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BSE Ltd
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Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to BSE's Q2 FY '19 Earnings Conference Call. My name is Basu, and I will be the moderator for today's conference. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded today. I'll now hand the conference over to Mr. Yatin Padia, the Chief Investor Relation Officer, BSE Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Hello, everyone, and welcome to BSE's earning call to discuss the Q2 FY '19 results. This is Yatin, the Chief Investor Relation Officer. Joining us today on this earning call is BSE's leadership team consisting of Mr. Ashish Kumar Chauhan, Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer; Mr. Nayan Mehta, Chief Financial Officer; Mr. Neeraj Kulshrestha, Chief of Business Operation. Do note that the conference is being recorded, and a transcript of the same will be available on our website. The financial results and the investor presentation are also available on our website.I would now request Mr. Ashish Kumar Chauhan to give a brief overview of the company's performance followed by Q&A session. BSE does not provide any specific revenue or earnings guidance. Anything said on the call will be -- which reflects BSE's outlook for future or which could be construed as a forward-looking statement must be reviewed in conjunction with the risk the company faces.With that, I will turn -- I would like to turn the call to Ashish -- over to Ashish Kumar Chauhan.
Thank you, Yatin. Good morning, good afternoon and good evening to all of you wherever you are. We are happy to inform you that BSE became the first universal exchange in India on October 1, 2018, with the successful launch of Commodity Derivatives Segment with the launch of gold and silver futures. This will become the first exchange -- the operating platform for trade invest across all asset categories. Further details of provide platform for aggregation and distribution of financial products, making it a one-stop destination for all investments requirements. I'll now update you on the recent business developments in various segments. As mentioned, BSE has successfully launched Commodity Derivatives Segment with the launch of gold and silver futures on October 1, 2018. Thereafter, BSE launched contracts in Oman Crude Oil futures on 26 October. BSE also recently assumed market regulatory status approval to launch corporate derivative contracts, which was launched today. Contracts start -- will be on first day of contract launch, and the final day will be the last day of the contract experiments. Accordingly, trading on this contracts have been launched as I say. Over the past 1 year, BSE has tied up with various associations in the commodities business for growth of development and Commodity Derivatives business in India. Entities with whom BSE has tied up includes renowned entities including [indiscernible] Indian Export Organization, London Metal Exchange, Bombay Metal Exchange, Cotton Association of India, Federation of Spices Stakeholders, Gems Jewellery Council, Bullion Federation, et cetera. BSE recently went into an agreement with Dubai Mercantile Exchange, a premium energy-focused commodity exchange in the Middle East, with the broad and systemic development of Commodity Derivatives in the crude oil complex. BSE registered 145 trading members and 27 clearing members in the Commodity Derivatives segment. Many more members are at the various stages of admission to membership. BSE's announcement to waive transaction charges are reflected a lot by the [indiscernible], including all types of brokers and traders who are cost sensitive due to that nature of business. Commodities revenues selling platform, which we're just trading in gold and silver contracts. It reached all-time peak. The traded volume logging INR 621 crore on Thursday, 25th October 2018. The gold contract recorded trade volume of 1,715 lots with earning of INR 548 crore, and the silver contract logged a traded volume of 629 lots with a value of INR 73 crore. BSE's share of average daily turnover in this segment as of 30th October stands at 86% vis-a-vis another universal exchange. In StAR MF. StAR MF is BSE's flagship product for our mutual fund distribution. India's largest mutual fund distribution infrastructure now continues to grow at a base case. We are delighted to inform you that BSE StAR MF distribution reach in network has grown over 15,000 registered distributors and over 2 lakh indirect plus direct put together distributors considering their employees and business associates of registered distributors, including stockbrokers on its network spread over 3,000 towns across India, processing over 31 lakh transactions per month equivalent to 19% of our annual transactions for a value of 2017-'18. Business, however, set an all-time high record of 31.66 lakh transactions in the month of September 2018, witnessing a 10% month-on-month growth. On 10th September 2018, BSE StAR processed on the record of nearly 6 lakh transactions in a single day. The number of registered mutual fund distributors increased to 16,221 as of October 31, 2018. Total number of S&P registered under this segment increased by 68% to 2,93,827 for the half year ended September 30, 