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Central Depository Services (India) Ltd
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Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Central Depository Services (India) Limited Q4 FY '18 Earnings Conference Call hosted by Axis Capital Limited. [Operator Instructions]I now hand the conference over to Mr. Praveen Agarwal from Axis Capital. Thank you, and over to you, Mr. Agarwal.
Thank you, [ Anikheet ]. Good evening, everybody, and welcome to this earnings call. We have with us Mr. P.S. Reddy, MD and CEO; Mr. Bharat Sheth, CFO; and Mr. Nilesh Kittur, to discuss the results.I would request Mr. Reddy to give us a brief overview of the quarterly results, post which we'll open the floor for Q&A. Over to you, Mr. Reddy.
Thank you, Mr. Agarwal. Welcome to the conference call, analyst call of CDSL. And this year, we have done exceedingly well, as you have seen the results. Apart from the quarter, the overall year has been good. Capital markets are booming, and the new issues have substantially lifted our revenues. And Mr. Bharat will tell you the revenue hedge, which has substantially contributed. And the agri -- on the macro level, our market share is now 46.5% as of the end of the financial year, and it was 44% at the beginning of the year, and that's a substantial gain that we have made. And in the current year, in the last year, we have opened 25.72 lakh accounts; as with the competition, 15.11 lakh accounts. The incremental market share has gone up to 63%, so that has lifted the aggregate market share. The CVL also has substantially contributed to the growth, and now it's almost 30% of the top line at this point in time. One minute, sir. This is -- yes, 19% of the top line and 43% of the profits that contributed. And in terms of CVL KYC, we have about INR 1.7 crores KYCs. Hopefully, these slides are relevant, and people are using it. And what is important is the multiple uses of the KYCs has resulted in substantial income. That's one part of it.The second part of it is eKYCs is [ also ] doing well. And a lot of online [ activity ] is happening within the eKYC. Of course, there is some rough patch that we are currently going through because of the KYC. [ Other ] should not be used, and then the macro is under the -- margin is subsidized. So until the final issue is finally decided by the Supreme Court of India, probably, there will be some slow process of improving the applications. But otherwise, it's doing well.The other part of it is the National Academic Depository. Here again, we are a market leader at this point in time. And the number of economic institutions, which have signed hospitals are 431 [indiscernible]; [ competition, 190 ]. And we have 47 universities or accredited institutions which are given a [ new propane tank ]. So we are setting up there whatever the integration part of it. Once that is done, they will also sign up.And when it comes to the commodity depository which recently we launched, of course, there's no income except the investment income at this point in time. It was launched sometime in September. And there are about 72 depository participants who already registered so far. And a very few accounts have been opened. And the ecosystem is still being developed. We are conducting a lot of awareness programs with the warehouses, with banks, with commodity traders. And we set a lot of [ mundies ] where the major [ mundies ] where the various products are being traded. So the response has been very encouraging. That's one another important thing that we have done there.The other part of it is SEBI has granted the registration for the [ restructuring ] issue. Yes, license, we got it. And -- but we will be starting shortly.The -- there's also news you must have already [ heard ] also. The unlisted companies are also going to be implicated with the depositories because then only the government or the Ministry of Company Affairs will get a complete view over what's happening in different places with respect to the shareholding. That is -- there is also discussions around, and that's [ center of the lineup ] for business that we are looking at it. Of course, we're not going to be as big as the listed companies [ for the years ]. Obviously, there won't be much transfers, but [ certainly more important there ].We are also looking at another important piece. Thanks to the online account opening, there is the eSign project. So for doing eSign, you need to be -- you can work with somebody with a [ subfind authority ]. Or you yourself can become a [ subfind authority ]. So we are currently working with Lanco, another branch of GLFC, which is a [ subfind authority ]. So we thought there are only 4 in the state, and we think we should be doing well by entering into it. Maybe going forward, online eSigning will take in a major shape. But then we should be bearing there when it is really big. That's why our board, especially the CVL Board, has decided to take up that equity as well. Recently, we don't expect any great revenues, but then only time will tell how far we will do it, how better we will do it in this space, but the eSign part of it.So these are the major developments in this space. And I will ask -- I will -- then another thing that the board has decided was to lock earlier, issued [ about ] 30%. This year, it has decided to declare a 35% dividend. That is INR 3.55 per share of dividend. But this year, dividend payout ratio of 47%, which is by and large maintained the last 3 years. That's what we have been doing and then that's maintained, 47% dividend payout ratio.Now I will ask my colleague, Bharat Sheth, to speak on the financials.
