Bajaj Finserv Ltd

NSE:BAJAJFINSV

Earnings Call Analysis

Strong Q1 FY '25 Results with Notable Growth in Divisions

Bajaj Finserv demonstrated a robust Q1 FY '25 with a 35% increase in total income to INR 31,480 crores. Consolidated profit after tax rose by 10% to INR 2,138 crores. Bajaj Allianz General Insurance (BAGIC) led with a 24% growth in gross written premium, reaching INR 4,761 crores, and a 39% increase in profit after tax to INR 576 crores. Bajaj Allianz Life Insurance (BALIC) saw a 24% rise in gross premium to INR 5,018 crores, though profit after tax was down 37% to INR 97 crores. Emerging businesses, including Bajaj Finserv Health, scaled significantly.

Strong Consolidated Financial Performance in Q1 FY '25

Bajaj Finserv delivered a robust financial performance in Q1 FY '25, with consolidated total income surging by 35% to INR 31,480 crores. The consolidated profit after tax rose by 10% to INR 2,138 crores. Excluding volatile unrealized mark-to-market gains, the consolidated profit after tax was INR 2,122 crores, up by 8% from the previous year. Notably, this quarter's performance was affected by some unique, non-recurring items that slightly dampened profit growth by 7%.

Impressive Growth in Bajaj Allianz General Insurance (BAGIC) Results

BAGIC exhibited an impressive 24% growth in gross written premium, reaching INR 4,761 crores. Removing large tender-driven crop and government health businesses, growth was still a robust 22%. Profit after tax increased significantly by 39% to INR 576 crores, supported by better underwriting results and higher profits on sale of investments. However, the combined ratio stood at 103.7%, influenced by a few large commercial claims. BAGIC's underwriting profit was INR 16 crores, showcasing the company's ability to maintain profitability amid challenging conditions.

Bajaj Allianz Life Insurance (BALIC) Faces Profitability Strain Despite Strong Growth

BALIC reported a notable 24% growth in gross written premium amounting to INR 5,018 crores. The individual rated new business grew by 26%, significantly outperforming the market. Despite these promising figures, profit after tax decreased by 37% to INR 97 crores due to higher new business strain and changes in product mix. Nevertheless, the new business value showed an 11% increase to INR 104 crores. The company's persistency improved, with a notable 13-month persistency at 85%.

Rising Star in Lending: Bajaj Finance Limited (BFL)

BFL continued its growth trajectory with a 24% increase in consolidated net total income, reaching INR 8,365 crores. Profit after tax rose by 14% to INR 3,912 crores, indicating solid financial health with an ROE of 19.86%. BFL also saw a customer acquisition of 44.7 lakh new customers in Q1 FY '25, emphasizing its expansive reach and growing market presence. The company's AUM grew 31% beyond INR 350,000 crores.

Strategic Developments and Future Outlook

Key strategic developments included BHFL filing a Draft Red Herring Prospectus for an upcoming IPO and Bajaj Finserv Health acquiring Vidal Healthcare, enhancing its service offerings. BAGIC signed up with Hero Motors, a significant move that could yield long-term benefits. Furthermore, BALIC expanded its bancassurance ties with Federal Bank and Yes Bank, potentially mitigating concentration risks. Moving forward, Bajaj Finserv remains focused on sustainable growth and profitability while adapting to market dynamics and regulatory changes.

Earnings Call Transcript 2025-Q1

[Operator]

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q1 FY '25 Earnings Conference Call for Bajaj Finserv Limited, hosted by JM Financial. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded.

I now hand the conference over to Mr. Raghvesh. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

[Unknown Attendee]

Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to the Q1 FY '25 earnings conference call for Bajaj Finserv Limited. First of all, I would like to thank the management of Bajaj Finserv for giving us this opportunity to host the call. As always, we'll have opening comments from the management team, post which we'll open the floor for Q&A.

From the management side today, we have Mr. S. Sreenivasan, CFO, Bajaj Finserv; Mr. Tapan Singhel, CEO, Bajaj Allianz General Insurance Company; Mr. Tarun Chugh, CEO of Bajaj Allianz Life Insurance; Mr. Ramandeep Singh Sahni, CFO of the General Insurance Business; Mr. Vipin Bansal, CFO of the Life Insurance business; Mr. Ashish Panchal, CEO of Bajaj Finserv Direct; and Mr. Devang Mody, CEO of Bajaj Finserv Health.

With that, I would like to hand over the floor to Mr. Sreenivasan for his opening comments. Over to you, sir. Thank you.

[S. Sreenivasan, executive]

Thank you. Welcome, everybody, to the conference call to discuss the results of Bajaj Finserv Limited for Q1 of FY '25. As before, in this call, we will largely be concentrating on the consolidated results as well as the results of our insurance operations to Bajaj Allianz General Insurance BAGIC and Bajaj Allianz Life Insurance BALIC, and where material, the standalone results of our company, BFS.

Bajaj we'll also be covering our emerging businesses, which include Bajaj Finserv Direct, Bajaj Finserv Health. However, if there are any high-level questions on Bajaj Finance Limited BFL, we would be glad to take that since they've already had its conference call yesterday. We will not be taking any questions on the status of Allianz's stake in our insurance companies.

Any statements that may look like forward-looking statements are just estimates and do not constitute an assurance or indication of any future performance result.

A word on Ind AS. As required by regulation in Bajaj Finserv, we prepare our financials in compliance with the Indian accounting standards. The insurance companies are not yet fully covered under Ind AS, particularly Ind AS 117 is not in operation. That will change the way insurance results are measured by both life and general insurance businesses.

However, for the purpose of consolidation, both BAGIC and BALIC provided non-Ind AS -- provide Ind AS compliant financial statements, largely focusing on the rest of the Ind AS. And the stand-alone numbers of BAGIC and BALIC report are as per the Indian GAAP applicable to them.

Our results, the press release accompanying the results and our investor deck have been uploaded on our website today morning.

I would like to draw your attention to the newly revamped investor deck with more disclosures. We do hope you appreciate this and look forward to your feedback.

Let me start with the key highlights of Q1 FY '25. Q1 FY '25 was a strong quarter for growth across all our major businesses. Risk metrics, however, varied across segments and our company's focused on balancing risk with growth. Overall, I would say it was a mixed quarter.

Bajaj Finserv's consolidated profit after tax for Q1 FY '25 was INR 2,138 crores, which is 10% higher than the previous quarter. Excluding the volatile unrealized mark-to-market gains of BAGIC and BALIC, the consolidated profit after tax was INR 2,122 crores, which is up 8% over the same quarter of the previous year.

