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Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to CarTrade Tech Limited Q4 and FY'23 Earnings Conference Call. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on the beliefs, opinions and expectations of the company as on date of this call. These statements are not the guarantees of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. [Operator Instructions]
Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Vinay Sanghi, Chairman and Managing Director, CarTrade Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you. Good afternoon, everybody, and thank you for joining this quarterly earnings call and also the final -- the year-end financial call as well. First of all, it gives me great pleasure to welcome all of you. And we have also uploaded a presentation and I'll go straight to the presentation to give you some key highlights for the quarter and for the year.
On Slide 3, gives summary of some of the key metrics. It gives me a great pleasure to tell you that we've achieved the highest ever revenue in the year in the quarter and also highest ever adjusted EBITDA in a quarter or in the year. Revenue has grown by 20% for the year, adjusted EBITDA has grown by 28% during the year.
We continue to be India's leading automotive platform. We are almost now 200-plus physical locations in the last year. March '23, we auctioned, 1.1 million vehicles. On our consumer platform, we received INR 34 million -- in the last quarter, we received INR 34 million unique customers every month. I think what, again, is remarkable is that 86% of these came organically, which shows why our margins have stayed strong.
Revenue for the year was at INR 427.7 crores, which is, as I said, a growth of approximately 20%. End of the quarter was INR 116.6 crores, which is also the highest in any quarter. Adjusted EBITDA was INR 124.9 crores for the year and INR 39.8 crores for the quarter, which also is the highest ever. Profit after tax is INR 40.4 crores. Do remember that this also after a deferred tax of approximately INR 11 crores in this PAT. And adjusted PAT adjusted for ESOPs as well as deferred tax is approximately INR 80 crores for the year.
We continue to be a strong business with completely no loans or any kind of debt with a strong cash balance, almost INR 1,100 crores in the company. If I go to the next slide, which is the consolidated financials for the year, which is Slide 4. As you can see here, the revenue for the quarter is INR 116 crores. The revenue for the year -- the net revenue for the year is 421. The net is estimated for some of the transaction business and comes to growth approximately 20%.
Expenses from last quarter to this quarter stayed stable. Adjusted EBITDA has gone up to INR 39.8 crores in the quarter compared to INR 36.6 crores in the previous quarter. And for the year, it's INR 124.9 crores versus INR 97 crores the previous year, which is a growth of approximately 28% during the year. I think the other thing is the adjusted EBITDA margin, as you can see. It is 34% for the quarter. If you remove other income, then the adjusted EBITDA margin comes to 20% during the year hence -- 20% during the quarter and 17% for the year.
The other key highlights in the consolidated accounts are, of course, the adjusted PAT and the PBT, which are below. The adjusted PAT for the quarter is INR 23 crores and INR 80 crores for the year, which is a growth of -- the adjusted PAT has grown about 42%. And then as you can see here, the profit after tax is actually turned profitable during the year at 17.49 for the quarter compared to a loss last year. And the loss last year due to that -- due to a new ESOP entry on an ESOP cost, which was taken in our accounts last year.
If you go to the stand-alone financials for the quarter, which is -- just the standalone accounts, which mainly includes the consumer business or consumer platforms. You can see that the quarters had a INR 58.7 crores in net revenue, which is a growth of 35%. The year revenues are INR 204.94 crores, which is a growth of 38% in a stand-alone. And as you can see, costs remaining stable in the quarter you can -- and then therefore, you've seen a big jump in our adjusted EBITDA for the quarter, almost 101% growth. And this is something we've been talking about in multiple calls over the years that increase in revenue results in a disproportionate increase in EBITDA. As you can see here, 35% growth in revenue in the quarter has led to 101% growth in EBITDA during the quarter.
And in a year, 38% growth in revenue led to a 94% growth in profitability. EBITDA margin is 41% with other income and 19% without other income, which has also grown in the year to 15% versus 5% in the previous year. So most of the numbers in the stand-alone accounts is extremely healthy, and we feel pretty good about the business on the stand-alone consumer business for the last year. If you look at the next slide, which is the remarketing business, we've had headwinds here. In the quarter, there has been a slight growth. And for the year, we've had a slight growth of 6%. EBITDA has also been hit in the year. We are down 13%. And adjusted EBITDA margins are also hit from 24% to 18%, even though Shriram AutoMall continues to have an adjusted EBITDA of INR 15 crores versus INR 12 crores the previous quarter. So there's slight better this quarter than slightly better than the previous quarter.
There have been quite a few headwinds in this business, and we've talked about this in the last 2 quarters where the headwinds are mostly on account of the supply coming from repossessed vehicles, which has seen a little bit of a downturn with markets doing a little better. And the actual -- we've seen a good bit growth in our retail business. In fact, I'll share some of these percentages a little later on supply coming from various sources, but we're still seeing headwinds in the repossession side of this business.and growth on the retail side of the business.
