El En SpA

MIL:ELN

Earnings Call Analysis

Mixed Performance and Moderate Optimism

Amid a challenging economic landscape marked by currency fluctuations and competition, particularly in the Chinese market, the company's medical sector surged ahead with a 6.4% increase, contrasting the industrial sector's 4.1% reduction in revenues. Consolidated revenues slightly rose to EUR 493 million (a 1.8% year-over-year increase), despite a 2% currency headwind which led to a EUR 9 million reduction. Operating expenses climbed, EBITDA decreased by 8.4%, and EBIT shrank by 10.6%, with margins diminishing in both measures. The net financial position weakened from EUR 75 million to EUR 32.1 million within the year; however, cash flow improved significantly in Q3. For the full year of 2023, the company targets a modest revenue increase and an adjusted EBIT margin between 18.5% and 19%.

Economic Normalization and Minor Revenue Increase

The company has experienced slight revenue growth after the first nine months of 2023, surpassing the previous year, albeit with a delay in income from operations. A normalization phase post-pandemic has slowed the once-rapid revenue growth, particularly evident in the medical sector, where growth, while still present, has tapered from earlier forecasts. The company's overall financial results depict mixed performances across various market segments and regions.

Strategic Efforts and Product Expansion

To expand sales and gross margins, the company is striving to reduce the cost of goods sold and boost export sales across less competitive international markets, which promise higher margins. There's a concerted push towards launching a new product range: laser-cutting systems branded under HL, targeting the market's lower end with cost-effective solutions. Additionally, the medical sector anticipates rolling out new products in the latter half of 2023 and into 2024, including devices for hair removal and body shaping designed for the US market.

Improved Cash Flow and Financial Position

The company has witnessed significant improvements in cash generation during the third quarter, which has favorably influenced the net financial position by approximately EUR 22 million, elevating it to EUR 32 million. Investment in capital expenditures (CapEx) has been maintained lower than in prior years, aligning with the company's strategy, while a reduced investment density is anticipated for the second half of the year.

Segment Performance and Outlook

The medical sector outperformed with a 6% rise in revenues, led mainly by the surgical applications segment exhibiting near 30% growth. In contrast, the industrial sector faced a 4.1% decline, with the Chinese market's negative condition heavily influencing the group's performance in this sector. While sales in laser-cutting declined overall, certain segments like marking exhibited revenue growth. Looking forward, the company remains confident in its competitive position, with an objective to achieve slight growth in turnover and contain EBIT delay proportions comparable to the first nine months of the year.

Expenses and Operational Challenges

There has been an increase in operating expenses, with sales and marketing costs contributing significantly to this rise. Despite an increase in staff costs impacting sales, the company has managed outcomes positively. Notably, EBITDA and EBIT margins have decreased due to increased depreciation and accruals. The medical sector has remained resilient, whereas the challenge in the industrial sector, chiefly within China, persists.

Earnings Call Transcript 2023-Q3

[Bianca Fersini Mastelloni]

Go on, Andrea.

[Nicola Fiore, executive]

Let me read the usual disclaimer. Just a second. Okay, so, good afternoon and welcome to EL.En's third quarter, 2023 Financial Results Conference Call. Today's call will be recorded and so will be an opportunity for questions at the end of the conference call. With me on the call are Andrea Cangioli, which is EL.En Managing Director; and Enrico Romagnoli, EL.En's Chief Financial Officer and Investor Relator.Before we begin, please take note that these remark the management makes on the conference call about the future expectation, plans, and prospects are forward-looking statements. Certain statements in this call, including those addressing the company's beliefs, plans, objectives, estimates or expectation, possible future results or events are forward-looking statements. Forward-looking statements involve known or unknown risks, including general economic and business conditions and conditions in the industry the company operates and may be affected should the assumption turn out to be inaccurate. Consequently, no forward-looking statements can be guaranteed and actual future results, performance, or achievements may vary materially from those expressed or implied by such forward-looking statements. The company undertakes no obligation about the contents nor to update the forward-looking statements to reflect events or circumstances that may arise after the date hereof. If you need to ask questions, please put your questions on the chat of Bianca Fersini Mastelloni, and she will be pleased to introduce you following the booking order. But at this time, I want to turn out the call to Andrea Cangioli.Please go ahead, Andrea.

