Global Dominion Access SA

MAD:DOM

Earnings Call Analysis

Company Navigates Restructuring to Maintain Growth

In the first nine months, the company experienced an 8% increase in sales to EUR 851 million, fueled by sustainable practices and organic growth above strategic commitments. EBITDA grew by 14%, or 21% considering recurrent business, showing strong operational margins. Despite increased funding costs and restructuring expenses, which subtracted EUR 6.5 million from the service contribution margin, net income stood at EUR 27.3 million. Looking ahead, the company plans to further simplify, achieving a recurring EBITDA target of EUR 150 million and adapt its capital allocation towards reducing debt and focusing on infrastructure investments with higher returns.

Robust Performance Amidst Economic Headwinds

In the complex tapestry of 2023, marked by geopolitical tensions and rampant inflation, the company stands resilient with a remarkable sales growth of nearly 10%, and impressive double-digit profitability growth. Managing its resources prudently, it prioritizes activities with more added value, like sustainability projects, which inevitably led to better profitability. The company's commitment to a sustainable, taxonomic business manifested in a managed EBITDA growth of 21%, exclusive of one-offs, demonstrating strong operational margins in spite of inflationary pressures.

Strategic Restructuring and Value-Oriented Divestitures

Strategic restructuring such as the downsizing of Phone House inflicted an impact of EUR 6.5 million accounted as one-off costs that reduced service contribution margins. However, these actions align with the company's formidable strategy to centralize on value-adding B2B services, thereby promising to enhance future value.

Continued Expansion and Project Pipeline Growth

The organic growth is reported to be 6.5%, surpassing the strategic commitment of 5%, with a blend of geographic diversification and inorganic growth. The focus lies on sustainable services, the bedrock of the company's defense framework, ensuring recurrent revenue streams. The project segment, although experiencing a slower growth rate than services at 3%, takes pride in its robust pipeline valued at EUR 641 million, including cutting-edge projects like the first photovoltaic project with batteries in the Dominican Republic.

Infrastructure Investments and Selective Divestitures

With stakes worth EUR 11 million in business figure and nearly EUR 7 million in EBITDA, the company reflects active engagement in infrastructure, particularly in renewable energy projects like the Valdecarretas farm. The divestiture strategy, exemplified by the anticipated divestiture in Cerritos, is entrenched in the company's guidance, balancing liquidity generation with strategic investment priorities.

Capital Allocation Prudence and Share Buyback Considerations

A meticulous approach is adopted in capital allocation, weighing each investment against the opportunity cost. The attractive price of shares spurred a deliberation on buybacks, though the company indicates a preference for reducing debt and funneling resources into infrastructure projects that promise higher returns, aligning with the philosophy of prioritizing investments that exceed the hurdle rates traditionally observed within the company's core business sectors.

Global Operations and Future Guidance

Spanning across diverse regions, the company focuses on select segments while maintaining a disciplined approach to strategic planning. The management’s guidance is underpinned by their confidence in the resilience of their recurrent business model and an anticipated EBITDA guidance of EUR 150 million for the year is maintained even with progressing strategic divestitures and investments.

Earnings Call Transcript 2023-Q3

[Operator]

Good afternoon, everybody, and welcome to the presentation about Dominion.

Before starting, I would like to remind you that once we -- the presentation is over, and as usual, we will move on to the Q&A session. [Operator Instructions]. Let's start with the presentation. We have Roberto Tobillas, who's the Director General; and Patricia Berjon, who is the Director of Corporate Development.

[Patricia Berjon, executive]

Hello everybody, and thank you for joining this presentation in the first 9 months of the year 2023. But before moving on to the specific figures, there are several elements that define the context in which these events have taken place, and I think that have to be taken into account, elements that in most instances applied to all companies and to society and that each company manages and addresses in a different manner.