The lower growth impact in the current quarter at a consolidated basis is -- also has the following items. In the previous year, Bajaj Finance had raised capital through qualified institutional placement post this, the BFS shareholding in BFL is reduced to 51.34% from 52.49%. This has impacted consolidated profit by INR 45 crores.

You may recall that Bajaj Finserv has also subscribed in the form of a preferential issue, which is to be converted into shares within -- by May 2025. At which time, the share should further go up by about 25 basis points.

Cumulative losses from emerging businesses of Bajaj Finserv Health, Bajaj Finserv Direct and Bajaj AMC were INR 119 crores as against INR 82 crores in Q1 FY '25 -- FY '24 as the businesses are trying to achieve scale. These are within our annual operating plan. And as you know, we continue to invest in these businesses for achieving scale and to achieve the objectives for which they are set out.

As mentioned in the BFL's investor call in Q1 FY '24, Bajaj Housing Finance had a onetime deferred tax liability reversal of INR 73 crores, which we doubt repeat this year. This impacted consolidated profit by INR 38 crores, profit after tax. Together, these items reduced by year-on-year percentage in the consolidated profit after tax by 7% in Q1 FY '25. And it is our hope that some of these items will not recur being of a onetime nature.

Coming to BAGIC, recorded market-leading growth of 24% in gross written premium touching INR 4,761 crores. And even excluding the bulky tender-driven crop and government health business growth was strong at 22%. Its profit after tax increased by 39%. BALIC continues to record market-leading growth of 26% in individual rated new business and its net new business value grew by 11% in the quarter. BFL resumed sanction and disbursal of loans under the e-comm and Insta EMI cards after the RBI released the embargo and the issuance of -- this happened on May 2, 2024.

It's BFL's quarterly consolidated profit after tax was higher by 14%. BHFL, the housing finance subsidiary of BFL has filed a Draft Red Herring Prospectus on June 8, 2024, with SEBI and stock exchanges for a potential IPO of equity shares and is awaiting clearance. We would not, therefore, be able to take some questions on BHFL.

Bajaj Finserv Health successfully completed acquisition of Vidal Healthcare, along with all necessary approvals. The capital has been infused in the first quarter and the post-acquisition integration work has commenced.

Now coming to the highlights of our consolidated financial results, which have been put up in our press release. Consolidated total income was up 35% at INR 31,480 crores, consolidated profit after tax, as I mentioned earlier, is up 10% to INR 2,138 crores.

BAGIC recorded top line growth of 24% at INR 4,761 crores. Profit after tax increased by INR 576 crores and the ROE on an annualized basis was 21.3%. The combined ratio, as reported under the IRDA's guidelines is 103.7% versus 100.7%, largely because of some large commercial claims. However, on a pure NEP basis, on the basis of net earned premium, the company had an underwriting profit of INR 16 crores and a combined ratio below 100%.

BALIC recorded top line growth of 24% at INR 5,018 crores on gross written premium. And the individual rated new business, as I mentioned earlier, was again up significantly above market and the private sector. The profit after tax was a 37% decrease at INR 97 crores versus INR 155 crores. And as you are aware, in the life insurance business, higher growth results in a higher new business trend, and therefore, there will be a strain under statue 3 profit as we call it.

The new business value was INR 100 -- INR 104 crores versus INR 94 crores in the previous year's first quarter, which is an 11% increase. BFL recorded a 24% increase in consolidated net total income and a 14% increase in consolidated profit after tax with an ROE of 19.86%.

Let me start with BAGIC now. BAGIC continues to balance growth with profitability and consistently delivers a superior overall performance versus the industry. BAGIC continued its growth momentum, recording above market growth in Q1 FY '25, growing at double the pace of the industry, 24% as against 12%. Its market share increased to 6.5% from 6% in Q1 of FY '24.

The growth is largely attributable to commercial lines at 19%, health at 48%, personal accident at 25% and miscellaneous at 73%. The combined ratio, as I said earlier, was 103% on account of higher claim ratio. There is also an element of higher seeding, including seeding of a passbook, which has reduced the net return premium for the quarter. This is a one-off adjustment, which is not expected to occur at the same level in the subsequent quarters.

The underwriting profit was INR 16 crores. And for your information, for the year FY '24, the underwriting losses for the industry were INR 29,620 crores. And for the private sector, it was INR 10,760 crores as per the public disclosures. So it is in the context of this that the underwriting profit of BAGIC has to be seen.

Aided by better underwriting result and higher profit on sale of investment, the profit after tax for Q1 FY '25 increased by 39% to INR 576 crores versus INR 415 crores in Q1 FY '24. Both insurance business growth was muted due to BAGIC's tight focus on writing only preferred categories of business, particularly in the case of commercial vehicles, BAGIC continues to take a cautious stance and is not growing that line of business, lower new vehicle registrations in Q1 and the base impact of Q1 FY '24 also contributed to some extent for the muted growth of motor insurance.

The subsequent quarters as the BAGIC continues to balance growth and profitability, it will continue to seek opportunities to grow.

In the case of the 2-wheelers, BAGIC has signed up with Hero Motors in Q1 of FY '25, which as you know, over the last 20 years was not a tie that was with BAGIC. We believe this can add significant value going forward. While motor still continues to dominate the business, the other significant improvements in movements in Q1 FY '25 include increasing the health portfolio in the mix by 5%.

Overall claim ratio increased to 77.1% versus 74.3%. The increase in claim ratio is mainly attributable to a few large property and liability claims. We do not believe such claims are recurring in nature, but it so happened in the Q1 of the year, but hopefully, they will not recur in the next remaining 3 quarters.

BAGIC's AUM, including cash increased by 11% to INR 31,651 crores as on June 30, 2024, versus INR 28,611 crores. BAGIC continues to drive the team of carrying the viewers on the foundation of customer obsession through innovations and customer experience accordingly. BAGIC continues to have the lowest grievance ratio in the industry consistently year-on-year.

Many of the initiatives in BAGIC -- in which BAGIC invested in the last 18 to 24 months, which includes largely also the focus on smaller tier towns, distribution expense and doing more with bancassurance partners and strong presence in large ticket corporate segment continues to be monitored closely, and we expect will continue to contribute in the coming quarters to both growth and profitability. These are all long-term initiatives, and BAGIC has calibrated growth in this for the quarter, especially in the motor segment.

