Hanwha Solutions Corp

KRX:009830

Earnings Call Transcript 2024-Q3

[Operator]

Good afternoon. Thank you for joining the conference call for the earnings results of Hanwha Solutions. The conference will start with a presentation from the company followed by a Q&A. [Operator Instructions] Now we will begin the Hanwha Solutions Earnings Call for Q3 2024.

[An Yoon, executive]

[Interpreted] Good afternoon. I am Yoon, An Sik, CFO of Hanwha Solutions. I would like to thank everyone for joining the call today. I will brief you on the business performance, financials and outlook by segment of Hanwha Solutions for Q3 '24.

First, the company's performance during the third quarter of 2024. Please refer to Page 8 of the presentation. The consolidated sales of Q3 '24 increased by 4% Q-on-Q to KRW 2,773.3 billion, thanks to increased sales of power generation asset development of renewable energy.

The consolidated operating profit recorded a smaller loss compared to the previous quarter at negative KRW 81 billion due to improved profitability of power generation asset development of renewable energy.

Pretax profit was negative KRW 370.3 billion and net income negative KRW 387.7 billion.

Please refer to the bottom of Page 8 for detailed performance by segment.

Please turn to Page 9 for financials. As of the end of the third quarter, the total assets for nonfinancial businesses increased by KRW 3,741.2 billion from the end of last year to KRW 27,251.6 trillion. The cash and cash equivalents increased by KRW 53.4 billion from the end of last year to KRW 2,135.4 trillion. The liabilities for nonfinancial businesses increased by KRW 3,265.2 billion from the end of last year to KRW 17,500.3 trillion and the debt increased by KRW 3,098 billion. The net debt increased by KRW 3,044.6 billion to KRW 10,312.5 billion.

As of the end of Q3 '24, the liabilities to equity ratio for nonfinancial businesses increased by 27 percent points to 184%, and the net debt-to-equity ratio has increased by 28 percentage points to 108%.

Next, performance by segment for Q3 '24. First, renewable energy. The size of loss was reduced in Q3 with the sales of power generation asset development and better profitability in EPC to record a negative KRW 41 billion. With the increase in module sales volume and power generation asset sales and increase in EPC sales, we expect to turn around. For Q4, we expect the sales associated with the power generation asset sales to be KRW 1.2 trillion.

Next, on Chemicals. For Q3, the segment recorded operating loss of KRW 31 billion. This is due to the sluggish market and increase in freight charge coming from continued economic slowdown. During Q4, the pressure from the freight charge would be somewhat relieved, but we expect the loss would continue as we enter into the traditional low season towards the end of year with weak market continued as well as regular turnaround.

Next, Advanced Materials. The operating profit declined by 32% Q-on-Q to record KRW 6.1 billion due to summer vacations of major customers. We expect the operating profit to improve in Q4 as the effect from the customers' vacations would expire.

Next, on equity method. During Q3, the equity method earnings continued to show losses due to the impact of the high-cost raw material input caused by the decline in international oil price. In Q4, we expect the losses to decrease as the effect of the high-cost raw material input phase along with the stabilization of the international oil price.

This concludes the earnings briefing. Thank you.

[Operator]

[Foreign Language] [Operator Instructions] The first question will be presented by Jin Ho Lee from Mirai Asset Securities.

[Jin Ho Lee, analyst]

[Interpreted] So 2 questions. And first question is about the EPC and the sales of the power generation development asset development. And according to the performance for this quarter about these 2 items, it seems that the number is smaller than the guidance that you have shared previously. So I would like to understand where is the discrepancy coming from? And if it's coming from the sales of the power generation asset development, will that be referred to -- deferred to -- the following quarter, Q4?

The next question is about there is a report that the chipset would include the wafer for the solar panel. And will that be also the case for Hanwha Solutions?

[Unknown Executive]

[Interpreted] So let me first respond to your first question about the EPC and the sales of the power generation assets. As you have mentioned, the guidance that we have provided for the third quarter was KRW 800 billion, but our actual was smaller than that with KRW 578.5 billion.

And the reason for the differential or the discrepancy is, as you have mentioned, project deferment. So that will be deferred to the Q4. So we will have the same guidance for the whole year of '24, which is KRW 2.5 trillion. What was short for Q3 will be completely fulfilled in Q4.

[Unknown Executive]

[Interpreted] So let me respond to your question about chipset. And our understanding will be no different than your understanding or the market's understanding, is that in the chipset 48D, the solar panel wafer will be included as a semiconductor. And as we have made investment in the U.S. about the solar wafer, we'll have to wait and see as to the future development, but I hope that it will work in our favor.

[Operator]

[Foreign Language] The next question will be presented by Jae Sung Yoon from Hana Securities.

[Jae Sung Yoon, analyst]

[Interpreted] I have 2 questions as well. And the first question is to do with the renewable energy. First is the module. So what will be the amount associated for the ANPC that you have recognized for Q3?

And previously, you have shared that on a Q-on-Q basis, the volume will increase, but it seems that from the sales perspective, amount-wise, it seems flat. So can I understand what was the change in the ASPs and the total volume?

