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Central Depository Services (India) Ltd
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Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the CDSL FY '24 Conference Call hosted by HDFC Securities. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded.
Ladies and gentlemen, please note that provide specific revenue or earnings guidance. Anything said on this call, which reflects CDSL's outlook for the future or which could be constituted as forward-looking statements must be reviewed in conjunction with direct company.
I'll now hand the conference over to Mr. Amit Chandra from HDFC. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Yes. Thank you, operator. So good morning, everyone. On behalf of HDFC Securities, we welcome you all to the CDSL Quarter 4 FY '24 Earnings Call. Today, we have with us the management represented by Mr. Nehal Vora, NPL; Mr. Girish Amesara, CFO; and other CV leaders. I will start with a brief overview of report by Mr. Nehal Vora, and we will open up for the question and answer session.
Thank you, and over to you, Nehal.
Thank you, Amit, for the introduction. Good morning to everyone. Thank you for joining us today to discuss the financial results for the full year and fourth quarter of the financial year '23, '24. We've provided a conference investor presentation on our website for your convenience.
I'm joined by the CDSL Group today, and we're happy to share our achievements with you. But before we dive into our company's performance, let's take a look at some key aspects of the securities market.
Starting with a broad capital market landscape. Equity turnover has seen a significant increase of more than 50%. Particularly noteworthy is the fourth quarter, we experienced a 126% growth on the year-on-year equity turnover marking it as an exceptional quarter for the entire securities market.
As for CDSL, this has been a special year for us as we celebrated our 25th year of business. In line with this celebration and as for the momentum of growth in the capital market, we have also seen an increase in the number of DMAT accounts opened about 1 crore lakhs plus at accounts have been opened in the fourth quarter of '23/'24, which is the highest in any quarter since our inception.
These kind of achievements are a testament of the growing trust in the Indian capital markets. Our financial performance reflects the trust and efficiency in the capital markets. As a part of our performance, the Board of CDSL has recommended a final dividend of INR 1.19 per equity share, and a special dividend on account of our 25th year anniversary celebration of INR 3 per equity share, totaling to INR 22 per equity share. All this is subject to shareholder approval.
Coming back to the trust and the Indian capital markets to further enhance this trust and market efficiency, we've introduced several initiatives in the past year. These include the optional T+0 settlement, easier with registrations for basically the alternative investment funds and the foreign portfolio investors, the facilitation of health fund secondary market, the electronic consolidated account statement in 23 languages and multilingual services on our website at -- which is all free to the market. These initiatives are aimed at promoting the inclusivity and accessibility of all investors.
As we transition from our 2015 year and move to the next phase, we remain debtless to our commitment towards our efforts towards financing trust in the financial ecosystem and empowering the Hatanaka. I would like to express our gratitude to all our stakeholders who had been steady, that all the other regulators, the issuers, the depository participants, the beneficial owners, employees and all other market participants for their support to CDSL. I would also like to extend heartfelt appreciation to our investors.
Trust continues to drive us forward. Our unwavering focus on creating value for all our fix, enhancing the Indian security to the next level.
Thank you for your continued support and trust. I will now hand it over to Chief Finance.
Thank you, Nehal. Good morning to everyone. Our quarter performance -- this is the total income for the quarter ended March 2024, has increased by 86% to INR 267 crores as against INR 144 crores during the same quarter during the previous year. The net profit for the quarter ended March 2024 has increased by 105% at INR 129 crores as against INR 63 crores for the same quarter during previous year.
For the full financial year, on a consolidated basis, as on 31st March 2024, the total income is increased by 46%.
[Technical Difficulty]
Ladies and gentlemen, management line has been dropped. Stay connected. We are connecting with the management.
Ladies and gentlemen, management's line has been connected.
Okay. So I will restart the financial number once again. Speaking on quarterly performance on a consolidated basis, the total income for the quarter ended March 2024 has increased by 86% to INR 267 crores as against INR 144 crores for the same quarter during the previous year.
