Brunello Cucinelli SpA

MIL:BC

Good evening, Chorus Call operator speaking. Welcome to the presentation of the first quarter '21 revenues of the Brunello Cucinelli Group. [Operator Instructions] The speakers will be Brunello Cucinelli, President, Executive Chairman and Creative Director; Moreno Ciarapica, CFO; and Pietro Arnaboldi, Head of Investor Relations.

[Operator Instructions]

And now, I'd like to give the floor to Brunello Cucinelli. The floor is yours.

So here we are. Good evening. It is always a pleasure to speak to you, although it's -- the last meeting dates back to just a month ago. It is always very interesting to hold these calls. So analysts, investors and journalists. Just over a month ago, we met.

We -- in this call that we consider very, very important. And we still call it the call of the rebirth of the renaissance following just over a year of pain and sorrow for us, body and soul and the spirit. And in this call -- in that call, besides the financial statements 2020, we basically showcased our idea for the resumption of activities and the projects for the coming decades. But today's call, you see, we would like to call it the call of style and taste of Brunello Cucinelli, and you'll understand why later on.

For the coming decades, trying to envisage the large opportunities that this brand can offer us. So before we start, we'd like to tell you that in this vaccine hub that we opened about 25 days ago, in the park of beauty, for those who know Solomeo, where the foundation and the company only provide the location and the wages for the nurses and doctors. So we are vaccinating unfortunately, at quite as normal kind of pace and rate. But the hope is that starting from next week with the arrival of new vaccines, we can really reach at night many vaccines. And also we can have night shifts too because we have all the lights -- night lights in this location.

And I think that I said to the doctors, there will definitely be young people who want to be vaccinated even at 3 a.m. in the morning. Of course, first of all, we -- it's compulsory. We follow the age standard, the age criterion because it's very important, our President of the Republic on December 31 and the end of the year speech and address, he said let us all be vaccinated when it is our turn.

Of course, if we finish 1 day earlier, we have saved the human lives, and we also have gained 1 day to resume our business. So as usual, we are here in Solomeo, and we are -- we have all been at work in-presence physically since May 3, 2020. And in the end, we only closed for only 6 weeks. I'm very happy with that because I think that the work we carried out together in the factory in the offices, on the one hand, this brings about a very powerful collective creativity. I really believe in this. Then a very clear-cut distinction between time for work and time for private life.

And perhaps also the corporate culture is strengthened as a result, and it becomes an important lesson for the young generations. So together with me, I am the Executive Chair and Creative Director since April last year, and I have my 67 years of age with me. Then there are the usual people, Riccardo and Luca, the young 40-year-old young CEOs that were appointed precisely a year ago.

And I have to say, Luca, Riccardo, it couldn't have been a better situation just to start your stellar highly responsible -- response career. We are very, very happy with you, and we say this publicly, thank you on behalf of the whole company. And I hope also on behalf of the whole financial community and the whole Solomeo community. I'm sure about that. And not just because of your expertise, but also for your human qualities that we attach a lot of value to in order to see, build better people.

And then we have Moreno here, 59 years of age, not so young anymore, has always been stalked on a daily basis by his young and passionate serious CEO -- co -- Dario, co-CFO. And if everything goes according to plan, as soon as Moreno ends his mandate, he will be the young -- new young CFO, so that Moreno will become his senior advisor according and pursuant to the Generation Pact that we signed over 10 years ago. So this -- the idea is that once you turn 60, you become a senior advisor.

And then we have Pietro, you all know him. He's 45, 46 years of age. And in a few months' time, he will be moving into his new house here in Solomeo with his family. As you know, we attach a lot of importance to the young people settling down in our community.

40 years ago, the Solomeo hamlet had more or less 350 people. Today, 900. We like this healthy cultural growth of the territory. And we believe that this really is the sap for the company and for its culture in the decades to come. Hopefully, the company can stay here at least for 1 century.

And then we have Giuseppe, our 50-year-old serious esteemed lawyer, who always checks that everything is according and pursuant to the legal, human and behavioral regulations. You see I really wanted to highlight once again the top level staff that hopefully will keep running this company for the 20, next 20, 30 years. And of course, this does not involve me-too many years ahead. And I don't know about you Moreno, either.

