H&E Equipment Services Inc

NASDAQ:HEES

Earnings Call Analysis

Stellar Earnings and Strategy Propel H&E Forward

H&E Equipment Services boasted robust Q3 financials, showing a 23.6% rise in total revenues and a 24.5% increase in equipment rental revenues year-over-year. Adjusted EBITDA soared by 36.2%, hitting a 47.2% margin. They resumed traditional fleet management, leading to a 2.5x jump in used equipment sales versus Q3 2022. The fleet size expanded by 27.6% to $2.7 billion, supporting 20% growth in branch count. Rental revenue improved by 25%, but rental gross margins dipped slightly to 53.3%. Looking forward, non-residential construction trends indicate a beaming future into 2024. They shifted the 2023 fleet investment estimate to $650-700 million, from $600-650 million, demonstrating confidence in continued elevated demand and fleet utility. H&E's strategic growth, including branch expansion and a youthful fleet averaging 41.1 months, underscores its impressive execution and sets a solid foundation for the upcoming year.

Record Financial Performance and Fleet Growth Position Company for Success

The company's third quarter marked a continuation of remarkable results, showcasing record-setting financial figures across several key metrics. Total revenues soared by 23.6% and equipment rental revenues grew by an impressive 24.5% compared to the previous year. Adjusted EBITDA also rose significantly by 36.2%, resulting in an adjusted EBITDA margin ascent to 47.2%. The successful quarter was further highlighted by a pronounced expansion of the company's operational fleet size, which experienced a 27.6% year-over-year growth, reaching a value of over $2.7 billion. This fleet expansion corresponded with the strategic opening of new branches, which saw a 20% growth from the third quarter of the previous year.

Rental Segment Performance and Industry Fundamentals

The third quarter demonstrated robust performance in the rental segment, with revenues advancing by 25% from the same period last year, although rental gross margins dipped slightly to 53.3% from 55.6%. This can be partially attributed to effects from a recent acquisition. Additionally, rental rates improved by 4.9% year-over-year, indicating a competitive pricing environment. Physical utilization rates moderated to 70% in the face of expanded fleet availability and strategic growth measures, impacting dollar utilization, which saw a modest drop to 41.5% compared to 42.7% the previous year, despite a sequential improvement of 90 basis points.

Investing in Fleet Quality and Capital Expenditure Strategy

Capital expenditures towards the rental fleet were significant in the third quarter, totaling $220.1 million, with a net value of $167.7 million when considering noncash transfers from inventory. Operating cash flow also saw a positive increase to $141.6 million. Despite the capital outlays, the fleet's average age improved to 41.1 months, underscoring a commitment to maintaining a competitive edge through fleet quality. The average dollar utilization was reported at 41.5%, reflecting the balance between fleet expansion and utilization rates.

Strong Balance Sheet and Continued Dividend Payout

Financial fortitude is evidenced by strong balance sheet metrics, with net debt at approximately $1.4 billion and a modest net leverage ratio decrease to 2.1x from 2.2x at the previous year-end. Notably, excess availability was substantial at $1.8 billion, eliminating covenant concerns. The company maintained its shareholder-friendly stance, distributing a regular quarterly dividend of $0.275 per share, with intentions to persist with future payments.

Bright Outlook and Growth Trajectory for the Equipment Rental Industry

The outlook for the equipment rental industry is depicted as optimistic, stimulated by a resilient nonresidential construction sector and a remarkable surge in mega projects within the company's operational realm, collectively valued at around $287 billion for the year. An additional $580 billion worth of projects is slated to begin in the coming years, of which the company expects to have a significant share, further bolstering revenue and utilization expectations. This optimistic landscape aligns with the company's growth and expansion pursuits, highlighted by adding a considerable number of branches to its network and nearly 50% growth in fleet size over a two-year period. The company's proactive approach anticipates leveraging strong operating cash flow and liquidity to support ongoing expansion, operating within a prudent leverage range.

Earnings Call Transcript 2023-Q3

[Operator]

Good morning and welcome to the H&E Equipment Services' Third Quarter 2023 Earnings Conference Call. Today's call is being recorded.At this time I would like to turn the conference over to Mr. Jeff Chastain, Vice President of Investor Relations. Please go ahead, sir.

