Adani Ports and Special Economic Zone Ltd

NSE:ADANIPORTS

Earnings Call Transcript 2020-Q1

[Devesh Agarwal, Assistant Vice President]

And good evening to everyone. On behalf of IIFL Securities, I welcome you all on the 1Q FY '20 Earnings Call of Adani Ports and SEZ.Today, from the management, we have Karan Adani, the CEO and the Whole Time Director; and Deepak Maheshwari, the CFO and the Head of Strategy.Now I hand over call to Mr. Karan Adani for his opening remarks, post which, we'll open the floor for Q&A. Over to you, sir.

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

Thank you. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the conference call to discuss quarter 1 FY '20 operational and financial performance of Adani Ports and SEZ Limited.In quarter 1 FY '20, we achieved throughput of 57 million metric tonne of cargo at our ports, translating into a year-on-year cargo volume growth of 18%. This is against 8% cargo volume growth registered by all-India ports. Yet again, we have been able to register double-digit growth and outperform all-India cargo volume growth.Our market share in all-India cargo volume has increased by 100 basis points to 22%. Our market share in all-India container volume continues to be at 35%. Our consistent gaining of market share reflects our resilience and ability to gain market share across our operating ports. This strong performance has resulted in our consolidated revenue to grow by 16%, and port revenues to grow by 23%.Logistics after last year's consolidation registered a growth of 12% in terms of revenue. Consolidated EBITDA grew by 16% to INR 1,843 crores, port EBITDA grew by 24% to INR 1,709 crores and Logistics' EBITDA grew by 160% to INR 54 crores. We have been able to maintain our consolidated EBITDA margins at 66% and port EBITDA margins at 70%. Our profit before tax jumped by 48% to INR 1,362 crores, and profit after tax grew by 46% to INR 1,011 crores. Deepak will later on take you through the details of other key financial numbers.Our focus on ESG continues. We have been continuously focusing on using cleaner energy and reducing energy consumption at our ports. Similarly, we have set definitive targets of reducing emission at our ports and also monitor water consumption and ensure optimum utilization of the same. Safety continues to be of paramount importance. Details of progress made in Q1 FY '20 are shared in the presentation sent to you all.Let me run through some of the cargo volumes. Cargo volumes' growth of 18% in quarter 1 FY '20 was across all commodities we handled. While coal volumes grew by 38%; container volume grew by 8%; and other bulk cargo, excluding coal, grew by 33%. Cargo composition continues to be balanced. While coal volume was 35% of our total cargo; container was 39%; and crude plus other bulk cargo, excluding coal, constituted 26% of our total cargo volume.During quarter 1 of FY '20, we handled 20 million tonnes of coal, a growth of 38% over last year. This included 3 million metric tonne of coking coal and 17 million tonne of thermal coal. We handled 5 million tonnes of coal for Adani Power at Mundra. Mundra port alone handled 10 million tonnes of coal.We continue to gain market share in our container operations. In quarter 1 of FY '20, compared to all India ports, port growth of 7%, we have registered a growth of 8% during quarter 1 of FY '20. Container growth at Mundra was subdued on account of realignment of few services. However, these are routine in nature, and we expect container volumes at Mundra to outperform all-India cargo volume growth in FY '20.Container volume at Kattupalli continues to be strong. The port achieved 16% container volume growth, thus continuously gaining market share. Ennore port continues to handle higher container volumes. In quarter 1 of FY '20, it handled 60,000 TEUs.Crude volumes saw a marginal decline of 8% at Mundra due to lower imports by Indian Oil Corporation. Other cargoes during the quarter grew by a healthy 33%. This is on account of our continued focus to diversify and handle various types of cargo at all our ports. In quarter 1, we have signed 3-year contract with HMEL to handle NAFTA at Mundra port. With this, Mundra port has become one of the handful ports in the -- in India, which have liquid cargo carrying rakes handling facility.In quarter 1 of FY '20, our long-term or sticky cargo has registered a growth of 23%. We handled 34 million tonne of cargo, which is a combination of long-term or sticky cargo. This insulates our business to a great extent.All operating ports except Dahej registered a double-digit growth, while Mundra, our flagship port, grew by 16%, volume at Hazira grew by 20%, and 16% at Kattupalli. Our terminals at major ports, namely Tuna, Goa, Vizag and Ennore put together handled more than 4 million tonnes of cargo, thus registering a year-on-year growth of 35%.As guided during our last conference call, Dhamra is back on growth track. In quarter 1 of FY '20, Dhamra port handled its highest ever quarterly cargo volumes of 6.5 million metric tonne. The port grew by 43%. The growth was led by all types of cargo. While coal grew by 16%, mineral grew by 95% and other bulk cargo grew by 98%. The port continues to handle various types of high-value cargo, namely Gypsum, Clinker, steel exports and ship-to-ship operations.During last quarter, for the first time, it handled Urea for our customers. Better availability of rakes