Good evening, everybody. On consolidated results on annual basis, first-time real growth, total income of INR 225 crores is more than INR 200 crores real growth. And first-time real growth paid after -- profit after tax of INR 100 crores, it comes to INR 103 crores, as such.Increasing operational income by 31% and increasing expenditure by 20%, whereas profit before tax has increased by 21% on consolidated basis, whereas paid is up 20%. Whereas on stand-alone basis, first-time real growth INR 150 crores turnover operational income. And the profit before tax first-time real growth INR 100 crores, that is INR 106.3 crores, as such.From a stand-alone basis, operational income increased by 27%. Quarterly expenses increased by 14%. And profit before tax increased by 16%, whereas profit after tax is 14%. On quarterly basis in Q3 -- Q4 versus Q3, on consolidated basis is more -- towards operational income is more or less [ then there ] is 1% increases [ then ]. But other income has increased by 67% quarter 4 versus quarter 3. Whereas quarterly expenditure increased by 13%. Profit before tax increased by 4%, and net profit by 2%, as such.And on stand-alone basis, operational income quarter 4 versus quarter 3 by 2%, and other income increased by 55%. Other income means income from mutual funds, as such. And the total expenditure increased by 10% quarter-on-quarter basis, whereas profit before tax increased by 6% and profit after tax by 7%.So I would -- and the consolidated basis as well as stand-alone basis, all told. So I would like to open the forum for question-and-answer.
[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of [ Sanjay Latha ] from [ Bofek Research ].
The deposit reach had been awkward and very similar across competitors. What certain things are we deploying to get incremental market share?
Well, to get incremental market share, the online account opening is one thing that we are concentrating on. And we are looking at more and more equity and more and more DPs and more and more fintech firms, and it will become DPs. Obviously, they will be able to ramp up our account opening faster than everybody else. Certainly, we are looking at it.
And then the second question is, you described that unlisted companies also had pre-registered. Could it be [indiscernible]?
No. LCE is considering the opportunity of private limited companies and others to admit [ there committee's mandated views ], okay? And that -- if once that mandate takes a concrete shape, obviously, they will be asked to dematerialize the entire shareholding into depositories. Now they may choose one of the depositories. We don't know whether they will mandate it. We hope so that investors will have a record with either of the depositories and stream the biggest service. [indiscernible] only with one of you -- one of them to reduce their costs. And obviously, the cost will not be -- or the tariff will not be as high as what SEBI has mandated with listed companies to pay, but to that extent, it will be much lower than what it is.
Okay. And sir, the last question from my side is, what is the addressable size of opportunities it presents?
Come again?
What is the addressable size of opportunity?
From [ unlisted ] companies?
From the services you are offering.
What are the other opportunities, like the addressable opportunities?
What are the addressable opportunities? Look...
Addressable size of opportunities, like how much the total size of the opportunities we are gathering, like [indiscernible] they are a INR 1,000 crores market share and [indiscernible] they are a INR 1,000 crores industry. So like what is the addressable size of...
That, we will not be able to share anything of those things. That's not appropriate for us to comment.
The next question is from the line of Nitin Agarwal from JM Financial.
Sir, my first question is regarding the recent news where SEBI panel by -- headed by R Gandhi is likely to recommend allowing new corporate houses or private companies to get license for depository services. So I wanted to know what is the status on this? And if allowed by SEBI, then how will the competition pan out in the next 2 years?