We're living in a complex environment from many points of view and this complexity does not only continue, but is increasing, for instance, with the recent outbreak of the conflict between Israel and Hamas on October 7. And all events are never isolated, but rather, they have lots of interdependencies that transfer the effects to whatever is geopolitical, demographic, social or economic.

And for several quarters, our attention has focused on the high level of inflation, and therefore, the increase in interest rates. And this is going to produce a recession, which seems to be the most announced of history and which is arriving rebate. This has effect on the psychology of consumers on access to funding on investment decisions, and this obviously has an effect on our accounts with an increase in financial expenses that I will talk about later on. So therefore, we think that it's important to consider that in this context, our activity should have sales growth of nearly 10% and profitability growth of double digit and as well as a pipeline that is to be developed in the future years that is going to grow.

And this is possible, thanks to the solidity and resilience of our different businesses. And what is very crucial, we have to consider our continuous management of each one of these items, which allows us to adapt continuously to market realities. But how do we do this? What is this management all about by focusing on activities with more added value, and therefore, those that generate bigger margins vis-a-vis those activities that are less profitable.

In other words, by using our resources, our staff, our commercial activity, organic and inorganic investment decisions by dedicating them to these activities. However, having divestitures and others. And these activities that have better behavior in terms of profitability and sales are those that are related to sustainability. We want to be a company that's 100% sustainable, we're getting closer to that goal.

The other element that we have to use to make sure that in the future, we do maintain or improve the current levels of profitability is based on restructuring the business units themselves. And one of these restructuring actions have taken place in the first quarter of the year with the downsizing of the Phone House company, as we already mentioned in the previous call.

And this restructuring has extraordinary costs, like indemnities, severance payments that have an impact on the service contribution margin by subtracting EUR 6.5 million. So therefore, we have to bear in mind that the figures that we're going to be analyzing now, we've already included this nonrecurrent cost.

When in the strategic plan, we spoke about sustainability and about simplification, it wasn't just a slogan, but rather, it was a reality that will materialize throughout the next 4 years through restructuring actions, investments and divestitures that we will share with you as they are put into force. And all of this is for the purpose to become the project that is sustainable. We want to be a company that is 100% taxonomic.

But now I'm going to move on to the figures that you've already seen the documentation, and we've closed the first 9 months with a business figure of EUR 851 million, which means that it's 8% more compared to the previous year. And I would like to remind you that we're comparing ourselves with a pro forma figure of 9 months in 2022, some EUR 788 million. What it does is substract from the conservative figure of the sales of electricity of Alterna because this business stopped its operations after the agreement with the Repsol last year.

And if you have any doubts about this pro forma, you can find an attachment of the documentation. But this increase in sales of 8%, 6.5% has to do with organic growth. In other words, this is above our strategic commitment, which was 5%. ForEx has subtracted minus 0.8% and inorganic growth at 2.3%, mainly because of the integration of [ Pedro Yaguez ] in Colombia, [ Festive Ibero ] in Spain and the renewable farms that we own 100%. As you can see, these are 3 elements in the area of sustainability. That is the management of industrial waste, the processing of water in circular economy and the generation of renewables.

As regards EBITDA, we stand in excess of EUR 100 million. And that means 14% growth, including the one-off. And if we pay attention to our recurrent business, it wouldn't be 14%, but rather would be growth of 21%. So we maintained strong operational margins as we already explained in previous quarters, and the central structure of the company is still stable. It weighs 2.4% relative to sales and in spite of the fact that the business has grown and in spite of the inflation, the rigorous management of this cost has maintained these levels.

But now moving on to EBIT, the growth has been absorbed, thanks to amortization items that are higher than what we reported in the 9 months of 2022. These fixed asset amortization totaled something like another EUR 8 million more because of the amortization of the renewable farms we own and also because of the devices of the renting activity and because of the reductions in fixed assets.

