Ulker Biskuvi Sanayi AS

IST:ULKER.E

Earnings Call Transcript 2020-Q4

[Operator]

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Ülker Bisküvi Fourth Quarter 2020 Financial Results Conference Call and Webcast. I now hand over to Beste Tasar, Investor Relations Officer. Madam, please go ahead.

[Verda Tasar, executive]

Thank you, Denise. Good day, everyone, and welcome to Ülker Bisküvi's fourth quarter and full year results webcast. Today with me are CEO, Mete Buyurgan; and our CFO, Cenker Uçan.

I now hand over the call to our CEO, Mete, to share his thoughts on macro conditions in Turkey. You only read about the snacking market in Turkey and touched on the communication highlights of Ülker and then leave the ground to our CFO for the financial views of our operations. Mete?

[Mete Buyurgan, executive]

Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to our webcast meeting. Let's start with the presentation. I would like to give some headlines on Turkey economic market, macroeconomic overview, market growth, communication highlights and some highlights on the consolidated operational performance. Looking for the -- starting with the Turkey macroeconomic overview. Retail sales volume index, as you all know that we are all around the world, we are experiencing COVID-19 impact. And actually, after the first day of last year, first month of COVID-19 in Turkey, we experienced high growth volume -- high volume growth in the market. However, it has then started to decline again as of November end. In terms of industrial production index, this is more or less in line with the previous years. And in terms of consumer confidence index, it is much better than previous years, while it has started to be decreased after, again, as of October. If you look at total markets in Turkey, the domestic markets, which is one of our biggest chunk in our business, actually, we have almost 1.8% volume growth in the categories, which we are visible, and almost 19.6% growth in total value. The chocolate is the main driver of the market. It's not -- no chance because, as you know, may all know that chocolate is one of our biggest portion of our business. And there is a huge growth in chocolate market, not only in value, but also in volume. And it gives us a chance to grow our business as of last year.

By the way, I must say that one of the biggest contributors to growth in chocolate [indiscernible] versus our competitors. And this huge category is almost flat in terms of volume, and there is a limited growth in terms of value while there is big shrinkage in the market in terms of volume, which is like 7%, 7.1%, and there's a very limited growth in terms of volume. The basic reason of this shrinkage are low growth rate in bakery products is, as you know that in the -- during the COVID-19 pandemic, especially the first 3 months, there was a very increasing trend of home cooking, home baking at home. So it has a negative effect on the bakery category, not only in Turkey but also in many other world markets. Regarding the communication highlights, as of last year, it was a very good year that we got many, many kind of awards actually from different categories. But one of the biggest achievements for us makes us very happy is we are listed in Sustainability Yearbook of 2021 published by S&P actually. So we were ranked at 631 among the 7,000 companies. And actually, there were only 20 food companies worldwide, and we are one of the top 20 companies, food companies in the list all around the world. So it was a big honor for us, which recognizes our sustainability efforts in [indiscernible]

On the other hand, we are having, as I mentioned -- we used to have many other awards in different disciplines, different functions. So it was a good year, which we got huge recognition in terms of our efforts both for sustainability and our PR activities, by the way. In terms of competitive landscape, we are keeping our strong market share in the position while we keep increasing our market share in the Turkish market. And on the other hand, we keep -- despite all the turmoils in, as of last year, as you know, the fluctuation of fixed rates, COVID-19 and many others, we keep investing to our brands so that we are increasing our top-of-mind awareness of the brand. So investment -- the brand value starts to keep increasing in a continuous and steady way. In 2020, last -- as of last year, there were 4 main principles guided us during pandemic peak. In 2022, safety and well-being is one of our first priority. Building and investing in brands, as I mentioned, it was another big priority, despite all the turmoils. Accelerate utilization for commercial excellence, actually we got the benefit for this -- our previous investments through the digitalization. So we were very ready in this ambiguous environment and keep focusing on supply chain resilience. It was another important pillar for us to provide the supply chain resilience in terms of operational excellence. So we were successful in all 4 of those pillars actually as of last year. Within this year, within the new year, we are keeping the same pillars as of last year. But however, we are having some other priorities, by the way. They are innovating the core. It is one of our most important and strengthful muscle as with cash, and we keep innovating. We keep investing innovation and NPD secure, new product developments, continuously.