running of rakes under the GPWIS scheme has helped in abating evacuation issues. Rake availability in quarter 1 FY '20 increased significantly from an average of 12.47 rakes per day in quarter 1 of FY '19 to 18.35 rakes per day in quarter 1 FY '20.Coming to update on owning wagons under GPWIS. So far, we have progressed to obtain approval to operate 31 rakes. Currently, we are operating 4 rakes under the scheme, one for Rashmi and 3 rakes for TATA Steel from April 2019. One additional rake for Rashmi and 2 rakes for TATA Steel is expected to be commissioned into the circuit by September 2019 end. Hence, by Q2 FY '20, we will have 7 rakes under GPWIS catering to cargo movement from Dhamra port. We are also in discussion with external customers like SAIL, JSPL, Shyam Steel, as well as internal customers like Adani Power to deploy additional rake under the GPWIS scheme.Coming to logistics operations, rail volumes handled by ALL registered a year-on-year growth of 27%. There has been significant improvement in container rake availability for Adani Logistics Limited. ALL was operating 22 rakes -- container rakes. With acquisition of B2B Logistics completed this week, ALL is currently operating 36 rakes. In addition, another 12 container rakes are on order and expected to be received in phased manner by February 2020. With improved container rake availability, rail volumes of ALL are set to increase significantly in FY '20.ALL is also operating 4 rakes under the GPWIS at Dhamra port. During the quarter, ALL transported 275,000 tonnes of cargo through these rakes. Five rakes under GPWIS are on order, of which 3 will be delivered in quarter 2 of FY '20, and the balance 2 are expected in quarter 4 of FY '20.Thus Adani Logistics Limited is on track with the target of operating 60-plus rakes by end of FY '20. Adani Agri Logistics Limited, which we acquired in March 2019, handled 4.3 lakh metric tonne of cargo in Q1 and is on track towards to -- and is on track towards a target of 13 lakh metric tonne in FY '20. Currently, AALL has 8 silos -- 8 silo units under implementation. AALL has also participated in tenders floated by FCI in 7 locations in West Bengal.Adani Agri Logistics Limited will also actively participate in upcoming tenders to grow its market share. As you are aware, Adani Logistics Limited had signed a definitive agreement to acquire 100% stake in Innovative B2B Logistics Solution Private Limited. The process of acquisition was completed during this week. With Logistics parks in Bangalore, Nagpur, and warehouses in Kattupalli, Taloja, Mundra under development, Adani Logistics is on track towards the strategy of expanding logistics footprint across India, building multi-model logistics park, warehousing, rail network and distribution in order to be the leading integrated logistics service provider/operator in India. The company will also continue to explore opportunities for acquisition of similar nature in India.Now let me run through and give you some updates on LPG and LNG business. Mundra LPG business -- Mundra LPG terminal, the terminal is ready for operation. We expect to handle 0.5 million tonne of cargo for this terminal in FY '20. We also expect to earn INR 20 crores to INR 25 crores of royalty, plus marine income from this terminal in the current financial year. The Mundra LNG terminal is ready and expected to commence operation in FY '20 and handle 0.5 million tonne of cargo volume in the current financial year.As you are aware, the asset is held by GSPC JV with Adani Enterprises, and as such, we will earn 2 types of income from this asset. The first one is the port-led development income, and the second is income on account of royalty and providing marine services. Till now, we have not booked any port-led development income from Mundra LNG. We expect to get an income of INR 700 crores in FY '20 from this terminal for the port development income. Royalty and marine income in FY '20 from this terminal is expected to be INR 50 crores.Compared to Q1 of FY '20, cargo volumes in the current quarter is little soft. Looking at the current economic scenario, we expect cargo volumes to grow around 10% in FY '20, which would still be at least 1.5x of all-India cargo volume growth, thus our outperformance and gaining of market share will continue. We expect INR 800 crores to INR 1,000 crores of SEZ port-led development income in FY '20. This includes income of INR 125 crores to INR 150 crores from lease rentals and upfront fees, and through sales lease of assets at Mundra and Dhamra.Our consolidated EBITDA is expected to grow in the range of INR 1,000 crores to INR 1,200 crores, which will further improve our cash flows. Notwithstanding current mood in the country, which we feel should improve in couple of quarters, if not earlier, India is clearly going to enter an exciting phase. Our economy is on the path to become a INR 5 trillion economy. We foresee enormous room for growth and development across key sectors. Our focus remains on tapping this growth.At the same time, we have embarked on our journey to further strengthen our last mile connectivity to ports by adopting a dual strategy of improving efficiency and looking at inorganic growth. This strategy will help us to continue gain market share and take us closer to our vision of being a truly integrated service provider in the logistics space.Now I request Deepak to take you through the financial numbers.