So we would like to structure the call as follows: You see -- I think it's a very important call. First of all, I'll read out the highlights of the first quarter 2021. We are very, very happy with. Actually, also the first quarter 2020 was not bad at all for our company.

I'd like to remind you that for our company, only the second quarter was very negative in 2020. The remaining 3 quarters were positive compared to the same time the previous year. And then I will give you our take on the world market, very honestly, very positive today. Then I will restate once again the highlights of '21 and '22. And we will also add 2023 to the equation because 2023 represents the closing year of the first half of the 10-year plan, '19-'28, where we would like to take stock of the situation at the end of the halfway through in 2023. And then I'd like to devote some important time to the identity of the Brunello Cucinelli brand. I'll read out to the figures now.

So all these figures I'm about to say are vis-à-vis 2020 and then 2019. So in comparison to 2020, net revenues, EUR 164.6 million, plus 5.1%, at constant, but current exchange rate, plus 7% in constant exchange rates. Performance by geography, Europe, 3.9%; Italy, minus 3.6%; Americas, minus 4.8%; Asia, plus 28.9%. Performance per distribution channels. Retail 11.5% plus; wholesale, plus 0.4%. And now vis-à-vis March 2019. This is really fundamental figures for us.

First quarter 2021 reported an increase of 2.86% at current exchange rates and 3.3% at constant exchange rates. Powerful growth in Asia, 80%; sound performance in America, 4%; and Europe, plus 1.5%; and then we called a limited drop in Italy, minus 17%, but we have many tourists. Then both sales channels were up with the retail increasing by 3.2%; and wholesale, up 2.2%.

And that's how I call these results. It is with a feeling of great positivity that we disclose our results achieved in the first quarter of this year, which we have defined as the year rebalancing. It was a very, very positive quarter, which indicates a gradual return to normality in daily life with a strong desire for healthy planning.

The taste that the brand represents is -- at this moment in time is currently generating a strong consensus that translates into important national awards that honor our company, our culture, our land and all of us.

The more-than-satisfying performance of spring collection sales and the sizable quantity of orders in the portfolio for autumn/winter, the coming one, with the resulting excellent feedback of the world press on our collections make us envisage a year 2021, with an excellent growth in turnover of between 15% and 20%. We also see a solid increase in sales for the year 2022, namely around 10%.

Now a couple of words on the world markets. So the Asian market performed very, very well. And for us, it accounts for 22% of revenues and you know nearly everything about this. What I find very interesting, Luca is what Michael that our President in China said, the Chinese consider their country to be the safest in the world. Of course, obviously, perhaps this year, we will not travel, but it is very understandable what they say.

So America, very well, 32% for us and a lot of inspiration for the product too. They also, Ramin was saying in the member of board, he said that they too consider their country to be the safest. And I have to say that in America, you feel this great craving for physicality, with on top of it, the desire to do many, many things, and it is out of doubt that there will be an important return to movement and interaction.

In the American destination places, a lot of events are being planned. Great in multi-mono brands, and we are ready for these Americans who will not travel much. Europe is worth 45 points for us. And there's no doubt that there is a lot of brewing on because every day, day-by-day, we are waiting. A new beginning is just around the corner. But we -- what we say is that Eastern Europe very, very well with Russia rising. In the rest of Europe, there is a great difference between the boutique located in the big cities, more choice there, and those in the small, medium-sized cities and towns with local customers.

And the beautiful multi-brands have a lot of value. They work a lot with new system of local clients because they send the goods to their home with private exclusive appointments, and honestly speaking, that this way of working is already very much well-established in our stores, too.

But we believe that it will be a very valid formula also for the time to come. For example, if you don't have time, I can send you home a few garments that you can try on. Honestly, I am among those who think that my country is the safest. And as a matter of fact, we now prefer to travel in our own country. This is the natural instinct of human beings.

Whether you talk to -- well, new projects are mentioned regarding at least the coming 3 years. And this really is very strongly felt. And this gives us a lot of energy. Company medium to short-term projects, '21, '22, '23 are basically all secured and also planned.

So now I want to provide you with all this highlights of the coming years, '21, '22, '23. '21 and '22, you already know, we have added '23 because it's April already. So that's the right way to proceed. For '21, we envisage revenues rising between 15% and 20% vis-à-vis 2020.