Designing the future of sales is going to be quite important, especially on the gross to net parts and route-to-market class. We are trying to get all the savings and all cost-effective models. So we are working on that, and we are continuously developing our route to market excellence and maintain our manufacturing competitive edge. As you may know that we are -- all around the world, we are one of the most competitive manufacturing hub in Turkey, but we still keep investing on that as we are especially -- through the digitalization efforts, we are trying to increase our competitive edge on this area. And focusing on the organizational health is another important pillar for us, so to build up our organizational capability for the next coming years. As a summary, as of last year, we have celebrated our 75th year of experience in Turkey. So this -- this is -- this year is our -- it's going to be 76th year for us. As you know, we are having production facilities in 4 countries with 10 facilities, and we are having the largest capacity in the region with very strategically located plants, which is almost 1 billion tons. A very strong performance, I must say that -- I'm planning to thank you for all our teams actually for this steady and very strong performance in top line and bottom line. Actually, I must say that it is not only top line and bottom line. We are also showing a promising growth in terms of market share and our brand's values actually.

Our continuous -- as a result of our continuous journey in top line and bottom line performance, we have reached highest average EBITDA level, which is almost 17.2%, and we have reached TRY 9.4 billion sales. The good thing is our EBITDA CAGR is very higher than our net sales growth CAGR actually. So it's another important achievement for us for a healthy financial tables. As of 2022, full year -- if you look at the consolidated performance highlights, as I mentioned, we reached TRY 9.4 billion, 20.5% growth in net sales. Our gross profit has been reached to 23.6%, and it keeps improving. In terms of EBITDA level, we have increased our performance 24.4%, and we reached to 17.2% margin -- EBITDA margin. And as a result of the financial efforts and operational strength -- operational efforts, our net debt-to-EBITDA position is one of the best actually. We reach only -- we reached 0.14 multiple, which is, by far, ahead of our -- ahead in our industry actually. Volume and value growth. In terms of volume and value growth, if we look at the fourth quarter, we had a very strong fourth quarter, actually. Fourth quarter was very -- the demand -- in terms of demand and the production set, we have increased our performance very well if you look at overall year, full year '22 -- 2019. As I mentioned in the beginning, chocolate is the main driver of our performance as of last year. While this chocolate volume has been increased 9.8%, biscuit volume increased only 1.6%. At least we have seen volume growth in bakery part in biscuit part. We have only a trouble in cakes part, the shrinkage, but I think we are going to have a better year in cake category. We see the positive signs on cake growth within this year. And in terms of value, biscuit sales was up 22%, while chocolate sales up 25%, which is -- which was promising growth in terms of value.

Another very positive progress in the split breakdown of revenue and EBITDA. In terms of -- as of last year, our domestic sales is almost 60% while international sales is constituting 40% of our total net debt. But in terms of EBITDA, for the first time, our international business operations EBITDA is higher than domestic EBITDA, which shows us that we are having a really profitable and sustainable business outside of Turkey in the respectable regions, which we are actively operating. As a summary, as we discussed, actually, the contraction volume reached to 594,000 tons, which is very close to 600,000 tons with a good growth rate despite COVID impacts, and there were lot of turmoils in the region. In terms of revenue, we reached 20.5% growth in pandemic days, which is very positive for us. Then we look at our competitors in the region as well.

