Bajaj Finserv Ltd

NSE:BAJAJFINSV

Earnings Call Analysis

Bajaj Finserv Reports Record Year with Key Milestones

In FY '24, Bajaj Finserv achieved a 34% increase in consolidated income, reaching INR 1,10,383 crores, and a 27% rise in profit after tax, totaling INR 8,148 crores. Bajaj Allianz General Insurance (BAGIC) saw 32.3% growth in premium income, becoming the third-largest insurer in India. Bajaj Finserv Health advanced its capabilities with the acquisition of Vidal Healthcare. Additionally, the asset management and life insurance arms also delivered strong growth, with BALIC's Assets Under Management (AUM) crossing INR 1 lakh crores and profit after tax increasing by 44%.

Record-Breaking Financial Performance

Bajaj Finserv Ltd. reported a phenomenal year with consolidated total income for FY '24 hitting a record ₹1,10,383 crores, reflecting a 34% increase year-over-year. The consolidated profit after tax (PAT) was also at an all-time high of ₹8,148 crores, up by 27%. Excluding the volatile unrealized gains, the core PAT still exhibited robust growth of 21%. These milestones signal robust operational performance, ensuring investor confidence.

Strong Growth in Insurance Businesses

The company's two main insurance subsidiaries, Bajaj Allianz General Insurance (BAGIC) and Bajaj Allianz Life Insurance (BALIC), reported outstanding growth figures. BAGIC became the third-largest insurer in India by exceeding ₹20,000 crores in premium, which is a 32.3% increase over the previous year. In terms of profitability, BAGIC recorded an 18% growth in PAT to ₹380 crores for the quarter. BALIC saw its assets under management (AUM) cross ₹1 lakh crores with a commendable PAT growth of 44% over the year to ₹563 crores.

Expansion and Strategic Acquisitions

Bajaj Finserv Health made a strategic move by acquiring Vidal Healthcare, an important third-party administrator in the insurance space. This acquisition received regulatory approval in Q4 and is set to enhance Bajaj Finserv Health’s capabilities in providing comprehensive healthcare services, including managed care offerings, outpatient services, inpatient hospitalization, and digital platforms.

Impressive Performance in Lending Businesses

Bajaj Finance Ltd. (BFL), the lending arm, demonstrated remarkable growth metrics. BFL recorded a consolidated profit after tax of ₹3,825 crores for the quarter, representing a 20% increase. The assets under management (AUM) also grew to ₹3,30,615 crores. Customer acquisition was particularly strong with 1.45 crores new customers added in FY '24, marking it the highest ever for the company.

Healthy Growth in Housing Finance

Bajaj Housing Finance Ltd. (BHFL), a 100% mortgage subsidiary of BFL, maintained its upward trajectory. The AUM grew by 32% to ₹91,374 crores, and the company reported a PAT growth of 26% for the quarter to ₹381 crores. The housing finance segment continues to be a significant profit driver for Bajaj Finserv, contributing to its diverse revenue streams.

Doubling Down on Digital Platforms

Bajaj Finserv's digital platform, Bajaj Finserv Direct, attracted 72 lakh consumers, and managed to convert 1.6 lakh of them into paying customers in Q4 FY '24. This indicates substantial growth in digital adoption and customer engagement, bolstering the company’s fintech prospects. The digital platforms facilitated the sale of various financial products, driving further value creation.

Future Outlook

Looking forward, Bajaj Finserv remains optimistic about sustaining its growth trajectory aided by favorable market conditions and regulatory developments aimed at increasing insurance penetration by 2047. The company also plans to capitalize on synergies from recent acquisitions and continue expanding its digital ecosystem. The strong profitability across all segments is expected to provide a robust foundation for continued success in the coming fiscal year.

Earnings Call Transcript 2024-Q4

[Operator]

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Q4 FY '24 Bajaj Finserv Limited Earnings Conference Call hosted by JM Financial. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Sameer Bhise from JM Financial. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

[Sameer Bhise, analyst]

Thank you, [ Musa ]. Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to the Q4 FY '24 Earnings Conference Call for Bajaj Finserv Limited. First of all, I would like to thank the management of Bajaj Finserv for giving us this opportunity to host the call. As always, we will have opening comments from the management team post which we will open the floor for Q&A.

From the management side today, we have Mr. S. Srinivasan, CFO, Bajaj Finserv; Mr. Tapan Singhel, CEO, Baja Allianz General Insurance; Mr. Tarun Chugh, CEO of Baja Allianz Life Insurance; Mr. Ramandeep Singh Sahni, CFO of the General Insurance Business; Mr. Vipin, CFO of the Life Insurance business; Mr. Ashish Panchal, CEO of Bajaj Finserv Direct; and Mr. Devang Mody, CEO of Bajaj Finserv Health.

With that, I would like to hand over the floor to Mr. Srinivasan for his opening comments. Over to you, sir. Thank you.

[S. Sreenivasan, executive]

Thank you, Sameer. I hope everyone can hear me well. Good afternoon, everyone. This is the conference call to discuss the results of Bajaj Finserv Limited for Q4 of FY '24 and for the financial year ended 31st March 2024. As usual, we will be concentrating largely on the results of our 2 insurance companies, Bajaj Allianz General Insurance BAGIC and Bajaj Allianz Life Insurance and also the -- some of the smaller companies of ours, predominantly Bajaj Finserv Direct and Bajaj Finserv Health. Bajaj Finance has already had its call yesterday, but we would be glad to take any high-level questions on BFL. We will not be taking any questions on the status of Allianz' stake insurance companies, except to state that it has remained the same and there is no change.

Any statement that look like forward-looking statements are just estimates and do not constitute assurance or indication of any future performance results from our side. As you know, while Bajaj Finserv files its financials in compliance with Indian Accounting Standards, the two insurance companies are not yet covered by IndAS. And their stand-alone results are on the Indian GAAP, basically based on the [ IIDA ] regulations governing preparation of financial statements. However, for the both of consolidation, they do provide us with Ind AS financial statements.

Now let me start with the key highlights for FY '24. Actually, the FY '24 for us has been a year in which we crossed many milestones. Bajaj Finserv consolidated total income for the year crossed INR 1 lakh crores, and then we ended at INR 1,10,383 crores, which is a 34% year-on-year increase. Our consolidated profit after tax for FY '24 were INR 8,148 crores, which is 27% higher than the previous year. Even excluding the volatile mark-to-market unrealized gains of BAGIC and BALIC, the consolidated profit after tax was INR 8,180 crores, which is up 21% year-on-year. Both the consolidated revenue and profit are the highest ever for Bajaj Finserv.

