Arvind Smartspaces Ltd
NSE:ARVSMART
| US |
|
Fubotv Inc
NYSE:FUBO
|
Media
|
| US |
|
Bank of America Corp
NYSE:BAC
|
Banking
|
| US |
|
Palantir Technologies Inc
NYSE:PLTR
|
Technology
|
| US |
C
|
C3.ai Inc
NYSE:AI
|
Technology
|
| US |
|
Uber Technologies Inc
NYSE:UBER
|
Road & Rail
|
| CN |
|
NIO Inc
NYSE:NIO
|
Automobiles
|
| US |
|
Fluor Corp
NYSE:FLR
|
Construction
|
| US |
|
Jacobs Engineering Group Inc
NYSE:J
|
Professional Services
|
| US |
|
TopBuild Corp
NYSE:BLD
|
Consumer products
|
| US |
|
Abbott Laboratories
NYSE:ABT
|
Health Care
|
| US |
|
Chevron Corp
NYSE:CVX
|
Energy
|
| US |
|
Occidental Petroleum Corp
NYSE:OXY
|
Energy
|
| US |
|
Matrix Service Co
NASDAQ:MTRX
|
Construction
|
| US |
|
Automatic Data Processing Inc
NASDAQ:ADP
|
Technology
|
| US |
|
Qualcomm Inc
NASDAQ:QCOM
|
Semiconductors
|
| US |
|
Ambarella Inc
NASDAQ:AMBA
|
Semiconductors
|
If you don’t study any companies, you have the same success buying stocks as you do in a poker game if you bet without looking at your cards.
Utilize notes to systematically review your investment decisions. By reflecting on past outcomes, you can discern effective strategies and identify those that underperformed. This continuous feedback loop enables you to adapt and refine your approach, optimizing for future success.
Each note serves as a learning point, offering insights into your decision-making processes. Over time, you'll accumulate a personalized database of knowledge, enhancing your ability to make informed decisions quickly and effectively.
With a comprehensive record of your investment history at your fingertips, you can compare current opportunities against past experiences. This not only bolsters your confidence but also ensures that each decision is grounded in a well-documented rationale.
Do you really want to delete this note?
This action cannot be undone.
| 52 Week Range |
375.95
957.2
|
| Price Target |
|
We'll email you a reminder when the closing price reaches INR.
Choose the stock you wish to monitor with a price alert.
|
|
Fubotv Inc
NYSE:FUBO
|
US |
|
|
Bank of America Corp
NYSE:BAC
|
US |
|
|
Palantir Technologies Inc
NYSE:PLTR
|
US |
|
C
|
C3.ai Inc
NYSE:AI
|
US |
|
|
Uber Technologies Inc
NYSE:UBER
|
US |
|
|
NIO Inc
NYSE:NIO
|
CN |
|
|
Fluor Corp
NYSE:FLR
|
US |
|
|
Jacobs Engineering Group Inc
NYSE:J
|
US |
|
|
TopBuild Corp
NYSE:BLD
|
US |
|
|
Abbott Laboratories
NYSE:ABT
|
US |
|
|
Chevron Corp
NYSE:CVX
|
US |
|
|
Occidental Petroleum Corp
NYSE:OXY
|
US |
|
|
Matrix Service Co
NASDAQ:MTRX
|
US |
|
|
Automatic Data Processing Inc
NASDAQ:ADP
|
US |
|
|
Qualcomm Inc
NASDAQ:QCOM
|
US |
|
|
Ambarella Inc
NASDAQ:AMBA
|
US |
This alert will be permanently deleted.
Arvind Smartspaces Ltd
You don't have any saved screeners yet
Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q4 FY '24 Earnings Conference Call of Arvind SmartSpaces Limited.
[Operator Instructions]
Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Amit Sharma from Adfactors PR. Thank you, and over to you.
Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us on the Q4 and FY '24 Results Conference Call of Arvind SmartSpaces Limited. We have with us today on the call, Mr. Kamal Singal Managing Director and CEO; Mr. Avinash Suresh, Chief Operating Officer; Mr. Prakash Makwana, Company Secretary; Mr. Devang Kansara, Head Finance; and Mr. Vikram Rajput, Head, Investor Relations.
Please note that a copy of the disclosures is available on the Investors section of the website of Arvind SmartSpaces Limited as well as on the stock exchanges. Please do note that anything said on this call that reflects the outlook towards the future, which would be construed as a forward-looking statement must be reviewed in conjunction with the risk that the company possesses. I would like to now hand over the call to Mr. Kamal Singal for his opening remarks. Over to you, sir.
