Bajaj Finserv Ltd

NSE:BAJAJFINSV

Earnings Call Transcript 2023-Q1

[Operator]

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Bajaj Finserv Limited Q1 FY '23 Earnings Conference Call hosted by JM Financial. [Operator Instructions]. Please note that this conference is being recorded.

I now hand the conference over to Mr. Sameer Bhise from JM Financial. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

[Sameer Bhise, analyst]

Thank you, Renu. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us to the Bajaj Finserv 1Q FY '23 Earnings Conference Call. Firstly, I would like to thank the management of Bajaj Finserv Limited for giving us an opportunity to host this call.

From the management team, we have Mr. S. Sreenivasan, CFO, Bajaj Finserv Limited; Mr. Tapan Singhel, CEO, Bajaj Allianz General Insurance Company; Mr. Ramandeep Singh Sahni, CFO Bajaj Allianz General Insurance Company; and from the Life Insurance business, we have Mr. Bharat Kalsi, Chief Financial Officer from the Bajaj Allianz Life Insurance Company.

Without much ado, I would now hand over the call to Mr. S. Sreenivasan for his opening comments, and then we can open for Q&A. Over to you, sir. Thank you.

[S. Sreenivasan, executive]

Thank you, Sameer. Good morning, everybody. Welcome to the conference call to discuss the results of Bajaj Finserv Limited of Q1 of FY '23. That is quarter ended 30 June 2022.

As before in this call, we will largely be concentrating on the consolidated results as well as the results of our insurance operations through Bajaj Allianz General Insurance BAGIC and Bajaj Allianz Life Insurance, BALIC and where materials are stand-alone results of our company Bajaj Finserv. Bajaj Finance Limited, which is another major subsidiary of ours already had its conference call. However, if there are any high-level questions on BFL, we would take that as well.

We will not be taking any questions on the status of Allianz stake in our insurance company, except to state the status has remained the same as at the end of the previous quarter, and there is no change.

Any statement that may look like forward-looking statements such as estimates and do not conclude an assurance or indication of any future performance result. As required the regulation, we have adopted Indian accounting standards. The insurance companies are not covered under Ind AS, they have prepared Ind AS financials only for the purpose of consolidation. Accordingly, for BAGIC and BALIC, the stand-alone numbers that we will be reporting and talking about are put up on our website are based on non-Ind AS accounting standards or Indian GAAP as applicable to insurance companies.

Our results, the press release accompanying the results and our investor deck has been uploaded on our website, yesterday. I hope you've all had a chance to go through it.

Let me add a word about the additional disclosures in our investor deck. We have added an update on the policy administration systems adopted by both our insurance companies. These are under implementation, and one of them is under silent implementation. These are design from ground up, developing relevant modern technology, and we expect that once fully rolled out, it will give the benefit of scalability and efficiency. I must highlight the fact that we will probably the first to be predominantly cloud native and this could be a new trend in the market.

We have also added updates on our 2 digitally-oriented subsidiaries, Bajaj Finserv Direct or Bajaj Markets and Bajaj Finserv Health although they are not yet material subsidiaries under the [ SEBI LODR ]. We do hope these disclosures will be useful to our investor community.

Coming to the performance updates for Q1 of FY '23. Conditions for business in Q1 FY '23 was significantly better compared to the previous quarter of the previous year, barring an increase in claims for BAGIC, overall, it was an excellent quarter for all our businesses.

Let me start with BALIC. I think we had all round growth which was excellent. Individual rated new business premium recorded 81% year-on-year increase to INR 895 crores. Group Protection new business was up 76% at INR 574 crores. Overall new business premium more than doubled to INR 2,917 crores from INR 1,296 crores in Q1 of FY '22.

On the back of renewal premium growth of 19%, the gross written premium was up 74% year-on-year. A matter of satisfaction for us is that over 3 years compared to the pre-COVID period, BALIC growth in this Q1 is the highest in the market. During the quarter, growth was driven by all our main channels, with agency institutional business, which includes bancassurance, brokers, corporate agents and BALIC Direct, growing at 63%, 68% and 105%, respectively. Unit-linked business was 38%, non-par savings, 31% of the product mix with par contributing 19% and between 9% and retail term 3%. Persistency improved across all cohorts with a 13-month persistency at 83% and the 61st month at 49%.

Whilst growing rapidly, BALIC has also reported significant increase in its net new business value or NBV. The NBV for the quarter was INR 135 crores as against INR 25 crores in Q1 of FY '22, with the new business margin improving to 11.1% from 4.2% in the same quarter of the previous year.

In the life insurance business, quarter 1 is also -- is the lowest seasonally, as you are aware. And since fixed expenses get charged fairly equally across quarters, margins tend to be lower in Q1 Therefore, a double-digit margin in Q1 is a significant achievement. BALIC's profit after tax for Q1 FY '23 was INR 124 crores against INR 84 crores in Q1 FY '22, with a growth of 48%. However, I must mention here that Q1 FY '22 was impacted due to higher death claims and reserving on account of COVID-19, net of some tax reversals. Therefore, normally, when you grow so fast, you would expect a new business trend, which is indeed the case, but it has been more than offset by the higher claims, which we recorded in Q1 FY '22.

I would like to highlight another significant development in Q1 for BALIC, which is that they have signed 2 new corporate agency agreements on bancassurance with DBS and City Union Bank, respectively. We hope to see this contributing to growth from Q3 and beyond. If you recall, one of the gaps BALIC used to have a few years ago was on bancassurance tie-ups. And now with several partners, institutions become -- a business has become significantly large for BALIC. New tie-ups will also helped us diversify business across partners.

Let me move on to BAGIC now. Growth in GWP has been very good overall at 25% and excluding center-driven business [indiscernible] 19%. Due to the strong growth and since we have to amortize premiums over the life of the policies, our net earned premium growth was just 2%. We hope the net earned premium for the quarter should get released over the next few quarters. The quarter also witnessed challenges on the claims front. We saw significant increase in motor OD claims both in terms of frequency and severity. As growth builds up, combined with selective underwriting actions, we hope to stabilize this in a couple of quarters.

While auto sales have just started picking up from its lows, it will be some time before it plays out in terms of growth. Due to very high traffic on growth, there was an increase in frequency of TP claims and BAGIC has chosen to reserve prudently for TP claims. On the health front, BAGIC was cautious of [ retail ] there is a possibility of a new COVID wave. Unlike life insurance, impact of COVID wave is fairly immediate for general and health insurance. As things are stabilizing BAGIC will seek now to accelerate growth. BAGIC will seek to strengthen the team in its health vertical and also seek to promote health insurance with marketing efforts. BAGIC has recently launched its first global health policy for Indian residents. We believe this is the first -- probably among the first, if not the first in the Indian market.