[Jeff Chastain, executive]

Good morning and welcome. Thank you for your participation and ongoing interest in H&E. Earlier today we issued a press release providing a review of our financial performance for the third quarter of 2023. The release can be found along with all supporting statements and schedules on the H&E website, www.he-equipment.com. A slide presentation will accompany today's discussion and can be found on our website under the Investor Relations tab, in Events and Presentations.Joining me today, as you'll see on Slide 2, are Brad Barber, Chief Executive Officer; John Engquist, President and Chief Operating Officer; and Leslie Magee, Chief Financial Officer and Corporate Secretary.Brad will begin this morning's discussion, but before I turn the call over to him, I'll ask you to proceed to Slide 3 as I remind you that today's call contains forward-looking statements within the meaning of the federal securities laws. Statements about our beliefs and expectations and statements containing words such as may, could, believe, expect, anticipate and other expressions constitute forward-looking statements. Forward-looking statements involve known and unknown risks and uncertainties which could cause actual results to differ materially from those contained in any forward-looking statement. A summary of these uncertainties is included in the safe harbor statement contained in the company's slide presentation for today's call and includes the risks described in the risk factors in the company's annual report on Form 10-K and other periodic reports.Investors -- potential investors and other listeners are urged to consider these factors carefully in evaluating the forward-looking statements and are cautioned not to place undue reliance on such forward-looking statements. The company does not undertake to publicly update or revise any forward-looking statements after the date of this conference call. Also we are referencing non-GAAP financial measures during today's call. You will find the required supplemental disclosure for these measures, including the most directly comparable GAAP measure and an associated reconciliation as supporting schedules to our press release and in the appendix to today's presentation materials.I will now turn the call over to Brad Barber, Chief Executive Officer of H&E Equipment Services.

[Bradley W. Barber, executive]