But as we mentioned in the previous quarters, in the year, we've had an increase in funding costs, which at 9 months are EUR 15 million higher compared to the same period of '22. However, here, they are set back by a good evolution of the exchange rate. And this means that we have a net financial result of EUR 10 million, which is EUR 10 million higher than what we reported last year.

So with this, we have an attributable net income of EUR 27.3 million, which is 19% more compared to the previous year, and we have reached this figure even in spite of the impact caused by the one-off restructuring action.

But to understand the origin of this growth, let's move on now to the segments themselves. In sustainable services, we reached EUR 596 million in business -- in the business figure, which is a growth of 8.1% in comparable terms compared to the previous 9 months.

And the sustainable transition we've been talking about is like a driver for growth with excellent behavior of the area of environmental services. And also with an evolution in the already existing service contracts that has been very good. We've incorporated new contracts like, for instance, sustainability services for industrial customers in Germany. And as regard to geographies in Latin America, we are still extending contracts in the area that has to do with technologies and telecommunications. This segment maintains an important weight as regards to the business figure, that is 71%, and contributes 50% of the margin. We feel comfortable with this proportion of weights because as we've already mentioned on previous occasion, this is a defensive segment that provides recurrence and resilience to the account.

As regards to the contribution margin and the impact of the EUR 6.5 [ billion ], growth is 4%. In other words, even though -- even if we do bear in mind the impact produced by the restructuring, the margin is -- still has a positive trend. But what this means is that the sustainable service model wouldn't take into account the one-off, it has had a very good quarter. We would have observed a growth of margins of 14% in spite of the inflationary situations. We're maintaining the margin that in recurrence totals 11.9%. And that's the environment of 12% that we've always been talking about and which are over and above those of the sector, which, as you know, are only one digit.

As regards to the 360-product segment, the business figure is EUR 243 million. So there's been a growth of 3% compared to the same period of the previous year. And this growth is lower to that reported in services and lower than what we've seen in previous quarters. And although the execution of some of the projects has been slowed down without any big consequences, there's an important impact on ForEx because the organic growth behind that 3% at a current -- at a constant exchange would have been 5.1%.

So as you can see in the documentation, you see that our pipeline has grown significantly and has reached EUR 641 million. And recently, we've signed a new hospital contract supported by the export credit agency of the United Kingdom, and we're working now on the first photovoltaic project with batteries in the Dominican Republic. As regards to the contribution margin of project, we've reached 20% of the sales. We still have exceptionally high margins or at least most of them could be justified, thanks to the fact that we're present throughout the entire value chain. It's this 360 vision, as we already mentioned in the strategic plan. As we can see -- every quarter, we can see that these margins are improving.

Moving on now to our stakes in infrastructures. In these 9 months, it's EUR 11 million in business figure and nearly EUR 7 million in EBITDA, added on to the traditional business of projects and services, which is associated with the farms where we have a majority stake and which are also in the area of generation. And in this last quarter, we have connected. And therefore, we have to -- and on these assets in generation, we have the Valdecarretas farm with 38 megawatts, which is the first we connected in Spain.

As regards to the rest of the infrastructures and renewable projects, we are still building, we haven't yet initiated any new construction since the previous quarter, and we are developing products that are joining our pipeline. And this pipeline that you can see here, something like 2/3 would be located in Europe and 1/3 in Latin America.

And we are also continuing with liquidity generation operations in line with what our plan says. So that would be a divestiture in Cerritos and you know that we have received several offers, and we are now making progress on that front. And then we have an agreement with the European pipeline in a due diligence process and the reduction of stakes in the American pipeline. There's not much information that we can share in this respect, although we know that they are key elements, but we can say that we are making progress in all of these areas.

Now I've got to finish here. I would like to give you a very brief summary of what I think are the fundamental ideas behind these ideas. So firstly, the business in any case, well, what is fundamental in recurrent terms, the business is growing and it is doing so significantly. There's a slight slowdown of the growth of sales that was associated with the scope of the projects, but we know that these projects are never linear. And the profitability remains strong and it's growing. And there are extraordinary costs that are totally in line with the strategic focus we shared with you through our '23, '26 strategic plan.