The pickup on it help prime rider, which was announced in Q4 including which includes outpatient treatment and teleconsultation has been very good since launch. Till date, we have sold over 500,000 such riders. With his extensive product range, outstanding service record and claims and with marketing focus, BAGIC hopes to regain growth in retail health over the next few quarters. Overall, there has been an increase in the frequency and severity of non-COVID claims in the health business.

Group help grow strongly as BAGIC was able to write more accounts on its own terms, and also gaining the benefit -- gaining advantage of some benefit products that it sells through NBFCs. Under the classification of IRDAI, benefit products come under grid. Claim ratio for health overall is lower in Q1, largely due to provision for [ COVID claims in Q1 of FY '20 ].

Let me touch upon the commercial and corporate line, fire, engineering, marine, et cetera. Although they seem to get less attention as they are not [ retail ]. This has always been BAGIC's strength, and it's a significant proportion of the market. We had another good quarter with BAGIC outgrowing the industry. And with its excellent reinsurance capacity and terms and the vast bancassurance network, BAGIC will also further strengthen its position in this segment over the next few quarters. On account of lower growth in earned premium, and higher claims, BAGIC reported an underwriting loss of INR 61 crores and a combined ratio of 104.6%.

Profit after tax grew by 13% to INR 411 crores, helped by higher profit on sale of investments of at least INR 279 crores as against INR 132 crores in Q1 FY '22. Overall, a good quarter for BAGIC though higher claims posted challenge.

Now that it's about BFL briefly, an excellent quarter for the company across balance sheet growth, portfolio quality and profitability, highest ever new customer acquisitions in Q1 on track to go fully digital across all products and services on app by January 2023 and by that, hopefully, by March 2023. The assets under management of AUM crossed INR 2 lakh crores with an increase of 28%. Deposits grew strongly and are now 20% of borrowings. The gross NPA and the net NPA continue to be under control at 1.25% and 0.51%, respectively, and BFL continues to maintain a management overlay of INR 1,000 crores on its expected credit loss provisions.

Consolidated profit of BFL grew 159% to INR 2,596 crores. The pre-provision operating profit grew 37%.

Bajaj Housing Finance continues to do well, with the 40% growth AUM ended at INR 57,425 crores, while net interest income grew 77% to INR 595 crores.

NPA continue to be low, with net NPA at just below 0.11%. It was only in 2017, FY 2017, that Bajaj Housing Finance started business on its own, with a small book from Bajaj Finance. For 5 years reaching [ INR 57,000 crores ], we believe, is a very strong start for this business.

On the back of growth and good risk metrics, profit after tax grew 96% to INR 316 crores. A word on our consolidated results on the back of strong results from our subsidiaries, the consolidated results were very strong. The consolidated total income was up 14% year-on-year at INR 15,888 crores and the consolidated profit after tax was up 57% at INR 1,309 crores. This consolidated profit is after volatile mark-to-market losses on the investment portfolio of BAGIC and BALIC, which is recognized under Ind AS in the consolidated financials and which had a post-tax impact of INR 283 crores. The underlying core profitability would have been significantly higher, excluding this.

Overall, a very strong start to FY '23, and we do hope the momentum continues into the next few quarters. And last word, you must have seen from the press release yesterday and the filings in the stock exchange that Bajaj Finserv has decided to split its INR 5 share into 5 shares of INR 1 each and thereafter give a bonus 1:1. So that INR 5 share today will eventually become 10 shares of INR 1 each. This will be after due approvals by shareholders. With that, I will pass it on to you for any questions when you have or clarifications that you may need. Thank you.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions]. The first question is from the line of Prakash Kapadia from Anived Portfolio Manager Private Limited.

[Prakash Kapadia, analyst]

A couple of questions from my end. On the motor OD as well as TP side, we've grown slower than industry in Q1. So is it aggressive pricing by others? Or we were waiting for third-party hikes or certain segments we are avoiding? If you could give some color on the motor side, please?

[Sameer Bhise, analyst]

Before I passed it on to Tapan, I'll give a broad [ look ]. All asset-based insurance, motor or property when you go through a cycle where growth has been slow, then the growth doesn't pick up in the same proportion across the subsegments. For example, in motor that you see, it is a complex business. You have motor OD, TP within that, you have 2-wheelers, you have private cars and then you have commercial vehicles. There are good carrying, passenger carrying. It's not that all of them have grown similarly. So as the growth comes back, whether we are a little bit here or there, usually, the market is not important because it's only 1 quarter. We are running a long-term business. So we will pick up the growth on the segments that we want.

Typically, BAGIC has always been conservative on the heavy vehicle segment, which is getting very high severity of third-party losses. And therefore, as we go along, we will continue to focus on the segments that we like.

Now I'll hand it over to Tapan to give a sharper flavor on this.

[Tapan Singhel, executive]

Thank you, Sreeni. I think you summed it very beautifully. When you look at growth, I think it's in context in what we want to drive and how the market growth is happening for those particular segment of [ vehicles ], which is there. So it's a play of these 2 which takes on. And that is where the overall growth comes. So the time the segment in which we are driving, they're growing better than the market, then our growth would go over the market. And then if they are not doing as good as the market, then the growth would come [ down ] the market. And this also dynamic, it's not a fixed kind of segment. We have a strong team of underwriters actually, and we keep on studying the market. They just keep on deciding on what segments to push for. And that is why this is a -- it is a dynamic movement. So the up and down is -- I think it's just vary depending on the segment that we are focusing on. So thank you for your question.

[Prakash Kapadia, analyst]

And on the CV business, what is the kind of mix we would be comfortable because you said that is more of a lumpy business and because of third-party claims, the ratios are much higher. So what kind of mix would we be comfortable on the CV side?

[Tapan Singhel, executive]

So again, in CV, it is not at all CVs have high third-party loss ratios. That's the point I can tell you. It's a combination. So CV, again, has a variety of vehicles and a lot of vehicles are low third-party ratio. So some vehicles have high third-party ratio. It's a combination of which segment are we looking at and how do you want to grow it, how they're performing. So there's nothing which is good or bad in the market. I think in all portfolios, we have business, which to us looks good, and we want to service as well.

And some businesses which are not right priced right as of now, so those we look at very keenly to see when the price range comes to the point where we feel it is conducive for right business, we write that business. So, it will be wrong to say that CV has the only high third-party loss ratio business.

[Prakash Kapadia, analyst]

And in terms...

[S. Sreenivasan, executive]

Just to add to what Tapan said, it is very easy in the market to say that CV or other business, whatever the third-party business to get very aggressive because interest rates have gone up. But historically, we have seen the general insurance industry, that kind of cash flow underwriting doesn't work in the long run because third-party being a long tail risk, it will take some time for the losses on the new book to level up. So one has to balance that. And I think BAGIC has a very strong team, which looks into all aspects of this in terms of geography, types of fleets, types of [indiscernible] and everything. We'll continue to doing what has helped us so far, and we are quite confident that BAGIC will come back.