Thank you, Jeff. Good morning, and welcome to our third quarter 2023 financial review. We appreciate your participation on today's call.Please proceed to Slide 4. Our financial performance in the third quarter continued a series of impressive results with record levels achieved across numerous metrics. I'll begin this morning covering our progress on key financial measures, followed by a more detailed review of our rental performance. I'll follow with my current thoughts on the equipment rental industry and how sturdy industry fundamentals and the emergence of certain compelling dynamics bode well for future demand. As a final point, I'll review our progress towards our growth initiatives and how our focused execution has positioned us to meet or exceed our strategic targets for 2023.Slide 6, please. Our third quarter financial performance was supported by resilient industry fundamentals, including healthy physical fleet utilization and continued rental rate appreciation. The contribution from these factors was magnified by the steady growth of our operations as demonstrated by a significant increase in fleet size and branch expansion. Together, these attributes laid a foundation for another quarter of outstanding financial performance, as noted in our key financial metrics. Similar to previous quarters, most of these key financial metrics displayed strong year-over-year improvement. For example, total revenues and total equipment rental revenues improved 23.6% and 24.5%, respectively, compared to the year ago results, while adjusted EBITDA improved 36.2% over the same period of comparison.Our adjusted EBITDA margin in the quarter rose to 47.2%. Each of these 4 metrics mentioned established a new record level of performance in the quarter. Total revenues were supplemented by used equipment sales, which increased more than 2.5x in the quarter compared to the third quarter of 2022. The increase was due to our resuming typical fleet management practices, which were disrupted in 2022 by equipment shortages leading to extremely tight equipment availability.With the challenges slowly unwinding in 2023, we have returned to our traditional approach to the fundamental management of our rental fleet, which includes the sale of our older assets. It is worth noting that in the third quarter, we sold units with an average age of 75 months compared to 63 months in the year ago quarter.Our used equipment sales in the quarter realized margins of 58.5% or 480 basis points higher than the year ago period. Also strong execution of strategic growth objectives once again played a significant role in our financial achievement within the quarter. Our fleet size, as measured by original equipment cost or OEC, grew 27.6% compared to the year ago quarter to just over $2.7 billion. A portion of this fleet growth was used to supply equipment to our new branch additions as we continued our accelerated branch expansion program. Since the third quarter of 2022, we added 14 new locations and 8 additional locations through acquisition, representing 20% growth. We expect to see further expansion of our new locations in the fourth quarter.I'll have more to say about the success of our growth strategy in a moment, but first, I'd like to review our rental performance in greater detail. On to Slide 7, please. Rental revenue in the third quarter improved 25% compared to the year ago quarter. Rental gross margins were 53.3% compared to 55.6% over the same period of comparison. When compared to the second quarter of 2023, rental gross margins improved 150 basis points.As I have noted before, the decline in our year-over-year rental gross margin reflected in part the impact of purchase price accounting following the October 2022 acquisition of One Source. Our robust nonresidential construction environment continued to support rental rate and fleet utilization in the third quarter. Rental rates improved 4.9% compared to the third quarter of 2022, while increasing 1.2% on a sequential quarterly basis. Through September 30, 2023, rental rates were 7% better than the same period in 2022. We believe these pricing results remain among the best in the industry.Physical utilization in the third quarter was 70% compared to 73.3% in the third quarter of 2022 when the constrained supply of equipment pushed utilization in the quarter to uncommon levels for the industry. Finally, dollar utilization in the third quarter of 41.5% compared to 42.7% in the prior year quarter with the contribution from higher rental rates offset by lower utilization and a modest burden from our 2023 growth initiatives. However, the measure improved 90 basis points in a sequential basis.I now want to move my discussion to an industry outlook and elaborate on some emerging developments that we believe will sustain industry demand and facilitate a strong business environment in 2024. Slide 8, please. Nonresidential construction remains resilient with emerging project opportunities leading to expansion of backlogs and project visibility well into 2024. Recent data from the U.S. Census Bureau continues to demonstrate healthy year-over-year construction starts and spending trends. Mega projects, which we define as possessing construction values of $500 million and greater, are expected to provide meaningful support for U.S. construction activity.These projects, which include a variety of industrial and manufacturing construction opportunities continue to populate our geographic footprint and are characterized by substantial equipment requirements and lengthy project completion schedules. A review of data on mega projects provided by Dodge Construction Network in fact indicated projects with collective constructed values of approximately $287 billion has started in 2023 with more than 75% of that project value within our coverage area.More importantly, and as it relates to future project visibility, the data revealed an estimated $580 billion of project value was being bid for project starts in 2023 and 2024, with an estimated 85% of these projects residing in our coverage area. Although this data is subject to change, it clearly implies the massive project opportunity that exists within our area of operations.Additionally, the value proposition of rental compared with equipment ownership is expected to lead to further growth in rental penetration. The measure has increased each of the last 2 years following the post-COVID setback in 2020, is likely to experience further growth in 2023. These positive factors are expected to reinforce industry fundamentals and should allow for a continuation of modest rental rate improvement and solid physical utilization levels as we maintain our focus on branch expansion and fleet growth into 2024.Finally, and before I turn the call over to Leslie for her review of the third quarter results, I want to close with an update on our fleet growth and branch expansion objectives. Slide 9, please. During the third quarter, we added greater branch density in the Mid-Atlantic, Southeast, Gulf Coast and Midwest regions following the addition of 5 new locations in the quarter and a sixth in October. With 12 branch additions through October 2023, we are comfortable within our stated range of 12 to 15 new locations for the year and we anticipate more openings during the fourth quarter. H&E is now operating 132 branches in 30 states, including the addition of no fewer than 10 branches in each of the last 3 years.Also our gross fleet expenditure in the third quarter contributed to a record investment through the first 9 months of 2023 of $595.2 million, resulting in a fleet size as measured by original equipment cost in excess of $2.7 billion. In view of our gross expenditures at the close of the third quarter, we're adjusting our expected range for 2023 gross fleet investment for the second time in consecutive quarters as customer demand remains elevated and availability of highly utilized equipment continues to improve. Our new growth expenditure range is $650 million to $700 million compared to a previously revised range of $600 million to $650 million.In closing, our strong financial performance and numerous strategic accomplishments in 2023 reinforce our competitive position in the equipment rental industry and places H&E on stable footing for future achievements. Of note, significant branch expansion has led to greater density throughout our geography while exposing the company to more customers and projects possessing increased business opportunities. Also the branch growth is supported by our disciplined approach to fleet management, including a record investment in 2023 of more than $595 million to-date. Our fleet age of 41.1 months remains among the youngest in the industry.We met or exceeded our stated 2023 strategic objectives with the quarter to spare, which is further evidence of our operational capabilities and exceptional execution. As we turn our attention to 2024, we will again focus on strategic initiatives that continue to demonstrate our commitment to disciplined growth and expansion that leads to further achievements in value creation.With this, I'd ask you to proceed to Slide 10 and I'm going to turn the call over to Leslie, who will provide a review of our third quarter financial performance. Leslie?

[Leslie Magee, executive]