BFL's consolidated AUM exceeded INR 3,30,000 crores. BAGIC became the third largest insurer, the premium exceeding INR 20,000 crores, overtaking 3 public sector companies of long vintage in the process. BALIC AUM crossed INR 1 lakh crores, and Bajaj Finserv Health entered the hospitalization and insurance settlement space with the completion of its acquisition of Vidal Healthcare. This acquisition has been approved by the insurance regulator in Q4. Bajaj Finserv AMC ended the year with an AUM of INR 9,552 crores, the tier under INR 10,000 crores, just 9 months after the launch of export.

Let me give a brief update on the Vidal acquisition. In the previous quarter, we said that Bajaj Finserv Health has entered in an agreement to acquire Vidal Healthcare Services. And Vidal Healthcare Services in turn owned Vidal Healthcare TPA, a registered third-party administrator under the insurance regulations. This transaction has been completed and the payment for the acquisition has been made in April 2024. Bajaj Finserv Health shall now work quarter over the integration of the business and utilization of the Vidal network and offerings for its customers. The acquisition of VHC significantly augments the capabilities of our Healthcare bench in the declared space, empowering it to provide services to insurance companies, employers and governments and will also enable them to cover all customer segments through products, managed care offerings, outpatient services, inpatient hospitalization and claims management and digital platforms.

Between BAGIC and Bajaj Finserv Health, we now have the toolkits needed to become a meaningful player in the health care services space. Devang, the CEO of Finserv Health is with us in this call to take any questions you may have on this acquisition on Finserv Health strategy.

Let me now start with the highlights of our consolidated financial results for Q4, which have been put up in our press release a while ago. Our consolidated total income for Q4, up 36% at INR 32,042 crores compared with INR 23,625 crores in Q4 FY '23. The consolidated profit after tax, a 20% increase at INR 2,119 crores versus INR 1,769 crores in the same quarter of the previous year. As I mentioned earlier, since the insurance companies -- to account for unrealized gains or mark-to-market gains or losses on the equity account as fair value to profit and loss account, we tend to also -- we traditionally also disclosed the impact on profit of such volatile gains. If you were to exclude the impact of these MTM losses and gains, the core profit after tax would have been -- would have increased by 17% in Q4 FY '24.

During the quarter, BFL recorded a top line growth of 25% growing from INR 7,781 crores to INR 9,714 and a consolidated profit after tax, higher by [ 20% ] at INR 3,825 crores versus INR 3,158 crores. The ROE was 20.5% versus 23.9%, largely because BFL had raised about INR 9,000-odd crores in Q3 of FY '24. BAGIC recorded top line growth in gross written premium of 32%, INR 4,962 crores versus INR 3,766 crores. Profit after tax increased by 18% to INR 380 crores versus INR 322 crores, and the ROE was 3.6% versus 0.4%. The combined ratio, as measured as per the IRDA's master circular on financial statement, was 101.6% versus 97.3% the same quarter of the previous year. BAGIC recorded a top line growth of 27% with gross written premium increasing to INR 8,183 crore in the quarter compared with INR 6,434 crores profit after tax higher by [ 321% ] from INR 26 crores to INR 106 crores. More importantly, the NBV increased by 16% from INR 414 crores to INR 480. More about these companies in my -- the rest of my presentation.

Going to the business update on the performance for Q4 and FY '24. The external environment was generally favorable for the insurance sector. Some of the challenges to growth during the post pandemic period also receded compared to the previous year. Positive regulatory development in the insurance sector aimed at attaining insurance for all by 2047 continued in FY '24. All this created a conducive market for both the life and general insurance sector. And we remain optimistic that the industry will continue to grow given the favorable macros, regulatory changes, low penetration and relatively positive consumer segments.

Coming to BAGIC. Before I get into performance, I would mention that our claims reserving triangle and the claims rate range has been included in our investor presentation. You may note that for the last few years, we have been doing that once a year as is the practice in the market. And of the total reserve, we have had a favorable development of about 8%. BAGIC continues to be well reserved. BAGIC continues to balance growth with profitability and consistently deliver a superior combined ratio versus the industry. It continued its growth momentum, recording above market growth in Q4 as well as all of FY '24.

Headline gross domestic premium income increased 32.3% during the quarter, well above the industry, which includes private and public multi-line players growth of 10.9%. And in FY '24, its growth of 33.5% was higher than the private sector, 17.5% and the industry is 14.3%. The market share increased to 8.3% in FY '24 from 7.1% in FY '23, which is more than 100 basis points improvement. Even excluding the [indiscernible] bulky government health and crop line, the growth for BAGIC is 13.34% as compared to the previous quarter, but it's in excess of the industry growth of 11.5%. Grew by 20.4% for FY '24, excluding the standard driven businesses versus the private sector, 16.4% and the industry's 13.3%. This market-leading growth was contributed mainly by commercial, 14%; group held, 46%; retail held, 11%; and [ miscellaneous ] is 95%.

On the bottom line, the industry has been significantly impacted by nat cat events this year. And as you know, larger companies tend to have a greater exposure to cat events, especially those which have a high book of commercial and corporate businesses. We experienced 8 events, mainly: North Indian flood, flash flood, cyclone events such as cyclones [indiscernible] during the year as only one flood event in the previous year. The combined ratio for the quarter was higher at 101.6% as again, 97.3% in Q4 of FY '24. The higher ratio is on account of higher claims during the quarter. The combined ratio improved to 99.9% in FY '24 versus 100.5% in all of FY '23, notwithstanding a nat cat case of INR 118 crores, which is net of reinsurance and reinstatement premiums.

The profit after tax for the quarter has grown at a healthy level of 18% from INR 322 crores to INR 380 crores, and it was higher by 15% for the full year from INR 1,348 crores to INR 1,550 crores. The higher PAT is attributable to better investment income. Excluding the impact of nat cat claims, the growth in profit would have exceeded 20%. Growth in motor insurance during the quarter was muted. It was 9% for the year, partly because of BAGIC's tight focus on writing only preferred categories of business and in line with new auto sales growth of 10%. BAGIC continues to adopt a conservative stance on commercial vehicles underwriting. While motor still continues to dominate the business mix, other significant movements in FY '24 included significant income government health mix by 15%, decrease in crop insurance mix by 4% against the previous year attributable to more prudent selection of the areas where we wanted to participate.

