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DFDS AS
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Welcome to the DFDS Q3 report 2020. [Operator Instructions] Please note, the call is being recorded. Today, I am pleased to present to you CEO, Torben Carlsen; and CFO, Karina Deacon. Please begin your meeting.
Good morning, everybody. Joining us today is also Søren Brøndholt, Head of Investor Relations. As you know, we raised our outlook already in October when it became clear that we are in a much more stable and stronger situation since demand started to recover in late Q2 than we expected. You can see that our freight business was even stronger than Q3 last year. And as things look now with the stockpiling happening in U.K., we expect strong freight demand also for the remainder of the year.The passenger business is, on the other hand, doing worse than we expected after Q2. We have indexed 10 in -- on many of the routes with regard to passengers. The good news, if you can talk about good news is that there's no further downside from the passenger business at this moment in time. We talked about in Q2 changes we have done to our business model, both in freight and in passengers. And we can see that some of those initiatives are what is paying off for us today. But let's take a closer look at the quarter.On Page 3, we state that there is a continued focus on keeping operational locations safe, including vessels. This is more important than ever as the second COVID outbreaks take speed across Europe. We've seen outbreaks on both some of our vessels and some of our port locations. With our crisis management team, we seem to be in a very good position to handle those situations and have been able to continue operations everywhere as planned.When we look at the Q3 freight volumes, they were up 1% and a little bit more in October, as you can see on the graph to the right. Those volume increases, of course, also indicate that the gains we've seen in the freight business when we compare to 2019, are not driven by much higher or stronger freight volumes than last year, but rather than a very strong cost picture and efficiency picture, partly driven by the adaptations that we continuously do to our operation, whether that is how we handle empty or reduced operational warehouses, port operations and vessels throughout this period. Of course, on the other hand, passenger volumes are heavily reduced due to the tighter travel restrictions.With this short introduction, over to Karina, who will give you more details on the numbers.
Yes. Thank you, Torben. If we look at Slide 4, overall top line down 20%, and EBITDA declined 29%, and no surprise, it's to a very large degree impacted by the passenger activity, they were exceptionally hard hit by the travel restrictions and lockdowns. And that alone meant that decline in EBITDA of DKK 445 million. And that meant that the rest of our business improved EBITDA by almost DKK 100 million. Freight ferry improved by DKK 87 million. And as Torben said, very much driven by the cost improvement and adaptations of the organization. Also, in the logistics division, they did very well, and they reported an EBITDA up 36% and also the result of tight cost control and cost savings throughout the system there. For the nonallocated items, it's a bit of a technicality. We reported DKK 30 million worse than last quarter -- or last year's quarter. But as you might recall, we saw a different picture in Q2, and this is simply because we are now sharing the savings with the divisions that we have seen in the first half of the year at HQ levels.So let's turn to Slide 5. The 20% driven by a 61% drop in passenger revenue, that was DKK 639 million less revenue from passenger activities in Q3, so a significant number for us. If we look at freight and logistics and take out the passenger activities, we will see freight revenue being down 4% from the ferry business and while logistics were up 1%. So with the EBITDA improvements we saw in both ferry and logistics, that actually meant significant margin improvements in both divisions. So if we take out the passenger business, we saw a ferry increasing from 27% to 32%, and we saw logistics improving from 8.5% to 11.5%.Further down in the P&L, depreciation was 4% lower than last year. It was on level with Q2. But when we compare to the third quarter of '19, we had returned some chartered ships and under the IFRS rules, we see that, that means a lower depreciation rate. Finance cost, a decrease of DKK 8 million. But underlying that, we actually had a positive variance on currency adjustments. So the interest cost in itself increased. Special items reported at DKK 62 million, all related to the restructuring we announced at the end of Q2. We have, as you saw in Q2, announced 650 people leaving DFDS. Since then, it was increased to 800 million (sic) [ 800 employees ] . So we now saw more redundancy cost, which now for Q2 and Q3 in combination amounts to DKK 129 million.If we turn to Slide 6 on the capital overview, a slight increase in total assets due to the new buildings being included now. The positive news from the balance sheet side is the working capital. We reduced that by almost DKK 400 million compared to Q3 '19. The positive news there also fed into our cash flow, which we saw was being positive when we adjust for the lease impact, we saw it being positive of DKK 313 million. Due to a positive working capital impact.If we turn to the ROIC, it was now a decrease to 3.5%, clearly very much impacted by the ROIC in the passenger business. The final thing to note on this slide is when we look at the net interest-bearing debt to EBITDA ratio, it was 4.3. It was better than we expected, which clearly also means that we are well within the updated covenants that we talked about after Q2.Let's turn to look in further detail on our ferry business. We saw volumes on level with last year and 1% up with adjusted on a like-for-like basis. If we take North Sea first, EBITDA down DKK 18 million. But please remember that we are up against tough comps, but because we had the DTF income in Q3 last year. Volumes up 2% on a like-for-like basis, driven by high activity in the U.K. to the continent, and that offset a lower activity, particularly on our Swedish routes, where, as you know, the automotive industry was a little bit late in recovering. Positive story in