Actually, we thought two itself is a crowd in the depository space. If a third one comes, I don't know what to say on that. But then as you said, not -- I don't know what the Gandhi committee has actually said because nothing official has come out as yet on this. It's only newspaper reports that discussed in bits and pieces. So we will see and then evaluate realistically what the Gandhi committee has said and then what the competition -- what we should do to fend the competition. Having said that, my view is that there's not enough space for too many depositories to work in this space because the depository participants' total income and expenditure and the product is by and large homogeneous, and the market is, especially the ones -- the toughest players are already tied up with either NSDL or CDSL. So even if a third one comes, then the depository parts will [ sort to tie up with the third one ], and there's an expenditure at their end. Whereas they will be linked to and locate their expenditure, I don't know. I don't think there's a viable option, okay, at this point in time. That's what our thinking is. But then we'll see how it will pan out. But there's no imminent danger in our view.
Okay. And my second question is, if you could give us the revenue bifurcation for FY '18 for annual issuer transaction charges, IPO, corporate action and online data charges?
Okay. On consolidated basis, any issuer charges FY '17, it was INR 51 crores 71 lakhs. It has increased to INR 55 crores 62 lakhs, increased by 8%. Transaction charges from INR 31 crores, it has increased to INR 44 crores, that is increased by 41%. IPO corporate expense charges from INR 16.5 crores, it has increased to INR 29.48 crores, that is increased by 79%. Whereas online data charges from INR 18.7 crores, it has increased to INR 29.18 crores, that is 56%.
The next question is from the line of Anand Laddha from HDFC Mutual Funds.
Sir, can you some kind of, like, how does annual issuer charges calculated?
Yes. So annual issuer charges, on 2 fronts: one on a slab basis or on a folio basis. For example, if sell capital admitted is more than INR 20 crores, then we can charge them INR 75,000. So for example, Reliance, [ take it, x-rated ] company is adding INR 25 crores to their capital, then I can charge them [ INR 75,000 ] on the basis of slab. But if they are having a 10 lakhs folio with us, then I can [charge ] 10 lakh [ into ] [ INR 11,500 ]. Yes, whichever is higher, like that we are charging.
Okay. And there's charges across both NSDL and CDSL?
Yes, yes.
Mandated by SEBI.
Yes, mandated by SEBI.
Okay. And the case also of IPO corporate action charges, how that is linked, sir?
IPO corporate action charges based on the number of folio results, that is INR 10 portfolio we are charging or minimum file size 10,000 bits per file, like that.
Okay. And sir, how is the transaction charges being charged, sir?
Transaction charges from INR 4.25 [ paper ] to INR 5.50 [ paper ], depends on the volume of business given by the depository participant. And that is transaction only, like mobile phone, incoming is free, outgoing is charged.
Sorry, I didn't catch the last one, sir.
It is only direct transaction we are charging, not...
So I understand you're selling only the data charge, not at the time of purchase.
Right.
Okay. And can you -- what is the number of companies listed with the CDSL corporate?
At present, 7,539 companies are there listed with us.
And this includes listed, unlisted, both together or...
Yes. Yes, yes, together, both together, 10,628 companies are there, 10,000 listed.
10,000?
Yes, yes.
Okay, 7,539 are listed.
Yes, yes.
Okay. Sir, can you also give the revenue of CDSL Ventures?
CDSL Ventures, yes.
Right. CDSL Ventures, yes, CDSL Venture on an annual basis is on 30% by 2017. Operational income was INR 24 crores. It has increased to INR 37 crores, 51% increase in operational income. Other income means mutual fund investment income from INR 5 crores 14 lakhs to INR 6 crores 13 lakhs. That is increased by 14%. Whereas total expenditure from INR 6 crores to INR 10 crores, it has increased by 63%. Whereas profit before tax from INR 23 crores to INR 32 crores, that is increased by 39%. And profit after tax from INR 17 crores to INR 24 crores, that is increased by 38%.
Okay. And sir, how much stake do you have in the venture, is it 100%?
Yes, yes, 100%.
Okay. Sir, in the CDSL Ventures, with charges on the basis of the KYC, sir, what is the basis of charge? Like, how do we charge part of the -- how can we charge a certain amount, like in the case of transaction charges?
No, here, the per-kit KYC usage, the charges vary. Similarly, when you create KYC, there is one charge. And when you use -- when somebody uses the KYC, the charge is different. So that's the main clause.
Okay. So how much of the charges are per KYC user and how much the charges for KYC...