Thank you, Brad. Good morning, and welcome, everyone. Before I begin, I want to remind you, as stated in our press release, third quarter results include a pretax noncash goodwill impairment charge of $5.7 million, which was identified in connection with an interim goodwill impairment test and relates to our parts business segment. This segment experienced a decline in volume and actual revenue and earnings compared to our planned revenue and earnings corresponding to our most recent quantitative goodwill impairment analysis. These declines followed our business dispositions and strategic shift to our rental focus. When required, certain financial measures from the third quarter will be expressed as reported and some as adjusted for the impact of the impairment charge.Let's continue beginning with Slide 11 and a review of third quarter revenues, gross profit and profit margins. Total revenues in the third quarter reached $400.7 million, an improvement of $76.4 million or 23.6% compared to the third quarter of 2022. The increase was primarily due to higher revenues in our rental and used equipment sales business segment. Rental revenues increased 25% to $280.3 million compared to $224.1 million in the year ago quarter. As Brad noted earlier, strong fleet growth and further rental rate appreciation in the quarter were significant catalysts leading to the strong results. Our rental fleet as measured by OEC grew $589.9 million or 27.6% to just over $2.7 billion compared to the year ago quarter, while rental rates were up 4.9% on a year-over-year comparison and 1.2% sequentially.The used equipment sales in the third quarter were $52.7 million compared to $20.3 million in the third quarter of 2022. As equipment supply constraints in the year ago quarter continued to moderate in 2023, we captured attractive opportunities in the used equipment market by executing our fleet management objectives. New equipment sales of $12.6 million declined 46.2% in the quarter compared to $23.5 million in the third quarter of 2022. This decline reflects the impact of our December 2022 divestiture of the Komatsu earthmoving distribution business, which completed our exit from distribution activities.Gross profit in the third quarter grew to $188.4 million, up $36.5 million compared to the year ago quarter. The 24% improvement resulted in gross profit margin in the quarter of 47% compared to 46.8% over the same period of comparison. The margin increase was due primarily to favorable revenue mix and higher margins on used equipment sales, partially offset by lower rental margins, which were impeded by purchase accounting related to the One Source fleet acquired in October 2022.Total equipment rental margins were 47.4% in the third quarter compared to 50.5% in the year ago quarter, while rental margins finished the third quarter at 53.3% compared to 55.6%. The purchase accounting impact on our margins relates to a higher depreciation expense resulting from the fair value markup of the fleet acquired from One Source. Comparing margins for our business segments to the year ago quarter, used equipment margins increased to 58.5% compared to 53.7%. New equipment sales margins were 13.2% compared to 13.8%. Parts sales margins were 27.5% compared to 29%. And lastly, service margins were 59.3% compared to 63.2%.Slide 12, please. Income from operations in the third quarter totaled $79.2 million or $84.9 million, excluding the previously noted pretax noncash impairment charge of $5.7 million. The result compared to $64 million in the third quarter of 2022. The margin on operating income was 19.8% or 21.2%, excluding the impact of the goodwill impairment charge and compared to 19.7% in the year ago quarter. A favorable revenue mix, higher gross margins on used equipment sales and lower SG&A as a percent of revenues contributed to the improved margin. These factors were partially offset by lower rental margins resulting from the One Source acquisition.Proceed to Slide 13, please. Net income from continuing operations in the third quarter totaled $48.9 million or $53 million adjusted for the goodwill impairment. The adjusted measure was 38.1% better than $38.4 million in the year ago quarter. Diluted net income per share in the third quarter was $1.35 per share or $1.46 per share adjusted for the impairment charge and compared to diluted net income per share of $1.05 in the third quarter of 2022. Our effective income tax rate in the third quarter was 26.1% or 26.2% when adjusted for the goodwill impairment charge and compared to 25.2% for the same quarter in 2022.Proceed to Slide 14. Adjusted EBITDA in the third quarter improved to a record $189.1 million and compared to $138.9 million in the year ago quarter, representing an improvement of 36.2% compared to a year-over-year increase in revenues of 23.6%. Adjusted EBITDA margin reached 47.2% in the third quarter or 440 basis points better than the third quarter of 2022. The higher margin was primarily due to improved revenue mix, higher gross margins on used equipment sales and lower SG&A as a percentage of revenues.Next, Slide 15, please. SG&A expense in the third quarter increased $15.8 million or 17.9% to $104.2 million compared to SG&A of $88.4 million in the year ago quarter. The increase was due to employee salaries, wages and variable compensation as well as increased head count. Also higher depreciation expense, facility expenses and professional fees contributed to the increase in the quarter. Expressed as a percentage of revenues, SG&A expenses in the third quarter were 26%, down from 27.3% in the prior year quarter. The increase in SG&A expenses in the quarter included an estimated $7.7 million of expenses attributable to 21 branches opened or acquired since the close of the prior year quarter.Slide 16, please. Gross rental fleet capital expenditures in the third quarter, inclusive of noncash transfers from inventory, totaled $220.1 million. Net rental fleet capital expenditures were $167.7 million. Gross PP&E capital expenditures in the quarter were $22 million or $21 million net of sales of PP&E. Net cash provided by operating activities totaled $141.6 million in the third quarter compared to $107 million in the third quarter of 2022. Free cash flow used in the quarter was $41.5 million compared to free cash flow used of $47.1 million over the same period of comparison. At the conclusion of the third quarter, our rental fleet remained among the youngest in the industry with an average age of 41.1 months. The measure improved from an average age of 42.5 months in the second quarter of 2023 and 43.6 months at December 31, 2022.Slide 17, please. Based on original equipment cost on September 30, 2023, our rental fleet size was modestly above $2.7 billion, representing year-over-year growth of $589.9 million or an increase of 27.6%. Average dollar utilization in the third quarter of 2023 was 41.5% compared to 42.7% in the prior year quarter and 40.6% in the second quarter of 2023. Brad explained earlier how dollar utilization has been moderately impeded by our exceptional fleet growth and branch expansion over the past year, including 13 warm starts and 8 acquired locations.Slide 18, please. Our balance sheet metrics on September 30, 2023, remained strong, including net debt of approximately $1.4 billion and a net leverage measure of 2.1x. The metrics compared to net debt of $1.2 billion and net leverage of 2.2x on December 31, 2022. We have no maturities before 2028 on our $1.25 billion of senior unsecured notes.Slide 19, please. Our liquidity position on September 30, 2023, totaled $604.1 million, while excess availability under the ABL facility was approximately $1.8 billion, up from $1.5 billion on December 31, 2022. Our minimum availability as defined by the ABL agreement remains $75 million. Note that excess availability is the measurement used to determine whether our springing fixed charge is applicable. With excess availability of $1.8 billion, we continue to have no covenant concerns. And finally, we paid our regular quarterly dividend of $0.275 per share of common stock in the third quarter of 2023. While dividends are subject to Board approval, it is our intent to continue to pay the dividend.Slide 20, please. In closing, our impressive quarterly financial achievements continued in the third quarter. Of note, total rental equipment revenues were up 24.5%, representing the ninth consecutive quarter of 20% or greater revenue growth in our rental operations when compared to the year ago results. Also new records were once again established in the quarter across several important financial measures, including gross profit, adjusted EBITDA and adjusted net income. These financial achievements have largely followed our transition to a pure rental focus and a corresponding exit strategy from distribution activities and has been supplemented by a focus on growth and expansion.Since we began to execute our strategic transition during the second quarter of 2021, we have grown our branch network nearly 25% to 132 branches currently compared to 106 at the close of the second quarter in 2021, while broadening our U.S. coverage to 30 states, up from 23 over the same period.In addition, our fleet size as measured by OEC has grown nearly 50% over the same period. Our strategic decisions and growth objectives have positioned H&E as one of the most successful companies in the equipment rental industry. With the outlook for our industry remaining bright, we will maintain our focus on profitable growth and expansion opportunities. We possess ample resources to pursue additional growth through strong net cash provided by operating activities and robust liquidity, while our net debt leverage remains at the low end of our stated range of 2 to 3x. Our strong financial progression remains a highlight of our performance in 2023 and we look forward to updating you on future developments.We are now ready to begin the Q&A period. Operator, would you please provide instructions to our call participants?