In a market where asset insurance is intensely price competitive, where incidents of frauds are high, and where the market often goes into irrational pricing, this operating result, we believe, displays BAGIC's commitment to a balanced, profitable and sustainable growth on the back of a deep and broad distribution and prudent underwriting while focusing on best-in-class customer service.

In summary, a solid result from BAGIC in terms of top line growth and strong profitability metrics, much or reiterate that insurance is a long-term business, and we remain steadfast in our commitment to drive profitable growth, create sustainable value and always prioritize the interest of our policyholders.

Let me move to BALIC next. BALIC continued its strong market-beating growth trajectory and reported an individual rated new business premium growth of 26% against the industry growth of 20% and the private industry growth of 24%. Its market share in IRNB terms increased from 8.9% to 9% in Q1 FY '25. BALIC was right fit among private players on IRNB basis; and fourth on retail regular new business policies in Q1.

The company's growth was secular and driven by all key channels with agency growing 15%, institutional business growing 27% and BALIC Direct growing 75%. On the back of continued strong renewal premium growth of 30%, BALIC GWP grew 24% during the quarter. The consistent growth in renewal premium reflects the improvement in persistency year-on-year that BALIC has been displaying over the last 5 years.

In terms of new policies, BALIC grew 8%, and the number of policies in Q1 FY '25 was 1.55 lakhs. During the current quarter, BALIC's NBV, as I mentioned earlier, grew by 11% and the growth in NBV is mainly due to high business growth and change in the channel distribution mix.

Overall, in terms of product mix, it was 23% Par, 19% non-Par savings, 6% term, 5% annuity and 47% from ULIP. We have seen across the market, all companies showing a higher proportion of ULIP because of the strong performance of equity markets. And therefore, this quarter has seen a higher proportion of ULIP for us as well. BALIC has been increasing its focus on protection business with 5-year CAGR of group protection business at 10% and retail protection at 91%.

During the quarter, the Retail Protection business grew 30% on a Q-o-Q basis. BALIC has been scaling up agency in the direct channel through investing in people, processes and deepening existing channels. It has led to BALIC building up one of the largest agency channels in the private life insurance space with 1.5 lakh agents. BALIC is also building on the data and analytics for the direct sales through upsell and cross-sell initiatives. It has led to BALIC presence in 342 towns with dedicated verticals for different customer segments within the direct space.

On the institutional business side, the company continues to expand its network of partners and grow existing partnerships. BALIC now has a reasonably large number of bancassurance tires, which should help it reduce any concentration risk. During the quarter, BALIC has further tied up with Federal Bank and Yes Bank as a bancassurance provider.

On the persistency front, there has been improvement across most cohorts with 13-month persistency at 85% and 65-month persistency at 52%. If you do see a small blip in the 37-month persistency is largely because last year's 25th month persistency was affected due to a certain book of business that we had written a few years earlier and which we have since degrow.

The profit after tax was lower, mainly account of higher new business strain due to business growth and product mix partially offset by higher profit release from past business, shareholders' investment income and ULIP charges. BALIC ended the quarter with an AUM of INR 117,000 crores.

One of the questions investors may be wanting to know is the impact of the new surrender regulations. The changes in the product regulations require surrender values to be paid from year 1 and also define the method of calculating special surrender values. We welcome the new regulation from IRDA as it enhances the product proposition and customer point of view, and it's positive for the industry in the long run.

BALIC margins have been consistently expanding over the last 4 to 5 years from 7% in FY '19 to 15% in FY '24. The changes in regulation in the short-term may temporarily impact the margin expansion. However, given our overall growth trajectory and focus on sustainable growth, we expect to see our margins continuing to expand in the medium term. To mitigate the impact of this change, we are proactively implementing various measures, including, but not limited to product filings, cost optimization and productivity improvement. Overall, rather balanced quarter for BALIC with top line increasing at a higher rate than the market.

Finally, both insurance companies are among the most solvent in the industry with very strong solvency ratios.

Coming to our lending businesses, BFL and BHFL, a mixed quarter, good quarter on volumes, AUM, operating efficiencies, portfolio metrics and ROE, loan losses were elevated in Q1, the company resumed sanction and disbursal of loans under e-com and insta EMI card, and issuance of EMI cards after the RBI removed the restrictions on these businesses on May 2.

Profit after tax grew 14% from INR 3,437 crore to INR 3,912 crores. BFL acquired 44.7 lakh new customers in Q1 FY '25. BFL disbursed INR 1.1 crore loans and added 45 lakh new customers in Q1 FY '25 as against just INR 0.1 crore new loans in Q1 FY '23, registering a growth of about 10%.

Total customer franchise as on 30 June, 2024, stood at 8.814, while cross-sell franchise crossed a milestone of INR 5 crores and stood at INR 5.51 crores. The Bajaj Finserv app now has 5.6 crore net users as on 30th June, '24.

AUM growth was higher by 31% and that's crossed INR 350,000 crores during the quarter, the net interest income grew by 25% to INR 8,365 crores, notwithstanding the NIM compression in Q1 FY '25 of 23 basis points. The gross NPA, net NPA at 0.86% and 0.38% were in line with the previous year and among the best in the NBFC industry.

The loan losses and provisions in Q1 were elevated primarily on account of muted collection efficiencies and Stage 2 asset in Q1 went up by INR 864 crores over Q4. We have a lag taken steps to strengthen collection efficiencies, slowing down rural B2C business and other steps, which we expect will yield results in H2.

The company remains watchful across portfolios and also proactively pruning segments. BFL's capital adequacy remained strong at 21.65%. Bajaj Housing Finance, BHFL, the 100% mortgage subsidiary BFL continues to do well. It has filed a DRHP on 8 June 2024. Its AUM grew 31% to INR 97,000 crores as of 30th June, 2024, from INR 74,124 crores. This company is just 7 years old and is already close to touching a lakh of crores in this quarter -- in the coming quarter.

The profit after tax was INR 483 crores, which is 5% higher. Nevertheless, the profit before tax was up 20% because of the onetime tax adjustment, which I mentioned earlier. BHFL's capital adequacy ratio was 23.82% with Tier 1 capital at 23.2%. It continues to track excellent loan loss metrics with GNPA and NPA at 0.28% and 0.11%. In summary, another very strong quarter for BFL and BHFL.

