MaxCyte Inc

NASDAQ:MXCT

Earnings Call Analysis

MaxCyte Reports Q3 2023 Performance and Outlook

MaxCyte's third-quarter revenue fell 25% year-over-year to $8 million, missing analyst expectations. Core business faced challenges, evident from processing assemblies sales causing a 33% drop to $6.6 million. Softness in the cell therapy and drug discovery customer base curbed spending and instrument placements, while leased instrument revenue also dipped by 11%. SPL program-related revenues stayed on target at $1.4 million. The bioprocessing market potential remains a bright spot, with the Vertex partnership promising significant milestones. Total operating expenses increased to $21.2 million, pushing against robust gross margins of 90%. With $208.7 million in cash equivalents and no debt, 2023 guidance is reaffirmed at $34-36 million total revenue, and a conservative cash burn projection of $27 million positions MaxCyte for future long-term growth.

Sharp Decline in Sales Amidst Challenging Environment

The company faced a considerable 44% downturn in sales compared to the previous year. Revenue garnered from leased instruments also fell by 11%, underscoring the difficulties customers encountered in a challenging operational climate. However, a silver lining emerged as gross margins improved from 87% to 90%, reflecting a favorable mix of core and SPL program-related revenue. The company ended the third quarter with $208.7 million in cash and equivalents, staying debt-free, which is a notable strength in its financial position.

Guidance Affirms Cautious Stance Amid Unpredictable Market

Echoing the sentiments from an earlier financial forecast, the company reaffirmed revenue expectations for the year to be in the range of $34 million to $36 million, with core revenue projected between $28 million to $30 million. SPL program revenue is set to meet the prior estimate of $6 million. This cautious outlook takes into account the unpredictable funding environment and customers' buying patterns. By year-end, the company aims to retain around $200 million in cash and equivalents, remaining debt-free.

Long-term Optimism Anchored by Partnership Potential

Despite the immediate fiscal challenges, the company maintains a bullish long-term stance, driven by the progress and potential of its partnerships in the cell and gene therapy market. This optimism is cemented by the broadening scope of applications for their technology, including the expansion into autoimmune therapies that demand larger volumes of cells, suitably aligned with their system's capabilities.

Strategic Focus on Non-Viral Cell Engineering

The management believes that the importance of non-viral cell engineering will burgeon, especially if therapies like exa-cel gain approval, as it could intensify interest and participation in the market. The upcoming year looks promising for sharing more about how disruptive this technology can be, particularly for early-stage program development.

Solidifying a Strong SPL Pipeline Amid Industry Shakeup

While some early-stage development companies are hindered by financial barriers, which impact SPL agreements, the pipeline remains strong and attractive for ongoing discussions. The company anticipates the approval of exa-cel to mark a significant milestone within the industry, positioning themselves as a key player in hastening non-viral cell therapy assets in and through the clinical process.

Navigating Competitive Pressures and Price Stability

Despite a tumultuous macroeconomic landscape, the company's value proposition remains intact: reducing risk and accelerating development. A testimony to their competitive stance is the impressive 90% gross margins, indicating their ability to maintain pricing and assert dominance in their market. They remain alert to changes in their business model to continue supporting partners effectively.

Cautious Approach to Process Assembly Sales Outlook

Taking a conservative perspective, the company is reluctant to speculate on 2024 guidance, including process assembly sales. With the remainder of the year in view, they've lowered expectations to ensure meeting revised guidance targets. The company stays close to its customers and leans on a healthy lease revenue visibility and a feasible number of opportunities to reach its forecasts.

Earnings Call Transcript 2023-Q3

[Operator]

Good day, and thank you for standing by, and welcome to the MaxCyte Third Quarter Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded.

I would now like to introduce your host for today's call, Sean Menarguez, Senior Director of Innovation and Business Development. Please go ahead.

[Sean Menarguez, executive]

Well, thank you, Justin, and good afternoon, everyone. My name is Sean Menarguez. I'm the Director of Innovation and Business Development here at MaxCyte. Thank you all for participating in today's conference call.

On the call from MaxCyte's side is Douglas Doerfler, President and Chief Executive Officer; and Douglas Swirsky, Chief Financial Officer. Earlier today, MaxCyte released financial results for the third quarter ended September 30, 2023. A copy of the press release is available on the company's website.