So overall, we have seen headwinds in the entire consolidation of Shriram AutoMall business and we feel that, hopefully, in this year, at a later stage, it will correct itself. If you look at the next slide, which is the organic monthly unique visitors, it's about 34 million in quarter 4 versus 29.8 million in the previous year, same quarter. So we've seen a reasonable growth in our unique visitors per month. As again, I want to stress that this is 86% organic, which is one of the reasons why the consumer business has seen leverage in its adjusted EBITDA going up.
The next slide is really a Google Trends on a popularity around brand affinity, which is really a reflection of our online search popularity. And you can see here, the gaps continue to be there versus our competitors. CarWale index 83 versus 21 being the next and BikeWale is 90 versus 45 in the next. So we've seen strength on online search popularity to continue.
The next slide about auction listings and volumes. And here, you can see the -- for the quarter has been 286,681. For the year, it was 1.1 million. I think listing have been more or less flat and so are the auction volumes, which is a reflection on somewhat financials -- Shriram AutoMall financials by itself. These are high-level metrics. There are some other ratios I'd like to talk through. One is our percentage of used car to new car revenue in the consumer group.
This year, the used car revenue has gone to 16% of our total consumer group revenues, which was 9% last year. So it is 91% new cars last year, which has gone to 84%, 16% used cars this year versus 9% the previous year. I think the other thing we've seen here is the growth rates. The used car business has grown up almost 136%, whereas the new car business is going about 26%, which really makes up the entire growth of the consumer business.
If you look at the OEM dealers [indiscernible] our consumer business, it was 65% OEM and 35% dealer that's become 61% OEM and 39% of the dealer business has got better. And if you look at the Shriram AutoMall some key metrics, which we give out the percentage of repo business has gone from 69% last year to 55%. So we've dropped in the repossession supply in terms of percentage of our total business, and our retail business has gone from 21% to 33%.
So we've seen huge growth in the retail side. And of course, as I've said, we've seen lots of constraints on the repossession business. It's gone from 69% to 55% of our business. These are some high-level metrics of the company. I'm happy to answer questions which you might have and clarifications you might be.
[Operator Instructions] The first comes from the line of Siddhartha Bera from Nomura.
Sir, just first a housekeeping question. This OEM dealer revenue mix or growth, can you share for this quarter how it has been for the stand-alone business?
You want the split?
Yes.
It is for the quarter, it's INR 60 crores to INR 38 crores. I said for the year, it's INR 60 crores to INR 38 crores, so it's not much different. Aneesha, is that correct?
Yes. Financials [indiscernible] In the quarter it is about INR 60 crores to INR 38 crores.
Okay. Okay. And the new avenues will be, new car and used revenue mix?
For the quarter -- it's been similar, 16 84.
Okay. So quarter-on-quarter, not much change...
Not much change.
Okay. And second question on the growth side, I mean, we have shown a good growth momentum in the current quarter. So what is the outlook for the coming years? Given the trends or given the sort of traction you are seeing from the OE or the dealers, what is your expectation for some of this growth momentum? Is it -- I mean will it sustain or normalize or how to look at the next 1 year?
We don't give any guidance, Siddhartha. But we generally think that the -- if you see the OEM -- I mean the car sale -- new car sales in India has grown about 28% this year. I think most predictions are around the fact that it grew 10% in the coming year. We feel pretty good about the business environment in the last quarter. We are just hopeful the same business environment continues for the next 3 months, 6 months, 1 year.
So we feel pretty confident. I can't give a growth number but we feel pretty confident. I just want to stress one more thing that if you look at the high growth area of the company, growth rate in the past 5 years, of the 10 annual report, and you said about 23% and 69% growth in EBITDA over a 5-year period. So we've had a consistent growth and profitability growth track record [indiscernible] We feel pretty good that this year should not be any different. I mean, the market looks fine at this point.
Okay. No, because, I mean, on the new car side, we expect growth to slow down meaningfully this year. It may not be more than 5%, 6% is our view. So on that context, I mean, given that -- I mean, generally, like you have said in the past, in case demand slows down, it leads to more incentives for the OEM to advertise more. So should we expect that for us, growth should continue to remain in healthy double digits is what I was just trying to understand.
Yes. What we said is that when demand -- not demand slows down, but when supply is more than demand, it helps us in what we said, which means that there are shortages in vehicles. And the supply of manufacturers more than demand. It's a more favorable them and vehicles under shortages because naturally, manufacturer and dealers only to advertise. So yes, I think we're moving more towards a market where demand is free supply. But we still want the new industry to grow. I think it's a combination of all of that.