In particular BAGIC continues to be conservative in writing large volume commercial vehicle insurance where the growth is only 3% for the year. The claim ratio was 70.3% in Q4 as against 66.4% in Q4 of FY '23. The claim ratio was higher than previous on account of higher claim ratio in health and motor TP segments, partly offset by lower commercial and crop claims. Claim ratio for the full year, however, at 73.8%, ex nat cats at 72.5%, was marginally better than last year at 72.9%. As we highlighted earlier, the earned premium takes time to catch up when the growth is strong, like we have seen with BAGIC. The NAP growth this quarter was 18% as against 13% in the previous quarter and 11% on a yearly basis.

Over the next 6 to 9 months, the premium that we wrote until now will get earned. However, new premium based on the growth we will achieve in FY '25 will also get that one. BAGIC's AUM, including cash crossed INR 30,000 crores during the year, growing by 12% to INR 31,196 crores as at March 31 versus INR 27,800 crores as on 31st March '23. The advanced premium from long-term policies was INR 1,829 crores at 31st March 2024, which is higher by 26% over March 2023. As we mentioned before, many of the new initiatives with BAGIC invested in over the last 18 to 24 months, including focus on smaller tier towns, distribution expansion, doing more as insurance partners and strong presence in large ticket corporate segment has resulted in this performance and will continue to contribute in the coming quarters, we hope.

BAGIC was further able to capitalize on a small -- strong presence in smaller towns and rural areas during FY '24. In a market where asset insurance is intensely price competitive, this operating result, we believe, display BAGIC's commitment to a balanced and profitable growth on the back of deep and broad distribution and prudent underwriting while focusing on best-in-class customer service. In summary, an excellent quarter for BAGIC in terms of top line growth and transaction profitability. However, reiterate that insurance is a long-term business, and we remain steadfast in our commitment to drive profitable growth with sustainable value and always prioritize the interest of our policyholders.

I will move to BALIC next. During the quarter, BALIC continued its strong market-leading growth trajectory and reported an individual rated premium growth of 17% against flat industry growth and private sector industry growth of 2%. If you recall the last year, we had a tax change where the high-ticket traditional policies were brought into the tax brackets and which resulted in a significant amount of sale in the month of March. Therefore, on the back of this high base, the growth achieved by BALIC, we believe, is quite commendable. In FY '24, IR&D grew by 21%, which is 2.5x the industry growth -- of the private industry growth and about 4x the overall industry growth, including LIC. Both in FY '24 and Q4 of FY '24, BALIC was the fastest-growing company among the top 10 private players on an IRNB basis. And the market share in individual rated new business or IRNB increased by 100 basis points from 7.6% in FY '23 to 8.6% in FY '24 among private players.

In FY '24, BALIC ran 6 private players on IRNB basis; and 4 on new business policies, number of policies under the retail regular business. Newly launched participating product life contributed INR 1,357 crores. If you recall, this product was launched in Q2 of FY '24. And in a space of 9 months, it has contributed INR 1,357 crores. It has been well received across all channels. The company's growth was secular and driven by all key channels with agency, institutional business and BALIC Direct growing at 10%, 14% and 63%, respectively, during the quarter. But more importantly, for the year, agency grew 20%, institutional business grew 17% and BALIC Direct grew 52%. This growth is despite significant onetime benefit in sales during the impact of the tax change in Q4 of FY '23.

On the back of strong real premium growth, BALIC GWP grew 17% during the quarter and 18% for the year. The consistent growth in renewal premium reflects improvement in persistency that BALIC has been driving over the last 5 years. The total number of new policies in OP for BALIC grew 22% in FY '24 to 7.4 lakhs. Again, one of the highest growth rates among the top 10 companies. During the quarter, BALIC's NBV, new business value, grew by 16% from INR 415 crores to INR 480 crores. Clearly, when they have grown better than market, they will get the benefit of operating leverage in Q4, and that is reflected in the higher growth of NBV. On a yearly basis, the NBV growth was 12%, growing from INR 950 crores to INR 1,061 crores. And if you recall, the first quarter, was a fairly weak quarter for NBV for branding. So the last 3 quarters, we have substantially made up.

Overall, the business mix for FY '24 on individual weighted business was par 27%; non-par, 24%; term, 4%; annuity, 6%; and unit, 39%. This balance, we believe, is a very strong benefit that BALIC continues to drive. BALIC has continued to focus scaling up agency and direct channel through investing in people, processes and also institutionalizing on the variabilization of agency costs through low-cost models. It has led to BALIC building up one of the largest agency channels in the private life insurance space with more than 1.5 lakh agents. BALIC is also building on the data and analytics for direct sales through upsell and cross-sell initiatives. It has led to BALIC present now in 313 cities, which separate vertical for certain 3 segments of customers.

On the institutional business side, the company continues to expand its network of partners and grow existing partnerships. BALIC now has a reasonably large number of bancassurance tie-up help to reduce our consequential drivers for Axis Bank. On the persistency front, there has been improvement across most cohorts with 13-month persistence ending at 84% and the 61st month persistency at 32%. Profit after tax, as I mentioned earlier, grew from INR 26 crores in Q4 to INR 106 crores in Q4 of FY '24, and BALIC had a growth of 44% PAT for the year from INR 390 crores to INR 563 crores. This was supported by higher-than-expected release from the past book and better mortality experience, partly offset by higher new business on account of business growth. BALIC ended the year with an AUM of INR 1,09,829 crores. Overall, another good balanced quarter for BALIC.

Finally, as you know, both the insurance companies are among the most solvent, BALIC with 432% and BAGIC with 349% and hence are well poised to weather any external adversity. Given the excess capital, we have been paying out dividends BAGIC and BALIC for the last few years. And this year, the dividend has been increased from the previous year. BAGIC has declared INR 661 crores of dividend with a BFS share of INR 489 crores and BALIC has declared a dividend of INR 497 crores with the BFS' own share of INR 368 crores. BFL has announced a dividend of INR 2,228 crores, of which INR 1,144 crores will be for BSI, subject to approval by shareholders.

Over the last 7 years, BAGIC has declared a total dividend of INR 1,605 crores and BALIC a dividend of INR 1,821 crores. And we have been reinvesting the dividends into our emerging businesses, Bajaj Finserv Direct, Bajaj Finserv Health and the AMC.