And as we understand that the evolution of the stock prices represent a [ concern from -- ] so I would like to make a comment. And I would tell you not to look into the fundamentals of the company and a reason to explain the behavior of the market because the results that we are presenting are very good.

If what we believe is that this behavior is related to the lack of materializing certain operations, of course, they are very relevant. But my message is that all of them are making progress according to the program and that they will happen in the midterm. But bear in mind that it's only been 5 months that have gone by since we submitted the current strategic plan.

And I'm finished with this. Thank you very much for your attention. And now we're going to move on to your questions.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions]. Firstly, it's Miguel Gonzales from [indiscernible] Capital.

[Miguel González Toquero, analyst]

Hello. Good afternoon. Can you hear me?

[Roberto Tobillas Angulo, executive]

Yes, we can hear you loud and clear.

[Miguel González Toquero, analyst]

Thank you very much. I have 3 questions and the first has to do with your guidance for the year because you've been talking about EUR 150 million in EBITDA. So that would mean something like EUR 50 million for Q4, and I think that this would account for somewhat more than 40% of growth compared to the previous year. And as I assume that this would include the capital gains that you could also have because of the agreement that you signed with [indiscernible] and CMI in the Dominican Republic. Could you please say something about the components behind this growth in Q4?

Then my second question has to do with Valdecarretas and you've already mentioned this because you've commissioned Valdecarretas. You have 80% of the stakes there. But have any partners joined this project? I think did you have this 80% from the very beginning or something that I can't remember?

And I would also like to know what's going on in the search for a new partner like CMI in Europe? And then the typical question now, could you give us the debt figure, excluding projects or with the project as of September? Or could you give us an idea of CapEx has evolved in the infra projects?

[Roberto Tobillas Angulo, executive]

Sorry, I'm [indiscernible]. I'm sorry, I didn't hear that third question. My name is Robert, by the way. I'm sorry, could you repeat the third question, please?

[Miguel González Toquero, analyst]

Yes, of course, Robert. Well, no, it's about debt. Could you please say something about debt with and without projects? Or how the CapEx has evolved with these projects?

[Roberto Tobillas Angulo, executive]

Valdecarretas, we have 80%. So this is funding that we carried out with senior and with the Banco de Sabadell. And they have a formal stake of 99.9% because they were also lenders, but, let's say, that they also own 20%. So we still have 80/20. Valdecarretas has been in operation since July. And I'd say that, well, since our infrastructure plan was established, we want to hand these projects to -- over to OTP. And this is what [ Simio ] want to do with our permission, and we want to carry out a complete divestiture or end up as a minority stake of that as regards to Valdecarretas.

[Miguel González Toquero, analyst]

What about the debt with and without projects?

[Roberto Tobillas Angulo, executive]

Well, there are no major variations with respect to what we had as of June because the company is business as usual. So we are still investing in development in Italy and Spain, but all of this is being funded with the usual resources of the company and not with a specific funding. And it's true that in Valdecarretas, we have a project finance loan, but this is not very relevant. And we also have involvement in La Victoria project in the Dominican Republic.

So this, let's say, runs along these lines. As regards to the guidance, in line with what Patricia pointed before, in the first 9 months, we'll be exceeded EUR 100 million. And it's true that we have the EUR 6.5 million from a restructuring of the simplification of the company. And what we want to do is put all of our business into B2B. We wanted to be under this discipline, we think that is going to contribute value in the future and is contributing value now. One never knows what's going to happen in the future, of course. And I'm not sure if it was a [ government ] who said there are 2 kinds of forecasters, those that know that they don't know and those that know that they don't know. What we don't know what's going to happen in this next 2 or 3 months, but it's clear that the company has to be resilient and compared to the previous year, thanks to this resilience, we have to feel optimistic.