[Andrea Cangioli, executive]

Thank you, Nicola. Thank you, Bianca. Thank you, everybody, for joining us in this call after the release of our third quarter and 9-month financials report as of September 30, 2023. As Nicola said, with me on this call, Enrico Romagnoli, that will go in deep with the financials. After 9 months, our revenues are showing a small increase over the corresponding period of 2022, while income from operation is registering a delay when compared to last year's performance, a delay that on a consolidated basis widened in the third quarter, which highlighted an overall sales decrease with respect to the third quarter of 2022 and a corresponding decrease in EBIT.Consolidated financial results reflect a [ market with a ] variety of performances in our different market segments and market regions, which is worth mentioning in general terms before the details that Enrico will be providing to you in a short time. The medical sector registered an interesting growth on the previous year, benefited of increasing gross margins and notwithstanding the increase in sales and marketing expenses, improved its performance in terms of income from operations attributable to the sector as well. We are pleased with these results of the medical sector, about which I would like to make a couple of comments. The first is that they exceed our expectations today. The second is that, as we were expecting, the revenues growth rate is progressively slowing down throughout the year. The acquisition of new order remains good, but the share of period sales achieved on the basis of long-term planning decreased and demand on average is attributable to visibility in the order of magnitude of 60, 90 days as it was taking place in the period before the pandemic.The influence of the widespread uncertainty on the general economic environment did not contribute to the improvement of the specific condition of the group's end markets. I believe what fairly describes what we are experiencing on our marketing is a normalization phase that is taking place following the post-pandemic euphoria. Compared to the extraordinary 2022, also, the business segments that are better performing and slowing down their acceleration, in certain cases that are slowing down their pace as well.Shifting our attention to the industrial sector. [ In this space ], it is obviously more affected by the general economic challenges of these times. But let me dig a little bit deeper in the dynamics of the markets. The western portion of our sheet-metal cutting business is still registering a strong increase in sales and profits over 2022, though, the third quarter marked a slowdown. This was foreseeable and expected in the Italian portion of the business where the tax cuts on machinery investments known under the name of Industry 4.0 are extinguishing. The tax cut helped boost sales in the past. We are now in a rebound phase that will be soon absorbed. We are performing a strong effort in widening the sales opportunities on the international markets, and we are registering a notable success. We foresee to be able to partially [indiscernible] for the domestic sales decline with a sharp increase in international sales, it's probably out of reach in the next quarter to offset in full the effect.The Chinese portion of the business is still struggling to find a way out of the slump we are experiencing. The slowdown is evident in the market as a whole and in our performance as well. The increased competition in the sheet-metal cutting laser system market enforced a strong prices and margin pressure that more or less, at constant production volumes, deflated revenues and gross margins, driving the bottom line to a definite [ range ]. The action we put in place to prevent the business to set the fourth loss quarter in a row are mainly focused on the improvements of the purchasing and manufacturing efficiency in order to achieve the lower cost of goods sold levels needed to expand sales and gross margins. An intense effort is being put in place to boost export sales which land on less competitive markets and therefore bear higher margins. An effort which is seeing both units, Cutlite Penta and Penta Zhejiang, of our sheet-metal cutting business, targeting the international market with the common goal of being less dependent from their own domestic markets.In this path, I'd like to mention that last week and for the second time this year after Chicago's Fabtech in October, our sheet-metal laser cutting company successfully attended a trade fair. In this case it was EuroBLECH in Stuttgart exhibiting in 2 distinct stands the 100% Italian manufactured Cutlite Penta systems and the hybrid Italian-Chinese systems offered and [indiscernible] created HL brand. But what concerns the IPO plans that are involved in the laser-cutting division, notwithstanding the excellent results of Cutlite Penta, due to the losses in the Chinese entities, the financial results after the third quarter of 2023 were poor. This makes the possibility of their starting the listing process in the short term less concrete and increases the contingency that the private equity funds that invested in Penta Zhejiang with a view to the IPO may avail themselves of the right to exercise the withdrawal option provided in the event of failure to achieve the IPO objective.Within the other activities in the industrial sector, we are very pleased by the rapid revenue growth that Lasit is experiencing in the laser marking business. Also based on the expansion of its distribution footprint with its 4 sales subsidiaries. The first subsidiary to be launched in Poland is EBIT accretive in 2023 to date. The Spanish and German subsidiaries are still in the very first quarter of operation and are contributing to sales volume but are still loss-making on operations. The U.K. facility has just started its activities. A very positive line in the third quarter financial performance is that the group achieved a significant return to cash generation that led to the improvement of approximately EUR 22 million in the net financial position up to EUR 32 million compared to EUR 10.2 million at the beginning of the quarter. The details of the changes in net working capital highlight a decrease in trade receivables and an increase in inventory and trade payables. The change in downpayments received and given was still negative in the quarter for about EUR 3 million. The trend is in line with the expectation of improvement in this financial metric for the second half of 2023. CapEx was definitely lower compared to 2022, according to the planning, [ that does not provide ] for this 2023 capacity investment density and intensity of the last years.A few words on new products release pipeline which, as you know, is the cornerstone of our competitive strategy. For this time, I'll start with the industrial world. As I mentioned before, we are launching a new laser-cutting systems product range under the Italian brand HL, which for the western markets as well combines the Chinese cost effectiveness with selected Italian key components with the goal to approaching the bit lower-end of the market with an offer suitable to its needs and capabilities. For the medical market, the second half of 2023 and the year 2024 will see an increase in the release of new products that in the late 2022 and in the early 2023 had to slow down due to the contingent involvement of the R&D departments in the one-time projects, like the support to reengineer around missing components and the commitment to modify products and support documentation in compliance to the new MDR regulations.For the time being, I'd like to mention the release of the PRO line, 3 new products for hair removal, pigmented lesion, and body shaping. More systems will be coming up for the U.S. market as well, including a body-shaping device and a hair-removal device intended to boost our distribution partner that struggled a bit in 2023 due to the more challenging market condition.One final word about the flood that hit the area surrounding Florence at the beginning of this month. The EL.En facilities have not been touched while the premises of our company Ot-las were flooded with about 70 cm of water and suffered heavy damages to inventory, laser system in progress, tools, and office equipment. Also 1 important subcontractor of Cutlite Penta in Ot-las neighborhood suffered the same level of flood and reported damages on several subassemblies owned by Cutlite and located in their workshop. We're hoping to recover some of the damaged material. It's therefore still early to calculate an euro amount for the damages and also the potential recovery through insurances or government support. Worst part of the flood effect is that many employees of ours living at ground floors or using underground garages have been severely damaged in their personal property. Before giving the word to Enrico, I'd like to mention that in relation to the guidance that has been released with the press release, and I will shortly confirm, the potential effect of the flood damages has not been taken into account.Thank you. Enrico, you can go ahead.