Q2 continued in Q3, and the Baltics volumes up 7% if we adjust for the restructuring. As we also talked about after Q2, the volume increase was followed by certain price pressure. So we did see a decline in the freight-related EBITDA as well. But the majority of the decline came from the passenger business, even though we only "saw a decline of numbers -- passenger numbers of 22%."On the channel, also a positive story on the freight side. Volumes slightly up. We saw us gaining market shares after our competitors have reduced capacity. And following the increased volumes and also cost savings and fewer sailings, we saw a good development in EBITDA from the freight business. However, the impact from the tax meant that overall, we reported a DKK 98 million decline in the channel business EBITDA. The exceptional quarter for the BU passenger, of course, is also visible on the EBITDA. We reported a loss for Q3. It is the high season. So we were up against the tough comparisons, so a decline of DKK 235 million compared to the same quarter last year.Mediterranean. We saw some good news from that side in the quarter. We have seen a slower but gradual recovery during Q3 in terms of volumes. September were above last year, and that trend continued into October. That was partly driven by higher exports, but also the fact that we regained some market share from land transport as our air travel for drivers was eased. Despite the Q3 overall, volumes declined 4%, revenues were up, driven by higher unit revenue, and that meant that we could report a higher EBITDA, DKK 27 million above last year. But I will say that the underlying improvement is actually higher because we also included a DKK 20 million cost related to a volume commitment to a port terminal.Turning to logistics, strong quarter in terms of earnings on the back of volume slightly down in '19. In the Nordics, volumes were up 2% as the Finnish acquisition outweighed a little bit of a slowdown in Sweden due to the impact from automotive, but the tight cost control across the business, that meant that we saw a DKK 12 million improvement in EBITDA. On the continent, we saw a 5% decline in volumes also related to the automotive, but also due to a decline in the special cargo division servicing the construction sector. However, when we look at the special cargo division, we did see an improvement in their business, improved efficiency and cost savings, and that contributed to a total improvement in the continent on EBITDA level of DKK 8 million.Finally, if we look at the U.K. Ireland, we did see a slight increase in volumes, mainly due to higher domestic activity with growth in the Immingham/Belfast transport services. Also here, we benefited from low-cost due to a strict site follow-up and also a more efficient agency structure that we implemented.That concludes the review of the numbers. So back to you, Torben.
Thank you very much, Karina. And before we talk about the outlook, just a brief session on Brexit, where we are now all looking forward to the 1st of January and the end of the transition period. We have organization and systems in place for this transition. We will be offering customs clearance services to our customers. We have 100 people in place, including people in our back office center in Poland, to make sure we have the right skills and competencies and resources for the channels. We are almost complete in integrating our operating systems with a different government customs systems. And we can see as the challenge becomes more and more evident for our customers that we receive a lot of requests from ferry and logistics customers for DFDS to assist them with this transition.The more curious note, we, of course, are continuing the planning of duty-free sales. It is fair to say that with the current passenger situation, this is, of course, not something that will take off with a very heavy impact in January. But hopefully, as things normalize on the passenger side, we'll see some benefit from this. All in all, all the things we are doing here will support the department for transport, making sure that flow of goods will continue from Europe into the U.K. come January 1.Turning to Page 12. We raised the outlook already late October from the previous DKK 2.2 billion to DKK 2.5 billion EBITDA to now DKK 2.5 billion to DKK 2.7 billion. We see the decrease in freight volumes for the full year, less than 5%, where we previously have mentioned less than 10%. And also, as mentioned in the introduction, we will not see further disappointment from the passenger in this outlook as we already have a very, very conservative outlook for passengers for the rest of the year. But of course, uncertainty remains high with the COVID second wave consequences and also if something happens now for the next couple of months leading up to the Brexit transition. We have not made changes to our investment outlook, which continues to stand at DKK 1.6 billion. We can now see that expectations are that we will actually have a positive free cash flow for 2020 despite our heavy investments and the challenges for our passenger divisions through the year.Turning to Page 12. What are then our strategic priorities looking ahead? We need to manage the Brexit transition best possible and as a business opportunity as we indicated on the other Brexit slide. We must continue to see organic growth in our freight parts of the businesses. We see a very good response to our more commercially focused and stronger business and organizational structure that we implemented in June. We need to increase, of course, the passenger ROIC, but that is COVID related, but we also need to see improvement to the Mediterranean return. And Q3 was a very strong testament to that we are on the right path to achieve this. Then the ongoing adjustments of our passenger offerings will continue so that we are ready to meet our customers when they can travel again with a different mindset and a slightly different offering, addressing more the transport needs than we have done in the past. COVID-19 and all the consequences of this is bound to show opportunities for a company like DFDS that is financially strong. We are looking into a number of different things and hope to see that some of these can turn into new business opportunities over the next quarters or so.With this, we will turn over for questions. So please go ahead.