Thank you. Thanks a lot, and very good afternoon to everybody. Thank you for joining us today to discuss operating and financial performance of Arvind SmartSpaces for the quarter ended 31st March '24. The Indian economy has continued to show remarkable resilience and his performance has had a profound impact on its real estate sector. As we look back at the year, which concluded and message about the future, the landscape of Indian real estate sector appears to be both promising and dynamic. The trajectory that the sector has embarked upon over the last few years, set the stage for unprecedented growth and transformation. With each passing year, the prospects of real estate sector in India from [indiscernible] guided by shifting demographics, technical technological advancements and policy interventions.
Preferences have evolved across all segments from affordable housing to luxury properties, MIG and upper MIG non-Encompass smart home sustainability and community-centric designs, reflecting a shift towards integrated lifestyle. What provides optimism about the organized real estate company consistently outperforming, the unorganized is the vast sector and whom waiting to be converted. Around 80% of India's real estate sector continues to be unorganized as more homebuyers seek to buy into gated integrated complexes as opposed to stand-alone homes built by unorganized players, we see the share of organized sectors in Indian real estate sector growing faster.
The noteworthy improvement in our FY '24 performance is due to this widening opportunity for real estate organized real estate players and more importantly, ASL's ability to capitalize on this transforming sectorial reality. We are pleased to share that FY '24 has been a landmark year for the company with milestones achieved across bookings, collections and business development. The company has recorded the highest ever a booking of INR 1,107 crores, a growth of 38% year-on-year. Then Arvind continues to be received strongly by the homebuyers across new micro markets. Our new launches, including Uplands 2.0 and 3.0, forest trails, Arvind [indiscernible] and [indiscernible] contributed to around 70% of our booking value for the year.
Our Bangalore business remains very strong, with booking value of INR 420 crores, contributing to 38% of the total annual bookings. From a quarterly perspective, we had booking of INR 323 crores, a growth of 32% year-on-year. We launched Arvind [indiscernible] in Bangalore in Q4 where we sold entire release inventory for a sales value of around INR 163 crores within 7 hours of its launch. Further, we launched [indiscernible] of life at Laxman [indiscernible] Ahemdabad towards end of Q4 where we achieved a within Q4, which was 75% of the launch in this.
Over the years, ASLs deepened its competence and insights into horizontal property development niche the company is being recognized amongst the thought leaders in urban life quality. It is being respected for developing designed to inspire homes. It is being recognized for its capacity to create a market and then occupy the largest share there in. ASM protected world class plug houses first within its property developments, creating attraction -- very significant attraction for the home buyers. The result is that every single of our properties has enjoyed a post launch momentum and interaction that has only grown. This has helped us generate progressively better realizations. Additionally, the result of this positioning is that our customers have become our biggest market agents.
In FY '24, 22% of our overall bookings came from reference. FY '24 marked an orbital change in our business development efforts, and we acquired new projects with an estimated top line of INR 4,150 crores against a total of INR 930 crores that we achieved in the financial year '23. We have added 4 new projects in Ahmedabad and one each in Bangalore and Surat. We look forward to sustaining this momentum in coming years as well as to some extent repaid towards the development of apartment projects. I would like to mention here that while all the launches during the year were largely horizontals, the deliveries were majorly in vertical high-rise apartments. Historically, we have done at both horizontal and vertical real estate and will maintain an equilibrium between the same going forward.
Financial year '24 collections are at INR 876 crores, a growth of 46% year-on-year. We are the highest ever -- which are the highest ever in the company's history. Quarterly collections were robust at INR 215 crores, which has shown a growth of 14% for the quarter. This performance is a result of efficient execution of the virtuous process of sales, registrations, construction and delivery.
Now moving on from operational updates to the financial highlights. FY '24, we reported a revenue of INR 341 crores up 33% year-on-year basis. EBITDA grew at 57% to INR 85.5 crores. PAT for the year '24 grew 62% to INR 41.6 crores. In Q4, we reported a revenue of around INR 117 crores, up 27%. EBITDA grew by 38% at INR 28.6 crores and PAT grew by 67% to INR 15.5 crores. Our balance sheet position remains very strong despite expanding operations. Net debt stood at negative INR 41 crores as on 31 March '24, from a debt net position of negative 30 as on March '23.
A crucial parameter in real estate reflecting the underlying business performance quite well is operating cash flows, strong collections and profitability resulted in a net operating cash flow of INR 458 crores for the financial year '24 and INR 98 crores for the quarter 4. We estimate an unrealized operating cash flows exceeding INR 2,563 crores coming from the current pipeline of projects.