By and large, standard, but then some of the intermediaries who are giving big volumes, there is a discount also [ out ] there. You can use it.
Okay. Sir, if you can you give some color, like how much KYC we could have created in FY '18 versus FY '17?
Yes, I will tell you. 21 lakhs, 28,000 -- around 22 lakhs KYC created during the year.
This is the new KYC created?
Yes, yes, during the year.
This 22 lakhs is the new customer which has come or it is a sample of a customer could have on KYC [indiscernible]?
This our new KYC, new KYC.
New KYC, okay. Okay. Sir, similarly, you could have a data of KYC. This is also -- how much KYC could you have?
I say that is a big contention. We don't disclose that, okay, because there are 4 other competition -- competitors out there.
Who else are there along with you in terms of competition?
NDML, CAMS, Karvy, DotEx.
Sorry, NDML?
NDML. NSDL data management subscription. And CAMS is there, Karvy is there, DotEx is there and its subsidiary.
Okay, DotEx also there.
Yes, but we are the largest among all that, among all the 5.
Okay. Just a small request. If you can give quarterly breakup of your revenue in terms of how much is the annual charges, IPO, online data charges, it would really help us in analyzing it every quarter.
Every quarter, you wanted that. But that is the format what ADSN companies that accordingly we are seeing.
You can't give in a press release a breakup of the revenue to help us assess.
Definitely, we will look into it.
Okay. And sir, when you say online data charges, how do you charge and what business is charged there?
It is the same with KYC charges, only they call it online data charges.
The next question is from the line of Abhishek Jain from Vallum Capital.
Sir, you're revenue on Q-on-Q basis seems to be flat. Sir, what are the reasons for that theme? And second question is, your interest income, yield is so low against so much of investment. So can you just bifurcate how much you are, like, earning interest and how much cash is, like, very idle?
About the operational income, it is flat. It depends always on the market. And quarter-to-quarter basis, it is stable, as such. If you see quarter 1, 2, 3, 4, it is more or less stable, actually, and it depends on number of IPOs as well as corporate action on a particular quarter. It varies accordingly. Regarding the other income, our yield is -- other income quarter-to-quarter is between [ 200 ], 90% of the investment are in mutual funds, as such, SMPs are there, short-term funds are there. So it depends on an [ NAV ] base because [indiscernible] provided for the [ NAV ], whatever mark-to-market we have to date. So as of 31st December, whatever [ NAVs ] are there, if you see even 31st March, it has increased. That's why [indiscernible]. And compared to -- there are 2 components: one is tax-free and one is taxable components are there in the investment also. So it is approximately 8.18% [ has come ]. If you compare to last one, that is last year, it is to 9.69% because investable -- because we have invested in the property, so around INR 52 crores was not available to us because of that.
How much amount is, like, available on which you earn interest income? I'm asking that [indiscernible] how much Capex is available...
INR 550 crores.
INR 550 crores.
And on which you are earning, how much amount?
8%.
8.1%.
8.1%. And sir, some quarters is into the regulatory cash mandate. So are you earning interest on that part?
That is whatever [indiscernible].
Come again, please? What are you asking?
There is some regulatory mandate to, like, for you not to maintain INR 210 crores, that's the cash or cash equivalent...
Regulatory requirement.
Regulatory requirement.
So are you earning some interest on that part also?
Yes, yes, despite INR 15 crores, that also.
[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Prakash Kapadia from Anived Portfolio Management Services.
Congrats on a very strong revenue growth and crossing the INR 1 billion [ bagged ] figure for the year.
Can I interrupt? Mr. Kapadia, can you please speak closer to the phone?
Sure, yes. Am I audible now?
Yes, yes.
Yes. I was saying congrats to the entire team for the very strong revenue growth and INR 1 billion [ bagged ] figure for the -- you were INR 1 billion sales a few years ago, so we hope this is very structural, and congrats to the team for that.
Thank you.
Sir, if I directionally look at some of the investment growth, the share of noncurrent investment has been going up. So if you could give us some idea of the 10-year or duration of the noncurrent book, and will this continue? Is this a conscious strategy on our part to avoid repricing of interest rate shocks?