[Deepak Maheshwari, Chief Financial Officer]

Thanks, Karan. Aided by the strong cargo volume growth, higher rail volumes, we have reported yet another quarter of strong performance. Consolidated revenue and consolidated EBITDA during the period grew by 16% to INR 2,794 crores and INR 1,843 crores, respectively. We were able to maintain the consolidated EBITDA margin of 66%. Similarly, port revenue grew by 23% to INR 2,425 crores, and port EBITDA grew by 24% to INR 1,709 crores.Port EBITDA margins continue to be at 70%. This performance has resulted in the profit before tax increasing to INR 1,362 crores and PAT to INR 1,011 crores. During this quarter, we have recorded an FX gain of INR 3 crores compared to the loss of INR 383 crores in Q1 of FY '19 on account of mark-to-market of foreign debt.During the previous financial year, Goa terminal had received a demand from Mormugao Port Trust for the payment of revenue share on deemed storage charges of INR 72.62 crores. The management had considered it prudent to make the provision to the extent of the demand raised. The company has further received claim for deemed storage of INR 58.60 crores, which we have provided for in this quarter. The company has initiated the process of getting the investment classified as a stressed project in accordance with the guidelines issued by the Ministry of Shipping, and arbitration has been initiated to resolve this matter.A quick update on the recent acquisition. If you recollect, we had informed of our first international foray for setting up container terminals at Myanmar. We had shared a detailed presentation on 23 May, 2019, happy to confirm and inform the market that the project is on track, and we have received all approvals for the commencement of construction.Integration of AALL into ALL has been completed smoothly. The process of acquisition of B2B Logistics, as communicated to the market in March 2019, was completed during the early part of this week. This acquisition will give Adani Logistics Limited access to operate container rakes to the eastern and southern ports of India and will increase the overall reach of the logistics business in APSEZ.And you're probably aware, recently we did 2 U.S. dollar-denominated bond issuances. Both the issuances were received with overwhelming response from the international institutional investors, resulting in heavy oversubscription. The first issue of USD 750 million for a 10-year bond with a coupon rate of 4.375% will be used largely for capital expenditure as well as other uses as allowed by the Reserve Bank of India under the TCB guidelines. The second issue of USD 650 million with a coupon rate of 3.375% was carried out as a liability management exercise to refinance existing debt due in July 2020. The successful issuance is a testimony of the continued trust of investors in APSEZ's strong financials.As touched upon by Karan earlier, we'll continue to look at the right kind of acquisition opportunities in the ports and logistics space in India. We can use the strength of our balance sheet to acquire value-accretive assets. Our efforts will continue to be to improve the return on capital employed of our businesses where we have already invested.With this, we open the lines for question and answers.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Venugopal Garre from Bernstein.

[Venugopal Garre, Senior Analyst]

I just want to quickly check, in terms of the mix of the business, this quarter has been interesting because you've seen a lot of bulk growth versus container, which is in single -- high-single digits. Now going forward, is that sort of a trend that you see this year, where bulk would probably outperform container? And more so, I wanted to also touch upon the Mundra side. You mentioned about some normal realignments and readjustments. If you could elaborate on that?

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

Sure. So I think the way right now Q2 is also looking, I think we are seeing a similar trend that growth is driven more by bulk rather than container. I think container, we will see a similar growth rate as what we saw in Q1. In terms of Mundra, what we had -- few realignments between -- I mean, let me put it this way, there was a consolidation of services. So we saw basically vessel upsizing and because of that, some of the services had to stop. And we saw a little bit of shortfall in cargo over there. And the second, where we saw a little bit of shortfall was on the transshipment volume at Mundra, which we are confident that it will pick up again in Q2 and Q3.

[Venugopal Garre, Senior Analyst]

Okay. Just a quick question on the same thing. EBITDA growth for Mundra, even after adjustment for that 1 payment on that cyclone thing, roughly around 5%, though it is what I calculated. So this is more attributed to mix, would that be the right way to look at it for Mundra specifically?

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

Yes, that is the correct way of looking at it.

[Venugopal Garre, Senior Analyst]

Okay. Last question, finance cost Q-Q has moved up substantially. Is it more to do with these bond issuances costs around that? Or...

[Deepak Maheshwari, Chief Financial Officer]

Some of it is attributed to that. But as you would recall that when we had met and when we had discussed the March results, we had mentioned that we have carried certain extra amount of liquidity because we were looking at completing a few transactions. That additional liquidity that we carried was carried through for most of the quarter. In fact, some of the transactions that we had thought about were only completed. As we just mentioned, the B2B as well as Myanmar have been completed only in this particular quarter. So we did carry the additional liquidity for most of the quarter, and hence, when you reflect and compare that with the Q4 number, you will see that it's slightly higher as compared to Q4 because we have carried the liquidity for a larger part of the quarter than as we had carried in Q4.

[Venugopal Garre, Senior Analyst]

But if I'm assuming that roughly a INR 50 crores increase Q-Q in finance cost is because the higher liquidity you're carrying. So correspondingly, the other income increase of INR 10 crores is frankly because of the lower interest rate on the extra. That is the way to look at it, right?

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

That's correct.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] Next question is from the line of Amit ( sic) [ Sumit ] Kishore from JPMorgan.

[Sumit Kishore, Research Analyst]

This is Sumit. My first question is on the Logistics business, where we have seen about 12% revenue growth, with the consolidation of ALL possibly expecting slightly higher growth here in revenues. So could you please speak about that? And what contribution ALL have made to revenue and EBITDA this time?

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

Sure. So I think the revenue growth is little less than the volume growth is mainly because we were running shorter distances. And that is the reason why the freight revenue is lower than the volume growth that we saw. In terms of -- I think if you see our EBITDA margins, EBITDA margins have improved significantly by almost 160%. And if you see from ALL -- just 1 second, I'll just give you a breakup of ALL versus AALL. So if you -- just give me 1 second. So ALL revenue has grown by 20% from INR 154 -- from INR 123 crores to INR 154 crores, and AALL has grown from INR 9 crores to INR 28 crores. But the INR 9 crores, it is not giving you the right picture because it's only some part of the -- it's only accounted for the last few days, which hit our balance sheet.