2018, from 1,74,870 for the half year ended September 30, 2017. The total number of XSIPs registered under this segment increased by 162%, 8,21,309 for the half year ended 30th September from 3,13,824 for the half year ended 30th September 2017. The total number of orders processed in Mutual Fund segment increased by 148% to 156 lakhs for the half year ended 30th September 2018 from 63 lakhs for the half year ended 30th September 2017. The total value of orders processed in the Mutual Fund segment increased by 58% to INR 75,283 crore for the half year ended 30th September 2018 from INR 47,669 crore for the half year ended 30th September 2017. The BSE StAR MF exchange infrastructure is predominantly catering to retail category of mutual fund industry. We're delighted to inform that BSE StAR MF distribution reach and network has gone over 15,000 registered distributors. BSE successfully [indiscernible] redefining the mutual fund distribution in India. BSE StAR MF is the most neutral infrastructure for all stakeholders in mutual fund distribution ecosystem, be it investors, distributors, AMCs, RTAs, et cetera, without any conflict of interest. BSE StAR MF encourages members to raise their maximum SIPs during the [ March sit rate ] from 10th September 2018 to 15th September 2018, which has yield additional 53,447 usage of mutual fund [indiscernible] each time. BSE launched a platform for Electronic Book Mechanism for bonds called BSE BOND for issuance of debt securities on private placement basis about INR 3,500 crore on July 1, 2016. So we devised operational limit downward. To-date, issuances [indiscernible] INR 200 crore with effect on 1st April 2018. Issues in this segment include renowned corporates from public as well as private sector in India. During the half year ended 30 September 2018, amount raised on BSE BOND platform was 1 lakh, 233 crore rupees as compared to INR 92,388 crore for the corresponding period in the previous year. BSE continues to remain market leader by a large margin in their business. BSE SME platform has seen 274 company listing on its platform [ errand date ] as compared to 258 companies listed on September 30, 2017, and 190 -- 2018 and 198 companies listed on 30th September 2017. The total number of companies, the strong BSE platform 53 companies migrated to the main board as of September 30, 2018. 38 companies [indiscernible] from this platform during the half year ended 30 September 2018. BSE's market share in this SME segment is also more than 60%, and BSE's leader in this segment. Our BSE average daily turnover in Currency Derivative segment has increased by 90% to INR 32,668 crore for the half year ended 30th September 2018 from INR 17,207 crore for the half year ended 30th September 2017. The total contract trade has grown by 79% to 58.12 crore contracts for the year ended 30th September 2018 as compared to [indiscernible] contracts for the half year ended 30th September 2017. The growth has been aided by increase in turnover in both currency futures as well as option segment. The average daily turnover in currency options segment increased by 87%. And BSE's market share in this segment as of 30th September amongst 3 exchanges now around 49%-plus. In the international exchange, which is a wholly owned subsidiary of BSE, continues to expand its footprint through various listings, product offerings and growth of turnover. Average daily turnover in India International Exchange grew by 1,387% to USD 630 million for the half year ended 30th September 2018 from USD 42 million for the half year ended 30th September 2017. The turnover comprises of significant contribution by Equity Derivative segment as well as Commodity Derivatives segments. On many days, India INX is larger than Dubai Gold commodity exchange interest bonds. India INX achieved a major milestone 25th September 2018 when the daily trading turnover of its Derivatives segment crossed USD 1.7 billion. Its market share in this segment for half year ended 30th September is 68% BSE. India INX is now the market leader in this segment also. India International Clearing Corporation, the clearing arm of India INX, has announced the acceptance of AAA-rated international sovereign securities as collateral from its clearing members and custodians. India ICC is the first and only clearing corporation in GIFT [indiscernible] IFSC to offer this. The acceptance of international sovereign securities of India ICC will benefit foreign investors looking to trade on India INX and make GIFT IFSC more attractive destination for international investors.For segregated nominee account providers and their end clients, this is welcome and will allow them to now start to trade directly at IFSC by offering their international sovereign security holdings as margins. Investors will have the option to place these international securities directly through International Securities -- International Central [indiscernible] Depositories like Clearstream, et cetera. India INX has announced launch of India INX Global Access Limited, a single centralized platform through which hedgers, traders and investors can access international exchange from GIFT IFSC. Global Access, a wholly owned subsidiary of India INX, is the first of its kind platform for India and IFSC at GIFT City, which will offer access to derivatives