Our total investment if you see 90% are in the mutual fund and out of which taxable as well as nontaxable. Tax free, we are invested in the bonds. And for taxable things, we are following that most of our investment are on 3 years FMP tenure. So their capital gain tax benefit also we'll be able to take.
Okay, okay. Okay. So this would continue in the -- to the near future where the longer term or the noncurrent could see further increase also?
Yes, yes. Yes. Definitely.
Okay, okay. So that will avoid the [taxable gain], understood. That is helpful. And Investor Protection Fund, there has been an absolute decline in FY '18 as per notes, is that right understanding on my part?
No, no. Last year, Investor Protection Fund includes -- see, SEBI has come out in 2012, and in 2016, they've come out with the guidelines. So we have transferred whatever funds last year with interest on that. That is around INR 1,60,00,000 [ we have transferred towards interest ]. So because of that difference only...
Particularly the number looks lower this year.
Yes, yes. Otherwise, one-on-one basis, they are same. Every year, we have to transfer after the board approves it, we have to transfer the fund to the trust.
Sure, sure. And sir, earlier you mentioned about you sign in the RTA license, which was just approved by SEBI. So you signed towards more link to BBT and how does that work, if you could give some color? And RTA, how does life change for us and what's the game plan on the RTA side, if you could give some color.
SEBI is looking at distribution of the dividends, et cetera, by the depositories. There's a concept that was already -- I suppose should be there on the SEBI [site,] okay? And there's also thinking that the depositories should be able to do whatever little is being now done by RTAs because the IPO process has become online and substantial work has been shifted online. And what is left now across the world, depositories are doing more and more are for even the RTA process also. So keeping that in view, we thought we should step in and then prepare ourselves to take over that kind of responsibilities to take charge of that responsibility. When it comes to eSign, the account opening, turnaround time has to be reduced substantially. And many of the brokers or DPs are competing with banks and others who have a 3-in-1 account opening portal. So for that, they're -- using the eSign, they're getting all documents signed, okay? And eSign is based on Aadhaar number. Now -- so -- once you fix an Aadhaar eSign, using the onetime password then that can be [ attested ] on only one PDF document, okay? So the more the PDF documents you have to sign, the number of times you need to do that, Aadhaar fetching has increased. So -- but then again, the turnaround time, as I said, substantially reduced from few months to maybe few minutes. And the compliance costs are also reduced because there's no doubt that whether it is signed by client or not signed by client. All that dispute is eliminated and audit trail is so fully established. So it's a very no-nuisance kind of process. That's why we want to step into that as well. And this is not necessarily that we will use that eSign process only for the account opening in here. [ If once I'm in a certifying authority ], this eSign concept can be applied for anywhere, for any document signing, not just account opening with the deposits.
Okay, okay. So tomorrow it could be extended to...
You can sign the bills, you can sign any papers that -- any, any, any piece of paper, any document.
The next question is from the line of Khadija Mantri from IIFL.
I just wanted to know market share with respect to increase in demat accounts, whether it has increased Q-o-Q and Y-o-Y?
Well, I will tell you. Yeah, you can -- year-on-year, it is 64% revenues, 59% last year. We have -- it's about -- 1 minute. Yes, quarter-on-quarter, it's an increase, 60%, 62%, 63%, 65%. This is the way, it has gone up, okay? The average is 63%.
Okay. And this quarter, it was 65%?
Yes. The last quarter, it was 65%.
The next question is from the line of Sanketh Godha from Spark Capital.
I just have a [ couple of ] questions. One was on nondepository solutions are showing good growth, just wanted to know the details how it has -- just more granular details on it. And second was that, how should one look at the impact of Central KYC? And if this happens, is CDSL being paid for uploading the data?