[Sumit Kishore, Research Analyst]

Sure. Okay, okay. So this sort of a EBITDA margin profile would be sustainable?

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

Yes, it will be because if you see, we have been able to reduce our empty running as well as, as we had said that AALL revenue is all on take-or-pay basis. So that has a much higher EBITDA margin. So if you see ALL EBITDA margin has increased from 10% to 11% to almost 16%, and ALL -- AALL continues to gain -- to run at 70% EBITDA margin.

[Sumit Kishore, Research Analyst]

Okay. And Karan, my second question is sharing about overall macro slowdown here. So sometimes, there is a certain EXIM environment we operate in. But if I look at your container business growth barring possibly CT2, CT3, I think there has been very strong growth across the board in containers. So Mundra, while it is 3%, it's very mixed across various terminals. So what exactly has happened in CT2 and CT3? And is there any impact of slowdown, et cetera, that you see relative to...

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

Sure. So CT3, we -- the volume is mainly because we dropped in terms of our transshipment volumes. If you see, CT3 we had a negative growth, and that is mainly we lost out on the transshipment volume. CT2, we are running at almost full capacity. So plus/minus, it is mainly an operational issue. We have not lost out in terms of volume over there in CT2. In CT2, you will see volume picking up from October onwards, when we commission our T2 terminal, which is the expansion of CT2. So with that in, from October onwards, you will see volume picking up in CT2. I think overall, we see -- we are seeing few signs of slowdown. And that's why we are seeing that our growth this year will be in the range of 10% rather than the 10% to 12% as what we had guided at the start of the year. So far, we have -- I think we'll have to take a call in October depending on how -- depending on if there are any changes in the policies which will revive the economy. But the way it is looking right now, we're looking at a 10% growth.

[Sumit Kishore, Research Analyst]

And CT2 expansion is what size?

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

It is 0.5 million TEU -- phase 1 is 0.5 million and then eventually it will move to 1.2 million.

[Sumit Kishore, Research Analyst]

Sure. But just one observation. On Slide #20, if I add the incremental cargo that you're expecting from coal, dry cargo, liquid crude, LNG, LPG, you said about 1 million tonne and container 10 million tonne, that's an incremental about 25 million tonnes, which actually places you closer to 12% growth than what the sentence below that seems to favor.

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

Yes. But as I said, that obviously there's -- we have to see how the economy is. So far, what we see is -- we are seeing at a 10%, so what we are looking at.

[Deepak Maheshwari, Chief Financial Officer]

Just to supplement what Karan just mentioned, so these are some specific changes in the cargo profile or increments in the cargo that we are seeing and we are working towards very aggressively. And this is just to provide more granularity as to where the growth is likely to come from. It just doesn't mean that each one of those numbers will be hit. But on an aggregate, that's where we expect us to be.

[Operator]

The next question is from the line of Atul Tiwari from Citigroup.

[Atul Tiwari, Vice President and Analyst]

Congrats on great operational numbers. Sir, what was the gross debt number and the cash on the balance sheet post these 2 U.S. dollar bond issuance?

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

So the $650 million bond issuance, which is the second one, that's largely -- that's not largely, that is only for refinancing. As I mentioned, it's a liability management exercise. The entire $650 million is being used for refinancing our bonds, which were due next year. So it's overall a part of the, as I said, liability management exercise, just increasing the maturity profile that we have. The remaining $750 million is -- will be on our books and it will be used for RBI-approved purposes, which largely include any of the capital expenditure that we have to incur during the course of this year. And so as we progress, we'll keep dipping into it and using it. Otherwise, it will all be sitting on our balance sheet as cash.

[Atul Tiwari, Vice President and Analyst]

Okay. But sir, what was the gross debt number as -- at least as of the quarter end?

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

The gross debt number at the end of March was INR 27,000 crores.

[Atul Tiwari, Vice President and Analyst]

And about June?

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

As you know that during the quarterly results, we only discuss the P&L numbers. But our net debt-to-EBITDA, as we have always maintained, will continue to be in the range of 3:1.

[Operator]

The next question is from the line of Vibhor Singhal from PhillipCapital Private Limited.

[Vibhor Singhal]

So Karan, just wanted to check with you, you mentioned that you're seeing signs of slowdown and that is probably what has prompted us to expect around 10% kind of a growth. So just 2 parts to that. So one is, if you could just elaborate a little bit more on what kind of signs you are seeing, specifically we just kind of -- apart from the economy of course going down, any basically slowdown in the kind of inquiries or the deal signings or the overall cargo volume that we are seeing, which is leading you to say that, okay, yes, we are seeing that kind of a slowdown? And secondly, the 10% kind of growth that we are expecting. Is it just a fallout of the economic slowdown as well or do you expect some maybe drop in cargo from the levels that we are -- that we did in this quarter per se?

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

Mainly, to be honest, we are saying -- I'm saying this 10% growth is mainly because we are seeing the overall volume and the overall trade, not just for us, but pan-India trade and the kind of growth that we are seeing. Based on that, we feel it will be -- we are confident of reaching around 10%. I think in terms of SEZ, we are seeing still -- we are still seeing inquiries over there, but we are not seeing from inquiry to conversion. Conversion rates are little slower than what we expected. And -- sorry, what was your second question?