The net profit for the quarter ended March 2024 has increased by 105% at INR 129 crores as against INR 33 crores for the same quarter during the previous year. For full financial year, '23, '24 on a consolidated basis, the total income has increased by 46% at INR 907 crores as against INR 621 crores for the previous financial year. The consolidated net profit has increased by 52% to INR 420 crores as against INR 276 crores during the previous financial year.
On a stand-alone quarterly basis, the total income has increased by 82% to INR 205 crores as against INR 113 crores for the same quarter during previous year. The net profit on a stand-alone basis for the quarter ended March 2024 has increased by 39% to INR 97 crores as against INR 52 crores for the same quarter during the previous year.
Speaking on the stand-alone financial year '23, '24 numbers, the total income has increased by 37% to INR 743 crores as against INR 544 crores during the previous financial year. The net profit on stand-alone basis has increased by 34% to INR 53 crore as against INR INR 272 crores for the -- during the previous financial year.
Now I shall request Sunil Alvares to give an update about the operation of the wholly-owned subsidiary, CDSL Venture Limited. Over to you, Sunil.
Good morning, everyone. I'm pleased to report the figures for CDSL Ventures Limited. The total operational income in 5% for FY '24, okay, as compared to FY '23. That is -- it was at INR 169 crores as compared to INR 102 crores for the previous year. The other income increased by 62% from INR 11 crores to INR 19 crores. As a result, the total income increased by 65% from INR 114 crores to INR 188 crores.
As far as expenses are concerned, there was an increase of 54% in the expenses in FY '24 from INR 49 crores to INR 76 crores. As a result, the profit before tax increased by 72% from INR 65 crores to INR 112 crores and the profit after tax increased by 76% from INR 48 crores to INR 86 crores.
With this, now I'd like to open the floor for question and answers.
[Operator Instructions] First question is from the line of Swarnabha Mukherjee from B&K Securities.
Congratulations for a good set of numbers. I have 3 questions. First one on the number of folios. So I just wanted to understand from you that the number of folios the portfolios, how it has moved between FY '23 and FY '24. If you could give some color so that we can understand how the analyst changes can be from first quarter onwards. That is the first question.
Second is, in terms of the 2 opportunities, which might give us some incremental traction on the top line front, just wanted to understand the understood companies, the recent regulation you have been -- if you could give us some idea about what opportunity sizes we were looking at what could be the number of potential number of companies that you can target for this financial year and overall opportunity side. I understand that it's a moving target, but at the current standpoint, if some idea you can give.
And thirdly, on the insurance -- reinsurance side with the new regulation. How do you look at the landscape? And what could be our potential opportunity side?
So the first question is a forward-looking statement. So we're not -- we don't give forward guidance. So I would not be able to give an answer. The point in question is portfolios, which have happened in the previous financial year, which I get billed to the companies in the first quarter. So once the first quarter results, whatever would be announced we will have some perspective at that stage.
On the second question on the unlisted company. As I have said in my last investor call also, the deadline is September 2024. And it has conditions of private companies, which have a turnover of INR 40 crores or share capital of INR 4 crores. But only when these companies would like to either raise capital or transfer any capital that's the time the demat will be required to be done on a compulsory basis.
So it will have to be wait and watch because there are these conditions only when they get triggered, that's the time the demat opportunity will come into play. It is not kind of a simple rule. It has certain is and went though all of them get satisfied it almost. So it will be difficult to predict what will be the population at this stage. We'll have to wait and watch as the further quarters move forward.
On the insurance side, there has been a few amount of changes, but it's kind of really work in progress. We have a full team now looking at our insurance repository. I've spoken about it about 2 or 3 quarters before. So we have now a team in place. And we have basically the right building blocks to ensure that this kind of real opportunity would really translate into business as we move forward.
The next question is from the line of Prakash Kapadia from Anived PMS.
I have 2 questions. If you could get a sense of what is the mark-to-market gain in the other income for the whole year? And secondly, what is the employee base as on date versus last year at a group level? And the impact of salary hikes and any will be felt in Q1, right? Is that the right understanding? Those were my questions.
I'll ask Sunil to answer that.
I'll answer you on account of employees. This year, we have closed at INR 335 as account CDSL. And last year, it was 229 employees. Okay.
Three at the group level, right?