and investment products traded on international exchanges. India INX Global Access has already established necessary connectivity with CME Group of exchanges, namely CME, CBOT, COMEX, NYMEX currently. India INX Global Access aims to become the leading financial services provider in IFSC GIFT City in the years ahead by facilitating a centralized access to international financial markets for its customers. For participants at GIFT IFSC, Global Access will provide a unified single-window interface for trading on CME Group of exchanges with immediate effect. For members and clients of India INX, Global Access offers a competitive and sustainable value proposition for global markets in a cost-efficient way. In the equity care segment, BSE has changed the basis of transaction charges from trade count basis to incremental turnover basis in the Group A, Group B and certain other groups of security transaction 1st July 2018 based on market feedback. With respect to this team of securities, the number of companies direct capital and BSE are available for trade at 4 1 2 1 add-on date. BSE has the highest number of companies listed on any exchange around the globe. Market level capitalization on these companies is about INR 138 lakh crore as of date. [indiscernible] registered on BSE has stayed 4.10 crore. BSE Investments Ltd is a 100% subsidiary of BSE. It acquired 24% stake in CDSL Commodity Depositary recently. BSE believes in creation of market infrastructure institutions for development of various markets. CCRL will enable electronic accounting of commodities, thereby ensuring of ease-of-use and accuracy and lower costs for document transmission. Commodity repository also provide the legal and regulatory environment for inventory financing and warehouse lending. As per SEBI regulations, BSE cannot take direct stake in unrelated business and the stake being taken through its subsidiary, BSE Investments LtdBSE in partnership with Microsoft and Shephertz launched Ask Motabhai, an artificial intelligence chatbot provide an on-demand data and information from the stock exchange website. BSE makes available on its website information on stock price, corporate results and announcements [indiscernible] over 5,000 entities listed on the exchange. In order to make it [indiscernible] for investors, especially small retail investors to get stock and market information. Recently, BSE has launched Google Assistant service to make BSE market data accessible to investors. Leading exchange believes that voice command is a key interface of future for which it has kickstarted its services in English first and plans to extend further in the general languages in the near future. BSE data content like indices, stock prices, corporate announcement, board meetings, corporate [indiscernible] is now available through voice command on Google Assistant. On the financial updates, the stand-alone total revenue for Q2 FY '19 is higher by 4% to INR 152 crore as compared to INR 146 crore in Q1 FY '19. The profit for the Q2 FY '19 is higher by 2% to INR 52 crore compared to INR 52 crore in Q1 FY '19. During the quarter ended 30th September, the investment income has increased by INR 10 crore, and other income has increased by -- decreased by INR 3 crore as compared to previous quarter. Further, during the quarter ended 30th September 2018, total expenditures increased by 8 crore over previous quarter mainly due to provision for diminishing value of investment made in [indiscernible] group secured nonconvertible debenture protection of INR 3.4 crore. And increasing technology-related expenses by 2 crore during the quarter ended 30th September 2018 is now INR 5 crore, and so it's been booked [indiscernible] exceptional income. This amount [indiscernible] same profits of BSE's stake offer in CDSL IPO, which are retained by CDSL toward IT expenses and now distributed for [indiscernible]. On a consolidated basis, the total revenue of Q2 FY '19 is flat at INR 164 crore as compared to Q1 in FY '19. Profit for Q2 FY '19 is lower by 11% to INR 46 crore as compared to INR 52 crore in Q1 FY '19. During the quarter ended 30th September 2018, investment income has increased by INR 3 crore, and other income has decreased by INR 3 crore as compared to previous quarter. Further, during the quarter ended 30th September 2018, total expenses incurred by INR 8 crore over previous quarter mainly due to provision for diminution in earlier investments made in [ IFLS ] Group. Secured nonconvertible debentures [indiscernible] INR 3.4 crore, incremental contribution to investor services fund expenses by INR 2 crore and including technology-related expenses by INR 1 crore as compared to the previous quarter. During the quarter ended 30th September 2018, a sum of INR 5 crore [indiscernible] on the sale of business stake in CDSL mentioned earlier has been booked as income from discontinued operations. As of 30th September 2018, the total variance lying in settlement guarantee fund maintained by our clearing co-operation is INR 374 crore. With this overview, let me welcome you once again and invite all of you for the question and answer. Thank you.
[Operator Instructions] First question comes from Mr. [ Sandish ].
So I have one question. Which subsidiaries are making operating loss and when do you reach breakeven?
Which one?
