CL Educate Ltd

NSE:CLEDUCATE

Earnings Call Transcript 2024-Q1

[Arjun Wadhwa, executive]

Okay. Let's get started. Very good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to CL Educate Limited's Q1 FY '24 Analyst Call. My name is Arjun Wadhwa. I'm the CFO of CL Educate, and I'll be your host today.

Once again, welcome to our homegrown metaverse, it's called VOSMOS. And this is the sixth call we are hosting through the platform, and I'm sure by now everyone here would maybe familiar with the same. However, if you're joining us for the very first time through VOSMOS, I would recommend spending a little bit of time after this call exploring what the metaverse has to offer, including checking out some of the meta commerce opportunities available in our mall. It's brilliant. Please do spend some time on it later on.

This analyst call, as always, will be recorded, transcribed and made available in the Investor zone on our website within the next 24 to 48 hours. Should you have any questions, please type them in the chat box in the bottom right-hand corner of your screen. We'll address them at the end of our presentation.

Joining me on this call today is Mr. Satya Narayanan, our Chairman and CEO; and Mr. Nikhil Mahajan, Executive Director and Group CEO of our Enterprise business. I'd like to start by inviting Satya to share a brief overview of our businesses and key focus areas for the year ahead, after which Nikhil will run us through the presentation, spending some time on the financials and business updates for this quarter. Following which, we will take on any questions that you send our way. Satya, over to you.

[R. Narayanan, executive]

Okay. Thank you, Arjun. Maybe we could move to the first slide. Okay. Arjun, can you make this full screen? It is size-wide. Or I should do it at my end? Okay.

[Arjun Wadhwa, executive]

Yes, it is full screen for the visitors. Just...

[R. Narayanan, executive]

Okay. Good afternoon, everybody. I hope some of you also found time to attend our AGM in the morning, continuing the conversation. So this slide, as you can see -- and one of the reasons why I'm taking these 3, 4 slides is that there was a feedback that came last -- before the last earnings call that -- please don't assume that everyone has been attending for a long time. So just take a little time to introduce about the company.

So I'll be very brief here. This, in short, talks about Career Launcher, pan India, hoping to go overseas a little bit more rapidly in the newer environment. Omnichannel brand with 170 centers. And the core business of Career Launcher is all about careers, which includes test preparation, admissions starting for Indian as well as global higher education institutions.

And the platform and content that we use to service these students, that gets monetized by 2 of our divisions. One is the GK Publications on the content side and the CL Media on the platform side with the institutions and other brands.

We are a dominant player in MBA, Law and IPM. We are either #1 or #2, depending on which subsegment we are talking about. And as we move into the future, next 2- to 4-year perspective, if you look at it, the focus is on the -- significant part of it is on undergraduate segment, transitioning from school to college either through CUET, Law and IPM for India or through ILS and SAT and admissions, student equipment consulting for global geographies, important geographies such as U.S., Canada, Australia and so on.

We have over 600 titles, which forms a very important backbone to our delivery design. And we have over 140 institutional clients in India. And we are adding now global clients to it, and this will see a lot of growth over the next couple of years.

Let's move forward. On the MBA side, just a little bit of a summary for those of you who are still newer getting into this market segment, test preparation. MBA is a TAM of about 2.5 lakh, and we have about a 30% to 35% market share in this. And we are -- in India, we are #2. Hoping to be #1, working towards being #1. Typically, in our business, if the market is mature, stable, you can assume that about 50% of the TAM becomes the SAM, wherein people are taking some kind of service or the other.

So we have 2 tasks always in front of us when we get into a new segment. One, to make sure that the figure gets to 50% of the applicants get to start doing test prep. For example, in CUET, that's a significant task for us. And the other task is to grow the market itself. For example, when we start with Law, the total number of law takers in India was about 6,000. I'm talking about 15 years ago. It has moved to 70,000, but I think it has to move a lot more even beyond this. CUET, the applicants who are 14 lakhs. The test takers are about 11.6 lakhs. But this has a potential to go from 11 lakh test takers to 4x the size in the next 5 years. That's one of the tasks that we have even as we try and replicate a 30%, 35% of the SAM as our market share in CUET. So that's -- those numbers are possible in our business if we are good at generating student outcomes.