[Vibhor Singhal]

So my question was basically what are the kind of economic slowdown signals that you are seeing which are probably looking to do this? And the other part was do we expect the cargo to drop from the quarterly level, the 57 million tonnes that we did this quarter? Could we expect maybe a drop in that number that is probably leading us to that kind of a number?

[Deepak Maheshwari, Chief Financial Officer]

So just to add to what -- supplement what Karan said, I think that you would see that this particular quarter, we have done around 57 million tonnes, 57 MMT. We expect that the overall growth to be in the range of around 10% because we are supplemented by a number of drivers. If you would see that Dhamra is performing much better in this particular quarter and is likely to perform better as the year progresses, thereby providing certain impetus to the growth that we typically would have had. So it's a mix of also not just seeing as to how the economy is doing, but also to see as to what is the potential of the economic hinterland, and whether we were servicing it adequately or whether we were constrained in servicing that particular hinterland adequately. So even though some of the growth may be reduced because of our own ability and because of the unique position that we have of our assets, we may be able to do a much better increase in the market share as compared to earlier. And more specifically, we don't really expect the numbers to be any different in the growing quarter at this point of time, the basis with where we are seeing the economy to be.

[Vibhor Singhal]

Sir, that's fair enough. Just one last question from my side. What is the status on the Vizhinjam Port and what is the kind of time line that we are looking for its commencing the operations here?

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

So phase 1, we are expecting by end of 2020 or early 2021, commissioning of phase 1. And then -- sorry, go ahead.

[Vibhor Singhal]

So that remains the same as we were. So there's no delay as per se?

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

No. No, there is no delay over there.

[Operator]

The next question is from the line of Parash Jain from HSBC.

[Parash Jain, Head of Transport Research, Asia]

Karan and Deepak, I have probably got one question for Karan and few for Deepak. If I may ask Karan first. What we have seen, that revenue growth has outpaced the volume growth despite the fact that traditional coal did much better than probably higher-yielding container. Have you seen across the board an increase in the yield or it was more, as you mentioned, that transshipments drop-off have significantly improved the yield from container. On a like-for-like basis, does it mean that your margin would have been higher? And maybe if you can respond to that, then I can go to Deepak.

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

Sure. So I think, Parash, it's a mix of both. We have increased our pricing by almost 3% to 3.5% on per-tonne basis. Second is increases in Dhamra. We have handled more high-paying cargos, which has contributed to that growth as well. And in terms of transshipment, yes, that has also brought down -- I mean, the portion of transshipment that we handle, that has brought down the revenue -- I mean, that has helped in increasing the revenue per tonne. But on per-TEU basis, it didn't -- I mean, on EBITDA basis, it's didn't matter too much.

[Parash Jain, Head of Transport Research, Asia]

Okay. Yes, that's good. And Deepak, with respect to the interest, I know it has been asked also, but given the kind of interest environment that we are witnessing and some of your refinancing at the rate which are lower than 4%, I mean, look 3 years out, do you see your average borrowing cost to decline by, I don't know, I mean, if I throw a number 100 basis point? Or you think that your current interest rate is pretty much the trajectory that you will foresee despite access to the different form of funding?

[Deepak Maheshwari, Chief Financial Officer]

So I think it's very difficult one to answer more specifically on the coupons that we might end up paying -- end up. Because a large portion, as you will clearly appreciate, is that as we do our dollar borrowings, it's linked to how the U.S. treasuries also perform. And so we have more control from a credit standpoint as to what the credit spreads are likely to be. And for the 5-year bond that we recently did, we were -- we breached through the fair value, and we were able to do it at 5-year treasury plus 150 basis points. Now where the 5-year treasury is going to be, it is really difficult and difficult for us to predict. But it's fair to say that we refinanced a 3.5% coupon with the 3.375%, so largely on a similar ballpark. As we see going into the near future, at least we see that treasury rates have clearly come off and they're likely to be in that particular range. We also see that the rupee rates have come off and they're likely to continue to be in that particular range, at least for the next 6 to 12 months. So overall, we are going into an environment which has lower interest rates. So yes, the benchmark rate should be lower. The credit spreads don't necessarily come down at the same pace or at the same time. And sometimes the spreads might widen because people might be looking for an absolute yield. So on the ballpark, I think we'll be around the same numbers. But there are quite a few market factors to play there.

[Parash Jain, Head of Transport Research, Asia]

Perfect. And you're okay, happy with your dollar versus INR exposure in terms of debt?

[Deepak Maheshwari, Chief Financial Officer]

Yes. Yes. And as we have always indicated that we do look at -- we do have this natural hedge and we look at -- our 5-year period of our dollar inflows, and we match that with the 5-year liabilities that we have. So yes, we continue to work within that same paradigm.

[Parash Jain, Head of Transport Research, Asia]

Yes. And then one last question before I pass it on to the next and maybe for both of you. When I look at your FY '20 CapEx and like a large part of that is going on the expansion -- expansionary CapEx. Can you highlight like given the utilization level that you have in your existing portfolio over the next 2 to 3 years, which ports will cater to the most of those expansionary CapEx?

[Deepak Maheshwari, Chief Financial Officer]

So most of that will go between Dhamra, Kattupalli and Vizhinjam. That is where the majority of the CapEx will go and that will be predominantly into diversifying that -- each of those ports.