Which subsidiaries are making operating loss?
India International Exchange and India International Clearing Corporation are making losses.
India International and...
Clearing Corporation and the India International -- actually, India International Clearing Corporation are making losses. There is a very minor, small company called BSE [indiscernible], which is making losses of minor amounts.
Okay. When do you plan to reach breakeven?
Basically, India International Exchange and India International Clearing Corporation are, in essence, joined at the hip. India International Exchange, that's a clearing corporation [ better ] clearing and settlement. And [indiscernible] on their own exchange. And that exchange is actually is not charging anything. So as a confirmation, BSE was really not charged, and that is basically the reason why we are not charging. In addition, CDSL allowed the NSE IFSC exchange to do [indiscernible]. So BSE also had to match it, and that's why losses have increased. And I do not see when this will basically do it, but -- and remember, market power is there with the BSE, so we'll start charging. It'll be the [indiscernible] in near future.
Okay, and sir, I have a question about the consolidated segment. Sir, administrative and other expenses have increased by INR 10 crores now in the stand-alone income...
Yes, it has increased INR 10 crores.
So what is the account for that?
So in the consolidated segment, there are 2 main items, which is the provision for diminishing in value of investments, which we have made in ILFS Group securities, which has -- we have invested INR 17 crores in secured nonconvertible debentures of ILFS Group. And we have been in provision of 20% of the same, that is INR 3.4 crores on that account and [indiscernible] for listing fees, which was receivable. So these are clearly the reason why the admin costs have increased.
Okay. And the commodity exchange item, [indiscernible] there's a value. You have a 1 year [indiscernible] in commodity exchange. So that is including that?
You're talking about the India International? Or you are talking about the BSE commodities?
BSE commodities.
BSE commodities started trading as of October 1. And this is 1-month old in terms of calendar days. And we have -- we are not charging anything as of now for 1 year from October 1, 2018, to October 1 and September 30, 2019. So in that time, we will not be making any charges to the -- provision charges to the brokers. But -- so there will be basically some minor losses that will be entirely for the people who are dedicated for that business. And of course, we have to also do a 3-shift running operations because of the fact that the commodities are running till very late in the night, almost midnight. So we had to also sort of rejig our operations, which will cost a little more. But I do also allow us to do evening trading, and then meaning, we really also [indiscernible] allowing [indiscernible] equity revenues. So this is more of an investment happening just now. And once we have a good amount of volumes, we will be able to charge in the commodities also like what we do in currencies.
Okay. Nayan, can you do a breakout of the administrative and other expense? A little bit [ INR 41 crores ] that you have shown, [ could you give ] major amount at breakout. What includes in terms of those?
Yes. Administrative expenses will be included all tax rate. This will be regulatory expenses, which will be overhead -- deputy overhead. They'll become business expenses and also, obviously, that will be probably come from our management which is already available.
Next question comes from Mr. Ashish Chopra from Motilal Oswal Securities.
Nayan, firstly, if you could just clarify again. I missed out on the admin and other expenses. You mentioned that a provision of INR 3.4 crores would be there, and what's the second element?
The second element is we are making provision for doubtful debts, and it basically comprises of listing receivables. So that is the amount which is -- because of it, the administrative expenses increased.
Okay, okay. How about...
Yes, and this is particularly -- yes, and this is 2-pronged projection, which is in line with all the provisions, which we have been making earlier also every year.
Okay. And the reversal of unrealized interest of INR 82 lakhs, would that also be in the same expense item?
Yes, it is. Currently, we're taking it out of total income, commercial income.
Okay, got it. And secondly, if you could just quantify, sir, what would be the costs maybe of running the Commodity Derivatives for any year without any transaction charge in terms of the people and like you mentioned it will be operating in the evening. So what could be the loss that one can factor in because of that?
So it's basically a marginal -- will increase. And that is, basically, for the types who are working for 2 shifts, their salary cost and, obviously, there [indiscernible] Most of the operations and he definitely works full time, 24 hours. So it won't really make too much of -- too much difference on the orders we're in.
Okay, okay. And so I think one other announcement was of the nonrenewal of the S&P license. Does that, in any way, have an impact maybe on the cost side or on the -- some of these indices, which we were licensing earlier and taking S&P's name? So how does that really change anything? I just wanted to get some understanding on that.