In the Student Mobility, it's a very important emerging segment. The -- there is some action here. You might have followed some work that is done by new brands like Leverage Edu or Admit Card, et cetera. And there are a lot of legacy players who have built a INR 10 crore or INR 15 crore kind of a brand, and some of those consolidations might happen. There are 6 million students, globally speaking, in their non-native geographies doing their undergrad or post-grad or PhD. The corresponding figure for India is 750,000 students either going from India, overseas or coming to India for a study in India initiative. So that's an important new product, new segment for us. We hope to get most of our growth from undergrad, comprising CUET, Law and IPM or from student mobility programs, while MBA will continue to have a little bit of a growth as we move forward.

A quick summary on the Kestone. I'm aware of 5, 6 of you who have mentioned that you're attending for the first time. So Kestone, the business, as usual, has been around event management, customer engagement programs, demand generation. And the list of clients looks quite formidable as far as Indian geography is concerned. And as you will see, when we go into the actual presentation and as I've shared even this morning in the AGM, Kestone has added a product-led, new opportunity as a big growth driver, which includes a virtual events platform and transitioning, helping businesses move from the 2-dimensional e-commerce world to a 3-dimensional meta commerce world.

And that's an early day. There's a lot of land grab that is possible for new and aggressive players. Kestone is working in that direction. And along with that, Kestone also is looking at expanding her footprint in overseas geography. So after Singapore, Indonesia and GCC are 2 focus areas, and they also are taking some baby steps as far as U.S. is concerned.

So that's the quick summary of broad sweep of about the 2 businesses. I have to pause here and hand the mic over to Nikhil to take us through the business numbers and the details. Nikhil, over to you.

[Nikhil Mahajan, executive]

Thank you, Satya. So let me jump into the financial update immediately. So if you look at the brief business summary, financial summary, I think this has been a reasonably good quarter for us. We have seen our revenue jump to the highest level in any quarter we have achieved at INR 92 crores versus INR 71 crores, which we had achieved last year in June '22. Our EBITDA has grown by about 23% from INR 9 crores to INR 11 crores. Last year, in Q1, we had an exceptional income of about INR 11.8 crores. So adjusting for that, our PAT has increased from INR 4.6 crores to INR 5.5 crores, which is about a 20%, 21% increase, and our EPS increases commensurate to that. So overall, the quarter has shown a pretty robust revenue, EBITDA and profitability PAT growth across almost all business lines, so both EdTech as well as MarTech.

A brief, quick snapshot on a couple of balance sheet items. During the quarter, we have seen our free cash flow increase by about INR 9 crores versus INR 6.2 crores in the same quarter last year. Our ROCE has shown a marginal 3% improvement from 7.3% to 7.6%. We know it is still below what it should be, and we are working towards maximizing the return on the capital employed in business. This last year after the monetized sale of assets has enabled us to set from an illiquid asset to a liquid asset in form of cash, which is gradually getting deployed into business for enhanced returns during the coming period. Just one clarification. The ROCE figures are on the trailing 12-month period and have been suitably adjusted for any exceptional items.

On to the cash position, I think we are currently sitting on around a gross cash of INR 116 crores. Our borrowings are pretty negligible at INR 8 crores, which basically are there to just keep a long-term banking relationship with our existing bankers. With our net cash position at around INR 108 crores, we have seen a net cash accretion as of June '23 over June '22 by about INR 22 crores after accounting for a buyback, which was done last year, which took about INR 12 crores. As shared, we are a net debt 0 company. We don't have any net debt. And going forward, we don't see any accretion of debt on our balance sheet for a reasonable period of time.

Let me jump to the segmental analysis. The EdTech business, we have seen roughly a 33% increase in revenue from INR 45 crores to about INR 60 crores during the quarter. EBITDA has increased by about 15% from INR 10.4 crores. So while the revenue increase is significant, the EBITDA increase is not that dramatic because we have made substantial investments in brand, marketing and people. And these investments with reflect in EBITDA benefits over the next few quarters and should result in higher profitability going forward.

On the MarTech side, we are seeing a revenue increase of about 23% and an EBITDA increase of about 54%. So the improving deployment of technology, product base and the higher margin revenue mix in the market business is resulting in a disproportionate increase in the EBITDA as compared to the revenue. And I think this permitting will continue over the coming quarters as we move forward.

Now a brief deep dive into the EdTech business. The brief summary of that -- this has been a pretty solid quarter with roughly over 50% increase in volumes. The billing has increased by 42%. Our both physical and digital businesses have shown healthy billing growth. Usually, quarter 1 is a billing-heavy quarter because after the exams, the students tend to enroll for the newer courses.