Coming to Bajaj Finserv Health, it carried out 26.6 lakh health transactions versus 10 lakhs in Q1 FY '23, having 3.08 lakh monthly active users. Obviously, this quarter, the transactions can be also attributed to the acquisition of Vidal Healthcare during the quarter, which now -- I mean at 26.57, it stands about 9 lakh transactions a month. Bajaj Finserv Health is also expanding its provider network, which includes 107,000-odd doctors, 5,838 lab touch points and 16,813 hospitals. Vidal -- the acquisition of Vidal gave access to a substantial number of hospitals to Bajaj Finserv Health.

Utilizing the network strength, eBH is now able to offer and service differentiated product plans, both for retail as well as to corporates for employee health benefits management. Bajaj Markets, our other subsidiary, Bajaj Finserv Direct attracted 72 lakh consumers on its digital platform, of which 1.7 lakh became customers. BFSD lending, unsecured secured BFL and partnership disbursement for the quarter stood at 1,789 crores as opposed to 1,636 crores. It sourced 42,294 cards and has started selling the cards of BFL again, which were temporally restricted by the RBI restrictions on BFL. Bajaj Finserv AMC, as is AUM has crossed INR 12,000 crores as of 30th June. It has launched 2 new passive equity funds, the Nifty 50 ETF and the Nifty Bank ETF, and as well as a large and mid-cap fund.

All the LFOs have received very good traction. And as of Bajaj Finserv asset management, AUM was up 26% Q-o-Q. It is ranked 27th out of 43 on 30th June, 2024.

I will now hand over questions to the audience. But before we open for questions, concerning the paucity of time, may I request the audience to keep the questions brief so that we can cover more queries during the call? And please avoid asking questions which have already been answered. Thank you very much.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Supratim Datta from AMBIT.

[Supratim Dutta, analyst]

Now my first question is on the BAGIC business. Now I just wanted to understand what are you seeing in motor TP that you have preferred to allow this category to decline during 1Q. Is it higher commission? Is it higher loss ratio? What is exactly the concern here that you are taking? That's one.

Two, is more of an accounting question of what I see is that the NEP this quarter has been higher than the NWP, just wanted to understand what is driving that, if you could explain that. I have 2 more questions for the BALIC and Bajaj Health business, but I'll go after this.

[S. Sreenivasan, executive]

Okay. So the first question was on TP, what are we seeing in terms of losses? And why are we cautious on some segments of TP? And the second question was on the NWP, NEP is there a onetime adjustment? So I'll now ask Tapan to take over the first question, and Raman can follow it up with the second.

Over to you, Tapan.

[Tapan Singhel, executive]

Sure. Thank you, Sreeni. If you look at TP prices control, if you overall look at the GI business, most of -- or nearly every work, the pricing is free or left to the companies, and in other words, you've also got free. But for motor third party, it is controlled by the government, more besides based on accommodations sent by IRDA in terms of the pricing.

For the past couple of years, there has been no price revision. But the inflation claim keeps on happening every year. So in a way, you have to keep on recalibrating your business and how it moves. And for the rest, you can reprice depending on how the business is moving. But for TP, you can't -- you don't have the price control. So there's been no price hike for a couple of years, then some businesses which would have been good, let's say, 2 years back, will not be so good today because the inflation claims keeps on happening every year. That's the reason why you heard the statement Sreeni made in terms of recalibrating our business in the motor business, looking at how it's going. I hope it answered your question.

Raman, do you like to take the NWP one or the reinsurance part?

[Ramandeep Sahni, executive]

Yes. Sure. So like Sreeni highlighted in the opening remarks, during the quarter, we've actually done a new seeding on a TP, which actually covers a book of the past. So this is actually some of our rural business, which we were trying to seed, but it didn't happen before the year-end last year, but we were able to do it this year. And it included the past book as well. And that's why you see that our NWP growth is actually negative compared to the NEP growth. If I actually exclude this one-off impact, my NWP growth would have been close to 16.5%. So that's abnormality, which is being caused only for the quarter's results.

[Tapan Singhel, executive]

So let me explain it a bit further, why and how it gets done. See, in our business, when we write a large chunk of business, and then it's always good to have good reinsurance support because that is where the collaboration also happens to see how it goes and you build experiences on that. And that is why this treaty got done.

But if you look at this quarter result, we have been underwriting profit. So technically, if you look at the combined ratio on NEP, which is the way when you calculate underwriting profit, our combined ratio should be below 100, no?

[Supratim Dutta, analyst]

Got it. Got it. But if I do not take into account this one-off impact, then you will not have an underwriting profit as well, right? Because you would have gotten commission inwards due to the seeding, which would not just that.

[Tapan Singhel, executive]

Would be to a certain extent that you're seeing a large portfolio, the combined ratio we off like that. It will not be that high impact.

[S. Sreenivasan, executive]

Let me just add one more point to this. Supratim, if you know, in the end of the year, we do publish our claims triangles and now under the public disclosures, they are available for all the peer group companies as well for the current year as well as for the previous year.

And when we check that lease, we found that the paid claims to the ultimate loss expenses provided initially. Even after 6 or 7 years, we are the lowest in the market. Though we are prudent, we believe, in reserving for claims at the point of loss and we will continue to maintain a prudent stance. This obviously, you have seen occasionally some companies having to strengthen their reserves or have large items on P&L, we do not anticipate that kind of situation for BAGIC in the near term.

[Supratim Dutta, analyst]

Understood. That's very clear. Now coming to BALIC, now on the margin that, last year, first quarter, you had indicated that the margin was lower due to launch of a low-margin product and the growth being slower. Now this quarter, the growth has been strong at 18%. While there is a product mix shift. However, despite that this -- the margin appears to be very soft. So just wanted to understand why has this been the case. And is there something beyond the product mix shift that is there?

[S. Sreenivasan, executive]

Yes. Broadly, before I hand it over to Tapan and -- with Tapan and Vipin, let me just highlight this that Q1 is the softest quarter for life insurance business. Last year, we did have a launch of a unit-linked low-margin product. This year, the market on the whole, we have seen is shifted towards lower margin products because of consumer demand. We have seen, at least for our results have come down, we have seen margins softening across the companies that have already reported results. And it will be for this quarter and possibly next quarter in an industry phenomenon, who would like to take it?

[Vipin Bansal, executive]

So I think it's on the same line that Sreeni mentioned. I think it's largely driven out of the mix that you spoke about. And it is also important that there is a mix coming from into ULIP. So you see a bulk of that mix coming from the savings side, and that's where the delta is. And first quarter is always a small quarter. You still continue to run the fixed cost, and that's why there is the -- Sreeni can be very significant in the first quarter. I think as we go through the year, the year normalizes, and there is better absorption of cost. So I think that is what the normalization is for them.

