower addition, disbursement, collection efficiency, asset quality, net interest margin, return ratios and traction in foreign funding. We are among the early adopters of new microfinance guidelines, which helped us to channelize our revenue towards customer [indiscernible] and loan renewals during the second quarter.
At a consolidated level, we added over 2.8 large borrowers during Q2 FY '23. The highest borrower addition in the second quarter. Our borrower base grew by 3% Q-o-Q and 5.5% of Y-o-Y on a period update, sorry, 3% Q-o-Q and 5.5% Y-o-Y period of the year to reach nearly 38 lakh miles. As we're learning our borrower base grew by 8.8% Y-o-Y and 16.7% Y-o-Y on period of basis to reach nearly 30 lakh. At NFL, while there was 20.6% Y-o-D in the thorough day. The period of [indiscernible] actually, we had grown by 8.2%. On a consolidated basis, we added 8.8 lakh new borrowers over the last 12 months with 37% coming from outside of top 3 strips. Our consolidated gross loan portfolio grew by 24% Y-o-Y and 5.9% Q-o-Q to 6,539 crores. On period of basis, the growth stands at 25.3%.
The second quarter disbursement at 475 crores at 12.5% Y-o-Y growth, our highest ever. We appreciate the effort of our MSL stock who are currently managing 2 interprets given that 84% of the book is from CAGL Technical Fund and the remaining 15% require enough of the program and still be able to deliver the growth. The branch addition remained largely muted during the second quarter as we decided to focus on unlocking brand on productivity. In the last 3.5 years, we have opened over 50 branches at a confounded level where witness couldn't scale following to co-related receptions.
With growing meaningly and the industry being at the new phase, we expect to generate significant business from these branches, which will be further visible in various productivity related indicators. We'll reinitiate the branch expansion in the second half as per as line. Our collection efficiency and asset quality now largely normalized, consolidated corresponding during Q2 FY '23 stood at 95%, excluding the areas and 98% into the year. GNPA [indiscernible] reduced from 3.11% in June 22 [indiscernible] in June 22. [indiscernible]. From 90 it moved from 2.33% in June 22 to 1.22 in 22 and net NPA, DPD reduced from 1.15% in June 22 to 0.7% in September 22.
We are best placed to protect our NIM in a rising interest scenario with strong control over cost of borrowings, coupled with one of the lowest lending rates in it. For consolidated recognized rating average cost of borrowing was at 9.2% during Q2 FY '23, only 30 bps higher compared to Q4 FY '22. That means in the last 6 months. [indiscernible] marginal cross-borrowing during Q2 effect rate was 8.8% to 50 bps higher in the last 6 months. Our NIM was in 20% Q3 FY '23 and 11.4 during the joint FY '23, which is 50 bps higher compared to 10.9% in FY '22. As guided earlier, we anticipate our means to improve in the FY '23 during the new loan pricing, low interest, [indiscernible] commission and lower liquidity carrying cost.
On a consolidated basis, M&A grew by 39.9% Y-o-Y to INR 516 crores, while PPOP grew by 52.9% Y-o-Y to INR 34.4 crores, indicating a clear path of strong profitability in growth ahead. The credit cost was INR 15 crores, which also included the impact of the write-off of INR 16 crores. This was partially offset by INR 13.5 crores of banded recovery during the second quarter. Overall, ECL stood at 2.46% at the end of Q2 FY '23 higher than our DMP. We recorded our highest quarterly consolidated PAT of 1.6 crores during Q3 FY '22. Despite it being an evenly modest quarter, resulting an ROI of 4% and ROE of 16.1%.
Overall, looking at [indiscernible] FY'23 financial performance, we are handling about achieving our annual performance guidance for FY '22. Our liability franchise is an important pillar to achieving the desirable scale under the micro financial cast and providing affordable products towards [indiscernible]. We saw several public developments on the liability front during the financial year. In Q1 FY '22, India rating [indiscernible] rating from stable to AA- / Stable and [indiscernible] appealed our rating outlook from year to stable to liquid equity. This was followed by [indiscernible] upgrading our rating outlook to AA+ from AA+ Stable including productivity.
We are witnessing a strong traction in fund on flows eating your strategy of diverting our liability mix by achieving 25 to 20 fastening over the medium tallit. During this financial year, we have received sanctions around SB 195 million from dominant foreign financial institutions and [indiscernible] including [indiscernible] International Plant Compression, syndicated loan by HSBC and United Stated [indiscernible]. Today, we have strong visibility of fine sourcing back by a 38% share in undrawn sanctions and 19% share sanction in pipeline. And we have a strong policy that we will not have any total position and 100% foreign currency hedging coverage so that we are not expressed any hedging risk for currency rate.