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

Yes. I think that's absolutely right. I think just to add a bit to it that when we are looking at our CapEx programs, we are -- you typically find that our CapEx is either -- for an existing port, it will either be for a particular cargo type, which already has a high level of utilization. So for instance, the CapEx will go into Mundra for CT2 for a terminal where it is already running high levels of utilization, or it would be for adding another cargo type into an existing port. So for instance, in Kattupalli, you would find the expansion is going into liquid.

[Operator]

The next question is from the line of [ Prateek Gupta ] from [ BlackRock ]. The next question is from the line of Sriram Kumar from Spark Capital.

[Sriram Kumar;Spark Capital;Analyst]

Sir, my first question would be what would be the harbor service income and EBITDA for this quarter?

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

And yes, can you just give your second question as well while we just get this right?

[Sriram Kumar;Spark Capital;Analyst]

Yes. So, sir, in Dhamra Port, if you look at the volumes, it has increased, but our realization per tonne has decreased while EBITDA margin has increased. So can you please elaborate on the nature of cargo that has been contributing to the EBITDA margin increase?

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

Sure. So if you were to look at harbor, if you were to see Page 41, you will see we have provided the operating revenues as well as the EBITDA for harbor. So it's -- so it's, okay, INR 334 crores is the revenue and INR 306 crores is the EBITDA for the quarter with a EBITDA margin of 92%.

[Sriram Kumar;Spark Capital;Analyst]

Sir, so the second question is on Dhamra. So the volumes have increased, but realization per tonne has decreased while at the same time, EBITDA margin has increased. So what is the nature of cargo that has been handled in Dhamra?

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

So Dhamra is predominantly coal imports, both thermal and coking coal, and exports is mainly iron ore. So this quarter, we have done...

[Deepak Maheshwari, Chief Financial Officer]

So there is -- if you were to do the right comparison for Dhamra, Dhamra last year in quarter 1 also had an additional dredging cost. So if you were to adjust it for that, then you will find that the numbers -- so the dredging cost last was INR 42 crores in Q1 FY '19 and INR 29 crores in this quarter. So the difference of around INR 13-odd crores. So you -- if you were to use that as an adjustment, you would find that the numbers would change by around 6% or 7%, and then the gap would not be as much as 14% that you're seeing right now. And we're handling more through mechanization as well. Yes, so it's reducing the costs and increasing the EBITDA.

[Sriram Kumar;Spark Capital;Analyst]

Yes. So going forward, what would be the EBITDA that we can look forward for Dhamra? 60%, 65% or something?

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

So we are targeting on a long-term basis anything between 65% to 68%.

[Sriram Kumar;Spark Capital;Analyst]

Sure, sir. Sure, sir. Sir, on Dahej, volumes shift to Hazira, can you please explain the -- what kind of volumes that has shifted from Dahej, sir?

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

That's mainly coal, thermal coal. Which is moving by road.

[Sriram Kumar;Spark Capital;Analyst]

Moving by road, okay. So on the Mundra transshipment, sir, is that transshipment bound to Far East? I mean, towards China and so?

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

No, no. That's mainly Middle East transshipment. Middle East and East Africa transshipment.

[Sriram Kumar;Spark Capital;Analyst]

Sorry, sir. Middle East and?

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

East Africa.

[Sriram Kumar;Spark Capital;Analyst]

East Africa, okay. Sir, in terms of CapEx and acquisition. So obviously, next year, we know what would be the kind of CapEx you're doing. So for the -- post that, what will be the acquisition we are looking at and the CapEx we are looking at for, let's say, FY '21? Because we're raising around USD 700 million, so any thoughts on...

[Deepak Maheshwari, Chief Financial Officer]

Just on the acquisition side, it's always very difficult for us to say as to what we would specifically be looking or considering. And we will clearly come out once we have identified something. As you would see in the past, we have come out with timely announcements for all the acquisitions and investments that we have made. So we'll follow a similar behavior and pattern for that as well. As we have indicated in our presentations, typically we have around INR 2,000 crores to INR 2,500 crores as CapEx, which is for our existing portfolio of ports. This year and next year, the numbers will be different because we are going to be investing in Myanmar. And as we have indicated earlier, the total CapEx for Myanmar is in the range of around $275 million to $290 million. And hence, we just have to split that number broadly across both the years, which would mean that around INR 1,000-odd crores per annum for the next 2 years, which is relating to Myanmar.

[Sriram Kumar;Spark Capital;Analyst]

Yes. So on the acquisition side, sir, is it -- are we looking at more on logistics side or the port side, sir?

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

Yes. We are looking at all assets, which are -- which if they come at right price, we are happy to look at them.

[Sriram Kumar;Spark Capital;Analyst]

Sir, my final question would be on the marine income and royalty income. Sir, can you please give that per tonne for LNG and the LPG terminal what would be the marine income separately and royalty income separately.

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

Can we give it to you separately? I will ask them to send it to you. If it is fine.

[Sriram Kumar;Spark Capital;Analyst]

Sure, sir. Sure, sir.

[Operator]

The next question is from the line of Aditya Mongia from Kotak Securities Limited.

[Aditya Mongia, Research Analyst]

Congratulations for the very strong set of numbers on the port business front. So I had a few questions. The first one was on this dollar loan that you have taken this time around, the $750 million. Do you envisage scope of raising further dollar-denominated borrowings from hereon, given the 5-year asset liability mismatch exercise that you've done?

