Blue Dart Express Ltd
NSE:BLUEDART
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Blue Dart Express Ltd
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So good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to the interaction with the management of Blue Dart Express. So firstly, I would like to thank the management for giving us the opportunity to host the call. So today, we have with us Mrs. Sudha Pai, CFO, Blue Dart Express; Mr. Tushar Gunderia, Head of Legal and Compliance and Company Secretary, Blue Dart Express; and Mr. Sagar Patil, Head of Corporate Accounts, Blue Dart Express.
So I would now hand over the call to the management team to provide some opening remarks on the Q2 performance and then we can start with the Q&A session. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Hello, good afternoon, everybody. Thank you, Alok, and good afternoon, all. A very warm welcome to all of you into the quarter 2 financial year '24 earnings call of Blue Dart Express Limited. As you are aware, the Board of Directors of the company approved the second quarter financial results in its meeting ended on 11th November 2024, and company declared its financial results for the quarter and half year ended 30th September 2024, wherein the company posted profit after tax of INR 608 million for the quarter ended 30th September '24.
Revenue from operations stood at INR 14,485 million. Blue Dart known for its exceptional service quality, strengthened by advanced automation and technology remains a cornerstone for its operations, providing customers with a seamless one-stop solution for all their logistics needs. The results have already been uploaded on the stock exchanges and also posted on the website of the company in accordance with the provisions of stock exchange listing obligations.
I now hand over the call to Sudha Pai, CFO, and also Sagar Patil, Head of Corporate Accounts for further proceedings. Thank you.
Thank you, Tushar. You have already summarized the results for the quarter and year-end. We can straight away go into the question and answer.
Yes. Yes, over to investors.
Sure. So we'll start with the Q&A session. [Operator Instructions] So first question, we'll take from Amit Dixit.
I have 2 questions. The first one is on database question. If you can let us know the number of parcels and tonnage that was carried...
Amit, if you don't mind, be a little louder, audible, be a little louder, please.
Yes. Sure, sure. Is it better now?
Yes, yes, better.
Yes, sure. Sir, the first question is more of a bookkeeping question. If you can let us know the tonnage and number of parcels that were carried in this quarter.
So in this quarter, the tonnages we carried with -- it's -- in terms of the shipments, it is 96.6 million. And in terms of the weight, it is 343,676 [ tonnes ] overall weight.
Okay. The second question is on the new jets. So just wanted to understand what is the current utilization level? And have we broken even what was the performance of these jets in this quarter?
Our utilization on the new aircrafts you are saying, right?
Yes, yes. On the new aircraft.
Our utilization on the new aircraft has improved versus the previous quarter and just a moment, sorry. Our utilization on the new aircraft has increased from the previous quarter. The fixed expense, the unutilized expense that was there in the last quarter was around INR 11 crores, and now it's somewhere around INR 8 crores. So definitely, there is an improvement in the utilization.
And have these aircrafts broken even.
Yes, it's broken even. It has been -- the breakeven had happened even in the past quarters. It was just that we needed a better utilization.
Okay. Okay. Fine. So if you don't mind, can you let us know the utilization in terms -- can you quantify it, let us know in terms of numbers, what is the utilization level in percentage or something?
We can get back, but it's somewhere around like 82% to 83%, whereas the ideal being 90% to 92%.
[Operator Instructions] There were a couple of questions from investors who couldn't join. One was on actually what's the growth outlook now in terms of tonnage for this year. Have you seen a strong buildup for the festive season of Q3 and also how it has been -- how the outlook is for Q4 in terms of tonnages because there are some mixed signals that there have been some sectors which are seeing slowdown and some are doing well. Just your thoughts on that.
So we generally do not give forward-looking statements here. But the outlook is definitely, as we said, it's a festive season, one of the months of the quarter has already passed October and it's festive season, and we definitely expect it to be the better than the previous quarter.
Sure. And just 1 question was related to the new aircrafts only. So this 80%, 82%, which -- the utilization has already happened, that -- how that 90%, 95% utilization when can we expect it to achieve?
We expect as -- it's a festive quarter, and we expect it to -- to be best utilized from this quarter or perhaps into the next quarter, at least like.
Sure. Just a reconfirmation on the tonnage number? It is 343,676 for this quarter.
