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Kepler Weber SA
BOVESPA:KEPL3

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Kepler Weber SA
BOVESPA:KEPL3
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Price: 9.45 BRL -1.87% Market Closed
Market Cap: 1.7B BRL
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Earnings Call Transcript

Earnings Call Transcript
2022-Q3

from 0
Operator

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Earnings Call for Kepler Weber, where we will discuss our results for the Third Quarter of 2022. We have with us today, Piero Abbondi, Director and CEO; Paulo Polezi, CFO and Investor Relations Director; and Bernardo Nogueira, a Commercial Director, who will be in the Q&A.

I'd like to inform you that this presentation is being recorded, and it's been simultaneously translated. You may listen to the translation by clicking on the interpretation button. If you are listening in English, you can also mute the original audio. The slides for this presentation will be available on our chat box and in the company's website, ri.kepler.com.br. It will be available in Portuguese and English. [Operator Instructions] After that, we will begin the questions-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions]

We'd like to clarify that any statements made during this conference call refer to the company's business perspectives. It also refers to their operational and financial goals, which are simply beliefs and assumptions from the company's directors, which may or may not come to pass. Investors should understand that political factors, macroeconomic factors and other operational factors may affect the company's future and may lead to results that differ from the ones expressed on these remarks.

So to start this conference call, we will speak to Mr. Piero Abbondi. Go ahead, sir.

P
Piero Abbondi
executive

Good morning, everyone. It's a pleasure to be here with you for Kepler's conference call. On Slide 3, we see the third quarter of 2022, which was marked by better results maintaining the premium brand position and our operational excellence, which combined, allowed us to have profitable business across all of our segments. Our first highlight was a growth of 56% in net revenue versus the third quarter of 2021, nearly BRL 516 million. This is the biggest revenue -- the biggest net revenue we have ever had in a quarter in the company's history. Paulo will talk about how each segment performed to linger on.

Our second highlight was our EBITDA, which went up 160%, reaching nearly BRL 156 million, another historical record. Our EBITDA margin reached 30% higher than the third quarter of 2021, and also higher than the second quarter of 2022. This was due to efficient operational management in our plants and in the project implementation area, along with good price management with our clients. I cannot forget that supply chains have stabilized, and that also contributed significantly towards our results. Similarly, net income went up a strong 181%, reaching BRL 116 million this quarter.

I will now pass it over to Paulo, who will talk about how each business performed in the [ third quarter ].

P
Paulo Polezi
executive

Thank you, Piero. Good morning, everyone. Moving on to Slide 4. This is how our 5 business areas have performed. Starting with Post-Harvest. We went up 57.5% this quarter and 47% for the first 9 months of 2022. This is due to the strong portfolio we built from previous quarters and the good moment in which the Brazilian agribusiness industry is doing, along with our success in capturing new business. International Business also performed very well, up 31.9% this quarter and 45% in the first 9 months of 2022. Exports are still being boosted by higher prices for the main ag commodities and due to the company's premium position in the international market.

In Ports and Terminals, we made BRL 13.7 million this quarter and BRL 19.6 million in the first 9 months of 2022. This quarter, we continued developing the exports terminal in the Santos port, and we also began another project in the Paranagua terminal. In Agribusiness, our revenue was BRL 10.5 million this quarter and BRL 152 million this year, due to the 3 projects we delivered for clients in Dourados in Mato Grosso do Sul. However, in the third quarter of 2022, our revenue went -- excuse me, our income went down due to the high volume of deliveries in the first half of the year. Finally, in Replacements and Services, we had an increase of 19.5% this quarter and 24.4% in the first 9 months due to a larger coverage now strengthened by our 2 new distribution centers in Balsas and Paragominas, which started operating this quarter.

Slides 5 and 6 shows some of the projects we delivered this quarter. And this goes to show how [Technical Difficulty]. Clients do not want to get involved with third parties and our project implementation team allowed this construction to continue perfectly within schedule. In the Confresa project, construction to place near the main road passing through the town in [ the Xingu ] District, and Kepler has [Technical Difficulty] after harvest in the region. In Cruz Alta, clients are using stretch to transport part of their harvest [Technical Difficulty] and they found in Kepler a partner that would give them equipment quality and [ neutrality ].