[Operator]

Ladies and gentlemen, the line for the management seems to have disconnected. Please hold while we reconnect.

[S. Sreenivasan, executive]

Can you hear me?

[Tapan Singhel, executive]

No, we are there. I'm also here. Not disconnected.

[Supratim Dutta, analyst]

One last question on the Bajaj Health business. So the Bajaj Health business, you now have Vidal in that business. Just wanted to understand what kind of deal do you think is required in this business to turn profitable? Do you have a certain target or is there a business plan that at which this business turns profitable? And what would help you to reach that scale?

[S. Sreenivasan, executive]

Let me just take a bit before I pass it on to Devang. I think the acquisition of Vidal now gives us the complete toolkit required to operate across the health care spectrum in terms of services, products, platform provision and management of claims, apart from managed care services. We already have OPD and wellness, which we have invested in.

Now the acquisition of Vidal, the integration is going on, and we will eventually come out within the next 6 to 9 months, complete long-term plan, which will give us the visibility on the breakeven. Devang, would you like to?

[Devang Mody, executive]

Yes, it's a valid question. And of course, operating leverage is going to be the largest trigger, but at this point of time, where we are focused on is TP industry is highly commoditized, and there is not material difference besides stickiness of existing clients of employer-employee group that employees used to working with certain TPA. I think that's the only point for choice of TPA in industry in our view.

What we are focused on today is, how do we create value proposition for our customers, which is differentiated. So we are focused on a few things, which is highly propagated by regulator as well as government that how do we make health care transactions more digital. So I think -- so to answer your point, while -- once the integration is underway in terms of improving Vidal's platform capability creating differentiated products for their customers. So these are the 2 important tasks of integration.

And as Sreeni answered that in the next 3 months, now that we have visibility and thought process of what together we can take to market. We will do the long-range plan, which would mean also running the XL numbers. Most important thing we are focused on currently is that how do we differentiate in the market.

Another very important lever for P&L for health business is as we create meaningful products for our customers, like now with Vidal acquisition, we can also offer hospitalization as a service. Similarly, we have lined up for our self-services, which we can offer to our same customers. So last quarter, we have launched Diabetes Care as a Service, which is a fully managed package, which our customers, employers or insurers can offer to their customers. Similarly, we have a plan to launch 1 or 2 services every year. Now that requires investment. For example, in H2, we will be focused on providing Maternity as a Service. Now that requires a completely new dimension of network providers to be enrolled.

So every year, we'll roll out 2 services, that's another trigger for us to do investment on and rest of the business will continue to drive operating leverage. Our loss rate -- quarterly loss rates are reducing Y-o-Y by at least 20% to 30% and that trajectory will continue. But we are focused on launching more services and creating differentiated products. So that's the focus of the organization at this point of time. Hope I'm answering your question. I'm not giving you any revenue number at which we will break even. The reason is it will depend on our investment horizon rather than just optimization of our operating leverage.

[Operator]

The next question is from the line of Nischint Chawathe from Kotak Institutional Equities.

[Nischint Chawathe, analyst]

First, I think on the life side, we're trying to sort of translate the margins and looking at a reasonably high increase in unit-linked and Par business, taking away from non-Par. Just curious how the margin stacks up, given the fact that there was a pretty small compression in margins on a year-on-year basis. So is it something that margins at product levels have changed?

[Tapan Singhel, executive]

So, Nischint, I think margins are a function of a lot of things, including what are the current interest rates, what we are able to own, what do we offer to customers, right? It's a function of all of it. However, we will also have the distribution mix that plays a lot of functions. I think at a broader level, like I answered to Supratim earlier, we do believe that quarter 1 is too early to react on any impact on margins because this is the very smallest quarter for our business. And there will be a huge impact on the rate fixed costs. So I think as it gets as we go through the year, I think that's the time we should lead too much into margins.

Just specifically to your question, have our product margins changed very significantly? Probably not, but we do keep taking price corrections reacting to what competition is doing and what is happening in terms of the yields that we have.

[Tarun Chugh, executive]

And let me just add on to this, Tarun here. There are 2 other elements that become critical. One is the productivity and the 24% increase on top line, there has been an increase in productivity as well, plus the channel mix. So if our proprietary sales channel does better, previously, that's a lot more profitable than a few others. So I think that -- those things also play in other than product structures.

[Nischint Chawathe, analyst]

Sir, just a related question. On the agency side, growth this time was around 15%. I guess we have been stepping up a little bit more now. So is this kind of a mid-teens agency growth that we're looking at?

[Tarun Chugh, executive]

We don't make a projection on growth of channels and otherwise, don't talk about forward-looking statements. But having said that, yes, the CAGR on agency has been at 19%. Our focus is always to ensure that we, despite being now one of the largest agencies, look at the base effect, get into more cities. We run multiple agencies. We don't run one. So a lot of these will play out over a period of time. But I don't think I can make a statement on -- in terms of growth rates of all like this.

[S. Sreenivasan, executive]

Nischint, just to add to that, what Tarun is -- to what Tarun said, I think Agency has these multiple channels with different economics on growth and profitability. And depending on how the overall requirement of the company is in terms of balancing the product mix, I think the levers will be used differently.

So more than the overall growth, it's a balance between growth and profitability that you should see. It was a channel which was set to be across the industry, not possible to make money, but I think now we are into double-digit margin territory there and we would like to keep it growing in that space.

[Nischint Chawathe, analyst]

And Axis Bank seems to have stepped up this quarter.

[Tarun Chugh, executive]

Yes. So is that a question or statement?

[Nischint Chawathe, analyst]

No, no. It's a question.

[Tarun Chugh, executive]

So Axis Bank, we are where we are. We usually tend to keep our market share between 25% to 30%. And -- and as Sreeni, I think, mentioned upfront in the call, that we are very clear that we do not want to be one bank channel-led unlike our peers who are largely skewed and that brings a lot of risk to the business mix and kind of, it is better to be distributed always. And that's how we are going. And I think Axis has been keeping instead.

[Nischint Chawathe, analyst]

One is on health insurance. If you could kind of help us understand the trend in health loss ratios. Is it a mix-change? Or is it something that we are able to see some -- whether there's a deterioration or improvement in the retail loss ratios?