Let me move to the lending businesses, BFL and BHFL, although we already briefly touched upon the results and the results that are already available in the public domain. A good quarter for BFL on our growth metrics, AUM, customer acquisition, portfolio metrics and operating efficiencies. The rural B2C business growth continue to be [ rooted ] at 6%, which was planned due to the elevated risk and which has been called out by Rajeev Jain in his investor calls over the last 2 quarters. Profit after tax grew 21% during the quarter and 26% during the year. Customer acquisition, 32.3 lakh new customers, dispersed 3.6 crores and added a record 1.45 crore new customers in FY '24, the highest ever until date, as against 2,496 crores new loans in FY '23, which is a growth of 20%. The customer franchise is very strong at 8.6 crores, while cross-sell franchise itself has crossed the milestone of INR 5 crore.

The Bajaj Finserv app now has [ 24 ] crore net users as against a 3.5 crore users as of 31st March '23. And the AUM ended at INR 3,30,615 crores on a consolidated basis. The risk metrics continue to hold well, gross NPA, net of 0.85% and [indiscernible], respectively. BFL holds a management macroeconomic overlay of INR 300 crores. And during the quarter, we utilized INR 127 crores towards strengthening GCL model and INR 163 crores towards loan losses in for reserves. We have ended the quarter with a consolidated PAT of INR 3,825 crores. The capital adequacy ratio remained very strong at 22.52% with 21.5% in Tier 1 capital. This was helped by the capital [indiscernible].

Our housing finance company, the 100% mortgage subsidiary of BFL, continues to do extremely well. AUM grew 32% to INR 91,374 crores. Profit after tax grew 26% to INR 381 crores in Q4 and for the year at INR 1,731 crores by -- it grew by 38%. Capital adequacy ratio stood at 21.28 with 20.67 being clear. GNPA and NPA were again very strong, 0.27% and 0.1%, respectively, as of March '24. And in summary, another very strong quarter for both BFL and BHFL.

Now to move on to our platform, Bajaj Finserv Direct . During the Q4 of FY '24, Bajaj market attracted 72 lakh consumers on its digital platform, of which 1.6 lakh game customers as against 84 lakh and 1.9 lakh customers in Q3 of FY '24. BFL lending unsecured, secured both BFL and partnership disbursement for the quarter stood at INR 1,636 crores at again INR 1,664 crores. The card sourcing was lower at 30,673 versus 36,603. As you are aware, and we had called out earlier, Bajaj market had voluntary decided to stop sourcing EMI cards for the RBI on BFL after correction of the deficiencies pointed out, BFL has already applied to RBI review. And as soon as RBI allows, Bajaj market will resume sale.

During the quarter, Bajaj Finserv AMC launched 2 new passive equity funds and 1 large cat fund. They attracted good investor interest. We ended the year at INR 9,552 crores of AUM, of which, INR 300 crores INR 400 crores was on equity-oriented funds. Bajaj Finserv Health carried out 9.3 lakh health transactions, having 2.48 lakh plus monthly active users. For the quarter, EBH had1 8.98-plus paying users, which is almost double that of Q4 of FY '23 with 7.71 lakh users having renewable products. As Devang mentioned earlier, these are 2 key metrics which is the paying users and the payment -- number of payments we make. And the third metric is, of course, how many as renewable products. Bajaj Finserv Health also expanded its provider network, which now includes 1,17,000-plus doctors, 5,400-plus touch points and 2,250 plus hospitals.

With that, I come to end of my opening remarks. Before we open for questions, concerning the paucity of time, I would request the audience to kindly keep the questions brief so that we can cover more queries during this call. With this, I invite questions from the audience. Okay. Thank you.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of [ Werner Mukerji ] from B&K Securities.

[Unknown Analyst]

A couple of questions from my side. Firstly, I wanted to ask us the BAGIC segments. So I think when we look at how the exit growth rates updated the different segment, I think retail lines are looking slower. Much of the growth has come on the back of commercial lines and tender-driven businesses. So just wanted to understand, first of all, what kind of challenges or enhance cost of acquisition, et cetera, you're seeing in the industry in these retail lines, which is preventing you to accelerated growth. For example, motor OD loss ratio, FIC for the full year is around 64%. So would it be the range you'd like to operate at? Or can there be further headroom for growth in this? So if you can give us some sense on how do you -- which areas you want to focus on in FY '25 to drive growth in the GI business? That is the first question.

And also I wanted to hear your comments on the higher expense ratio that we reported for this quarter in BAGIC. And on BALIC, I wanted to understand that for FY '24, the 37th month persistency seems to have recorded a drop. So what has happened? Because of which in this 4 or 2 years in a channel. And also, if you can give some idea about how should we think about VNB growth and margin for FY '25?

[Sanjivnayan Bajaj, executive]

Thank you for that. I think, as you know, on the VNB margins or combined ratios, we do not give guidance, particularly in insurance where nobody can predict when catastrophes will happen or what kind of yield curve movements will happen. But if I were to summarize your question, the first one was the outlook on retail growth and whether it was a bit slower than what you anticipated in Q4, the expense ratio in BAGIC, why it was higher in Q4. In BALIC, you wanted to know the outlook on VNB growth. Directionally, I think Tarun or Nitin will provide that. And lastly, why there was a drop in the 37-month persistency. So I now hand it over to Tapan first to take the question on the motor growth and remain support to the expense ratio. And then followed by Tarun and Nitin .

[Tapan Singhel, executive]

So thank you for the question. See at Bajaj, philosophy has been very clear from day 0. Wherever we see opportunity to grow, we grow that. And if you look at a line of business, we're still one of the large players in the Indian market. If the opportunity do not seem as per our pricing or as per our comfort of combined ratio, then we slow down. Because this is cyclic in nature business. It's not something which has always been constant. So if you watch over long period of time, there's always cyclic. So opportunity again comes in and then we again grow and take up dates. But we will never be aggressive when the market is not conducive for high growth. Q4 normally, if you look at most of the years, retail gets aggressive in Q4 because the way the generation business is structured, a lot of commercial business happens in April, first April is the date and then is September, which will be there.

While if you look at towards BFL, it's mostly retail business with the aggression comes in. That is how the GI business gets structured. So typically, in Q4, in retail, the aggression of the market increases beyond our comfort level, and that's why you'll always see a bit of a slowdown in Q4. But again, the next quarter typically as the cycle as we have seen in the past, the next quarter again gets much more easier. So it's a natural cyclic performance. So there's nothing in terms of that we are -- our strategy slowing down or looking at wherever operating concern. And we saw opportunity like you rightly mentioned, commercial. We did that. We saw [indiscernible]. We look at our Q4 growth, it's over 30%, much over the market growth of 12% and Q4. So it's about close to 2 to 3x, exactly a much higher growth than the markets. So the company. I would say, has done very well in terms of Q4 growth, in terms of the posting merits. Retail, obviously, as I mentioned to you, over aggressive, then we tend to slow down. That's the answer on how it look at. Over to you, Raman, in terms of taking the other questions. .