Okay. Got it. And second on the margin side, I mean, obviously, we have continued to demonstrate good margin trends for the last two quarters. So is it something we can expect that with at least a double-digit growth we should sort of continue to build on what we have reported in the last 9 months or...
Absolutely. I think our cost structures and unit economic structures and the way the companies are built is that in revenue growth, you see a more disproportionate growth than EBITDA. And you've seen this demonstrated now across the whole year, 34% net to a 92% growth in profit. So I think that's quite clear that growth revenue leads to a disproportionate growth in EBITDA. So that's -- our basic business model and cost buildup has not changed. And this is typical to businesses like our marketplace business of cars where costs don't increase with proportional to revenues. In fact, we have two principal cost marketing and people. And if you see over 5 years, our marketing costs are flat, over 5 years. And at 34 million customers a month, right? It's still flat over 5 years. So we do feel good about the fact that with the revenue increase and costs don't go up in proportion.
Yes. Because on a quarter-on-quarter, basically, you're marketing costs have gone up. So given that if you're expecting demand to slow down, so shall we expect current trends to sustain? Or I mean there can be upside risk to that [indiscernible]
I think we should assume the same cost structure as we have to...
Okay. And lastly, sir...
There will be some escalation in costs. I think there will be some escalation in costs because as you see in 1st April, you all have an increment cycle. So you will see some escalation in costs because of increments, but that adjusted through the year.
Okay. Sir, on the last year, the upshore side, we have not commented much this time. So just wanted your thoughts on what is happening there?
The auctions had actually -- we've had a tough year, and I think the tough year is...
Sorry, sir. Sorry to interrupt, abSure.
AbSure, sorry, sorry, sorry, my mistake. I heard auction. On the abSure side, actually, we -- this quarter and the last 3 months I have slightly modified it. I think we've got abSure outlets and added another range, what we call signature outlets. And I did not stress, but we are close to about, I think, 90. Aneesha is that correct?
Yes.
As I said, we've added a new dimension here because we want to scale up now. We're quite confident that we've tested the model. I think the whole abSure model is created, so someone can book a car online and other logistics or delivery, et cetera, get certified cars, et cetera, et cetera. And a lot of that has now played out. As you know that we've tried to build a very asset-light model, and we continue in that endeavor. And our objective is to grow the abSure and signature outlets over the next 2 to 3, 4 years now. It's -- as I've also highlighted that our used car business has grown 136%. Part of it is abSure, part of it is just a classified used car business growing itself. But we feel confident and bullish about it. It's a very, very small still part of our entire business. Used car itself is only, as I said, 16%. So it's a small part of the consumer group, but we're feeling confident about it for the future.
We have a next question from the line of Ankit Kanodia from smart sync services.
[Operator Instructions]
First of all, congratulations on a good set of numbers, especially in the consumer side of business. So my first question is related to the main pain point, which I see in your presentation in which you alluded to in your opening commentary also, which is the auction listing volume and particularly the repossessed vehicle. Would you throw some more light there as to what is happening and what can change for the better in the coming time?
I think what we've seen is volume in the possession side slightly degrow. And I think that is [indiscernible] multiple reasons. One is, of course, the fact that the economy has done better. And clearly, people are able to pay loans. So that is one factor where repossession itself has gone down. I think the second factor, which is given is -- and when we talk to our customers, is that resale value used cars or used vehicles is up. And therefore, people will not surrender vehicles, but payoff their loans. So I think these are two big factors we've seen. We're not sure whether it's cyclical and whether this will -- but these are cycles with the repossession industry gone through several times in the past as well. So these are cycles and a cyclical part of the business. I think where we made effort to counter this drop -- and we are 69% repossession of volume. So that's what it's hurt us. I think where we feel good about the businesses we've been not substitute a large part of that with growing fragmented supply retail supply which basically makes us a healthier business for the future because when the reproduction volumes do come back, our retail business would also be a certain strength. And therefore, it enables the company to have a much, much stronger future. So that's the good part, but repossession has been a very tough 6 to 8 months.
That really helps. My second question is, I think we have been discussing this for the last 2 quarters now. So we are around INR 2,000 crores market cap company now, INR 1,100 crores of cash. At the Board level, are we having any discussion on buyback, maybe even a small buyback of INR 100 crores or INR 150 crores, can do our good confidence booster for investing companies. Do we have any discussion on the Board or have we decided...
Yes, we do discuss this from time to time. I think we also discussed the regulation around what quantum we are allowed to buyback and not buyback. And it's still under [ concession ]. I don't think you've come to any conclusion as yet what to do or what not to do.
[Operator Instructions] We have a next question from the line of Raj from [indiscernible] Partners.
Am I audible?
Yes.
So first thing I want to say is for 12 p.m. calls, you are uploading everything at 11:55 a.m. So I think it is a bit unfair for all the investors, I guess, sir.