And just finally, on Bajaj markets, we're looking at organic visits and transacting customers sort of slowing down. So how should one look at this and whether we'll be doing further investments on this? So those are the 2 final questions.

[S. Sreenivasan, executive]

Right. Tapan, would you like to take them?

[Tapan Singhel, executive]

Can we just get the question again?

[Nischint Chawathe, analyst]

Yes. Sorry, on the health side, if you could break the loss ratios between retail and growth and the change in loss ratio this quarter? So basically, on the retail side, have we seen an improvement or deterioration in the loss, which if possible, you could break it between retail and growth?

[Tapan Singhel, executive]

So if you look at the retail loss ratios, it is a combination of the year of policies, and that is across the industry, your first year quality has a lower loss ratio. Second year goes up, third a bit more and fourth goes up for it. So depending on how you acquire fresh and business, the loss ratio moves on that basis. That is one way to look at loss ratio, which predominantly happens in the industry.

The other way to look at the loss ratios, how do you redefine your mix and acquire customers at what age and where do you put it on. So if you look at our average age of customers, it now has gone down in retail health, which shows that overall, this would be a better book as it progresses further. The loss ratio movement has not been very significant in terms of that compared to the last time we have moved up or down significantly, but we are in the process of correcting the book so that it gets better over time.

[S. Sreenivasan, executive]

So to add to Tapan's this thing, if you look at FY '22 onwards, the market as a whole, the number of policies hasn't grown at all. It's fairly flat. Most of the increase in premium for companies because some of the companies have increased their prices. So the number of new people coming into the market is not growing as fast.

Given our position, we have also now located that there are many pockets in the country where we need to do more health business, where traditionally, we were doing more and more other businesses. Over the next 2 to 3 years, we will focus a lot more effort on to that. This is very clear from our side.

[Ramandeep Sahni, executive]

Nischint, I'll just add to the loss ratio. See, I think what you rightly highlighted is the -- while the -- there is an increase in the loss ratio, but it's a result of the increase in the proportion of government and GMC business, which is causing a minor increase in the loss ratios.

Also, like we have mentioned earlier, we -- if you recall in the last call, I think you had highlighted that we will be repricing our products because I think on that front, we are lagging versus the market. And some amount of repricing has gone into play late during this quarter. And I think about 50% of the book on the retail side will get repriced in quarter 2. So you will hopefully see some impact of that coming in, in the coming quarters.

[Nischint Chawathe, analyst]

Bajaj markets?

[S. Sreenivasan, executive]

Yes. Ashish?

[Ashish Panchal, executive]

The question's second part. The first one was on organic traffic going down. [indiscernible] traffic, that has gone up. It comprises of the status and then it is tariffs and [indiscernible] organic has momentarily gone down for the quarter due to some changes in Google algorithm, but if you look at our direct channels for which we have 0 cost, these are organic, direct and social.

The sum total of these 3 has gone up for us, which means our free channels have traffic. And therefore, while the total traffic has gone up and the free channels, total traffic has gone up. Organic is go down, has not affected us economically first. As for the trend of transacting customers, our transacting customer count in Q1 FY '24, '25, has decreased by 71,000 against Q4 FY '23, '24, but 90% of this reduction is only on account of mutual fund.

And in mutual funds, we are in the process of migrating from offering direct mutual funds to regular mutual funds. And in turn, we are moving from RIA to ARN. And therefore, this change of strategy caused us this decrease in transacting customers. I hope that's the price ratios.

[Operator]

The next question is from the line of Dhaval from DSP.

[Dhaval Gada, analyst]

There is one question on the general business. BAGIC is -- could you talk a little bit around these few liability claims that came during the quarter? So that's my first one. Second, on the Bajaj Life business, the rolling 12-month margin is about 14.3% and initial comments that I think Sreeni made were that this year, the margin is expected to be more consolidating given the surrender impact, but medium term, the margin continues to expand that sort of our aspiration was earlier. So could you talk a little bit around near-term margins in the context of the last 12-month margin? And what should one expect over the next 2, 3 years in terms of margin expansion? So that's the second one.

The third question is on Bajaj Health. On Slide 51, you have the business model. I understand you haven't yet made the proper LRS for this business. So -- but could you give some perspective around which -- what will be the biggest driver of operating leverage that Devang talked about earlier? And just a data gaming question on Bajaj Health is this quarter, the revenue includes Vidal. If you ex out Vidal, would the revenues be close to INR 160 crores, INR 165 crores. That's just a data-keeping question. Yes. So those are the questions from my side.

[S. Sreenivasan, executive]

Dhaval, the first question was on liability claims. While we can't give out the exactly what kind of claims they were, I can only tell you that in the P&C business, P&C, this is the C part of P&C, claims tend to be large, but infrequent especially with respect to corporate liability claims, whereas in the terms of asset insurances, you will find a large number of claims are more frequent and low severity.

I'll then hand over to Raman or Tapan to explain.

[Ramandeep Sahni, executive]

I think, Sreeni, you rightly highlighted while we can't take names of the clients and the nature of claims, but there are basically 2, 3 claims, which are large in nature and fortunately, see, this liability business is largely managed amongst the top 5 private players. And there, all the 3 claims which I spoke about are coinsured, and you'll hopefully see a similar impact either in this quarter or next quarter in most of the other private players accounts also, but like we said, there seem to be one-offs and hence don't seem to be an area of worry at this stage for us.

[S. Sreenivasan, executive]

And usually, they take time to settle. So eventual settlement depending on all the company is deserving could be less as well, but that takes time because these are all matters of their own liability and contracts. The second question was on live. We can't give any picture on margin, but if Vipin or Tarun would like to highlight that.

[Tarun Chugh, executive]

Yes, Sreeni, I'll take that. Yes, you're right. We can't talk about numbers, but see, I understand that there is a concern on the SSV that is coming in. So what we're doing is a little conservative in the way we are talking about this year. A lot of this will be -- is yet to pan out, which is why the statement from Sreeni where there could be lesser of an expansion, let me put it this way.

See, as a company, if you look at our motion of the movement on our NBF, we've only been going up. And the last 5 years, our margins have grown up -- grown significantly in terms of share percentages. And although we largely look at NBFC. What you will find is that our expansion of margin shall continue. But maybe for the short term this year, we'll wait and watch, and we are not making any significantly optimistic forward-looking statements even directionally for this year. Maybe there will be a little bit of pause before it starts sending this again. That's the way I'd like to answer.