Okay, the shipment is 96.60 million and the weight is 343,676 tonnes.
We'll take 1 question from the call. So we will take a question from Mr. Anshul Agrawal.
Question is on margins, ma'am. So why are our consol margins not improving despite volumes growing over the last 2, 3 quarters? I believe with the volume numbers that have given us volumes have grown almost by 11% Y-o-Y. But margins have been -- consol margins have been around 15%, 15.1% versus last year, the same number was around 17%. So is it because of increasing contribution from surface? Or what is it that is leading to margins not improving despite growth coming in?
So I mean, you rightly gauge there, Anshul. It's product mix change. We are growing more on the ground than versus the air. That's one of the reason. Plus, we have invested into air. That is reason #2. Plus, we have made some IT investments and to -- one of the investment into the facility in North region for which we are going -- for which we are having a cost currently. So these are the broad reasons for margins to be at a lower side as per -- versus the last year.
Got it. And incrementally, ma'am, we would expect surface to keep growing faster than air right? So margin profile would sort of remain similar?
Yes. Yes. Yes. I mean if we take out this investment part, what I mentioned, which is into the aircraft and which is into the new facility, our margin would be roughly around like 6.6% versus -- the 6.6% here, I'm saying at...
EBIT level?
Yes, EBIT level, yes, EBIT level and that's where like to -- that should be the trend. Unless something great major dynamics in the marketplace happens, this is a trend that we do expect to continue.
Sure. Just a follow-up on that, ma'am. I think if I recollect correctly, we were targeting a PBT margin level of around 8%, 8.5%. Would that number, as you mentioned, stand corrected or stand changed for the full year or the next year?
We expect the festive to help us to improve our margins there and ideally we should hit that budgeted level of margins of around 8%.
Got it. And if possible, could you give us a growth -- could you give us a ballpark revenue mix for our business right now segmented into, say, B2C, surface, air?
I'm sorry, we don't give the product level and within the ground and air information in the public domain.
We'll take next question from Mr. Pulkit.
Ma'am, I think there's been a lot of confusion because a couple of quarters back, you spoke about the 2 planes, the utilizations going up, the cargo mix being higher yield and as a result of its margins likely to be better. But in the last quarter as well as this quarter, you're saying that margins are expected to be in this range. So if you could just clarify that as a combination of one, your air-to-surface move, which is margin dilutive and offset by higher utilization and better yield on the 2 aircrafts, what is the rough cut margins that we should be baking in, taking both of them together? That's question number one.
So If I understand your question much better, you are saying that -- or perhaps, can you help to rephrase your question, please?
Okay. Ma'am I'll try it again. One, you're seeing the shift, which is more in favor of surface, which is in pressure on margin. That's one dynamic that's playing out and probably continues to play out, I don't know, right? The other dynamic is that the 2 planes, which are today deployed, which are the new planes, you had mentioned that initially, your objective is to just fill those planes. Over time, you would look at improving yields once the traffic builds up, et cetera, and that is going to be margin accretive.
What my question is, if I look at both these factors together, then what is the kind of margins that we can bake in, in the next 5, 6 quarters for the company? That's the question.
See Pulkit, the thing is that we do not make any of this forward-looking statements. But ideally, with the quarter-on-quarter improvement in the utilization as well as with the festive quarter coming in, we expect our margins to improve and that's exactly one of the questions which was recently said that -- which was just now asked that whether 8% looks realistic. We aim that one to be achieved like...
Sure, ma'am. Yes, the second question is generally on the outlook. I mean, we've seen now almost 7, 8 quarters where while our revenue has been inching up slightly, our EBITDA has been in the INR 220 crores to INR 220 crores kind of a range. Just based on the kind of business that you see developing, the kind of conversations you are having with your customers, et cetera, do we see this number improving from here on? Or is the business outlook such that we are likely to remain in the current range? And I'm not asking for a guidance. I'm just asking for feelers on what you are seeing or your business is seeing in terms of overall growth outlook for you?
So definitely, air is driven by the festive period which is the quarter that we are in, plus the growth that we are seeing in the surface business. And lastly, it depends on the market dynamics, how the growth outlook in the market or the domestic demand is like. I mean the figures are that we have to improve on quarter-on-quarter. Of course, we have our annual budgets to be achieved. And that's definitely a stretch during the festive quarters. Like it's normally tend to -- I would say that 7% to 8% higher than the previous quarters, right? So we definitely expect that we should improve from this quarter onwards much better into the next quarter. And that's something I can share at the most like.