[Prakash Kapadia, analyst]

And in terms of annual mix, it would be what 10% to 15% business CV business?

[S. Sreenivasan, executive]

In CV and all, we don't do that kind of mix as a target. We just do good business, what we think, we mix up some. Obviously, there will be some good and come back. But overall, as long as we are doing the right underwriting, we would be able to deliver our profit. So the mix will develop according to that.

[Prakash Kapadia, analyst]

Right. And on the health side, what kind of contribution do we expect from the government business on the group health side. And on the group health side, on the nongovernment side also what has been our comfort in terms of claims ratio because this is a business where you will have less of marketing costs. So what would be your comfort and how do you manage a risk on that side on the health business?

[Tapan Singhel, executive]

I think there are 2 micro questions for analysts all in terms of how do we look at it. As I mentioned earlier, I think business in which we find the pricing comfortable. It is a business because for us, our belief is, and I think we truly demonstrated over time in terms of our grievance ratio, our claim settlement ratio. Our belief is that companies with healthy balance sheet are able to service customers very well. And that is why we don't want the balance sheet to be spoiled.

And we look at a track record and these are [ IRDAI ] publicly discrete good data. We have [indiscernible] ratio for quarters together, and I would completely say for a decade now. And on the best claims settlement ratio, I think -- so this is testament of the fact that our obsession to our customers has been the highest. We look at NPS score also, I think it would be among the highest industry has.

So the issue is that once you write business in which we feel comfortable in terms of the price in which we feel that we service it very well. And that's how we build a long-term company. But to get to the micro detail of what the loss ratio should be, what particular segment should be. I don't think that I would like to answer that and I understand.

[Prakash Kapadia, analyst]

Yes. And lastly, from my side, given that the industry is having a higher combined ratio. I think last quarter, it was 118% versus 112%, 113%. Does that lead to unsustainable business for most of the players in terms of profitability and cash flow? And is consolidation the way to sustain this business, how because we've seen a lot of new age players suffering because of cash flows or profitability. So as consolidation happen in the industry, directionally, what is our sense?

[S. Sreenivasan, executive]

Tapan, I will start that. That's a good question because the industry cyclically globally has gone through many cycles like this. When capital is really available when liquidity is strong in the market, I think there is a belief that there is only 1 metric to be changed, and that is gross written premium. But unfortunately, in this business, the risk is open-ended because the quantum of claims [ made ] in the premium is significantly high.

So over time, as the cycles change and capital becomes scarce, the ability to write business, which is losing becomes very difficult. Now I don't know whether that situation has reached in India or not yet. But to us, writing business at a loss is not what we as a group in Bajaj have ever done. Therefore, we will watch as the things go by. I think when too many companies make losses, and they have to continuously inject capital, at some point, one should expect that some of them may not be able to survive. It is not a good way of running a business. Today, based on a solvency, one of the highest in the market, if not the highest, of 349%. And this 349% is the lowest capital infused in the business. And that represents the fact that the last 20 years, we have been profitable despite the fact that industry has hardly been profitable in any of these years on the whole.

So that is sort of top-level answer to this. Tapan, would you wish to add anything to this?

[Tapan Singhel, executive]

Yes. So when you look at the combined ratio moving up, we understand that this is dimension of business, not in India, across the world, it's facing a very unique situation, which is high inflation.

In the GI business, high inflation hit the business immediately. Why? Because when you price the product, you didn't take into account the inflation, which may come up and rise so fast. So be the simple repair of motor vehicle or a health claim or it's even a factory is getting again repaired or rebuild, the cost of construction, the cost of repair of a vehicle or currently, even for a hospital, we see a very high inflation [indiscernible].

Now when you look at high inflation at a lot of places. People revise the cost on the sale price to take care of the inflation cost. For the GI business, I think it has a lag, and that is why when you notice that the movement of combine ratio is peak, I think that is why you see this commercial moving up.

Now about survival of companies, I think each company has own strategy and how they look at it. We cannot comment on that. But if you look at it, a very long period like Sreeni mentioned, for the industry, which has gone through group difficult combined ratio times, we already see a lot of stress for quite a few companies just there. But I think they have to figure out their own strategy of how they want to look at it. We are building a company for hundreds of years. So I don't think we are in a hurry to cut corners just for that. So we will continue to focus on long-term stability and long-term good business for our customers for our stakeholders in this business.

[Prakash Kapadia, analyst]

Absolutely. I think I was your philosophy and process and approach to running the business is very clear. This was more of a general industry consolidation view if this will accelerate because of the way the combined ratios are that was...

[Tapan Singhel, executive]

Yes, combined ratio was not easing. At the [ closing ] the inflation is going to hit it again. So when we see quarters coming through, we see deterioration happening because the price has -- the price at which it was built for this inflation, I don't think it was taken into consideration. So that is why the industry will see more difficult combined ratio. So I think it's a very valid question and a very relevant question.

[Prakash Kapadia, analyst]

Sure. And lastly, one on life insurance. What kind of unwind rates do we expect in FY '23, given that we are seeing increase in interest rates across.

[S. Sreenivasan, executive]

Bharat?

[Bharat Kalsi, executive]

Yes, I'll take that. So see, we take our best estimate as of now for a long-term unwind debt is around 8%. As you rightly pointed out, there will always be some moving parts during the year. So having anything like saying by March and what it would be, it will be difficult because there are a few moving parts in terms of mark-to-market or the results which are over and above the -- normally, the site liability one has to keep it all those plays in, but 8% is what you can imagine as a steady-state unwinding rate for us.

[Operator]

Next question is from the line of Bharat Shah from ASK Investment Management Limited.

[Bharat Shah, analyst]

Two questions. One is on the competitive scenario in merchant kind of a picture. And second is more specific question about our -- 2 of our businesses.

Coming to the first one, I think last 3 years have been kind of a cataclysmic period for want of a better expression. COVID sudden heightened concern for insurance, sensitivity in digital models, tremendous flux and huge infusion of capital, and therefore, we've seen a significant number of changes, which have been including around competitively. And like we have seen in fintechs where a lot of technology players have come in, but with poor understanding of finance. We have seen similar insurance technology ambitions burning on the [indiscernible] fire.

Given all of these also the fact that digitization is an imperative so that much like pure technology without insurance, which is a very bad business. Good insurance without technology will also be a lender. And therefore, good mix of the 2, I think is emerging very clearly. So what are -- while what not to do, I think, is becoming increasingly more clear. What are the insights understandings and strategic priorities for Bajaj Finserv Insurance businesses in terms of what to do and what to achieve and how to go about it. In other words, the key strategic priority is given the tumultuous kind of changes which have happened in the last 3, 4 years.