[S. Sreenivasan, executive]

And the third question was on Bajaj Finserv Health. You want to understand that the operating leverage will come and whether ex Vidal, what would have been the revenue growth. I will only add one thing before I hand it over to Devang is that the business that Bajaj Finserv has built was basically a capability on OPD, wellness and networks, mostly smaller ticket riders and products sold. Vidal is a different stream of revenue. I'll hand over to Devang to explain that one.

[Devang Mody, executive]

Yes. So I think let me take the revenue number question out first. So the stand-alone revenue is INR 167.65 crores. So that answers your question on that. I must also mention that this quarter has decent amount of acquisition-related expenses because as transaction gets consumed, then we have to pay the bankers fees, et cetera. So that is passed through both P&Ls.

On -- your point on Slide #51, there operating leverage would come from? See, practically, we are too small a business at this point of time. And hence, all the pieces of payer stack should add to operating leverage to explain you. I think every quarter, we are adding one more nonlife insurer and one life insurer to our payers who are offering OPD services to their customers. Now these are -- these contracts take time because they formulate the product, they file the product, they do the technology integration with us. And after that, they roll out in the market, and that's when our revenue clock starts.

So I think that addition of non-life insurance and life insurance will be continuous. And these are fairly sticky business unless we falter on services tremendously. It will keep adding value. A lot of -- most of these products on life as well as nonlife side are renewable, and that's what should provide kicker to revenue without having to spend on business development, initial integration, product launch time. So I have a business development team, which is knocking doors and product launch takes anywhere from 3 to 6 to sometimes 9 months with an insurance company. So there is no revenue which fits in.

So that's what will add to our operating leverage, which is normalized, more partnerships, life insurance more partnerships. In those partnerships, more products and more penetration. But I think as a company, do you see largest trigger to come from corporates. Vidal -- since Vidal in the market is heavily skewed towards corporate as payer, the percentage of premium under management, they would be amongst highest corporate as total premium under management.

And we believe that our digital experience as well as OPD capabilities are much more suited for corporate as a payer. So every -- since we are a small business, all the payers sectors should grow, but corporates will find much quicker revert as there is an existing demand, which is not getting met. And we have what it takes, but it requires a little bit of solutioning because insurers have to be brought on board, et cetera, et cetera. So all those things we complete that corporate will give immediate revenue increase and hence operating leverage. Insurers is a longer walk, but much more sticky business. I hope I have answered your question.

[Operator]

The next question is from the line of Sanketh Godha from Avendus Spark.

[Sanketh Godha, analyst]

Sir, my question is largely related to motor on damaging BAGIC. Our growth on OD is strong around 22 percentage. By any challenge, this growth includes Hero, I say OEM addition? Or we expect that Hero addition will come in subsequent quarters in -- from some of that OEM this thing?

And second thing, with respect to OD was to understand the claims because last year, we ended at 63.6. Today, it is at 69.4, it's a meaningful deterioration around 600 basis points. So just wanted to understand any specific reason why this motor OD loss ratios have marginally -- or have increased compared to last April. That is the question on BAGIC I have, then I'll ask on BALIC.

[S. Sreenivasan, executive]

Yes. Raman, would you like to take it?

[Ramandeep Sahni, executive]

Yes, I'll take it. So, Sanketh, Hero has not yet started firing guns. I think it'll take a few more weeks. Business has started. But in Q1, it was not material enough to talk about. Your second question on OD. I think to understand that better, if you just look at our OD loss ratios, they move quarter-on-quarter. If you see the trend for last 3 years, every year, you will see in quarter 1, there is a spike. And by year-end, from quarter 2, actually, it starts normalizing.

So I think that's a trend we've seen reoccur every year. Having said that, at least what we believe seeing the trend for last month and so on, we believe that what was the trend for full year last year is close to where we should end this year at on ages basis.

Now obviously, like Tapan has been reiterating now and then, it all depends on the quality of the portfolio, you're right. But if I were to just look at the past trends and answer your question, you'll see that this normalizes over the balance 3 quarters, and we, on ages basis should settle at close to 65%.

[Sanketh Godha, analyst]

Got it. Perfect. And Hero, you might have assessed it internally. How big is the potential? I mean if it start firing from second quarter, how much extra layer it can add to the growth?

[Ramandeep Sahni, executive]

Like I think we all have said in the past, we'll not make any forward-looking statements. So let's wait and watch how the numbers shape up because it's also a matter of how much commission we want to pay, right? It's very easy, like we've been saying every now and that it's very easy to buy a business in the motor segment. So it will all depend on what the discounting is, what the commercials are depending on that. So let's wait and watch, hopefully in the second quarter onwards, you'll start seeing the result.

[Sanketh Godha, analyst]

Okay. Okay. On BALIC, my question is -- I mean if you can break up that growth of Bank of 27 percentage into Axis and non-Axis. I just wanted to understand where the growth has come from compared to the large bank channel we have. And the next one was, again, with respect to growth, if something a little different have we done in direct channel, which led to such a strong growth? Anything which you want to highlight, the 75% growth, how is it sustainable for the full year because that's probably one of the way to recruit margins if surrender norms impact, as you rightly highlighted that the direct channel will be a little mitigant on product mix to protect the margin. Sir, if you can give a little more color on that part will be very useful.

[Tarun Chugh, executive]

Okay. See, it's always not -- we can't be so transparent, we tell you exact percentages of all our banks. And honestly, we keep changing. But I mean, broadly speaking, Axis is, of course, our largest contributor. And I mean, a little less than all our other banks, bank business comes from -- even half of that comes from Axis Bank. But we do have partners in aggregator space in the broking spaces, et cetera, which we're not adding up to that.

So overall, this share is -- on an overall basis, Axis will be under 23%, which is what we've always been saying. And Banca would be Banca broking, everything would be close to about 50-ish -- 45% to 50%. It varies depends on the this quarter was 45%.

Now on the Direct business, see, Direct is something we've been working on for quite some time, and we've been actually quite positive in making a lot of investments, I think a lot many verticals. We started a defense channel. These are customers who are existing with us. And we have to get more and more efficient about servicing them and upselling them new products.

And as our product mining has been going on, we've been able to decipher where there are more possibilities of developing efficiencies in this channel. We do expect this channel to remain relatively faster growing versus the rest of the other businesses, namely agency and institutional business. But yes, these are exceptional growth rates we've been able to get this quarter. I don't think that kind of level will be sustainability for.

[Sanketh Godha, analyst]

Got it. Just is it fair to assume that if direct growth at a faster rate than the other channel, then any margin loss because of the surrender loans can this play a role in reconning a bit from the surrender loans?