No, this is CDSL DHL. And Mascoma gain on investment is 37 as on 31st March '24. And the increment would be obviously factored in the next quarter or the next financial year.
Till the Q1. I'll join back in queue.
The next question is from the line of Amit Chandra from HDFC Securities.
First question is on the insurance opportunity. So obviously, you mentioned that still not there. But as in the regulation has mentioned that from first of April, all policies, will we have to be issued in the regulatory format. So is it fair to assume that still this ability in terms of what digital format means? Or are we seeing traction in terms of the accounts being created. And also the market share that we have in terms of the port is still very low. So what's the strategy out there in terms of will we plan to be aggressive on the insurance side? Or it's too early as of now?
And second would be on the cost side. Obviously, we have seen a fairly strong jump in the revenues. But correspondingly, the cost also has been on the higher side and especially technology cost has been inching up especially in the last 1.5 years. So from here on, is it all the investments in technology over or still we have to expand our technology capability in terms of handling the higher volumes?
So on the insurance side, it's the regulation is yet getting evolved. I think companies -- insurance companies are required to issue the certificates, other insurance policies and digital format, but what happens about the old? And so these are all things which are kind of evolving, and we will see.
In terms of our strategy, it's the entire tech stack, which is -- which we are contributing to and hence, the entire move towards an online technological impact. Our footprint on the insurance side is where we suppose that we should be able to. But these are -- will take some time because kind of building on this will take the market has really understand what are considered nuances, et cetera. So it's basically an infrastructure company. So it takes time for it to build up. But we are very, very hopeful, and we have put in our people there, our technology there. So we'll see how it goes forward.
On the past, our technology and people are the true main costs for CDSL. And this will continue to -- we will continue to invest in that because we have to ensure that the value proposition remains both in terms of infrastructure as well as the applications, which are being used. And to ensure that -- and these are all kind of on to -- it's seena process of change. So we'll have to continue to remain being invested. Although it's just questions, I'm not able to give too many details. But in terms of our focus remains on investing in technology and people as we go there.
And sir, one last question. So how do you see the regulatory environment because we have seen some regulatory tightening on the exchanges side. So in terms of the regulatory risk, do you see any kind of risk in terms of pricing because we have been doing so well on volumes. So is there any kind of risk that you see on the pricing pace?
I'm not able to give a definite answer here because I think this is, again, in the future. It's also contingent on what the regulators think. But I think the cost, the pricing is approved by SEBI in case of depositories. So it's taken on record and then it's taken forward from there. So I think we'll see how it goes forward.
The next question is from the line of Rishab from RBS Investment Manager.
Sir, talks of single dime-forall types of investments have been going on long. But based on, say, your discussion with various authorities, what level of discussions are going on, so can we see any light here in the next near future, so some to understand your thoughts?
So I think it's a process of change, everything happens. I think the account aggregator model has -- is in the process is getting picked up. So we'll see how it goes forward, how that will get linked to a same agreement. This is a long-term kind of proposition. We'll have to be seen on how in which framework format it will come in.
Obviously, the ease of doing business is a focus of all the SEBI government as well as all with the regulator. So it will move towards that kind of framework is what we all hope, but it will be difficult to really predict at this stage as to how and what framework performance is impacted.
And sir, how much incremental cost for stake we have to do with this comes in the next 2, 3 years. Is there any bulker range or any -- as a percentage of current investment that you have made. How big investments do we have to make for this to handle such volumes basically?
It will be difficult to predict because we don't know in what format framework -- the new framework, if at all, it will come. So first, you'll have to really observe what is the framework, if at all it comes. And then we'll only able to really assess. Any way we don't give any forward-looking on future statements. So I would not be able to give you a specific answer on this.
The next question is from the line of Supratim Datta from AMBIT Capital.
I have 2 questions. One, on the cost front, have you a significant jump in both employee and step costs in the post business and a loan business? And if I look at the subsidiaries, there has been sane jump on the debt cost in the fourth quarter again.
Also, if you could just explain to us what are the areas you are investing at the stand-alone level in terms of employee and debt and in the subsidiary that has taken questions on. That would be very helpful.