[Enrico Romagnoli, executive]

Thank you, Andrea. I'll give a comment on our last financials in the first 9 months of 2023. The medical sector showed an increase of 6.4%, while in the industrial sector there was a decrease of 4.1%. And the consolidated revenues are EUR 493 million, up 1.8% compared to the EUR 484 million of the same period of 2022. In the 9 months of 2023, the weakness of U.S. dollar, renminbi, and yen against the euro had a cumulative and negative impact in terms of growth of approximately 2% and EUR 9 million in terms of absolute value.The gross margin in the 9 months stood at EUR 187.2 million, an increase of 4.3% compared to the EUR 179.5 million as of September 2022. That increase was higher than sales, thanks to the recovery in sales margin from 37.1% to 38%. In the 9 months, sales margin recorded an improvement in the medical sector above all due to the better mix of products sold, but also thanks to the price increase which mitigated the higher cost for materials. However, it suffered a decline in the industrial sector mainly for the difficulties on the Chinese market made increasingly competitive by the unfavorable local economy.Operating expenses increased and the impact on sales increased from 8.6% to 9%. The main reason are the sales and marketing expenses for trade fair and Congress incurred both in medical and in industrial companies. Staff costs increased of EUR 10.5 million and increased also the impact on sales from 14.5% to 16.4%. The cost for stock option and share-based payment to employees contributed to the cost increase. In 2023, the amount was EUR 2.8 million compared to the EUR 0.8 million in 2022 and the impact on EBIT margin was 0.2% in 2022 and 0.6% in 2023.As of September 2023, the group had over 2,100 employees in line with December 2022 and the new hires mainly involved Asclepion in Germany and Quanta System in Italy when the overall number of employees in China's company is decreasing. The EBITDA for the first 9 months was positive for EUR 61.9 million, down by 8.4% compared to the EUR 67.6 million of 2022, and the impact on turnover decreased from 13.9% to 12.6%. The depreciation and other accrual increased for the investment did in the past years and for bad debt reserve, while it reduced for warranty expenses, mainly due to the slowdown of turnover in China. The impact on turnover remains unchanged at 2%.The EBIT at the end of the 9 months of 2023 showed a positive balance of EUR 51.8 million, down by 10.6% compared to the EUR 57.9 million as of September 2022, with an EBIT margin on sales decreasing from 12% to 10.5%. Income before taxes for the 9 months was positive for EUR 50.9 million compared to the EUR 57.9 million, as of September 2022, with an impact on sales to 10.3% compared to the 12% of the same period of 2022. The pretax income of September 2023 was negative, impacted by Chinese activities. On September 2023, the Chinese pretax result was negative for EUR 7.5 million compared to an income of EUR 2.2 million for the last year.In terms of net financial position, the group at the end of September 2023 was positive for EUR 32.1 million, less than the beginning of the year EUR 75 million, but better than the June 2023 when the net financial position was around EUR 10 million. We also remind that in noncurrent assets are included midterm liquidity investment for EUR 23.6 million and so this amount is not included in the net financial position. During the third quarter, the trend in the medical sector was still positive with an increase in sales of 2% while the industrial decrease of 17%. The total turnover was EUR 147.4 million, down by 6.3% compared to the EUR 157.4 million of the corresponding quarter of 2022, while EBIT of the quarter was equal to EUR 12.9 million with an 8.8% margin on sales compared to the EUR 60.6 million of the same period in 2022 with a decrease of 22%.Looking to the cash flow. During the third quarter of 2023, the group returned to generating cash from its operating activities, recording an improvement in the net financial position of over EUR 20 million in the period. The income flows from operating activities contributed to this result, but also the contraction of net working capital and a limited volume of investment lower than what