Before we begin, I need to read the following statement. Statements or comments made during this call may be forward-looking statements within the meaning of federal securities laws. Any statements contained in this call that relate to expectations or predictions of future events, results or performance are forward-looking statements.

Actual results may differ materially from those expressed or implied in any forward-looking statements due to a variety of factors, which are discussed in detail in our SEC filings. The company has no obligation to publicly update any forward-looking statements [indiscernible] when because of new information, future events or otherwise.

And with that, I'll turn the call over to Doug.

[Douglas Doerfler, executive]

Thank you, Sean. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining MaxCyte's Third Quarter 2023 Earnings Call. I will begin with a discussion of our business and operational highlights during the quarter, followed by a detailed financial review from Doug Swirsky, DJ, our financial -- our Chief Financial Officer. We will then open the call for questions. .

MaxCyte reported $8 million in total revenue in the third quarter at the high end of our preannounced revenue range. Core revenue was $6.6 million, also at the high end of our preannounced range. Over the last month, the business has performed in line with the expectations we laid out on our call on October 4. And today, we are reiterating our revenue guidance for the full year of 2023.

The operating environment for our customers has largely remained unchanged from when we spoke in October. Our primary focus remains on driving commercial execution to improve performance across our business and the commercial organization at MaxCyte is actively working to increase and expand sales opportunities for the balance of 2023 and into 2024.

I will briefly revisit some of the challenges we are facing that drove the preannounced reduction in our revenue guidance, which we pointed to on our call on October 4.

The primary driver of core business performance was softness in processing assemblies or PA sales. We continue to believe can be attributed to these 3 factors: Early-stage customers in cell therapy and drug discovery conserving spend and reevaluating their pipeline portfolio and R&D initiatives; customers built up inventory in 2022. And due to the prioritization of programs, a reduction in spend the existing inventory has covered more of their PA needs; and third, clinical SPL partners delaying clinical time lines due to challenges in obtaining additional financing for their clinical operations.

Another factor in the weakness of our core business performance was early-stage customers becoming incrementally more conservative on capital expenditures as the year has progressed, which has impacted our instrument placements.

Though we have seen the macroeconomic operating environment play out unfavorably this year. We continue to see cell therapy industry trends that favor of MaxCyte's platform. The industry continues to move toward non-viral cell engineering. Approaches that include multiple pathway engineering steps across many diseases.

Specifically, our partners continue to expand their cell therapy indications into new unmet needs, including autoimmune disease, providing us with the opportunity to support our partners as they scale up and scale out their manufacturing process.

Furthermore, developers are increasing the complexity of their cell therapy product with multiple edits on the cell, which positions MaxCyte well given the platform's high cell engineering performance across a wide variety of gene edits and gene-edited modalities.

Developers are also looking into multiple doses and/or increased dosing regimens for complex indications, which further supports the market need for engineered large cell volumes.

Our customers and partners can leverage our scientific, technical and regulatory support and capabilities to optimize the clinical manufacturing process for the growing set of cell therapy applications.

Just this year, we signed 5 SPL partnerships, which highlights the value that our platform brings to our customers. We continue to see a healthy pipeline of potential partners. All in all, we are encouraged by the nonviral engineered cell therapy trends in addition to the potential for our partners to make an impact as they progress their programs through the clinic and reach commercialization.

We remain highly engaged with our customers, both current and prospective and are excited by the opportunity to expand our SPL partnership portfolio and grow our revenue. In the third quarter, we reported SPL program-related revenues of $1.4 million and remain confident that we will at least meet our guidance of approximately $6 million this year. We believe this high-value revenue line will continue to be meaningful in the coming years as several waves of different therapies we support potentially come to market.

We are excited by partners' progress and look forward to the potential impact of therapies that utilize MaxCyte's platform. Looking ahead, there is substantial clinical milestone and commercial revenue opportunity for MaxCyte as our partners move toward late-stage clinical development and commercialization.

In what would be the first commercially approved product enabled by our platform, CRISPR Vertex exa-cel is nearing the PDUFA date of December 8, 2023 and March 30, 2024, for sickle cell and beta-thalassemia, respectively. Just last week, on October 31, the FDA held an ADCOM meeting to discuss the treatment which highlights the therapeutic benefit of exa-cel and the important medical advance for the field and for patients.