The second question is on the full year all you don't take the full year numbers, but could you give us what I think the growth portfolios this year versus last?
Lastly, could give us update some of the other comp and other stuff.
The first cost technology has been all around on security network. So it's an old round because the volume number of the meteoring that to be a base with that. But more importantly, we have in the company. So we will have to kind of preempt also the potential growth. So we enter the technology, but it takes time to build technology. And therefore, it has been all around.
Similarly, there has been a similar kind of technology growth, which has seen million subsidiaries. CDSL has also seen a good growth. So we need to really invest in technology out there also.
The people and technology is something, which will continue. And these things don't happen very fast it takes time for you to invest in bots. So you need to really preplan in future -- in kind of really in advance as to how you will be investing in this. So that is reply to your first question.
Your second question was...
The second question was on the breakup of other income. So other income largely consists of PKS charges of INR 9.37 crores, e-voting charges of INR 4.42 crores and miscellaneous income in terms of user facility charges maintenance in like of such income tax.
So reporting was 4.42%, right?
Yes.
And my second -- I had another question on the Folio growth. If you...
We don't give those numbers out in the big domain. So I'm sure we will not be able to do.
Okay. And just 1 follow-up question for you. You said you made investments on the tech side in architecture facility and similarly corresponding employee investments have been in. If I could understand that the current infrastructure in place, how many portfolios or net account would you be able to period?
See, it is not just folios and demand account. There are a lot of new products. For example, T+0 has come in. That will need new processes and new in AIF processing has come in. So it's not just a simplistic answer that how many folios you can do or et cetera. It's a combination of various factors, which come into play. Also new kind of value propositions, which are being put into the system to make it easier for pet to trade, et cetera. For example, in eCAS is now in multiple languages.
So these are some of the things. So therefore, it is not linked to the folios. It's linked to the overall processing with the system is expected to do with a lot of features, which has come in addition to the load wages.
The next question is from the line of Prakash, an individual investor.
So firstly, for dinner and one for the pro I have anomalies positive. So is there any how we individual policy is clear in a country, how does it change for the accounting creation or for the maintenance of those accounts.
And secondly, we just wanted to understand that we are comping that completion. And how do you see cash consideration for you?
Pratik, can you repeat the second question? Line is a little unclear. I cannot follow your question clearly. Can you come closer to the mic?
I just wanted to understand that as you mentioned that investor presentation that CDSL completed almost 25 years of Silver Jubilee and as I understood that a lot of cash on the balance sheet as well and adequate cases also. Is there any plan for any kind of corporate cell like buyback or done for any specialty vein going forward?
So we have given a special dividend, is obviously subject to approval of shareholders for 25 years. So it's INR 19 plus INR 3, INR 22. The remaining part will have to be seen and assessed as we move forward. So I will not be able to give any specific answer on that.
And on the fourth question, that is the repricing structure for Super budget?
For the insurance deposit rate?
Yes, yes.
So the insurance deposit, the pricing structure is as I think it should be there. Yes.
So for the insurance sector, pricing structure is added in to open that creation of DIA and annual maintenance. So maintenance is INR 25, okay, which is start to the insurance company and not to the holder of the policy.
For creation, onetime charge of 20 is levered on the insurance company. So these are the 2 recurring charges that charge with the insurance companies and not to the policyholders.
And I think you'll find this on the other side the website.
The next question is from the line of Marat from Alliance Capital.
Congratulations on a very good set of results. I had 2 sets of questions. And one thing I -- one of the points I missed or I just wanted you to clarify that. The clarification part is that 1 of the earlier participants had asked you regarding the insurance evolution in the insurance segment, the recent announcement for electronic issuance. And you had mentioned something that it is still evolving. Can you just repeat that part? I missed that part.
Yes. So the point is that the law is out, how this will pan out between what the insurance companies will do for the insurance depositories to, will the value chain work. All this is kind of in the prospect of support.
Understood. But based on the timing, the electronization would have that already, right?
They could have started so that as also they can output the 2 current deposits. So both those models are there. So how it will finally pan out for the market, what is the value computation for the is something we'll have to in evolve.