Yes, sir. I'd like to apologize for that. Sorry for that. We'll make sure that next time we do that earlier.
Yes, please do. Other thing I wanted to ask you, sir, what is there in your other income exactly?
Aneesha, you want to explain?
Sure. Other income maintains treasury income, which is -- because we have large funds, which is about INR 1,100 crores. These are found with highly conservative mutual funds and overnight funds, which is the return, which is classified under the other income.
All right. And how much of interest is being earned on these ones?
Our ballpark is about 6%.
6% in Q1. All right. And also regarding I wanted to ask about adjusted PAT. So what adjustments have you done in it?
Adjusted for deferred tax, which is about INR 11 crores, right, Aneesha? And ESOPs of -- cashless ESOPS is about INR 27 crores. Is that correct?
Yes.
INR 27 crores ESOPs, okay.
Yes. And there's also PAT below, which is approximately INR 40 crores. The adjusted is about 79.
All right. Okay. And also for FY'24, can you give a rough outlook on the operations of the company? Like how do you see going ahead?
We don't give a guidance, but what I can say is that we feel pretty good about the state of the business and the state of the market on the consumer group, which is the new -- used car consumer platforms. In the near future, it seems that the repossession industry will still continue to go through what has gone in the last 6 to 8 months. But there, again, we're making lots of efforts to get supply from other sources. So we can continue to grow at Shriram AutoMall as well. We feel pretty confident about the business and as many reasons why. I think one is really the traffic of consumers on our platform and really the leadership we have on our first popularity and marketing costs related to that. On the consumer side of the business, the traction of used car is growing, which we see a very strong positive for our business. And really, on the Shriram AutoMall, as I said, we've established a new vertical of retail segment and retail supply. So we feel quite confident about the business. There are some headwinds on the repossession side, which continue to be there. But on the whole, we've seen very, very -- reasonably confident about the business.
[Operator Instructions] We have a next question from the line of Sachin Dixit from JM Financial.
Congratulations on a great set of results. So I wanted to talk regarding the OEM advertising spend, right? So I believe sales COVID the demand-supply mismatch has resulted in ad spend going down as percentage of revenue for these OEMs. What do you think is the trajectory on this? How long does it take to lever? Do you see this happening in a year, 2, 3 years? How do you see it?
It seems positive because the demand supply position has actually changed in the last 6 to 8 months. So just to give you a context, OEM business grew by 29% for us this year. Am I right, Aneesha? This 29%?
Yes.
So we feel pretty good about it. The markets are changing. OEM are starting to spend more money than they did. Digital emphasis is increasing. In fact, the year before that it was a tough year because really supply was not available and OEMs chose to cut -- not cut but hold advertising. But not lot of has bounced back in the last year, which you can see in our results as well. At this stage, actually, the market is reasonably favorable. It's very similar to what we should be. There is demand -- there is in many -- in a couple of manufacturers, demand is much more than supply, but generally across the board, supply seems to be getting better.
Understood. And my second question related to the first one itself. So when OEMs are shifting to more of the ad spend digitally, a lot of the spend is, I think, happening also on video and other such formats, which I don't think CarTrade as of now. So how are you trying to get that wallet share [indiscernible]
We're a different segment, right? So you're right. I think out of our total digital spend manufacturers spend on OTT platforms and even horizontals. We are really a verticalized business for them, which gives them the lowest cost of customer acquisition. So I think the reason CarWale is compelling to manufacture is just because it's the lowest cost of customer acquisition from them with only 34 million customers coming on most people buying a new car coming to our platform. This is the single biggest destination for accessing customers. And as I told you, as they have more and more supply and demand grows -- is lower than supply, they meet these customers to increase their sales. So we are more, as I said, a verticalized business with a very focused set of customers for them. And in many cases, the lowest cost of acquisition for them for the customer. And that's where we make our own space in this whole digital advertising space. So if they put on -- I don't know OTT platform, it's a very generic customer who's seen the ad. And therefore, the cost advertising is much higher for them versus putting up ads or partnering with CarWale.
Sure. Just one clarification on this one. Do you see the vertical versus horizontal shift in the OEM advertising spend? Or is it roughly been stable?
We have stayed this way. Both have their own purpose. Horizontals gives them a different kind of reach and brand capability. Verticalize gives them an immediate customer with the lowest customer acquisition. So it will probably continue as it is. What we try to do as a company is try and go deeper and deeper in our offers to manufacturers. So that we obviously relevant to the manufacturer. So the deep integration, even now within multiple integrations with multiple manufacturers. So that their offering becomes stronger for the customer. And that's where we invest all our product and technology today, so that we stay relevant versus horizontals. I think that's the...
[Operator Instructions] We have a next question from the line of Vijit Jain from Citi.