And 3% to 7% vis-à-vis 2019 and EBITDA around 13% and 14%. For 2022 and '23, we would like to grow of around 10% a year with a new balance in EBITDA around 17%, which means that at the end of 2023, you see we will have achieved what we imagine -- envisaged in 2019. That's why there is a slight higher growth in the coming years.

What we would like to do? Well, investments wise, in commercial and productive, production between 7% and 8% of revenues, then investments in communication you see, as usual, is always between 5.4% and 5.7%. Net financial position will improve. And from next year onwards, we'd like to go back to a dividend policy of 50% of that income. We never achieved that. Maximum was 45%.

So now in the coming 10 minutes, I'd like to talk about the product because at the very young end, you will understand why. First of all, because we have time. We already mentioned many things a month ago, but you see I am really keen on the product because it is something that gives us the opportunity to envisage the coming 30, 40 years. This is going to be the tenth fiscal year since the listing in 2012, and we're very happy with the listing. I've always said that.

The 44th year of our heritage, but actually, we want to consider it the first year of the new cycle for the next 50 years. So at the end of 2020, we took stock of our situation, who we are, what we did in terms of -- from the economic, financial and sustainability point of view, but especially in terms of style and taste because that's what matters the most.

So -- and we said, what is the taste and identity of the Brunello Cucinelli brand. So we analyzed all this after the end of the sales campaign winter '21, last March. At the beginning of the great restart as if we were about to tackle a new cycle in mankind.

Just 1 minute of your time to tell you where we started from with our brand. My dream as a young man was always that -- since when I started, was that of identifying and matching my name to a very precise and clear taste. So what did I want to do? I want to do made in Italy, clothing, high-quality, I wanted to have luxury and exclusive product, something that you never throw away, but you actually hand over -- hand on to your future generations.

High craftsmanship and quality and with a sporty-chic luxury taste and a no-logo product, too. No logo because I did tell you the story of when I was modeling for Ellesse. And the owner, this very fascinating Mr. Servadio, we have -- we struck up a friendship when we grew up. So he had this #1 company, 1982, [ Fila ] was their competitor, the important ski and -- skiers.

And then he said, Brunello, can you tell me why this product is not going so well, it's not doing so well? And I said to him, "You know, Leonardo, it's difficult to tell you, but you should have the courage to remove your logo," which was a half tennis ball, orange in color.

Well, actually, I have always believed that if you can create a style, it will last for centuries, and style can be only created through clothing. Edward VIII, the Prince of Wales after the First World War and after the [ 1819 ],the end of the Spanish flu. He started arguing that they should try to dress better, to rediscover the way of dressing up. And still today, the kind of taste is recognizable and charming even 1 century down the road.

When I started this business, I drew inspiration from the great names of worldwide clothing and fashion that were able to create a taste recognizable over time. That's precisely what I wanted. Just a few names of the very beginning.

There was a Japanese genius of Yohji Yamamoto with the most fascinating shapes that I have ever met, then of course, I drew inspiration from the Great Italian Master, Giorgio Armani; and also the magnificent French [ Maison, ] Chanel, it's been there forever. And more than anybody else, my source of inspiration was Ralph Lauren, who was able to create loads of beautiful products but especially, he was able to create a unique way of doing visual merchandising, and it was always a source of inspiration for me.

I went to see him in 2019 in New York. We exchanged pleasantries, and we took a picture together, and we were both very moved. He was the true inspiration for me. And then I could really list a very -- never-ending number of great fashion designers, we drew inspiration from. Because inspiration is a good thing, but copying is not something I like, never.

And I'd like to thank all these fashion designers for their inspiration. In the past 10 years, I would say that things have gone pretty well. We have a very clear-cut image of our brand. And we have a very important strong ties with our places where we work and live, Solomeo. And hopefully, we can organize a dinner together. Solomeo, we have called it the hamlets of cashmere and harmony. Well, you know a lot about Solomeo, but I hope that you can come to dinner, maybe end of June, July.