[Deepak Maheshwari, Chief Financial Officer]

I think it's -- at this point of time, it's very difficult for us to comment on that. There still is a lot of relaxation, which has come through in the ECB guidelines, which we continue to evaluate. Prior to today, prior to the new modifications in the ECB guidelines, we would have -- have to have specific CapEx for which dollar loans could be raised. The ECB guidelines now do provide raising up to 7 year's money if it was to be used for refinancing of rupee debt. So there are certain flexibilities which have come through because of changes in the regulatory framework. We continue to evaluate that. At this point of time, we really haven't made any firm decisions about any of these financing plans.

[Aditya Mongia, Research Analyst]

Sure. Got that. The second question which I had was related to Dhamra. Now obviously, Dhamra has seen some investments happening in the past and more are in store. Could you give us a sense of where utilization levels are at this point of time? And which cargo parcels would require CapEx from hereon?

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

So right now we are still in the midst of completing our phase 2 expansion. Our phase 2 expansion was taking our capacity from 25 million to 50 million tonnes. And so far, we -- by November of this year, we -- November or December of this year, we will reach -- we will look at completing that phase 2 expansion. And then that's where we are looking at sort of putting our CapEx. And the second part where the CapEx is going in Dhamra is the construction of the LNG jetty, which the port has to do. Apart from that, we don't foresee further CapEx, at least for a period of 6 to 7 months till we bring the volume up to the level of 40 million tonnes.

[Aditya Mongia, Research Analyst]

Got that. So the next question which I had was more related to the kind of funding which has happened to related parties in the last year. The annual report suggests that the company has incrementally put in money in related parties under the head Other Financial and Nonfinancial Assets. Could you give us some more color as to where or what -- to what use this money is going to be put in? And if there would be further increases in the quantum in FY '20?

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

Look, so I would think that what you're alluding to is on the page, which is relating to the related party transactions. And this was something that we mentioned during the call when we had for the annual results. That during the course of last year, the Mundra LPG asset was -- further investments were made in the Mundra LPG asset by the promoter entities. Because of which Mundra LPG no longer continue to be a part of APSEZ. And as a part of that particular transaction, the construction costs which was incurred by APSEZ, that had to be repaid back to APSEZ along with the lease rentals and the port development income. And we had mentioned as well at the end of the annual results that the construction costs have already been paid by the promoter entities, thereby resulting in a reduction in the related party transactions. It was for a specific transaction, which we had highlighted and we had discussed. And that's already getting unbound -- it's unbound already. Sorry.

[Aditya Mongia, Research Analyst]

Got that. Got that. So basically, that was a point in time kind of transaction which sort of happened regarding this change in structure and it's been reversed?

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

That's right. That's right. That's correct. So construction costs were already incurred and they were just repaid.

[Aditya Mongia, Research Analyst]

Got that. Just the last question from my side. This is more on the Container segment. Given kind of the moderation in growth happening for us and for the West Coast ports, do you envisage a scenario wherein it would be difficult to take price increases for FY '20? And if, let's say, it kind of continues, then maybe pressure on existing prices from hereon?

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

No. All the contracts which we have signed in container are long term. So we don't foresee any pressure on pricing. In fact, we have actually increased our prices this year by almost 3%, 3.5% on per TEU basis as well -- on per tonne basis.

[Operator]

The next question is from the line of Varun Mittal from Edelweiss.

[Swarnim Maheshwari, Research Analyst]

This is Swarnim here. Sir, 2 questions. First is, when you look at the SEZ revenue this quarter, it was just about INR 13-odd crores. I know it's not material in the overall scheme of things, but I would -- we were under the impression that when you look at the lease rental business, at least of about INR 150 crores to INR 200-odd crores, that's more of a regular monthly kind of a income. So -- but that is not getting reflected.

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

It's generally per -- it's -- generally, it's per year. So it is just a matter of timing.

[Swarnim Maheshwari, Research Analyst]

So the lease rental part, I mean that would be...

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

Yes, it's an annual lease rental. It is not a monthly lease rental.

[Swarnim Maheshwari, Research Analyst]

Okay. So wouldn't that accrue at every month or like that would be just booked in the end of the year, is it?

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

No. It depends on contract to contract, when we have signed a contract with those unitholders. So it is linked to that. It is not linked to a particular -- at the start of the financial year, it's more of when the contracts were signed.

[Swarnim Maheshwari, Research Analyst]

Okay. All right. And then my second question is, sir, was there any impact of Ind-AS 116 over there in this quarter?

[Deepak Maheshwari, Chief Financial Officer]

So there was a impact. So what we have done is Ind-AS 116 has impact on depreciation. So depreciation has gone up by INR 11 crore and some portion has gone into finance cost. So to that extent, EBITDA has gone up, yes.

[Swarnim Maheshwari, Research Analyst]

I'm sorry, EBITDA has gone up?

[Deepak Maheshwari, Chief Financial Officer]

So because the Ind-AS impact is going down, how much is it? So INR 11 crore is in depreciation and INR 7 crores in interest cost. So INR 18 crores EBITDA has gone up, yes, over the quarter.

[Swarnim Maheshwari, Research Analyst]

Okay. Okay, not meaningful as such?

[Deepak Maheshwari, Chief Financial Officer]

Yes.