As a reminder, we believe that all necessary investments in manufacturing and regulatory quality have been made on our end to support exa-cel's commercial launch. We look forward to the potential FDA approval of the first nonviral engineered cell therapy product, validating MaxCyte's platform. And which would also result in a significant milestone payment to us under our partnership with Vertex.

We continue to be excited about the prospects of the VLx platform and our expansion into the bioprocessing market. To provide some context, we are looking to help our customers improve workflow efficiency and accelerate time for the preclinical and early-stage manufacturer of monoclonal antibodies, recombinant proteins and vaccines. The VLx has a unique capability to enable rapid production of trans-elite expressed proteins at larger scale for preclinical and early clinical use in a much more efficient time horizon than the standard practice.

As a result, customers will be able to evaluate more preclinical leads at an appropriate scale and derive conclusions from late-stage preclinical research activities sooner than they normally would. Enabling them to proceed with development in a much faster time frame.

The efficiency that VLx brings to the process can potentially accelerate important decisions on late-stage preclinical development to enable developers to prioritize their clinical investments to the most promising assets.

We believe that the current market opportunity for the VLx is across approximately 3,000 preclinical assets in monoclonal antibody, recombinant protein and vaccine development, and we are optimistic about our opportunity in the coming years.

To lead this effort, we recently appointed Ali Suleiman Azad as Executive Vice President of Bioprocessing. Ali has been an important addition to the leadership team at MaxCyte with almost 20 years of experience in biomanufacturing, bioprocessing and bioanalysis, including serving as Executive Vice President for Separation and Purification at Toso Biosciences prior to joining MaxCyte. We firmly believe that he will guide the future of Max Sight's bioprocessing business, beginning with the growth of the VLx platform.

For the remainder of 2023 and into 2024, we are focused on supporting our customers and partners through targeted investments. We have already made substantial progress in enhancing our infrastructure and scientific and manufacturing capabilities to support customers pursuing complex cell therapies in the clinic as well as when they reach commercialization.

Over time, we believe the investments we are making today will drive substantial incremental value as we support multiple partners at various stages of development and commercial activity.

In closing, we continue to navigate the current operating environment with tax and flexibility. MaxCyte remains committed to supporting our current SPL partners in their program development and further expanding our portfolio of partnerships.

With that, I will now turn the call over to DJ to discuss our financial results. DJ?

[Douglas Swirsky, executive]

Thanks, Doug. Hello everyone. Total revenue in the third quarter of 2023 was $8 million compared to $10.6 million in the third quarter of 2022, representing a 25% decline.

In the third quarter, we reported core revenue of $6.6 million compared to $9.9 million in the comparable prior year quarter, representing a 33% decline. This includes revenue from cell therapy customers of $4.7 million and revenue from drug discovery customers of $1.9 million, which declined 40% and 5% year-over-year, respectively. The decline in revenues was primarily the result of softer PA cells as well as weaker instrument sales primarily in cell therapy due to the challenging funding environment.

Revenue from instrument and PA sales were down 44% in the third quarter compared to the previous year, and revenue from leased instruments declined 11% driven by the challenging operating environment that our customers continue to face.

We recognized $1.4 million of SPL program-related revenue in the third quarter of 2023 as expected. Due to our partners' continued progress through the clinic compared to $0.8 million of SPL program-related revenue in the third quarter of 2022. Moving down the P&L. Gross margin was 90% in the third quarter of 2023 compared to 87% in the third quarter of the prior year, driven by our mix between core and SPL program-related revenue.

Total operating expenses for the third quarter of 2023 were $21.2 million compared to $17 million in the third quarter of 2022. The overall increase in operating expenses was primarily driven by R&D, sales and marketing and manufacturing expenses.

The company continues to strategically invest in commercial sales and marketing operations, innovative product development and field application scientists, automated manufacturing capabilities as well as business and corporate development to drive long-term growth.

We finished the third quarter with combined total cash, cash equivalents and investments of $208.7 million and of course, no debt.

Moving to our full year 2023 guidance. We updated our outlook on our third quarter preliminary results conference call on October 4 and we are reiterating that outlook today as we expect total revenue for 2023 to be approximately $34 million to $36 million Core revenue is expected to be approximately $28 million to $30 million for the year, and SPL program-related revenue expectations remain unchanged from our previous guidance at approximately $6 million for the year.