In the UG segment, which includes loss, UET, IPM, engineering, medical, tuition, our enrollment increased by about 77% as compared to last year, while our billing increased by about 49%. The Student Mobility business has also shown a promising growth in the first quarter. And we expect that this positive momentum, both in terms of enrollment and billing, will continue to sustain in the coming quarters.

On the other parts of the EdTech business, which includes the platform monetization, the billing has grown by about 22% during the quarter, while the publishing revenues have grown by 18%. Usually, for the platform monetization, this is a slow quarter as most of the existing institutions are currently busy closing the current admission season's last-mile admissions, and they start looking at the next season only towards mid of July. And I think we'll have many new things to report as we get into quarter 2 and quarter 3 during the course of this year.

As usual, if you look at the bottom part of the slide, one of the reasons for a solid increase in volumes is also our excellent results, not just in law, but also in MBA as well as in CUET. The number of 100 percentilers in CUET '23 has increased more than 3x as compared to last year. We have over 100-plus students who got 100 percentiles. We had the #1 rank holder in CLAT and AILET in '23. The top rankers and the top 10 students in both CLAT and AILET, as usual, have been sales students. And similarly, a huge number of IIM calls in the CAT '22. And this has resulted in an extremely positive word of mouth, and that will continue to give a positive rub off on momentum during the rest of the year.

Now a brief business update on the MarTech business. As shared earlier, our top line grew by about 23%, and EBITDA has grown by 54%. Events and experiential marketing have been key growth drivers. And we have added a couple of extremely marquee clients like ITC and Hindware. The business from our repeat clients is steady and growing at a fast clip. We are focusing on increasing our B2B CP digital marketing sales outcomes. And as the year progresses, I think we will see more positive news on those business lines.

In the first quarter, our overseas business revenues have grown by 50%. We just commenced operations in Indonesia in the first quarter, and that will start contributing to revenues beginning quarter 2. And we hope by the end of the year, we would see a reasonably positive traction in that market.

Arjun, can we move forward? As shared in the morning in the AGM and also -- the Board had approved share buyback contribution to what one which we had done last year. So the buyback will start from August 21. We are looking at a maximum share buyback of about INR 15 crores at a maximum price of INR 94 per share as compared to the average actual last year's buyback price of INR 62.5. Also, this is a share buyback which is being done to the market operation growth, in which the promoters are not going to participate. And we are estimating that from the non-promoter holding, about 6% of that holding is likely to be bought back through this buyback. So I think it -- we'll have about 90 days to complete this process. So hopefully, when we meet again in about quarter's time, we would be -- we would have completed this entire process. And as I shared, the buyback will actually kick off in the market on 21st of August.

That brings me to the end of the presentation. We'll be happy to take any queries and questions. Feel free to kindly tap, and we'll take one by one.

[Arjun Wadhwa, executive]

Thanks, Nikhil. Since I have you, let me throw the first question that's come from Manan, straight to you. He says, as mentioned in the AGM, we have started scouting for strategic/financial investors for Kestone. What is the estimated time line for fruition of the same?

[Nikhil Mahajan, executive]

While we are hopeful that something would materialize in about 3 to 4 quarters, but as you know, it's pretty difficult to put a very strict time line. But we are extremely positive that in the next 3 to 4 quarters, we will have some good news on that front.

[Arjun Wadhwa, executive]

Thanks, Nikhil. There's also a follow-up question from Manan on CUET. Satya, maybe I can bring you in for that. Again, with reference to the AGM, Manan mentions that we had shared that we had about 13,500 CUET enrollments this year. He is asking how we expect the enrollments to grow over the coming 3 to 5 years.

[R. Narayanan, executive]

Thank you, Arjun. Arjun, should we now stop sharing the PPT?

[Arjun Wadhwa, executive]

Yes, we can do that.

[R. Narayanan, executive]

Okay. So Manan -- the question was from Manan, right?

[Arjun Wadhwa, executive]

Yes.

[R. Narayanan, executive]

Okay. So Manan, I think the endeavor would be to get to a very meaningful and strong market shares in various formats in which the students are going to seek help from a player like us. For instance, when I say that, I'm talking about the classroom program, the pure online program or even the test series as an option for students. There are a large number of students who think that they can study on their own. So can we get them in for either the study material or the test series or the DIY learning programs and so on? So as you are aware, we have got the premium, the pouch and the sachet, all 3 levels.