As a company, the focus always remains on shareholder value creation, we are happy to inform that the Board of Directors have recommended a final dividend of INR 2.5 per equity share. and a special dividend of INR 1 per equity share, totaling a dividend of INR 3.5 per share of a face value of each. This marks consecutive years of dividend distribution for the company.
To conclude, with an all-time low inventory overhang and a decadal high average pricing growth, demand optimism in the residential market is likely to continue in the medium term. At Arvind SmartSpaces, the virtuous cycle, the sustainability of growth is derived from the fact that outperformance during the last financial year was not a result of a temporary arbitrage. It was the result of a systematic maturing of operations and business.
The complement of processes, systems, protocols, priorities, now represent a base that we will -- that will be scaled up within the prudential financial disciple. We also believe that should any outsized opportunities emerge, we'll be equipped to leverage the undergrad nature of our balance sheet.
In view of this, we are optimistic of sustaining our momentum of raising our game should the reality warrants. We are set to further deepen our presence in Gujarat, Bangalore and the market of Maharashtra. With this, I'll ask the moderator to finally open the floor for questions and answers.
[Operator Instructions]
We'll take a first question from the line of Dhananjay Mishra from Sunidhi Securities.
Congratulations on very strong operating performance and strong booking and collection ever. So my question is with respect to last year, we had 4 launches. So how many launches you are seeing in this year in terms of our upcoming launches? Or in terms of PAT, we had done very well in FY '24. So what are your target? And thirdly, on SDFC Platform 2, we have only 3 projects. So what is the total investment till now and this year, what is your target on SGFC platform 2?
Yes. So 2, 3 questions really. First 1 is in terms of how many projects we're anticipating to launch during the year, the answer would be that, yes, last year, we had 4 and we should be doing anything like 7 to 9 project launch this year. It could exceed this number as well, but 6 to 8 is the minimum we are looking at launches, which includes phases, new phase of designated projects and all new projects that we have in our pipeline. .
The second question was related to SGFC platform. Yes, I mean, there, we have deployed around INR 300 crores of money. In fact, a couple of projects have already been exited and being paid for paid back or SGFC as a fund. The opportunity that we had in the beginning of the year was around INR 900 crores, and although with only INR 300 crores have been deployed. We had 2 targets when we started the year. It was about adding INR 4,000 crores to INR 5,000 crores of worth of projects which we did actually. Now while doing so, 3 things happen simultaneously.
One is that we end up consuming INR 300 crores from the SDFC platform. The other is a very, very strong internal approvals, which we saw in excess of INR 400 crores have been generated and broadly that entire amount has gone into execution of newer projects. So in any case, you ended up deploying around INR 700 crores in new projects, including the SDFC platform already. And on top of that, we had a very heavy mix of JD that MRV and these are very interesting projects, large projects, long-term value creating projects where the margins are good and the capital deployment is pretty lean to that extent.
So on one hand, we could achieve our target of creating the pipeline. And on the other hand, the cost of capital has been kept at very low levels, and we underutilized the platform to that extent. Idea is to exhaust the platform this year. And obviously, this money which has been spared should get deployed in this coming year.
Okay. Okay. So the INR 700 crores remaining maybe because we had a good internal approvals, so we have gone our own and not many projects have been launching this HDFC platform. So this year, we may target to deploy all that. Right. And what is our sales VCS target for this year? .
Target for BD?
BD as well as the sales target for FY '25?
So as a generic this thing, we know that in almost all our calls, we communicate and target to grow by 30% to 35% in all the major operating parameters and maybe it is top line, EBITDA, et cetera, et cetera. And that should hold true for BD as well. So we've achieved INR 1,100-plus crores worth of fresh sales this year, and we should grow 30%, 35% this year as well. We achieved more than INR 4,000 crores of projects, a new pipeline in this year, and that should also see something similar in terms of growth for the current year.
And lastly, the more accretion will happen in vertical side? Or I mean, as you said that we want to maintain a balance?
So end of the day, it's about having projects which make sense both on the top line, bottom line return on equity, return on time, return on effort, return on bandwidth, et cetera, et cetera. So as we are open to both the categories, it has so happened that horizontal is a little heavy for the last couple of years. But having said, we are equally focusing on vertical as well. As we speak, there are a couple of very, very interesting options being evaluated and finalized. So you will see a good amount of vertical projects getting into the portfolio very so. So it will be -- I mean, the target is to keep a balance, and you'll see that balance coming back in the coming quarters.