Understood. I just want to understand the point of ensured companies can do it by themselves. I believe, sir, that they have to go through a depository only for this to maintain electronic form. Is it possible for...
I don't think so. It is only to depository. It could be themselves or it could be. But I need to check this with my insurance team. Unfortunately, it's not fair today, the CEO of the insurance repository. But if you want, you can send us an e-mail, and we will have it repriced.
Understood. Okay. So my question regarding the insurance repository part, is that as of our annual report, FY '23 for the insurance opposite business. LIC is not -- we are not tied up with LIC. So in the current financial year, have we tied up with LIC because they are the largest insurance issuing agency?
So the process effort is all going on. Again, it's all futuristic. Whenever we will have that, we will kind of disclose that. But we generally don't talk about specific insurance companies on this call.
Understood. Okay. I'll connect with you offline for that.
And then my second question, is that regarding the TV settlement and instant settlement, we had started with 25 strips only. So I just wanted to understand the progress on that part. Are we moving ahead with increasing the script over there? Or what kind of progress are we making over there?
So if you see the steady press release, it clearly talked about this is the beta phase. And they will see how many people have participated. Has there been any issues, et cetera. And based on that, we said we will take that call whether it has to be increased in what framework to how many stocks, et cetera. So those are all the nuances you should just pay attention to the press release, if any, which will get issued by SEBI in this regard.
Understood. Perfect. But based on our technological developments, there are no hiccups in the process as proper?
So we have been part of the ecosystem. So we have seen it go fairly smoothly until now. There have been no issues that is from the CDSL. Mainly talk about myself. But I think overall, I don't if there has been any issues.
The next question is from the line of Madhukar from Nuvama.
Congrats on a great set of numbers. Just to action from my side. First one is insurance deposit so INR 20 per new account creation of INR 25 -- is it per account maintenance or is it per policy?
And second -- so -- but now can have policies from many different insurance companies. So who will pay that INR 25, please?
See, I think I would request you can send us an e-mail. We don't have our insurance for either I'll have that specificity replied to so that it is -- actually, if you can send across this query on e-mail, we will have a look at it.
Okay. I'll do that. And the other thing is also, you in your annual report , I think the insurance depository revenue is about INR 5 million. But obviously, the number of policies is a lot more. So are you actually making that amount? That's the other question, if you can answer that.
You're making that amount in I understand.
On a per policy basis, how much are you making? Or I mean, is -- are these Zarate...
I would recommend just send across your were. Again, see, it's a process of some policies are already there, which have to be taken from the insurance company. Some is getting newly opened. So there are various nuances to that. I would again request you just send us your questions on the insurance repository, and we will have them replied.
All right, sir. And a couple of other questions on the online data charges is moved up quite sharply. So I wanted to know is it majority, was the new account openings? Or is it more with steps? And I believe the total record created should be around 70 million right now. Can you sort of clarify on that also? That will be helpful.
And finally, your other charges, what portion of it is regulating target? And they seem to be on the higher side. So I wanted to understand what is the driver of that?
So I'll ask Sunil to answer this.
So in the last financial year, both the number of records created and a number of records stretched have gone up substantially, which added to the overall KYC income.
What was the second question? Sorry, I didn't get that.
So the number of records that we have right now, if you can take that number all that?
We actually don't give off that number. So think we don't give that number right now.
Okay. And the other charges, how much is the regulatory costs as -- so expenses are higher. So what are -- what is guiding that, please?
So the regulatory cost, full financial is almost INR 38 crores in this financial year. And this is directly linked the percentage of the operating revenue for higher operating revenue, this charge.
Okay. And what is the formula...
Regulation perspect that 5% of your operating profit needs to be contributed to the investor protection fund. So majority charge is on account of this number.
But it seems INR 38 crores would be much more than that 5% number, right?
I don't think so. You have to look at operating profit and then arrive at this number. And this number is inclusive of that expense. So it works -- we have to assume that this expenditure is already there and then work out 5% of the operating profit. That's how it is calculated.
So like your FY '24 EBIT is about INR 462 crores.
Work out operating...
