Engie Brasil Energia SA
BOVESPA:EGIE3
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Engie Brasil Energia SA
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Good morning, and welcome to the Engie Brasil Energia's Fourth Quarter '20 and Full Year 2020 Earnings Result Video Conference. I am Rafael Bósio, the IR manager for the company. To be able to better interact with you without a mask and in safety, each of us is in an individual room, respecting the protocols. [Operator Instructions] It is worth remembering that this video conference is being recorded. We have made available on our website, www.engie.com.br/investors, the results presentation and the earnings release, where detailed analysis of the variations between the periods are disclosed.
Before proceeding, I would like to clarify that forward-looking statements made during this video conference regarding the business outlook of the company should be treated as forecasts that depend on the country's macroeconomic conditions, the performance and regulation of the electric sector besides other variables.
With me today, we have Mr. Eduardo Sattamini, CEO and IRO; and Marcelo Malta, Chief Financial Officer; who will talk about the company's performance in the fourth quarter and year 2020. [Operator Instructions]
A good morning to all of you. It is a pleasure to be with you again to speak about the results of the year 2020. Marcelo Malta will refer to the financial highlights for the year.
I begin on Slide #5, where I show the highlights of the year. The year 2020 was extremely challenging for all of us regardless of working in a large company or not. Society suffered because of the pandemic, but it was a year that showed the maturity of the electrical sector. We had significant evolution in terms of regulation. We showed agility and maturity when we decided the COVID account in June, July, a very broad discussion that was carried out speedily and with humility in the sector. We showed maturity, and this allowed us to have the tranquility and the necessary liquidity to remain solid during the year 2020. Another event that is a sign of maturity and regulatory calmness is the solution that happened at the end of the year with the law 14.052 that was promulgated, ending a debate that had been ongoing for almost 8 years.
So these are 2 excellent pieces of news that ended up significantly enhancing the performance of the company in 2020, especially because of the hydrological risk tendency that contributed with more than BRL 960 million to the 2020 result, enabling us to have a growth in our result in terms of EBITDA, 25.7% vis-à-vis 14.3%, which was the recurrent EBITDA growth. Of course, what also contributed to this was the entry into operation of Pampa in the second semester of 2019. When we compare ourselves to 2019, we have a full year of Pampa Sul vis-à-vis half a year last year. And in April of last year -- I'm sorry, in April of 2019, we had Umburanas coming in, once again with growth of its contribution and full results.
We had a very important event this year of 2021, the full contribution of TAG, which contributed with more than BRL 406 million results above what we had expected. Therefore, we had better results because of the interest rate due to the acquisition of TAG. We had a reduction in CDI, which also bolstered all of this, and also several management measures adopted by our team at TAG that were put in place last semester, the fiscal credits that had not been included in our planning, and the year was very good thanks to this, reflecting in our EBITDA and in our net revenues.
When we speak about net revenues, the growth was of 21%. If we look at the recurrent rate vis-à-vis 2019, we did not have such a good performance, only 0.8% of growth. And of course, this has some underlying reasons. We increased the leverage of the company. With these financial expenses, our growth was leveraged. In 2016, when I took office, we had a highly unleveraged balance. We sought to bring in new debt through profitable projects. We have attained this and have been able to grow significantly in the last 4 years and with great profitability. And of course, this brings about a more balanced capital structure for the company but with higher financial expenses.
There was an event which is significant, the issue of the increase -- the sudden increase of IGPM with a growth of more than 24% in 2020. As we have a stock of liabilities that we need to pay, this financial expense had a considerable increase vis-à-vis the year 2019, where we did not have an impact because of the separation of IPCA and IGPM. Now our way of hedging the IGPM in the debt is through contracts. Also linked to this index, we have more than BRL 4 billion in contracts vis-à-vis BRL 3 billion in debt. This debt does not represent a cash as the debt will be paid through time. We do record them in the yearly balance. With the contracts, we are only able to record once the invoices have been issued and received in future years, which means that through the year 2021 and in upcoming years, we're going to realize this gain of IGPM in terms of our exposure.
We will now go on to Slide #6, continuing to speak about the highlights. As I mentioned, we had an abnormal year, forcing us to have most of our attention geared to guaranteeing the health and the safety of our personnel, of our activities and, of course, of the communities where we work. We had a great deal of social activities. We serviced the community in a scheme of emergency with financial help, helping the local hospitals helping in the struggle against COVID. I would say that this was a very abundant year full of achievements for the company where we adopted effective measures to be able to return to the society and the company per se.
