Galaxy Entertainment Group Ltd

HKEX:27

Earnings Call Transcript 2022-Q1

[Operator]

Good day, and welcome to the Galaxy Entertainment Group Q1 2021 Conference Call. Today's call is being recorded. And at this time, I'd like to turn the conference over to Bob Drake. Please go ahead, sir.

[Robert Drake, executive]

Greetings, everyone, and thank you for joining us for the update on GEG's Q1 2022 results. The GEG team joining me here on today's call include Mike Mecca, a member of the GEG Board of Directors; Roland To, Senior Director of Strategic Planning; and Peter Caveny, Assistant Senior Vice President of Investor Relations.

Copies of our media release, stock exchange announcement and PowerPoint presentation are available on our website, which also include our customary disclaimers. On behalf of our Chairman, Dr. Lui, Francis Lui and the entire GEG family, we greatly appreciate everyone's continued perseverance in battling the COVID-19 pandemic, which unfortunately has touched virtually everyone in the world. We are confident that the world, including Greater China, will continue to successfully navigate through this traumatic period where we remain upbeat and positive that brighter days are indeed ahead.

As you know, Macau continued to be impacted by sporadic COVID-19 outbreaks in the fourth quarter 2021 and the first quarter of 2022, where the Macau government continued to react incredibly swiftly to minimize public health and safety risk as they have throughout the entire crisis. We again applaud the Macau government for its proactive, decisive and effective leadership during the pandemic.

Despite the sporadic outbreaks in Greater China over the past 2 years, Macau has demonstrated the ability to bounce back quickly in a choppy market, while at the same time, supporting the all-important public policies, which has certainly cause for optimism. Unfortunately, the positive momentum of Q4 2021 abated into Q1 of 2022 and so far into Q2, given the sporadic outbreaks in Greater China, which translates to very low visitation and very low revenue as well as increased pressure on profitability, balance sheets and liquidity.

As we have mentioned many times before, we continue to believe that the Macau market recovery will be gradual, managed and choppy in the near term, where we remain as confident as ever in its medium- and longer-term future. To be clear, GEG remains as committed as ever to the health and safety of the community, our team members and our guests as well as the economic and social stability of Macau where the continued containment of the virus remains the highest priority.

Despite the pandemic, Macau has been very active on the highly publicized regulatory front. Macau is making progress on the revised gaming law, which is well positioned to be passed by the end of June. They also announced in early March 2022 that the current gaming concessions would be extended to the end of 2022, where all concessionaires, including Galaxy, have reportedly applied for this extension. We anticipate that the Macau government will update us on the tendering process for the new gaming concessions in the near future, especially with the forthcoming passing of the revised gaming law. We believe that the proposed gaming law, among other related legislation and policies, if implemented, would improve the regulatory oversight of the industry, increase the sector's transparency and strategically position the long-term viability of the cornerstone of the Macau economy.

Let's move on to our Q1 2022 performance, where our effective cost control efforts continued to yield positive results as we navigate through a very choppy revenue environment. On the development front, we also continue to make progress with our enhancement projects at our existing properties as well as with our game-changing development projects in Cotai Phase 3, which is virtually complete, and move forward the construction of Cotai Phase 4.

GEG's Q1 2022 EBITDA declined 33% year-on-year and decreased 45% quarter-on-quarter to $575 million. Our normalized EBITDA of $572 million declined 24% year-on-year and decreased 38% quarter-on-quarter. We experienced a modest amount of good luck in Q1 2022, which benefited EBITDA by a modest $3 million. You may be interested in knowing that our luck adjustments are now based solely on our rolling programs. Having said that, and for the record, we played unlucky in Q4 2021, which reduced EBITDA by $45 million and played lucky in Q1 2021 which benefited EBITDA by $108 million.

You may recall that our Q4 2020 results included a onetime expense reversal of $168 million, which increased EBITDA. We invite you to refer to the table on Page 3 of our press release at your leisure for the detail.