Maybe, ma'am, I'll take the liberty of asking 1 more. Can you comment on those 2 planes, how is the current utilization there? How is the traffic developing there? Any color on that would be helpful.
So our utilization, as I said in one of the responses, our utilization has gone better there. Ideally, we had a fixed expense of INR 11 crores in the previous quarter. This quarter, it is at around like INR 8 crores, INR 8.1 crores INR 8.2 crores. So definitely, the utilization has gone better. My ideal capacity cost is lower from the previous quarter to this quarter. And we are expecting that one of the lanes -- one of the smallest lanes that we are facing the challenges, inbounds from Guwahati -- outbounds from Guwahati -- Guwahati to Delhi lane. There we expect utilization to get better.
Yes. This would be a few updates on this aircraft, 2 new aircrafts that has been deployed.
Thank you so much. We take the next question from Mr. Achal.
I first wanted to understand if you could comment on the market share. Is there any way you can comment on the market share, whether for the quarter or the first half or on a trading basis, whatever fashion you want to give? Whether we are maintaining improving market share in both the segments air as well as surface?
Market share information, we don't really talk about it, Achal, I'm sorry.
No problem. Ma'am, the second question, at least from an industry growth perspective, how do you see both the segments growing, what kind of industry growth you're looking at? And specifically, if you talk about surface transport, how do you look at this particular segment in terms of capital deployment?
Yes, please.
Yes, from industry growth point of view, we are servicing very niche areas, especially the express products, whereas the industry will be driven by a much larger perspective. As we have seen and we do also see that in future, the e-commerce, which has been growing faster, will continue to drive our growth. And also as far as surface B2B is concerned, there also we are trying -- we are -- that has been our growth engine. And we see -- and we are also not the biggest player, but we see that, that is one avenue where we have some room for better growth, and that is continuing in the last few quarters that you are seeing.
Right. Any quantification, sir, with respect to the segments, what is the industry growth? Is it sub 10%? Is it 10%, 12%?
Normally, by segmented, we do not comment. But yes, we have seen the surface growing at around 14-plus percent. And we see that the growth can continue or be even better around those lines.
Right. And have you seen pricing pressure in case of e-com? Or it is pretty much stable or any improvement there?
That always is the case with this market with a number of players and different segments when it comes to the wet breaks or lanes. So that's the part of life. So yes, we do see competitive pressure, and we are also a very active participant in that.
Right. And I recall earlier, we used to kind of indicate e-com somewhere around 24%, 25% of revenue. Has that inched up? Has that remained pretty much in the similar fashion sir?
Similar fashion, no major change. I mean, while we do not really actually talk about the segmented one, but yes, e-com remains the growth driver as well along with the surface.
Understood. And one more question, if I may, with respect to the capital expenditure. If you could guide about what is it that you're looking at for FY '25 and '26 and in what segments or which side of the business?
It will continue to be in the range that we have spent between INR 150 crores to INR 250 crores, which will be more of renewal and expansion combined because we are already there in most of the parts of the market in the country.
Right. And aggregate capacity utilization for both surface and air? Would it be possible to get that sense?
It is optimum. I mean we do not own any of the vehicles. So it's all market driven. We don't put CapEx over there. And the warehouses also since we're express product, it's a fairly distributed case to case. There are a number of facilities, number of locations. So it's a business as usual when it goes to the expansion of those facilities.
So this INR 250 crores, is there anything going for a freight or anything on those? Like what's the split here in terms of surface and air in this CapEx?
This is largely surface facilities, no specific about the aircraft or anything at this point of time.
[Operator Instructions] We'll take next question from Krupashankar.
Am I audible now?
Yes, you are audible.
Sorry, I joined a little bit late. Can you probably repeat what would have been the tonnage for the quarter and number of shipments, if you can.
The shipments are 96.6 million and tonnages are at 343,676.
Okay. My question was more to do with in the market, newer markets, which we had taken up on e-commerce as such, for example, taking it with a platform like Ship Rocket and so on. Just wanted to get a sense, is e-commerce going to be the fastest-growing subsegment followed by surface express? Is that understanding correct?