So creativity. I have always believed that you need to have a young team who has the courage to listen, especially what the market did not appreciate. Sometimes you say, you see, I was too ahead and the market did not understand. You see, I like acting as a Creative Director of the team. And at the same time, I keep saying that I want to vouch for everything that comes out of the Solomeo factory, both in terms of product and style and communication and way of behavior. I have always maintained that as you get old, as you become elderly, you lose parts of your creativity.

I'm sure about that, especially the most sort of, so to speak, edgy creativity, but that is vital to make your brand fascinating. But what happens is that your taste strengthens and you never lose that. So still today, if I see something, I really like to voice my opinion on the taste. In the past few years, we received from the international present from our partners, really a plethora of acknowledgments regarding the recognizability of the brand.

Of course, all this has always honored us and has given us the strength to keep believing in our style and taste and its contemporary character. In the last 3 or 4 years, these acknowledgments have basically turned into great recognitions. In 2018, the New York Times published a piece by the great fashion expert, Guy Trebay, a very demanding guy, but a very nice guy, who highlighted a comparison between me and my great master, Ralph Lauren. And in the very same piece, he called us Brunello Cucinelli is the favorite brand of the coolest CEOs in the world. And this was a great, huge honor for us.

In December 2019, GQ U.K. appointed me the second person among the top, most elegant men in the world. And you see why are you saying that? Because I really wanted to talk about the recognizability of the brand. And GQ U.K. wrote, the tycoon of cashmere is the man that the billionaires of technology go to like Jeff Bezos, when they need to understand how to dress well. And it seems also when they need to understand how to behave as good citizens. It is not a surprise that this very same Cucinelli surprises us all.

And last, in December 2020, Telegraph U.K. Yes, we should build the monument to the Americans and the British. They defined me the most stylish man of the last 10 years. Did you hear my pronunciation because now I -- every day, 2.5 hours of English lesson. And by December, I will be speaking English when I come to see you in December at London and New York, I hope I can really exchange a few words with you in English. And the comment by the Telegraph was, the man -- the stylish man of last 10 years. Of course, this gives us a lot of strength.

The journalist said, you might not have heard yet about the titan of the Fashion, Italian titan of fashion, Cucinelli, who runs his eponymous luxury brand from the very tiny hamlet, he owns in Umbria, Solomeo, but his approach to clothing has become one of the most influential over the years. The unrivaled quality and the concept of combining smart and casual are his pillars, and he left his mark all over the world of men's wear.

Of course, it does help that the 67 year is the best spokesperson of his brand by embodying himself Italian elegance and refinement. And we thank the Telegraph for that.

So what did we do? We have tried at different times to understand the reasons of these very important acknowledgments. So statistically speaking, we think that the fact that we do not believe in having a lot of carryovers and evergreen makes content collections more contemporary. You know, and I say it once again, if I have my blue blazer on today, but it's not the same as 2 years ago. It is 1.5 centimeter longer. So I've always believed in this. We do not believe in evergreen.

We are definitely out in the lookout for something that is fresh and new. And this is the pure meaning of fashion. We are very happy that we have associated the brand to Solomeo. And we believe that this has brought about a lot of fashion for the brand -- sorry, of charm for the brand. A few years ago, together, we were talking about the family foundation project to support the hamlet and it's -- the outskirts, the project for beauty that you are familiar with, when we tore down all those warehouses.

Today, we believe that this is very much linked to the very big, highly debated topic of sustainability that we call living and working in harmony with creation. So to support all this a few days ago in London at Harrods, a beautiful department store as you know. And they basically asked us to do that, and we were very pleased. So we opened this space that we call of soft furnishings or home wares with candles, pillows, tableware, just right adjacent to do but -- to but this isn't immortal brands, Hermès and Dior.

Unfortunately, I only had a chance to see a picture of this space, but I like it very much because I think that it really represents us to the end.

Before coming to a conclusion, we would like to highlight once again the most important concept in the world. And I will keep telling you till the end, marketing is important, but having a contemporary product is vital. So to conclude, we were really keen on highlighting once again the value of the brand because this is the first year of the next 50 years.

We are very much convinced that the value of the brand represents something that offers great opportunities in the years to come. We can definitely envisage the manufacturing of eyewear fragrances, homeware and many other things. Because we have the brand. Today, we do have the brand, we think. But we should always remember that each and every one of these is a different kind of trade. We are working after a tense year, we are working with high concentration, focus and serenity.