We'll take our next question from the line of Pranav Manohar from Robo Capital.
Congratulations for the good set of numbers. My question is, so on a reported basis, what will be our revenue and EBITDA margins for '25, '26, if you could provide any figures?
So we don't give any specific guidance on the financial numbers. From MIS point of view, fresh deals, et cetera, can be understood from the growth that you are targeting per se, which will be 30%, 35%, I mean, in general sense. But I mean in the sense, we don't really give any guidance for the P&L and the financial numbers.
Okay. So 30%, 35% is applied to basically all the major metrics, right? Is that right?
Yes, so we've been -- that's how the track record has been that's our effort, and that's what will strive to continue to do, yes, for sure.
Right. And the for this is a reported basis, right? .
I mean operating and reporting both, yes.
We'll take our next question from the line of Ritwik Sheth from Ono Financial.
Congratulations on great FY '24. So a few questions from my end. Firstly, sir, 1 of the projects, Arvind fruits of life. You've mentioned in the presentation that we had acquired it and turned it around and given the exit to HDFC platform too. Just wanted to understand on these projects. I believe this is the first project that we have already returned the capital to both via the HDFC platform to. So just wanted to understand what kind of IRRs did both the partners make on this? And yes on that, mainly on the IRR, if you can give us some color, that would be helpful.
So I mean, Ritwik as you very rightly said, we gave exit from platform 2, this is the first exec, although just before that, we gave SGFC exit from the first platform itself where we did some very large projects with the name margin statements, while the project still continues to grow and sell and give us very positive cash flows, SDFC platform from there as well. So all in all, between Platform 1 and 2, we are now giving it to 2 projects out of the 3 that we've taken up in a away from these 2 platforms. .
IRR is specific information that we don't intend to share that is not still there in the domain, for the big domain. And hence, it will still remain like that. But having said that, they have made decent money. Obviously, they have achieved their intended and kind of expected IRRs. And with this less money with the kind of arbitrage that deloper should have expected, we made disproportionate money on the share that we contributed when it came to investing in the projects. So all in all, it is it has achieved and more than achieved all its intended objectives, but to specify IRR specifically something which is confidential between the partners and hence, it can't be shared.
Sure. Sir, where I was coming from 1 of the reasons was the OCF to presale for Arvind Smart is about 40% in FY '24. And if we look at other peers who are major into vertical high-rise are anywhere from 20% to 30%. So we are significantly above that figure. So would you attribute that higher OCF to presales because of the horizontal plotting, would that be a fair understanding? And the IRRs in these would be far higher than the residential because the time taken to turn these projects around is significantly lower. So I just wanted to -- I was coming from that angle. So you wanted your thoughts on that.
Sure. Rithik, you hit the nail on the head. I mean this is as you mentioned where their horizontal projects the way they have operated in the last few quarters. flows in absolute sales a little faster than the vertical ones, in fact, significantly faster than the vertical ones, firstly, the lead time to launch its selfie comparatively lesser. And then the payment terms as per that they are front flowers and getting back loaded, which is the case for the vertical. So to that extent, yes, the cash flows have been boosted because of significant component of their being of horizontal.
But having said that, 40% of cash flows are extraordinary. They are quite high. And of course, this is a result of what we lost, how we launch, how fast we launch and how fast we collect it, et cetera, et cetera. And within a given period, what was the ratio for horizontal vis-a-vis overall product mix. While it is great and we will keep something which is extraordinary in that trend, it might not be the same on an average basis for, say, 3 to 4 years put together. And hence, a little first thing going here and things remaining more like a 25% thereabouts as free cash flow more like a steady-state situation, and that should how it should be countered. But yes, last year has been absolutely exceptional and great for us in terms of cash flow vis-a-vis things.
Got it. Okay. So -- and you mentioned that we'll have a balance of vertical versus horizontal. So would it be fair to assume that 25%, 30% would be vertical and balance would be horizontal that would be a good mix?
Yes. I mean, eventually in the long term, maybe I mean, might even be 50-50. And in the medium term, it might vary anything between 1/3 to 50% and balance from this thing. So within a range of 33% to 50% vertical or the balance would change, could be. .
Okay. Got it. Got it. Sure. And sir, 1 more question is on business development. You mentioned that 30%, 35% growth. So that translates close to INR 5,000 crores. So what would be the deployment for this for this INR 5,000 crores of projects to be acquired in FY '25?