On Slide [ 6 ], we have Barquisimeto in Venezuela, whose highlight was delivering equipment prepared for an earthquake according to international standards. Finally, the Rincon project in Uruguay was important and this project was working for our clients to minimize their storage deficit preventing against high cost or storage in other units.

Slide 7 shows our new orders. Here, we see 6 different contracts for the third quarter, which [ to get come to sum of BRL 93 million ] in new sales. Here, we can see that the Post-Harvest segment has required larger projects considering we have increasingly higher harvests and harvesting speed. On average, they are above BRL 25 million when we consider capital equipment and infrastructure, which is the client's responsibility.

Slide 8, shows our EBITDA in the third quarter of 2022. We generated BRL 155.8 million, a margin of 30.2% and an increase of 160% versus the third quarter of 2021, where our margin was 18.1%. Our strong EBITDA growth shows how we advanced in productive activity and how margins have been growing in business areas. And this is due to an efficient operational management and good price management at the end.

Slide 9 shows our CapEx. In the third quarter of 2022, investments reached BRL 12 million, most of which 63% was used to increase our manufacturing capacity in our operations in Panambi and Campo Grande.

On Slide 10, we see our cash availability, which remained strong closing September with a gross balance of BRL 298.7 million and a net cash of BRL 152.4 million. It's important to highlight that we had fast cash conversion, which allowed the company to continue to invest and pay out BRL 33 million in dividends and JCPs, conserving our excellent financial liquidity.

Slide 11, shows how our liquidity is performing for our stock KEPL3. Its monthly average financial volume reached BRL 28.4 million a day. The best historical average in this trade.

Slide 12, shows our return on invested capital for the third quarter of 2022, which went up 51.3 percentage points versus the third quarter of 2021, reaching a strong 107.5%. I would like to highlight that a high ROIC is one of the best qualities of our business, allowing us to add manufacturing capacity without needing higher investments.

As we mentioned on Slide 13, we see the payment of BRL 14.3 million in dividends and BRL 18.7 million JCP, which was paid on the September 8 as a way of demonstrating our commitment to increasing shareholder returns.

I'll now return it over to Piero.

P
Piero Abbondi
executive

Thank you, Paulo. Before we talk about our future perspectives. On Slide 15, we see a number of awards and acknowledgments that Kepler received during this quarter. I will mention some of them. We were fifth place in financial performance and fifth place in future vision at Epoca Negocios. We were ranked among the top 20 companies to work for in the large company category for GPTW, and we won the top of a top award in silos and storage for 25 consecutive years.

Before the Q&A, I'd like to highlight on Slide 16, some recent accomplishments, and then I'll talk about some prospects for 2022. When it comes to recent accomplishments. First, I'd like to highlight that we had the best quarter in the company's history with expressive revenues and profitability. And this shows our ability to capture good business when Agribusiness is doing well. This was a truly exceptional result. We were consistent in managing capital with an additional quarter of ROICs above 100%. And we paid again, dividends and JCPs, which shows our commitment to paying out returns that match our businesses generating business. As future perspectives for 2022, we are going to maintain our strategic direction in capturing business and healthy levels, making the company prepared for a lower market. We will continue generating cash with low leverage, resulting in capital availability for business growth and a possible earnings payout. And we completed in the fourth quarter -- we will complete in the fourth quarter of 2022, a due diligence process related to the acquisition of Procer.

So this concludes our presentation for the third quarter of 2022. I'd like to invite you all for our Kepler Day 2022, which will take place on November 22 at 1:30 p.m. in Sao Paulo. You can sign up in our Investor Relations website. It will be a special event with a lot of important information on our competitive edges and the company's future perspectives.

So this concludes our presentation, and we will continue with the questions-and-answer session. Thank you.

Operator

[Operator Instructions] The first question will be asked by Renata Cabral from Citi.

R
Renata Fonseca Cabral Sturani
analyst

Congratulations on your results. I have 2 questions. First, about PCA. I'd like to know how you foresee that Kepler will receive demands to use this resource? I'm asking that because in the past, the main resource was exported very quickly, and that did not happen this year. So I'd just like to hear if you are seeing any different trends in that area. So what is your take on that? And the second question is, you showed a great slide on CapEx investments and increasing capacity. How are you doing with utilization? Are you close to full capacity? And also investments in further capacity expansions. How is that going? That's all.