Point is trying to make it as a formula, which has to be put in place to arrive at this 5%, which needs to be debited. It's not a straight application on the profit numbers.
Understood. I'll take some more detail with you offline. And apart to that, I think is the main driver of the other expenses? Or are there other HI. what was this number last year? Last year, this number was -- how much was the regulatory panel?
Last year, the regulatory cost was INR 26 crores. This year, it is INR 38 crores.
The next question is from the line of Nikhil Agarwal from VT Capital.
My question was on your transaction charges that pleased significantly year-on-year as well as quarter-on-quarter. But the revenue per demand, if you calculate it in that manner, it's been quite volatile. I suppose the only component of that is other delivery charges that are deducted when a trade takes place in the delivery segment. Is that right? Or is there any other component to that as well?
No, there is also a way we played target margin black charges. There is maybe the debit charges. So it's a combination of various other transactions happening.
Okay. So the debit charges, like it depends on -- I mean, could you explain the reason for this volatility? I mean, if like 1 quarter, it was INR 11 per demat, when it comes now it was, I think it was INR 6 per demat. If you could -- can you explain this volatility?
See, you are taking a wrong number of demat will not really work because open the transaction that macro cup of transactions which are touring, which occurring. So opening of demat can be opened at any point of time. Yes, there is. Not out of the number of transactions which happened or the place transactions happens or the debit transaction happen, which contributes to the -- this particular ran.
So can you like give some metrics year-on-year, what has that changed? Like if you could give us the percentage of delivery turnover as a percentage of market turnover?
If you see basically the delivery-based volumes on the exchanges, there is -- there will be some amount of linkage to that because it's how much delivery is happening on the stock exchange platforms. Mean for how many we will have to have.
Can you quantify, I mean, last year, what was it? And what is it currently in FY '24 on an average and FY '22 on an average, what does it mean?
In terms of revenue number?
Yes. I mean in terms of the delivery turnover percentage and that you mention.
Website, you will get from the website. I -- you asked me how it should be complete, but it's a combination. Again, you cannot have 1 number. It's a multitude of transactions, which are happening. How many the pledging is happening? How many repledging is happening? How many location is happening? How many sales are happening? You asked for some number, so I gave you that number. You will have to look at how much is -- but that will not give you a 1:1 correlation. It will be depending on the volume in the market, how many is translating into delivery, how many will margin pledges, et cetera, is created. So it's something which cannot be -- that has 1:1. That is all I'm trying to say.
The next question is from the line of Sanketh Godha from Avendus.
Sir, how few data keeping question, which you usually disclose. Can you share the unlisted income in the annual issued charges, pledge income in the transaction charges and impairment costs for the fourth quarter and the full year. That's the question number one.
And if I can repeat -- if you can repeat cash income for the fourth quarter, it will be useful. I missed that number. That's my first question.
So total unlisted income for the quarter ended March is INR 1 crore 8,500,000 lakh. For full year, it is INR 545 -- INR 545 crores. Market net income for the quarter is INR 5.95 crores.
Okay. For the full year, sir? Sorry, if you can give the pledge income for the full year, too?
Full year is INR 17.5 crores.
Okay. And if you can give impairment costs?
Sorry?
Impairment costs.
The main I am on that. The impairment there is a cost of INR 8 crores for the full financial year on impairment. And for the quarter, we have a reversal of INR 1.11 crores.
Okay. Okay. INR 1.1 crore diverse. And then if you can tell me that in if you can repeat that to be.
Cash income for the quarter is INR 97 crores.
Great. Okay. That the next question, I -- has largely with the defect cost. I understand that the increase in the tech and all the things, but from INR 308 crores, it's going to INR 63 crores is a meaningful jump in the current year. So the INR 63 crores also included report insurance repository fixed costs because you wanted to scale it up given the regulations are coming. And if that is the case, do we expect this number to tone down a bit going ahead, given we have already done 65% year-on increase in the cost in the current year. I just wanted to understand that how should we look at this number going ahead?
See again, as I'm telling you, reform I'm going to continue. There are going to be changes in the rules, the regulatory rules, there are going to be changes in newer products coming in. There is potential of growth, which is possible. So it will be difficult.