[S. Sreenivasan, executive]

Thank you, Bharat. I think a very profound question I must say. In fact, insurance has also undergone a lot of changes, companies are trying out different models. And the way we look at digitization of the way we have achieved what we have is we have digitized a significant proportion of the customer experience, the entire chain of underwriting, the chain of the apps, which the distributors work today substantially more than 90% of the policies now are issued digitally. But this, you may say is just the base of -- because it has to be done. It is not something that you are doing which others may not do.

But going forward, buying insurance on digital means is a question mark, actually, because we find if you look at health insurance, for example, the products are not comparable across companies so customers require advice. And even today, I believe a substantial portion, more than 2/3 of the health insurance market is driven by agents and not even by banks. So in this market, I think both our companies will remain positive. We will continue to invest in our agency and other intermediation channels. At the same time, we will offer the customer in terms of claims, customer experience, servicing fairly 1-touch experience.

Both our insurance companies now are in the process of just rolling out their new policy admin system because the old systems that are available in the market and which we ourselves were using one of them have become outdated now. Unless you change the core, you will not have an agile flexible system which can incorporate the changes that the market demands. This is a very long process.

It is much longer for the life business, I must say, because of the every single policy we have sold pretty much has to be brought into the new system while they have to start with the new business as well. But having said that, in the health business, we rolled it out late last year. It is now stabilizing the retail health. We have now launched motor TP, then we will go for the other products, which is motor [ damage ] and then the commercial line when group has the [indiscernible].

So we think the bigger problem is not digital transformation. The bigger problem is that there are a lot of companies coming in, which are willing to burn money for an uncertain period of time. They -- we do not know what the long-term game is for some of them. Maybe they have their own strategies. Maybe they are trying to get market share. But for us, the balance between 3 things are important. First is the quality of service, which you give to the customers. In the long run, that is sustainable because customers who have good service will continue to be with you.

Number two, we want to grow. We want to grow in line with the market, better than the market, but only in the segment that we think there is sustainable profit. And thirdly, we want to enhance the experience for our intermediaries and customers. The only thing I think last time you pointed out, which is very valid was that we are not marketing our capabilities enough which I think both CEOs has taken [indiscernible] out. And I would now ask Tapan and then Bharat to maybe comment further on what the digital business is how they are looking at this trend.

[Tapan Singhel, executive]

I think Sreeni sum it up so well that there's not much to add to that. The only thing is that it's a constant evolution. I think the industry goes through. If I take the industry 20 years back, I think the motor claims settlement used to take 3 to 4 months and at that time the customer is happy with that also.

Today, the motor claims settlement is already cashless, we also have facility in which when an accident happens, within the limits as [ per IRDAI ] to get them in the car, click for the pictures, upload and transfer the money on the [ spot ]. So I think it's a constant evolution of how digitalization gets used.

But the difference between kind of a lending unit and insurance, the basic differences, and this question I asked a lot of people across the world, who has ever got up to buy insurance fee? Today, I'll buy insurance. I'm very excited to go buy insurance now. I have to find that.

But people look order to buy watches, clothes, cars and take loans, buy homes, they are excited about that. But insurance category is not something in which people likely get up to buy. But it's a category in which when somebody talks to the person, they realize importance of it. And it's an amazing product to have for the price which gives in the protection gives and then people buy. So it has always been a strong intermediary-driven business minus some transactional business happen.

So the digitization in insurance industry compared to a lending, the difference would be, it will incorporate the ease at the front end for the intermediaries at the same time and very different customer experience for the customer in the time of these claims of [indiscernible]. A lot of investment goes from the insurance industry on these parameters to make a huge difference.

And I said, if I just add a today, if I look at the health a bit, motor a bit, even the commercial claims are happening at the speed that this is happening compared to, let's say, even 5 or 7 years back, there's a phenomenal increase in that. And we, as a company, have been on the leading or cutting edge of it. I think most of the innovation that has been the new market. The ones that I mentioned, we are ahead of the curve and some of it was actually portion [indiscernible] that we bought to the industry here. So I think that is our obsession because as I mentioned earlier, the experience that the customer has with us is very important to us, and we keep on working towards that. Thank you for the question.

[Bharat Kalsi, executive]

Thank you. Thank you, Sreeni. Thank you, Tapan. See, for us, the -- I think Sreeni has anyway covered a lot of things and Tapan has also alluded to the fact that customer obsession is one of our focus area. If I put it broadly, the way we are looking at it has to be sustainable business at the overarching strategy for the company. Within that, there will be a lot of many initiatives which the company has already embarked upon, and we've been doing it for over almost last 5 years. So a few of them also includes now the focus on tech and analytics, which will anyways kind of get the efficiencies also and put us in the forefront in terms of innovations or in terms of...

[Unknown Executive]

[Foreign Language].

[Bharat Kalsi, executive]

Yes. Sorry, I think I'm on hold. I just continue. So as I said, our overall theme has been about sustainable and profitable growth. So it's not always about being tactical in the market. And within that, the few drivers which we always believe and we've been investing into is one on the tech and analytics part. Second is on the product innovations. And the third is we wanted to be the choice of distributors in terms of the integration experience in terms of the processes in terms of the people we provide them at the ground for all support. All those has been our focus areas. And to drive the overall business, we are also investing into a lot of new engines of growth, whether it is a channel in a channel strategy or whether that's going to the new market participants like Sreeni mentioned that we recently signed with DBS and CUB. So all those are our focus areas. That's where we are.

[S. Sreenivasan, executive]

Bharat Shah, just one more point to add to this. The insurance business, there are 2 things which will probably guide you towards assessing this question that you asked. One is that insurance historically follows the experience-based pricing. That means unlike finance and others, where you work on a lot of parameters, you identify the good risk from the bad risk, and try to focus more on the good risk. In insurance, you actually write volume because geography is important. And therefore, when you write a volume, you get to know the experience. And this is a business we can never be where you write only good business. Because if everybody all your customers don't have claims, they will stop insuring with you. So therefore, it's a question of mixing good with the bad. And the more volume you write initially, you will be able to then [ call ] out what you don't need or then using analytics, you will continuously refine that portfolio. So that is how you manage the risk in insurance.

And globally, I think it is still experience base, even the catastrophe and the large [indiscernible] based on experience, although there will be some input from external assessment of parameters that drive claims. Largely, I think it will be experience based. So this is 1 thing.