[Operator]

Yes, thank you. [Operator Instructions] And today's first question comes from Steven Ramsey with Thompson Research Group.

[Brian Biros, analyst]

This is actually Brian Biros on for Steven. First one on CapEx. The raising CapEx even on lower time utilization and dollar utilization as you enter the slower season, [indiscernible] have told us that there's been better fleet delivery from OEMs. Can you just talk again to the logic behind this move and how much of it is the timing of increased deliveries? How much is intentional stocking up into '24? And did you defer in deliveries?

[Bradley W. Barber, executive]

Sure. Thank you for the question. The reason it's simple that the assets that we plan to bring in, in Q4 that comprise the raise in our CapEx guidance are very highly utilized. Many of these assets are 75% to 80 plus percent utilized. So that's the reason. It's not all products we're bringing in. This year, unlike last year, is starting to be more of a normal cadence. Last year, we ran an unsustainable and very unusual -- very unusually high physical utilizations. So I think it's worth noting and remembering since we started rate improvements in 2021, I believe we're up something north of 18%. 70% utilization is a healthy level, certainly something we would like to further eclipse. But the capital we're bringing in, in the fourth quarter is going to be basically replacement capital and it's only going to be capital deployed for extremely high physical -- physically utilized assets that we continue to get rate improvement on.

[Brian Biros, analyst]

Helpful. And a follow-up, I guess, was on the overall market. You talked about broad-based strength. Some commercial is slowing that we're hearing too. ABI is down, higher rates are likely to pressure some non-res construction activity here. So if some normal types of non-res construction slows, do you think that's enough to suppress volumes or rates or utilization? Clearly, it's a matter of degree of movement, but how are you seeing the puts and takes at this point?