Despite the challenging market condition, there was a bright spot during the quarter and that's retail. We are pleased to report that our mall operations delivered its second best performance ever, including a record CNY performance in February despite significant disruption during the quarter originating from COVID-19 outbreaks. This certainly signals strong demand for Macau and bodes well for an overall market recovery.

We also continue to work hard in managing our cost structure and we'll continue to deliver operating leverage, especially as business gradually improves. To that end, our Macau OpEx burn rate has declined by approximately 1/3 from approximately USD 3.4 million per day under normal operating conditions and has been running in the $2.3 million range for the past 7 quarters.

We'd like to pause here yet again and make a very important point on fiscal management, especially during these challenging times that distinguishes Galaxy from the rest of the Macau market and, for that matter, the global industry. We certainly acknowledge that OpEx burn rate is an important part of the expense equation, but there's certainly more to the overall cost picture than that. Daily cash burn is more indicative of the cost structure as it includes interest expense. We are very fortunate that we are the only concessionaire in Macau that generates net interest income, not interest expense.

In fact, our net interest income in Q1 2022 was approximately USD 240,000 per day. If you deduct the $240,000 per day of net interest income from the $2.3 million per day in OpEx burn rate, you get approximately $2 million per day in cash burn, excluding CapEx. It's a powerful example of how conservative balance sheet management really pays in challenging periods in general and, in our case, significantly differentiates us from the competition as well as contributes to making prudent decisions which are in the long-term best interest of the company.

We would like to thank everyone on the GEG team as well as our valued suppliers who continue to support the company in these difficult times over the past 2 years by contributing to our cost management programs. Everyone's support has truly been inspiring. We have also contributed millions of dollars to the COVID-19 relief efforts to support the community as we previously reported.

Let's move on to our development update, beginning in Cotai, where we continue to invest in Macau as well as Galaxy's future. We are pleased to report that we have virtually completed the construction of our Cotai Phase 3, including Raffles at Galaxy Macau, as well as the Galaxy International Convention Center in Andaz Macau. As we have previously reported, we intend to align the opening of Cotai Phase 3 with the recovery of the Macau market. We are also proceeding with the construction of Cotai Phase 4, Macau's only next-generation integrated resort, which will complete our ecosystem here in Cotai.

As you can see, we remain highly confident about the future of Macau as we continue to invest literally billions of dollars into our business. In fact, we invested approximately $800 million in Cotai Phases 3 and 4 during Q1 and approximately $21 billion to date against our $50 billion project, where we are doubling our footprint in Cotai. Our Cotai development activities, along with our existing property initiatives, also demonstrate our support of Macau during the pandemic by continuing to invest in the economy, providing jobs and supporting local SMEs during these challenging times as well as our long-term commitment to help Macau achieve its vision of becoming a world center of tourism leisure.

Next up is Greater China, where we continue with our disciplined approach to exploring opportunities in Mainland China, including the Greater Bay Area. We continue to believe that the central government continues to signal strong, long-term support for Macau and the rest of the GBA.

Let's move on to our balance sheet, which continues to remain strong, liquid and virtually unlevered. Cash and liquid investments increased from $33.4 billion at the end of December 2021 to $35 billion at March 31, 2022. However, our net cash position declined from $27 billion to $24.5 billion as investing in our Cotai development projects, including Cotai Phases 3 and 4, and changes in working capital, among others, were partially offset by operational inflows, including EBITDA and net interest income.

Total debt increased from $6.4 billion to $10.5 billion, which primarily reflects $10.1 billion of borrowings associated with our treasury yield enhancement initiative. Our core debt remained minimal at $370 million, which includes 0 debt associated with our Macau operations. Yes, to be clear, we said 0 debt associated with our Macau operation.

Moving on to dividends, where we recently paid the $0.30 per share special dividend on April 29, 2022. Our special dividend certainly demonstrates our continued confidence in the Macau market and GEG's future performance as well as our strong balance sheet, especially during these challenging times.