[Ramandeep Sahni, executive]

Yes. I'll take the question on the higher cost ratios. Se, normally, if you see, if I compare the cost ratio with the whole year, it looks a little higher. But if you compare it with the same period last year, quarter 4 and quarter 4, there's hardly any delta. It's 31.3% versus 30.9% last year. So structurally, actually, nothing has changed. What is really just moved up. So OpEx, there is actually no change, but a bit of higher commissions in quarter 4 has actually inflated the overall cost ratios for the company. And that is cyclical, because if you look at our growth in quarter 4, it's largely coming from some profitable lines where the commission rates are higher. So that's the only reason the growth is higher -- sorry, the cost ratio is higher. But like I said, if you look at it on a totality basis for the full year, we're actually 1.5% lower compared to last year. I hope that...

[Tapan Singhel, executive]

In terms of the expense of management, I think the rates come out, Our company basically within that. The regulator is the management. And if you see most of the companies, more than half of the companies have been not breaching that. Our company would be close to 22.5 [indiscernible] in terms of where we stack up. So if you look at in the industry, we will be one of the most efficient companies in expense of management, which has come together. And you compare that, that would be among one of the best in the industry. Raman, if you want to sum answer to that, .

[Ramandeep Sahni, executive]

Yes, you're right. The actual number is 22.7%, which gets reported to IDA. So we are well within the regulatory norms.

[Unknown Analyst]

Just a quick follow-up on the first one, sir. We were getting feedback that the competitive intensity in the motor OD side is possibly seeing some better than -- do you also see similar trends? Or in the micro markets which you are focusing on? .

[Tapan Singhel, executive]

See, if you look at it, the worry for the industry is TP. There has not been a TP price hike for some years. And in TP claims, the inflation. I think -- and motor TP prospects a reasonable sum of business. So if you get into a guarantee of it, you'll actually see where the volume is. OD is fine. If you have lots of, let's say, flooding like [indiscernible], flooding happens, Delhi flooding happens or something goes beyond that is there. But if you look at, again, the accidents on highway, there was a dip after COVID. But now if you look at the frequency has again moved up from it. So if you study the C4 parameters, then you cannot figure out the answer that you've been asking for on a regular basis. So that is what we should be looking at. But now the frequency actually moved up. .

[Unknown Analyst]

Sure, sir. Understood. .

[Unknown Executive]

Okay. On the Bajaj Allianz Life side, there were 2 specific questions, one of the 37th month bucket and the VNB growth. Let me answer the first one first. In 3 months, it's you've correctly pointed out, it has been lower. It's a fact which is visible. This is a continuation of one specific bucket of 1 specific partner with a significant share yet in the business, where that bucket has not fully performed as the way we would have, rather have it perform. And this will, of course, now study itself. The 37 months will study itself going forward. But we do expect that maybe a 49 months, see, every year this moves on. from 49 month would be impacted slightly. But of course, as a company, we are a lot larger in terms of size, dependencies and partners is getting is lesser. So this we will be able to rectify as we go. And overall, our persistency, as you know, for all buckets has been up, and directionally, that shall remain. 13 does 84.3, [indiscernible] 22.7, 49 is up to 64. And the 61st is first time upwards of 50, 52. And these are all moving up only.

In terms of VNB margin last, I should correctly answer that we will not ever give a forward-looking statement. But directionally, I can tell you, you know about the history of the company. The company has had a turnaround in the last for 6 years. And we've moved into positive territory on margin about 5, 6 years back. And the direction is only up as we now have a steady scale, steady product mix, cost efficiencies are now getting thrown up. And for the last 2 to 3 years, there was a disproportionate amount of money getting invested in new partnerships that we were investing in. Hence, head on the story will remain positive. Of course, the -- as [ Sreeni ] also pointed out, you can't be 100% sure about the way the yield curve is going to be. The nonpower funds particularly get impacted by that. So largely, these are the reasons where we will see a trend going up. But of course, we shall not be able to give any forward-looking statement. Vipin, is there anything you'd like to add? .

[Unknown Executive]

No. I think just on the persistency, to reemphasize, if you see previous year, 25 months was down by about 2% or it's a flow like Tarun mentioned. So last year, it was 25th month. This year, it was 37 and next year, probably 49 may have. So it's a book we acquired about 3 years back, and that's [indiscernible]. But otherwise, we don't see any steps on our persistency, it's been improving.

[Unknown Analyst]

Understood. Just a quick follow-up. Is this on a savings? Sorry, sir, your voice was not audible.

[Sanjivnayan Bajaj, executive]

Yes. Can we move on? .

[Operator]

The next question is from the line of Madhukar Ladha from Nuvama Health. .

[Madhukar Ladha, analyst]

Congratulations on a group set of numbers. . So 2 quick questions for me. One on the motor side, I noticed that there have been some good reserve releases for [ battery ] in the latter years. So if you look at sort of FY '21 onwards, the reserve releases have been quite good. So can you sort of explain what's happening over there? And second, on life insurance, there is some chatter that the regulator is reconsidering on the surrender charges regulation. So they have floated a draft and then going back a large part of it. And now I think there is some talk of again implementing maybe part of it or in overlap, I don't know. So I'd like to get some color from you on the assets as well. These would be my 2 questions. .

[S. Sreenivasan, executive]

Yes. Tapan, would you like to take the question on mortar ? .

[Tapan Singhel, executive]

Yes, I'll take that, Sreeni. . So if you look -- yes, you're absolutely right that the reserve releases are more in the recent years. And that's what naturally happens. If you look at the TP claims, the way it works, most of the claims reporting happens in the 4-year period. And that's why if you see that the entire development is almost done in 4 to 5 years. So whenever you'll see releases happening, hence, tend to happen nearer which is less than 4-year period. And that's what you are seeing in our trends also. So it all depends on how the development happens and our experience has been in 4 to 5 years. about 70%, 80% of the claims get integrated. And that's how the release is happening more in the recent past.

[S. Sreenivasan, executive]

If I were to add to Raman's statement, if you look at the paid to ultimate, we probably have one of the lowest among the banks even after 5 or 6 years on the motor TP book. So we are fairly comfortable there.

[Madhukar Ladha, analyst]

And other life insurance space, that question...

[S. Sreenivasan, executive]

At a macro speculation, we'll wait to see more hard action from the regulator. We do not comment on that.

[Sanjivnayan Bajaj, executive]

It can change, they will keep discussing. If it's generally out in the public domain in terms of an expose draft or regulation, then we will discuss that. .