See the CDSL data revenues come from the KRA business that is where the CVL is going. And we have been telling and even in the IPO document also, one of the risk factors is, if CKYC is the only KYC that is to be maintained, then the KRAs have no role to play, then probably this will take a big hit. But then at this point in time, we have been successful in living through this fear. And I'm sure we will continue to, for some more time, that's what my view is because there's a value addition that what we are doing in the KYC arena. There's no in-person verification when it comes to CKYC. And there's also -- the data that is entered is verified by our people in our operations site. They also reject some of the applications where the KYC is done wrongly. So all that value addition is not coming through in the CKYC -- from the CKYC system. So we see that we will continue to do that. When it comes to the upload [ charges ], yes, even we are giving the services to the -- to the intermediaries, where they upload on the KRA and then we will [ massage ] the data and provide the file that is needed to be uploaded on CKYC. And then intermediaries quietly upload that data into that. They don't need to -- there's no extra effort for them to upload that. So that is where we charge a very small price for doing that kind of [ massaging ] the data.
Okay. So the charges would be very low or you can disclose the charges, sir?
Very, very low. The charges for [ massaging ] the data are very low, but then for the KYC creation and then actually doing that on the CVL KRA portal, obviously, they are competitive prices, that's all I can say.
Okay. And just on the initial part of the question, nondepositories have recently shown good growth. So if you can give more details on it, it would be really helpful.
Substantially CVL, 99% CVL, because other businesses are still in the case of [ CIRL ], it has not taken off, as I said that the insurance industry is not as of supporting fully the dematerialization of the policies or they themselves are putting up on their portal the policies. And when it comes to the commodity repository, just started last year and sometime in September. They are still making people, I mean, the stakeholders aware of the benefits of the insurance, the repository, commodity repository. And when it comes to the CVL, that's a well-established platform. And the National Academic Depository, one which we are doing it on the CVL, but the -- say MHRD has mandated that we cannot charge the academic institutions till the September 2019. So we are only bringing them into our fold, but that charge will start only in 2019, September onwards. [So possibly it is].
The next question is from the line of Ayush Khaitan from Prospero Finvest. Apologies, the next question is from the line of Anand Laddha from HDFC Mutual Funds.
Sir, you had 4 major revenue line, annual charges, transaction, IP and online data, all 4 together is INR 160 crores. And our reported top line for the full year is INR 190 crores. So if you can give some color like the balance INR 30 crores are coming from which segment, area, sir?
Yes, yes, 1 minute. See, there are other charges like user facility charges are there, apart from those 5 you have mentioned. User facility charges are there, then settlement charges are there, account maintenance charges are there. e-Voting charges are there.
E-Voting is one another major contributor.
That is INR 4 crores what we have won. eCAS charges are there.
Sorry, sorry?
E-Voting charges, INR 4 crores.
E-Voting. And eCAS, what is that eCAS, sir?
That is consolidated account statement, electronically we are sending and physically also we are sending. You want figures also then we can...
If you can give figure, that will be helpful.
Yes, user facilities charges, INR 3.4 crores.
Okay. This is in FY '18?
FY '18.
Okay.
Then settlement charges, INR 1.6 crores; account maintenance charges, INR 2.88 crores; e-Voting charges, INR 4.1 crores; eCAS charges, INR 6.43 crores; then document storage charges, that is CVL thing that is INR 5.28 crores; eKYC, it will come to INR 2 crores; these are the major.
And sir, what is the growth outlook on all of these charges, sir, if you can -- sir, what is the basis of these charges?
Basis of charges, you will find out everything on our website, it is there.
And sir, what is the growth outlook on this other charges like eCAS, e-Voting?
That -- for e-Voting, there is a -- competitions are there. So it depends on that also. And eCAS charges whenever transactions are there, we have to send to beneficial owner. So this depends on the number of transactions they have done and accordingly we are sending. So growth in all depends on a market order.
The next question is from the line of Harit Shah from Reliance Securities.
Sir, I had a query. Do you have the data for the total beneficial owner accounts gross and net basis at the end of FY '18?
Yes. We are having data of net [BO] accounts. So current year's CDSL [ is 25,72,000 accounts ] were opened against NSDL of 15.11 lakhs.
All right. So this is on a net basis?
All on a net basis.
Yes, it's on net basis.
Sure, sure. Okay. And so around, I think, last year, the total figure was about INR 1.6 crores, I think, the total beneficiaries?
INR 1.7 crores and we are having a INR 1.48 crores.
Right. This is also net, right?
Yes, yes, net only.