[Swarnim Maheshwari, Research Analyst]

Fair enough, sir.

[Operator]

The next question is from the line of Prateek Kumar from Antique Stockbroking Limited.

[Prateek Kumar, Analyst]

So, sir, so does this tapering of transshipment volumes which is seen at Mundra Port, so is it something related to industry or is this port-specific, company-specific?

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

It's mainly industry related and it was realigning their services. So it's mainly because of that.

[Prateek Kumar, Analyst]

I'm sorry, I didn't get you.

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

So it is linked. It's not port specific, it was shipping line specific. It was -- most of the transshipment at Mundra Port is done by MSC Shipping Line. So they were realigning their services and because of that those transshipment volume has dropped, which we expect that to come up in Q2 and Q3.

[Prateek Kumar, Analyst]

Okay. And regarding this SEZ income, which you said, so regarding the sale of Mundra LNG assets during the year, you said INR 700 crore related to that income you're expecting. So there is nothing we're expecting from Dhamra LNG LPG assets this year?

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

No, not this year.

[Prateek Kumar, Analyst]

But there was this joint venture which has been formed, which has also -- had been mentioned in annual report where Total has invested some money already in this year. So that project is not progressing? Or the construction is back and...

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

Dhamra LNG is a 3-year project. So the -- it's a issue of timing. So we don't expect this year any income to come out of Dhamra LNG. It is purely milestone based. So there are certain milestones that we have to achieve for us to recognize that income and for that to come from the JV to APL.

[Prateek Kumar, Analyst]

Okay. And regarding the CT2 or T2 expansion at Mundra, which, phase 1, we said expected by September '19, by 0.5 million. When is this remaining 0.7 in phase 2 expected?

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

That will happen next year. So we have -- we want to start with phase 1. We want to fill it up to almost 65%, 70% before we go into an expansion.

[Prateek Kumar, Analyst]

And just one question on this. You mentioned about HMEL give -- win contract for NAFTA handling in Mundra ports. Can you elaborate on -- so this will be counted in other cargo?

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

Yes. So this is in liquid cargo. It's basically NAFTA export that HMEL does from their Bathinda refinery, which comes by rail into Mundra Port and it gets exported. The average export per year is around 250,000 tonnes is what we are expecting.

[Prateek Kumar, Analyst]

So this will give this kind of volume in the other cargo, which is like liquid cargo at Mundra?

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

Yes, that's it. Yes, that's it.

[Operator]

The next question is from the line of Ashish Shah from Centrum Broking.

[Ashish Shah, Analyst of Infrastructure and Airlines]

Sir, on the Vizhinjam phase 1, could you say what is the completed cost at the end of phase 1? And eventually, what will the cost be?

[Deepak Maheshwari, Chief Financial Officer]

It's hard to give the, I mean, phase 1 cost, but the total cost of Vizhinjam is around INR 4,000 crores. And from that -- which includes the viability gap funding that we will get from the government.

[Ashish Shah, Analyst of Infrastructure and Airlines]

Right. And in terms of the timing, the phase 1 and phase 2 would be what? Like a year part?

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

Yes. It will be a year apart.

[Ashish Shah, Analyst of Infrastructure and Airlines]

Sure. But sir, that hasn't changed. That INR 4,000 crores -- basically, what I was meaning to ask is that despite the delay, there seems to be -- we have this change in the cost?

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

No. No. No. There's no cost escalation which has happened.

[Ashish Shah, Analyst of Infrastructure and Airlines]

Okay. As of now, what percentage of this cost would have been done?

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

Mainly, the cost has gone into the brake water, which is again a funded work. And in terms of the nonfunded works, we have already placed the order for the equipments and the jetty is almost done. But as you know, the jetty equipments are running on LCs since it's the trade credit. So it doesn't show on our books in terms of large CapEx right now.

[Ashish Shah, Analyst of Infrastructure and Airlines]

Sure. Okay. And sir, on the Mundra LNG side, I get an impression -- I mean, the LNG has been -- terminal has been ready for probably over a year now. But we are still do get volumes. And obviously, we did say that later this year, we'll start getting some volumes, about 0.5 million tonne. So why so much delay in getting volumes and revenues from this asset?

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

So there is -- there was a dispute over there, which we have sorted out with the JV company, which was mainly on the income that -- on the common infrastructure that the port had developed for the terminal. So we are expecting that this -- I mean, we have closed that issue and that's why we are very confident now that the volumes will start flowing and confident on the income that we have suggested.

[Ashish Shah, Analyst of Infrastructure and Airlines]

And sir, in this settlement of a dispute, have we had to accept some sort of a lower compensation or this is what we had initially thought?

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

This is what we had initially thought.

[Operator]

Ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraint, that was the last question. I will now hand the conference over to Mr. Devesh Agarwal for closing comments.

[Devesh Agarwal, Assistant Vice President]

Thank you, everyone, for joining in today. I also thank the management for giving us an opportunity to host the call. Karan, would you like to add any closing remarks?

[Karan G. Adani, CEO & Whole Time Director]

No. Thank you so much for -- everybody, for your time. And thank you for your support. And we are always there if you have any more questions, our team is always there to answer further questions. Thank you.

[Deepak Maheshwari, Chief Financial Officer]

Thank you very much.

[Operator]

Thank you very much.