P
Paulo Polezi
executive

I can start answering on PCA, and then I'll let Piero and Bernardo answer your question on CapEx. So PCA is the main line in our industry. So the value announced for the harvest plan was a historical record, BRL 5.1 billion, which is very good. Obviously, it's a little bit short of what we believe it should be considering there is a shortage of search space in Brazil, but interest rates are very attractive, 12 years with interest rates of 7% and 8% fixed. So these were very good conditions for PCA and the software plan this year. But you have the right perception, Renata.

Today, resources are taking some time to get to the end. Clients are taking longer to get their investments approved. We now have an important backlog that is just waiting for resources to be cleared. So this is different from what we saw last year, for example. Last year, most resources had already been released had already been received at the end, but this did not happen this year. Very little has been approved. Renata, there have been other years, previous years in 2015 and 2016, in which it also took this long, but then they were approved in the following months. So this year, [ yes, there's been ] a delay. We do believe it will arrive. But so far, it hasn't contributed towards our results much.

So with that addressed, your second question was about the CapEx slide and how our capacity is doing? Piero, can you tell us a bit about that?

P
Piero Abbondi
executive

Of course. Renata, this is an interesting question. We've been working in 2022 closer to full capacity. As a reminder, we have the seasonal business. So not every month will be the same. We have mechanisms to use our production. So although we are close to full capacity, we've made investments throughout the last years, especially in production bottlenecks. So it's important to say that the company has been keeping an eye on the demand and has systematically looked at that and the investments required to increase capacity. As a reminder, we have 2 robust plants that were well installed and that can receive equipment investments, which is what we did in the last years to face the demand. So this item is on our radar. It's constantly being seen, but it's not much of a concern because with relatively low investments, we can increase our production capacity to keep up with the demands.

Renata, I just have a brief recap on financing. As a reminder, Kepler has an exclusive fund for financing clients. So we mentioned this in other calls. We are seeing that we are having a higher demand on that fund. We now have a portfolio there. And of course, we're going to work on that. We have 10-year terms, which are very attractive. And our expectation is that, if PCA is late, then this fund will be a great alternative for clients, not to forget about their investments.

Operator

The next question will be asked by Vitor Polli from Levante Corp.

V
Vitor Polli;Levante Corp;Analyst
analyst

First of all, congratulations on these great results. And I have a couple of questions. First, regarding working capital, especially accounts receivable, we saw that there was an increase this quarter. Is this related to the PCA that you just mentioned? Is it another specific issue? Is there a change in your commercial policies. So if you could tell us a bit more about that. And I'd also like to ask about silo rental. Did you advance on that? Is there anything you can share.

U
Unknown Executive

Yes. On working capital, there was a slight increase in accounts receivable for some restatements. First, our portfolio. We have a robust portfolio and that, of course, increases volume and accounts receivable. It's important to highlight that we don't see any -- the late in payment. It's much more about having a higher volume because we have a bigger portfolio and that leads an increase. If you compare it to a year ago, the third quarter of 2021. And the second point, you -- as you mentioned with this delay in, here we know that clients, especially farmers still have a lot of capital. And we have made payments. I mean, they filed orders without preparing their funds and then they wait for it to be approved for their loans to be approved. So that creates a little bit of a backlog, and that's why PCA has a bigger delay.

And finally, you work with a very rigorous credit policy. So defaults are very low, close to 0. So I think it's more about this moment about a transition that affected our portfolio a little bit. [ Before ] payments are a bit proportional. But last year, we still had a strong demand for silos. Steel was going up. People wanted to store more. So [indiscernible] very full and we guarantee that they would have space was to make advance payments. This year, we're going back to the normal level. So that's why there is a reduction in that indicator, but it's more because of that. Now we're working within a normal threshold when it comes to advanced payments. I'm not sure if I made myself clear.

And to answer your second question on silo rental. Let me answer that. This is on our radar, and we're still looking into it. In the company, we've been talking about it. And looking at it from outside, it looks simple, but it's not trivial. We're working on several fronts because it's not only a financial operation. This fund is not only a financial operation. So what we've done is we've advanced some projects that are more of big wins, as we said. We're trying to see how we can make this work. I mean, this fund is not a trivial matter. And there are other factors involved.

