Cementir Holding NV

MIL:CEM

Earnings Call Transcript 2022-Q3

[Operator]

Good afternoon. This is the Chorus Call conference operator. Welcome, and thank you for joining the Cementir Holdings 9 months 2022 Results Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Mr. Marco Maria Bianconi, Head of M&A and Investor Relations. Please go ahead, sir.

[Marco Bianconi, executive]

Thank you, and welcome, everybody. Good afternoon and Good morning. Welcome to Cementir Holding 2022 First 9 Months Results. My name is Marco Bianconi, and I'm here with our Chairman and Chief Executive, Francesco Caltagirone. Good afternoon. And I'm going to go through 10 slides of presentation deck that has been distributed. And at the end, we're happy to take any questions you may have.

Starting with the presentation on Page 2, just a few financial highlights on the period. Revenues reached EUR 1.25 billion, up 25% year-over-year, excluding IAS-29, revenues reached EUR 1.248 billion, up 24%, mainly driven by price increases. Overall, volumes were down in low single digits in cement due to negative trend in Turkey, Denmark, China and Egypt, a mid-single-digit decline for RMC and aggregate.

EBITDA reached EUR 238.3 million, up 10.8% year-over-year, excluding IAS-29, EBITDA reached EUR 252.9 million, up 17.6%. Positive results in Belgium, Denmark, Turkey, U.S. and Egypt and negative results in Asia Pacific and Sweden. The EBITDA includes EUR 10.7 million of Turkish nonindustrial land revaluation.

EBIT reached EUR 145.1 million, up 8.8% year-over-year, excluding IAS-29, EBIT would have been EUR 167.3 million, up 25.5%. The profit before taxes reached EUR 160.5 million, up 32.5%. And then financial debt reached EUR 29.9 million, a reduction of over EUR 70 million year-on-year, including IFRS 16 impact and EUR 28 million of dividend distribution.

I'm going to skip Page 3, just to highlight the fact that Turkey is reported according to IAS-29. And the main point to get across this slide is that there is a minor effect of revenues and EBITDA, which is almost completely offset at the net financial income level. So the overall impact of the IAS-29A2 and pretax is almost negligible. But we can go into details if necessary.

Moving on to the different geographies on Page 4. Starting with the most important division, accounting for around 45% of group EBITDA, Nordic and Baltic here, you can see that Denmark cement volumes were up 10% due to increased market activity and favorable weather and new infrastructure projects. White cement exports declined due to a redistribution of to U.S. exports and other group companies and lower sales in some European countries.

Ready-mix volumes were down 7% due to a different commercial policy and aggregates also were down 26% due to difficult comparable figures. Overall, EBITDA increased by 9% in this region in Denmark, driven by cement business, where stronger prices offset higher raw materials and energy and logistics costs.

In Norway, RMC sales volumes were up by 5%, mainly driven by new infrastructure projects, which prices up. there was a higher EBITDA, thanks to rising volumes and prices despite cost inflation. There was also a mild Norwegian krona revaluation versus the euro in the period.

In Sweden, results were a bit lower as RMC sales volumes were down 12% and aggregate volumes were down 33% due to the completion of major infrastructure projects in the period. As a consequence, EBITDA was lower than last year. And there was also the impact of a mild Swedish krona devaluation versus the euro.

Moving to Page 5 on Belgium and France. As you can see here, cement volumes were broadly unchanged, with average prices up. Ready-mix volumes were down by around and aggregate volumes were up by 4%, driven by stronger demand for infrastructure and favorable weather, mainly in Belgium. Overall, EBITDA increased by 18% in the period from last year, benefiting from higher prices and despite the sharp rise in fuel and electricity costs as well as raw materials and fixed costs.

Moving to Page 6, North America. Here, cement volumes growth was moderate, only around 2%, driven mainly by good trading in Texas and California, whereas in the Europe region and in Florida, there was a negative impact due to bad weather and some logistical problems. Overall, good cost control and higher cement prices were behind an EBITDA increase of around 31% from last year. There was also a positive impact from currency of around 12% U.S. dollar revaluation versus the euro in the period.

Moving to the next slide, on Page 7, Asia Pacific. Here, looking at China, revenue was actually up by 11.5%, driven by cement price increases, where the volumes were down 8% due mainly to lockdown in the region and logistics issues and some weather conditions. Overall, in China, EBITDA was down 9% due to increased variable costs and lower volumes despite higher average prices and a positive exchange rate impact.