We are extremely happy to announce that DFC supported us with 35 million year-to-date loan related in loan for up to 7 years, and it is the first of explained direct lending by them to an Indian [indiscernible]. This year second to giving loan after receiving the 40th loan sanction to $25 million from [indiscernible] 21. The micro finance model fits well under ESG real given global interest are actively looking at the expanding ESG compliant benefit. We're able to put AAG point in our journey, which have seen a lot of traction on making concrete appreciate you the same resin from commenting integrated reporting beginning since FY '21.
In formulating various policies in the environment and social and government framework which are available in the public domain for website. We would also like to inform you that we are in the process of launching our made and public NCD issue in the month of November 22. We have already filed [indiscernible] available on steady upside for [indiscernible]. We are planning to raise up to INR 400 crores in multiple tranches for coming year which will be the first public entity issued to be large by any NBFCs. We have earlier raised INR 210 crores for market-linked or the company rate and have witness to do the response on an and from the offices. We are taking this route to further divest liability portal and establish a strong source of fund through public markets, which can be tapped in the future.
Our IT system has given us lengthy of support to cover a wider and deeper footprint. I'm happy to inform you that we were recognized by next technology of the year, 22 awhile in the financial sales category at [indiscernible]. Tavares restored for adopting effective measures to drive technological advancement, scalable infrastructure and the net media test applications given technology adoption in critical in the quest for finance productivity and gaining the compete. With this, we would like to open the forum for a question of this section. Thank you for your patience.
[Operator Instructions] We have our first question from the line of Shreepal Doshi from Equirus.
For the question we will start with respect to the portfolio yield. So, what are the increases that we have taken over the last 2 quarters in the annual yields.
See, based on the new guidelines that interest can be placed vital based on your structure borrowing cost of capital, cost of operation and cost of risk. So, our yield would have gone up by a futuristic disbursement, one up by almost 1.3%. So which basically makes about 11.3% interest rate along with other income and [indiscernible] together, we aim at about 20% NIM here [indiscernible]. The entire full benefit by up within 2 years' time, but yes, some benefit will start getting here onwards.
Sir, I'm sorry, I didn't get. So you said NIM would inch up to 11%.
12%.
12%. Okay. And the portfolio yield has gone up to 21%, is it?
It is. It's along 19% on now. It will actually -- there's a full benefit of 2 years, it should actually over around 20.3% end of things.
And sir, you highlighted that on the liability side, we are looking at newer revenues. So, what is the kind of mix that we are looking at over the next, say, 2-years? Because I suppose even on the asset side, we have increased our product tenure for our vintage customers. So, on the liability side, what is the kind of changes that we are looking at in terms of mix? If you could answer that?
So, I think I have already answered in the opening remarks or we leave that to enhance our liability profile by at least 25% to 30% from international scope, it will be stable and long term. So which will help us to have [indiscernible] which will further enhance that is one step. Second, we said we also are working towards raising about INR 1,500 crores through public and CD, which will be, again, a long-term funding resources, which will make us more than 50% of our funds eventually maybe medium-term level are our more than previous loans, which will automatically strengthen the liability profile.
And sir, just one last question. On the loan officer side. So I suppose the last quarter, this Q2, we have added 700, 800-odd loan officers. So what is the number of borrowers and AUM per loan officer that we feel that we would be comfortable with in terms of operational metric.
In our case, we always look at the relationship that's key parameter. Therefore, we don't want to load too much [indiscernible] because the loan officer is higher. Number of customers are higher [indiscernible]. The relationship building will not be possible. Therefore, we are comfortable that about 400 to 450 customers [indiscernible].
And in terms of AUM size?
Currently, we are at 1.6 crores per [indiscernible] and we are comfortable with that. It may per crore between 10% or so minus.
Sir, in the presentation, I saw there is some revised ECL policy. So what is it? If you could just throw some color?