First, asset liquidity. This is an asset that needs to have liquidity, and it will be [ years ] for use. So it needs to be in a region that has the demand for it and that can have different clients. So liquidity is important. Second, operating. This fund belongs to -- or this plant belongs to the fund, excuse me, but it needs to include operation and maintenance, which is done by us. So this is a fund that will have operational contracts with us. It's not trivial, but we are still working on this internally. We have an ongoing project with a partner, who include -- to have some silos throughout Brazil, and this is moving forward. We believe that in the first quarter of 2023, we'll have some solutions or a better design so that we can start to make this product, this type of product work. We really believe in it, because it would facilitate decisions for farmers for them to use silos.

Operator

The next question will be asked by Murilo Marchioni from AZ Quest.

M
Murilo Marchioni;AZ Quest;Equity Research Intern
analyst

First of all, congratulations on these great results. Another positive results for the company. So my first question is about capital allocation. The company has been operating at a good net cash level for a couple of quarters. And I'd just like to know a bit more about what possibilities you have to allocate this capital. Capacity expansion is something that you mentioned, but maybe releveraging the company for an extraordinary payout or digitalization. If you could tell us a bit more. And then I'll ask another question.

U
Unknown Executive

Yes, definitely, we are strong cash generators. And we're always looking at new deals with the Board on how to allocate capital. So the first point is definitely increased capacity. We're making investments there. We have been investing in updating our [indiscernible] plant, which is also significant BRL 20 million, and it will give us several benefits from product quality to maintaining our premium position with better prices. Our lean manufacturing is also going to improve. We have a plant that can receive more investments. This is also a part of the lean optimization process. And finally, we're also looking at internalization alternatives for some operations, which are very important in technical efficiency, which includes consumption parts and our own projects. So of course, this is going to lead to better margins and better capital allocation. And that is for organic growth.

We're also looking at inorganic growth, some possible acquisitions. We have for certain our pipeline, for concluding due diligence. It would be a significant capital allocation, and we have other alternatives in the pipeline. I consider that the company is in a very good position in the market. It has good and robustness for gains. So we were able to increase our revenues organically, but also inorganically in the digital world with higher added value equipment. So we acquired so recently, and it's already providing benefits. So it's small, but it is an [ optical in-selector ], and it's been high technology. So it's very applicable to the post-harvest market. And without a doubt, putting everything on our cash flow on a 2- to 3-year horizon, our cash surplus has always been discussed by the Board. And some examples of that are shown in what we did in the last years. We had a capital issue at [ BRL 9 ] at the time, which would now be [ BRL 3 ]. And we've had significant payments in JCP and dividends. And that's definitely one of our goals to have consistent dividend payout for our shareholders.

M
Murilo Marchioni;AZ Quest;Equity Research Intern
analyst

And if I could ask another question. If you tell us about the company's margin dynamics, both gross margins and the EBITDA margin have been at high levels. So if you could tell us a bit about that. What changed if you had different conditions with your suppliers. So what happened to keep them so high? And thinking about the next quarter, if this will continue, if anything changes, if you can tell us a bit about that.

P
Piero Abbondi
executive

That was a great question, Murilo. Without a doubt, there are several levers here that we can use to maintain profitability in that high level that is -- will be consistent for the future. One of them is good price management and margins. We've been taking care of doing that. We are market leaders, and we have a premium brand that is very well known. And if you ask 10 farmers, 9 will tell them that Kepler is the best post-harvest brand. So we've managed to leverage prices very well. We're capturing premium prices versus our competitors. We have a good market. We have a good brand. We have a wide product portfolio that allows us to if clients very -- well, a solution that really fits their needs. But at the same time, is standardized to reduce any problems in the plant.

On the other hand, what we've also done is performing well on management, price management specifically. Every Friday, we have a meeting in the organization to set our weekly margin strategy. So we look at our project pipeline and towards the horizon. We have 2 in our portfolio currently. We're working on the first quarter looking at how we're going to deliver good results for the next year. And another advantage is that we have a lean factory. When it comes to industrial productivity without a doubt, we have high capacity utilization and that leads to better operational efficiency. So we try to make our plants as productive as we can. And finally, maybe what I can say as well is that we did go through more difficult moments.