So I mean, it can be looked into -- from many angles, so to say, what is available to be invested is around INR 600 crores in the platform itself out of INR 900 crores, INR 300 crores. So [indiscernible] yet to be deployed. We are sitting on a on a INR 50 crore odd positive cash, and you're hoping that will also generate to INR 300 crores of free cash again this year. I mean just going by the average that you're talking about right now. So almost INR 1,000 crores between SGFC, internal approvals, and a little bit of debt that will start hedging this year even if it is as low as INR 150 crores, INR 200, INR 300 crores. So we are talking about something like INR 1,000 crores to INR 1,200 crores getting deployed through these 3 courses. And that should give -- comfortably give us a top line of something which is 30%, 35% than what we achieved in the last year. .
Okay. And would it be -- just 1 last question. Would it be fair to assume that launches in the current year could be close to INR 1,800 crores to INR 2,000 crores depending on the approval and thereabouts?
Yes. I mean, broadly, the number you're saying is in the range of variability that we also would have in the mind, yes.
We'll take a next question from the line of Ronald Siyoni from Sharekhan Limited.
Congratulations on a great set of numbers. Sir, on the BD pipeline, we have been a little bit slow during quarter 4 and yet we are talking about INR 5,000 crores in FY '25, and we were also looking for a deal in Mumbai. If you can talk upon what kind of deals we are getting and whether any Mumbai deal is likely in the near term at least in H1 FY '25?
Yes. So I mean, as we said, we added a little more than INR 4,000 crores last year. And as we speak, as I mentioned in the beginning remarks, we sitting on some very interesting projects in terms of pipeline being created, very decent progress already done on those 3 to 4 projects that we're talking about. They are still not announced because we still think that we'll cross the last hurdle of making sure that even the diligence side of it is all here. But as we speak, the pipeline is very, very healthy. And we are very confident that a growth of around 30%, which makes overall I tend to be more like INR 5,000 crores, INR 5,500 crores to be added this year should be absolutely achievable and enough and more funds are available.
Of course, it all depends upon what is the component of JD, et cetera, which remains the amount of money which might be required to be invested. But having said that, even a conservative estimate of what will come away in the form of Js and outright, the money is more than enough so we are all set.
Mumbai, yes, we have been a little conservative on a lot of projects and a lot of options are being evaluated. We keep cutting close to acquiring 1 or 2 projects are now and then -- and -- but I mean, it has not reached the finality, so to say. But we are very confident that within this quarter or next quarter, we should be able to acquire 1 -- at least 1 or 2 large projects within the market of Pune and Mumbai together.
Okay. Great. And -- on the debt side also, like INR 300 crores to INR 400 crores what we were expecting to raise during this year. So this will be towards the agar it depends on the BD acquisitions we will be doing?
So naturally, any debt is a function of BD, and it's also a function of how we prioritize our cash outflows till the time, obviously, we have internal approvals and services already available. We'll absorb them first in the BD then comes the debt from the banks because that's cheaper, effectively cheaper and then comes the platform. So in this priority, we'll obviously consume these sources. And obviously, it will be spread over the entire year. It's not going to be happening in 1 or 2 quarters. All these comes at the end of INR 1,000,020 crores that we're talking about some pricing these 3 things will be spread over all the 4 quarters.
And lastly, on the solar project, like late we launched during quarter 3 of Q4 and whether it would be in phases, I believe INR 1,110 crores would be the project size. So have you shocked out any plans with respect to the phases and lately when it will be launched?
Solar is a large project. Of course, such large projects are normally done in 2 or 3 phases. On the size of phase, phases can change and this can be -- this is a little variable depending on what kind of response we get. So that's how it's going to be. We'll be launching 30 to 40 [indiscernible] in first floor and then see how the market goes and what kind of peaking, if it all needs to be done in the product, et cetera.
To that extent, we always remain flexible, but we would have detailed any flexibility to be incorporated into the product mix on a very handy basis. And we can see we normally do it on a run time so that if the sales momentum is there, We think it should not become an intense and it should be a seamless kind of sequence, et cetera. So all that is being done. Our idea is to launch it more towards end of quarter 2, which might spill over into quarter 3, every quarter 3, and that's how the plan is.
We'll take the next question from the line of Chaitanya Shah from Silver Line Capital. .
So my question is regarding the business development that you did this year that you guided for next year. Now if you see there's a quantum jump in the business development, I think FY '23 was close to INR 1,000 crores, and this year was close to INR 4,000 crores. So shouldn't the launches also see such a quantum jump because you are anyways guiding for another INR 4,000 crore, INR 5,000 crores of business development for FY '25. So I just wanted to understand how you see the launches going in the next 2 to 3 years?