Nothing much. Basically, we had done this tie-up 5 years back. But the JV couldn't do much in terms of expanding in the foreign jurisdiction, the usage of the index overall. And that's why we have decided to not renew it. But overall -- in fact, on the profits on the revenues will be minuscule.
Understood. And so I think, Ashish, on the Clearing Corporation. So there was this report that came out, which finally allowed or made way for interoperability of Clearing Corporations sometime in the future. So if you could just help us understand what could be the road map for this implementation, the likely time line? And how does it impact the BSE for the better or for the worse?
So basically, interoperability of Clearing Corporation was a requirement which BSE had come out with long back. And then, of course, there was a committee under Mr. K.V. Kamath that was set up around 5, 6 years back. And then you remember the report around 3.5 years back. We're recommending it but timing all that to SEBI. And since then there are discussions and then later on in August 2018, SEBI board took a decision to allow interoperability of Clearing Corporation. As you will have seen, it's already 6 years since the discussion started, 3, 4 years since recommendation. So more time also might be sort of taken by various people to come out with regulations after their board approves. And as they come out with the regulations, we will be able to implement it. It will -- most probably people expect it to have some positive impact on BSE's volumes because of the fact that you're not able to take sort of hedged positions in multiple exchanges if you are on a single Clearing Corporation and a multiple claimer basis. And that is basically the advantage for a trader or a hedger or an arbitrager. And that might increase the commodity index, which have lower model liquidity. Now that is clearly a practice remains to be seen how the commodity exchanges allow it to be implemented and how actually the benefits accrue. But we have some hopes. And once it is allowed, we will try to launch it as quick as possible. And you might have seen in the past anything new that is allowed, we are pretty much the first to launch any product like even commodities, recently. And because we have some solid technology and business development teams, which end up conceptualizing and implementing all these things, all the changes that SEBI wants are business changes that come very, very fast.
[Operator Instructions] Next question comes from [ Suredi ] from Mergers India Info.
Your employee benefits and expenses have increased from INR 28 crores to INR 34 crores on the consolidated side. Any specific reason for that?
Part of it is basically the inflationary part. Another part is that SEBI gave their kind of a recommendation that the employees or the employees charged to a particular fund would now have to be charged under the BSE directly, and that's where almost INR 3 crore has been added. So it's broadly, what I call, large amount that is due to that part where SEBI has not -- basically, SEBI has recommended that we need to start charging some of the employees, even those which who we have been charged on another fund into BSE's own account.
A supplementary question on the same related. Is the leadership intend to, in any way, link to market capitalization of BSE? Because since the market -- since IPO, the prices have come down substantially.
BSEs are variable...
What I'm saying is anyone linked with the market capitalization.
Basically, the way the new regulations have come out and the old regulations affecting the employment contracts for the top management of BSE was or any other action, for that matter, including commoditization is now that there -- they don't get stock options, and they don't get variable salaries, which are linked to the profits of the company. And so basically, the reason is that these are regulatory organizations, and they should focus more on regulations and compliance rather than on the maximizing profit on a short-term basis. And so that is basically the reason. However, it does not really link to the prices going up or down. And so people may like to connect, but I do not think there are any connections around.
Okay. And one of the reasons for asking is, is that somewhere it needs to be linked so that they should not reach total disconnect with the market cap and leadership pace.
Thank you, but it could also boomerang for a regulatory organization like this. However, you can take it up with SEBI and other regulators.
We retail investors have noticed it -- but okay, I appreciate it.
Thank you.
Next question comes from Mr. Rahil Jasani from ICICI Securities.
Sir, my question was on the Mutual Fund Platform which we have. So you mentioned that the platform has been seeing monthly increase of around [ 3 million ], and it's growing at a very rapid pace. So I was just assessing the opportunity size for BSE StAR MF. So I just wanted to know what will be the number and share of Mutual Fund transactions, which are invested via online platform and off-line platforms? And further, what is the share of CIFA's banks and other intermediaries in these transactions?
Basically, we have some of the largest distributor for aggregators are also on BSE. Okay? And we have some of the largest stockbroker entities are also on BSE, some of the largest banking comes from broker entities are also on BSE. So some of the larger ones go through the BSE. Some of the smaller ones go through the like one -- also go through BSE and in between [indiscernible] there are more so on and so forth. So currently, I don't have the ready-made numbers on which type of people are sort of placing more orders on BSE, but basically, we are the back end to the entire industry. We are not the front end but any type of front-end whether it is manual front-end or automated front end or completely robotic front end. They all use the BSE StAR MF Platform equally well. In fact, even the portfolio managers, some of the largest portfolio managers also use BSE StAR MF for their customers who want to replace their model.