[Operator Instructions] So our first question comes from the line of Dan Togo from Carnegie.
Yes, it's Dan Togo here from Carnegie. Maybe on Brexit. The costs -- or are there any particular costs that we should be aware of triggered by this buildup of this organization, I guess, also training of people, et cetera that is negatively impacting here in '20 that we should not sort of say begin for '21? And then these costs, and I guess there would be a lot of advent relating to cost, et cetera. How should we look at that going forward? Will you be able, so to say, to see that as an additional, so to say, income stream where we basically charge a fee? Or is it just a pass-through? Or could it even be back by and be a negative part for '21 on costs? So how should we look at this Brexit transition?
We have built cost for the last 4 years in this area. Of course, we've been conservative in the beginning, and we are more bold now in hiring and training of people. Many of the people we've taken on and have retrained, have been able to perform normal jobs in parallel. So it's very difficult for us to say exactly how much the extra cost has been for 2020, but it will be a double-digit million number. However, going forward, we will start to see revenue coming from this cost as well, and we expect normal commercial margins and growth from this. So in all the Brexit debacle this will be a positive that we will -- and we can see now that there's very high demand from customers. We've actually had to turn customers away if they haven't been able to commit before a certain deadline to make sure that we can provide a good service. So this will just be an add-on offering that we will have going forward, with hopefully, normal margins.
Okay. And then your communication with clients going into '21, are you getting any feedback or any insights into how they will behave in '21? I mean I guess they confront you if they have new business opportunity, and they want to secure space for transport. Are you seeing a lot of these initiatives? Or is it a bit, so to say, more slow than usual on that front? Just to get an indication of how clients are behaving going into Brexit.
That has -- obviously, there is building off of inventories now in Q4. We expect volumes to drop in Q1. We can see there is more demand for warehousing space and space for trailers, et cetera, because people fear a little bit that the flow will not be as usual. But there's nothing dramatic that you should expect to see from us other than these new business opportunities in customs clearance and maybe some storage that we will offer. Customers are not able to see through more dramatic changes that could potentially come from this.
Okay. And then just maybe some household, if I may. The cost savings that you have now amounted to a DKK 300 million with DKK 100 million effect here in '20 and the latter, I guess, DKK 200 million in '21. Is that primarily in passengers? Or is some of this having effect in ferry as well? That's the one thing.And the other thing is on redundancy, so far 129 here now in the first 9 months. How much should we expect of redundancies for the full year?
Yes. Dan, let me answer that one. Of the DKK 300 million, the majority is, of course, related to the passenger because it's very much the number of people that we have reduced. But we do also have some synergies from some of the commercial changes we made, where we made some changes between ferry and logistics. So -- but overall, I would apply, let's say, maybe 60%, 70% of that to the passenger business.Of the redundancy cost, we have not completed our discussions with the French union. As you know, that's a pretty tough one. So we cannot be 100% sure that this is all. However, when we look at the provisions we have made now, we think it will be marginal if and when we will see more in Q4.
Our next question comes from the line of Marcus Bellander from Nordea.
Yes. 3 questions, if I may. The first one regarding the mix changes and increased competition that you mentioned in the report. Could you elaborate a little bit on that?
