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Adani Ports and Special Economic Zone Ltd
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Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Adani Ports and SEZ Q4 and FY '23 Earnings Conference Call hosted by Nuvama Wealth Management. [Operator Instructions]
I now hand the conference over to Mr. Adil Khan from Nuvama Wealth Management. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thanks, Vikram. Good evening all, and welcome to the Q4 and financial year '23 ended earnings con call of Adani Ports and SEZ. We would thank the management for offering us the opportunity to host the con call. I would also take this opportunity to introduce the senior management team present on the call. So today, we have with us Mr. Karan Adani, CEO and Whole-Time Director; Mr. Subrat Tripathy, CEO of the Ports business; Mr. Vikram Jaisinghani, MD and CEO of Adani Logistics; Mr. D. Muthukumaran, CFO, Adani Ports; and Mr. Charanjit Singh, Head of Investor Relations and ESG.
We would have initial remarks by the management team, post which we will open it up for Q&A. With this, I hand over the call to Mr. Charanjit Singh. Over to you, sir.
Thank you very much. Dear all, Firstly, thank you very much for taking out that time to join our FY '23 earnings call. My sincere apologies -- sincere apologies for the inconvenience caused due to the change in call timing and further delays. Firstly, it was some delays to our Board meeting. And thereafter, we have faced technical issues on uploading the presentation and the results on the NSE website. Finally, it's uploaded on the BSE website, and therefore, we are now live.
Before I hand over the call to Mr. Karan Adani for his opening remarks, just a housekeeping point. For any queries relating to the group, you can reach out to me separately after the call, and I'll put you in touch with the right person. On the call, we will focus on Adani Ports and SEZ performance.
Over to you, Mr. Karan Adani.
Thank you. Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the FY '23 conference call to discuss the operational and financial performance of Adani Ports and SEZ Limited. I'm pleased to announce the strongest ever full year performance in the history of APSEZ with various new milestones recorded during the year.
Starting with the financials. APSEZ has outperformed against the revenue and EBITDA guidance provided at the beginning of the year. With operating revenue of INR 20,852 crores and EBITDA of INR 12,833 crores, which is a year-on-year growth of around 22%. Due to sweating of assets, the EBITDA margin of logistics business increased by around 150 basis points to 28%, which is higher than most of the listed peers in India. The profit after tax for the year increased by 9% year-on-year to INR 5,393 crores. This is even after factoring a write-off of around INR 1,273 crores on account of sale of Myanmar assets.
Moving to operational highlights, starting with Port business. We achieved a cargo throughput of 339 million metric tonnes, which is a good 9% year-on-year growth. The previous benchmark of achieving 300 million metric tonnes of cargo in 354 days were surpassed during the year as the [ fleet ] was achieved in just 329 days. APSEZ also achieved its highest ever container volume of 8.8 million TEUs with Mundra alone recording 6.6 million TEUs, which is a 10% higher than its closest competition.
We now have 2 ports, Mundra and Krishnapatnam amongst the top 10 ports of India based on cargo volume handled. Several initiatives taken during the year that have helped boost cargo volumes include commissioning of a container terminal at Gangavaram, commissioning of liquid storage tanks at Kattupalli, mechanization of Berth #6 at Krishnapatnam and acquisition of Haifa Port. Besides, we have added new cargo types at some of our ports. For example, Krishnapatnam Port successfully added soya bean, sulfur and sugar while Dhamra Port managed its first rice export to Bangladesh and added wheat and CR coils to its cargo portfolio.
Moving to operational performance of Logistics business. Our overall volume managed -- overall volumes managed, saw a robust growth. The container rates handled during the year achieved a new milestone of crossing 0.5 million TEUs which is a good 24% year-on-year jump. The bulk cargo transported was 14.35 million metric tonnes, implying a 63% year-on-year jump while the terminal volumes increased by 19% year-on-year to around 359,000 TEUs, with addition of 18 rigs in FY '23, total train count increased to 93 at the year-end, which includes 43 container trains and 40 bulk trains. We have given orders for another 14 bulk trains and 24 container trains that are likely to arrive in the current financial year.
During the year, 3 MMLPs were commissioned, including the acquisition of ICD 2, taking the total count of MMLPs to 9. In the current financial year, we are targeting to commission 3 more multi-model logistics part.