This, of course, was important for us. It is part of the DNA of the company to have social responsibility, and the exercise of our social responsibility ended up being very intense in 2020. We carried out negotiations with the clients to better understand their situation and to offer them a momentary relief. We negotiated invoices. We postponed payment, once again guaranteeing, as you will see further ahead, a Net Promoter Score that is quite high, satisfied clients with our activity, even with clients where formerly we had a conflict of interest in both paying and receiving the invoice.
We had an advance in our work. Despite all the difficulties in Campo Largo II Wind Complex, Gralha Azul and Novo Estado, all continued on course. We had more problems in Campo Largo because of a municipal injunction that brought the work to a standstill. We are working to resolve this impact, and Campo Largo should come into operation until the end of the first semester of 2021. Gralha Azul and Novo Estado will be coming into operation in the second semester of this year, and we will begin to see the contribution of these assets still in 2021, but the full results will only appear beginning in 2022.
Very well. We have spoken about the regulatory maturity of the sector. We can now go on to the highlights on Page #7, where we speak about our expansion. In January, we signed an agreement for the supply of wind turbines and also for the implementation of the Santo Agostinho Wind Complex in Rio Grande do Norte, a project of BRL 2.2 billion that will be coming into operation in 2023. This project was backed in the free environment sales and we had already shown in Campo Largo II and Campo Largo I, where we partially destined our energy to the free contracting market with this market guaranteeing support for the development of novel capacity. We should see this increasing with the project [ 2 3 2 ] with more warranties, further development and supply through other measures that will be adopted throughout the years.
On Slide #7, we also refer to our sustainability at the end of the year. For the 16th consecutive year, we participated in the Corporate Sustainability Index, and we were selected as a component of the new B3 Carbon Efficient Index, ICO2. Of course, this is important for us. We still have carbon activity in our portfolio, and we're trying to softly and responsibly exit from carbon, and we will speak about this going forward.
Another important highlight. We continue on with our digitalization and automation processes. And a proof of this is another large plant, the Machadinho Hydroelectric Plant that is being operated remotely from our operation in Florianópolis. We have 48 of the 60 plants now being operated through the Generation Operation Center.
In Slide #8, we speak about our dividends. We approved in December 2020 the distribution of dividends amounting to BRL 554.5 million. This represents 100% payout of the first half of the year. We had decided to hold back part of this because of the uncertainties surrounding the market at the moment of the pandemic, but we were able to navigate through the pandemic in a relatively comfortable fashion. Of course, we had a drop in volume with clients, negotiations, but we were able to hold back the impact of the pandemic in a very diligent fashion. And that is why we proposed in December this complement for the semester. The payment was carried out on January 29, and interest on shareholders' capital was also deliberated to the amount of BRL 175 million. Payment will be on April 5 this year as part of the payout policy to shareholders. At the last general assembly, we approved the proposal of distribution of complementary dividends for BRL 609.6 million. This will be ratified at the Annual General Meeting, which means that for 2020, we will reach 100% of payout.
We have retained the amount of [ GFO ]. This is an economic result, but the cash of this result will only be obtained in the period of extension of the concession. The payment for the hydrological risk was done through a reimbursement by extending the concession of the electrical plant. So this will represent cash for the moment, and we have decided to pay out 100% of the profit, ending or closing this value of the GFOM. And this will be paid out further ahead when we see the cash effects of this extension or at any moment where we have the ability and cash to do this.
We go on to Slide #10, where we will speak about our commercialization strategy. This is a very concise slide. We took the decision of working with a briefer presentation, allowing more time for conversation with our analysts and investors. In this slide, you can see our portfolio to the top left, where we show you the contracted energy in the regulated and free environment and how much of our energy is still uncontracted. Uncontracted does not mean available energy necessarily. It is energy that can be made available for contracting or work as a hydrological hedge. As in the case of GSF, we always leave uncontracted energy. This year, it represents 12%, 675 average megawatts, and we deem this to be reasonable to deal with the hydrology, where we observed that this will be another difficult year in terms of hydrology.
We have growing uncontracted energy, and we do have a commercialization strategy. You can observe in this slide, in the lower-right chart, where we contract energy year after year, gradually allowing us to dilute the risk of contracting throughout the years, diversifying the temporary contracts. You'll speak about diversification at the right upper part of the graph. We show you our portfolio per segment of the industry. We have a reasonable diversification in terms of the steel mills. We have a slight concentration with safety levels set forth by the company standing at 13.3%. Our maximum limit would be 15% with a specific industry. These are companies with a very high rating, and they do not pose any problem in terms of credit or exaggerated exposure.