Our next topic is our outlook, where we continue to remain optimistic that Macau's recovery will be gradual, managed and choppy and are very confident that Macau will continue to navigate through the pandemic. We are also encouraged that we see strong signs of healthy demand and are very confident that the leisure and tourism sector will indeed bounce back.

In the interim, we remain well-capitalized with investment in our development initiatives, including our game-changing Cotai Phases 3 and 4, and navigate through the pandemic operationally. We also remain upbeat and very positive about the long-term prospects for Macau and the Greater Bay Area, where the underlying fundamentals continue to remain incredibly compelling.

In closing, we would also like to extend our sincere appreciation to the Macau government for their outstanding performance as well as the community which has rallied under their leadership during the pandemic. We would also like to thank all the GEG team members again who have been extraordinarily supportive of the community and the company during this challenging period.

Operator, that concludes our opening remarks. So back to you to kick off the Q&A session.

[Operator]

[Operator Instructions] We will now take our first question from Billy Ng from Bank of America.

[Billy Ng, analyst]

I have -- first question, I would like to ask about if you guys can provide any updates on the new legislation and the license renewal process. Are there any updates for the second quarter? And what's the expectation of the whole process in terms of any time line or any other detail? That will be appreciated.

[Robert Drake, executive]

Thanks for the question, Billy. As it's widely reported here in Macau and in the industry press that Macau continues to make progress on revising the gaming law. During the quarter, they certainly introduced new legislation such as the junket law and as well as credit legislation as well. It seems that they're well on track to complete the legislative process by the end of June. That's what they're telling us. It looks like they're gaining momentum to actually accomplish that.

On the back of that, during the quarter, they also announced the extension of the gaming concessions to the end of the year. And as I said in our opening remarks, that Galaxy has definitely submitted our application for the extension. We're waiting to hear back from the government, including the conditions of the extension, and it looks like we're gaining -- making some progress here. And after the gaming law is introduced, we wouldn't be surprised shortly thereafter that they launched the tendering process for the new gaming concessions. So it looks like the momentum continues to build.

[Billy Ng, analyst]

Another question I have is when we look at the quarterly number detail, it looks like StarWorld doesn't have any rolling turnover. Is it a temporary restructure? Or do you -- or guys have changed StarWorld into a purely premium mass property and as a result, like, there will be no direct VIP business in the property?

[Robert Drake, executive]

Good question, Billy. As you know, we really -- VIP is ground to a complete halt here in Macau for the most part, and that would include both StarWorld and, of course, in Galaxy Macau.

We've only operated our JinMen business, which is our premium director in-house rolling program at Galaxy Macau. So we're working with StarWorld. We've been transforming it to a more mass-centric property and introduce some new initiatives there. And it's -- the peninsula is going through a transition as well, and we'll continue to work on StarWorld, but it will be a mass-centric property.

[Billy Ng, analyst]

I see. One last question. Just wonder the recent Labor Day weekend, it seems like GGR rebound a little bit. And would you mind to share any color you see on the ground in terms of the GGR? And also in terms of retail, do you see retail continue to be as strong as what we have seen in the first quarter?

[Robert Drake, executive]

Well, one of the visitation trends, and we saw that the year-on-year visitation was down almost 20% and certainly was not near what it used to be back in normal operating conditions. And I think because of the travel restrictions and the government's attempts to contain the spread of COVID, that we saw more visitation from closer to home, meaning Guangdong. During holiday periods, we usually see higher visitation from outside of Guangdong, and that wasn't the case this time. And then we had some staycationers as well.

So no, I think everyone is a little disappointed by the results in Golden Week. There was a sequential uptick in visitation and we did see some decent play, but it's certainly not what we're used to. And there's a significant demand for the hotels which actually picked up. The restaurants were busy. Even for the first 4 days of the holiday, which were really the key days of the holiday, our occupancy was in the mid-80s and that's based on available rooms. And if you base it on total physical inventory, it was in the low 70s, where we'd like to make an important point. This is just going through our testament about how we're controlling costs.