Sure. So eventually, it has to get evened out. What we require is the launch and it has to fall into 1 sequence and the numbers we have to catch up with each other. It's only for the hard date we are talking about 31st being the cutoff between financial year 1 and financial year starting the next. So to that extent, there can be some little mismatch here and there. plus this long-term allocation project we're talking about, and that's very heavy in our product portfolio, there, most of the launches happen in phases.
So when we say INR 1,000 crores top line, maybe 2 or 3 quarters of to INR 100 crores, INR 200 crores each that way. And hence, they will get loans in sequences, et cetera. But ultimately, you're right. If you're doing INR 4,000 crores this year, INR 5,000 crores next year, et cetera, et cetera. And then if we keep growing by the same number, crore, INR 6,000 crores, INR 7,000 crores a year thereafter. If that is a trajectory, obviously, this trajectory hedge with a lag of a year or so into the new launches, and that's something that we'll be able to achieve.
So next year, you'll see some -- you should be able to see some drastic movement and enhancements in our launches as well, which will obviously be a result of higher that we're doing directly .
Right. And I also wanted to understand, are you seeing -- or what are the trends that you are seeing in the land prices, particularly in Gujarat since you have a lot of horizontal development there. Are you seeing any sort of investment demand kicking in?
Sorry, we are seeing what sorry, investment what?i.
Are you seeing any investment demand kicking in for your horizontal projects in Gujarat?
I mean, they are now comparatively stable. I mean, there is still some sort of appreciation happening in some pockets when it comes to draw lens. What is more important is that there is still a earth quality products hitting the market. So while in general, our raw land is still available and it is available at a price, which is now looking a little more stable. But there is still within our understanding an unmet demand for good products. And that's where the traction is coming. That's where the demand is coming.
And from an organized player point of view, this is a huge market, which was otherwise untapped to sell land, which is not developed in a very great way with no great amenities, et cetera, was always there, but people had less confidence in them. And obviously gave a great boost to this product segment. These 2 things coupled into 1 meant that organized players who could add value, who could bring in the vanities who are credible who can show and deliver what they promise on a piece of paper for that, demand is very, very high.
Now demand coming from investors vis-a-vis retail. I think retail is still very heavy. 80%, 90% of what we sell is sold to people who are little or upper middle class people this possibly could be their cost investment after their first home or maybe address their second investment. So these are not investor investors who would buy 10 units or 20 units to be sold very quickly at the earliest possible opportunity, et cetera. But these are more like consumption orientation to enjoy the property on a weekend and at the same taxes serving this property as an investment option.
So this is a little better than investment kind of profile. And hence, it is much more sustainable. Generally, the demand is widespread, and it's coming from, as I said, people who are investing into second or third properties, and that's the segment we are taping and hoping. And it is quite robust at this point in time.
Right. And a lot of these horizontal projects that you've launched in the last 1 or 2 years, the sales velocity has been quite high. So what are the profit margins that you are expecting on the sales in general? Because I mean, since your cash flows will be faster, I'm assuming it would also improve your profit margins from what you reported in the last 2, 3 years, right?
Horizontal project typically is giving us over the last few quarters and the projects which are considered already and which are there in our portfolio. have a margin of anything between 30% to 40% on top line. .
This is the EBITDA margin you're talking about?
Yes. On horizontal, on an average basis, that we are more like a 25%, 26% as a company, but that's a mix of everything. But a recent horizontal project plotting product should give us more like 30%, 35% as compared to 25% weighted average that we do otherwise.
All right. And I just have 1 last question. The project called rhythm of life that you've launched, I think end of this quarter. It showed that the collection is just INR 1 crore on a INR 70 crore sales base. So just wanted to understand.
Yes, the question is this observation even I had before the call. So what has happened is that this project was launched just 2 days before 31st March. So we just very quickly collected very small amounts as booking amounts book them. And subsequently, the money has been received, which is 10% the value that we generate in that sense before we issued the bookings. So it's just a function of we're not having enough time to collect the second thing which happens within 7 to 10 days of booking being received with a nominal check of INR 1 lakh or INR 2 lakh, INR 3 lakhs here and there. So it's just about 2 days that we had before the year end. .
[Operator Instructions]
We'll take the next question from the line of Rakesh Wadhwani from Monarch AIF.
Many congratulations on a great set of numbers. Sir, a couple of questions from my side. On the page -- the presentation, Slide #34, the operating cash flow that is the number is INR 2,563 crores. Just wanted to confirm this number is the cash flow that is going to incur to the Arvind SmartSpace after removing the shares of partners. Is that understanding correct?