was recorded in the recent past. This trend is in line with the indication recently provided regarding the generation of cash and the evolution of working capital used for operating activities. We foresee a reversal of the trend in the second half of 2023 compared to what occurred in the first 6 months of the year.In the medical sector, the revenues was EUR 287.9 million, up 6% compared to the last 9 months of 2022. Growth remained sustained in almost all application segment with the exception of the system for aesthetic application which marked a marginal decline. The weakness of some important accounts caused a reduction in business volume in hair removal while sales for antiaging application continued to record a rapid growth. The excellent trend in sales of system for surgical application continued, maintaining growth close to 30% and a turnover of approximately EUR 56 million compared to the EUR 43.8 million in the same period of 2022, in line with the forecast and with the progressive recovery after the COVID period slowdown, which was more marked than in other segment.In the surgical application, urology systems constituted the most significant share of turnover and also the fastest growing one. The therapy segment also continued the growth, recording a turnover of EUR 11.9 million compared to the EUR 11.6 million in the third quarter 2022. Revenue for after-sales service and consumable recorded a higher growth in the 9 months than revenues for system, thanks to the increase in the installed base which physiologically entails a greater volume of technical assistance and use of consumables, especially in urology where every surgery requires a sterile optical fiber almost always for a single use.The industrial application sector recorded a decline of 4.1% in the first 9 months of 2023 due to the negative condition of the Chinese market which represented the main market for the Group in the sector. Revenues amounted to approximately EUR 205 million compared to the EUR 213.8 million of 2022. And the laser-cutting segment recorded a turnover of EUR 166.2 million compared to the EUR 180.5 million of 9 months 2022 with a decline of 8%, after years of progressive and rapid growth which led it to constitute approximately 81% of sales in the industrial sector. The cutting segment recorded a decline in revenues over the 9 months compared to the previous year. The turnover of Chinese activities registered in further decline of 23.5%, also penalized by an exchange rate effect of 6.6% due to the weakness of Chinese renminbi compared to euro. The growth in Cutlite Penta sales in the first 9 months, 14.4%, despite the decline recorded in the third quarter minus 5.8% was not sufficient to keep the segment turnover growing.The marking segment, especially thanks to Lasit activities, accelerated in the quarter and recorded a revenue growth of 18%, followed by the laser sources sector which grew by 10%. Turnover in after-sales service and consumable increase of 17%, thanks to the increase in the installed base. The sales trend by macro-geographical area for the 2 sectors highlights the best performance in foreign markets for the medical sector, while the industrial sector the excellent sales performance in Italy and Europe contrast by the slowdown in the rest of the world due to the lower sales recorded in cutting sector by the Chinese company.Andrea, please go ahead on the guidance for the 2023.

[Andrea Cangioli, executive]

After the first 9 months, the medical sector was capable to maintain growth in revenues and EBIT and the industrial sector was a slight decline due to results from China. The current macroeconomic context is affected by the increase in interest rates, inflation, and international instability aggravated by war conflicts. The group confirms its good competitive positioning and the concrete ability and possibility to seize the opportunities that its market will continue to offer in the coming years. As for the closing of this financial year, the objective is to maintain a slight growth in turnover compared to the previous financial year, containing the delay in EBIT compared to 2022 in the proportion recorded in the first 9 months.We are done with our prepared presentation, and we are ready for your questions.