We served the wave that was not as favorable in raw materials, namely steel. But in price and inventory management, we were able to get better margins in a turbulent market. And of course, we have no speculation on steel. What we do is we look at our sales and steel, and we are able to capture, this EBITDA, which I consider to be exceptional.

U
Unknown Executive

The next question was asked by [ Nicolas de Oliveira ]. He's asking how much do these results depend on commodity prices. What growth avenues are you seeking to become profitable when values are lower?

P
Piero Abbondi
executive

Nicolas, that was a good question. I'll start answering your last question, and then I'll let Bernardo talk about commodity prices, and he'll give you a bit more from market perspective. Commodity prices are definitely important, but they are not the only factor. Commodity prices also need to be connected to input prices and what farmers have in their wallet of [indiscernible]. And of course, the last few years have been excellent. And we also foresee good years ahead of us. Brazil is very competitive. So we have a good perspective about that. But it's not the only factor. Harvest is an important factor. We are going over BRL 300 million. So that's going to create a lot of pressure in how it will be transported after harvest. So farmers are also going to need to look at that and credit availability, as Paulo said. So we're working on all these fronts to keep up with the demand so that our sales can continue to be at a healthy level.

Growth avenues. There are several of them. First, of course, is that when you have a storage deficit, that gives us a lot of potential. So we're working to try to show the market the benefits that farmers can have when they invest in storage. Our [ plants ] are paid back in 5 years. So if they have a 8-year credit, they basically will have positive cash flow. It's a great investment. But we've been working on other fronts, especially seeking sustainability for the different ag cycles. So there are other business segments included. So for terminals, industries and cooperatives, which are much more connected to the downstream or what continues after exportation. So I think that's important to keep in mind. And also our -- maybe Bernardo can talk a bit more about that. That's an important segment and digital services as well. I mentioned [ crosera ], but they will also give us some resilience and better sales, which will allow us to be disconnected from agricultural cycles. So, go ahead, Bernardo.

B
Bernardo Nogueira
executive

Nicolas, this is Bernardo. And [ coming back ] to what Piero said, I think Brazilian agriculture has been developing at a global level. We know that 2022 was exceptional. So this is the incredible margins. And we've been using these tailwinds to prepare ourselves for efficiency in 3 fronts. Geographically, if we look [indiscernible] we went from 20% to 30% in the north of Brazil. We created 2 distribution centers this quarter in Parag and Maranhao. And what we see with service replacement is that our OpEx rather than CapEx. So since our farmers have to, for example, get tires replaced. This is a market that we look at with a lot of attention. And you want to ask before about capital allocation and possible potential M&As. This is a strategical area that where we can improve services. It also plays an important strategic role. In Paragominas, we will double our share in Para and opening that distribution center will allow us to accelerate. So that will have a very strategic role.

Looking at the third point. The first was resilience, right? So the geographic goal. [ Material ], and now let's talk about new businesses. There's [ Silatrone ], the digital side, and it's not only a product, but it also adds value to our business, and there are some other initiatives. An interesting one we had in this quarter was that we sold our first extended warranty. So clients are buying this product and they add 18 months to their warranty on our products. So these are some ways to increase our resilience.

U
Unknown Executive

Bernardo, maybe to answer Nicolas question, I would say that we are trying not to only be a project company. We're not only selling projects to our clients, but we want to keep track of their entire journey, not only in selling, assembling, training, providing maintenance, digital training. This maintenance being far away from the client, but we want to support them whenever we can, we want to be close to them. And if they're pleased when they buy their next project, we will be there in line to service them. So that's a bit of our perspective when we want to create better loyalty with our clients.

U
Unknown Executive

The next question was asked by [ Antonio Jose ]. Congratulations to Kepler for these great results. I'd like to know what the company is thinking about corporate governance in the listing segment since the company is not listed in the Novo Mercado segment, which is the highest level of governance. Are you considering a migration and why I believe it would be beneficial for everyone involved.

U
Unknown Executive

This question is very timely because yesterday, we had a meeting with the Board, and they approved that company to start looking at Novo Mercado. So -- and considering that for next year. So I think that will be very good for the company. And especially, it will put us on a position in which we will have more visibility for our investors in Brazil and abroad. And we don't believe it will require a great effort because you already have a very good governance. So -- we need to make a GAAP analysis, but they're not very significant. They're very small. So we don't need to do much on this. This makes a lot of sense. The Board has already allowed that and we published a material fact this morning on that. Exactly. And just to add to his answer, this is something that we will discuss in our general assembly.