[Bradley W. Barber, executive]

Well, I think there are several things to consider. First, the discipline of the industry. We have been -- and we will -- I believe we'll continue to work in a very disciplined industry as far as our competitors go. We spoke about and tried to get some real transparency to what we see with mega projects. I think we're talking between '23 and '24, something in the neighborhood of $850 billion. We said that of the projects that have bid so far, 75% of those are within our trade territory. And when we define a trade territory, we're talking about locations that can and will or, in fact, actively covering those projects.More importantly, the larger balance is still yet to come and our estimate is approximately 85% of that within our -- is within our trade territory. I'll take it a step further and say that we continue to see no postponements or cancellations of our more traditional project work that exists within our territory. So a lot of times, you need to go to -- people should really roll through the data in a little bit more detail. If you were going to only be operating in 30 states, I think we can make an argument, our 30 are as good as they come. So it's where the majority of this mega project money, stimulus money is being spent. We happen to be there. We're adding density and we feel very good about what's in front of us going into 2024.

[Operator]

And the next question comes from Seth Weber with Wells Fargo Securities.

[Seth Weber, analyst]

Brad, I guess, H&E and some of the peers have been selling more old fleet for the last couple of quarters. I kind of just wanted to get your view on just sort of supply-demand balance going forward. Do you feel like that we're in a position here where we can start talking about fleet utilization to be up next year or maybe flat, but -- or could dollar utilization be up? Just -- not looking for specific guidance numbers, but just directionally, how you're thinking about kind of supply-demand across the industry?

[Bradley W. Barber, executive]

Yes. I do believe things are coming back into more of a normal balance and operating at more of a normal cadence. We're in the middle of our forecasting for 2024. But let me tell you a couple of things. Number one, we are focused on and feel very bullish about our opportunity to continue to stamp out 15-ish locations a year. So we're going to stick with our guidance of 10 to 15 locations and fully plan to open 15-ish locations again in 2024, highly successful with that strategy. We're going to continue to have some level of same-store growth.That being said, and maybe more specific to your question, we believe -- we know we have operational capabilities of running much higher physical utilization than we're currently running at today. And we plan to flex those capabilities next year. And so as we -- that will be part of our consideration as we look at the growth. So plan on 15-ish, 10 to 15 locations next year. We'll be better and more clearly communicate once we're done with the plan, but we're going to have same-store growth. And we believe that -- and I will tell you our internal focus is to improve our business utilization in 2024 over what we're going to achieve in 2023. So I hope that's helpful to you.

[Seth Weber, analyst]

Yes, super helpful. And then just on these mega projects, maybe if you could help frame it. Is H&E typically the lead -- would H&E typically be a lead provider on these projects? Would you be a partner with some of the other rental companies? Maybe just sort of frame up how some of these contracts get let and how you're -- just the competitive environment within your footprint?

[Bradley W. Barber, executive]

Sure. We're both. We're on a large majority of the projects that have been let within our -- that are active within our footprint. I think that's the most important thing to note. There are more than just a few that we're the lead on. We have the majority and we'll have the majority of the products. But there are also many more that we have a secondary or tertiary position on, but that still can mean hundreds of machines. And so we participate in all elements.Obviously, we have considerations to make. We're going to remain disciplined. We're focused on rate, certainly focused on returns. And these large projects that consume, in some cases, thousands of machines depending on the particular project and certainly for a much longer than average duration require some level of discounting and you -- we look more at yield. But you can see with our 1.2% sequential gain that we continue to push forward, that we're continuing to get rates within the mix of what's going on at H&E.We will lead on more mega projects going forward, and we will be in the #2 and #3 position on others. And if there's a dynamic that does not favor our overall objectives for utilization rate and yield, then we certainly won't participate on some projects, but we're very selective and we're in good position with the projects that are within our footprint.

[Operator]

And the next question comes from Stanley Elliott with Stifel.

[Stanley Elliott, analyst]

Hey Brad, first off, just for a point of clarification, in addition to the commentary about utilization. I thought I heard you say modest rate improvement as well. Was that for the fourth quarter or were you talking more specifically about '24?

[Bradley W. Barber, executive]

Well, I think it's -- I think '24 is hard to say. I can tell you there's no thought of us abandoning and our focus on rate improvement. John, do you want to add some color for what we've been looking for?