Our total agri silo capacity during the year increased to 1.1 million metric tons with commissioning of new facilities at 4 locations. We will surpass our guided ambition of 2.5 million metric ton silo capacity by FY '26 with the recent contracts won at 70 locations.
Now let me share a brief on the investment made during the year. During FY '23, APSEZ made total investment of around INR 27,000 crores, which includes around INR 18,000 crores spent on 6 acquisitions and around INR 9,000 crores for organic CapEx. These investments were predominantly financed through internal accruals and the cash and cash equivalents held with the company. The 6 acquisitions made are one Haifa Port Company, which is the operator of Israel's largest port, Indian Oiltanking, one of India's largest third-party liquid tank storage players, Ocean Sparkler, India's leading third-party marine service provider, ICD Tugh, one of India's largest ICD with a capacity of 0.5 million TEU. Gangavaram Port, the third largest non-major port in India, and the recently acquired, Karaikal Port, a deep sea all weather port in the state of Pondicherry.
Despite a record investment of around INR 27,000 crores during the year, the gross debt to fixed asset ratio of APSEZ improved considerably, with ratio declining from 80% in FY '19 to around 60% at the end of FY '23. Our net debt-to-EBITDA ratio is almost flat at 3.1x and well within our guided range of 3x to 3.5x. During the year, we have won 5 bids. The 2 wins for the port businesses are both to mechanization at Haldia port and Greenfield port development at Tajpur Investment [indiscernible]. The 3 wins for the logistics business are the 70 silos -- agri silo spread across 8 states with a cumulative capacity of 2.8 million metric tonnes, the Loni ICD in NCR and Valvada ICD near Gujarat-Maharashtra border. The investment made along with the 5 bids win during the year will enable APSEZ to achieve its targeted volume -- cargo volume of 500 million metric tonnes in 2025 and speed up the transition of company's business model to a transport utility.
An update on Myanmar asset, pursuant to our 4 May announcement on Myanmar asset sales, APSEZ has received the sale consideration of USD 30 million from the buyer. In April '23, APSEZ announced the launch of the bond buyback program, the first tranche of the buyback of USD 130 million note during -- due in June '24 is already completed. More such buybacks are likely -- likely to come in coming quarters. For FY '23, the APSEZ Board has recommended a dividend of INR 5 per share, in line with our capital allocation policy. This implies a payout of around INR 1,080 crores.
On the ESG front, in 2022, APSEZ was ranked first in the transport and logistics sector across all emerging markets by Moody's. The S&P ranked APSEZ amongst the top 10 -- top 10 out of 300-plus companies in the transport and transport infrastructure globally and Sustainalytics classified us as a low ESG risk company.
Finally, coming to the guidance for FY '24. We expect cargo volume in the range of 370 million to 390 million metric tonnes. Revenue within the range of INR 24,000 crores to INR 25,000 crores and EBITDA in the range of INR 14,500 crores to INR 15,000 crores. Net debt-to-EBITDA ratio is expected to decline to around 2.5x by March'24. This is factoring a CapEx of INR 4,000 to INR 4,500 crores and scheduled loan repayments and bond prepayments.
We can now open the forum for Q&A.
[Operator Instructions] Take our first question from the line of Mohit Kumar from ICICI Securities.
Congratulations on a very good year, especially on the acquisitions. My first question is on the cargo volume growth guidance. Are you baking in Karaikal volumes in this? And the related question is that have you taken any tariff hike in Mundra and across other ports in the fiscal?
Yes. So yes, this volume guidance does bake in Karaikal Port. And the Karaikal Port volume expected is between 8 million and 12 million -- between 8 million and 12 million tonnes. And tariff hike, yes, we have taken into account. We have taken into account on a per tonne basis, a hike of around 3% to 4%.
Have you [indiscernible] the tariff hike?
Yes, we have -- as -- as you know that generally, we do all our negotiations in the quarter 1. So a lot of those hikes have been -- some of them have already been implemented and some are under negotiation. But we are very confident that by June, we would have most of those tariff hikes in place.
Understood, sir. My second question is on this -- on the color of the CapEx, which you have penciled around $40 billion to $45 billion. Can you just detail out this CapEx, where do you want CapEx -- where this CapEx will go into?