In Malaysia, revenue was up by 31%, driven both by pricing and volumes. EBITDA though declined by around 11% as a result of higher fuel and freight cost to Australia. There was also a revaluation of 6.5% of the Malaysian ringgit versus the euro in the period.

Moving to Page 8, here, cement sales in euro increased by 44.7% driven by price increases despite a 74% Turkish devaluation versus euro. Domestic cement volumes were down 13%, impacted by bad weather in Q1 and a sharp contraction in some regions like Eastern Anatolia. Cement exports were up by 10% and RMC volumes were down actually by 10.5%, whereas aggregates were up 70% due to full ramp-up of the new aggregate business that was acquired in Q4 of last year. EBITDA includes EUR 10.7 million of nonindustrial property land revaluation, and like-for-like improvement was driven by cement price increases more than offsetting production costs.

On Page 9, in Egypt, you can see that white cement volumes declined by 5%, with domestic sales down by 7% due to inventory buildup by Egyptian customers and greater competition. Also export was mildly down due to lower deliveries to certain countries. Overall, EBITDA increased by 24%, driven by higher prices despite driving fuel cost. There was a stable Egyptian pound currency exchange versus the euro.

And the last slide on Page 10 is the full year guidance where -- which has been unchanged with revenues for the year expected to exceed EUR 1.5 billion, an EBITDA range between EUR 305 million and EUR 315 million, and net cash position of around EUR 60 million after a CapEx of around EUR 95 million.

And clearly, this is a guidance that has been given before the implementation of YAS29. So now I'll open up the floor to any questions you may have to our Chairman and Chief Executive. Thank you.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from Emanuele Gallazzi with Equita.

[Emanuele Gallazzi, analyst]

I have 3 questions on the Nordics region. The first one is on Denmark, which actually posted a very strong performance in the third quarter, in particular at the profitability level. So can you just comment on the drivers of this performance? I'm just to understand there is a that -- the second one is on price hikes. I think that negotiations are ongoing in the region for price hikes. Any comment on your expectation will be useful? And the last one, looking at 2022. I know that may be, let's say, too early, but what do you expect in terms of volume evolution and profitability in the Nordics area for the next year?

[Francesco Caltagirone, executive]

The market, I mean Nordic and Baltic performance quite well. And I think one of the reason of our good performance, besides -- the price side is that we succeed in, let me say, keeping the cost inflation at a reasonable level, especially because we have ahead, let me say, electricity and partly coal. And for this reason, I think that the cost structure of all the company, but especially in North end Baltic has been quite favorable. And -- as you know, in Denmark, we are the only player, and so I cannot comment any kind of price hikes because it's, let me say, linked to the price increase in energy or in distribution costs. And so we are still in a situation where we are calculating the effect of this probable effect of this bio it's just an estimate that we are a guess for the next year. So for sure, as you have seen so far, the fact that we, for example, if to the customer matter the possibility -- not a possibility regard to, for example, the CO2 cost that is invoiced separately.

So we don't take the risk of the CO2 fluctuating high or low. And also the reason of this would result that some other competitors just let me say, a sort of forecast for the entire year and probably some of them missed the trend of the CO2, like the trend of the energy. 2023, let's say that we are seeing the market that is slowing like most of the market in Europe. But Nordic and Baltic usually, and especially also because we produce white cement that is less exposed to the economic cycle. We don't see today major downturn in terms of profitability going into 2023. We are not considering any other spike in energy, other thing coming out from the actual war between Russia and Ukraine.

So today, we are cautious, but you have seen that in this quarter, the things the number went even better the previous quarter, considering that this quarter it's the recurring EBITDA is 100%. So we don't have, let me say, extra items like what we had in the first half. So it is genuine. And we are, let me say, producing a good profitability. And we think also that growing towards the end of the year, more or less, we should continue at this pace.

[Operator]

The next question is from Matteo Bonizzoni with Kepler Cheuvreux.

[Matteo Bonizzoni, analyst]

Yes. Thank you have a question. I was planning on the pricing impact overall in the third quarter. So revenues dropped by 20%. Your volumes were down. It [indiscernible] the pricing at really for the price impact was 30%, which in term is well above the indication which we provided within the year in the range of plus 30%. The second question is regarding the guidance. We have confirmed the guidance.