Gross profit margins is increasing more than our revenue growth, which is another very positive sign. And EBITDA is another very good sign, which is growing higher than our revenues -- net sales actually. The main drivers behind this strong performance is very effective RGM management, definitely effective volume mix and pricing impact, on-time actions on RGM and positive impact of export and international business. And last but not least, I think we have the most important impact from NPD innovation part. Our innovation strength was quite strong as of last year, especially, we have launched more than 80 products [indiscernible] on the market, despite all those challenges. And we got a very good growth rate through those innovation and NPDs. And I must say that, again, most of our NPDs are very margin equity, which help us to increase our margins in a healthy way.

So that's the summary of 2020. Thank you very much. Now it's over to Cenker Uçan, our CFO. He's going to give some detailed information in our operations and especially on our financials.

[Cenker Uçan, executive]

Thank you very much, Mete. Hello, everyone. So as you might recall from our previous meetings, so now, first, I would like to start with our anchor market, Turkey and then cover the international operational results.

So as you know that, as Ülker, we are clearly #1 in total confectionery market, having the market share around 37.1%. And so we kept our position in 2020. So if we are starting with biscuit category. So as you all know that we had an ambition to be #1 in biscuit category in '19. And so with these great initiatives. So we have been #1 market leader in biscuit category, starting from 2019, and we kept our position in biscuit category. So in '19, we -- our market share in biscuit was 40.7%. And so we were able to increase our market share to 41.9%. So in chocolate, we are very dominant, and our market share is nearly 3x higher than #2. And as of '19, our market share in chocolate category was 40.8%. And so we have increased our position to 41%. And in cake category, we maintained our strong #2 position, and our market share in cake was 21.6%. So as you see the pictures of our synergy products and NPDs, so which we are paying very attention for these categories, as Mete mentioned that, we are strongly supporting our brands and also paying attention to innovation processes. So on the left side, we are seeing the products that we launched in 2020 on the synergy products category. So in 2019, our revenue generation from these synergy products was TRY 424 million. And as of 2020, we have increased this revenue to TRY 516 million. On the right side, we are seeing the products that we launched in 2020 under Ülker brands, and the total contribution of this 2020 launch NPDs was TRY 350 million. So if we are looking to 3 years' period of NPDs, we can clearly say that the total ratio is around 13%, 14% of total revenue. So these processes are helping us to increase our profitability and also maintaining our market leader position in the market. So if we are starting with last quarter's financial results for domestic operations. So we had a volume increase around 5.2%, and our revenues have increased very strongly, which is around 27%. And our gross profit has increased by around 15%, and our EBITDA margin was flat, which was 13.3%. So if we are covering the cumulative figures, so we have closed the year retail volume growth of 2%, and our revenue increase was around 19%, and we were able to increase our gross profit margin by 20 basis points and which is 21.8%. And the cumulative EBITDA margin is 10 basis points better than last year, which is 14.4%. So as you clearly observed that we had another successful year for Turkey. And so we have maintained our position in the market in terms of market share, and we have a sustainable growth and also EBITDA margin improvement. So on Page 25, we are seeing the breakdown for the branded and nonbranded portfolio. So in line with our strategy, we are continuing to focus to our branded business, and the volume share of branded business has increased from 90% to 92%. And in terms of revenue, it has grown from 93% to 94%. So we will maintain our strategy in the coming years again. So on Page 27, we are seeing the milestones of our acquisitions. So as you might recall, we have defined our strategy in 2016, and with -- in line with this strategy, we would like to be also operating in other emerging markets due to this reason. In 2016, we have acquired Egyptian and Saudi businesses. And following 2016 and '17, we have acquired the Kazakhstan facility and the Dubai McVitie's operations. And last year, in '18, we have acquired the second facility in Saudi. So all these acquisitions have positively contributed to our business in terms of increasing our revenues and profitability in each year. So if we are starting with our second anchor market, Saudi, first, I would like to cover our first facilities financial results in FMC. So we have a volume growth around 8.3% in FMC facility and our revenues have improved around 8%. And our EBITDA has grown by 5%. So we have an EBITDA margin around 13.7%. We have a slight decline because this is the impact coming from the gross production between FMC and IBC. So we will see improvement in IBC facility. And on the