[Bianca Fersini Mastelloni]

Andrea, we have 1 question in the list coming from Giovanni Selvetti from Berenberg. Go on, Giovanni. Thank you.

[Giovanni Selvetti, analyst]

Hello guys, can you hear me?

[Andrea Cangioli, executive]

Yes. Hi, Giovanni.

[Giovanni Selvetti, analyst]

I have a few. So the first one are on the industrial division. So if you can please quantify the impact at the EBIT level of the Chinese company in the third quarter. I remember it was around negative EUR 4 million in the first half. So just to have an idea whether this is deteriorating or not. And if so, whether you're suffering most on volumes or pricing?So staying on China, if you can please provide maybe more color on the different approaches that different private equities are actually using. Because if I remember correctly, the capital increase were done in different tranches. So if you could please remind what would be the cash outflows if all the private equities had to withdraw.And thirdly, you mentioned that Cutlite Penta may compensate part of the decline in Italy with the exports abroad. So what are the main markets you're targeting here?Going on the medical, you said that they are exceeding your expectation. Again, I was wondering if it's exceeding your expectation in terms of pricing or volumes because I can see that their gross margin improved. And in the press release you mentioned that it's a better mix of products sold. So I was wondering if it's fair to say that maybe it's easier to increase prices in surgical rather than aesthetics.The last question again on aesthetic is you mentioned that the performance of aesthetics was impacted by some weakness in hair removal due to some problems with certain customers. Are they ones already mentioned in the first half? And if yes, what's the situation there and what's going on?

[Andrea Cangioli, executive]

I hope I will be able to remember everything. But first, let's start from China. I believe that -- I don't know if Enrico mentioned, a negative EBIT of about EUR 6 million, which means about EUR 2 million of negative EBIT in the third quarter. This is the numbers. More or less proportional to what has been going on in the first half. For what concerns the private equity, the total investment by the private equity was about EUR 20 million. But we have different agreements or different, let's say, amendments to the agreements which in the moment have led us to book as financial liability, so as a potential liquidation right for about EUR 14 million. Enrico, correct me?

[Enrico Romagnoli, executive]

Yes, it's correct.

[Andrea Cangioli, executive]

So this is the current situation. The debt is already in the net financial position. So we have a financial debt against those private equity funds that have the right to redeem their shares. Yes, when I say that the performance of the medical market is beyond our expectation, I mean that when we drafted our 12 months budget based on which we released our yearly guidance, we were counting on a strong increase in the industrial revenues and in the industrial profits, both in Italy and in China, and of a decrease of profitability in the medical business and a very small increase, or more or less something even with 2022 in the medical field. This was for the whole year, which is not over yet.For the moment, we are getting a decent increase in medical in terms of revenue, and an increase in the absolute value of income from operation, which, in the mix that we had in our original budget, is exceeding our expectation. What, of course, it is not exceeding our expectations, but is way away from our expectations is the performance in China. Net of very poor performance in China, of course, our financials would have looked completely different in this year, '22, and would have probably looked better than our expectation. This is why I say that we're performing better than expectation.When it comes to margin increases, there are several components which contribute to the gross margin increase. There are more sales in surgical, which in this moment bear a higher average gross margin. There is the increase of prices that we were able to force at the beginning of the year on certain customers. There is the slowdown in certain large customer, which were bearing lower margins. So the total effect is an increase in gross margin. This ties to your question about the large accounts that were slower this year than in 2022. I confirm they are mainly the American accounts. We're talking mainly of the American accounts, which have been materially slower than 2022. And this is what was involving the hair removal accounts. Good news here is that you see the aesthetic is breaking more or less even with last year. Let's say we had a slowdown in hair removal based mainly on these accounts and also on a certain softness in certain markets like the Middle East. But we did very, very well in other market verticals, especially in overall the antiaging. The antiaging business has been doing extremely well, both with our ablative systems, CO2 and Erbium, and our picosecond systems for the Far East. I believe I answered all of your questions.

[Giovanni Selvetti, analyst]

I may have missed the answer, but I would also ask whether Cutlite Penta is exporting now, compensating the Italian...

[Andrea Cangioli, executive]

Yes, excuse me, I forgot. Cutlite Penta created a related subsidiary in France, which became the most important market in Europe, created also a related company in the United States, which in the next months will be by far the most important market abroad. So I would say that the most important markets for Cutlite Penta are the United States, France, and Spain. And then we have smaller sales volumes in Europe and in other countries.

[Bianca Fersini Mastelloni]

We have a question from Manon Coulon, Erasmus Gestion.