We go on to Slide #11, where we speak about our commercial strategy. We see a growing number of customers, a growing opening of the market as the government reduces the consumption thresholds and eligibility thresholds, and we see a growing number of consumers interested in becoming part of the free contracting level. Since 2016, our growth in terms of number of customers has been threefold and a growth in average megawatts commercialized through this market. You will observe that the volume of energy is not compatible with the number of customers. We're dealing with smaller customers who demand a new contracting methodology and management so that this can become ever more profitable.
We have invested heavily in digitalization. We have a digital platform. We're beginning to sell new products through the platform. It is a fully digital platform called Energy Place. We have already discussed this, and this continues on as a project to digitize our commercialization and segmentation of our customers as they do in private banks, preferential customers and common customers. We also have a customer segmentation to ensure that the cost of capturing a customer and the market that they lead will be compatible through time.
And we're getting ready for a fragmented market. We have 1,639 units of consumers, 13% market share in 2020, 25,766 gigawatts of energy contracts for free customers in the year 2020, and a Net Promoter Score of 67.2%. This -- for customers who understand our commercial activity, whether they are companies, they think we are a quality vendor. We do have some that are detractors and have a neutral position. So the percentage is quite high. And they show us what we see in CSI, the Customer Satisfaction Index of 92.5%, showing that we have broad acceptance among our customers and that we are acknowledged as being a quality vendor.
In Slide #13, we speak about expansion. We'll speak about the Campo Largo II Wind Complex, nowadays with accumulated progress of 72% of the work. We have 17 generating units of the 86 that are already under operation and test. We will be coming into operation gradually. Until the end of the first semester, we will commercially conclude this project.
We're going to go on to the next slide, Santo Agostinho Wind Complex in Rio Grande do Norte. It still has not begun the work. It has 434 megawatts. We began in the first days of 2021 with a contract. Our commercial capacity will be 218 megawatts. The investment will be BRL 2.2 billion, and it is in Rio Grande do Norte where we begin this cluster. As you will see further ahead, we do have some capacity there, 18 -- 800 megas installed. We're developing new areas at a complex very close to Santo Agostinho to have another complex. We have a cluster in Rio Grande do Norte, and the forecast for the conclusion of this project is that the installation license will be filed in the first semester of this year, and work will begin so that we can deliver energy in the first quarter of 2023.
In the next slide, Slide #15, we can speak about our Gralha Azul Transmission System. Work has progressed to 75% of the total project. We had a problem, a legal problem, due to part of the lines. We were faced with a temporary injunction that was set forth by an NGO. We were forced to resort to justice. We revoked this temporary injunction, and it ended up being very favorable. The environmental process that took more than 2 years was created to have the least environmental impact. And once again, we're working with a new technology to hang cables to suppress the elimination of plants. All of this was taken into account. We were able to revoke the injunction, go back to normal work.
We had a slight drop in productivity because part of the team was displaced to other substations, but we do continue with the term of September 2021 as our target. We believe that this will be very feasible. The team is working strongly with the subcontracted people, and we believe that in May or June, we will already have part of this complex of lines and substations already generating revenues and with the system operating. The last operation will be in September, but beginning in May and June, we will have part of this complex operational at the service of the National Integrated System, the [ SIG ].
At the next slide, #16, we speak about the Novo Estado Transmission Project in Pará and Tocantins. In this case, the license was issued by IBAMA. The licensing was given before by [ Yati ], and the entire Gralha Azul project was in Paraná. Now the environmental licensing agency has that prerogative of granting the license. We have no problem as it covers 2 different states, of having a license from IBAMA. We are evolving. The level of completion is 36%, and we have 60% of the foundations already concluded. The pace of work at this is not as fast as Gralha Azul because this transmission project will only be operational beginning in December of this year.
We go on to Slide #17 about the Jirau HPP. We're working with 7%. This is a unit that is not our construction but part of the business model that we had in the past where hydroelectric plants were built at a certain pace. And when we mitigated the large problems and risks, these assets would be sold for energy as Jirau still has some pending elements. We do not have certainty in terms of its full value, the responsibility because of the delays that occurred, fiscal discussions. For this reason, the project is part of our expansion plan but will only be transferred at a moment in which we understand from the holding company that the great risks have been mitigated, that this will be a stable asset that will contribute to our portfolio. For the time being, it remains here. We're still working in terms of the holding to resolve and mitigate the risks that still remain.