So we did take some rooms out of service and, of course, that reduces our overhead and the like there. And that's something that we can ramp up very quickly in the event that the business comes back. But it's -- we'll continue to navigate through the pandemic and flex as much as we can on the cost structure to accommodate any revenue streams that are coming into the market.

As far as retail is concerned, although we had a great Q1, it was our second best performance. If you look during the last year, our best quarter was Q2 of 2021, followed by our second best quarter in Q4, but -- which is now our third best quarter. And then we had a very solid performance, which translated to be our second best performance in Q1.

Over the holiday, it probably wasn't as strong because we're not getting visitation from outside of Guangdong like we used to. And plus there was more local component to it. But it was still solid. It just wasn't the record pace that we've seen historically.

[Operator]

We will now take our next question from Terry Ng, Daiwa Capital Markets. He seems to have stepped away.

We will now take our next question from Simon Cheung, Goldman Sachs.

[Simon Cheung, analyst]

I have a couple of questions. So I guess the first one related to the chip liability, which seems how your chip liability have fallen to what, $400 million or so, I think in -- at the end of last year. I just wanted to get a sense how much it has fallen further by.

And then relating to that, obviously, some brokers, including ourselves, have been doing some guesstimation about the potential joint liability with all the junkets in relation to all these deposit-taking activity going on. And one of your competitors being -- pointing us to looking at chip liability being one of the way to approximate that amount. Can you maybe share with us how would you recommend us as a sell-side analysts thinking about that question? And then I have two more follow-ups.

[Robert Drake, executive]

Sure. As far as the unredeemed chip liability, and that's one of the changes in working capital that I was talking about in our cash flow, which actually declined. Let's see here, it was about 40% from a little over $400 million to say like $250 million. So that accounted for some of the working capital adjustments that we talked about. Of course, we'd love to see that number go up, especially with the cash chips, which indicates the business is bouncing back.

So the joint liability issues is certainly front of mind for the market. We've been watching the cases and our brothers out there, as far as concessionaire is concerned, how their cases are going. And it's -- we're doing our best to defend ourselves like everybody else is. And right now, we only have a few cases and it's not material at the moment.

Simon, there are a lot of ways to attack this issue. And just looking at the overall trend is one way, and I've seen some of the work that you've done with some of your colleagues which is you're certainly looking at it in a way that could provide some perspective on that. If you layer in unredeemed chips, it's just one part of the overall equation.

[Simon Cheung, analyst]

Understood. And then my second question, the March -- we saw that in the first quarter, the EBITDA, obviously ,is still quite profitable. If you were to break down, I know January, February been much better compared to March or even April. And you also gave us a number, what, $2 million or so cash burn if revenue were to be 0. But if you were to look at, I don't know, March or April number, what is your cash burn rate roughly?

[Robert Drake, executive]

The cash burn rate is -- it basically wouldn't have changed. It's around the $2.3 million per day. Of course, it's offset by the net interest income that we generate, which takes it down by another $240,000, $250,000 a day. That number would go lower if we were in a 0 revenue environment. So -- which we do have some revenue here and you have to have some staff. But it's the -- we're doing our best to manage that.

And all I can say is that we're very disciplined about this approach, whereas other people, in anticipation of the recovery, took a more aggressive posture by bringing on more resources and labor to service demand that actually never materialized. So we want to see strong evidence of the recovery before we start taking on incremental labor and associated cost with that and -- which is the same philosophy we have with opening Galaxy Macau Phase 3 -- I'm sorry, Cotai Phase 3, including Raffles and the convention center. So we're doing our best to contain our cost there.