[Manon Coulon, analyst]

I have a few. First, can you give us a bit more detail on the sales growth for Q3? What is the impact of price increase? And maybe what is the impact of currency? I know, Enrico, that you touched a bit upon the impact on renminbi on industrials, but I would like to have the impact of all the currencies on the group level.Second question would be on staff costs. I can see, if I'm not wrong, a decrease from Q2 to Q3, from EUR 29 million to a bit south of EUR 26 million. What happened and what shall we think about for Q4?Third question would be the Congress in Singapore regarding your sales and marketing. It was, I think, a strong budget for 2023. That is not going to come back in 2024. How many euros are we talking about here? And regarding your visibility for 2024, what should we expect after 2023, which was quite unexpected, what are you thinking about for 2024?

[Andrea Cangioli, executive]

Manon, I could barely hear you. I'm sorry. Your last question is about what which was unexpected in 2023?

[Manon Coulon, analyst]

It's just about the visibility you have on the market on your sales for 2024.

[Andrea Cangioli, executive]

The visibility. And then what changed from EUR 29 million to EUR 26 million in Q2 and Q3? I'm sorry, but I really couldn't hear you. There's an echo and your voice comes soft. What changed from EUR 29 million to EUR 26 million? I couldn't understand.

[Manon Coulon, analyst]

Sorry. That was the staff costs, employee cost, employee expenses.

[Andrea Cangioli, executive]

The number of employees.

[Enrico Romagnoli, executive]

Staff cost.

[Andrea Cangioli, executive]

The staff cost. So visibility of 2024. Let's start from the last question. Visibility of 2024 comes from our [ compensation ] much more than what we had in the previous year. As I mentioned, in the last two years, we had massive order bookings for planning over the year. These kind of massive order bookings are not taking place anymore. By the way, this kind of modality ended up with the first months of 2023, and therefore, we are back to the standard visibility that we have on orders around 90 days, as I mentioned before. So in this moment, we don't have a visibility which is much more than the forecast of our customers, let's say, which are not fixed orders. The visibility in this moment is for a good year, but we are not yet in the position to give any more detail. About the cost of employees, Enrico, did you understand -- so you said that the cost is decreasing in the third quarter from the second quarter.

[Manon Coulon, analyst]

Yes, that's what I said, but maybe I'm wrong. But what I was seeing was EUR 29 million in Q2 2023 and I saw EUR 26 million in Q3 2023. So maybe layoffs or...

[Andrea Cangioli, executive]

Can you show, Enrico, the slide again, please?

[Enrico Romagnoli, executive]

Just a second. I'll show the slide.

[Andrea Cangioli, executive]

Your first question was on price increases, on the effect on margin and how much is the effect of price increase. The effect of price increases in medical is probably worth about one point of percentage of increase, because we applied in medical a 10% price increase, but this was basically absorbed and accepted by a fairly small part of the population. And then typically we have new products on which the concept of price increase itself does not apply. So I hope I answered to your first question.

[Enrico Romagnoli, executive]

Andrea, excuse me, about staff.

[Andrea Cangioli, executive]

This is what you were mentioning.

[Enrico Romagnoli, executive]

About staff, you can see that the amount is EUR 25.7 million in the Q3 of 2023, when the staff cost in the Q2 was EUR 29 million and in the Q1 was EUR 26 million. In the first half of 2023, the number of employees was higher than at the end of September, because there was a staff reduction mainly in Chinese company. And moreover, there is to take into consideration that in the Q3 there is August, for the company at least, is a holiday period. So the cost of staff had a natural reduction in the Q3 compared to the other quarter. This is probably the main reason.

[Andrea Cangioli, executive]

Two comments to make on this. One, general, the staff cost increases in the first months of 2023 compared to 2022, because during 2022 the staff costs continuously increased. And so the staff cost was much higher at the end of the year than at the beginning of the year. Therefore, the comparison with the first months of the year shows a sharper increase. About the absolute value, Enrico, I believe there was about EUR 800,000 single-time cost in China for stock-based compensation in the first quarters, which is not replicating in the following quarters.

[Enrico Romagnoli, executive]

Yeah. In the Q1, yes, there was less than EUR 1 million.

[Andrea Cangioli, executive]

Yes. But this was a one-time expense on the Chinese books, which we are not finding anymore in Q3. Did we get everything, Manon?

[Manon Coulon, analyst]

Maybe two follow-ups. The currency impact on Q3 at group level.

[Andrea Cangioli, executive]

The what?