right side, as you all know, that after acquiring McVitie's manner right, so we have very strong brand in our portfolio. And as Ülker only, our market share in Saudi is 16.1%, and McVitie's has 8%. So if we are adding all these 2 brands market share to our total, we have a 24% market share, which is 10% higher than #2. This is very strong picture for our company. And for IBC, if we are looking to IBC's financial results. So we have a volume growth around 2.8%, and our net sales was flat, and we have improved our EBITDA, and our EBITDA margin is 26.3%. So with the ambition of creating synergies in Saudi on Page 13, you can clearly see the improvement of our business. So I mean, our EBITDA margin was 13.6% in Saudi, and currently, it has improved to 19%. So after the acquisition of Saudi business, we have started cross production. And currently, we are producing McVitie's and [indiscernible] in our facilities. With all initiatives, we have created future amount of synergies, which we are positively enjoying from profitability side. So if we are moving to Egypt facility, so we have a volume decline. This is mainly coming from the price increases because we made some price changes and also delisted some of our less profitable SKUs. So we suppose that to impact our profitability. So despite having a net sales decline in Egypt facility, we have more profitable business, and our EBITDA margin has improved from 15.4% to 16.7%. So with -- starting from 2020, as Ülker, we have been #1 company in biscuit category. And currently, our market share is around 18%, which is a 2.7 percentage point higher than number two. It was also our another strategy and vision to be #1 in Egypt country. And so we have strongly and successfully achieved this ambition. For UI MENA operations. So as you know that this company has acquired the production and distribution lines of McVitie's brands. And so this company is importing McVitie's products from Turkey and U.K. and sold to all MENA region. And so we have a volume growth around 7% in UI MENA, and our net sales has grown 5%, 4%, and we have very strong EBITDA improvement. And currently, our EBITDA margin is 35%. And lastly, our Kazakhstan facility. So we have acquired this facility in '17. And at that time, we have 2%, 3% EBITDA margin in Kazakhstan. And having a very strong CapEx investment, we are now enjoying these -- from the positive impacts of this investment. So our volume has grown very strongly, which is 12%. And we have a 25% revenue growth, and EBITDA growth is around 22%. And as you see that we have a very sustainable and profitable business in Kazakhstan, which is 14.5%. And in terms of chocolate market share, so we have maintained our position in the market, and we are a very strong #3 in Kazakhstan business. So in all regions, we have strongly maintained our position and gained market share. So in Saudi, our market share in biscuit category was 23.8% in '19, and it has improved to 24.1%. In Egypt, so we have improved our market share by 20 basis points. And currently, it's around 18%. And in Kazakhstan, we gained 70 basis points, and our market share is 13.1%. So if we are covering the financial results, so far international operations. So we have -- for the last quarter, we have a flat volume growth. And our revenues have grown by 18.8%. But if we only look for the confectionery growth, it is around 23%. As you know that in '19, we have Istanbul Gida operations under our umbrella. So due to the sale of the Istanbul Gida, we have that kind of split total on confectionary side. So the total gross profit increased by 26%. And currently, our gross profit margin reached 37%, and we have very profitable business in our international operations, which is 200 basis points higher than last year and jumped to 21.3%. So if we are covering the cumulative figures, so the total confectionery volume growth was around 5.7%, and we have a 23.4% revenue growth. And the gross profit -- cumulative gross profit is 37.4%, which is 100 basis points higher than last year, and our EBITDA margin is 100 basis points higher than last year and reached 71.4%. Like Turkey, we have the same strategy to focus more to the branded side. So the share of the branded business in our international operations are continuing to increase. So in terms of volume, we have 79% branded share in our total portfolio, which has improved to 80%. And in terms of revenue, the share of the total branded business was similar to 2019, which is 85%. If we are covering the balance sheet ratios, so we have very strong and healthy balance sheet structure. So our net debt has declined from TRY 381 million to TRY 226 million. So our net debt-to-EBITDA multiple is nearly very close to 0, which is very fantastic. And in terms of maturity, as you remember that in 2020, despite COVID-19, we have new syndication facility and new Eurobond issuance. With these initiatives and deals, we have 92% long-term debt, which is very strong. So our short-term denominated debt is around 8% of our total debt, which is very fantastic considering the macroeconomic environment. So in terms of net working capital base due to the COVID, we have a -- we got healthy stock. So that's why our inventory days have increased slightly and due to the some initiatives. So we have increased our asset payable date.