The second thing is the incidence of fraud is very high in both these businesses. The amount of benefit one can get for a small amount of premium is very large which is very attractive for the fraudsters to exploit. So therefore, we are spending a lot more. More companies have very strong what we call loss mitigation and fraud management departments, and we continuously invest in analytics there because we think that is very important. We don't want to have too much of these fraudulent claims, affecting the P&L. Even if it's a small percentage, it can actually [ bite ] into the profit margin is anyway very slim in this business. So these are 2 other things which will drive how we use it.

And lastly, even if you acquire a customer digitally, servicing them digitally, we are still way -- there's a long way to go. We have to deal with motor workshops. We have a deal with hospitals, many of them are not technically equipped to be able to get paid and settle claims fast, although that number is increasing, there's still a long way to go. And lastly, in terms of motor third-party claims, it is dealt with by more than 1,000 motor accident tribunals, and it's a legal process, which takes quite a long time. So these are things, even if I acquire customer digitally, and I want to do business digitally, I will have to invest in these -- in the traditional way. I must have people who will build these networks. I get people who manage these networks. I will like to have partner management so many other things. Along with the technology to support it to make it efficient. So it's a complex matter.

And I think evolve, we have to be agile and change, and that is the direction that we normally take. So digital for us does not mean B2C, it just means enhancing customer experience and partner experience.

I don't know if I've answered -- we have answered your question well or not, but I think off the top, this is what our thinking is.

[Bharat Shah, analyst]

No. Sreeni, Tapan, Bharat all have answered it well. It was less of a question. I was taking more of an assurance and reassurance that our model is not trying to get tempted into following technical path. Initially, I'm not worried on people who are ready to burn capital, who have more capital than less ideas. That mount of infinity happen time to time. Of course, it is painful for sensible players while capital is being spent loosely because it creates disturbance for some time. But eventually, it will get sorted out. It's an item business of risk. Those who are supposed to underwrite risk are following the business models require seemingly uninsured.

I mean, the -- also on a conventional player, who are large players when suddenly, there is a strategic change of the priority, where priority shifts to growth rather than capital efficiency, while I would have thought it is always both and never only one, it put some worries and doubts whether the companies are on the path or not. So it is more fitting confirmation in assurance that policies growth and altogether is what we are pursuing, then that answers it. Thank you.

[S. Sreenivasan, executive]

Thank you.

[Bharat Shah, analyst]

The second question is more specific One is about cross-selling. And second is about health insurance. I -- while I know cross-selling is easier said than done, but Bajaj Finance has shown the way in the finance business, how to use cross-selling as a tool very intelligently, not only to acquire more customers more efficiently with shorter time frames, but with better risk profile and reduce the cost of customer acquisition.

I understand the parallel doesn't follow similarly in insurance with some specificities of the insurance, but I think cross-selling is an idea somehow doesn't appear whether insurance businesses of Finserv really heavy at the top of the mine.

The second one is more specific there's an important large conventional opportunity like health. When we don't focus in good time and serious long-term players like you, one would have thought would you carved out a very large activity by now. Where we still are seemingly in a catch-up mode, and you're not trying to find our feet wet. So I thought on both of these wanted to understand the mind of the management.

[S. Sreenivasan, executive]

Right. I will take at the top level first and then Tapan and Bharat can add.

On the health business, you see we are very strong on group health, employer, employees. And unfortunately, that has been a business which always has been subject to pricing because it is an HR cost for companies. But over time, I think it is not that we are either aggressive or not aggressive, it is just that we do business on our terms where we see. For example, in corporate with employer, employee, you always know what were they claimed last year, how many employees they had, how their employee strength is going to grow, we can make a reasonable assessment. And with inflation, we know how much it is going to cost.

Now if somebody is going to bring 30% below the [ math ] , we obviously won't participate in that. But there are many components we are focusing more and more on the service aspect of it. And hopefully, our health company will also as it [ goes up ], we'll be able to deliver some more value onto that. So Tapan. Hello?

Yes. Coming to cross-selling, I think last 2 years, there has been a significant focus on both the companies on cross-selling. The problem with general insurance is that a value seeker eventually become the price seeker if they do not have the benefit of service.

Number two, while there are a large number of products, a lot of people are not, for example, if you take homes. The only way some amount of home insurance sold in India is only when it is bundled with the home loan. Otherwise, people around us do not buy it. Over time, hopefully, it will become more important for people to buy home insurance because something happens to the house or anything, then loan and other things will get repaid or has at least the losses recouped.

But there are many things like this. We have launched pet insurance. So the products are available now, but selling them is not that easy because people aren't as Tapan said, getting up every day morning saying that I want to find some insurance.

So cross-selling is on and on BAGIC, we're running a large [ e-program ] where we're trying to now -- but that will take a few more months before it is rolled out fully because it required a lot of capabilities to be built in the company. The analytic teams in both companies are now well established. They're working on a lot of data, and we will try to bring that. In BALIC again, getting the customer and keeping them with itself used to be a challenge for the industry. Now we are keeping them with higher persistency and all that.

The next step is obviously to ensure that they also give us more of their future savings. So from a pure opportunity perspective, what you said is right. Health is the population business. And therefore, over the next 15, 20 years, India will offer tremendous growth. In terms of life insurance, even nominal rate of GDP growth, 10%, 12%, the amount of savings pool coming into the industry is going to be huge.

So the opportunity is huge. The market is very competitive. Everybody is trying to take other people's share. But hopefully, as a strong company with both companies generating capital, we have the wherewithal to survive it. That's all, as I said at the top of the mind.

Tapan, are you there? Bharat, would you like to take it?

[Tapan Singhel, executive]

Yes, Sreeni. No. So if you look at that in the general insurance space, we are a big health insurers. I think the [indiscernible] side have done both in terms of the penetration of health, now they had arbitrage or they have an arbitrage in terms of the number of regions we can acquire without [indiscernible] any existing agents can become high agent. And that is one of the reasons why I think [indiscernible] did much better than the insurance company. So not that we are trying to get a fee to it. You would see that we are a major health insurance player in the Indian market as it is.

What we have been saying is that we want to scale it much further. We want to become the dominant player including the site led as time progresses. And the arbitrage, which may be there in acquiring agents. But that is perfectly fine. We have a massive distribution network. And how do we build on that? That is what we have been saying.

So first and foremost, I mean the point is that we already have people there in health insurance group. And we would be scaling it up further, taking it up. I think that is how we look at it.

Now if you look at health also with all this -- the entire industry working on, the entire total population covered would be the 14 crores, 15 crores of the number of policies. In fact, the government health insurance scheme covers about 40 crore Indians which would be there. So there is 70-odd crores, which is a machine middle. I think as the opportunity for growing health is huge. The way we look at it and how do we look at handling the [indiscernible] people, how do you put it together? That is what we have been saying. So I think it should not be misconstructed as that we are still trying to get our feet wet. No. We are firmly into it. We are a large dominant player into the market. And we see a huge opportunity in the Indian market context in terms of the health insurance can be there, and that is what we are working on to the point.