And about the power generation assets, was there any change in the profitability?

The second question is to do with the borrowings and overall financial structure. It seems that the amount of borrowing has been on the increase in recent years and quarters. So do you have any plans to improve the financial structure overall?

[Unknown Executive]

[Interpreted] About the ANPC amount for Q3, we have recognized KRW 121.6 billion and to help you with the previous -- or the historical figure for Q2, the amount recognized is KRW 146.8 billion. For Q1, it's KRW 96.6 billion. Cumulatively, it is in the mid-300 billion range, and we believe that our end of guidance of KRW 500 billion to KRW 600 billion will be met for the whole year.

So regarding the Q3 performance that your question is pointed on. On the Q-on-Q basis, we have shared that the sales volume will increase on a quarterly basis, but it seems that the volume was in the same range as that of the second quarter. And in terms of the ASP and the COGS on the spread basis, there is not a lot of differences.

Now that we are talking about the discrepancies in the Q3 performances, let me share with you the reason for the lack of increase in the sales volume for the -- and also the annual guidance figure for the module sales for -- which was 9 gigawatts, but we would like to adjust the figure, the annual guidance for the module sales, to 8 gigawatts.

So we'd like to adjust the figure for the Q3 sales and the annual sales. And that is because of the temporary power outage that has happened in our U.S. facility in Dalton, and that has had the major impact on our Q3 performance. So that is because of that reason that we are adjusting the annual module sales guidance figure.

Despite the fact that the performance in the third quarter has improved, we were able to reduce the size of loss -- operating loss for this quarter. That is despite that we were not able to increase the sales volume as we have expected. The profitability in the power generation asset and also from the EPC has improved from the previous quarter.

[Unknown Executive]

[Interpreted] And to respond to your question about the profitability of the power generation asset and EPC that we are still in the very early phase of this period/area. And there is an ongoing and continuing cost elements because of its infancy.

And looking into the profitability profile of respective projects, some are good and some are not so good. So there is a mixture in terms of the profitability profiles of the project. We are focusing on, of course, improving the profitability of the project and to make sure that it is improving overall, but still there are some resident variability.

But when we grow the overall size of the business and the revenue size, then we believe that the overall margin will improve generally.

[Unknown Executive]

[Interpreted] And regarding your second question about the financial structure for the ANPC, so we expect that amount or the amount for the securitization of the ANPC will be KRW 500 billion to KRW 600 billion for the whole year. And there is -- this is a bond issuance that happened in the third quarter.

But primarily, our strategy for the financial structure improvement will happen in 2025 as we expect the cash flow to improve.

[Operator]

[Foreign Language] The next question will be presented by Rui Hua Ong from JPMorgan.

[Rui Hua Ong, analyst]

I'm Parsley. So earlier on, you mentioned that you had a U.S. power outage issue that caused your third quarter shipments to be weak. Is there -- going forward, is there going to be any compensation for that?

And for 2025, do we still expect a full ramp-up to 10 gigawatts? What would be your -- and also you mentioned that you are expecting your GES or EPC division to have KRW 1.2 trillion revenue in fourth quarter, and that is what's driving this turn to profit, but what would be the growth outlook for 2025 and over the next few years?

The second question is with regards to the IRA. So if -- do you see a risk that the investment tax credit gets canceled or guidelines around it changed such that your clients no longer get the domestic content adder? And if that is the case, what do you think will be the impact on your business?

And then the third question is Hanwha Total's earnings was a little worse than usual. Could you share some of the key factors behind it? How much of it was PTA weakness? How much of it was one-off? And what is your outlook for next quarter and 2025?

[Unknown Executive]

[Foreign Language]

[Unknown Executive]

[Interpreted] So regarding your first question about the power outage, it happened not at the new facility but our existing facility in the United States. And I do not fully understand your question about the compensation.

But if I may respond to this question to the best of my ability is that the reason that has caused the power outage was quite complex. So it is not a single issue that has led to the power outage. So it is unclear if and when there is any compensation. And if so, from whom.

So with the power outage happened during the third quarter, so there was some impact on the production volume and the shipment, but we expect it would not spill over into the year '25.

And about the '25 outlook of 10 gigawatt, let me first state that 10 gigawatt is not a figure that has been officially endorsed by the company. But anyhow, we expect to share the official figure for the year '25 at our fourth quarter earnings call that is slated to happen in February of 2025.

But bear in mind that we have adjusted the annual guidance from 9 gigawatts to 8 gigawatts. So please use that as a baseline.

And with regard to -- I have an update on our new facility in Cartersville. So we have a better outlook in terms of the time line of its full operation. So we originally expected that to be operational -- fully operational -- within this year, but we have adjusted the schedule.

So the construction will be completed in the second half of next year, and that will be fully ramped up, and we expect the full operation will happen also in the second half.

The reason for the adjustment in the schedule is because of a very tight market for the construction in the United States. So we want to make sure that all the constructions happen in the full working order.