Yes. Yes. That's a trend at least what we are also witnessing.
All right. So given that, generally, we are seeing that there has been some challenges relating to your yields on e-commerce as well, which you have said that it is quite competitive right now. Where do you think the buck stops, I think after a certain point, it becomes unviable to go below a certain level. So is there any thought process around what the management thinks that probably if the value of the shipment is X, you should assign a particular logistics cost range. And that should -- that is where it has to be the lowest logistics cost. Is that something which you guys do as an assessment?
Well, from a financial aspect, definitely, that's one of the things that we keep on pushing to ensure that we have a profitable growth. However, we have to also -- Blue Dart is known for its timeliness in delivering the shipment. That remains the key line. So nothing comes at the cost of compromise on the quality. The quality comes first and then comes the cost, and then we ensure that we have a profitable growth as well there.
So is it very fair to assume that the pricing band for Blue Dart versus the rest of the industry would have that premium disparity which we have seen in the Surface Express, is that something which we should consider going ahead?
Well, it depends on various criteria like what lane we are looking at or which you -- I mean it depends on various criteria there. Like so not really sure that what you just mentioned would be the...
Right. Yes, I understand. So probably, let me rephrase it in a different manner. Specific probably where growth avenues, let's take Tier 1, Tier 2 city where the growth has been substantially higher, but the market has become quite intense over there. We would choose to price our services according to the competitive environment. But whereas areas where the niche is still existent with respect to requirement of a quality fast service. And that is something wherein the pricing disparity may continue. Is that a fair assessment?
Well, yes, we would say that, yes, yes.
Sure, sure. So in that context, why I'm driving this part is just to understand that the pricing hike which we have announced starting in from January that the volume growth generally for the industry is facing a lot of challenges be it on e-commerce or Surface Express, the pushback would be quite high from a customer standpoint. And given the inflationary part is eating up on our margins, how confident are we with respect to the price hikes over the next -- coming in from January onwards. That's something which I wanted to pick your brain on.
As rightly said that the inflationary trends are at a very rampant speed. And we expect, again, like to have our price increases as per the annual calendar, which is Jan to December. And I guess there has been a press release as well, confirming the GPI percentage somewhere between 10%. Yes, 10% to 12%. So that's the outlook what we are having for next year as far as GPI and to cover your price increases.
Sure. So it's very fair to assume that as an industry there will be certain price hikes coming in irrespective of tonnage growth. Is that something which you're picking based on your conversation with probably your customers?
Sorry, I didn't get that question. Can you say that again, please?
Sorry. So what I was trying to highlight is that your peers have also communicated from January onwards, there will be a few hikes [indiscernible]. But as an industry as a whole, is it fair to assume that irrespective of the volume growth coming in, in the next financial year, there should be price hikes taken just to offset the inflationary pressures. Is that something which is well understood by the customer because the pushbacks typically are quite strong, which defers a large portion of price hike. So just wanted to get a sense that now the industry has taken a stern view, the express logistic industry has taken a stern view with respect to pricing. Is that a feeler which you're getting with your interactions with customers, they are ready to give out that hike?
We'll say it -- say -- in the longer term, that would be the phenomena because somewhere the cost increases, the rental increases, the minimum wage increases, the increase in the fuel prices, this all things somewhere maybe a month later or a quarter later and so on, it has to be passed on to the customers like and that could be an industrial trend as well, right? So we expect that -- we do have a challenge, yes, with the customers, explaining them the reason for the increase in the cost and so on like, but then overall, looking at the service quality, looking at the timeliness, which Blue Dart is known for, somewhere we are able to convince the customers to accept this.
[Operator Instructions] Meanwhile we'll take questions from the chat box. So one question was on what was -- when was the last price hike taken and were we able to pass it entirely?
So the price hike, we have our annual GPI exercise. However, for certain customers where the contractually they fall within a quarter or within the second quarter of the year and so on. We accordingly have a negotiation and discussion with the customers, and it's an ongoing exercise. It's not that we start up in January and close in January or close within the Q1. It happens. It flows continually throughout the year, depending on the customer contract. Although the intention is that, yes, we have our all GPIs, and it's a desirable thing as well to have all the GPIs frozen right in the quarter 1 itself, at least for contracted and the regular customers.