And this quarter, with these EUR 150 million in recurrences, we should stand between, I don't know, EUR 40-something million in the last quarter, but one can never tell because we don't have an absolute certainty and projects. In projects, things can be somewhat early or somewhat late, and there could be specific operations, as you pointed out before, with CMI or with Valdecarretas. So when it's sold that could have some additional capital gains that will compensate some of the recurrences.

But in any case, our idea -- and I think that I mentioned this in June. I think that there are no impediments to reach the levels that the guidance have set and what we pointed out in the Capital Markets Day by the end of the year, in other words, in these levels of recurrence. But anyway, you know that prospectively speaking, giving figures is always a complex business. And it's always is difficult. So this is what I can say.

[Miguel González Toquero, analyst]

Thank you very much, Robert. This EUR 40 million for Q4 would be organic without taking into account projects. So the other figure perhaps would include a sale.

[Roberto Tobillas Angulo, executive]

Well, yes, but we have decided to bring this restructuring forward within the strategic plan. And as usual, many times, we're not looking into each quarter separately, but we're looking into the strategic plan and the type of company that we want to have. So what I would say is that we were, let's say, managing a company that in terms of recurrences and normality, it was equal to EUR 150 million in EBITDA. We're running along these lines, however, with this restructuring here, that could make adjustments. So we will be following those lines of action.

[Operator]

We're going to continue with Juan Peña from Gaesco Valores.

[Juan Peña Ruiz, analyst]

Hello. Good afternoon, everybody. I wanted to ask you a couple of questions very quickly. Firstly, regarding the pro forma. And just to understand things properly in 2022, did you eliminate what have had to do with the energy business? That's what I think I understood. And my question is if in 2023, are you including the commission that you charge from Repsol in energy customers because I'd like to know what you're including under each item?

And then as regards to the pipeline, as you say, it has grown a lot. But one of the fears that we have in this context, as Patricia pointed out, something that makes us feel very uncomfortable is that these project pipelines are not executed in full because sometimes, they postpone projects or cancel them.

So how confident are you with this pipeline -- project pipeline? What feeling do you have from the customers? What do you think there are going to be any delays? Or any problems in the implementation or commissioning of these projects?

[Patricia Berjon, executive]

Juan, good afternoon. Regarding the pipeline, you know that we are very cautious. And we're very conservative when we include projects in that pipeline and that when we include them, it's because they have already reached the execution phase or because we know that the execution is going to be carried out.

So we don't really think that there should be any risks with regard to the projects we've been reporting on with the EUR 641 million. We know that they're going to be executed, and it's rather than the opposite. This is giving lots of visibility to our project pipeline for the next few months and for the next few years even. As regards to the pro forma, yes, in the pro forma -- this pro forma figure that we presented for 2022, what it does is subtract from the consolidated figure, the energy business.

And as regards to the commissions we received because of all the new contracts that we acquire over 2023, they have been included and, let's say, that part of these commissions because of the contracts that were transferred were already advanced initially. You have them in the accounts of 2022. And as I say, those had already been included in the 2022 accounts. And the last of the most recent contracts have already been included under the organic and normal activity.

[Roberto Tobillas Angulo, executive]

We -- and -- for the pro forma [indiscernible] last year, we had a residential commercializing firm. And all of those energy sales forma purposes, we've transformed this into B2B. And we've eliminated that for there to be a homogeneous comparison. And as Patricia said, these commissions have been included and they don't have a relevant impact. So that means that we -- let's say, that we have something about more than 1,000 every month in our partnership with Repsol. But this has no relevant effect because it's a 100% margin. And as far as the pipeline is concerned, that's somewhat tricky.

In that pipeline, let's say, that the weight of renewables is relative. And that is on the one hand, we're talking about all of the developments we have, but we are very careful about including in the pipeline.