Our updated guidance incorporates cautiousness around the challenging funding environment and customer purchasing patterns for the remainder of 2023. As we have discussed previously, the timing of partnership revenue is dependent upon our customers' clinical and regulatory progress and is fundamentally more difficult to predict than our core revenues. Which clearly has also been difficult to forecast this year due to the challenging operating environment discussed earlier.

Finally, MaxCyte remains in a strong financial position and continues to expect to end 2023 with approximately $200 million in cash, cash equivalents and investments and no debt on our balance sheet. Our expected cash burn for 2023 is approximately $27 million, in line with our 2022 cash burn of approximately $28 million. We have prudently managed our expenses and burn in 2023 and executed disciplined cost management in order to position the company to achieve our long-term goals.

I would like to close by reiterating that we remain confident in our 2023 revenue outlook, and we believe that our modest cash burn and balance sheet will support our future plans for long-term growth.

Now I'll turn the call back over to Doug.

[Douglas Doerfler, executive]

Well, thank you, DJ. Overall, despite the challenging operating environment this year, we firmly believe in the long-term outlook for MaxCyte. We're excited about the potential of our partnerships as they progress their assets through the clinic. And we remain committed to expanding our partnership portfolio to support the development of advanced cell-based therapeutics in the growing cell and gene therapy industry.

As always, we thank our MaxCyte team as well as our Board, suppliers investors, partners, patients and the great industry that we have the honor of serving.

With that, I will turn the call back over to Justin for the Q&A. Justin?

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] And our first question comes from Dan Arias.

[Daniel Arias, analyst]

Doug, maybe just a couple on the instrumentation side, specifically on cell therapy. Do you expect the lease versus sold dynamic to change at all in light of the things that are going on in the industry, at least has become a bigger part of that mix? And then on the VLx system, I appreciate your comments there. Anything quantitative that you might be able to add on the launch.

And then along those lines -- I mean when we think about usage there, I'm curious whether you think some of this program prioritization that's taking place across the industry could impact the adoption curve just in the sense that, to your point, it's a good tool for evaluating preclinical-clinical assets. Some of those are being back burned right now, so maybe less of a need for that kind of horsepower. Do you see that as a likely outcome or not really?

[Douglas Doerfler, executive]

There's a lot of questions there.

[Daniel Arias, analyst]

Yes, there are, sorry about that.

[Douglas Doerfler, executive]

That's okay. Let me talk about -- let me take 2 cuts at this and see if I answer all your questions. On the kind of the business model instrument side, I mean, I made a comment about being tactful with our partners, and I think it's truly important that we understand the situation they're in. We look at our business model and we're going to make changes as we feel are appropriate for helping our partners. And we're seeing the rationalization of these pipelines. And I do foresee us we may very well make some changes to our approach for the business model. Although I don't think they're going to be major approaches, they'll be around the edges.

And again, thinking through kind of the new use cases for our technology. Moving into autoimmune disease, where you have large patient populations. So I think you're seeing the cell therapy industry moving from autologous blood center therapies to moving into solid tumors and now autoimmune where it's going to open up to serve population. So we're excited about that. And that, of course, is going to have an impact on our business model.

On the VLx, quantitatively, we put a slide in the deck that laid out the difference between what we believe our system and being able to produce a protein in a couple of months versus the traditional way, which could be 6 months plus. I think that when there's more rationalization, I think there's going to be a lot more attention placed on speed to market, speed to decisions. And I think that's exactly where we're focusing our attention on.

It's whenever we can do to reduce the -- the early stage preclinical development time line for these partners, and they could be big pharma. They could be a relatively early-stage ADC company. They're all looking to do the same thing, and that's to get better products into the market faster. And if we can cut 6 -- 4, 6 months, a year off of that time frame, we think that's pretty valuable.

So we're excited. We think that VLx is coming out at the right time. to address some of the problems, I think, that we're seeing in the industry at large.

[Daniel Arias, analyst]

Okay. Appreciate you ticking through those there. Maybe just one quick follow-up. To your point, we are closing in on this exa-cel decision here. Obviously, we'll see how that ends up. But if we were to assume approval, I'm just curious about your expectation for a ramp in instrument utilization and consumables consumption as scale presumably takes place their scale up, presumably takes place there.

[Douglas Doerfler, executive]

Well, we obviously can't give you any guidance in terms of what '24 looks like, and this will be a '24 event. That said, we have been investing in ensuring that we've got instrumentation support from Vertex's side and CRISPR side in terms of manufacturing. And we're ready to scale up. I think we just saw an announcement they made, I guess, yesterday our press release about getting breakthrough therapeutic designation in Saudi Arabia.