Sure, we'll take the follow-up question from Mr. Amit.
Just pushing further on this price hike, do we foresee some resistance from the customers considering the operating environment we are in? And do you think that this price hike, if accepted initially can come at the cost of volumes? Because of our volumes have grown quite a bit, if you compare Y-o-Y or Q-o-Q. So in Q4, do we see volumes coming under pressure if this price hike is accepted or vice versa.
So overall, there is -- overall, if there is a great boost in the domestic demand and if the industry trend is that the cost increases or the GPI from most of the competitors as well as us stands at between 8% to 9% to 10%, maybe -- there may be -- for a shorter period of time, there may be the volume challenge. But overall, if you look at how the overall economy has to work the price hikes cannot be evaded. Can we say a no to our minimum wages, we can't say . Can we say no for rental increases, no. We try to defer it. We try to ensure that minimum wages are something which we can't even defer it. So similar would be the outlook on the GPI part with the customer. Maybe there would be a deferral, maybe they would accept it, the volumes should go lower and so on. But then overall, looking at what is the USP of Blue Dart, like it's a timeliness.
Considering that factor, we expect that the volume would trend equally along with the price increase, that's at least the expectation.
Okay. The second one is essentially on Air Express since we are seeing that Surface Express share, while we don't know, I mean qualitatively or quantitatively how much is the share, but we know for sure that from the discussions we have had that it is increasing. Now in this scenario, do that some -- how do you -- actually, how do you see the competition from large e-commerce players having their own logistics ecosystem and airlines also utilizing their belly cargo for Air Express. How is the competition evolving over there? And do you see that because of the low yields that we are getting now, some of these guys ultimately could actually give it to third parties like you or something like that?
That -- those challenges do continue to -- do continue to trend in our Board Room discussion with the new airports coming in, with the more of a belly space being available and the trends that we may have -- we may not have a dominant position as we were having in the past on the airport. Those discussions do continue, and do dominate the discussions. But ultimately, what we have so far noticed that with this commercial network space and so on, so it's an opportunity. But ultimately, Blue Dart has its own network. It has invested again into 2 aircrafts to make its network more robust. So service quality is something where -- we are currently able to hold on because of these investments.
And yes, I mean, there would be a bit of an ups and downs, but the current trend is like our network investment into network helps us to maintain the service quality and ultimately the customers.
See, one more, if I can squeeze it that the freighters when initially they were contemplated, we thought that we will serve the Northeast market because it was quite attractive, some of the Tier 2 cities. So does that thesis still hold? Or after a while you find that the market is no longer as attractive as we thought it to be or maybe because of the overall slowdown, we are seeing that maybe what kind of potential we contemplated, might just come, but it is deferred for the time being.
So our utilization, as I mentioned in a few of the earlier responses, our utilization has improved on our -- on these 2 networks that we have invested into which means that our investment in Northeast continues to improve, of course, the pace at which our expectation is that it should improve versus the pace at which in reality it is pending. Maybe there is a bit of a gap there. However, currently, we intend to stick to our laid down network which includes investment into Northeast.
Okay. Now since we have reached already 80% to 83% utilization and 90% to 92% is ideal, which you said that we might see it getting achieved in Q4. Is there any plan to go for new freighters at this point in time? For the new freighters, yes.
No, no; new, no, not currently in the pipeline.
All right. All right. Thank you so much. We'll take next question from Mr. Anshul.
So my question is on the CapEx spend that we envisage for this year, the next year. And you alluded that it's on -- it's majorly on surface facilities or Surface Express. Considering we are asset light in this segment, would you be able to shed -- throw some light on where exactly these spends will happen? Some broad color?
Those Investment would be mainly on the hubs and the service centers that we would need for ensuring that we have a better auto sorters, which improves the -- which improves the speed of servicing to the customers like that would be the broad investment that we are planning on the surface part.
We'll take our next question from Mr. Achal.
If you could help us understand the extent of fixed cost at the company level on a quarterly basis, is there any way to know that?
We generally do not publish any further breakdown of the cost, which is into semi variable, variable, OpEx. We do keep it our internal review, I'm really sorry for that.