Annually, we revised our ECL policy to review what is foregone last year and what more we have to change. So this year renewed these policy to give a color of the new, what we call risks, which is appearing in a different basis first in last 2-years or last 3-4 years. So accordingly, what we designed the policy is to have a different PD LGD based on the geographic risk. It's not just a common PD LGD across the board. So therefore, we'll say the states are designed into low risk, medium risk and highest category. And the PD LGD also revised based on such risks. So instead of a common PD LGD for the entire book, it's more on risk base than customer intake base. So for that probably, we can arrive at better ECL provision. So also give you a color of lateral what we call-- macro level, GDP impact, if anything, is there. Then again, we can look at that after additional parameter. So we added a couple of parameters to refine better than what we had earlier, which increased the ECL by about 15 bps. So [indiscernible] actually increased on a comparative basis, or CL has gone up by about 15 bps with a revised process.
Thank you. [Operator Instructions]. We have our next question from the line of Pooja Ahuja from Monarch Networth Capital. Please go ahead. There is some echo coming from your line. Can you use the handset, please?
So firstly, I wanted to understand on the cost of fund front, while we've seen improvement this quarter, would you largely attribute to the liquidity run down? And what are our incremental cost of funds?
Now, incremental cost of funds are explained, our marginal cost increased by 50 bps in the last 6 months and average cost of borrowing increased with 30 bps in this last 6 months.
But Q-o-Q we've seen some improvement. So will you attribute that to -- because you've seen some liquidity run down.
No, no. The correlation with the liquidity rundown for this because we also raised upmost during the quarter. And it's more of a liability management. I mean, borrowings at the right rate pacing and maturity. So I think that's what paid out actually. Liquidity management vendor will not have an impact on the cost of borrowing.
And secondly, on the retail book, that's not seen a traction in the past 2 quarters. So I just wanted to understand the value are running other products on pilot basis. When do we see those segments sort of meaningfully contributing to that?
We already said earlier also, this year, we will do more of pilots. We won't see numbers actually because one could do that, whatever, what we are picking up will be. It should be a great model. So number can actually will be in the next financial year. So we are doing more of a pilot this year.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Abhishek Murarka from HSBC. Please go ahead.
Good evening and congratulations for the quarter. Few questions. One on branches. You said in the second half, you would sort of reinitiate branch addition. What kind of run rate are you looking at?
Into normal run rate, what you want to do about 10% to 12% of our base. That is what we normally do and earlier normally we used to do in the first half. But when we thought that it would be better to use the current -- I mean focus low and mature the branches which we have opened in the early last period of years. There is no number of branches is not as mature. They have a lot of scope to -- a lot of headroom gearing both branches. So we want to focus a couple of ones to improve or grow them and reinitiate during the year. So the 10% to 20% of the base increment, and we will be doing the same level this year also.
By the end of the year, you would be 10% to 12% higher in branch count versus beginning of the year? That's what we're trying. And sir, just on these branches, so if I calculate, even now, you would be at around 350 customers per loan officer. And your comfort level is INR 400 to 450. So you have at least 15% to 30% extra capacity in the system already. So would it not be useful to push out this branch in people addition and sweat the existing branches and people at least for a while before you start adding.
That is looking at the current and we need to look for the future also. We need to create infrastructure for next year also [indiscernible]. So if you keep doing then when you start, then actually, you don't have headroom afterwards. So we need to keep creating the branches for the future growth. The only way it create branches this year and get the potential business next 2-3 years. So I think that's why we will not compromise from expansion of the branches.
So, for instance then you would probably remain in the 350 to 400 space because every time you hit that by that time, your fresh capacity will come up.
So there will be -- when we say average, it will not be average across the branches. But where we in a mature branch, well how about INR 45,500 and non-metals have lesser that kind of combination will be there always.
The other question is on NIM expansion. Actually, I think, if I remember correctly, you had guided for a 70 bps NIM expansion over 2-years or something of that order. And we've seen a sudden expansion already. And there's more pricing benefit yet to come. I think almost 60% of your book will move to the new pricing methodology. So, do you think from here, how much further NIM expansion do you envisage? Or do you think your cost of funds will finally start catching up and you would limit your -- I mean, the NIMs would get limited to a certain level?
No. We guided the NIM -- sorry, margin expansion by 1.3%, and we said the 50 to 70 bps may come in the first financial year. The balance is the next financial year. That's what we said. And then there is about 90 bps. This is a combination of 2 things. One is the NIM expansion because of interest rates. Second, was because of the lesser recognition. Third is the reduction of negative carry because of higher liquidity meta. So that is why you would little higher NIM expansion this quarter. The minute, probably, if you remain at this ever or maybe 20, 30 bps may change, I mean go up in this financial and some catch-up of [indiscernible] borrowing also may impact. So overall [indiscernible] will remain about 12, 12.5% or actually for the financial year.