My first question is on the stand-alone business. So you share the traffic trends on a quarterly basis. Are there any other metrics of traffic engagement that you can share in terms of, say, user-generated content like rating reviews uploaded every quarter or time spent, whatever makes sense? Is that possible to do?
We can then share it to you. I don't have it right now, but we can then share with you, but these are also publicly available on many competitive platforms, but we do look at things like time [indiscernible] bounce rates, page views and things like that, which are clearly best-in-class even when you look at those numbers. But we do tend to look at it. I don't have it right now, but -- maybe we can then share that with you in comparison possibility to us -- with us.
Got it. And then just related to that, is user-generated content of the websites something you think is important and relevant to the business in the way you do it? And do you track that? Because it is those things, right, whether people are uploading their own reviews and stuff could be indication of how copyright content for your rather proprietary content for you?
User-gen content is important, but it's not the primary content or the most visible content on our website. I think what we -- what tends to be competitive shopping, comparing one car with the other car. BUt people come for many reasons and one of the big reasons that known to us is to understand what car to buy. And that partly comes from user content, but lots of it comes from understanding expert opinion, understanding competitive features, understanding maybe a video or 360 or different view of the vehicle, to finding a dealer to buy from, what price to pay, et cetera, et cetera. So there is a lot of usage on content, it's not the primary reason in India, why they come to us.
Got it. And my second question, Vinay, is on the remarketing business. So I think I believe in the last call also, you mentioned and you've said a couple of times now that the repo market is going through a tough time. The consumer market and the remarketing business is doing well. When I look at those metrics you shared, right, it looks like likely the repo business is kind of flattish Q-o-Q and the retail business continues to do well. So I mean, just based on those numbers, right, 69% of the business last year versus 55% this year, 53% previous quarter. It looks like you're now at around INR 29 crores, INR 30 crores. In repo and retail is around INR 24 crores, INR 25 crores. So I'm just wondering if, on an absolute basis, has repo bottomed out in your view? Because this used to be around INR 39 crores, INR 40 crores.
It seems to have bottomed out, yes, if that's the question. It seems to be. I think it's quite -- last quarter, although it's pretty much similar for the last 2 quarters, but it seems to be bottomed out.
And in terms of margins, just on a sequential basis, obviously, in this business, while absolute revenues is kind of flattish Q-o-Q margins have improved. Is that also a function of the mix?
Yes. Yes, retail by definition -- yes, retail by definition is a little higher margin for us. So if you can build -- I think there are two things in retail. One is if we can build retail segmented supplies, we call it. One is margin is slightly better, but also our ability to differentiate, right, from all -- any kind of competition might come in the future is very high because then you have a high level of fragmented supply, it's very hard for people to replicate, right? So there are two advantages on that. One is the immediate margin, but because thing is the ability to defend and create more [indiscernible] our business, which will be impossible for someone to break through a little later.
Got it. And Vinay, just to understand this right, the retail is essentially to C2B2B for you, right? You're buying from...
It could be C2B2B. It could C2B. It could be customers coming to us. It could be customers coming through a very small broker or maybe [indiscernible] both ways. Very fragmented, very small middlemen brokers. They're not bulk. It's not [indiscernible] I mean very insignificant in terms of per person volume.
We have a next question from the line of Sanjay Parekh from Soham Asset Managers.
So my question to Vinay is that today on stand-alone, let's say, we're doing INR 156 crores turnover and the core operating profit, which is excluding other income, is INR 23 crores. So just in 3 years from now -- I mean, for our leadership that we have, clearly, which is showing up in our rating and viewership -- I mean the downloads. This seems to be quite low in terms of the overall pie, which is largely advertising and referral from dealers. So 3 years from now -- the question is that 3 years from now, can we grow at 25%? And if yes, then should this operating leverage kick in, in terms of more like 25% margin in 3 years from now? I mean, I'm not trying to get a number. I'm just trying to get your vision for 3 years for this company on stand-alone, first.
Is the question the 25% on top line? Is that the question?
Yes. So the first is the top line, 25% growth because the pie looks quite small for the leadership we have and the opportunity that I'm trying to understand. The second is that if 25% growth were to come through, we've done 19% core profit, operating profit margin in the fourth quarter. So should this be around 25% in 3 years from now?
Right. I think it's a good question. The one thing I want to highlight here is that about 13%, 14% of money spent by new manufacturers and dealers and advertising is on digital. In lota of -- most countries, it's about 40%. So one can see that manufacturing dealers. moneys in the next 3, 4 years or 5 years, going on 13%, 14% or maybe 20%, 25% or 30%. So that's one factor of growth for us. As I told you, the last 5 years CAGR of our entire business is about 23% and a 69% growth in EBITDA. So we definitely feel that if we are able to grow as a number you've given a 25% or 30% or 20%, the EBITDA will grow at a higher margin -- at a higher [indiscernible] and the margins should improve. As we've demonstrated last year as well, coming to 19%. I think the same question was asked last year. And we feel that any kind of revenue growth from here leads to increase in margins. There may be odd years where the reamin part costs go up a little higher. But generally, we feel pretty confident that revenue growth increases the margins.