[John Engquist, executive]

I will. Stanley, as Brad stated, on these large mega jobs, pricing is more aggressive. These projects are materializing as we speak. I mean, we have fleet on these jobs. We have more fleet that will be deployed in the fourth quarter. And then next year, we have a considerable amount of these projects that are going to break ground. So as we put more fleet on these jobs, obviously at lower more aggressive pricing, there is going to be an impact to our overall rates.What that looks like, it's difficult to say at this point. What I can tell you is for Q4, we do expect incremental rate improvement. And looking to next year, we do expect demand to remain healthy. So our opportunity for rate improvement is going to be there. I think the question for us and what we need to do some more digging on is how are these large jobs going to impact rates as these projects continue to ramp up.

[Bradley W. Barber, executive]

Stanley, let me add, and I fully support everything John just said, that's spot on for our collective view. We're moving into more of a normal trajectory with utilization. Hypothetically, in Q1, if we were to suffer an extreme winter situation and smaller projects are delayed or postponed due to weather and we believe these large mega projects will continue to go at a more steady pace, we could see a situation where we see rates flatten out. I want to be clear. That is not our prediction. That's not our goal internally. That's not what we're managing to. It's -- we would simply be talking about a mix issue. But for now we're planning on incremental rental rate improvement going forward.

[Stanley Elliott, analyst]

And with concerns around ABI numbers and everything else, what are you guys watching to say maybe we should pivot or pause from some of the growth plans that we've -- you've got on the table. I mean so far, the growth plans have turned out quite nicely. But just curious kind of how you're thinking about that as kind of the -- like the longer-term view?

[Bradley W. Barber, executive]

Sure. Well, as Leslie stated in her prepared comments, we just concluded our ninth quarter of greater than 20% growth. We did one tuck-in acquisition that's having an anniversary this month with One Source last year. We're certainly not abandoning future tuck-in acquisition opportunity. We never overreact to the ABI. And I don't want to say we don't pay attention. We certainly do, but we look more at Dodge Construction put in place dollars. We certainly consider the feedback from the field and what we see going on.So I gave Seth some feedback basically saying we are very focused on improving our physical utilization incrementally next year over what we will achieve in '23. I want to tell you, I'm nothing but very proud of our team's accomplishment in '23 to stamp out this number of locations on our small [ manipulus ] to start from while we raise rates and expand our margins. I believe it's quite impressive and shows what they're capable of.So we're not going to abandon that healthy growth levels. But bear in mind, as we open 12 to 15 locations next year, these are premium marketplace. We're not going to the only place we can find a facility. We're going where the market is most robust and likely to be for the longest period of time. And so at our current scale, this is absolutely to our advantage, while we're in this 12 to 15 locations a year. But if you were to see us slow our fleet growth a little bit next year on a same-store basis to ensure that we achieve physical utilization improvement, that wouldn't be surprising.

[Stanley Elliott, analyst]

And that's kind of bridging to my last question. You've ramped capital spend here pretty meaningfully in the past several years. Some of your peers are generating free cash through the cycle. I feel like you guys have enough scale now with all the growth and the locations that you have in the marketplace. Maybe share some thoughts with investors on kind of at what point do you think you guys can start generating free cash flow through the cycle absent kind of these larger fleet purchases that you've been bringing in?

[Bradley W. Barber, executive]

Yes. Very good question. Obviously, we could generate some free cash right now today if we so elected. We have decided it's best for the valuation of the company, fits within our operational capabilities. Clearly, it is not stressing our balance sheet in the least as our leverage continue to go down year-over-year while we're growing and continuing to pay the dividend. So for the foreseeable future, as we grow, we could continue to be slightly free cash flow negative. But if we want to change that dynamic, it's easy, we just grow at a little bit slower pace and we generate cash.Maybe to the broader context of your question, I think we're within 2 to 3 years at the type of growth that we have been at, where we will be at a balance where we will more consistently and naturally can produce free cash flow. So it's something we look at. It's something we've talked about internally. I don't want to set an expectation of free cash flow on an annual basis going forward. But I will say this, we could clearly achieve that if that was a primary objective. But for today, we're going to grow while we lower our leverage and move into these hot markets that are going to pay dividends for decades to come.

[Operator]

And the next question comes from Steven Fisher with UBS.

[Steven Fisher, analyst]

I just want to try and calibrate the profit from used equipment sales going forward. And as we think about maybe that normalizing, is there any kind of like historical periods you'd look back to kind of going back to maybe pre-pandemic levels, but then you have to adjust for your -- kind of your fleet size and the normalized margin? Just how do we think about that kind of normalizing of used equipment profit generation?