[Enrico Romagnoli, executive]

The impact of currency. I gave the impact in the nine months. In the nine months, we consolidated foreign currency as U.S. dollar, renminbi, yen, and the overall impact in the nine months was EUR 9 million reduction in sales. And so it had a negative impact in the growth rate of 2%. I don't have the impact in the Q3, but if you give me a second, I try to calculate it.

[Andrea Cangioli, executive]

Okay. And while Enrico calculates, you have another question?

[Manon Coulon, analyst]

Yes. On the Singapore Congress, because I think you mentioned that last time you had this, I think it's on dermatology you had a Congress, it was in Milan, so the budget was much lower than Singapore, and it shouldn't happen again in 2024. So what was the budget for this Congress?

[Andrea Cangioli, executive]

For a single Congress or for the total Congress expense?

[Manon Coulon, analyst]

For the Singapore one, the Singapore dermatology one.

[Andrea Cangioli, executive]

I really can't tell. I can tell you that our budget is extremely expansive and expensive. We have about EUR 3 million more than 2023 in expenses. The main Congresses are gone. We have them -- though we are in these days attending an expensive Congress in Hong Kong, which is the east Cosmoprof. About the details of the expense of the single Congress, I believe the Congress in Singapore itself costed about, all included, EUR 250,000. The expense of a Congress includes the following accounts: purchase of the space with the Congress organization; setup of the stand; flying and having our employees stay there and flying and staying there and paying the performance of lecturers to a Congress. Singapore, I believe, has been by far the most expensive Congress we have attended in the last years.The next important and very expensive Congress will be in Paris, the IMCAS at the end of January. But, of course, at least flying cost will be much, much lower than to Singapore. And then for what concerns sales and marketing expense, traveling, we need to travel a lot. Sales in this period are not coming by themselves. Market needs to be stimulated. Some of the travel are to countries in which we are opening new markets. For sure, there's an important event planned in India for the beginning of December which is aimed to open the market -- to open to us the Indian market, which to date has not been a relevant market for our medical product. Therefore, we spend a lot in sales and marketing. But this is very important in order to give us the opportunity to further expand our international reach.

[Enrico Romagnoli, executive]

The impact, Manon, on the Q3, we have a negative impact in the Q3 due to the foreign currency of EUR 4.2 million. So in the nine months EUR 9.1 million and in the three months EUR 4.2 million.

[Bianca Fersini Mastelloni]

Andrea, we have one more question from Carlo Maritano from Intermonte.

[Carlo Maritano, analyst]

I just have 3 questions from my side. The first 1 is on CapEx. In the 9 months we've seen quite important reduction compared to last year. I was wondering what we can assume as a normal CapEx in the coming years in absence of extraordinary CapEx. The second one is related to the marking business. In the third quarter, it registered some slowdown compared to the previous quarter. I was wondering if it is an issue related to the Industry 4.0 or is there anything else. And finally, I was wondering if you could provide us any update on the acne treatment product, how the first phase is going, if there's any news you can share with us.

[Andrea Cangioli, executive]

Carlo, what was the second? I'm sorry, my speaker is very bad. What was your second question about?

[Carlo Maritano, analyst]

The second question was about CapEx. No, sorry, the marking business.

[Andrea Cangioli, executive]

The marking business. Okay.

[Carlo Maritano, analyst]

The performance in the third quarter, if it is related to Industry 4.0, or if it's anything else explaining the performance.

[Andrea Cangioli, executive]

Okay, CapEx. Yes, CapEx is slowing down. We spent a lot enlarging our facilities, which has, including the number, the increase in the number of employees increased the, let's say, standard CapEx, which I probably believe is now up to something between EUR 8 million and EUR 10 million. We will end up, in fact, in this year between EUR 16 million and EUR 18 million, out of which EUR 5 million to EUR 6 million are further increases -- further investments in new buildings, while the rest is toolings, cars, something which is between EUR 8 million and EUR 10 million is the normal rate of investment that we need just to turn around, let's say.Marking business is doing very well in Italy and even better abroad due to the effect of the new subsidiaries. You are right, they are less affected by the 4.0. I believe that mainly they are targeting a need which is mandatory. The investment is smaller. And so, of course, everybody prefers to have tax cuts, let's say, tied to his investment. But while in the cutting business we are talking of investment of the order of magnitude between EUR 300,000, EUR 600,000, EUR 700,000, standard laser markets are worth EUR 30,000, EUR 40,000. I mean they are a fairly large investment, but they are not -- while for a large investment, a tax cut can be a deal changer. For that kind of devices, not necessarily.Acne, finally, the Accure Acne company is going ahead with the preliminary launch of devices. We are experiencing the first happy customers with our devices. There are about a few dozens of them. The number of units that in this preliminary launch have been placed on the U.S. market is probably around 30 units and will be increasing till the end of the year. Of course, it's a test launch. There are also some adjustments that need to be taken on the device now that we start working intensively on it. But overall, the acceptance of the systems and the satisfaction of customers is high. And therefore, we hope that we have all the condition to get in the following phase, which will be the launch of the business on larger scale, which has also to combine a funding phase because, as you might remember, the group participated to the technical development of the device, but did not participate to the funding of the clearance expenses and of the marketing expenses which were left to the burden of the affiliated company Accure Acne and to its funding partners. Hello?