Despite the adjustment in the schedule, we want to make sure that it is fully completed and fully ramped up during the additional time that we were able to get.

[Unknown Executive]

[Interpreted] So your question about the GES or the EPC and the power generation asset sales. So the guidance figure that we have given for the Q4 is KRW 1.2 trillion, and we -- you said that, that will contribute to the turning around.

Let me correct that statement because we were profitable in the third quarter as well. So for the fourth quarter, unfortunately, we cannot share the detailed margin guidance, but we expect this trend of continued profit generation will continue in the fourth quarter as well.

And as for the future potential of this area is that with the increase in the power demand in the United States market, from the solar and wind and power and the ESS, we expect that there will be the increased opportunity for the EPC business, and we want to make sure that we fully utilize the increased opportunities with more project winning and executing, and that will help grow the size and the quality of the business.

[Unknown Executive]

[Interpreted] Let me respond to your question about IRA and there is a possibility for the minor details about the ITC or the DCA might change, but it's impossible to actually predict the future. So the degree of change or the areas of change that we expect could be very specific criteria or the time lines.

Regardless of the result of the upcoming presidential election, if there is any change in IRA, then what we would expect to happen is that the old associated stakeholders will revert back into the pre-IRA era.

And looking back at those times for Hanwha Solutions, we do not believe that we were not in a particularly less favorable business environment or the business situation and our business strategy was generally in line pre and post IRA.

So we believe that we have been focusing on the residential market and the C&I and also in line with the recent trend, we have expanded our share in the utilities market. So we have been maintaining very positive and encouraging market share in those 3 areas altogether.

And the reason for us focusing more on the U.S. market, partially because of the existence of IRA, but it is not necessarily guaranteed that our strategy will change in a fundamental fashion.

Of course, because of this unique timing that we are focused on, whether short-term issue of the presidential election and the possible change in the related policies, and it will have some impact on a short-term basis in terms of the demand.

But mid- to long-term basis, the U.S. market, the renewable sector will grow. That is for certain. And when you look into the size of the supply versus the demand, the supply -- the demand far exceeds the supply. So as we have already made a huge investment into the U.S. market, and we are in the process of further increasing the sales and the shipment. So we believe that in the mid- to long-term basis, the market will work in our favor.

[Unknown Executive]

[Interpreted] So let me respond to your question of the Hanwha impact in total. As you have mentioned, there was a one-off elements that associated with the worst performance of this quarter, and that is because of the exchange rate, and that has contributed to the further decreasing our profit and the fall in the international oil price has led us to use the higher-priced raw material.

Our forecast for the fourth quarter is that as the oil price are continuing to recover, then the performance for the fourth quarter will be better than the previous one.

[Operator]

[Foreign Language] Currently, there are no participants with questions. [Operator Instructions] The next question will be presented by Seung-jae Han from DB Financial Investment.

[Seung-jae Han, analyst]

[Interpreted] So now we are coming to the end of October, and you have adjusted the annual guidance to 8 gigawatts. So that means that for the fourth quarter, the expected shipment will be about 3 gigawatts. And on a Q-on-Q basis, that suggests 60% to 80% increase.

So on condition that the price and ASP remains the same, then we expect the profitability to improve in the areas of cell and module, and the company has not adjusted the annual guidance for the ANPC. So that means that for the fourth quarter, it will be in the range of KRW 140 billion to KRW 240 billion.

So I'd like to understand more about your profitability outlook for cell and module for Q4.

[Unknown Executive]

[Interpreted] So while we do not disclose our exact shipment figure on a quarterly basis, but we do share the Q-on-Q change. So that -- I believe that your prediction or your analysis is in the right range.

And for the fourth quarter, we expect the shipment to increase on a Q-on-Q basis about around 80%.

So that is the reason why that we expect the ANPC to also increase in Q4. With regard to the profitability -- that will that lead to turning around -- then, well, we cannot disclose that much, so we cannot give you any level range.

But what we can share is that from early on this year, that we have said that we will bottom out in the first half, more specifically in the first quarter that we will hit our bottom and our performance will continue to improve. Then we were true to our prediction, and we are cautiously looking at possible turning around in the fourth quarter.

In terms of the module sales with the ANPC that we expect to record profit. But of course, there are other elements that might offset this strong performance.

So -- but what we have said earlier that our performance is improving on a quarter-to-quarter basis is still valid.

As for the Q4, the module sales is important, but even more so is the performance from the power generation asset and the EPC because the annual guidance figure that we have given for this segment is KRW 2.5 trillion. And looking into the cumulative figure that was achieved in the first 3 quarters, what is left is KRW 1.2 trillion for the single quarter of the Q4.

So that is the highest performance out of the whole quarter of this year. So that might lead to the positive contribution of the possible turning around and that also heralds the modification or the change in our business structure.

[Unknown Executive]

[Interpreted] If there is no further question, we'd like to end the earnings call for the third quarter 2024 for Hanwha Solutions. Hope to see all of you at our next earnings call, and goodbye.

[Portions of this transcript that are marked [Interpreted] were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]