Yes, this number is after removing every lit and associated liability and potential liability on account of development, et cetera, et cetera, including the landlord shares in all the JDs put together, yes. .
Okay. And on that point only that INR 2,563 crores also includes the venue that we have expected from projects like NH-47 in Ahemdabad as well as the Surat project?
Yes. I would think -- I mean, all the projects that have been declared in that sense that have been declared in the assets.
Yes. Okay. Okay. And sir, regarding the project launch project launch guidance in the FY '25, sir, what we have talked, so what we have seen. In this year, we have like a project acquisition worth INR 4,000 crores. I think most of the projects are supposed to be launched in this full financial year, except 2 projects which are very larger first is Surat, second MX-7, which will be launched in the phases, like 2, 3 phases, as you mentioned in the previous in the con call. So sir, I just wanted to know, I think we were looking around INR 2,500 crores to INR 3,000 crores launches in FY '25, is that -- am I missing something? Or is there a delay with respect to the launches?
So what we are targeting out of INR 4,000 crores that we already added there'll be more like a INR 3,000 crores worth of punches will happen in any case. But some of them will have phases coming in. So when we say INR 2,000 crores and INR 2,500 crores thereabouts, that includes only the phases which will come out this financial year. So to that extent, there might be an ambiguity of a fresh launch to the end of INR 500 crores here and there. But broadly, you're right. Out of INR 4,000-odd crores fresh things which we INR 3,000 crores worth of projects per se will be launched. How they phase out and how that number gets a can vary to a such extent to a small extent. But otherwise, 3/4 of what we've announced will be getting launched as a bare minimum within this financial year. So if we say that Surat is 1 project, and it should be launched. It will be launched or not. The answer is yes. And hence, we can add either 50% of that in today's calculations or we can add INR 1,000 crores because as the project cost INR 6,000 crores woth to that extent.
So that's the [indiscernible] otherwise, we obviously are on track to launch most of what we've announced SDFC in the last year.
Okay. One last question from my side. With respect to the BD, Sir, we -- so as we have guided on the INR 5,000 crores and around kind of business development in the coming quarter. And in the previous year also in the previous con call, we have talked -- our focus will be more towards vertical now Sir, just wanted to know how things are working with respect to business pipeline because if we say we are working more towards the vertical in order to launch a vertical project also, it takes 12 to 15 months you'll need to get the things clear from the local authorities and doing the base work. So I just wonder how the business is looking with respect to FY '26, FY '27, it should -- is my understanding correct? Because it is my understanding correct? If it may not happen, we may short of the projects in that FY '26?
So I mean dovetailing is important. This year, INR 5,000 crores, obviously will be heavy on verticals. So in our understanding, we could end up launching a vertical project depending upon its convergence status, et cetera, within a period of anything like 7 to 9 months, 10 months' time. And if we take a mean of 8 months, then whatever we acquire, finalize and sign off latest by the month of June, July has a decent chance of getting launch within this financial year. And we are on track. We -- I mean at least a couple of projects are such which should be able to meet these deadlines. And those are quite decent sized projects.
So to that extent, I think the target is that we launch at least 3 projects vertical during this financial year. And if that happens, the overall proportion of vertical will be quite decent as we look at this thing as on end of the year, '25. And thereafter, of course, the print line is becoming a little more balanced. And hence, you'll keep seeing intermittently both vertical and horizontal getting launched in a healthy proportion.
We'll take our next question from the line of Akshay Kotari from JHP Securities.
I just wanted to know regarding the Bangalore water prices, which happened off lately. A lot of our projects were on the out cut. So how do we perceive this as a risk? And how do we plan to -- any impact of this event?
So I mean, if you really ask me, Bangalore is going through a water crisis for the last 5, 6 years. And developers know this crisis possibly before anybody else in the city. Of course, resident gets impacted, but then we are working in [indiscernible], we're working in micro markets, et cetera, et cetera. And this problem greatly varies from 1 place to another. So when we say Bangalore, the situation is not very similar in all the areas in Bangalore. There are places where we are lucky. There are micro markets are luckier, and there are areas which are very, very badly impacted. .
Good news, as of now, as far as we are concerned, is that because we are a little more heavy on horizontal for the time being, we are not facing that kind of a crisis because it is not very construction-oriented basically land development projects and the amount of construction on a per GDV value, et cetera, et cetera, is very, very nominal and has no major challenges.