Actually, in the 9 months, if you consider the adjusted EBITDA is excluding this EUR 10.4 million of real estate runoff in Turkey and also lag, the EBITDA asset was up 14%. And also it seems that -- this last 5%, which I think, but can you confirm excluding IAS29, exposures. In other words, it implies a significant slowdown in the fourth quarter compared to the plan, which we see in the 9 months. And if the price increases, which we have done, for example, each see quite sizable structure, which makes sense. How can you let that in Q4, you should this kind of slow down?

And the third and last question is on IAS29 on 2023, is that sooner on the environment. that question. Are your assumptions to have a lease or are considering the scenario in which equals sold be down.

[Marco Bianconi, executive]

Let's say that you are right that our revenues are up nearly more than 20% compared to our initial forecast of around 12%. As you have seen probably most of our -- almost some of other competitors there, especially in Europe, the format poorly because they implemented a wrong price high linked to a different view on the increase of the cost of energy and distribution what alternate is that some of them aligned to their cost structure in the second half of the year.

And so we follow the this. So it's clear that as it is today, even considering that we are already in November, the guidance without considering, let me say, the GAAP 2019 results, let me say, arrived just in this, let me say, third quarter, I think that the revenues will be around EUR 1.65 billion and not EUR 1.5. billion. And without Today, let's say, it's difficult to estimate the IAS29, but with the recurring EBITDA made, let me say, in continuity with the last years, I think that for sure will be higher than the guidance. So we just kept the guidance not because we believe of a strong or sudden slowdown, but because at the end, as you know, we have to approve the number with YAS29.

And with 21, you have to take the 31st of December exchange rates arise against euro. And the first half, you can have different numbers, especially on the EBITDA because in terms of net profit, our gross profit, as you have seen the difference is between 2% or 3%. But on the net -- on the EBITDA because on the guidance, we gave the EBITDA, let's say, that is difficult. And if the things are, let me say, continue with this pace, you can do, let me say, the most.

And as you said, we might be double-digit, let say in terms of millions of euro ahead of the guidance. But if we have a sudden devaluation at the end of the year of article, the number officially approved might be close to this range, even if I think it will be the higher part of the range anyway because I don't think that we should have another devaluation of 20%, 30%. But let's say that usually, the recurring EBITDA of the fourth quarter is more or less aligned with the third quarter. And so let's say, it's up to you to make the calculation. But today, what I can say quite certainly, is that the revenues will be 1% higher than what we gave and the EBITDA without the recurring EBITDA without IAS29 would be above the guidance.

The net cash and the CapEx will be more or less the same because even that the exchange rate might affect and also, as you can imagine, when you increase from 1 year to another one of the revenues of around EUR 300 million. The net -- the working capital absorbs part of the cash that will be released a little bit later. But let me say, have a positive move down even on the net cash position, even if I believe that we will not go much higher than the EUR 60 million because, let me say, despite the ramp-up of the revenues is very fast. And let me say, even if our cash collection is quite fast around, let me say, 45, 60 days depending on the market, then each month is more or less EUR 150 million. And so days, EUR 75 million. And so when you collect the 15 days, even had, but you have EUR 150 million of increase. It seems that your net cash position is less at the end, as you can imagine, this cash, let me say, will be collected just a few weeks later.

[Francesco Caltagirone, executive]

Let's say, I don't have the crystal pallet's say that you have seen that this company because has a product portfolio that is from my point of view, composed by great cement, future chat and white cement is quite resilient compared to other, let me say, comparable players. Then also the possibility in our, let me say, layout to choose between -- for both grain and wine to source from North Europe or Middle East depending on the cost at CO2 and distribution costs and also, let me say, enhance the profitability. So let's say, it's very difficult to know, as you can imagine, to say which is the average medium price of the energy next year or the coal price, it would be difficult to get for everybody. I can say that we are hedged in -- for the electricity around 60% especially [indiscernible]

And so even if there will be the pie what happened in this year, probably some players that are not as we are might increase the price 2 or 3x during the year, like what happened this year. So I can -- I don't want to guess. I can say that we can follow the market less. But for sure, looking after the last quarter, this quarter, the macro picture due to the continued increase of the rates, for sure, will have some, let me say, weakness, especially in the real estate. For the infrastructural projects, I are more positive because, let me say, you know that there is -- there are billions of euro that will be invested, especially for the energy transition. And so on the real estate side, I am more -- a softer in terms of that if the montage rate will go up to 5%, 6% for sure compared to last year that were around 1% and now are around 2.5%, 3% can, let me say, impact. But then as you have seen also this year, we then also on the dot, because at the end, we succeeded in, let me say, in a balancing a lower market with a higher product structure.

[Operator]

The next question is from Tobias Woerner with Stifel.