[Madhukar Ladha, analyst]

Right. I have 1 more follow-up. Can you split the loss ratios between [indiscernible], health and government? And what's been sort of comment a little bit on the recent government; held performance because you've written a lot of business over there

[Tapan Singhel, executive]

We don't give micro breakups, because that's part of our business strategy. .

[Madhukar Ladha, analyst]

But some direction comments, what are you seeing in the government side .

[Unknown Executive]

No comment.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Supratim Datta from Ambit Capital. .

[Supratim Dutta, analyst]

So the first question that I had was on the motor TP front, like we pointed out that we haven't had a price increase. However, this year, we have seen the loss ratios improving at an industry level there. So what would be the trigger to get a price increase? Do you see scope for price increase in this segment this year? Or that is also looking unlikely? If you could throw some color on that, that would be very helpful. .

[Unknown Executive]

Okay. So for motor TP, the way you look at it is like my answer previously. It takes 3 to 4 years to develop. So if you try [indiscernible] see which on debt coming. I think when you start putting that to see that the same price would sustain in the future or not because it's a long-tail business. In a short tail business, it's pretty more comfortable to look at pricing in a year's time. By long-tail business, we have to put a lot of [ factors ] 3 years from now or 4 years from now, will this price be suppletion or how it move it. That is how this gets done by actually and it's presented. What you look at is the book as of today. I think that is where this comes -- and that's why previously COVID [indiscernible] what happened.

If I look at the results in terms of what is declared by national highway, then I see the frequency. Its moved up. So these are parameters in which all this vision gets taken. But this is more complex than I told you. We just try to simply tell you how it moves up. So a lot of impact that you see is post COVID, the drop in frequency, which actually happened there. And that's why you see this impact coming in currently. But more or less, impact of that is getting over. And in the future, there would be a requirement of a price hike is what the industry feels and is represented also to the regulator.

[Supratim Dutta, analyst]

Got it. Benefit group, is this likely to win this discussion going to come through? Ideally, it comes in June, right, the price hike. .

[Tapan Singhel, executive]

Yes. Actually, now as for the -- only -- if I say the only tariff which remains today is a motor TP price. And the procedure is the industry request -- the regulator recommends the ministry and then it comes. I think that is on the persist. So difficult for me to say now is the election here going on, how it looks like.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Nischint Chawathe from Kotak Institutional Equities. .

[Nischint Chawathe, analyst]

On the motor insurance business, just trying to understand your view in terms of sustainability of the improvement in claims ratio in the OD side. We think -- I mean, obviously, there was a big fall in the fourth quarter. But even if I look at the full year basis, there has been a fair amount of improvement. So do you see this sustaining, especially given the fact that you mentioned that you've seen the transportation activity picking up again?

[Unknown Executive]

So look at this, [indiscernible] only the short-term tail, which means that whatever the result, it's on your face. Immediately, you will see the impact of it. So all in OD shows that the company has been segmenting the customers right. It shows a reflection of good underwriting by the company, has been able to segment customers well. And that's why you see fall in terms of the OD ratio. Because as I mentioned, the short-term ratios will be widely able to see the impact in terms of what business you guide. And TPA is a long term, so you see the impact a bit later. Now is it sustainable? Obviously, our ambition has always been to be a good [ uniting ] company, and that has been reflecting in our combined ratio over the years now, I can say, It's not about 1 or 2 years I think if you take it back to 10, 15 years, we have had one of the best combined ratios of the industry. That's the philosophy of the company. So we keep on looking and writing very, very minutely to see how we get better at it. And that would be our focus. But how does it play out? I can't give a forward looking statement. But as a philosophy of the company, we'll continue focusing on that. .

[Nischint Chawathe, analyst]

But fair to say that you have seen competitive intensity being lower because of which I think we are able to achieve that's supporting.. .

[Tapan Singhel, executive]

Intensity is not lower. I don't agree to that. Because if you will see, let's say, if I take you back about 6, 7 years -- let me just readjust my answer. Whenever a new company comes into the market, what do they do? Which business do they get into? Let's start from here. The first business they get into is motor, any company. So there's more addition of companies, motor will always be competitive. So -- and let's say, if I take you back about 8, 10 years. Then look at the motor portfolio of different companies, what was competition or motor that different companies have and pass all today, look at the motor portfolio of each company, and maybe for 2, 3 years, take a trend and see how motor portfolio has moved up and less than the top company and the newer companies joined in.

If the motor portfolio is moving up in companies, then the competitive intensity cannot be lower. I think it's a simple database. So instead of taking into perceptions or feeling, just look at data. You'll actually was the motor portfolio and companies are moving up, which means that the companies are targeting motor more, which means that the competitive intensity is much higher.

[Nischint Chawathe, analyst]

Sure. Got it. And just on the health side, I probably missed this, but you mentioned that the increase in claims ratio over year is largely a function of change in product mix. And at the product level, you have not really seen any changes. Is that what you mentioned?

[Unknown Executive]

Yes, that is -- so let's look at how does it operate. If you see retail business, retail business has -- any business, any GI business would have 3 components. One is claim ratio, there will be commission and third would be expense ratio, right? Now expense ratio would more or less be the same for most lines of business, but it would be more in retail lines of business, lower in, let's say, GMC. Commission ratio, again, would be higher in retail lines of business because it's individual its effort to get in customers. In GMC, the commission ratio is much lower. So GMC would have a much higher claim ratio, but the overall combined ratio at a higher claim ratio may be lower or equivalent to the, let's say, retail with a lower claim ratio because of the way these things are stacked up.

So if you have written a good portfolio of GMC, then your claim ratio move up, we do not mean that a combined ratio has moved up. So typically, the way to look at it is look at the combined ratios. And that's why to answer the previous question also, just to tell you how to look at ratios. And then you get understanding. If you try to compact leadership industry in previous years, I said I don't want to answer that question on a micro level, simply because when you're doing that comparison, it does not give you how does it flow. Combined ratio is the parameter in which you look at balancing how things go. So if you look at the overall combined ratio, you would find that the company is doing very good on that.

[Nischint Chawathe, analyst]

Some of your peers who sort of have kind of reported higher claims because of high-end infectious diseases or probably to kind of...

[Unknown Executive]

I don't comment on my peers.

[Nischint Chawathe, analyst]

No, fair point. But from our point of view, that is not effective at the [indiscernible] level.

[Unknown Executive]

I can tell you about the business, I can tell you about how it looks like and what our results .