Cross-sell again, like Sreeni actually sum this up, that is something which I would say, when we look around which is not about, and that's when we compare different industries. It's like an apple-and-orange comparison. It gives the wrong perspective.

It should be compared within the industry. So let's look at in the general insurance industry. Across the world, if you look at the financial, we heard about the Wells Fargo story. We heard all the stories across the world of [ cross-sell ] have been there but has anybody heard about stories like this as I mentioned across the world or anywhere in the world.

So fundamentally, the way we look at cross-sell, it is very different from the way a financial services cross-sell will be happening. I think that is the stories also come up. And it is, again, because of the way company understand this category and how they look at it.

So I think more than cross-sell, what we should look at is that are we covering the customer for his entire protection, which I always believed strongly that a customer should have a good health insurance, a good home insurance, a good PA cover, a good cyber liability cover on a retail basis in terms of what is a good travel insurance cover. And we've done this cost much. I think 5 or 6 covers customers should have.

So the option should a company is that when somebody a customer, are we working hard enough to have a complete protection with the customer actually making him or her aware. I think that is our opportunity. And that obviously, in a very, I think, simple term, can be called cost. And I think our endeavor is to keep on doing that because we are obsessed about a customer. And we should see that something goes on the customers, we should have insured the customer and he should or not she should not be left uninsured. That is what the philosophy of the company are pushing. Thank you for the question. It's a very, very nice question.

[Bharat Kalsi, executive]

I think you covered most of the things. But with respect to BALIC, I think, again, we have to look at 2 things. One is the upsell part and there is a cross-sell part. So BALIC in terms of upsell has been, I think covering up good grounds, we are already seeing almost like 20% of new business comes through upsells now that is not specific to the Bajaj Group per se, but all our existing customers where we can further go back and sell them a next policy. So to that extent, upsell is working fine.

And from a cross-sell perspective, see, this has always been an opportunity. So if I specifically talk about, say, BFL customer base. Numbers are not as relevant as in terms of percentage to the business, but has this been Improving year-on-year? The answer is yes. Is there a group business with them is improving year-on-year on a strong growth? The answer is yes.

But given this is a small base and a large opportunity, have we really penetrated enough in that? Maybe it is still a journey which we are working on. And there are a lot of new initiatives which we have taken. So all in all, cross-sell within group is the further opportunity is there? The answer is yes. And otherwise on the upsell is BALIC there? The answer is also yes. That's where I will stop and happy to take any further questions on that.

[S. Sreenivasan, executive]

Thank you, Bharat.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] Next question is from the line of Dhaval from DSP.

[Dhaval Gada, analyst]

Am I audible?

[S. Sreenivasan, executive]

Yes. Yes.

[Dhaval Gada, analyst]

I had 3 questions. First was relating to in BAGIC, specifically, all 3 of them. The first one is relating to OpEx, like I think the group is -- and the company is making several investments on distribution and technology. So just curious to understand, as we progress into the year. How we think about OpEx and OpEx growth?

And the second question is relating to profitability. So at a high level in BAGIC, would you expect next couple of years revenue growth, like premium growth and profit growth to be broadly similar or there could be like investments up-front and benefits could come later, which means that profit growth will lag premium growth?

And the third question is more just sort of a more product-specific strategy. We've seen in the industry this embedded insurance business sort of pick up, be it trip insurance, mobile insurance, et cetera. All those categories have picked up. I just wanted to understand -- we have a very strong small ticket [ sachet ] insurance business. And also, technology is sort of one of the key pillars in this embedded insurance business. So I just wanted to understand how we think about this business? And is there a sort of a long-term game plan around sort of -- is it profitable? And is there a long-term game plan in this space? Yes. So those are the 3 questions.

[S. Sreenivasan, executive]

So broadly on the sachet, the sachet is a good way to acquire a customer. But then the industry has to be prepared, and the customer has be prepared to expand that sachet product into long-term [ indemnity ] products.

The insurance is not like some other services where there is a trigger, right? I buy a home or take a home loan, and they've taken a home loan, the company comes after me to collect the money. But insurance is a journey. And in the journey, they will -- first buy a product, if any product they can buy. But later on, usually, it is motor. But now some may enter, through sachet. And over time as awareness increases, they will buy more and more products, and the companies which are strong and we have the best product really and the best customer service. Hopefully, we have in a better position to attract those customers.

It is possible that 1 customer can have multiple products with multiple insurers. And there's nothing that prevents them from doing that. But this largely remains -- you cannot build a business on sachet unless you're willing to burn a lot of capital because it does not give you the risk/reward in terms of profitability is not there in that business.

The other question on OpEx and to add to what I said, I would need it to Raman and Tapan to handle it.

[Ramandeep Singh Sahni, executive]

So I'll take the one on OpEx, Sreeni. As Dhaval, you recall in the past also we've highlighted that our OpEx ratio over the last few years had gone a little higher. And last 2 years, I think we did a lot of consolidation. And if you look at the OpEx expense ratios, actually, they've been coming off quarter-on-quarter right over 2.5 years now.

But like I mentioned in the last call also, see there are investments which we had held back because of the pandemic. But I think now that the pandemic is behind us, we plan to scale up geographically on our distribution trend also in terms of technology. All of this is actually now being invested into. So just to give you some numbers, our peak head count used to be about 12,500 to 13,000 people. And during the course of the pandemic, we actually scaled it down, and we're down to about 8,500, 9,000 people. But given that the pandemic is behind us, now we'll start scaling the manpower front.

Plus we've also, like Sreeni mentioned earlier, we are investing a lot in technology. And with this massive transformation going on, on the policy admin side, we are running 2 systems parallelly our old policy admin system and the new one. So another 2 years, I think this parallel run and also doing a hybrid of the cloud and on-site, this will add to some amount of cost. So for at least 6 to 8 quarters from now, I believe that the investments will add to the cost. Productivity may or may not shape up the way we want it. So that's just a word of caution on the expense piece.

[S. Sreenivasan, executive]

Does that answer your question, Dhaval?

[Dhaval Gada, analyst]

Any comment on the profit growth versus sort of premium growth? Any broad high-level comments on that?

[S. Sreenivasan, executive]

Broadly, what happened when we made these investments, if there are fixed cost investments and operating leverage will take time to develop. We first invest then you get the business and in insurance, the premium that's accounted over 12 months. So it takes a lot of time to recognize the revenue while the claims and other costs come upfront. So there will be a cycle. However, we are, we'll have to balance that with our need to grow the profit as well as the opportunity that is there, the profit that the new business will give us.

That may take a couple of years to evolve. The one good positive sign is that over the next 2 to 3 years, it seems right. The investment yields are going up. So that should provide some cushion. The underwriting side, there are pressures of inflation, as Tapan pointed out. So this is balance out.