[Tobias Woerner, analyst]

Than questions. 2, if I may. Number one, when you look to housing, obviously, higher mortgage rates and the cost of living crisis may well have an impact to remind ourselves, what is your exposure at the bigger picture in terms of end demand to housing and maybe broken down into the overall exposure also between new and renovation. That would be helpful, number one.

Number 2, we have a very solid, very strong balance sheet and valuations have come down across markets and buyers have withdrawn private equity is no longer active. Do you feel now more comfortable to look at the acquisitions now or acquisition strategy now rather than waiting.

[Marco Bianconi, executive]

I'll take the first one. As you know, we do have an exposure to residential. And clearly, this depends on the country. If you take the group overall, we estimate that being between 40% and 50%. In this is due to our higher than peers exposure to white cement, which is a typical, say, housing renovation sort of business. So I would say that most of the demand for white tenants is about 1/3 of our business is actually a renovation, repair and maintenance driven.

The rest of the 40%, 50% of overall total exposure to residential new build. Let's remind ourselves that, generally speaking, construction techniques tend to vary significantly across countries. So for example, the cement intensity of new build residential build in Denmark is much lower than what you would expect in Belgium for that matter or in Southern Europe because of its other materials are much more used, for example, bricks or timber.

So overall, to answer your question, 40% to 50% residential. And I would say of that around half is renovation half is new build. And then I would then leave the floor to Francesco for the second question on M&A. For sure, the say that the price now are more interesting, especially if you look at the stock price of some contents, let's say, I'm still cautious about knowing well which will be the attitude of the regulator for the CO2 for the border that announcement because the profitability can we allow especially if you take, for example, Q2, EUR 100, like it was 2 months ago today is EUR around EUR 70.

So -- and it seems that most of the European country now are pushing for, let me say, a reasonable reason for sale fuel because of the Ukrainian crisis, and this probably can move a little bit forward, let me say, the, I believe, the 2030 target for the whole industry. So we are in the situation at the end of the year that will be cash positive when we produce more than EUR 100 million -- nearly EUR 150 million of industrial free cash flow to buy other assets. But let's say, it's a bit premature for us to start to invest.

We want to understand that what will happen, which will be the outcome of this war. And how much, let me say, possible the estimate is that the damage that this very high energy price producing, let me say, in the value chain because there are -- as you can imagine, some medium-sized players that hedged not age at all. Some are very exposed to the gas price and so it depends. We are ready because we -- let me say, as we did in the last 20 years to take advantage of the opportunity. But frankly speaking, today on my deck, there are no, let me say, value opportunity in best. So this doesn't mean that won't arrive the right opportunity, but I think we need more visibility a bit more. I appreciate the answer.

[Operator]

The next question is from Emanuele Negri with Mediobanca.

[Emanuele Negri, analyst]

I have say, 2 questions. The first one is on hedging. You successfully completed hedging of list cost in the last quarter. Do you believe that the rolling of the hedging may become increasingly costly and expensive in the next quarters and therefore [indiscernible] profitability? And the second one is about 13 profitability. I'm sorry, but I don't linear talking about this. So in terms of Denmark, it allows that profitability seems to be sustainable in the last quarter of this year. Do you think that this level of margins may be sustainable even for the next year?

[Marco Bianconi, executive]

For this year, we are, let me say, full year now -- we don't -- I don't think probably we have a 2% or 3% of coal that we have to purchase. But we are a way we have also to consider that the market is slowing a bit and probably we don't need -- we want to meet, let me say, to buy, let me say, some quantity of coal by the end or the end of the year -- the profitability in the Nordic and Baltic, I would say, I think that we never spike -- that the market is more stable compared to other markets. So for sure, it's linked to the other -- the economic environment of the rest of Europe.

As I said before, from my point of view for part that the company's resilience to the cost increase, the ability to pass the cost. This doesn't mean that if one day, for example, we have to sell the cement of EUR 500 per ton because the cost spike at EUR 500 for sure, the market in terms of demand will be hit -- but then, let's say, like what you can see so far, we might sell less, but also you have to consider that there is a positive, let me say expect to sell less is that you see in CO2. And so you have -- you need to buy less CO2.

And also for the reason you have to balance and to understand if sometimes it is better to follow the market if it grows. So it's better to leave the cement Today, the dispassion cost of cement, as you can imagine, is much higher than 2 years ago because of the energy cost. And if you have the market close to your, let's say, plant, you are stronger compared to other, let me say, competitors that need to, let me say, deliver the cement special balance far away.