Right. Right. Sir, so I was not acting, particularly, about the existing mix of intermediaries. But what potential do you see going forward of your customers increasing or the intermediaries coming to you?
Basically, they say that, there are around 2 crores to 3 crores mutual transactions in a year -- or in a month happening. And BSE is doing around INR 33 lakhs to INR 35 lakhs now from this month onwards. So in terms of number of transactions, we are still lower. But in terms of value of transactions, we are like 20%, 25% of the total. In terms of new customers, I've been told we are around 44% to 48% of all new customers are now coming through BSE StAR MF. And so we are slowly becoming the larger vendor entire -- in terms of the pace at which we are growing, we are growing faster vendor industry pace, and we still have a larger headroom to grow our costs up [ structure ] because we are a back-end. And that's where we also say as far as estimate around Q4 [indiscernible] for transaction for Mutual Fund industry. However, some of the large Mutual Fund industry players who have a large distribution network. They clearly do not like the smaller ones who have similar or even better distribution framework at even lower costs. So there is a bit of a -- kind of a competition that is going on. They also try to set up MF utilities by creating a one [indiscernible]. And of course, everyone now is trying to create their own direct website-based framework. But clearly here, StAR MF is growing at a very, very rapid pace, and I don't know how fast it would be able to kind of get to INR 1 crore transaction and then INR 2 crore transactions a month, but our technology is [ varied ]. And as you know, this year, we started charging total amounts broadly to the nature of our industry, because it was a fast year of payments. For the first 7 years of our services, nobody paid. This year, only [ BSI ] have paid. And hopefully, we'll be able to also increase our charges a little bit going forward. And so it's basically it remains to be negotiated, among other things. But those are the hopes, and let's see how it works out.
Great color. So actually just to follow up on that. You said that there are other bigger players who have also started their own line, who already have online platforms going on. So what will -- what can be your value proposition for these guys to come to BSE StAR MF platform onboard?
So basically, the distributor, who is not tied to a particular fund. He would rather want to sort of have a piece of mind and a piece of operations every day. When he goes through BSE StAR MF, he has to [ deal ] with only one entity, which is BSE every day for all his transactions, in all the major funds, in all the schemes. Whether it goes through 100 different websites, he doesn't even -- he can't even keep track with whom he's trading, how much, where will the money go, or how it has gone about and all those things, right. So it's basically like creating your own roles. If you want a private or basically go on the role which somebody else has created and the network of roads, which is what BSE is giving you. And that's what I still think having a public role is better than creating private role by the individuals.
Right. Sir, great color. Sir, just a final question on the Mutual Fund bit again. So you said you are charging a nominal fee now since last 2, 3 quarters. This quarter, we saw around 8.5 million, 9 million orders in the whole quarter. So what I was wondering what is the transaction charges, which we earned in this quarter from BSE StAR MF platform?
Around INR 7 crores of income we have earned out of this Mutual Fund transaction.
INR 7 crores.
INR 7 crores. Around INR 7 crores.
Around INR 7 crores.
Next question comes from Mr. [ Sandish Cardoli ], individual investor.
Yes, you have given a half yearly performance. So I just want to know the transaction charges at trading income and other by quarterly, Q2 FY '19. Quarterly income trading, other income and service to corporate income by Q2 FY '19.
Your input...
We have reported on half yearly basis.
If you see the securities services income, which is -- which we basically compares our transaction income, it is more or less the same at around 40 -- last year -- in the last quarter, it was INR 42 crores, this time, it's INR 43 crores. Listing income last time was INR 56 crores, this time, it is INR 55 crores. And this is assuming income receivable and as far as the investment income is concerned, the last time it was INR 39 crores, it is INR 42 crores this time.
Okay. And Mutual Fund income, other income or other operating income?
It's in the transaction side. It is a securities services income for us.
[Operator Instructions] As we don't have any further questions from the participants, now I would like to hand the call back to Mr. Yatin Padia. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you for joining the earnings call.
Shall we conclude this call, sir?
Yes.
That does conclude the conference for today. Thank you for participating. On the line participants, please, you may all disconnect now. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.