And I think we have a very rigorous long-term planning process across our group. And we also have backed off with a very strong annual operating plan, which runs a series of projects across the companies. And hopefully, that is the ability is to build capabilities. And sometimes we have to make some investments upfront. Luckily, we are in a good position that we are generating capital. So we do have money to invest, but if we have to see how the market goes.

[Dhaval Gada, analyst]

Got it. Just one small question on Bajaj Health. If you could broadly lay some context of how much Bajaj Finance contributes to the current business in terms of -- be it the user base or paying user. I mean some way of explaining how much is own organic effort and how much comes from one of the...

[S. Sreenivasan, executive]

I don't have the exact number, and we're not disclosing that. But Bajaj Finance is selling health cards along with its loans. However the big thing for them is that the health cards when people want to use the service of doctors or diagnostic centers and all. They need Bajaj Finserv Health to provide that service. So there is a base cost, and there is the loading on that.

So on the OPD side, the B2C product that we sell on the [ B2B2C ], but a lot of it is done by Bajaj Finance, they do a lot of direct business also through their digital marketing.

In addition, they also offer the service, the health brand rider of [indiscernible] in so help, so they will be investing. We are also doing some other pilots on some other areas, and we hope there is enough opportunity there as well outside of illness, they will be focusing more on wellness.

We think the business is scaling up quite well. We are about 100,000 doctors now. And the number of customers using our app is also increasing. Our apps are highly rated on the Play Store. We are quite confident. It's a growing ecosystem. We are a way 1 partner for the National Digital Health Mission. So we are there. I think the -- whether customer is ready or not, we are helping them get ready, and I think we are seeing the initial and people are liking it.

[Operator]

Next question is from the line of Sanketh Godha from Spark Capital.

[Sanketh Godha, analyst]

Sir, I just wanted to understand the motor OD part a little bit better given we have reported loss ratio which is probably the highest that we have reported in many, many quarters.

So you alluded to the point digitalization. So just wanted to know whether we are able to do a price correction because inflation is now real. And are competition is not allowing it to take a [indiscernible] price hike. And [ therefore, before from ] full year point of view, should we see these numbers to remain at these levels. That's on motor OD.

And similarly on TP, you alluded to the point that you will need [indiscernible] reserve or we have been conservative. But how do you see this full year to play out this 8%, 9% market [indiscernible]. That's on a BAGIC. And I have a couple of questions on BALIC which is can I ask after you answer this.

[S. Sreenivasan, executive]

So first, I think at the top level, I think you are saying what is happening in airports across the world in terms of their ability to handle the what you call the pent-up demand, the people wanting to travel. Somewhat I think motor is like that.

Having said that, when the claims happen in motor, it's not of the current book that you're writing, it is always at the past book. And then there has been a period when the auto sales have been down, you will find that later on, a year or 2 down the line, you have higher claims because the premiums you were not sufficient to cover that. So this is cyclical and as auto sales pick up overall. We think this is get evened out. Many cities I think metro work is going on, causing traffic chaos and -- so that is another factor that you see number of cars on the road, and the roads are not expanding every day, it's obviously causing some extra frequency.

In terms of pricing in motor is the open pricing. It's not like there is a fixed price, and it depends on the segment you want to target, intermediary through which you are dealing with and how you can get them at a price.

Tapan, would you like to add to that?

[Tapan Singhel, executive]

No, I think what you said Sreeni is the answer. So if you look at it and basically we give to everybody. You go out on the street today, you see more motor vehicle on the street, on highways compared to even pre-COVID time also. So the frequency of claims obviously goes up because in more vehicles that hit the road, there would be. Coupled with frequency, we also have severity increase the inflation. These 2 would play out.

Now is this a permanent phenomenon? Or will it now over time balance out is what the question should be in terms of -- because that is how to determine how the loss ratios have moved and made with [ short-term phenomenon ].

Now for the next at least a couple of quarters, this would play out because as Sreeni also mentioned, the pricing is on the past assumptions and the [indiscernible] frequency and inflation is not something somebody has -- would have predicted, [indiscernible] so high. So obviously, it will take a couple of quarters before we can correct itself in the market as it progresses, which would be there to answer your question. Do you see immediate correction? No. It takes some time into the correction would happen on that. But does the phenomena remain like this? Does it ease out? Other questions that have to be answered to get your pricing right as it [indiscernible].

[Sanketh Godha, analyst]

Got it. On motor TP side, sir?

[Tapan Singhel, executive]

If we look at, the reserving happens on the assumption of how the frequency is and how the settlement is happening. On both -- if you look at the inflation and the TP settlement also and if you look at the inflation [indiscernible] also, it has increased there also. So the company, I think, are very careful to look at also when we publish our triangle as we call it. You already see that we have releases. So we are [indiscernible]. I think the word but too much about price you do not speak yet.

So kind of point in TP also, we see increase in frequency, and we see that. As a company, and that is why we publish these triangles also, you always see there will be a reserve release is sure that we are very, very clear in terms of our reserving and a very good reserving authority that we follow at all points of time. So when you see this happens obviously strengthen it now. We feel that in times to come, the TP would start with 10 minute again. But let us say, over time, which is needed out [indiscernible] drops, then obviously, there will be a release again in terms of how to sell it, but it's always better to caution and reserving. We tend to go overboard on reserving. So that's what we did.

[Sanketh Godha, analyst]

Got it, sir. Sir, on Bajaj Life, this just a couple of data keeping questions just wanted to understand how much Axis Bank would have contributed to the total premium growth -- or how much is contributed the usual rating period in the current year -- in the current quarters rather?

And second thing is that protection business is still putting place to house a traction because all other products have done very well. The production business still has declined. So how do see -- especially the individual protection. And so how do you see that to play out going ahead?

And then finally, on margin, I just wanted to understand 11.1% margin in the current quarter. Can we expect the full year to be closer to 20% or given the product mix and the cost coverage if this might [indiscernible] by the end of the year?

[Bharat Kalsi, executive]

I'll take the questions in the order. So your first question was about the Axis Bank contribution. So if you know that what has happened in the Axis Bank branch banking, we started sometime last year, second half. So obviously, this first half, it will have some contribution effect in terms of base not being there from a branch banking. We were always in the liability sale for the last 2, 2.5 years. With that, for time being the share of Axis Bank in our business is around 25%. That's for the first quarter only.

Your second question was on the protection. So see the protection, as you would have seen for everyone, the protection business, either in absolute or as a percentage has come down. But if you look at on a sequential basis, our protection mix is there and thereabout, rather it has just marginally up only but only a few basis points.