You know that from the very beginning, we have had 2 doctors in the company, who basically test everybody coming from the outside and all the employees so that we could all work full-time and with a better -- in a better mood.

In the company, we can feel an atmosphere and of rebirth, maybe thinking that the worst is over. And by the way, we really need -- we have really a big desire to meet again, smiles, shake our hands. How long has it been since we haven't laughed. I haven't been laughing for a year, maybe a few smiles, but not really good laugh.

So thank you once again for listening to us for your time. We really wanted to walk you through this topic of product because a month ago, we went into detail about our business.

So thank you very much. Now we are open for questions whenever you want, you can call us. And hopefully, we can meet again soon.

[Operator Instructions]

First question from the Italian conference call, Flavio Cereda-Parini, Jefferies.

You are in England, so you are ahead of us. 3 questions. In the first quarter, what percentage of your stores in Europe is close or not normally running and operating normally? Secondly, I saw in the presentation that you changed the way you classified your revenues, if you can tell us what these changes are. And then the Harrods department store, I saw it, and it's very nice. But don't you have anything similar in mind elsewhere?

Well, I'll start from the last question. You see, this is a project that has been in the pipeline for a long time. They asked us, and we had a good space, that's where we started there. But the plan is to always have these corners in our -- both in our own stores and also the department stores. We really are happy with it because it really needs to represent the taste of the brand. Because at the end of the day, maybe the turnover won't be large with cushions and pillows and candles, but it really helps the image and the identification of the brand, as Ralph Lauren told me.

Then as far as the closed stores in Europe, I would say 25%, 27% of the stores. Because sometimes it was red zone was closed. Then in orange zone. But what I'm saying is that you see we have had some positive unexpected results compared to a year ago. And from September, October, we have a new system that is working properly.

The small stores in the second-tier cities like Hamburg, Düsseldorf and Berlin, for example, you see local customers are very, very interesting. And I have to say that what is happening in my view is the desire -- is something that is felt in the U.S. as it was felt in China last year. As soon as you open, you see people wanting the feel, the craving to enter the store. And then the -- so that's the way we did it, Flavio.

So we would like to have a U.S. market, 30%, 32%. Europe, apart from Italy and then Asian market. Just to give you 3 important geographies in the world. Of course, from there, you can see that in 3 or 4 years' time, we would really like for the Asian market to reach 30%, 32%. The -- and then maybe Europe can reach 40%.

And if you want some more detail, we can provide you with that. The only thing with it, we excluded Italy. Italy on paper is slightly more -- slightly weaker because we are dependent on tourism.

Next question from Francesca Di Pasquantonio, Deutsche Bank.

I have a question on the online business. Because it is very much highlighted in your press release, the fact that customers, consumers want to go back into physical stores. And the online is stable at 5%. So my question is, do you think that this trend is happening whereby the online after the boom in 2020 is becoming less interesting for consumers.

Yes. It's a very good question. Of course, I am fascinated by the physical world. Last year, our online reached the 3 to 5, a good increase. But I am convinced that, first of all, it is very important to showcase the product, the physical. So even when we -- sorry, the online website. So maybe I'm very much convinced that it is important to showcase the product to have a proper website. And I think that the online is still going well because, especially in Europe, there's no way you can travel.

And I'm convinced that you can feel it in America, the great desire you see they want the stores that opened, they're full of traffic, there is the need for the physical store.

What I say, Francesca, is when you buy something online, now, of course, talking about maybe you see who can tell you how this maybe coat, whether it fits you or not, maybe your husband, who else. Whereas, if I buy a beautiful suit, I want maybe a sales person to tell me, well, maybe the pin stripe is better for you. I always say, I went to buy a watch, wristwatch and I was sold 3.

They were so good. You see this sales assist was so good and said, well, how can you not buy [indiscernible] plastic and this and that? And I bought 3 of them. I ended up buying 3. So I repeat what Jeff Bezos said at our place in our home. With -- you see, I cannot create any charm with your -- with my parcel.

I offer you a service, but no emotions, but you see whereas clothing is emotion, but you really need to engage with someone. Someone needs to tell you how that skirt suits you and maybe they advise you that you should maybe match it to a specific blouse. So it seems very important for the product and for sales too. Because it has been an important year for business for everybody online. But I still am a very firm believer in brick-and-mortar stores.