So in last quarter, we had very strong cash flow generation, which was around -- which was higher than last year. We have created around TRY 547 million. And our accumulative yearly operating cash flow of generation was TRY 536 million. In terms of FX position, so we have one of the unique companies operating in Turkey, not having any FX exposure on the balance sheet. So we are long in euros and short in U.S. dollars. So due to this structure, we have TRY 325 million equivalent, a positive effect on the balance sheet. So due to the increases of FX against Turkish lira, our P&L has not been negatively impacted. So we aim to maintain this position in '21 as well. Finally, so we had shared our guidance for revenue, TRY 9.1 billion. So we have a very successful year. So -- and we closed the year TRY 300 million higher than our guidance. So our EBITDA margin guidance was, for 2020, 17.1%. And so despite COVID-19 and other difficulties, we were able to improve our guidance by 10 basis points and on that tier with 17.2%. Now this is the end of my presentation. So now we are happy to get your questions if you have. Thank you.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] The first question comes from [indiscernible]

[Unknown Analyst]

Congratulations on the strong results. I have 2 questions, if I may. One is on the growth prospects and the year-to-date performance of operations, if you could provide some color, it would be very helpful. And secondly, you have also mentioned a significant improvement in the free cash flow and the net debt position, and we are seeing a substantial increase in your cash and equivalents position as well. Going forward, you -- because you have also previously mentioned about potential inorganic expansion, what could be the next step for Ülker with that much funding already we have seen, that much flow to the company we have seen? And thirdly, if I'm not wrong, I estimate that for Saudi Arabia, there is slight volume contraction on a combined basis for -- including assumption IBC volumes. Could this be just for the fourth quarter or could I -- could we see the continuing trend involving contraction in the first quarter or the second quarter?

[Cenker Uçan, executive]

Okay. Thank you. So if we are starting with our last question from the Saudi business. So the volume contraction is not coming from the last quarter because in Saudi, there have been different initiatives in the country, which we can start from the VAT changes and also Southeast Asian activities, et cetera. So how we manage these operations, so we are always looking at these all regions from one angle, so which means that we have increased our gross production. In some cases, we have started to produce some of our products in Turkey facility, in Egypt facility. So this volume contraction is not coming from different or due to the market dynamics because, as of today, our business, in a total way, I mean, in terms of revenue, is improving. And so we are looking all these operations together with other facilities. So with regards to your first question about the market dynamics, so as Mete mentioned that, I mean, we are operating in a very tough environment. So far, we are not having any big issues in Turkey and in our international operations. So as Ülker, we will maintain our position as we did in previous years and trying to achieve our target and commitments to our investors.

For the second question of the cash, yes, we have very sufficient level of cash. As you might remember from our previous investor meetings, we are always looking for different opportunities, considering and supporting our vertical integration. And so therefore, if we -- if the market dynamics and all the environment will would be feasible and if we strongly believe that we are creating opportunities and synergies for our company, of course, we will be considering. So I am sure everyone is aware that our Board has decided to pay dividend for 2020 profit, which was around TRY 276 million. So as Ülker, we are a dividend payer company. So having so much cash, yes, and we are sharing some of our profitability and cash with our investors. So we are very happy, and I hope this decision will be approved by the general assembly -- in our first general assembly.

[Operator]

The next question comes from Kayahan Demirak from AK Invest.

[Kayahan Demirak, analyst]

I have also a few questions. The first one is about the acquisition likely mentioned. The last time we checked, I remember that you were specifically looking for the acquisition of [indiscernible] or distribution company Horizon. Is it still the case? These were the two likely candidates?