We have seen some increased competition in the Baltics. I think that's maybe where we mentioned that, which is similar to what we've talked about before that a competitor has started some savings into Klaipeda, I am not sure. You have to help us a little bit with the mix changes, where -- in which context is that mentioned?
Well, for example, if I look at the North Sea, the revenue per lane meter there is down, I think, 6% quarter-on-quarter, and it's the lowest it has been in a long time.
One of the things that have happened in the North Sea is that we moved the volumes from our own special cargo business from a competitor to DFDS. They were not ideally located geographically, and we had to reduce their rates to make it overall an interesting proposition for logistics. So that is some of the mix changes we were alluding to. That has driven down the rate per meter. Then, of course, the oil price have gone down like-for-like in the quarter. So that has also driven down the rate per meter. But of course, with a corresponding saving in fuel.
Okay. Understood. And my second question concerns the ship operation and maintenance costs, which are pretty low, at least as a percentage of sales for the second quarter in a row. And I'm just wondering if there's an element of maintenance being postponed? And if so, if you could quantify that effect?
It's, of course, a difficult adjustment. We have asked the organization to be cautious with costs in this period. We do not believe that this will lead to significantly increased maintenance cost in '21. But could there be some millions that have been postponed? Absolutely. But it's not a major shift. Part of it has also been that there has been less activity with some of the vessels.
Okay. Okay. That's good to hear. And the final question, I guess, it's similar to what Dan just asked, but I'm just curious if you've noticed any change in behavior among customers after the new or the stricter COVID-19 measures were implemented here over the past few weeks across Europe?
There are some concerns that with these measures, it could start impacting demand again as it did in April. But we've not been able to measure it scientifically at this stage. But it's obvious when restaurants and bars and major part of the social activities in society stop, that there are certain activities that we also carry out that will be impacted. So we are expecting some impact from this second COVID phase on these particular areas like food service, et cetera.
Okay. And will that be in Q4? Or is it in...
It's in Q4, but it's -- quite frankly, it's drowning in the effect of the Brexit buildup. So it's not something we can separate and say this will have a major demand -- a demand impact at this stage.
The next question comes from the line of Casper Blom from ABG Sundal Collier.
Just a couple of quick questions from my side. I just want to follow-up on the Brexit stock building thesis. I suppose it seems fair to assume that there will be some stock building here in Q4 and then a flipping point in Q1. Can you quantify how much you have included in your guidance of a positive effect from a Brexit stock building here in Q4, which we would then, I guess, have to deduct in Q1 '21?
I don't know that we can quantify that. We could try to look to previous -- we have some empirical data here from before when they have done this, but it's basically -- you can see the October volumes that we are showing here, we are 2% up compared to last year. And I think before we've seen some 10% drops following a quarter of buildup. So I think it would not be unusual to see drops of 10% or thereabout in Q1 in volumes.
Okay. Fair enough. And then secondly, a question regarding pricing. I mean after sort of the volume rebound seen in the, I would say, almost global freight here in September, October, we hear some shippers complaining about tight capacity and sometimes it's difficult to actually get things transported. Have you seen any possibilities of raising prices on the back of things like that?
Not really. We have focused on maintaining the good capacities that we offered to the market also during the hard periods where other competitors reduced capacity, so that we have kept the market shares we gained over the summer. And in -- to our belief in this Ro-Ro market, there's not really been opportunities to increase prices. And I think the difference we've seen to previous years is that customers have been much more focused on making sure that their supply chains run and operate. So maybe the price pressure we have seen previously has eased both in the ferry freight and in the logistics area. And therefore, the cost-saving initiatives that we have been able to complete are showing quite well in the bottom line.
Our next question comes from the line of [ Orich Bach ] from SEB.
Also a few questions from my side. A question on the operational leverage for ferry in Q3, which was at a similar level as in Q2 at around at least 40% and that is significantly lower than the usual operating leverage level. Can you talk a bit about how you have managed to keep this operational leverage at these levels? I know you've mentioned the staff reductions and less sailings on the channel. But on the other hand, less data, it should have the opposite effect during Q3 compared to Q2. But if you can elaborate a bit on that and also provide an indication on what we could expect for Q4.
I'm not sure where you get the 40% in Q3 from. It's true that we did see an extraordinary drop in Q2. But we see it normalizing in Q3, the leverage.