[Tarun Chugh, executive]

To an extent, you're right. But it's not entirely that story because it's also a product mix play that is there, that it spoils a lot more units. And then plus, there is no commission payout there. And usually, surrender commissions, costs, it's a very complicated trade in the way things will pan out after H1. Among all of these, yes, Direct say tends to get a positive benefit of all of these 3.

[Sanketh Godha, analyst]

And lastly, if I can squeeze one. If -- I'm trying my luck if you want to answer, you can answer, but...

[Tarun Chugh, executive]

So you thought say you're lucky anyway.

[Sanketh Godha, analyst]

If you can quantify by any chance, the impact of surrender loans on your margins. So that means on FY '24, I mean to say, the 14.6, assuming you don't do anything with respect to payouts and all those things? What's the number you could see?

[Tarun Chugh, executive]

Sanketh, to correct you sorry, you're trying luck too hard. There could be a slight pause in the growth, but the expansion is going to be back. A lot has yet to be seen on the way commission span out and the way of productivity span out, product mixes span out, there is this huge underlying surge in the market given the fact that the syntax is at the top. So topline, it's going to be a combination of a lot of factors. Even if I also make a statement, I would be 100% sure it won't be correct.

[S. Sreenivasan, executive]

Sanketh, the only limited point there is that a lot of the surrender is based on surrender values and so these are all actuarial reserving that needs to be adjusted now. As the business builds over the next few years, if there are no actual surrenders, which are much higher than where we are today, then that amount is not going to get paid out only at maturity, which is already built in, okay? So this is a game of actuarial reserving and actual results demonstrating that for the industry as a whole for this particular product lines, which are affected, will play out over the next few years.

Like all industry specific things, it is not one company which is getting affected. And we'll all adjust. Last year, there was a big -- this thing about tax on traditional products. In reality, I think you can see in hindsight, we all adapted. So our margins will evolve is we will adapt, and now we will adapt will vary from company to company, but eventually the focus will be in improving the margin while continuing to grow better than market. That remains our -- or rather the NBV, that should grow faster than the -- where we are today. That is our primary objective.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Madhukar Ladha from Nuvama Wealth Management.

[Madhukar Ladha, analyst]

Most of my questions have been answered. Just a couple of ones which are left. One on the Vidal acquisition, now that you've acquired Vidal, are you seeing other insurance companies associated with Vidal withdrawing from -- withdrawing business from there because that was one of the fears that the market and I also had.

Second, you've done a pretty large government health transaction last year, the Vidal government transaction and you would be competing about a year. So maybe you could talk a little bit about your experience and your learnings? And how would you sort of see that business in terms of whether you would still like to continue or what sort of changes or anything else that you would like to add in terms of making that business more profitable. Yes, any comments and color around that would be helpful. These would be my 2 questions.

[S. Sreenivasan, executive]

The first question is for Devang. As a policy, we have a Board approved policy that more -- not more than 10% of our PPA business from Bajaj Finserv will be done with our insurance companies. So we don't see that as a particular block. But Devang, can you add flavor to that?

[Devang Mody, executive]

Yes. I think we -- as soon as we announced the transaction, as it is required, and it is desired, we informed to all the insurance companies with whom Vidal was working. And post that, we engage with them. Obviously, they had this question that you are now becoming part of the group, which owns an insurance company, what does it mean for a conflict of interest.

So we explained it to them, which are all packed that Vidal is a regulated entity, regulated by IRDA and open for inspection of IRDA. So -- and there are regulations around use of data and et cetera. So IRDA has approved the transaction with caveats and reasons. And hence, they should have that as mitigant that there is a regulator in picture. Besides that, there is DPDP law, DPDP has become a law now though the fine prints of what are the bylaws, et cetera, are yet to be released, but it's at. So nobody can just misuse the data for any other purpose than as -- used as required.

Third thing, so our Vidal customer had that these questions, we have answered them. We are continuing business. Vidal is continuing the same premium under management. And hence, there will be some reluctance on some of the customers for the time being. The key question is what is the value add we are putting on trigger?

And this risk in our mind was thought out risk because even for OPD services, while we started our business with BAGIC because we co-created a product, every quarter, we are adding one non-BAGIC health insurance company and non-BALIC life insurance companies, they have same questions. And if you are able to add value, people will work quickly. That is our experience from last 4, 5 quarters that we are adding one health insurance company and one life insurance company.

Obviously, they also have, in competition, our group companies. And I think market is becoming mature that we are a listed company with Nifty 50 present fact that group has impeccable brand imagery. And I think -- so it should be mitigated. When I approach any insurance company, this is the first question they asked over a period of time with 3 to 6 months of business development, they come on Board.

So yes, it's a legitimate question, which customers will have. But if we are able to add value, people will work with that. In our group, in lending business, we bank all the checks of customer EMI into some bank only, and those same banks we compete for our loans business. So this is all -- since there is no group having services business in the market, that's why it is a legitimate question from customers as well as the question you are asking. If you are able to add value, they will work with us, and that has been our observation till now. I hope I've answered the question you asked.

[Madhukar Ladha, analyst]

Got it. And the next one on the...

[Tapan Singhel, executive]

On the Government group, if you look at our company's philosophy and over time, we have said it also. We are into all lines of businesses. And you've never seen us say that we are working out of our business or we're entering again, and I've seen a part of peers do that, but it always consistently stay in all lines of businesses. And we learn from it and we keep on looking at what to do next. That is how we also in government held business. Gujarat is the first one. We have done Jammu & Kashmir before we have done, Maharashtra State also before. So it's a continuous process of doing business.

[Madhukar Ladha, analyst]

Sure, sir. Any comments qualitatively on the loss ratios or what needs to be done.

[Tapan Singhel, executive]

That I don't give. I think I mentioned that last time also because see, this is our hard work that we do to figure out businesses and do that. So obviously, we'll not be giving details on our individual businesses and LOPs and lines that we don't do.

[Operator]

Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for the day. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Raghvesh for closing comments.

[Unknown Attendee]

Thank you to all the participants for joining on the call and a special thanks to the management of Bajaj Finserv for giving us the opportunity to host the call. Thank you.

[S. Sreenivasan, executive]

Thank you, everybody.

[Tapan Singhel, executive]

Thank you, everybody.

[Ramandeep Sahni, executive]

Thank you.

[Operator]

On behalf of JM Financial, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.