So as Piero said, we meet most of the requirements from Novo Mercado. There are very few improvements to make, and we're going to work on them in the next weeks. So we're trying to find the quickest fit we can. The fourth quarter results will be published in February. So we will have an assembly and this will be put up for discussion. So it's great timing because that gives us time to implement all of the improvements. We need to review our bylaws, some policies, so we can fit into the Novo Mercado package. And we can basically start the next year in the Novo Mercado rules. And it's like Piero said, the company has been very transparent, meeting all of its obligations. So all we needed was to get ourselves organized for that. So we're very happy.

U
Unknown Executive

The next question was asked by [ Guilherme Vega ]. Is this increase in inventory related to challenges in receiving raw materials? Or is it due to a higher demand? Will it go down in the future? Can you tell us a bit about new acquisitions and how they will contribute to Kepler's results.

U
Unknown Executive

Yes, inventories did go up, in comparison to a year ago. The main factor, again, is to meet a higher order portfolio. The company always works with this forecast, right? So we're a company that delivers on projects. So we acquire raw materials in order to be able to do it. So we have these 2 components. First, portfolio; and secondly, raw materials had a grade demand, especially during the second half of last year. This year, prices stabilized, but when you compare to a year ago, we still had expressive increases in the second half of the year. We have inventory policies.

We have policies and coverage. So that means that we have a range to work with. And as it stabilizes and we are seeing this in the supply chain, it's more stable. We're now much more favorable. We can work on more normal thresholds. So this inventory will go down. We want to adapt it to a normal level. So if the market is normal, we don't need to work at that level. These 2 years have been very turbulent in price and availability.

So let's talk a bit about new acquisitions. So we expect lines and added value products to change this. So let me talk about [ Selitron ], which is our highest added value product. It's an optical selector. It goes into other areas, seeds, coffee, especially food grains where we have a significant presence in rice and common beans, it adds value. It's technologically similar to what we already do. So in production levels, it brings synergies to our plants. So what we did -- do here. We have a small part of our plant where we do maintenance, assembly, and we also have a showroom with ready for sale equipment. So a coffee grower, for example, can take their samples for testing and they can buy it immediately. These are smaller equipment and they can take that immediately. So many acquisition on this line needs to have synergies, clients' needs to look at the same coverage. So it needs to be something that we can leverage and capture synergies.

And the second growth avenue is digital. We have a digital platform focusing on equipment operation with Procer, we believe that we will accelerate how brands are conserved. We're very focused on that. And that helps farmers in their operations. They can extract more value from their equipment. And for us, it's a journey. The next step would be maintenance, managing maintenance and other growth avenues and digital services that we can provide to our clients. So that is our main horizon, main acquisitions that are on our radar.

Operator

[Operator Instructions] As there are no further questions, this concludes our Q&A. I'll now pass it over to Mr. Piero for his closing remarks. Go ahead, sir.

P
Piero Abbondi
executive

Thank you. I'd like to thank everyone for their time, the time you took to understand our company, to hear us out. And I'd also like to remind you of the exceptional results we have had so far. We believe it will continue until the end of the year. So it will be a key quarter for this year. And this is due to several reasons; one of which is the market. The market is doing very well. Brazil has an exceptional position in Agribusiness. I believe that the Russia-Ukraine war has only made our potential stronger because Brazil is among the top [ 5-ex ] quarters of grains and foods. So this has left us at an even better position. But we also had some headwinds that our company faced very well. So I'd like to thank all of our 1,700 employees. These results are a fruit of your labor.

Earlier this year, we were still facing COVID, then the supply chain was disrupted. There was the war. You have been very focused, and we have faced these challenges exceptionally. I'd also like to remind you once again that on November 22, we will have Kepler Day, which will be a great forum, so that we can explore in detail what we're seeing here. So we're expecting you on November 22, and you can sign up on our investor relations website. Thank you once again for your time. Thank you for being interested in our company, and we hope to see you in February to wrap up this year.

Operator

Thank you. This concludes Kepler Weber's conference call. If you have any questions, you can send them to the Investor Relations team, using ri.kepler@kepler.com.br. Thank you for listening, and have a great day.

[Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]