And sir, finally, any kind of cap on pricing either regulatory or competitively, do you envisage that? Or do you think you have the flexibility on pricing if you need to increase it more, you can do it.
If there is a cost over increases or there is no difficulty to pass on the pricing because we are still among the lowest pace to the customers and then complicity in terms of pricing. And the borrowing cost also probably competitive compared to the industry of somebody. So that's why I think we still have ability to pass all in place further in case in the cost of borrowing.
Thank you. We have a next question from the line of Punit Bahlani from Nomura. Please go ahead.
So just 2 questions from my side. First, on the ECB mix, you highlighted that the traction is strong. And what costs are you able to like including tax cost, are you able to raise [indiscernible] like over the near term, so 2-3 years, where do you see the ECB heading?
[indiscernible] understand. If I ever correctly, you were asking about the ECB, including hedging costs, what will be our land and cost, right? It may be between 9.5% to 10.5%. It may be around 1% more than your government cost of borrowing, but it will be normally minimum 3-years funding wider. The repayment will start only after 3-years. So therefore, because of the patient form of lending long term and stable, even at 1% higher, if it still makes sense for us. And this will be fully at the cost.
And where do you see the ECB mix setting, over the near term?
So our best could go to 3-years' time overall international funding will be between 25% to 30% of our overall liability side. So it's good to be--could be NCD private base point. So everything is possible, but looking from the diversification point of view and then the stability point of view. So that mix of ECB and the [indiscernible].
On the margin front, like, of course, you've seen and you have attributed the reason at least from an understanding point like what proportion of the focus post FY '22? Any color on that is to analyze [indiscernible].
That will transfer FY '22, we're talking about the disbursement made in these last 2 quarters.
Yes. But what proportion of the AUM is generated from that like as such, AUM is a part of the total because the 90 bps like increased sequential increase on this. Wondering whether it's because of hydro potion book expiring this quarter or something like that?
No, no. Not because of the 2. I told the 3 components. I mean, exact components, I will not be able to give right now here. It is increased pricing, reduced the delinquency-related derecognition on when you compare to previous earlier quarters. And the third one is to reduce the liquidity. For example, you used to carry almost 10% more than terms of liquidity. Now we are at around 1% of liquidity. So is a combination of increase in the NIM, maybe if you need more details, maybe we can have it. We're not on [indiscernible] sometime later whenever you are. We will be able to give some more color on it.
[Operator Instructions] We have our next question from the line of Nidhesh Jain from Investec. Please go ahead.
Sir, what is the customer gross customer addition this quarter? And what is -- any guidance on that number for the remaining part of the year?
So, we already said [indiscernible] it's currently our y-o-y customer acquisition is about a group for the 8%. And actually, it's free rate's almost 15% but net actually, we presume that we'll customer go to be between 10% to 12% and the portfolio growth to be over 24%, 25%.
Net [indiscernible] customer growth after.
Net customer growth about 10% to 12% than the portfolio that as a net rate of about INR 2,420 is what we guided actually and then probably we'll be able to meet that without any difficulty.
And customers that we are acquiring incrementally, how much are new to micro financial in that?
It's about 30%, 35% in the first half year, we are approximately in the first year first half to get there. And it varies between the North and South, actually, South it may be lesser to at Northern but is higher to credit. So it's about 30-35%.
And sir, lastly, if I look at the competitive landscape, we are the lowest cost provider we are offering one at the lowest rate to the customer. But the fact also is that green customers are not very price sensitive. So in this situation, how do we plan to, let's say, gain market share, consolidated condition? Because I see that a lot of players have taken significant price item, they are operating at 55%, while we are operating at around some. So that is a significant gap in the pricing that the players are operating at. So how we plan to gain from this?
So our plan is to grow consistently market take on its own. So a customer working in reals trying to acquire more new to predict and then hold them for a longer period is our nature of business, which we are doing [indiscernible]. So in this process, while customers are not very sensitive, but once they borrow from us, they will start becoming part because when they got money from at a certain place, obviously, they will expect the change from whoever the next lenders, if not, otherwise, they will stay with us. So it will only help us as a competitive edge by paging lower and employ borrowing also at a lower price. So I think from a competitive point of view, this would help us to gain market [indiscernible] and so, it helps us to retain our claims, which is our main focus. That's why we have our retention rate is almost 85%. One of the key contributors is low pricing to our customers. So obviously, that tally reflects our nature of responsible lending institution.