Okay. Just when you take the delta in EBITDA and the delta in revenue for ferry, I get to this 40-ish percent. Okay. But never mind, let's go to -- yes. Next question on the staff reduction of these 800 employees. How much of this reduction is driven by less passenger activity? And how much could you say is more structural? Can you elaborate on that?
Yes, a very large degree, is related to the passenger business. And when we say passenger, just bear in mind, also going back to Dan's question, it's not only the BU passenger, it's also when we talk passenger on the channel. But a very significant part of these 800 positions are related to passenger. And that would be maybe 75% up to 80% of that related to passenger direct or indirectly. And part of that is, of course, the direct impact of lower activity. But also, as we've talked about before, we have changed the concept, et cetera, so we can operate the ships going forward with less staff.
Okay. So what could you expect when activity picks up again following COVID restrictions and everything? Could you expect that these numbers will -- that some of these people will be rehired?
Well, in general, when we see increasing volumes, we might have to employ some of our people back and that goes across. But the vast majority of these people we can do without on a long-term as well.
Okay. And then a question on the agreement that you have with the U.K.'s Department for Transport. Can you, in any way, quantify the size of this deal, maybe in comparison to previous agreements?
We cannot quantify it at this stage. It depends very much -- there are some termination clauses for DfT. It will in all likelihood be less than the income from the DfT agreement in 2019.
I guess it's fair to say public knowledge is that it's GBP 78 million distributed by 4 ferry companies.
Yes, the maximum, but the -- if things go well, we are not likely to get the maximum. So it could be a significantly lower amount than last time.
The next question comes from the line of Ruairi Cullinane from RBC.
My first question relates to operations in the Mediterranean, where clearly, financial performance has improved. And you mentioned that you've completed the scrubber investments there. I was also interested to hear if you could now fly drivers directly to Italy. And if you're happy with operations at Trieste?
We can fly them to Slovenia, which is the closest you get to Trieste anyway. And we are quite happy with the -- both that, of course, we can fly drivers again and also with the operation in Trieste, even now when volumes are back, it's significantly improved from the situation last year.
Okay. Great. And so you mentioned geopolitical risks in Turkey. But clearly, the lira slide has recently come to an end, owing to Central Bank leadership. I was just interested how you and customers were thinking about the macro backdrop in Turkey?
What we have seen is that when the significant Turkish lira drop set in that the imbalance increased again a little bit with less import coming into Turkey, whereas we had actually seen quite strong import driven growth as well before that. We have not started the latest development, but I thought that his son-in-law, I think, resigned as a Finance Minister, and I saw a relatively strong comeback of the Lira, maybe on the back of the vaccines. But we can see that Turkey functions well despite the COVID situation, production continues. And the weakness we see is that import is not as strong as we would have liked, but it's being compensated by strong exports.
Great. And finally, would you be able to give an indication of the contribution of your logistics acquisition at the turn of the year?
Do we have the -- we have these -- we had Huisman and Freeco that we acquired in December and then a small, Colley Brothers, in March. Their EBIT year-to-date -- my guess is that they may be year-to-date have contributed DKK 15 million, maybe DKK 20 million EBIT.
At around 10% on a full year basis EBITDA.
10%, what?
Of the logistics, total EBITDA.
Okay. Which is then...
Yes. About 450...
Yes. They are contributing according to plan. Probably, my guess is it would be DKK 20 million or so after EBIT, and maybe DKK 25 million, DKK 30 million EBIT year-to-date. Rough estimates, sorry for not having the exact numbers.
Our next question comes from the line of Stefan Roehle from KfW IPEX-Bank.
My first question also relates to the Mediterranean situation. You said that you gained some market share. So could you provide some details? I think the last time you said that you have lost about 7%. So how much did you did you regain here? And what are the perspectives? Also, I read that the German Hamburg port, they took a stake in a new terminal in Trieste. I know it's mostly container, but also a Ro-Ro terminal. So could this then prospectively change some things with respect to your operations in the Mediterranean?
We -- when we talk about market share in Mediterranean, it's versus the drivers, overland. And due to the question we had before from drivers not being able to be flown to Trieste and France, we lost market share to the tune of 6, 7 percentage points. We are seeing some recovery there, not a complete recovery, but maybe a couple of percentage points gained back recently.With regard to the new terminal being built in Trieste, there is already space -- terminal space, so we don't expect this primarily container-focused terminal to change anything. We are the only operator from Turkey to Italy with a Ro-Ro service.