Having said, this is one challenge that the city is grappling with, solutions yet to be found. And as of now, for developers, it is a function of cost. So if water is not sufficiently available on site or in the nearby site, et cetera, et cetera, then water has to you've got healthy throughput coming from the bore wells, et cetera, et cetera, and to transport water from those kind of areas into the project. So ultimately, at this point, and in foreseeable future, in the medium term, it's a question of cost. Otherwise, there are -- I mean it's not a question of life and death. But yes, it's a serious issue. It's an issue which is getting aggregated by every passing year.
We are trying to become as water efficient as we can as developers. For example, 3, 4 years back, we were relying very heavily on normal conventional motor for blasting, which consumes a lot of water, not only in the process but also for post application usage like curing, et cetera, et cetera, and we are replacing those things with the premix motors, et cetera, which does not need any water once the whole thing is applied on the walls.
So to that extent, quite a few innovations are coming, quite a few initiatives are being taken and conservation efforts are on. We are horizontal comparatively. And hence, the problem is less aggravated. But then we'll continue to devise strategies to make sure that there are no instructions and we sail through this situation.
Secondly, you did mention that we are reporting the adjustment of apartments. So regarding that in mid geography would be looking at deal development I know we historically used to do. But again, in which geography, which will be going? And are you seeing some sort of peaking of horizontal demand currently the second holiday homes. And we would be looking for growth in verticals?
No, I mean, I have not understood the question fully, but let me still attempt what I've understood partially. So horizontal vertical projects will more be concentrated in cities like Bangalore, Pune and Mumbai where there is still a very, very healthy robust demand in and persistent demand coming in. So we have -- our clear focus is on the city of Bangalore, Pune and Mumbai when it comes to vertical projects. What is the question really at -- the other one?
So secondly, I was just asking. So are we seeing some sort of -- again, in Ahmedabad, we are not looking for a lot of vertical projects. So what is the main reason?
So Ahmedabad the way we see the market today in the proportion that we intend to invest, et cetera, et cetera, and the lens that we apply on profitability, et cetera, it is making much more sense to remain horizontal a little more heavy on horizontal. Having said that, it's not that we are not evaluating vertical in the market of Ahmedabad. We are obviously open to everything in every market. .
Today, it makes more sense to invest in horizontal trends comparatively. And Bangalore is making sense of -- on both the projects. That's why most of the vertical that you'll see coming in the coming quarters will be in Bangalore. But yes, even in foreseeable future, we see more of horizontals happening in the city of Ahmedabad comparatively and less of verticals. But we are keeping an eye on both in any case in the city of Ahmedabad as well.
We'll take our next question from the line of Kunal Okiman from Kitara Capital.
Sir, do you see a lot of sales -- resales happening in your project and being invested in new projects?
Normally, we'll have a lock-in period of from their like 2, 3 half years when we launch especially in a horizontal project. Thereafter, of course, you see start happening. And the market is sale liquid. I mean, we see people exiting, we see people entering in the projects that you would have completed time line by which we mostly exit or at least 90% exit in terms of the mass of execution, et cetera. And by the time we see it, I mean, transaction is happening in the project. Yes.
How much is the logging period usually?
Between 24 months to 30 months. 24 to 30 months. [indiscernible] going to discourage some very short-term investors. I mean, that's not sustainable and then it starts conflicting with our sales plan, et cetera. And hardly spoke investor is not very short term. They are not investor, investors as we just discussed a moment back. And hence, 4-month lock-in is something people are very happy with and it sells purpose from every point of view and every stakeholder's point of view. .
Sir, how much percentage is repeat sales? I mean, people from old projects buying into new?
So our referral sale is for the last year in totality is 22%. That is almost like INR 250 crores out of INR 1,100 crores came from our existing people and differences there. very healthy. And clearly, we are seeing repeat investments and investment [indiscernible] coming from our existing customers across the projects. in fact, is now contributing 25%. That also is a healthy proportion on the scale we are today. So all in all, definitely is pretty strong, and they are 1 of the most important contributors to the yield that we are achieving at this point. .
Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Kamal Singal for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Thank you, and thanks a lot, everybody, for participating in this earnings call of Arvind SmartSpace. And thanks again for your continued support on this. I hope we have been able to address most of your questions. However, if there is anything missed out on any of your questions, kindly reach out to Vikram, and he will be able to connect with you offline and clarify and give further information as may be required. Looking forward to inventing with all of you in the coming quarters. Once again, thanks a lot for participating. Thank you.
Thank you. On behalf of Arvind Infrastructure Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.