So our effort must be -- our effort in a steady state must be to get to the market share, very similar to what we have in IPM or Law, okay? But how will it translate into what exact numbers, I think it would be a little premature for me to say we need to make sure that there is the offer of CUET in every CL center. That's number one. And that also slightly or significantly impinges or hinges upon whether the universities in that particular geography -- for example, if you take our centers in Tamil Nadu or Kerala or Karnataka, it hasn't begun to move because the local leading universities have not yet begun to take the CUET as an exam.

So we need to play along and then have a very differentiated approaches in different geographies. But our focus would be on getting a good market share. And from wherever we are this year, we should try and see, can we grow by 70% or an 80% or something like that year-on-year is what we should look at. And perhaps possible in the first 2, 3 years before it [indiscernible] is down. Let's see. I don't want to get ahead of ourselves, Manan.

[Arjun Wadhwa, executive]

Satya, while I have you, I'll also just take other questions on CUET, and then I'll go back to Nikhil on the Events business and on the virtual events platform. There are some follow-up questions. Vivek is asking if we are facing any challenges in scaling CUET across franchisees.

[R. Narayanan, executive]

Yes, there are a couple of challenges. The first big challenge is the adoption of CUET as an exam by the local leading universities. Unless that happens, the movement to the ground is very difficult to create with a remote understanding of what it is. The moment it moves in the local universities, all the business partners will pick it up or will get returns on the efforts that we are making. As of now, we are pushing every single center to pick it up and say that this investment of effort will pay you off when the data comes through, which is the universities will take CUET as an exam. So that's the biggest challenge.

The second challenge in this, which hopefully CL has been able to confront and pick it up and created a good amount of lead, is the number of subjects that you have in CUET. That is the biggest challenge in CUET. But we have picked up the 16 or 17 core, important subjects across all these streams. And that will take a little bit more effort on the partners to become comfortable and confident to start offering. I think these are the 2 challenges in addition to creating more centers.

[Arjun Wadhwa, executive]

Thanks, Satya. There's a series of questions, Nikhil, your way, and then I'll come back to Satya in a few minutes. Nikhil, there's a question from Rahul about our plans to monetize content on YouTube. He's actually asking, do we plan to do it? So maybe you can share a little bit about what we plan to do.

[Nikhil Mahajan, executive]

Yes. There is a plan. And our CL YouTube has over 110,000 subscribers. And we are going to make a small start beginning this year in terms of starting the process of monetization by advertising and other options. So -- but how it pans out is something we'll have to test out, but this is going to be a new segment for us as well as our partner institutions. So let's wait and see on how it pans out over the next couple of quarters.

[Arjun Wadhwa, executive]

Thanks, Nikhil. Rahul has also asked about what services are we providing ITC and Hindware. And is it mainly off-line? Or is it a virtual event?

[Nikhil Mahajan, executive]

Initial inroads, we have made into new course. So for them, it is kind of some lead generation and some on-ground dealer channel activation and dealer management and channel events and channel activation. So these 2 customers, it's not going to be a big deal. But as of now, both of these are physical. And hopefully, going forward, we'll have the digital bit of it, the virtual bit of it as things progress.

[Arjun Wadhwa, executive]

Thanks, Nikhil. There's also a follow-up question from Vivek. How is the virtual events platform taking shape? And from a -- if you could share a little bit about the go-to-market and its contribution to MarTech revenue in the coming couple of years.

[Nikhil Mahajan, executive]

Okay. So the virtual platform thing is now established. We continuously keep evolving the technology as a part and parcel of that. The adoption by the industry is pretty strong, especially the IT segment. The IT industry has been using it vigorously. We are finding that the customers outside India, especially in the APAC, the adoption and acceptance is far greater than in India.

In India, a lot of customers, at least over the last 4 quarters, have gone back to a larger, physical engagement, face-to-face, soft-touch/high-touch engagement. But the virtual platform's integration with a physical event has now become more or less an integral part, and we have now moved to more like a hybrid situation, where even there's physical, but it has certain components of virtual events built into it.

There are a couple of large-ticket virtual events we continue to do for big IT companies like Dell and Cisco and Google. So I think it is progressing. This year, we hope to do somewhere between 5% to 7% of our overall revenues through the platform. During the COVID period, this has gone as high as 50%. But as the physical world has come back, most of the companies for a change are now using it, but the adoption of the physical events is significant. I think over the next couple of years, we expect that the virtual events platform revenue would be around 10% to 15% of our revenues going forward.