And just looking at the overall trend, you're actually -- you're absolutely right in that we started out the first part of the quarter pretty strongly and we're certainly cash flow positive at the EBITDA line, but we gave some of that back in March. But we did finish with decent results for the quarter, notwithstanding that. Unfortunately, that momentum has actually carried into -- the market trends have continued into Q2, which has resulted in very low revenue and very low -- very low visitation, which has translated into very low revenue and certainly pressure the bottom line and liquidity.

[Simon Cheung, analyst]

Sorry, can I double check. Your $2 million is actually your cash burn number at the current pace, inclusive of the maintenance CapEx and the interest? I thought it was like the -- what, the OpEx numbers minus the interest income. So that is a 0 revenue scenario? Or is that the current revenue scenario? Just wanted to make sure I understand.

[Robert Drake, executive]

We don't have a lot of revenue today, pal. You can see what the market numbers are. So it's the -- and the way we explain it is that people report OpEx burn. We define -- which is just OpEx. Cash burn, which is more indicative of where you're trying to get to cash flow -- evaluate your cash flow, ex your CapEx. So what -- we generate net interest income, not net interest expense. So our OpEx burn rate doesn't change at $ 2.3 million. Our cash burn goes down, not up, because we have the credit of interest income.

So it's -- so that's about $2 million a day. So that would -- that really differentiates us from the rest of the market. So -- and that excludes capital expenditure. We've said that all along. So it's -- and that's one of the things that you can flex on, is CapEx. So as we move forward here with having essentially Phase 3 complete, with Phase 4, you always have flexibility on how you invest your capital. But still, our long-term vision for the market hasn't changed. We're just managing against the current market conditions in the near term.

[Simon Cheung, analyst]

Understood. My last question in relation to the City Clubs. Given all the concern about satellite casino, can you give us a sense about maybe the exposure in relation to maybe staff costs? And what are some of the options you could think of in these 3 years of, I guess, grace periods?

[Robert Drake, executive]

Well, we're exploring those options with our [ Party Ds ], and certainly, the government's in the loop on what's going on. So we're finalizing our details there. We'll have an update for in the near future. Rather than speculating on what all these options could be, we'd rather be definitive and tell you what the outcome is going to be, so just be patient.

[Operator]

We'll now take our next question from Praveen Choudhary from Morgan Stanley.

[Praveen Choudhary, analyst]

I have 2 questions. The first one is you're probably the only company which is not only doing EBITDA positive, but also net income positive. So -- but in quarterly level, you don't provide it. So I just wanted to get a sense of how that came around in Q1. And what's the outlook for Q2 for that particular number? And I have one more follow-up.

[Robert Drake, executive]

Sure. As we were -- as I was just discussing with Simon here about the trend and the profitability for the quarter, you should see that we started out pretty solidly that dated back in March, notwithstanding our comments on net interest income rather than net interest expense. And even if you add back the depreciation and the like there, both our business lines, whether it's Construction Materials or gaming and entertainment, including corporate expense, where we would have reported a modest profit in both businesses. So the group would have reported a modest NPAS on a pro forma basis. And we will disclose our update on the first half of the year, but you know what the trend is going into Q2. So hopefully, we can bounce back towards the latter part of the quarter and continue on that trend. But Q2...

[Praveen Choudhary, analyst]

Congratulations. Sure, sure. Congratulations on that. I have another question on your Phase 4, where you're continuously pouring money even though Phase 3 is not fully open right now because of the current market conditions. I'm trying to understand what gives you so much confidence to continue to pour money considering, again, market has been weak for too long? I mean you have net cash, but your competitors are struggling with cash outflow. Why not slow down the investment in Phase 4? And can you confirm that $29 billion is still to be spent in Phase 4 from here?

[Robert Drake, executive]

Yes. The total project to go is about $29 billion. So that includes -- we virtually spent all of Phase 3. So it's -- majority of that $29 billion is for Phase 4. So we're moving forward. We have a long-term view. And hopefully, as we cycle out of the pandemic, that Phase 4 will be at the point where we start the fitting out and can capture the recovery of the market. So we're adjusting the schedule and trying to be a little flexible here, to your point about preserving cash.