And to conclude about our expansion, on Slide #18, we list our assets, our project pipeline that will be developed -- made up basically of renewable and solar energy. And periodically, we do carry out new acquisitions. And as we implement projects at Santo Agostinho, we seek to acquire new areas to maintain this pipeline with a dimension that will enable us to have growth and service our market.
Having said this, we're now going to go on to the financial performance, and I will give the floor to Marcelo Malta.
A good day to all of you. Sattamini has already made significant comments referring to our results. I'm going to go through the next 3 slides quite fast so that we can have more time in the question-and-answer session.
On Slide #20, we see the evolution of our net operating revenues. We had a consumption impact of price and volume of BRL 127 million. In terms of price, we have an uptake of our contracts based on the inflation rate. And regarding the sales volume, we had a positive impact thanks to the coming into operation of Pampa Sul mid-2020. This year, we are adding more months to our results. And on the other hand, we had a reduction in consumption once again due to the impact of the pandemic. We had a recovery of PIS and Cofins amounting to BRL 84 million, adding more value to our revenues. In the CCEE transaction, we had a negative effect mainly due to the reduction of our secondary energy in the year 2020 when compared to the year 2019. Regarding the impact on transmission, we have an impact of BRL 2.385 billion. This is an economic effect merely and is due to the application of a specific accounting standard.
On Slide #21, we show you our result in equity income for TAG. In 2020, we observed the result of TAG of almost BRL 1.6 billion, and our stake in this result was BRL 487.1 million. As Sattamini mentioned, besides the fact that we acquired TAG in July of 2019 -- in 2020, we have more aggregate results. And additionally, we had positive results in our financial results due to the reduction of CDI.
On Slide #22, we show you the EBITDA evolution. Sattamini already referred to the effects of the hydrological risk that added BRL 968 million to our EBITDA. This was dealt with as a recovery of costs that we had incurred in last year, and as has already been mentioned, this is merely an economic impact. From the financial viewpoint, we will have the recovery through the entire period of extension of the concession, which we hope will be of 2 or 3 years. We had some nonrecurrent effects that impacted our EBITDA, one of which, as was mentioned, was the recovery of PIS and Cofins of BRL 84 million. We also had an impairment record for the year 2020, basically due to our decision of closing down 2 Jorge Lacerda units. These units are extremely old. They're over 50 years old. They do not deliver very frequently, and the effects of the closing down of these units will be minor without having a significant impact on our results. And the last nonrecurrent effect dating back to 2019, the recognition of [ ELG ] of Pampa and indemnity because of the delay in the conclusion of work on the part of the suppliers.
In the transmission operations, on the margin of the management activities of the work, we had an impact which is only an economic impact, adding BRL 262 million to our EBITDA. And finally, as has already been mentioned by Sattamini, a result and -- because of our stake in TAG that added BRL 406 million to our EBITDA, as has already been mentioned, this results from the acquisition carried out in mid-2019 and the enhancement of the results of TAG in the year 2020.
On Slide #23, the net income evolution. The first impact, of course, is adding EBITDA to our result and the financial results, as mentioned by Sattamini, with significant impacts due to the IGPM variation on our concessions that are indexed to this indicator. We had an impact of over BRL 400 million in our financial results and additionally, an increase of our indebtedness in 2020 of approximately BRL 2 billion, increasing the interest rate on the debt that had been contracted. We would like to underscore, as Sattamini said, that the IGPM effects will be recovered through our contracts indexed to IGPM. And additionally, we have the contribution that will be given by TAG, considering that almost all of the TAG sales contract are indexed to IGPM as well.
In Slide #24, we have 2 financial indicators, ROE and ROIC. Return on equity, that was high in 2020, thanks to the better results and cash generation. If we compare this to the market, these indicators do stand out.
On Slide #25, the evolution of our indebtedness. We had an increase in debt, as mentioned, of approximately BRL 2 billion, a reduction of our leverage because of the cash generation for 2020, net debt/EBITDA ratio standing at 1.8x, pointing to very comfortable levels of leverage and indebtedness. We ended the year with a gross debt of BRL 16.672 billion, cash of BRL 4.539 million (sic) [ BRL 4.539 billion ] and net debt of BRL 11.786 million (sic) [ BRL 11.786 billion ].