I know that what we are going to do is going to be carried out. And as regards to security, well, this really has more to do with the timing, although it is true that in the next operations, according to what we said at the Capital Markets Day, you know that there are operations totaling EUR 3 billion or EUR 4 billion if we were to consider the entire future scenario, and our idea is to be pretty active in this process.

So I think that we -- this pipeline has to grow, there could be issues like [indiscernible] or whatever. And we know that this could happen in a period of 5 or 6 years, and we'd have to look into the maturities, but we feel comfortable, and we feel at ease with our current levels of pipeline, and we also feel very optimistic with the future pipeline.

[Operator]

Before we continue with the people that have raised your hand, we're going to view the chat. [indiscernible] is asking us if we could explain our priorities in terms of capital allocation. And with the interest rates, are we going to try to reduce the debt? Are you going to have more growth in terms of infrastructure debt?

[Patricia Berjon, executive]

Wait a minute. Well, as regards -- our priorities with regard to capital allocation, we've mentioned this in the strategic plan, the issue of reducing debt, considering the current interest rates is something that we could give some thought to and as regard to the buyback of shares, but it's something that we've had up and running in the last plan that we closed at the end of July.

And we -- what we're going to do? We're going to wait for a while. We're are going to wait so that we can take certain decisions along these lines because what you do know is that we are looking into these different options. And as we are also looking into investments, as you point out, with regard to infrastructure and other kinds of inorganic investments, many of them have to be specified to a greater extent. But in any case, we'll take decisions as the time goes by when the right time comes to do so.

But I would just like to point out that we are analyzing each of the marginal costs and the opportunity costs of the investments. And of course, we find that the price of the shares is very attractive and we've looked into other options, and I think that we have to send a message that is focused on reducing debt and then infrastructure, well, of course, this -- we have this location that we pointed out that once we had obtained some very interesting [ ones ] in our 360 business with return tickets of 2 digits in something like 10% vis-a-vis the alternatives that the company is generating with [ ones ] where we were talking about something like 20%. This makes us think that yes, we should work along these lines and at a given point in time, obtain additional liquidity in terms of infrastructure and choose a capital allocation for those surpasses.

[Operator]

We're going to continue with Carlos Trevino from Santander.

[Carlos Javier Treviño Peinador, analyst]

I have several questions for you. Firstly, could you please say a little bit more about what's going on with regard to your search for a partner in Europe? How things evolving? Because -- have you got several offers? Are you looking into these offers? Or have you chosen anybody? Or are you open to receiving new proposals?

And I would also like to ask you why is it you haven't closed the operation in Mexico because you said that you had binding offers. But is there any kind of restriction? Or is there any kind of problem there to close the operation? And a very, very easy question now, are the restructuring costs that have to be applied? Or did you apply them more in Q3? And finally, could you give us a little bit more information on the new contracts -- new hospital contracts that you pointed out?

[Roberto Tobillas Angulo, executive]

Carlos, this is Roberto speaking. I'll answer the question. Partners, shortlist and nearly ready to choose one. I'm just going to say that. And yesterday, we held a board meeting. And in Mexico, where we've received expressions and interest and people want this project to be connected. We are -- we think that we're now in the final stage of the situation, and we -- well, there's a slight delay there, but right now, this project in Mexico is going to be postponed just a little bit.

But I'm not worried because I think that we're working along the right lines, it's going to take a little longer. And I'm not very clear in my mind that with this -- well, there are only 2 months for the year to end or perhaps, say, if we have to move into the first Q of last year, that's no problem. And with regards to restructuring, well, most of it announced and what Patricia pointed out, and after the -- all the work that has been done this [indiscernible] our team has worked out well, and there might be some very specific surgery to perform in these 2 months, but it's not very relevant. And I don't really think that it's going to be more than EUR 1 million to give you a figure. And there should be no problem there.