Okay, sir. And secondly, any -- I understand, okay, what is the total amount of depository participants right at the end of FY '18?
Yes, we are having 594 depository participants.
Sure. Okay. Just one for any -- sir, what are the reasons for the depreciation charges increasing so substantially and your net assets have been...
Yes, recently, we have bought a new property, office [ premises ] because of all that and furniture and fixes and all.
Right. Sir, that is the way -- that does not -- no additional, nothing apart from that, right, because that was I think part of your CapEx in any case, right? Okay. So I just wanted your clarification on that. Okay. And just one last question, what is the outlook for FY '19 on an overall consolidated level? I mean, obviously, the market will vary based on various factors, but the overall outlook for the rest of the business, if you just give some qualitative understanding.
Well, we don't see any problem in market in what it is today, okay? And maybe the elections and then rain gods may throw some element of uncertainty. But otherwise, economy is doing well. There's no reason why we shouldn't be doing well. As long as there is an opportunity in the economy, as long as the economy does well, company sectors do well, capital market does well, we are going to capture the market so much higher we can -- we're confident about.
All right, sir. Okay. And one last question on my side, what is the CapEx outlook for FY '18 -- sorry FY '19?
It will be around INR 6 crores to INR 7 crores.
The next question is from the line of Pritesh Chheda from Lucky Investment Managers.
Sir, I missed the CDSL Ventures revenue for FY '18 vis-a-vis FY '17. And when you mentioned online data revenue, that -- is that CDSL Ventures revenue or it's a separate number then?
No, no, same thing, CDSL Ventures Limited only.
Okay. So that you mentioned as INR 29 crores versus INR 18 crores last year?
Yes. Okay.
Yes, yes, yes. The operational income CDSL Ventures Limited against FY '17, INR 24 crores, they won INR 37 crores. Out of it, INR 29 crores from online data charges.
Okay, sir. So CDSL Ventures is INR 37 crores versus INR 25 crores. And the difference between stand-alone and consolidated is a function of CDSL Ventures, right?
Yes, yes.
There's no other company or subsidiary?
Operational income side, no. Out of INR 191 crores, INR 154 crores from CDSL and INR 37 crores from CDSL Ventures for operational side.
Okay. Secondly, I just wanted take some update on the GSTN. What is the status there in terms of monetization, track revenue? What is the update on national education record repository?
Yes, on the GST piece, we have -- as CDSL has transferred this license, CVL has -- independently has applied and CVL got it. And we transferred the business from CDSL to CVL, because we have not got the permission from SEBI to continue this business in CDSL. And the projections that, I mean, the kind of outlook that we had for GSTN was very bullish at the time when we launched. But then the number of filings have come down, and we have not seen as much traction as we thought we will get it. So -- but still, we stay [focused] in this business and then see what will happen as the time pass by.
What was the scope of area in this business? You were basically records keeper for...
No, no, we are providing an ASP service as well as we are a GSP. So we have an ASP, what you call, module. If somebody wants to use that ASP module, then they can use it and then they can upload it independently without depending on anyone. And if you have an ASP module and you can connect yourself to GSP and then you upload it. So that's the way it is. And this is on the GSP. And I think I have explained earlier the National Academic Depository, the number of academic institutions that we have onboarded, about 231 have signed up with us and about 47 of them [ letter of intent as it is in the competition ]. And again, this is there on the UGC website. You can see who has done what like, it's a transparent way. And we have also been told, of course, which is part of the agreement, we can't charge the academic institutions till September 2019. So there's no revenue coming at this point in time, but we are engaging with all the academic institutions to register with us, so that we will be able to start having something from September 2019 onwards.
What kind of costs are sitting in the P&L from these 2 business areas?
Less than INR 1 crores, less than INR 1 crores.
The next question is from the line of Parimal Mithani from Credential Investments.
Yes, I just wanted to know in terms of, sir, technology-wise, how -- do we upgrade the entire thing in terms of the SEBI has referenced a lot of new technologies coming and the intermediate is getting out of the chain. Are you -- do you see that will affect your business?