[Mete Buyurgan, executive]

This is Mete. As you mentioned that actually, we are looking for many acquisition opportunities, not only in Turkey, but also outside of Turkey in our respective regions. As you mentioned that [indiscernible], Horizon and Pacific are all strong hosts for our business actually. So there are the alternatives, definitely, for our next coming acquisition opportunities. We are working on different options right now. Once we are going to be ready to share the results of our studies, we are going to announce to investors accordingly.

[Kayahan Demirak, analyst]

Okay. And my second question is back in the fourth quarter. Despite flat volumes in your international confectionery revenue sales, I mean the revenues came down by around 10% in dollar terms, despite the flat volume. So could you give us some color on that? I mean is it because of the local currency depreciation changing volume mix? And also, we have seen a major depreciation, a devaluation in the Iraq. It came at the end of the year, but did it have any impact on your business? Or do you expect to have some impact on the international revenues?

[Mete Buyurgan, executive]

Thank you, Kayahan. Actually, you are right, basically from [indiscernible] depreciation -- devaluation of the currencies, which we are operating Turkey side. But also in the international side, we have some slightly depreciation -- devaluation in Kazakhstan, in Egypt as well. And as you mentioned, Ülker has an impact, important impact as the last quarter, definitely, because this is one of our big export markets. But we are very experienced on that because we face with those kind of devaluations many times in the past. You may remember that, in 2018, we had another big devaluation in both in Turkey and in the neighborhood countries, especially. They are creating some 2, 3 months short-term impacts, negative impacts. But eventually, within the midterm, we are getting the balanced results on those issues. So right now, we are confident on that. But the major impact because of the revenue decline in terms of U.S. dollar is the depreciation of the FX rates.

[Kayahan Demirak, analyst]

Okay. That's very clear. And then my final question. I mean, as for the next year, I mean, is it possible to provide any kind of rough guidance for the free cash flow expectations?

[Mete Buyurgan, executive]

So as you know that we are sharing our guidance during our first quarter webcast meeting. So we will give all details in May. But what I can clearly say that, as Ülker, we will always pushing the market and improve our financial parameters in all aspects.

[Kayahan Demirak, analyst]

Okay. And as for a follow-up for the acquisition question. So should we think of the vertical integration and then additional acquisition, for instance, from high growth as a separate thing, I mean there's going to be vertical integration, but then some expansion acquisitions? Or are you considering even one of them?

[Mete Buyurgan, executive]

Actually, we are -- we are operating in a very volatile environment, very volatile geographies so in terms of cash position, stay on the strong cash position is quite important for us as we look at it. So because of that reason, we -- most probably, we will be -- choose one of them actually. We are looking for, as I mentioned, different opportunities. But we are going to choose one of them, which is going to give us the biggest opportunity in terms of next coming year's growth and profitability.

[Operator]

Your next question comes from [indiscernible]

[Unknown Analyst]

Congratulations for strong operation results. My question is about your financial investment, which was previously recorded as cash and cash equivalents. And we see that for this year's diverse fluctuations, that's why I've been one of my concern about your balance sheet, for the following years, could you give us some picture about the connectivity of this to U.S. dollar or other metrics that could help us to see the predictability of that item because in fourth quarter, I see a high interest rate, and there's a positive fair value contribution in third and fourth and even in the second quarter, partially maybe due to the [ currency ] changes. But I would like to say, is there any way -- because for my side, that's the weakest part. The operations are strong, and the dividend is great, the company's business and everything. But from that point just from a better understand for the following years. Could you give us any picture or the possibility of any volatility in that front?