But there's still a case out there that if the market recovers even modestly, we still don't have to raise any additional capital to fund Phases 3 and 4. So that's a unique position to be in. So if we're hopeful for a recovery, even a modest one, we should be okay. Having said that, if we have to raise some capital, it would be debt-related and I'm sure it wouldn't be a lot to finish the project. So we're taking a longer-term view, intermediate-term view. We understand that the market is going to be choppy here and it's very difficult when we'll cycle out of this. But by the time Phase 4 is ready to go, hopefully, the market will be well underway to a full recovery, if not at a full recovery.

[Praveen Choudhary, analyst]

Got it. Can I just ask one more last question, if I may. In May holidays, we found that the revenue number or GGR, and also in April actually, has been meaningfully lower than visitation. It seems like visitation is doing better. Or put it differently, revenue per head has been under pressure. Do you have any idea why that could be? Is that the same thing that you mentioned about Guangdong versus non-Guangdong is characterizing this? Or is there something that we are missing?

[Robert Drake, executive]

Well, if you look at the restrictions of getting into Macau, it changes daily, but it's like plus or minus 30 cities and districts and many provinces that it's -- you have to jump through more hoops to get through in order to visit Macau. I think that's just a function of integration policy and really trying to contain the pandemic and -- which, of course, [ shorts ] visitation. And I wouldn't read too much into it more than that.

So what we've seen through the first quarter, where it wasn't as tight to get into Macau that -- look at our retail business. We had our second best quarter ever. So there's strong demand out there. And I think the highest priority remains public health and safety and as well as economic and social stability here within Macau. I'm sure you saw the paper today where they reiterated their comment is supporting the central government, 0 dynamic, 0 management policy. So it's -- that's where we are, and we'll do our best to just navigate through it operationally here and we're very fortunate that we have a balance sheet to provide some cushion there. But it's certainly pressuring everyone in the market.

[Operator]

We will now take our next question from D. S. Kim, JPMorgan.

[D. S. Kim, analyst]

Bob, I have a couple of housekeeping questions. And the first one is about cash flow. I was wondering if you could help us break down that $2 billion cash decline during the quarter, I guess. Our operating cash flow was probably offset by CapEx, $800 million during the quarter, but the balance, the chips liability you mentioned was a couple of million -- couple hundred million dollars. I was just wondering if you could share the balance on that working capital changes. And I have a couple of follow-ups after this.

[Robert Drake, executive]

Sure. Great question. The change in cash was about $2.5 billion on a net cash basis. So of course the outflow was associated, $800 million of that was associated with Cotai Phases 3 and 4. Existing properties was another $100 million on top of that. We did have some big swings in working capital, as I said, that the unredeemed chip liability decline. We also, although we accrued for it, we certainly paid out some -- our Chinese New Year bonuses and -- so that added a good chunk of it. The decline in value of the Wynn shares, that contributed to it. So -- but that would make up a majority of it. So it's the usual working capital changes when you have such a steep decline in revenue and reduction in tax liabilities and things of that nature.

[D. S. Kim, analyst]

And secondly, can I just confirm that the only change in our luck normalization is to remove mass-related adjustment now? And did we -- are we continuing to keep that 2.85% or 3% theoretical win rate adjustment for VIP program?

[Robert Drake, executive]

Great question. Thank you for asking it. It's the -- when we studied this, you can see that, you're right, it's going to be based on rolling programs going forward, as we said. And we did provide some backward adjustments just so it's based solely on rolling.

When we looked at the math, what we saw wasn't really luck. It was a change in consumer behavior where some of our customers are coming less frequently, they're spending more. And if you look at it in mathematical terms, extreme performance outside of, say, 2 standard deviations, there really wasn't any. So -- and it's difficult to really calculate a theoretical hold and the like given that it changes all the time.