[Bianca Fersini Mastelloni]

Andrea, we have not any other question in our list. I kindly want to ask to the floor if there are some other questions.

[Carlo Maritano, analyst]

Can I may?

[Bianca Fersini Mastelloni]

Yes, Andrea, go on, please.

[Andrea Bonfa, analyst]

Very quickly, Andrea, I didn't catch exactly which was the unit impacted by the flooding in the Florence area and also the supplier. And what is actually the impact on your production flow or if there is any impact on your expectation for sales and activity in general.

[Andrea Cangioli, executive]

The involved units are Ot-las. Ot-las is a company which is worth about EUR 5 million of revenues over the year. And they have a small factory of about 600 square meters. They cleaned up the factory over the weekend. All the employees were exceptionally committed to the cleaning up of the ruined facility. We are not fully again able to work, but basically, we have absorbed the shock in terms of capabilities of producing.In terms of damage, it's early to say because many toolings, many devices have been damaged. But there is a chance that we can recover. So it will take a little bit longer to understand the full damage. The other partner that was damaged is a subcontractor of Cutlite Penta. They assemble on behalf of Cutlite Penta, and they assemble materials that are owned by Cutlite Penta. Therefore, the flood ruined the materials at our subcontractor place. But the ownership of the materials is of Cutlite Penta. And so we will have to see again here 2 things: first, how much we will be able to recover of this damaged material; second, what kind of insurance coverage we can have in order to recover the damage that we suffered.None of these damages is, I believe, material both in the amount of damage compared, of course, to the consolidated amount. Then it can be material for the single activity for a short period. And I believe we shouldn't have material impediments to our manufacturing capacity. Also, because this production site is not the only production site where Cutlite Penta performs its production activity. But they have their own manufacturing floor in Prato, which has not been affected. They have a second manufacturing floor in Val d'Elsa which has not been affected. This was a relevant 1, probably will take some time to go back to regime, but it shouldn't be the reason for changing the production schedules on the short term.

[Andrea Bonfa, analyst]

Very clear. If I may, a last one, you were able to improve your net cash, thanks to good management of working capital. Shall we expect the same to continue also in Q4? Can you guide us what are your expectation for year-end cash level on this?

[Andrea Cangioli, executive]

We are strongly working for that and the expectation is to continue under this line, to reduce the inventory, and to reduce the net capital both in absolute value and in impact on our sales. This is what we expect to happen also in the fourth quarter, which by the way usually is the most favorable because it's the end of the forecasting cycles, it's the end of the year. We usually had a good quarter cash wise in the fourth quarter. In this year, we will though have a disadvantage when compared to the other years. In Italy, we won't have the inflow of the downpayments for the Industry 4.0, which were irrelevant cash inflow in December in the last year. Since the Industry 4.0 is not relevant and it's very marginal, we are not going to see an increase in downpayments in these last months. But we count on seeing the net cash position improving in these last months.

[Andrea Bonfa, analyst]

And if I may, is your supply chain and, let's say, logistic network now back to usual, like in 2019, or how do you see the situation right now?

[Andrea Cangioli, executive]

When I talk of a normalization process after the hype, this involves our markets and conversely it involves also our supply markets. We are back to normal relations. We purchase things and they deliver in decent terms. We purchase things, and we can find them, and they're available. There are exceptions. There are a few exceptions still on certain electric components. But overall, we don't need to force the supply chain in order to get material because the supply chain is not running at its full capacity anymore.

[Bianca Fersini Mastelloni]

We have not any other question in our list. There are more questions from the floor? Okay. If there are no more questions, we finish the conference. And if you have some questions to investigate, please do not hesitate to contact Enrico Romagnoli. He will be happy to answer your question. Thank you for attending this conference, and we hope to have you all again next time. Good afternoon to everybody. Bye.

[Andrea Cangioli, executive]

Thank you.

[Enrico Romagnoli, executive]

Thank you.

[Andrea Cangioli, executive]

Thank you, everybody.