And a follow-up question, if I may.

Yes. We have all the time in the world.

Your opinion on how you see the wholesale distribution world nowadays, sell-in, sell-out?

Well, as you know, I have always been fascinated by the wholesale. The other day, we had a wonderful call with the CEO of Saks in New York with a whole team. They have wonderful projects in the pipeline for that store. They want to move even higher up in the latter of luxury. They want us to work together in the visual merchandising, and also, we want to train -- they want us to train their sales assistants so that they become the brand ambassadors. And I believe this very much.

And lately, Francesca, you see, we have actually realized the great value of the multi-brand in the single individual cities. This is also inspiration. You see I am in love of how they display their goods. I take a look at then on how they basically place us close to what is and to whom. And when they decide to place you beside a specific brand, well, you see if your brand is performing well, then you are flanked by the best brands. And you can really perceive the value of your brand. Just by seeing what they place it besides, I think that this is a very important channel.

You see, France, I am fascinated, but you see we must be. These governments have given us a lot of money, made lots of money available. The banks are very sound. GDP in India, 12%, We, in Europe of 5%. So we cannot not envisage going towards very important coming years.

Of course, France, we need contemporary products. And nobody will convince me of the opposite. If your product is not good enough, your marketing can be great, but your product will be -- and your brand will be doomed.

So in the most toughest year, we designed the best collections in our history. And you might ask why? You see, it is true that last year, we had EUR 31 million of unsold goods. But this idea of non -- having, you see old garments, evergreen or what was left in the store, the fact of showcasing new products. This really has in -- translated into boost for our taste because when you start reusing last year fabrics, last year colors, it goes to the detriments of creativity.

And I have always told you about my friend. I'd just like to tell you about this. There was an exceptional entrepreneur. He bought a boat of shetland wool. He said, it was a bargain, Brunello, a whole shipload of Shetland, half the price. And I said, " You see Mr. [ Fazioli ], you are such a loving person, but you see nobody wants Shetland because it pricks your skin." "Are you sure?" "Yes, I'm sure." You won't believe it, but that ship load of Shetland meant really the end of his business model. You see we can't go against the market. I'm sure about that.

Therefore, the EUR 31 million of unsold goods. I would like to consider it a good choice. What we did with the excess venture for the modernity of the product. And not so much for the income statement, obviously. Well, as a matter of fact, it has been a unique year, definitely. Well, in 43 years, we said this is the only years that we have had a minus 10%. And if this year, we achieve 15% to 20%, we will have caught up.

So the 10-year plan is still the same. So all-in-all, you see, I think that last year, in April, May, I don't think I -- you see -- we didn't think that it would end up so well for us. We are really coming to an end of this pandemic and especially with the vaccines.

Yes, you see in this vaccine hub that we have, the general said, we will send you a lot of vaccines. In that case, we will work at night too because you see, it really means just having 1 day more of vaccines, it means life saved and business. Thank you, Francesca. Thank you.

Next question, Andrea Randone, Intermonte.

I have 2 curiosities. The first one has to do with this positive restart in the United States. If you can give us a bit more details. For example, which cities? If it's more menswear or womenswear? And if you have changed your approach vis-à-vis the customers? So this is the first question.

And the second one is more technical. You have a good business with Russia. There has been a lot of turbulence in the exchange rates. I'd like to know whether you adjusted the prices accordingly?

I'll start from the last. As usual, when we come out with our collections in January and July, July, we set the exchange rates. So every 6 months, first of all, because we have half wholesale and half retail, so we can't change prices halfway through. Otherwise, the wholesale retailers would not understand. So they pay a bit more, but we have fixed exchange rates.

Then as far as the U.S. is concerned, it is not true that it's been 2 weeks. I would say 5 weeks, Luca, right? Already in early March there was. And this -- it all started from the resorts to then also in Miami, New York, they say, that in New York, September 1, 95% of the inhabitants will have gone back to the cities.

So if you allow me, we see there's some sort of widespread phenomenon. Do you remember, last year, when the Chinese reopened at the end of April? There was that time of craving, and we can perceive this in America now.