And what is happening in the overall protection space? As you know, that people are now a little bit more calibrated as to how they are taking. Companies are undergoing a lot of underwriting processes change given what has happened with in the past and the reinsurer arrangement is changing. And we are also going with a very calibrated approach in terms of how we want to take the risk on the books, whether it is strengthening the underwriting practices or the reinsurer pricing and all.

What we have also done, we have launched another, rather relaunched another product with a lot many new features and a better underwriting process. So I hope as the market grows up, back on the protection business, our share is expected to be improving on a quarter-on-quarter basis. So that's on the protection side.

Third year was on the NBM, which is at 11% for the quarter as we never provide any forward-looking guidance on the full year basis. But as Sreeni, in the opening remark also mentioned that having a quarter 1 with a double-digit number, I think it's a good start. Last year, our full year number was around 14.2%. So I think we are on the right trajectory. Not many things it depends on how the year ends in terms of growth, product mix, what happens to protection, other nonpower savings playing in. So, and overall business cost and all. So there's no forward-looking number per se. But as I mentioned, we are on the right track. So hopefully, we'll have a good year at the -- by the time we reach March. I hope that answer.

[Operator]

Next question is from the line of Ashish Sharma from Enam Asset Management.

[Ashish Sharma, analyst]

Just as one point on -- I mean, first of all, again, congratulating, again you for sharing this data on Bajaj Markets and Bajaj Health. So just wondering in terms of in your assessment, the data. I mean, any metric you're tracking. Is the performance better than what your expectations were? Or I mean, is there further headroom for metric to sort of grow. So one would be on that.

And second would be on in terms of investments. So we've already infused around INR 807 crores in Bajaj Markets. I mean, what -- I mean, do we further need to invest in the ecosystem? That would be the second question, sir.

[S. Sreenivasan, executive]

Yes. See, it is an evolving business. We have to look at it like a startup, right? So when you look at it like that, I think the companies have done remarkably well. They are well better than our plan. If you look at filter markets, for example, which is the older of the 2. You can see the metrics are all shaping up quite well. We have organic visits, which is about 5 million customers. We have INR 104 crores of revenue which is the revenue there and that registrations are going up. We have 1.3 million app registrations. And we have 140,000 transacting customers. Obviously, as the kind of variety of products that they sell from high ticket to low ticket. Obviously, they will have, have to focus on these metrics in improving these.

From a capital perspective, we think that they are good till FY '24. After that, if the business model scales up further and we reach our goals, there is a possibility that FY '25 on the existing business that we will start cash breakeven. There's our goal. I'm not saying that we'll reach that or not. There we'll have to wait and see because it's a long way ahead.

But incremental capital requirement, we think will be less. However, if growth is significantly higher than what we anticipated, clearly, we will need to continue to create capability. A lot of the investment we do is largely on people and technology required at the background to drive a digital business like this and in building the network of partners and expanding the product range that we offer. So we'll continue to focus on that. And as a concept as a business, I think the path is clear for us.

[Ashish Sharma, analyst]

Okay. Okay. Sir, just clarifying, so we have given transacting customers and visits. And first of all, this is only an app platform, right?

[Sanjivnayan Bajaj, executive]

Yes. Yes. Yes. App and [indiscernible].

[Ashish Sharma, analyst]

And so the 3 million -- 1.3 million, which you just mentioned.

[S. Sreenivasan, executive]

That's right. That's right. These are downloading the app. Yes.

[Ashish Sharma, analyst]

Okay. Great. Fine sir. And just lastly, I mean, I think we've touched a lot or discussed a lot on the combined ratio part. I mean, based on what we have sort of mentioned, so I mean, for the next couple of quarters the combined ratio even for BAGIC usually, in the history, we always sort of have seen that combined ratio had remained below 100%. But given the competitive intensity, even for BAGIC next couple of quarters, the combined ratio above 100%. Is that what we are guiding given the challenging environment?

[S. Sreenivasan, executive]

Yes. We are not giving any guidance. We don't do that. All we are saying is that, yes, this quarter, we have grown quite well. We have earned premium has grown only [ 2%. ] So on the one side, what a premium we have booked till now will get earned over the next few quarters. At the same time, we'll continue to grow. And as Raman said, we'll also be continuing to make investments in expanding distribution, technology, analytics and all that. So there will be some element of cost for as an investment.

And the claims we have already discussed at length. There is an element of uncertainty how they will pan out. As they all come, the combined ratio is a result of all that. Our focus is on continuing to do what we do well, underwrite well, do good business, return well, invest the cash flows and earn return on that. We'll continue to do that. And I hope that as things turn out will be agile enough to. We do that. Yes.

I think we'll take just one more question. It's already overshot the time.

[Operator]

The last question is from the line of Anand Bhavnani from White Oak Capital.

[Unknown Analyst]

Sir, just wondering for our Bajaj Markets, do you have any specific numbers as targets like for -- by the finance equivalent, we had some targets that I shared, so for Markets, do we have any such targets for the full year or coming quarter?

[S. Sreenivasan, executive]

It's emerging business and whatever targets we put can go either way. So we don't actually give targets for any of our company. Bajaj Finance does that sometimes as a general guide as to the range at which they would like to operate. So we are showing the numbers, and we will continue showing these numbers every quarter. Let's see how it goes. We have explained what we want to do in 1 slide, and we have given the key metrics that we think are to be tracked for both our businesses as we go along. But I think the revenue is an important factor to generate our [indiscernible] revenue. I mean of that revenue is around [ 6% ]. But we are generating good revenue from both the companies. I mean that's very important for a startup.

[Unknown Analyst]

Noted. Okay. And sir, secondly, on the health card, how many health card have we kind of sold in the quarter? And what percentage would have the Bajaj has?

[S. Sreenivasan, executive]

Bajaj customers [indiscernible] paying customers.

[Unknown Analyst]

Okay. So all the transacting customers are [indiscernible].

[S. Sreenivasan, executive]

Are using their [indiscernible], yes.

[Unknown Analyst]

And what percentage would have been through Bajaj, so we have 490 -- 4,93,000?

[Tapan Singhel, executive]

That we don't know. I mean, a lot of it will be through Bajaj Finance, but Bajaj Finance is only a distributor. Ultimately, the services is the card you sell today, but you have to provide the service right. They run the selling cards and that is where the capability to use of Bajaj Finserv Health.

[Operator]

Thank you. Due to time constraints, we have reached the end of question-and-answer session. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Anuj Narula for closing comments.

[Unknown Analyst]

Thank you. On behalf of JM Financial, I would like to thank Mr. Sreeni, sir, the senior management team of the insurance businesses and all participants who have joined us on the call today. Thank you, and have a good day.

[S. Sreenivasan, executive]

Thank you all.

[Operator]

Thank you. On behalf of JM Financial, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.

[Tapan Singhel, executive]

Thank you.