So it will be interesting to see how this business develops and expands, but be assured that we're prepared fully to support them and execute against whatever plan they believe makes the most sense for them commercially.

[Operator]

Our next question comes from Jacob Johnson with Stephens Inc.

[Hannah Hefley, analyst]

This is actually Hannah on for Jacob. You've talked about expanding your geographic reach. Is this still a priority in this environment?

[Douglas Doerfler, executive]

That's a good question. I think the world is changing, of course. We're -- I think we're all focused on how we can navigate the China situation. I think we are -- frankly, I think this is more of an organic expansion. The science around cell therapy is expanding well beyond the U.S. and Europe and moving into Eastern Europe, it's moving into South America, moving certainly into APAC. And so we're following where that -- where those hubs of activity are. .

For us to enter into that a new geography, it could be as simple as us bringing a field application scientists and a salesperson into that account. It could be as extensive as bringing in a new distributor or building out more on land field applications people.

So I think our interest is always to follow the science, always follow where the commercial cell therapy field is setting. And then we'll make a decision what makes the most sense from an investment perspective for us.

[Hannah Hefley, analyst]

And then you're tracking ahead of your usual 3 to 4 SPL additions per year with 5 this year. How many are you expecting to add total in 2023? And do you expect the annual rate of additions to continue to outpace 3 to 4 in the future?

[Douglas Doerfler, executive]

We'll talk about '24 when we give guidance, we want to resist talking about that. I think we're pretty comfortable with the 5 we did this year. We really -- I don't think we are in a position to talk about anything additional in 2023.

[Operator]

Our next question comes from the line of Matt Larew with William Blair.

[Matthew Larew, analyst]

There was earlier this year sort of -- it seemed like around one of risk restructuring pipeline [indiscernible] prolification and then it seems that over the last couple of months, we've maybe had around 2 and a number of your FPL partners have been impacted by that in terms of risk restructuring. Just would be curious for your perspective on how much potentially more there is to go, just in your interaction with partners or core revenue or customers, how much they've really cut down programs to true high-priority assets? How much they've brought down their teams from a size perspective, just as maybe as a different way to gauge what inning of sort of the drawdown in the industry we're at?

[Douglas Doerfler, executive]

I'm trying to -- what is the question that I'm trying to understand. I agree with you that we're in a situation right now where we've got companies that are in partners who are scaling back. We've seen a couple of them just most recently, Lyle, for instance, and Sana did another one. So we're keeping pace with those customers. We're being close to those. What we're seeing is that when the focus and the rationalization is being drawn toward our products that we're currently involved with them. So that's a good sign. .

I think overall, it's a strong point for MaxCyte that we're working on those lead assets. I think it's very difficult for us to try to predict where the next situation is. I mean companies won't share that with us, obviously. They're going to announce them -- when they announce it and we're going to react and hopefully manage well with them as they make those decisions. I'm not sure I answered your question now, is there something more specific that you're looking for? I just want to be responsive to you, Matt.

[Matthew Larew, analyst]

No, I guess it was maybe not intentionally big. But I think you addressed [indiscernible] on what I was kind of hoping to get at.

So the second one would be you referenced, I think Dan's question around sales versus lease of instruments that you're willing to make changes as appropriate health partners. So that may be an internal change in response to the macro environment. Have you noticed or were you aware of any sort of external changes, be it competitive behavior around getting away instruments or cutting prices? Have you noticed any price pressure or additional competition kind of in a changing macro environment?

[Douglas Doerfler, executive]

I think our value proposition still holds true. I mean it's all about reducing risk and accelerating development. And those are 2 things that all these companies obviously, want to do. One indication is our gross margins, 90% gross margins in the quarter. And I think that's a tribute to our ability to maintain pricing in the marketplace. .

So just to give you those kind of data points right now, we're feeling pretty comfortable with where we are in terms of competition. We're not really seeing anything in kind of in our area. We have mentioned [indiscernible] in the past. We've seen a lot come in and out. A lot of companies that are trying to get into the space, kind of newer companies that are trying to figure out how they can take us on. I think that's just a healthy environment. It points to the -- I think it points to the importance of non-viral cell engineering in the future.