And in Europe too, even though stores are closed, you see that I can send you the goods home, you can go the private appointment. Really, there is a lot of positivity. Men and women, well, I would say both menswear and womenswear. We are really reaping success for womenswear. For all the things that we were saying about the brand, for example, what Ramin was saying in the Board meeting, there is the need to dress well, chic and modern for every kind of event. And no more loungewear because we are fed up with it. Now we are starting to wear, maybe a double-breasted blazer with the Denim, and it's special, then you envisage how you will -- are going out in the summer.

It is very positive, maybe also because last year, I wouldn't have expected. Yes, somebody -- some industries have lost a lot. You see when they say the fashion was hardly very hard hit. I don't think so, some other industries lost much more. So we are much more in positive territory than other industries and segments, but there is a desire. You see as we can't wait ourselves to go to the restaurants.

And then will -- have you maybe read the interview 3 -- 2, 3 days ago with the Pfizer -- the President of Pfizer. The Greek Jewish guy, and he basically released an interview where he said, why does Pfizer say those things? Of course, they believe in it. They said in May, you will be flooded by vaccines. In September, it will be really -- we will be out of the tunnel. So I'm really very confident.

You will see we will hold -- we will have a dinner party. I'm sure about that.

Next question, Guido Lucarelli, BNP Paribas.

With first question on the retail, up 3% on 2019. Can you give us a few indications in terms of nationalities, which nationalities are above or below this value, who is doing better or worse? The second question, retail, what was the trend in your customer mix from the beginning of the pandemic, in particular, the tourist expenditure? Were -- are there any consumers that you were able to maintain, even though they couldn't travel.

And finally, about online. You spoke this many times about the importance of wholesale for your company. Do you -- you were talking about physical wholesale. Do you shared the same view on online wholesale for example, a model like Farfetch could be more advantageous?

I'll start from the first question. Generally speaking, as we saw there, except for maybe Paris, London and Milan are struggling the most. But they have adopted this system, although London is starting again. So there is a general positivity in Asia, Europe, America, Russia was positive the whole year.

Then as far as the retail, this is a bit more complicated. Well, we obviously have a pretty high ticket. But they are all in the lookout for special garments. That's for sure. The most beautiful items are really the most sold regardless of the price.

Of course, it does not mean that you can attach any price you want to them, but it's very interesting. Then as to the online, as I was saying to Flavio, we believe in it, and I also believe in whole -- online, wholesale, like we do for our online, but the physical store will really play a very high role for the very same reason. Who advises you if you shop online? Who do you compare to?

When I was young, when I was 30 or so, I went to this great store in New York, Ralph Lauren store. And there were 3 or 4 sales assistants that were so good. You see I remember, going back home with my suitcase is full. And I was in fashion, but look at this combined with that.

So can online give you that? No, online, you would need people suggesting things for you. So I'm always very much convinced about the importance of the physical store.

So you spoke about Paris, London and a Milan struggling. I imagine because there's a lack of tourists?

Yes. So these are the cities that struggle the most because they usually have a lot of tourists. Well, I find it very, very interesting. You see local consumers. You see, I believe that it will be a year when everybody will shop locally because otherwise, how can China grow 50% because Americans will go on holiday in America, the Chinese say that China is the safest place. And we, Europeans, I will go on holiday in Italy, truth be told. I feel the safest here. And also, even if I go to somewhere where everybody is vaccinated, this is the way human beings are. We are so much craving for shopping but this is true for the Chinese, Europeans, everybody. It is a shared feeling. We want to go back to life.

Next question, Paola Carboni, Equita.

One question on the channel mix. Just to understand the performance of wholesale in the first quarter. And I compared it with the guidance a few months ago on the very positive order collection performance. Has -- was there maybe a postponement in terms of delivery? So that very positive is flat now. But will there be an acceleration?

Paola, it is not flat. It is not flat because you have to look at the Nordstrom and Dubai conversion. You see, it is a very good result. If you can see that the conversion and the channel mix on the year. Well, we enjoyed a great fall/winter season, too. So we have orders in house. Pietro can give you more detail on this. If you basically exclude Nordstrom and Dubai, you will see the wholesale performed very, very well this season.

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Mr. Cucinelli, no questions for the time being.

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[Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]