That is very helpful. The second question is on the stand-alone while there's a cyclical weakness currently. But again, the same question here, I mean, our attributable EBITDA is 50%. And I think roughly, if I remove other income, we are at a INR 50 crores -- INR 45 crores EBITDA. So we, as economic interest get 50%, so that's INR 25 crores. So 3 years down the line, again, for the same question here, it will certainly not grow at that rate. But do you see when the cyclical part is over, this should be more like 10% to 15% top line and then again, we get an operating leverage? Or what would be your [indiscernible]
Yes, I think I tend to agree that as we build out other verticals, one is we're hoping to repossess market, and that [indiscernible] it is cyclical. So 3 to 6 months later should come back. And second, if you can build other verticals like retail, which have higher margins also are more defensible. We should see a reasonable growth in this business. And as well as -- this is, again, a very similar business where it's a marketplace. We don't take commissions on vehicles. It's an asset-light business. So as we see volumes go up, our revenues go up. We clearly have a differentiated margin structure here as well. So I think it's pretty similar. Thy are both marketplaces, one is C2B2B marketplace and one is a B2C marketplace. But the nature of the business are quite similar.
Sure, sure. Very, very helpful. The last is, I mean, clearly, we understand you're conservative and it's a very good virtue as a management. So we have INR 1,100 crores cash now. So in terms of how do you think about activations? And in terms of -- clearly, the payback period a little bit of your understanding of what are the areas, if at all, you're thinking would help?
So the way we think about any investment or acquisition or users money is that it's really got to be a business which is going to help our current set of users or there's going to be a business where our current product and technology can be used to a new set of users or consumers. But the intent here is, of course, to look at businesses which are synergistic to our current businesses. Obviously a threshold for us to do this is high because we like to see that when you look at the investment acquisition, there's the management team, which we are investing behind or the business model or the scale of that business is on a certain level. And I think we've, in the past, done three such acquisitions. All three have been successful, in fact, Shriram AutoMall, CarWale both acquisitions and they have all been successful. And therefore, you're right, the threshold is higher because you want to make sure we get it right. We are not a company, which is, in the past, done 10s and 20s or 30s of investments and acquisitions. And so we are prudent about it. We'd like to have a proper thorough look at what we are doing. And if you find something or [indiscernible] higher size of acquisitions, we are not afraid, which always we are convinced that we can make it work.
We have our next question from the line of Pramod Amthe from [indiscernible] Capital.
A couple of questions. One, what's your recent experience in terms of availability of used cars? Has it improved? And what's the outlook for the same next year? And second relevant to the same is what has been the inflationary price trends for used car? And how do you expect that to behave going forward?
Yes. We've actually seen suppliers -- actually used car got -- actually really hard just post-COVID, but in the last 6 months, we've seen supply get better. And that comes from, as I said, at that point of time that a new car supply improves, people tend to sell their old car and buy new car. It's very hard to sell a old car when the new cars are not available because you need to replace it. So as a new car availability has gone up and delivery have increased and new car market, as you can see, has grown by 28%, used car supply has got better. So I think that's one big trend, which is good for the used car industry. The other thing, of course, we've seen not only in used cars, but also new cars. The trend you may be seeing as well is that the average ticket size or customer preference or behavioral to buy has changed, which means that, today, if someone is buying a new car, they tend to now buy the highest variant of the same type, which is a very different behavior to which was there maybe 3, 4 or 5 years ago. So the average ticket size is for most car manufacturer itself has gone up. And as a result, you're seeing, even in the used car market, the average ticket size going up. So we've seen inflationary trends where the used car -- average ticket size of price has gone up, number one. And that's similar in the new car industry as well. So these are all good things for the car industry, when you have average prices of new cars and used cars going up because people are making new choices on model, make, variant and supplies increasing used car market [indiscernible] the new car market. So these are just basically favorable trends for the entire car industry in the last year or so.
Do you compare on a like-to-like feature? How have the used car prices going up? What's the trend there? I understand people are upgrading.
We do actually on our website, look at the average listing price today versus what it was 2 years ago or 1 year ago, 3 years ago, we have that data. And also, we look at our abSure outlets, the average selling price today, this is what might be some time ago. So we tend to compare this just to know what's happening in the car industry. And of course, we've got relevant data available.
And second question -- the third one is related to the competitive intensity. Do you see that easing already considering the funding challenges which we see in global markets and that [indiscernible] down? And as a result of which, which will also may get reflected to you in terms of reduced competition to procure these used cars.