So what we're looking for is really, when we say there's normalized luck and mass, we're looking for those guys who really either play lucky or play unlucky. And we haven't been seeing that. And that's why we made the decision to revert back to rolling programs where it's -- there's plenty of volume to have a statistically significant sample. And we base it on life-to-date performance in our rolling programs. And right now, that's limited down to our JinMen. So it's -- as you can see, we played modestly lucky. So it's the -- it just seems more indicative of the current operating environment.

[D. S. Kim, analyst]

Yes. I think that makes a lot of sense, and it will make us more comparable to our peers. And final question I have is when -- if we assume -- I think you only had JinMen for the first quarter, so 100% of the volumes must be direct program. Then did I calculate correctly that our direct VIP volumes more than doubled quarter-over-quarter sequentially? And if that were the case, do you have any stats or observation to share with us on perhaps the mix of players say, like, how much of that player rolling came from the existing member versus newly signed up possibly from the previous junket pay channels and whatnot? If you have anything to share, would be really appreciated.

[Robert Drake, executive]

Sure. Great questions. And when you think about our rolling programs in Q1, it was based solely on our JinMen and premium direct. As we previously reported that we didn't have -- there's no VIP junket business to report on.

So what we did see, and I think we talked about this on our last call in February when we released our Q4 results and our annual '21 results is basically we've seen some migration there's -- from the VIP junkets to our premium direct and our mass business, because customers still want to come to Macau. It's just a question of how they do it. So whether they do it through the junkets, which provide all the logistical service, or just come direct through our premium programs, of course, we have both in our JinMen and our mass programs that service these customers.

So it's -- we've seen some migration to play there. But the real -- the jury is really out to see how sustainable that trend is. Is it going to normalize down to a sustainable level? Was it an artificial spike? It just remains to be seen. And so we're -- we'll be studying that very clearly. It's just too early to call the definitive trends exacerbated by the current market conditions where it's really difficult to visit Macau. So more on that as we move forward, and it's a great question. But of course [indiscernible]...

[Operator]

We will now take a question from George Choi from Citi.

[George Choi, analyst]

So a quick question from me. Can you please remind us how many new staff do you plan to hire for Phase 3? And does that number change now that you have quite a bit of your VIP capacity being freed up since last year?

[Robert Drake, executive]

Yes. And of course, labor is -- we're one of the -- first of all, with Galaxy Macau, with Phase 3 and Phase 4, Phase 3 in particular, they're not new integrated resorts. Raffles is a new hotel tower at Galaxy Macau and the convention and the Andaz are right across the street, they're not really integrated resorts and the extension of Galaxy Macau if you want to look it that way.

And that really helps from an infrastructure standpoint, including when you open that you don't need as much labor. And we're doing our best to reallocate our nonlocal labor and our local labor to service our Raffles as it comes there. And what we've seen through with some of our training programs and through development programs that some of the locals who are in the gaming area of the business are game to explore different career alternatives in the nongaming sector, including hotels and food and beverage and the like there. So -- and we're investing in training the folks that really want to engage and shift their careers into a different part of the business.

So the headcount is based really on demand, George. We'll see that it's -- the 450-room, all-suite tower, we're very excited about it. We can ramp it up very quickly. It would take maybe less than 90 days or so to say that once we get the green -- Francis gives us the green light to move forward to really ramp up and go through simulation and be prepared for an opening.

Headcount could be, as we said before, in the 700 range. But it's -- hopefully, that's -- a lot of that comes from reallocation of the existing workforce.

[Operator]

Thank you. There are no further questions in the queue at this time. I will turn the call back to your host.

[Robert Drake, executive]

Great. Thank you very much, everyone, for participating in today's call. We look forward to updating you on our Q2 and first half results probably during the month of August. Thank you very much.

[Operator]

Ladies and gentlemen, that will conclude today's conference. You may now all disconnect.