[Cenker Uçan, executive]

Thank you, [ Jamal ]. So actually, if we are looking to financial statements for '19 and 2020, so all these figures are apple to apple. So therefore, there is not any accounting policy change. So I clearly understand your questions, but what I can honestly underline, we have invested our -- some portion of cash to these liquid funds. And I believe if we look to financial outcome, as you can also follow from the disclosures, we have created around TRY 316 million favorable gain from these liquid funds. So if we are looking the return rather than placing this to the bank, I think these figures would be not comparable, and it is clearly showing our -- accuracy of our decisions. So if we are looking to 2019 figures. So we have another TRY 300 million fair value gain. So the cumulative in the last 2 years, the fair value gain, reached TRY 618 million. So with regards to your point, we are always closely monitoring the market. And so of course, if there will be different uncertainties, of course, we will take decision. As we remember from our third quarter, some portion to convert it into the cash. So therefore, as of today, I cannot give you any color for how much it is going to be. It's -- it can be higher than this level. It can be lower than these levels. So of course, we will see based on the market dynamics. And also, if we will have acquisitions, of course, some funds might be used in this financing of acquisitions. So therefore, for your question, I cannot give you any color. But of course, we will continue to create gains from this investment portfolio.

[Operator]

And the next question comes from Hanzade Kilickiran from JPMorgan.

[Hanzade Kilickiran, analyst]

I have 2 quick questions. The first one is, you don't share the guidance for 2021 at the moment. But is there any sort of clarity, I mean, or guidance about how should we think about the margin of particularly in Turkey and also MENA countries in 2021? I mean this includes the raw material cost. And you have a rather low volume -- chocolate volume in MENA countries. I mean, do you have any plans to increase chocolate volumes going forward in the MENA, which could also expand your margins further? And finally, has there been any change in receivables or the loan to parent company? And what should we expect in this in 2021, no value in the payment. And regarding to this loan, how do they pay the interest expense? Is it paid on a quarterly basis? Or do you record it on an accrual basis?

[Cenker Uçan, executive]

So let me start with your last question. So we are placing this money. And for the interest, of course, it is calculating on a daily basis, and we are getting the interest on a monthly basis. So therefore, it is not equal, so -- but calculated based on the interest rate. For the -- I mean, for the chocolate question, actually, with -- I mean, for Saudi, for MENA, of course, it is not easy to extend the chocolate business without any local facility. And what we are doing is we have a very limited production in Saudi, but we are supporting the country with our exports. And currently, especially for our Godiva products, we are seeing different opportunities. And so our volume for chocolate business will improve with our Godiva brand. For the guidance, so I mean, I have covered these questions for Kayahan, actually, you can think always an improvement for Ülker financial figures despite different difficulties. So once we have a clear picture about FX rates and other dynamics, of course, we are going to share with you during our first call because, as you know, that FX is one of our quite important criteria for us because we have 40% denominated FX revenues and 50% denominated EBITDA. So the FX position will be defined our revenue growth and also profitability. But if you look to the presentation, as we did in our previous year, we are aiming to maintain our momentum in terms of profitability and sustainable growth.

[Hanzade Kilickiran, analyst]

It's reasonable to think that 17% is the kind of bottom margin for you.

[Cenker Uçan, executive]

Yes. Okay. Once we have, we will.

[Hanzade Kilickiran, analyst]

All right. Cenker, were there any payments from your withholding regarding September loan?

[Cenker Uçan, executive]

Actually, it is not related with payments. So whenever I want, I can withdrawn. I mean, whenever I would like to get this money here, I can withdrawn. So as we mentioned that so far, we have a placement, as you have noticed in the financial statements. So once we will decide for M&A or for other alternatives or other liquid funds, et cetera, we will define our strategy. But I would like to underline it's a placement. So whenever I want, I can withdraw the money.

[Operator]

Ladies and gentlemen, there are no further questions. Mr. Cenker, Mr. Mete, back to you for the conclusion.

[Mete Buyurgan, executive]

Thank you very much. So we don't have any additional things.

[Cenker Uçan, executive]

Yes. I would like to thank everyone. And so hope to see you and meet you in our following meetings and webcast meetings.

[Operator]

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. This concludes today's webcast call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.