One is we don't give any future outlook. But also, it will be difficult to really predict at this stage, we have to ensure that this is the bread-and-butter of CDSL. Technology and people are its bread and butter. So we have to not only ensure that the current state of volume is continuing, but even the potential future, which could potentially come in is kind of planned and factored in because building a technology platform, it takes its own time. And therefore, this is a process, which is continuously going to evolve as we are going to move forward. And we're going to get more and more sophisticated to ensure that the value proposition really remains.
Sir, but the INR 63.3 crores for the full year, does it include something related to insurance, which you might have done as one-off in the current year, but might not be repeated in the next year.
The insurance is some part of it, a small part of it. Again, we'll have to see how it pans out. It will be difficult for me to give you a specific answer whether this will repeat again or not repeat again. It will have to be seen as to how the policies the entire framework, as I told earlier, is getting evolved. And we have to ensure that the technology is really up to speed to ensure that the value proposition remains.
Sir, the reason I'm asking this question is that given insurance will be a new opportunity and it's a big onetime big opportunity, which will suddenly come in FY '25. Then are we required to do more than expected additional tech cost in FY '25 to fulfill the requirement of insurance? Or we are up to the mark with respect to that requirement.
Again, as I'm telling you that the insurance sector framework is evolving. It is not that it has evolved and we are trying to build it. So we are trying to repeat the same question again in different words. I'm trying to again and again tell you that we'll have to wait and watch. We will have to ensure. And as you have seen that we have kept the pace with what the volume is there to ensure that the technology is in sync with that. That's all I'm going to say.
Got it. And next question is on insurance targets that you said from AMP and INR 20 is EIA creation cost. But I believe these targets are very comfortable. These are at cost, but actual cost when you onboard an insurance company, might be meaningfully lower? Or you expect to follow back charges when to open the accolation charges or the tax?
See, again, these are some we don't put out in public domain. These are all things, which remains within our system. But however, if you have any specific questions to the extent we put it out in the public domain, you send us an email, we will have it replied.
Got it. Got it, sir. And on insurance, insurance on more thing, compared to last year, if you're aware how many number of companies I have increased for us because we were predominant in the past, a life insurance company -- diet companies, we had very limited exposure to general and health. And honestly, the bigger opportunity in the new norms is sitting in general insurance. We just wanted to understand whether we have...
The numbers, specific customers, type of customers, et cetera, we don't give us a public comment. I would really request that what we can, we can, what we cannot, we cannot.
Got it, sir. And lastly, on capital market because I think you published that number in the annual report, it will be great. I think last time also you said that number is INR 6.5 crores number of -- capital market reports with the same KYC business. If you can spell that number for the full year, it will be useful.
Yes, we will see as part of the annual report, it will come out when we come out very shortly.
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Supratim Datta from AMBIT Capital.
This is a follow-up question. Just wanted to understand on the management transition. So I currently understand that a short lift has been submitted to SEBI. Just wanted to understand what are the time lines? And do you expect the to get back? And could you disclose who are on that short list as well? That would be helpful.
So the process is on. It's a confidential list. And whenever there is a steady kind of a standard operating procedure at the time when it is required to be announced, CDSL would promptly announce that. So at this stage, it will not be possible to but that is basically the SOP would not require us to.
Okay. But how much time would the profit typically take?
It will be difficult for me to answer that question. That is on.
The next question is from the line of Miraj from Audience Capital.
I just want to understand that the technological costs that we've taken for the T+0 settlement. Do we have to spend any more for the instant settlement part? Or have you already incurred that because that will be the next stage of development?
The post and process of evolution. So plus 0 tomorrow, there is instant but sometimes there will be some other reform. So that will be a continuous process because the framework will have to be spent out. And based on that, what is the cost on intra applications? All that will have to be assessed at them. So it will not be possible to specifically answer whether the costs have been incurred or not because it's a process of real evolution at this stage in terms of installs. In terms of how the framework will work in.
There are no further questions. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Nehal Vora for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Yes. I would like to thank you for all your questions. I wish you all remain safe and secure. Thank you so much. Take care.
Thank you. On behalf of HDFC Securities, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.