So roughly INR 3,000 crores will go towards ports and between INR 1,000 crores to INR 1,500 crores will go towards the logistics business. And within the ports, most of it is going in commissioning the capacity expansions that we had undertaken last year.
We take the next question from the line of [ Abhiram Iyer ] from Deutsche Bank.
So this is regarding the qualified opinion that's mentioned in the auditor's note, as mentioned that basically, there's an EPC contract being done with a fellow subsidiary of -- of such a group company, which the group has represented that the contractor is not only to party. Maybe know who the contractor is? And is this a sort of going against the principle which was expressed last time around that any party even with multiple levels going back up to the promoter group would essentially be considered as a related party and disclose as such?
Yes. As far as the details are concerned, we have given a response in the next year, one to the qualified opinion as required by the stock exchange in LODR, and there, we have given full details with respect to the fact that we've been dealing with this contractor for now about a decade. And they have been actually commissioning all our projects sort of in time on cost and we have a relationship, which is ongoing, and they've been delivering [ forth ].
So this is just an ongoing thing. And pending investigation of [indiscernible] in Supreme Court auditors have decided to qualify this, and we will have final outcome once the investigation is over. And this is not a related party, which we have also confirmed. And this is just an auditor's opinion in the context of ongoing investigation.
Sir, could you give us details on the name of the counterparty given that they are -- as you mentioned, you have a significant relationship with them. So they have an impact on the group, right?
Yes, yes. The name of the contractor is Howe.
Sorry, Kuwe?
Howe
Howe. Okay. Got it. And the second question that I had was on the current buyback at a stand, given the fact that -- so is your net debt-to-EBITDA target of 2.5x by the end of March [ 2023 ] still on track given that you're doing multiple foreign investments and recently in Suradani also mentioned that there were certain investments will be made in Vietnam as the new sources. Is that more further down in the future or more immediate, which potentially might elevate back well of which from the 2.5x target to move back to 3.5x, which is a long-run target for the group?
We actually continue to have 2.5x as the target. There is no change in that. And when we gave the target for 2.5x, remember, we have said that we will have both scheduled and unscheduled repayments to be done on the debt. And what we have announced recently in terms of the buyback is broadly within the same bucket of what we already captured in the calculation of 2.5x. And as far as Vietnam is concerned, yes. It's actually -- it's a work in progress. And as things stand now, we don't anticipate anything coming in this financial year.
We take the next question from the line of Abhishek Nigam from B&K Securities.
So a couple of bookkeeping questions. One, if you could address why are other expenses and employee expenses higher on a Q-o-Q basis? So that's my first question.
Yes. So we have acquired this asset Haifa in [indiscernible]
on the line.
So basically, the expenditure increase on employee front is fundamentally attributable to the Haifa where the business model we have shared at the time of acquisition. We are, by and large, in line with sort of what we have announced already. And this is consequent to us consummating the deal in the first quarter, Q4, sorry.
Okay. Okay. And other expenses will be similar, mainly high impact?
Yes, that's correct.
Fair enough. So this is kind of the run rate which we should assume will be the normalized run rate going forward?
So -- in the near term, yes.
Fair enough. Second, if you can just talk about demand trends on port volumes, especially on the container side. How do you see FY '24 evolving in terms of volumes on a Y-o-Y basis? The overwhelming sentiment right now is that volumes are sort of picking up, but nobody sees a very strong recovery. So do you agree with that?
So we do expect the country GDP to grow at around 6.5%, and we do expect pan-India trade volume to be growing at around 7% -- 7% to 7.5%. And that's -- and generally, we -- and that's why we are looking at between 10% to 12% growth in our in our volumes.
Fair enough. That's helpful. Last question from me. If you can just talk about the Dhamra terminal, what is happening there? And in case it is possible to give us some guidance in terms of EBITDA contribution or at least in terms of utilization, where do you see it ramping up, say, over the next 3 quarters?
Are you talking about Dhamra LNG?
Yes, Dhamra LNG terminal, yes.
The Dhamra LNG terminal, it's -- as you know, we've commissioned the terminal in month of April. As you know, it is a 5 million tonne terminal, and we have a take-or-pay contract of 4.5 million tonnes, 3 million with Indian Oil Corporation and 1.5 million tonnes with with GAIL. The line has been commissioned by GAIL, and we don't see any bottleneck over there. It's a 50-50 joint venture with Total Group, as you know, this terminal.