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of M.B. Mahesh from Kotak.
Just 2 questions. The first one is, in your market today, we seem to be seeing in players in and of players offering [indiscernible] multiple number of products, which includes personal loans, individual loan business loans. How [indiscernible] means right now to kind of capture the bulk of the data, which is sitting there. One, and just more importantly, if I give an MFI loan, does the rule apply as per the current rules, but if I give a personal loan at the current guidelines are? How does it work on the ground?
That's an unsecured lower do any low-income household family with less than 3 lakh income and meeting the IR within 50%. The farm micro learning as per regulation, clearly. It can be personal. It can be convinced; it can be anything. But that promise is a micro finance group. I couldn't understand your first question.
Is it easy? [indiscernible] has to capture all the data when we go annually?
It's important element alone. If I need to interact with your customers on the family and then capture all what they do in terms of their business, their income, their expenditure and the number of people, what kind of business they are into. So, we need to train them. Then if you remember, we said April, May, we did not dispose too much opening. We spent a lot of time in tailing our employees how can be captured on our system, how it can be -- I mean, popularized how trained. So we use that time. Of course, we don't have a drop of data, but they are to go with a proxy and then talking more with the customers. So is it possible to pose capture and maintain and report the group.
And in that context, do you think loans will go away from billing goes to other networks in the family as well?
It can be, it's a permit level borrowing and family level repayment.
[indiscernible]
No, no. It has to be because woman alone will not be running our business. It's a Tier 4. Woman is a Tier 4. [indiscernible] of family.
Sorry, on the second final question from my side is, any other pockets is it still pending from aside where you think the stress on the ground is not back to break over us.
We don't have any specific pockets actually in our business, where they are quite okay. So, we not too good, this keeps not doing well, sometimes it's a normal business when you operate on 300-odd decades. So other I don't see any difficulty.
We have our next question from the line of Viral Chotai from Blue North.
I had 2, 3, questions. One on an ESG loan, so the question was that if you say that moratorium will be there for 3-years. Is there any other conditions also like pretty maintained or any of the specific conditions, which you will have to attend to obtain this loan.
Its normally bilateral but we need to really negotiate the risk lender. There's nothing unique actually. You need to have a declare from lenders. So it's like any other bank. It's a unique bilateral negotiation and on the ground.
Next question in terms of NCDs, you said it will be raised in the next month, maybe in November. What is sensitively cost of borrowing will be there because now we got a rating improvement as well. What will be the blended cost for that?
We have not yet decided. We had to do a road show and then meet potential investors, and then we'll decide the tenures and the side and the price under the appropriate time before launching the entry.
In terms of definition in our presentation at the last definition are given, rating portfolio yield definition change interest on loan minus processing fees plus interest from securitization. And in the long later, we take average on the UL. So, when we are taking into income from securitization, shouldn't we take a one book plus or book in a denominator to arrive at the [indiscernible] on a portfolio?
I think we follow a standard practice. And I think there won't be any difference between contact therefore, portfolio yield and then the related calculations are equal to a purchase of any other Viral Chotai from other [indiscernible].
And sir, last question. I understood most of the competition or a player, we have done extremely well in doing COVID and COVID [indiscernible] lowest. So if we, for example, if we take [indiscernible] COVID and we take total credit so far, whatever write-offs, including provisions, what will be just the-the exact number. What was the total COVID losses we would have incurred?
About 4.5% annually for both years. 2021 and leverage of 4.5%, both years.
Thank you. [Operator Instructions]. We have a question from the line of Shreya Shivani from CLSA. Please go ahead.
Sir, particularly, I have 2 questions. First one is on the borrower count, particularly for Madura. So that has been moderating, and I understand it was supposed to be -- it was intended to be this week. So from the coming quarters, are we going to see an improvement in the borrower count over there? Or there is still room for correction or culling out of borrowers from the Madura book? That's my first question. And my second question is on the -- this is more to do with the branch discipline --or the group meeting discipline, sorry. So as far as I remember that coming out of COVID, a lot of MFI players were reporting that the group meeting discipline has sort of not returned. If you can give us some flavor on how it is now, which states are seeing better recovery? And how much of your group meeting discipline has returned and which part, big geographies of the country.