Yes, we don't see any threat to business. We are also upgrading our technology. And [you] people usually ask me about the blockchain and on 2, 3 occasions also I did speak about blockchain. It's not as yet the stable -- it's not a stable technology as yet. And not too many developers are there, not too many applications are also there. Thanks to bitcoin, it has become a popular talking point and flavor of the month. But then otherwise, it's not a mature application as yet. So even if one fine morning blockchain comes, there's hardly anything that they can do. They have to come via the regulatory jurisdictions and systems that are put in place. And it's not just depository alone will do it. Even the depository participants should be compliant with that. And existing depository participants also have to tie up with the new depository even if a new depository comes. They are not going to invest additional money in a new depository. So we are not worried about that one. And whatever changes that take place in the technology front, we will be able to keep pace with that or maybe stay ahead of the technology changes that competition may envisage or that may happen in this market.
The next question is from the line of Abhishek Jain from Vallum Capital.
Sir, then how many insurance companies you have been tied up perpetually for electronic policies? So can you just throw some light on the same? And like, how CDSL has been placed over there?
Yes, one minute. We have about 22 insurance companies who have signed up, life insurance companies and we have 15 nonlife signed up with us. And there are 18 nonlife that are still in discussion, under discussion. There are 2 insurance companies which are again under discussion.
Okay. And how many are there, like which has signed perpetual contracts with you?
There's nothing called perpetual contract or anything. They sign the contract and there's always a termination clause, isn't it? So, this -- all this is not doing, some of them are active, some are not active.
And sir, actually, I earlier asked -- you are saying that 8.1% is the bond deal that you are getting, right, on the bonds?
Return on investments.
Return on investment, 8.18%. Not on bonds. Altogether investment.
Okay. Can you just bifurcate that also per se?
What? Bond, do you want separate and...
Yes. As he said that 90% of our investment is in FMP, okay? So the substantial revenue comes from that, not from the bonds or anything. Tax-free bonds are there. There are few tax-free bonds, but not a very big investment. How much it is? How much is it? Tax-free is 6.85%.
Okay. And sir, can you just throw some light on the warehouse receipts market size in India and positioning of CDSL on the same?
You see, as we have said that we have just started this initiative. I mean, the toll that the banks pledge business at this point in time is about INR 60,000 crores. And that there's this scope for INR 1 lakh crores, but then these are all different people saying this number or the some agency is there and which has put up some report and then based on that, we are -- we are saying this. But then the ecosystem, most important stakeholder is the banks. And the banks are pledging either the commodities in the warehouses and they should make it mandatory for them to pledge via the repository route. So the discussions are on and then they are -- our WDRA itself has engaged with them and hope that they will be seeing merit in doing via the repository route than what it's happening at this point in time.
Okay. And sir, last question from my side is like how you see the progress has been then in this case for demat for all? Sir, your last commentary up on this, like, how far it has been gone, how the -- this negotiation has been like. Hello?
Hello. Sorry, I didn't get your point.
How much progress has been done in the space for this demat for all?
Demat for?
All.
For the single demat account, for all financial assets you are saying that?
Yes, exactly.
No, the regulatory changes are yet to be announced. So once SEBI announces those changes, then the other regulators will start doing the necessary things at their end also. So to begin with, it will have to happen at the SEBI.
We take the last question from the line of Ayush Khaitan from Prospero Finvest.
Sir, question is how many number of companies has shifted from slab basis to folio basis in our annual [issuance] charge? And folio basis generates higher revenues so...
Yes. Out of total revenue of [ issuance ] charges, 17% of the companies will be on a folio basis. It gives me 58% of -- 58% of total income [ issuance ] charges and 83% companies are on a capital base, that is slab basis. It gives me 42% revenue from annual [ issuance ] charges.
I now hand the conference over to Mr. P.S. Reddy for closing comments. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, everyone, for participating in the call, and thank you for your support also. And there is an -- a lot of you are invisible to us but then I'm sure you have taken a keen interest in the company. And we will do our best to stay ahead of competition and then meet the expectations of the -- all the investors. But ultimately, the markets decide what is that we could be at the end of the day. So thank you once again. Stay invested. I'm sure you're in good company. That's all I can say. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you very much. On behalf of Axis Capital Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.