So we are a marketplace and all includes the marketplace. We, of course, as we now are profitable and generating cash and some of the other players in the industry are losing money or losing cash. We actually are not -- we are not a business which buys cars or takes position on vehicles, et cetera, et cetera. Many of the other players [indiscernible] completion actually buy cars, refurbish them and sell them. So they're almost like online dealers. Some of them are even our customers because we don't see any conflict in them putting vehicles in our marketplace to sell. So we almost with some people who are terming as competition, they are actually now more customers to us than competition. I think let's put it this way. So for us, we've tried to keep a very inclusive marketplace where everyone can play a part, whether you're a bank you can sell loans, whether you are dealer you can sell vehicles. You're a manufacturer, you can sell vehicles or if you're one of these online dealers, you can also sell vehicles on our platform.
[Operator Instructions] We have a next question from the line of [indiscernible] from [indiscernible].
Is it better?
Yes.
So I just have one sort of question, so both on BikeWale and CarWale, right? So we see these nonautomotive advertisements as well -- so I mean, do you have -- so first question is sort of, like you mentioned, right, these websites are very vertical specific, and it makes a lot of sense for automotive guys to target on these websites, right? So one -- first question is really that why are there sort of nonautomotive advertisers? And second, sort of if you can provide us mix of auto versus nonautomotive revenue from these two sets?
Sorry, I didn't get nonautomotive automotive on which website?
So both on CarWale and BikeWale, right, we see these -- I mean on your website, there also seems to be nonautomotive advertisements...
The nonautomotive is very insignificant, their number has been very insignificant. I think what happens is when you mostly advertising automotive, which are the manufacturers and agencies, et cetera, and dealers, sometimes you have free space on a website. So you use a program, which allows you to fill it up, it's like a fill rate. But the quantum of revenue generator is very insignificant from nonautomotive. I mean, I would think -- I don't know in terms of a total company that they like not even 1% of revenue.
Got it. Got it. And if you could sort of...
[ It's just a filler ] because you want to give ad space free. So it's just -- there are various programs which allow you to take ads more of nonautomotive.
So it's not a function of getting more -- less traction from the automotive. It's just -- it's more of just filling ad space. Is that correct?
Yes, it's filling ad -- it's not -- as I said, less than a percent. It's not significant and not something we focus on.
Right. And sort of given last year, both -- and from what we understand from the digital ad market, so sort of how are your conversations on pricing been in the first year? And how do you see it going forward?
For us, it's been a lot about working manufacturers and dealers. Pricing has been stable. It's not gone up, it's not gone down. I think, for us, it's also about getting more budgets and providing more value. And I don't see us increasing or decreasing prices. I think there may be some gradual inflation increase, but not dramatic increase in prices or decrease.
We have our next question from the line of Rakesh Jain from Axis Capital. Mr. Jain, we are unable to hear you. Your voice is breaking.
Just one question on booking side. The other expenses have seen a jump from last 2 to 3 quarters, right? Any particular reason? Or are there any one-offs being recorded?
Aneesha -- on the consolidated, Aneesha, you want to answer that?
Sure. The last quarter was INR 24 crores, which has gone up to INR 25 crores Is that the number you're looking?
So INR 3.2 crores is the number I'm looking.
Other expense, Aneesha.
I'm sorry, we couldn't understand that. Can you repeat?
I was telling the other expense. Rakesh [indiscernible] the first quarter into December and quarter end in March [indiscernible] the consolidated levels was 24 [indiscernible] last quarter and has gone up INR 25 crores. Is that the number you're looking at?
4.19 become 25.34.
No. I'm looking at INR 3.2 crores versus INR 3 crores last quarter. There's an adjustment to that.
Sorry, can we come back to the side because I think you've [indiscernible]
The consol level -- your consol level other expenses is INR 3.2 crores at March quarter, and it was INR 3 crores last quarter.
No. I think you're looking at the wrong slide or...
No, I'm looking at the press release -- quarterly press release.
So maybe just quickly have a look at that, please, and I'll come back to you.
Sure. Sure. Sir, and just one more thing. You mentioned that there's a one-off -- on the one-off its you're mentioning the ESOP expense of INR 27 crores. [indiscernible]
In this quarter, it was about INR 7.3 crores. For the year, it was about INR 27.9 crores.
We have a next question from the line of [indiscernible] from ADD Capital.
I have two set of questions. Vinay, in the prior calls, you have been talking of -- there will be a couple of new revenue drivers or segments that will also kick in revenues for some period of time. That is you're talking of insurance revenue, insurance commission revenue or loan disbursement of [indiscernible] or maybe a transaction-based revenue with a car dealer. So when do you expect such revenues to kick in? And what would be the margins for this kind of segment, that is one.