And I would project that after exa-cel gets approved, there will even be more people interested in trying to figure out how big that market is and how they can participate. That said, we're in a great position with our partners and our technology, and we're continuing to be the go-to premier company in this space.

[Matthew Larew, analyst]

Okay. The last one is just a follow-up on VLx. Earlier this year on the fourth quarter call, you mentioned that there was -- it was revenue generated in '22 that, that would grow in 2023. We're now a little over a year into the launch. So I think it's just sort of an early access focused launch. But is there anything you can share with us about how much VLx is contributing to the financial model at this point? Or is that something that you may be able to start sharing next year?

[Douglas Doerfler, executive]

I think we'll be much more comfortable sharing it next year. Ali is on board, he's doing a great job, really increasing the visibility of the offering to high-profile clients and really just talking about how disruptive this technology is and how important it is going to be for early-stage development of these programs.

So I think we'll be able to provide a much more fulsome view of the strategy and provide some expectations when we do so in '24.

[Operator]

And our next question comes from Steven Mah with TD Cowen.

[Unknown Analyst]

Maybe a follow-up to Hanna's questions on SPL adds. Maybe I'll ask it in a different way. This is more with regards to the funnel of your SPL leads has the potential success of exa-cel? Has it led to more business development inbounds or tractions with potential partners?

[Douglas Doerfler, executive]

I think the pipeline itself continues to be really, really strong and great. We're having excellent discussions with folks. Some of them would fall into the same camp that we've been talking about, where they have they're early stage development companies, and they really don't have the financial support to move into the clinic. And so that's -- that can pause our SPLs, although I think it's fair to say that we've got other companies that we're working with that have that same situation and they're moving forward.

I think my sense is that when exa-cel gets approved. I mean I think you heard in -- you heard it in the -- if you -- we heard it, we did -- we heard it in the AdCom meeting that there was very little concern about the manufacturing of that product. The safety profile looks great and the clinical evidence was extraordinarily strong. So our sense is that once that product gets approved, I think that's going to check a big box in the industry. and they're going to be looking upon us as the company that's going to be able to help accelerate and move those non-viral cell therapy assets into the clinic and through the clinic.

And again, as we've mentioned, we continue to see an expansion of of cell therapies in the new indication areas like autoimmune, for instance, we're seeing a lot of that in the past few months. We're also -- and that will require no doubt, more volume of cells to be delivered to patients on a longer period more of a chronic therapy. And I think that fits well with the scale and the efficiency of our system.

[Unknown Analyst]

Great. And one more question. when you brought the guide down in October, you mentioned inventory destocking of process assemblies. Some of the Bob production companies recently said on earnings that they're seeing a bottom with regards to destocking headwinds. Could you comment on what you're seeing out there? And if you have any customer visibility that suggests maybe there could be an uptick as activity picks up as this excess inventory gets used?

[Douglas Swirsky, executive]

Thanks for the question. This is DJ. So part of the challenge in answering that is we've got 7 weeks left in the year, and we don't want to start providing guidance for 2024, talking about how we see that year starting off. But what we can say is that we've taken a very conservative view on PA sales just because we wanted to make sure that we would be comfortably providing this revised guidance and meet it and possibly exceed it.

So we're very close to our customers. We've got a good sense that we've got a good number here for you. And a big part of that is PA. And so if you look at the breakdown of why we're confident with the revised guidance, we have very good visibility into the lease revenue. We've got 7 weeks left in the year to execute against a good number of opportunities, of which only a fraction would need to close in order for us to be comfortable with our number.

And of course, on the PA side, as we mentioned on the October call, we've really brought that down. We haven't factored into any recovery. We haven't factored in any of the seasonality that we've seen where you do get some purchases later in the year. We're just basically going off the daily run rate that we saw in Q3, which was depressed, and that gives us some comfort. But to fully answer your question, I think we [indiscernible] start to get to delve into what happens 7 weeks from now and inturn 2024. We're just not in a position to provide really too much information there.

[Operator]

Thank you I'm showing no further questions. I'll now hand the call back over to Douglas Doerfler for any closing remarks.

[Douglas Doerfler, executive]

Thank you, Justin, and thanks, everyone, for joining us today and your questions. We look forward to providing an update on the fourth quarter call. So thank you all very much. Have a great Thanksgiving. Thank you. .

[Operator]

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for participating. This concludes today's program. You may now disconnect.