[Arjun Wadhwa, executive]

Nikhil, I'll just stay with you for a couple of more minutes. [ Nithya Shah ] is asking, looking at the segment results. EdTech seems more profitable than MarTech. Why not demerge MarTech for more value creation on the EdTech side? And also if there are any fundraising plans for Kestone.

[Nikhil Mahajan, executive]

Yes, demerging them into 2 independent businesses is an option. However, at the current level, we have evaluated that, taken imports from various market players. And we feel that segregating these 2 businesses into 2 independent-listed business operations might make them significantly subscaled. Even now at around INR 300 crores and INR 20-odd crores, we are seen as a pretty small listed entity in terms of our size and revenue as a market cap. So breaking that into 2 listed entities, we might make them even much smaller. So maybe that's an option. Once at a certain threshold in terms of size, of revenue, et cetera, is cross, that is an option we would consider.

In the meantime, I had shared earlier and I also answered a question, we are looking for a strategic option, fundraising option for our MarTech business. We are just initiating that process. Let's see how things pan out. We'll have some clarity on how the market reacts and how the market and the potential strategics and others look at it, and then we will take it forward as things go by.

[Arjun Wadhwa, executive]

Thanks, Nikhil. Satya, a host of questions have piled up on the EdTech side. And maybe I'll just give you the essence of, what, 7, 8 questions have asked, and you can probably address them as a group together. One, there are specifics that people are asking about CUET, which, guys, we will refrain from getting into numbers beyond the point because that's also leading market intelligence out there because most of our competitors are not listed entities, and we prefer not to give away too much information. But maybe there are some generic questions that we can still address.

There are questions about percentages of students who are opting for long-term courses in CUET versus short-term courses. There are questions on our center growth and our progress towards 500 centers, which was our stated goal a few quarters back. And there's a question about the Student Mobility business. Can we explain what that really means?

[R. Narayanan, executive]

Okay. Thanks, Arjun. So on the CUET, on the composition of students taking the short-term and the long-term programs, I think at this point in time, it just surprises for me to say that over a period of time, the students begin to opt for the longer and the longest duration programs. Initially, normally, the tendency is to finish the board exams and then rush for a crash program of 2.5 months or 3 months or so. But some of these programs that are now beginning to happen immediately after the boards, you don't get too much time or they're happening in December as a season of exams. Then the next -- what comes is the 1 year or 8 months to a year kind of a program.

So CUET is likely to follow a similar path. And we, as a brand, as a marketing organization, we have -- the onus is upon us to impress upon the parents and children to start choosing the longer-term program because, empirically speaking, that's where the better results come out because the students have been with you for a year, 2 years. But that takes time, okay?

So I'll refrain from getting into too much of numbers, ratios. It is different for different programs. But what you can say or what you can assume is that the shortest duration program, which we call as express or crash, they'll have about half the volume, and the 1-year and the 2-year program over a period of 3 years could get to about the rest half of the entire enrollments that we do.

Test series is another thing that normally becomes an integral part of your portfolio, and that also helps you generate the results because students are preparing on their own. Our students are preparing with competition. They could still come to you to take a test series and improve their rankings, and you also get to affect them and claim the results for your side. That's as far as CUET is concerned.

On the network expansion, our single most important growth after product expansion is going to come from network expansion, and that remains a theme for the next 36 months. We remain focused on getting to 500 centers. There are certain peak delivery quarters, where this is normally is covered. So there will be a little bit of ups and downs. But I think we need to add something like 70 to 100 centers per year for us to get there over the next 3 years. That will continue to be the first or a very clearly visible goal for the next 2.5 to 3 years.

On the student mobility, what it really boils down to at the brass tax levels are actually 3 things. Number one, students who are wanting to go and take admission in a university which is not in India, and that could be at the undergrad level or a post-grad level. That's one, which means you will prepare them for ILS, SAT, GMAT, GRE and so on. That's one test prep part.

The second revenue stream in this is in addition to test prep, as you know and many of you might be having a child or a nephew or a brother who's gone through that recently, the entire application process, call it selection, recommendation, all of that is a very premium part of consulting because the family is spending anywhere between INR 1 crore to INR 1.5 crore over a 4-year period for an undergrad program. And making a little bit of a difference to the choices of colleges, the courses that you take, the country that you choose, it could make a significant difference to the better college becoming accessible to you, number one. Or by doing a thing or 2, you can end up saving money in multiples of $5,000 or $10,000 by doing certain things academically. So that's the second part.