[Nischint Chawathe, analyst]

Fair point. So from our results point of view, these kind of factors have probably not affected, is that is a fair reading? .

[Unknown Executive]

Yes. I think how do you build in your business, how do you look at it? How do you get spread? How do you look at distribution? It's more complex than the simple, which is to go with. This is our go example, to give you an example, that's the flood happens in one part of the country, like, say, Bangalore had flood. You had no second floods. Now let's say, as a company, you are focused only on [indiscernible] you have a major stake there. It will really impact you very bad. I say spread us all across the country, and [indiscernible] is a small part of the portfolio. It will not affect too much. So that's why when you see a statement like this, I don't say my complete our peers that made a mistake in saying what they Are Saying. [Indiscernible] message effective on the balance of book that they have, some company would be more affected than other companies, but it all depends on how your business gets stacked up and how do you spread the risk and how do you look at it. So that's why making a comment on our statements or knowing the detail is not very fair to anybody, and that's why I don't do that.

[Operator]

The next question is from the line of Sanket Godha from Avendus Spark. .

[Sanketh Godha, analyst]

On life, I have two simple questions. One is on Axis Bank, how much it contributed in the current quarter and full year compared to previous year. And I believe the channel is becoming more and more open architecture. So to counter that challenge what we are trying to do, if I see in the fourth quarter, our direct channel has done phenomenally well. So the answer to that could be direct channel or any other channel diversification will play a role. If you can give a bit of color on it, it would be useful. That's on life.

On general insurance, I have 2 questions and 1 data keeping. One in your crop has been flat year-on-year. So we all know that every company will chase AUM as they're getting closer to FY '26. So if an means it has been flat in the current year, and we have always been a very good underwriter with the crop. So just wanted to understand that with pricing, maybe further deteriorating -- or your view on that, you see crop to come off compared to what it is today. That's one thing. And the second is on reinsurance market means last year, we all know that commercial line employ reinsurance [indiscernible]. How is the plan? How are your April renewals with respect to reinsurance market. And if it is softened, what is the likely benefit you will see through it?

And lastly, if you can tell me, NWP number for the quarter would be useful.

[Unknown Executive]

So let me start with the life insurance question. So you asked about the Axis Bank. See, that -- it's been our stated policy. You heard me consistently and we are clear about the way we're going. When we started off, Axis used to be almost 35% to 40% of our business. steadily still coming down. Last year, FY 2023, it was 25%. This year, it was 23%. In Q4, we grew the company at [ 17%. ] Axis grew by 14%, so lower with the company. So the intent is, of course -- at the same time, let me also just tell you this, that, yes, it is going to be getting into multiple architecture. But I do feel that if you look at the customer acquisition and also the current space in Axis, there is a lot more yet to be done. Despite the fact that -- we still had 28% of Axis share. despite the fact that they have their own subsidiary. And Axis grew faster than its peer banks. If you look at the numbers in the bancassurance space. So overall, it's very beneficial to access having an open architecture. And I guess that continues. .

[Sanketh Godha, analyst]

But our market in Axis has remained stable compared to last year. .

[Tarun Chugh, executive]

Sorry. Yes. So yes, it has been stable at the same level as last year. So -- but I do not expect that it will. I mean, they are adding more players, but I guess that the pie is going to get bigger, And what we do [indiscernible], that's really what we bring to the table, that people -- it's not that it will relate in business, but we also do additional business. That's the value prop. And I think that's playing out, particularly in actual bank case. And like I said, there is enough there to be done. [ Axis ] will remain a growth space. But having said that, we do not have want to have defense as they don't want to have dependency on less number of insurers, Similarly, we don't want to have our dependency on one distribution business. So the share is the share of Axis in BALIC and contribution to BALIC will come down.

Lastly, because we'll be growing -- we are growing and we will continue to grow our other businesses. Yes, BALIC Direct from a low base did very well, our fastest-growing business. There were a lot of things that we were -- we got right. We got our technology right. We got our data slicing right. We added a defense channel there. There is -- we've been able to look at the portfolio management channel, how we handle wealth, customers differently, all that, which we invested in. And I used to talk about it on our calls. All that has gone well and directionally shall remain our fastest-growing channel. Will it keep growing at the same pace, no? Will it intend to grow faster than BALIC as a company versus our peers faster than the others? Absolutely. What numbers are going to be, I can't, of course, state as of now.

What we are additionally doing is that we are adding new business models and we are adding new branches, our Tier 2, Tier 3 and even in Tier 1. So traditionally, while most companies got a significant percentage of their business from the top 10 metros or top 10 cities, BALIC share was not so. That is now falling in place, but there is still -- even in Tier 1, there is a lot of new products to date. And now that we have more and more banks, Tier 2 and 3 as well will be adding more branches. And that is going to give us a footprint, that is going to give us more agency, more business direct, more servicing capability of branches of our bank partners.

We last year have added quite a few bank partners as well. These are smaller banks. Of course, not the size of an Axis or an IBFC or Abundant for that matter, but a lot many. So that is -- all that is a steady pace it's been happening. Growth shall remain consistent and stronger than the rest of the industry that we are clear about and dependency of one channel shall be reduced, that's the stated policy of the company.

[Sanketh Godha, analyst]

Perfect. And maybe on life, on group protection, just wanted to understand your view on it. We have declined for the full year and it is muted for the quarter. So what are the course correction has to happen with respect to the product has happened, and we expect to see a revival ahead? Or you see the competitive intensity is still there and pricing is not appropriate. So you will be a little cautious in conducting that business? .

[Unknown Executive]

Sanket, so that's a good question. you're right. We did struggle this last year on group. There is more because we had dependency on only 2 or 3 partners, really. And there were a disproportionate. I say we're trying to [ ] defray retail loss. Group being a relatively smaller business for us, we -- our dependency was very high. And we directionally to have -- and 1 or 2 of our partners haven't really performed well due to various reasons which I don't need to really get into. And Q2 and Q3, as you know, we did degrow actually in group. But we are back to growth numbers in Q4. And we expect this to go ahead in a trajectory which is only positive. We're doing that by diversifying into more partners, more segments. We're already quite strong in MFI. NBFC is something that we are certainly getting stronger mortgage insurance, personal loans. There's a lot more to be done. A lot of these bank partners who are with us that's a steady place we can anyways, from liabilities also again on the asset side. So that will remain a growth engine for us. And yes, India is a competitive market. So it shall always -- I presume more business in India is easy to do. So we will keep seeing that competition growing in this space.

[Sanketh Godha, analyst]

Perfect. On general trends?