So we do expect volume to be this year around 2.5 million metric tonne based on the take-or-pay contract that we have and based on the bookings that have been done. And we expect the 2.5 million to be ramped up next year to full 4.5 million tonnes.
We take the next question from the line of [ Shabad Thadani ] from [ Alken Capital ].
No questions for the answers, thank you.
We take the next question from the line of Asmeeta Sidhu from MetLife Investment Management.
I just have a very quick one. You have mentioned in the last results call that Adani Port is looking to reduce the remaining share pledges that are taken on by the company to zero into June'24. So can you just share if there's a rough time line on how that reduction has been going? And when do we expect to see the full reduction at March or will it be earlier?
Yes. So if you look to the disclosures, what we have made as of 31st March, the share pledge is down from 17% to 4%. So in line with the guidance provided and the commitment to reduce the pledge, it's already done, largely taken care of and we will be moving towards zero in a year or so time.
We take the next question from the line of Achal Lohade from JM Financial.
I wanted to check about the volume guidance in terms of a, key ports, which are going to drive this growth? And b, in terms of the commodities, we have seen the coal has been a significant growth actually in FY '23. So how do you see specifically for coal, given the way things are playing out?
Yes. So in terms of -- I'll answer your second question first. So we do expect coal growth to continue. However, we do see more growth coming from -- from domestic coal movement through postal route -- more happening from that. And -- so we expect around 14% to 15% growth in the domestic coal volume. Imported coal volume, we do expect growth of around 7% to 8%. And on the nonthermal coal, so cooking coal, we expect a growth of, again, between 15% to 18% compared to last year. I'm talking about as a pan-India. And over there, we will obviously look at capturing as much share as possible.
From our portfolio, we expect major growth coming from Krishnapatnam from Dhamra and -- Krishnapatnam , Dhamra and Gangavaram and as well as Mundra.
Right. The second question I had with respect to the Greenfield port you talked about in West Bengal. Is there anything planned? I mean it seems you've not baked in any number with respect to that port in FY '24. But how do we see this evolving? I mean in terms of a, the presence on the East and the West Coast. Are we already there? Or are there any more organic or greenfield as well as acquisition targets possible?
Sure. So on Tajpur Port, we have just signed an LOI. We are waiting. We are in discussions with the West Bengal government to sign a concession agreement. Post the signing of concession agreement, the environment clearance and that process will start. So a realistic time line for Tajpur Port to have any real construction to begin is 24 months before any CapEx on ground is pushed.
In terms of other locations, we keep evaluating opportunity. There are a lot of opportunities which will come up in '27, '28 when a lot of the terminals will be coming for an expiry. So we will look at -- we keep evaluating the opportunity, both on the East Coast as well as West Coast of the country.
We take the next question from the line of Vikram Suryavanshi from Phillip Capital.
Just wanted to update on the logistics side of the business where we now own [indiscernible] trading and [indiscernible]
Sir, please use the handset, sir. We're not able to hear you very well. Your audio is not very clear. Please use the handset and repeat your question again.
So is it audible now?
Yes, please go ahead.
Okay. Just on the logistics side of the business where we have 43 continued training and planning to add 24, which is almost like a 50% growth. While we are seeing slowdown in economy and export. So with such kind of addiction, how is the outlook? And where are we really looking at the market share gain? Or will it be used for domestic operation also? So if you can give some clarity on that opportunity, it would be helpful.
So Vikam, the growth that we are looking at is predominantly, as you see, we have opened up new MMLPs. So to serve those markets. So we have Nagpur, we have Mumbai, we have [indiscernible] as well as Tungh where we'll be expanding. So all of these places, we would be looking to -- to move cargo from road to rail. That's the predominant focus. And it's not just about taking market share from the competing ICD.
Predominantly, if you see the 43 trains that we have deployed, our capacity utilization is at 95%, 96%. And -- and we -- and in order to continue the growth, we do expect the addition of capacity of the trains will help us in continuing with the growth for the container.
So -- we believe that 25 trains over the course of next 12 months will help us to take -- to continue with the growth journey of at least 20%, 22% growth on the container side.
Vikram, you want to add any?