Today in Madura, we explained the 2 things. One is, because they're handling new types of systems, there will be slight latency in their efficiency in customer acquisition. But the reduction of customers due to write-off of large number of customers during the last 3-years. If you look at the pre rate of customers have also grown by 8.8% in y-o-y in September. And portfolio also grew by some 24%, 38%. So it is not that Madura is not acquiring at is little lesser compared to retain. Otherwise, because of the write-off numbers are little higher there, therefore, it looks like little 20% reducing the customer, which we anticipated. So it's still the acquired a good number of customers. And it's improving as the right now, you see 84% of the book is already created government platform, only 16% needs to be managed now as it comes down, the ability to acquire more customers into.
So we would see good improvement in the next 2 quarters in Madura book also. That's the first question. Second one is about [indiscernible] coming back. I think digital was quite good even during COVID allowed the [indiscernible] to happen in the system. But is not back. We don't have too much of undisciplined group. So, there's still little attendance reduction when compared to [indiscernible] probably during -- it was about 28%, 30% of agreement. This is about 77% agreement and I think is still quite good actually. We don't have any challenge bought-back like discipline or regiment issues or collection is just large extent we are back to normal.
Thank you. [Operator Instructions] We have a next question from the line of Piran Engineer from CLSA. Please go ahead.
I just had a clarification on one of the questions from a previous participant on eligibility of loans. So sir, you said that if it's below INR 3 lakh [indiscernible] less than 50%, but this is only if it is under JLG model, right?
Actually, l responded to the regulatory question. What is microfinance. I thought it regulatory point of if it. It's not ours. Our income generation loans or the group loan funding. For regulation, there is no good requirements. They're not mentioned that.
So even if I want a personal loan, they have to verify whether I am of this lower income category and what my FIR is?
If you want to categorize that under micro finance, then you have to evaluate the family income. It should not be more than 3-years. And we also, put I think, more than 3 lakhs. We have to evaluate all the borrowings of the family and the outflow should not be more than 50% of the total borrowings. So total use. So that not -- if you maintain that, it is micro finance.
And that is for to maintain the 75% share of microfinance to be classified as MFI. That's the only reason.
[indiscernible] for the bank, for example, not necessarily that totally suppliable, right?
Thank you. We have our next question from the line of Shreepal Doshi from Equirus. Please go ahead.
So the question was with respect to the customer overlap, how many currently, like for 2Q, what would be the customers which are unique to us? And what would be like credit plus one lender and credit plus 2 lenders.
There is not yet change in our customer profile. It's about 43% of our customers are unique for gaming and about 39% of the customers have one other lender and balance now either 2 or 3 vendors. [indiscernible] the profile of all these.
And the last question was with respect to what is the internal gap on the total leverage that we will be comfortable at the customer level?
So, we have taken a call that even though regulatory, there is no gap, we said that if a customer is the retail customer is already more than 4-years of microfinance expended. We can go up to INR 2 lakh of leverage, and it's not it's 1.3 total lakh. It's what -- we have 15 lakhs. So that's where we took some average. It should come all the borrowings together, not just all borrowing together. Within gaming, it's lakh is a [indiscernible] for customer more than 6-years to date and last time we said various categories, from 40, 000 to [indiscernible].
Sir, any color if you could give what would be the overlap with players [indiscernible]. I understand there might not be significant overlap in each of the states but if you could give some color in some of the key states like Nataka, Tamil Nadu and Maharashtra maybe.
So I'll not be able to do [indiscernible] overall. Our overlap with Baffin about 14% and then [indiscernible] is at 4%.
Thank you. [Operator Instructions] We have a question from the line of Viral Chotai from Blue North. Please go ahead.
One question. In terms of collection efficiencies, mentioned 98% of IT. And it says it's including Ariens as well. So on a due basis, if you can just tell [indiscernible] reached now pre-COVID level in specific to certain state if they're not doing valued?
We told both actually. We re-estimated 95%, we believe 98%. That think demand was for collection is 95%. So largely around the pre-COVID level because if you exclude the non-paying NPAs, it will be about 98%.
And any specific states which are not performing well where collection accretion is lower than that bridge?
No. Overall, we don't have too much variations.
There are no more questions in the queue. Any closing comments, sir?
Thank you. Thank you, everybody. I mean, during the session time, we actually took the leading time of all of years. So I'm happy Diwali to everybody. And [indiscernible] happy Diwali and [indiscernible]. Thank you very much.
Thank you, sir. On behalf of ICICI Securities, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. The conference is no longer being recorded.