[Unknown Executive]

Yes. So on crop, if we recollect, I think -- and when we're doing crop, most questions would come that a lot of our peers will say that they will not be entering crop business, and it doesn't make sense. But I think over years, we have proved that crop business makes sense, and we have been able to work hard, deliver on the ground and being able to do the business on a profitable basis and also on scale. And as we mentioned on the philosophy, very clear. We are an underwriting company, and we do business at the price that we are comfortable with. If the price is not too a comfort, we are very happy to let go our business. So we are never into this rush of acquiring business just for the sake of acquiring business. It has to be done sensibly.

Because it's a generational business, it's a very long-term business. It is not about 1 or 2 years. If you run this business, the view you should have is for 100 years, how does it go. And the stronger balance sheet becomes, the much better as a company, you are able to move forward, balance sheet and adding comprehensive skill set. That's what it is. So if you ride into businesses which doesn't make sense, then you spoil your balance sheet. I think that is something which one has to be very careful of what. Another company we see that. So if you look at crop, though you say it's flat, but we are still a very large player in the crop insurance business, which should be there.

But again, if the business does not make sense, we are very happy to have a smaller share. And when it makes sense, we'll again move up. We never have made any statement that we are walking out of any the business or getting to business. You will never hear from that. We are into all lines of businesses, and we do into all challenge of business, we are across the country into every nook and corner of the country. And as we said, we do business at a price that we just serve our customers well. And if you see the [ ID ] figure in terms of ratio, we are one of the lowest in terms of given ratio also in the country in spite of having such a large amount of customer base, which would be there. So on crop, this is our philosophy, and this is how it will also continue .

[Sanketh Godha, analyst]

But will you be confident to achieve a similar number? Because I know you likely said, many people will be chasing that business now. So...

[Tapan Singhel, executive]

If the price is not right, as I said, I'm very happy to let go of my market share. But if the price is right, again. So I only -- it's a tender business. So the next tender, it depends on how the pricing goes, and that's how it will be. So how can you -- my confidence is only one thing that Yes. [indiscernible].

[Sanketh Godha, analyst]

Because of the tender [indiscernible] government health just wanted to understand, you did very well in the current year. Update means given that scale is very big now, you will repeat it, given -- if you did not disclose the experience there. But looking at your experience, whether you will repeat that business in the next year? Or how is your outlook there? .

[Tapan Singhel, executive]

So if you look at it not -- again, new to us. That is the point I've been saying. Commentary we have done in the past also. We have done for [ Jammu and Kashmir ]. In the past, we've done for Gujarat also. We have done for West Bengal also. I think if I remember right, we did for [indiscernible] also. That is not that new to us. And wherever the pricing is right that we do, is not right, will not [ close ] in the past. Also at times some years we have seen good governmental business. Some years, we have not good governmental business. It just depends that at what price point do we get it. So on tender business, for me to continually say that, yes, we will write it would be wrong. Because, as I said, that we are right at the price that we are comfortable with. And on that price, if we get it, we write it, and we are -- will be doing this business, yes, we will do in this business. There are years when the business pricing is not right, those years will not find us. But if you look in the past also you find that [indiscernible] has been doing government has -- it's nothing new that this is the first time we return the government [indiscernible] .

[Sanketh Godha, analyst]

Got it. And on the [ reinsurance ] market, can comment? .

[Tapan Singhel, executive]

Yes. On the reinsurance market, if you look at it, our capacity now is the biggest in the Indian market, amongst all companies, be it public sector or private. We have the biggest fire capacity. We are the biggest engineering capacity because we are a serious player in the commercial lines of business. And to the question you asked on April 1, it did go pretty decent for us in terms of April 1 also because of the [ capacity ] that we have. Large risks require a good capacity and our capacity is built by some of the top reinsurers of the world. It is -- and minus the Indian reinsurers, I think, which we have to write in order, all our reinsurer and above rated. So typically, that is how we have one of the finest reinsurance capturing in the market, and that will obviously help us write commercial lines of businesses.

[Sanketh Godha, analyst]

Got it. And if you can give me a [ NBP ] number for the quarter, that will be useful. .

[Unknown Executive]

Yes. Sanketh, it's INR 2,462.

[Operator]

The next question is from the line of Nidhesh from Investec. .

[Nidhesh Jain, analyst]

My question is in life insurance. How are the trends on segmental margins and how are the trends on the company intensity in terms of commission payout or IRR or pricing on the production side that we are seeing in the marketplace?

[Tarun Chugh, executive]

I'll give it to [ Vitin ] for margins. On commissions, I just broadly take it. See, you'll see that the commission ratios for all players are looking higher. But largely, it was really truing up of all the marketing efforts that we were making, all reported in the same. As commission we're payment directly, we're not [indiscernible] vendors and all of that. We're directly giving it to the -- all the marketing that are being done by the banks themselves. So largely, while the number will look going up versus last year, the good thing is that the life insurance sector has been steady. And we do expect that while there will always remain pressure on commissions and payouts on wholesale distributors. Lastly, as we're getting scale and the brand is getting stronger and stronger, we will be -- keep a steady number there. Let me hand it over to Vipin to answer the margin question. .

[Unknown Executive]

So on the margin, like we mentioned in the beginning, our NBV has had a healthy growth. We have seen efficiencies also kicking in. But what we have to understand and like I think you are also indicating, it's a competitive space. Their interest rates play a significant growth in the way the products are priced and the way customers look at it. So it's a place which is competitive. I think we choose to play to our strength. We don't necessarily [ compel ] all players on the pricing. I think so that's where we are. And in terms of, like I said, margins, while the margin that reported has a lot of noise because the group business gets reflected there. But if you look at it in terms of NBV, I think that gives you a better picture. And margins have been getting better and seeing the benefits of scale as we are growing. So I think that's where we are. .

[Nidhesh Jain, analyst]

But on a segmental basis, are the margins steady or they have reduced [indiscernible] savings transactions?

[Unknown Executive]

I would generally say cross segments, our margins have been largely getting better. We don't specifically talk about segmental margins. But on an overall basis, I would say across segments, we are seeing stable to improving markets.

[Operator]

As that was the last question from the participants. I now hand the conference over to Mr. [ Adesh ] from JM Financial for closing comments. Over to you, sir. .

[Unknown Analyst]

Thank you to all the participants for joining on the call. And a special thanks to the management of Bajaj Finserv for allowing us to host the call. Thank you.

[Sanjivnayan Bajaj, executive]

Thank you. .

[Operator]

Thank you. On behalf of JM Financial, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.