So in Denmark, I think we are very well positioned because the country is small and the distribution costs are, let me say, modest. In other countries, like, for example, chain in Germany, in the U.S., you have compared to the distribution cost per ton are much higher, not because of the single gross per ton, but because of the average kilometers -- so I think that from the mine that we have only, let me say, 2 big plants in 2, let me say, areas between, we are close to the Paris area and between brands and Paris. The distribution are, let me say, also there quite, let me say, favorable. So I'd say difficult to get if the profitability will remain. I think that the company has all, let me say, the good cards to play this game.

[Operator]

The next question is from Gian Marco Gadini with Banca Akros.

[Gian Gadini, analyst]

As regards the relocation, I was wondering whether some wind projects were known currently. If I'm not mistaken, there was 1 plant planned in Southeast Asia.

[Marco Bianconi, executive]

Well, we are still, let me say, looking for an opportunity at the field. But -- and it is, let me say, in Southeast Asia and China. But the lockdown continued in China. And so we were at table, let me say, as I say, probably a few quarters ago, to, let me say, go through all the process due diligence that you might have. So we'll see the need to have, let's say, another new plants in that area. But so far, let's say, we have signed the right place with the right raw materials. So I don't think that -- and even energy cost, now distribution cost impact much higher than before. So some, let me say, location that till 1 year ago were, let me say, good spot. Now they are not anymore a good spot because the solution costs are too high, and so the profitability will be hampered. So we are still looking at the opportunities, but let's say, there is not a ready opportunity.

[Operator]

The next question is from Giuseppe Grimaldi from BNP Paribas Exane.

[Giuseppe Grimaldi, analyst]

I have 2 questions. The first one is on Egypt. It seems actually you are sourcing more and more U.S. from the Egyptian plant. If you can help us in understanding how much it matters in terms of quantity tons basically. And if we should expect this to be increasingly visible in the next quarters? And the second one is a follow-up on pricing. It seems that the price increase that you implemented really in Q3 was remarkable. Can you quantify if you have implemented a further price increase in Q3 compared to the second quarter?

[Marco Bianconi, executive]

Egypt, I mean, let's say, today, we are growing at 50% of capacity. So we have another kiln that is still, and we can -- we are waiting a raison 7 years, but we are close to 1. So we can, let me say, use buses up to 30,000 tons with new hardware compared to the 5,000, 6,000 tonnes today. So it will be much more competitive for the dispatching of cement when we -- I hope that during 2023, this will happen as it seems that we are close -- so for sure, today, even because 2 days ago, Egyptian pound devaluated 15%, it will be -- and you don't have the CO2 issue. It is more convenient, especially for export to sell from Egypt from Denmark. And so I think and I hope that we can increase today, we export from A to nearly 100,000 tons, but for sure, we can increase. But it's more linked to the new harbor then our capacity because with the route innovation of 5,000, 6,000 is not so convenient let me say to ship so this cement to the United States.

[Giuseppe Grimaldi, analyst]

The other question is about -- the pricing, if you have increased for the prices into Q3 compared to Q2 -- and if you can help me quantify it?

[Marco Bianconi, executive]

As you can imagine, if we were, let me say, forecasting at the beginning of the year at 12%, 14% of increase. And now we are with the cement that is 1% lower in terms of last year than, let's say, in between the second and third quarter, there has been, let me say, a price increase in the market where we operate, that is between 8% and 10%. As we followed the market and we didn't increase the price, let me say -- so it was just -- and so I think that the extra margin that we realized, especially in this quarter, I mean, it was mainly because we succeed in keeping the energy price lower due to the good hedging some to the increase of the final price of cement.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from Bruno Permutti with Intesa Sanpolo.

[Bruno Permutti, analyst]

I was wondering about at -- We believe that in 2003, we'd be able to leverage deleverage and prices also in the and above all should there be a decline in volumes that is not a scenario that can be excluded right now? Do you believe that the current level of prices will continue to be sustainable. This is -- so I'd like to understand above all for the U.S. market and of Chinese market for France in Berne, what you would expect in terms of volumes, we are starting to see positive decline and in relation to prices what could be the impact?

And a second one on Turkey, it is possible to have an idea of the price level in the country. And I'd like to also want to understand it is -- it makes sense to export from Turkey at present or if the price level as in the case constrict high level to be for exports to be a viable.