[John Engquist, executive]

Steven, I think as we've said before, we've had this question before. And our expectation is to maintain that 50-plus percent gross margin on used sales. As far as any historical period to compare to, that's a little bit more challenging considering that we were heavy in the distribution business years ago. With the exit from distribution and really more predictable fleet sales as we move forward, we're going to focus on selling off the back end of our fleet. As Leslie and Brad discussed in their prepared comments, the age of the fleet assets that we sold in the third quarter was 72 months -- 75 months, excuse me. When you go back and compare that to prior periods, you would -- there's really nothing great to compare that to. So I think as we look forward, 50-plus percent is going to be our bogey, and that's what our expectation is going to be moving forward.

[Bradley W. Barber, executive]

Yes. Look, if we see a softening in the used equipment markets, with our balance sheet, with the age of our fleet, we can just slow our fleet sale. We do not have -- we are not going to give inventory way and as John outlined, we're just a different business today being a pure rental model as opposed to also chasing market share for that downstream parts and service business, which was part of the distribution. So we're going to go with 50% right now. And if we see a need to change that, then we certainly will make sure we advise everyone.

[Steven Fisher, analyst]

Got it. And then on the -- just a follow-up on the competitive environment question. To what extent do you see OEM dealer rental fleets ramping up? And what impact are they having on the market?

[Bradley W. Barber, executive]

I'm not seeing or hearing anything measurable about any OEM dealer rental fleet. The dealer rental fleets are no more significant today than they have been in any prior period. So I don't see any change there whatsoever actually.

[Steven Fisher, analyst]

Okay. And then just last, related to the mega projects, how should we think about the mix of fleet that they require? Do you see them as being balanced between aerials and earthmoving or is there any particular weighting shift that you see in your fleet purchasing?

[Bradley W. Barber, executive]

Yes. Nothing is going to change our purchasing. Actually, we don't disclose this, but as we look at it internally, the mix of products, when you collect -- when you aggregate a variety of mega projects is very similar to what we offer in the traditional construction process for smaller jobs. So we see no shift there whatsoever. We like our mix. It serves us well. We'll continue to work on it and refine it through our fleet management practices, but the mega projects will not change how we're investing in product tax.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] And the next question comes from Alex Rygiel with B. Riley.

[Alexander Rygiel, analyst]

Is there any specific end market or -- as it relates to mega projects that is more advantageous to you all?

[Bradley W. Barber, executive]

Not particularly. I mean obviously, when we look through our footprint, there are some areas that inherently have incrementally more -- incremental more opportunity with the number of these mega projects that we're defining as $500 million or greater. But maybe state it better. There aren't any areas that are broadly excluded from those types of opportunities. We're seeing it broad-based.

[Alexander Rygiel, analyst]

And then can you talk a little bit about capital allocation towards purchasing new rental equipment versus maybe a buyback or a dividend?

[Bradley W. Barber, executive]

Well, we have shown and let me reaffirm, we're committed to the dividend as we stated in our remarks, it requires Board approval on a quarterly basis, but we're dedicated to that dividend with our leverage and available in our liquidity position with our ABL, as Leslie pointed out. We challenge ourselves just on improving returns and improving mix as to improve the overall value and EBITDA generation for our shareholders.As it pertains to the potential stock buyback, I mean, we consider everything on behalf of capital allocation periodically and work with our Board closely on that. But for now I can report to you that everyone should expect more of the same. We're going to pay our dividend. We're going to invest where we can continue to improve returns on rental assets and grow these 12 to 15 locations a year while we have same-store growth. And we will always take into consideration other aspects that could become available to us.

[Operator]

And the next question is a follow-up from Seth Weber with Wells Fargo Securities.

[Seth Weber, analyst]

I just wanted to go back to the mega project pricing competition discussion. In a more challenging rate environment, can you just talk to like would margins be affected by that or do you -- or are the margins -- or does it kind of wash out on the margin line because there's less -- because you have more surety of demand, the equipment is sitting on site, there's less pickup, drop-offs, that kind of thing. I'm just trying to think through how -- I understand the rate -- potential rate impact, but is there a potential margin impact as well or does that kind of get washed out?

[Bradley W. Barber, executive]

No, it gets washed out. We are not planning on participating in any type of work that we think is going to deteriorate our margins. In fact, I will say that we think we have some incremental opportunities to improve rental margins and improve dollar utilization. While we include this, it's very much a yield conversation is that the amount of products, the mix of products, the discount that's required in the lesser term. So no, we do not anticipate degradation to our margins due to participation on larger projects. That yield is going to be positive.

[Operator]

And this concludes the question-and-answer session. I would like to turn the call to Jeff Chastain for any closing comments.

[Jeff Chastain, executive]

Okay. Well, if there are no other questions, we'll go ahead and conclude today's call. We do appreciate everyone taking the time to join us today and for your continued interest in H&E. We look forward to speaking with you again. Good day, everyone.

[Operator]

Thank you. The conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.