Okay. And then again, with the look -- second question to the Brexit and to the situation there, you also said that you gained some market share there. So I think that P&O ferries, they took out some vessels, but now they restart again to use more vessels. So is it only -- so is it a permanent gain of the market share that you could make there?And the second thing is, I read some comments from the Port of Rosslare, they think to establish routes directly from Ireland to Continental Europe. I know there are still some routes, I think, from Brittany Paris. But could this be really an option for you or other competitors? A direct link from Ireland to Continental Europe? Or is the U.K. still the most important transfer region for exports going to Ireland and vice versa?
Stefan, that was -- they were long questions, but let me try to see if -- I remember the first one was market shares. We don't know if market shares will persist. We -- P&O have already put in operation their fourth vessel, which seems to be what they want to do. That will obviously impact slightly our market shares. But we still feel that there is a good situation on the channel from a freight perspective.With regard to new routes, there are routes today from Ireland to Cherbourg in France. Whether the situation with Brexit will lead to new activity between Ireland and continent remains to be seen.
The next question comes from the line of Lars Heindorff from SEB.
Also a few questions from my side, please. The first 2 regarding sort of get a bit of sense for how you have adjusted your capacity and how you maybe will adjust capacity during this pandemic? You talked a little bit about the channel. You've been -- as far as I understand, been keeping 6 vessels there, P&L down to 4 vessels, so maybe even lower at some point. What's the reasoning behind keeping the 6 vessels? And could you -- or would you consider maybe to lower the amount of vessels should we have a sort of more escalation of a second wave?
We have, during this period, reduced to 5 as well -- during periods. And now with the Brexit looming there is a need for all 6 vessels. We then managed capacity by reducing sailings across the 6 vessels. In the beginning, we reduced more or less, capacity-wise, the same as P&O. But because of the frequency, we have been able to gain some market share. So I guess it depends a little bit -- P&O have larger vessels. So I'm quite sure it makes sense for them to reduce the way they have done in terms of the savings in vessels, whereas with our slightly, on average, smaller vessels, it has -- makes sense to do it the way we have done. And overall, it has, of course, been good market-wise, that we both have taken out capacity either through reduced vessels or through reduced departures.
Okay. And then on still staying in the passenger business, on Copenhagen, Oslo. You've taken out now one of the vessels there. What would it require for that to return? Or any views on that?
Well, Norway would have to open their borders for Danish citizens. Right now, only vital workers or what do we call them -- are able to enter Norway, so -- and Norwegians going to Denmark will endure 10 days quarantine. So this would have to change for us to deploy the second vessel again.
And then the third one is on the Baltics. You've made some changes out there. And to be honest, I'm not entirely sure exactly how this has been going on, at least on the Paldiski-Hanko route as I understand. And I can see actually that invested capital is up quite considerably. How much more capacity have you actually deployed, if you have deployed more? But I assume that will be more there since invested capital is up that much.
The changes we have made is that we have basically stopped our own operation on the Paldiski-Hanko route, which was never a commercial success. And we have then diverted some of the capacity to our Paldiski-Kapellskr route. If there is an increase in invested capital in Baltics, then it's -- when seen over the quarter, we have moved a vessel from another division. We obviously haven't acquired new vessels or entered new lease arrangements. But we will investigate that further and you can, if you want, I'm sure Søren can give you your precise answer after the call.
Okay. No, no, that's fine. And then the last one is on business opportunities. In your presentation, you said that you had a strong balance sheet, despite what I would call sort of a fair degree of leverage, if you look at net debt to EBITDA. And then that you are looking at new business opportunities. Can you give us a little bit more on that?
There is nothing just around the corner. But we do, of course, see that different segments have developed very differently during this pandemic. So we are monitoring this closely to see where there could be opportunities that we should pursue, either in the ferry space or in the logistics space.
But will the agreement that you have made now, I think it was earlier this year, with the banks, will that allows you to go out and make acquisitions?
Yes, it would.
And in terms of size, can you give us any indications?
No. But we do not feel that we are restrained from the opportunities that we think could be relevant.
[Operator Instructions] There are no further questions at this time. I'll pass back to the speakers. Thank you.
Thank you very much. And thank you, everybody, for joining the call and for the many good questions. We've tried to lay out, of course, the reasons for the strong performance in Q3 and also talked about the challenges on the passenger side. We hope you have a good feeling for where our priorities lie for 2021. And we look forward to meeting you in the next quarterly call. Have a good day.