[Francesco Caltagirone, executive]

Sorry. Let's say that we think that the price structure can be kept in China and U.S.A., we sell white cement. And in China, we are the only player that produce well above average quality of white cement. The U.S.A., we are the only producer. So I don't see a major threat to pricing structure in both this country for this reason. Belgium, France, let's say that I believe that our plan in terms of cost structure is the most competitive in the range of 500 kilometers. So I don't believe, especially because the distribution costs are increasing that even if the market will slow down, there might be a significant pressure on the price. Even because some players are still.

let me say, below there are, let me say, in terms of price below their full cost probably, you have seen that some of them reported a weak result in the this. So I think that we are still in an environment that besides the word the pressure are for the price to continue to grow -- the price level is 3 is, let me say, why boot in the western part, in the eastern part is weaker, but also the export -- we export close to 1 million tonnes of cement. You need to export because difficult to find tough currency. And so we export even because with the dollar or the euro that we cash-in we buy coal and spare parts. So the price, let's say, of the export is significantly higher than last year. For example, I don't say that it is not up, but let's say, we went from EUR 30, EUR 32 to around 50-50.

Internal price in Turkish lira, there is so far the real inflation in 9 months has been 85%. So let's say that every week we update the price list. And so it's difficult to say which is the average price or is the rise codifies in the next 2 months, we will have another increase of 20%, 25% of the inter the domestic price.

And Bruno, sorry, the third question was on transportation cost in Turkey, could you just rephrase the question?

[Bruno Permutti, analyst]

Yes, now it is volume was related to the second one. So considering also transportation costs, there's still an option to export, but your answer because I see that EUR 5 55 per share per year per ton price to really have a very competitive reason. That's how I think it.

[Operator]

The next question is from Konstantinos Kontos with Palm Harbour Capital.

[Konstantinos Kontos;PalmHarbourCapital, analyst]

Congratulations for the great results. 2 questions, if I may. The first one is regarding capital allocation. Like we're talking about a very healthy balance sheet that's going to be cash positive by the end of the year and generate a little bit of size. So appreciate that we are waiting for the right opportunity regarding M&A, but are you exploring any other opportunities in the meantime.

And that is a follow-up question. Let's say, our dividend policy between 20%, 25%, and we remain easy so I believe that if at the end of the year, the positive number will be confirmed. So we will let me say a up the dividend like we did last year. Buy back, let's say, we are near a threshold where, let me say, the free float cannot, let me say, continue to be low because today, we are at around 28%, 27.5% after the buyback we did last year.

[Marco Bianconi, executive]

So let's say that now comfortably than last year when we had negative rates, let's say, we started to have a positive net cash position with the rates that are kind of going up. So we are already now because, let's say, we have EUR 30 million of net cash debt now, but including EUR 70 million of the IFRS 16 leasing. So original, we have EUR 40 million, EUR 50 million of net cash and we are investing with a part of 34%.

So let's say that in this situation, we prefer to pile up the cash and to wait for the right opportunity, even because in cement, when you want to buy a single plus or company, you need hundreds of million euros. So even if for 1 or 2 years, we bill up our, let me say, industrial cash flow, I don't see that is a major problem. So we speak to our policy to wait and see the right opportunity. And now that there are positive rates, let's say, that this cash produced also a nice return and should be also for the next couple of years.

So the timing, we don't have a sale that we don't have, let me say, the right asset or the right when we see opportunity.

[Konstantinos Kontos;PalmHarbourCapital, analyst]

That means [indiscernible] and a follow-up regarding the holding company like because of service like long range comes. So are you seeing of releasing some of those sales increase therefore 7 years and deal allow for servant future? And any thoughts on the holding company structure?

[Marco Bianconi, executive]

Frankly speaking, we have nearly 70% of family. And today, we are, let me say, orders are less than 3x EBITDA and nearly 60% of the net roof. So at this level, to dilute our, let me say, take to create more liquidity, I think it's not very convenient -- so we never did it and we just increased when we both chairmen 25 years ago, we just had 51%. And during this year, we just increased our stake. So we believe as also the numbers give a reason that the company is well cited, let me say, for, let me say, energy transition and also well positioned in the various market and at this price, frankly speaking, it's a waste of money to sell from my point of view, have described more shares.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] Gentlemen, there are no more questions registered at this time.

[Marco Bianconi, executive]

Okay. So thank you very much for your interest in Cementir Holding, and we wish you a pleasant rest of your day meeting. Bye-bye.

[Operator]

Ladies and gentlemen thank you joining, the conference is now over. You may disconnect your telephone.