What you said -- shall I answer this?
Yes, please.
So what we've discussed and what we've said earlier is mostly today, people like all of us come to CarWale to find a car, select a car, find out a dealer to buy, what price to pay, compare cars, et cetera, et cetera. And you monetize manufacturers and dealers for advertising revenues. I think what we said in the future is building technology and products for our platform as well as manufacturers for getting to a more purchase online methodology. It basically means can you get a loan approved online instantly? Can you book your car online? Can you -- and that's where the whole CarWale, abSure, Signature movement came around. So the intent is to get closer to the transaction. We can book online, book a loan online or maybe even buying insurance policy online, et cetera, et cetera. This is not a place where -- there's not a thing which you can do at one point of time, there's a journey. It may take 2, 3, 4 years, and that's where we are investing all our future product and tech in. So I think our point was that as we go on, today, you can find a car on CarWale or select a car on CarWale. Tomorrow, you'll be able to buy a loan on CarWale. Day after tomorrow, you will be able to sell your old car, instantly at CarWale. And the day after that may buy an insurance policy [indiscernible]. So this is all work in progress. Over the next, I would say, 2, 3, 4, 5 years, this is really where we'll have additional sources of monetization. A lot of -- like the loans are already online. If you come to CarWale today and get instant approval for a new car or used car already, right? So there various elements are being built as we go on. It's not significant today, the revenue. It will take some time for it to become significant, maybe 2, 3 years, while our digital advertising revenue continues to grow. There is some additional sources in the future.
Okay. So let's assume you would be having, let's say, INR 100 of incremental revenues from all the sources on the stand-alone business. And you've given most of the cost is fixed linked to inflation. What kind of incremental EBITDA margin that we should be looking at over the next 2, 3, 5 years?
The incremental EBITDA, as we discussed earlier, would mostly come from our advertising revenue growth because of the leverage we have, right? This would -- yes, the cost, again, this would be mostly product development costs and technology costs because the customer acquisition is really the same. So it's hard to say at this point to give a guidance around what incremental margins or EBITDA margin will come from this. But clearly, it's an investment we are making already. If you see our financial, these investments are already being made. In fact, there's an operating costs, these technology and product investments, and we continue to do that to invest in it. So we do see margin increasing as these revenues kick in. I can't exactly quantify the amount of margin increase. But yes, there is very little costs against some of these future revenue streams.
Mr. Sanghi, does that answer your question?
I think we lost him.
I would just want to go back to Rakesh's question. I even went through the press release. There is -- these numbers are not really there, Rakesh. Would you please help me and understand which -- what numbers are you referring to?
Do you want me to unmute him?
Yes.
Mr. Jain?
So maybe I'll get back to you with -- maybe you can connect afterwards.
We have a question from the line of [indiscernible] from Money Life Advisory Services.
My question pertains to, we had announced setting up of CarTrade ventures. So I just wanted to understand our thinking behind this and the kind of corporate structure that we are looking for this. So are we -- would this be like an in-house VC fund? Or what exactly would be the structure for this?
One of the things we've always talked about is that we would like to invest or acquire companies in our automotive ecosystem. We have 35 -- 34 million customers a month coming. And today, they can come and find a new car or used car. Tomorrow, we like [indiscernible] a loan or an insurance policy or service a vehicle or sell the old car or other things in the automotive ecosystem, right, from automotive software et cetera, et cetera. So what we've done is really formed a team, which is really looking at augmenting our current products and services with investments and acquisitions. And I think the [indiscernible] ventures was formed for that. And the intent is to use over a period of time our generated earnings, our cash earnings every year. And some, of course, are retained earnings and look at whether we can add additional products and services to these set of customers or if you can buy technology with our current customers can use. And I think the intent here is that can we incrementally grow faster inorganically apart from the growth rates you're seeing organically in our business? I think the one good thing we feel about our business is compared to all the other Internet automotive Internet companies and other in the Internet space itself, both our businesses are cash profitable and generate cash and are pretty stable over a 5-year period. So we feel good that can we add more products and services to these sets of users. Or can we bring new products and services to our users -- I mean -- or buy new technologies as well. So the intent of CarTrade Ventures is that, as I said, we will keep looking at transactions and investments in the automotive ecosystem and see something comes around.
I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Vinay Sanghi for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Thank you. Everyone, just want to thank all of you for joining this call. It's been an eventful year for us. One of our businesses -- the consumer group has done well and the other one is [indiscernible] headwind. But overall, we've had this highest ever revenue and highest ever profitability EBITDA as well as PBT. Again, thank all of you and look forward to interacting with you in the future. Thank you, everybody. Thank you.
On behalf of CarTrade Tech Limited, we conclude this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.