Yes. I think it's also important to note that the delivery of these trends are going to come in a phased manner. It's not that 24 trains are coming immediately in this month or the next month. Every passing month, we'll have delivery of 1 train each and this 24 will come in by the end of the year. And then at the end of the year, we have to position ourselves for the next year's growth as well where we'll add more terminals. And these current new terminals will even gain further volumes. So it's a 2-year horizon that we have taken into account and we are well prepared to meet the growth not only this year, but the coming year also.
Got it. To support this in domestic growth, how is the container availability, are we importing from China? Because the kind of containers that will be required for this domestic operation will also be quite huge.
So at this point of time, our container availability is sufficient. We had already built container inventory by a mix of some China imports, but we also developed a local supplier. But going forward, now that the suppliers are developed and Indian suppliers are capable of manufacturing containers, all the future growth or future procurement of containers will come from Indian suppliers.
Got it. And one last question on Haifa Port. Basically, apart from the port volume, we were also looking at real estate revenue growth on that basically business. So how is the development happening on that side?
See, the real estate is actually going to be the long -- medium-term to long-term plan. It was not going to come this year or the next year. So we have embarked on the journey of unlocking the value from real estate. We have started sort of getting people on board, having initial plans. So it's going on track. But nothing was ever expected in the medium term.
If you look into the presentation, the disclosures we have made at the time of acquisition of Haifa Port, there it has clearly highlighted that for any sort of real estate revenue to come through, it will easily take 2, 3 years. So the development will first need to happen and then only we can start realizing the value of the development.
The current set of development, which is there is very small and there's a huge potential. So if you go through the details, you will really understand that it is primarily from the fourth year or fifth year from the revenue then the realizations start to creep in at the material side.
We take next question from the line of Himanshu Porwal from Seaport Global.
A couple of questions. If you can just quickly share your current liquidity including any bank facilities? And secondly, any fundraising plans in the year ahead, predominantly on the debt side [indiscernible]? There have been several reports about the Adani group of companies looking for some private placement. So if you can just throw some light on that?
Sure. See, as far as the liquidity is concerned, the total cash on the balance sheet as of 31st March is INR 9,800 crores. And as far as fundraising plan is concerned, no, we have no sort of requirement. And we have told you in the beginning of the year that we are in the journey of deleveraging for this year. So that's what our current focus is. So there is no fresh fund raise anticipated in this year.
Okay. And hitting on the bank facility side. So I assume 9,800 is the cash on balance sheet, but something on the credit facility?
No. At this point in time, we don't need any fresh loan for the purpose of meeting our plan that we have laid out.
All right. So with these liquidity balances, you're comfortable along with your existing cash flow from operations to meet all your CapEx as well as future debt requirements, right?
That's right.
We'll take our next question from the line of Abhishek Nigam from B&K Securities.
SEZ income regular guidance has been about INR 800 crores to INR 900 crores in revenue every year. I understand maybe this year, it's kind of chunky, and it was closer to about INR 400-odd crores. So for next year, will you still guide INR 800 crores to INR 900 crores in revenue? Or is there a revision in guidance?
No, sir, our guidance -- what guidance that we have given on revenue that takes into account only INR 500 crores from SEZ. We don't expect more income coming right this year.
Okay. Fair enough. And the second question is just on CONCOR. So I think the previous call that we did, there was some level of concern that maybe because of the volume situation, maybe you would want to wait and maybe CONCOR is not really a priority. Now in case that divestment goes through now, are you still interested like you were before the entire event which unfolded in the last 3 months?
So we will evaluate. But as Muthu said, our focus is deleveraging. So we would look at priorities to bring the net debt to EBITDA at 2.5x and if we can even achieving the 2.5x guidance if we can still manage to somehow do CONCOR, we will do it. We will evaluate.
We'll take our next question from the line of Abhiram Iyer from Deutsche Bank.
Just a quick more technical -- sort of technical question here. But could you provide a breakup of the cash balance is above INR 100 billion which is mentioned in the presentation? Because if I look through the balance sheet and tally up the cash and bank balances on the current asset side and on the noncurrent asset side, these come up to around INR 60 billion -- INR 62 billion, INR 63 billion. I understand that there are a few investments, but most of these seem to be investments held. So are the also classified as liquid investments held by the equity [indiscernible] also looked at as an equity as a liquid equivalent? And if so, could you please highlight what this is about, given the high number?