No, no problem. I was just referring to the INR 11 crore and INR 8 crore number, what you had mentioned if you have a similar number at the company level, I think you mentioned that for the particular freighter.
This is particularly to give our investors an overview about [indiscernible] in terms of utilization because that's one of the key questions that we get that are about 2 aircrafts that we have invested into, which is why we give that information. But overall, at a fixed cost level, it would be roughly as a percentage of the total cost base, we can say that it's around 50%, 50% of my total cost base, and I hope this helps, Achal.
[indiscernible] because of cost that is fixed from a monthly perspective, [indiscernible] from a quarterly perspective or yearly perspective. So in the long run, everything is variable. So it's a very subjective interpretation. But yes, month-on-month, when we look at it, 50% broadly is what we see. But then that can always be variable because it can always move the manpower, the contracted vehicles out depending on how the volume comes in.
No, no, fair point. Where I was coming from, like in terms of employee cost -- I presume when you're saying 50% of the cost you're excluding the freight and servicing cost. Are you including everything in that total cost?
Total cost, yes.
Including the freight and servicing.
Yes.
Understood. And second question I had was with respect to the white space. So like you mentioned, Northeast, we intend to continue investment in the Northeast pocket. Are there any more such white spaces left where we still have to kind of invest and if yes, what is the quantum and where?
No, we do not see any major white spaces. Even in terms of Northeast, it's not that we have entered those markets. It's only that we have improved the service quality by having -- extending our own network so that we have service time line from 48 hours to 24 hours. So it's more of improving the services. But in terms of major white spaces where we got it covered.
Understood. Understood. And just last question, if I may. Is it possible to get some sense about the mix in terms of various industries for us, FMCG, pharma, et cetera, governments, et cetera.
No, we do not.
Yes, we generally do not publish that.
[Operator Instructions] Sir, we'll take a couple of questions which were there in the chat box earlier. So one was what has been the growth in the air segment? And how is the industry grown. One is how the company has grown in air and what about the overall industry?
We generally avoid giving details on air versus ground segment-wise information.
Just I think 1 last question from the chat box. So a lot of the other companies are talking about pretty slow volume growth in 1H and even they are also mentioning about the price hikes is kind of not possible in the current environment. So while we have announced the price hike from January onwards, what's the probability that we might not be able to take the price hike in an entire way or the price hike might be delayed. Any comments on that?
Yes. I mean, it really depends on how the demand for the market is, how is the overall economic scenario. While we also intend that the price hikes should materialize as has been communicated. But it really depends on a lot of other factors as well. But we are optimistic that the price hikes that we have communicated to translate into the reality.
We'll take 1 question from Mr. Dhruv Jain.
I had 1 question with respect to margin. So obviously, we've been in a weak operating environment with respect to volume growth. But assuming that, say, about 2 quarters from now, if double-digit growth for the industry as well as for Blue Dart comes through, what is the peak EBIT or EBITDA margin whatever number you're comfortable that you can get to? I mean, if you're not comfortable giving an exact number, if you could just give us a directional number in terms of how much improvement that we can see, given the fact that you've already invested in a lot of freighters and all the other assets.
So Blue Dart per se if you look at the past trends has been consistently and I'm being very conservatively being on a single-digit margin. We expect to remain within the same range between 7% to 8% to 9%. That's the outlook that we are having.
But would there not be any scope for operating leverage to play out?
For the -- sorry, operating?
So in a sense that would it not be the case that your costs don't grow as fast as your revenue growth? I know you have to invest some bit of it in your business again, but would there not be some scope for operating leverage in terms of margins improving for you from where you are currently?
So we do have -- we do keep a tap on the operating leverage and to ensure that the margins can improve. However, we would be investing into the surface facilities as a part of our CapEx spend, like which would, again, keep our annual -- the margins at the single-digit level.
You're talking about EBIT margin or EBITDA margin?
EBIT, yes.
Consolidated EBIT margin, right?
Yes.
Thank you. As there are no further questions, I would now hand over the call over to the management for any closing comments.
So nothing specific from our side further, I mean if there are no questions, we can close the call or let us know.
Sure, sure. So thank you so much for giving us an opportunity to host the call, and thanks, everyone, for joining us.
Thank you. Thank you Alok for organizing. Thank you all. Thank you, investors. Thank you.