And the third is why the first 2 are relevant for universities who figure in the top 10% or 15% of the universities in a particular country, there is a long tail of universities that are midsized, mid-reputed universities in various countries that look at it as student recruitment. And there, the revenue model for us is we make all the investments. The students are not charged a whole lot of money. Many a time, it is literally free service from us to a student. But you work along with the admissions department of the university, and the university pays you at the end of the year. So it is a deferred revenue model by almost 8 months to 12 months.

So these are the 3 revenue streams of study abroad or student mobility as a practice. We were looking to build it over a next 3-year period. However, what we have done is based on our internal visioning exercise that we undertook in January, we have accelerated that. And some of the investments that we would have done in 2024, we are pushing it. So teams have been added at a little bit of an accelerated pace over the last 1.5 quarters. Conversations with universities, that is being moved up. And that's what we are doing. It's early days, but that has a huge potential. And trust, brand, platform, geographical reach are going to be the business modes that you take into the market to make it a scalable revenue stream for yourself. Back to you, Arjun.

[Arjun Wadhwa, executive]

Thanks, Satya. We've got 2 last questions before we wrap up. One is when do we -- what are the kinds of investments that we are making in the EdTech business? And how long do we expect these sort of investments to continue before the operating leverage starts kicking in and we see growth in EBITDA margins, in the revenue growth? And the second question, while not directly related, but I'll put it there because there could be some linkages. Is most big, well-funded tech players like BYJU's, et cetera, going through bad times? How is it impacting CL if at all?

[R. Narayanan, executive]

Once -- got cut a little bit about the BYJU's thing. The EdTech plays, and then I lost you for about 20 seconds.

[Arjun Wadhwa, executive]

I'll repeat what I said. Most big, well-funded EdTech players like BYJU's are going through a bad time right now. How is it impacting us at all if at all?

[R. Narayanan, executive]

Sure. So I'll take the last one first. One of the things that we have to practice in business building, in long-term value-building and on entrepreneurship, as I keep saying, it's a little bit of a philosophical response, is that we are always going to live and die by our P&L, our balance sheet, our reputation, our ability to have low -- our ability to generate the best student outcomes. All of this is what we are focused on. So when there is a lot of euphoria, we guys don't look as good looking at some others look.

But invariably, it comes back to a greater location of sanity, which is what now is beginning to come. So at that time, the challenges would become things like, "Should I up my marketing investments? Should I increase my salaries because I'm losing 2 people, because they are being bought out by 2x, 3x, 4x kind of salaries?" All of you, all of us have seen it in every industry. Now the talent is beginning to be eased out, but you need to be selective. You need to ensure that the economic value that you can attach to a certain role should be the guiding factor in recruiting somebody. Or the CAC-led, EBITDA-led decisions should be guiding your marketing investments.

So those kinds of things, we might tilt a little to the left or right by about 10%. It's not going to change too much. We are going to focus on our plans, and that's what is as far as the question #2 is concerned, Arjun. Arjun, can you help me recall the question #1 in this that you asked?

[Arjun Wadhwa, executive]

The first question, Satya, was what kind of investments have we made in the EdTech business?

[R. Narayanan, executive]

Yes, yes, yes. So I would like to believe that we must -- or given a choice at any point in time, we will pick up the option of investing earlier than later. And I see investments continuing for the next 6 to 8 quarters, both across the test prep side as well as the study abroad side within EdTech itself. And as long as we are able to justify the quick returns on a disciplined investment, we will go ahead and make those. And we have very stringent internal processes. To close that question, the 3 areas normally our investments would go are technology, people and brand building. These are the 3 places that it goes, and that will continue to go for the next 6 to 8 quarters. Back to you, Arjun.

[Arjun Wadhwa, executive]

Thanks, Satya. We use the acronym PBT, people, brand and technology.

That's a wrap from us for today. Just a reminder, we did a Kestone deep dive. It was a 1.5 hour session last month. For those of you who missed it, we've put up a recording of that session on our Investor zone. Please do check it out, and you can get to know a lot more about how our MarTech business functions and some -- it has some fantastic case studies that Piyush Gupta has shared on the kind of work that we do with specific companies and what it translates into marketing outcomes for them. So please do check out that session when you get a chance.

We'll see you back here in about 3 months' time, as Nikhil said, with our half year lead results. Have a good summer.

[R. Narayanan, executive]

Thank you, Arjun. Thank you, everyone.