Yes, yes. I'll explain actually. Seeing the balance sheet, actually, the cash balance and bank balances sitting in different places. The first one is the bank deposits maturing over 12 months, INR 1,553 And the next one we have is investments, which is INR 4,029 and the next -- the next one we have is INR 932, which is cash and cash equivalents. And the last one we have is bank balances other than the above, which is INR 3,310. And all these, when there is a need, are liquidatable overnight when we need.
Got it. Got it. And the second question is pertaining to -- sorry, the second question is pertaining to assets for sale. This is still sort of maintained at around INR 194 crores -- sorry, INR 19 billion. Given the fact that Myanmar was already considered sold and that's why you took the loss on valuation. What assets are these? Or is this still Myanmar because it wasn't transferred over until Q1?
That is correct. That's the answer. It's only Myanmar.
Okay. So you took the write-down, but you didn't do the transfer. That's why that is the difference.
That agreement occurring after the balance sheet date. So we have to provide for full impact on 31st March. However, the actual entry will happen in the first quarter.
We take the next question from the line of Asmeeta Sidhu from MetLife Investment Management ].
I just have a follow-up for [indiscernible] the Adanin International terminal. Could you just give us a brief update on how the utilization at the container has been and if possible, what the export-import and the time shipment split has been sort in container terminal over the last 12 months?
Yes. So the capacity of Adani International Container Terminal is roughly 3 million TEUs volume -- and -- we are running at 80% capacity utilization over there. And roughly, transshipment volume over there is 20% of the volume and balance is EXIM. And in EXIM, it is quite balanced in terms of import and export.
We'll take the next question from the line of Nikhil from Alliance Bernstein.
Just wanted to check if there is any update on Vizhinjam and the Sri Lanka terminal?
Sure. On Vizhinjam, we expect the first vessel to Berth in October of this year. That's when we expect the first equipments to come. We expect the first Phase I that is 400 meters to be commissioned by March of 2024 and the balance by May of 2024. So we expect the full commissioning of -- within May 2024.
In terms of Colombo, we have completed the reclamation of the terminal and the construction, the JT construction has just commenced. We expect Colombo terminal to be commissioned by December of 2024, which is again, Phase 1 of almost 1 kilometer.
Good to hear the progress. The second question I had was on Mundra container handling capacity, as you mentioned, it's 80% of inflation. Expansion plans on that front, if you could share some color on that? [indiscernible]
Yes. I just want to clarify. The earlier question was related to one of the terminals. It was not as overall Mundra Port. So Mundra port capacity utilization on container is 70%. And we are in the amidst of expanding one of our terminals, which is a terminal 2 and where right now, it is 0.5 million TEU capacity, where we are taking up to 1.2 million. And that's basically just addition of the -- addition of equipments that we are doing over there. And we expect this should be able to take us at least in terms of growth for the next 2 years.
One last question, if I may. So on the Mundra concession, beyond 2031, has there been any update from the Gujarat government or did it take a [indiscernible] question?
No, the status quo is same as last time.
[Operator Instructions] We take the next question from the line of Bharanidhar Vijayakumar from [ Avendus ] Spark.
Can you highlight the potential in terms of volumes and profitability and revenue from Karaikal Port in FY'24?
Yes. So as I said, Karaikal, we expect between 8 million and 12 million is what we are looking at in terms of volume. It's predominantly a bulk port right now where it's predominantly coastal coal as well as cooking coal and fertilizer, which is coming in. Roughly, the EBITDA over there is close to INR 300 crores is what the port makes as an EBITDA. INR 300 -- between INR 300 crores to INR 350 crores.
And so this asset will be consolidated from the beginning of FY '24?
Yes, that's right.
Ladies and gentlemen, we have reached the end of the question-and-answer session. And I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. Over to you, gentlemen.
So thank you very much for taking out the time. And apologies once again for the delay in the inconvenience caused. I know that there wasn't sufficient time for many of the people to look at the presentation and the results. So feel free to reach out to me for any queries that you may have, we are available all times. So as late in the night, whenever you want to call, feel free and we'll answer all your questions. So thank you, once again.
Thank you very much, sir. Thank you, members of the management. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Nuvama Wealth Management, and that concludes this conference call. Thank you for joining with us. You may now disconnect your lines.