And then you were asking about new hospitals. Well, there's one in Central America with the Export Credit Institute. In other words, we are about to close the funding and that's if we can implement this. But in any case, we have the deadline by the end of the year. But as you know, in Chile, some of these awards are being renegotiated right now. And the conclusion that we've made is that perhaps we are the most eligible and the favorite candidate in the entire universe of all the people that have tried to become involved in that Chile hospital. So it's a favorable situation. But is still pending more negotiations, and it has to be awarded, and we need to have more visibility.

[Carlos Javier Treviño Peinador, analyst]

Robert, just one minor point. This operation in Central America, would that mean that you'd have to invest in equity?

[Roberto Tobillas Angulo, executive]

No, it's a hospital, it's not a farm. It's not a wind farm, sorry. No, it's a hospital.

Okay. Well, let's say this -- it's a 360, without having to use any equity, it's 100% connected.

[Operator]

Okay. We're going to now review the questions that still have to be answered in the chart. And if you want to leave any more questions, so this will be the moment to do so before we finish the connection.

Ignacio [ Mendivil ] says has the [ Encode ] contract had a negative impact on EBITDA and in the quarter year-on-year?

[Patricia Berjon, executive]

Ignacio, well, I understand that you were asking if this has contributed more in Q3 of last year compared to this Q3. Well, yes, because it was more active than this year. And the truth is, I'm not sure about the Q3. But in the first 9 months, it did contribute more than it has contributed this year. And I would say that the Q3 of this quarter compared with the previous one, it has contributed somewhat less.

[Roberto Tobillas Angulo, executive]

Angola was in the final stage, in the conclusion stage and there's a very short way to go. So we are undergoing new negotiations for other projects but I would say that this one has happily been ended and everything is running smoothly.

[Operator]

We're going to continue with another question that comes from [ Davis Dominic ]. It seems that with a pipeline of more than EUR 600 million, there is no problem as regards the demand for 360 projects. But do you think that there's a certain degree of caution? Or do you think that customer -- service customers are stopping their projects?

[Roberto Tobillas Angulo, executive]

No, no, David. No, Patricia, go ahead, please.

[Patricia Berjon, executive]

No. Well, as regards to projects, we already have the visibility with the pipeline. And as you can see, it's very healthy. And this allows us to have growth forecasts for projects. And as regards to services, you can see the data here. Certainly not, services are very strong and there's not only a significant amount of growth because I had some information somewhere that when we spoke about the growth of services, if I'm not mistaken, I was saying that growth was 8.1% in comparable terms.

But this figure of 8.1% that is inorganic, 7.6% is organic. So organically speaking, they're very strong, and they grow in services with high levels of profitability and sustainability and environmental services. And these are the areas that we want to focus on and where we can see that we have a very big commercial success and an execution with healthy margins.

[Operator]

Okay. Let's move on to the last question. [Operator Instructions]

Virginia Pérez from InterMoney says the guidance of EUR 100 million of EBITDA, is it with or without the one-off EUR 6.5 million from the redundancy scheme of Phone House? Or...

[Patricia Berjon, executive]

I think that this was answered by Robert before. But in any case, I would just like to remind you that it's clear that right now, we have this one-off in 9 months because these are costs that have occurred in Q3. And we always try to balance out the negative one-offs with the positive that we could have during the year in such a manner that we always show a figure that is as recurrent as possible because what we want to do is grow that recurrence.

And -- well to talk about the history of the company and also points out the future forecast, in other words, it's telling us what the company is going to be like, and as Robert pointed out before, it's very difficult to establish an exact forecast. But in terms of our guidance is referring to something like EUR 150 million. And for the time being, we have no reason whatsoever to change this guidance.

[Operator]

There are no further questions. So therefore, with this, we'll be closing the call. Thank you very much, everybody, for listening.

[Patricia Berjon, executive]

Thank you very much, and I hope that you enjoy the rest of the afternoon. Thank you. Bye-bye.

[Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]