On Slide 26, the debt profile and composition of our debt. You can observe that in 2021, 2022, we have a high volume of debt amortization. And it is also important to underscore that most of the debt is indexed to IPCA and another part with a pre-fixed rate. Throughout the years, beginning in 2023, indexation mainly linked to the IPCA, the debt duration is of approximately 6 years and 3 months. In terms of the composition, almost 70% of our debt is made out of pre-fixed rate and indexed to the IPCA. The nominal cost of our debt ended the year at approximately 7.6% per year.
On the following slide, our CapEx, our investment plan, you can see expressive volumes of investment in 2020 due to Novo Estado, Gralha Azul and Campo Largo projects. In 2021, we will once again have expressive volumes thanks to the construction of these 3 assets that I have mentioned; and beginning in 2022, the investments exclusively in Santo Agostinho.
To conclude, we show you the evolution of our dividend policy. As mentioned by Sattamini, in 2019, we retained BRL 950 million of our revenues with the goal, of course, of being able to face the pandemic. And last year, as mentioned, our proposal is to pay out 100% of [ ex GFOM ] revenues. Now because of these retentions, we have a reserve of approximately [ 1 billion 700,000 million ] that can be paid out at any moment based on the [indiscernible] my presentation here and open up the question-and-answer session.
[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from Marcelo Sá from Itaú Bank.
I have 2 questions, the first referring to TAG. We see the process of sale of Petrobras moving forward, and there's a high opportunity that once this has been capitalized, the asset will be bought by Eneva. Eneva has significant interest, and this has been discussed in terms of the TAG pipeline. I would like to understand which are the following steps so that you can eventually carry out an expansion for TAG, if you are discussing this with the regulator, if you have investment for this. And how far would it be possible to increase the capacity of this pipeline? At present, it is 6.7 cubic meters per day. Which is the room that you would have for a capacity increase? These are my questions.
Thank you for the question, Marcelo. I will respond part of it and perhaps Rafael can continue the answer. Now the expansion process in terms of capacity is done through a manifestation of interest. On Monday, on the 8th of February, TAG made a public call to hear this manifest of interest in terms of consumers and gas producers so that it can carry out a survey. Now this is a process carried out by TAG along with the ANP to verify the needs and opportunities for expansion of this pipeline. After the manifestations of interest, I imagine that Eneva will respond to the call, speak about its needs, and we will assess the most appropriate technical solution depending on the amount. Today, I cannot say which will be the possibility in terms of capacity expansion.
Now if you build a parallel pipeline, it could be done. But with the present-day pipelines, we cannot specify which will be the capacity expansion if it refers to compression or the operation of a loop that the pipeline can create to have additional capacity. Once again, I still do not have this information. We do not have all the technical detail as we are not the operators of the TAG pipeline. There is a company that does this specifically. We are part of the Board, but the technical part is delegated to the company management. I don't know if Rafael has this information, and perhaps he can offer you this information.
As Sattamini said -- I have nothing to add. We can survey this, but it will depend on the interest and access to the pipeline, and we have to also set forth new investments. It's very important and very sound to hear these manifestations of interest. We do want to create a strong gas market in Brazil with a number of players. And for this, we need to have new agents, new interested parties, new entries, new exit points and a greater capacity.
Of course, this is always important to be able to take all of this off of the paper. We have had a significant evolution. Last week, we signed a contract with Unigel, a company that has acquired the right to operate with the fertilizing plants that are very close to our pipeline. We have signed the first contract with a consumer since we took on TAG for the supply of gas with interruptions. Why interruptions? Because the pipeline has been fully contracted with Petrobras. What we do is to supply gas in periods when the pipeline has any sort of idleness. And with this, we reduce the cost of the pipeline for Petrobras, and we are able to capture a small margin through this type of contract. This is beginning to come out of paper.
The gas market, it will be complicated to develop it, but it should give us significant satisfaction as presently, this is a non-existing market. With this, we will have to create the right conditions for the market development. Once again, this is coming out of paper. There is a great deal of interest in it, and interest is welcome. We look upon it with good eyes so that we can have longevity in this pipeline that we are operating.
And my second question, referring to your project pipeline. You have renewable projects. Now with the approval of the provisional measure, Gralha will be concluded in the coming years, and I believe it will be very welcome by the companies in the sector. This will enable you to develop projects faster. Now having said this, I would like to understand which is your expectation for the development of this project, if you will be able to do most of the project to be able to be entitled to benefits? If you could give us more color on this. Also, regarding price, which is the price of [ incentivated ] energy at which you could work with?
We have adopted a stance of always developing with the energy from the contracted projects. Santo Agostinho, for example, is a project that was developed with a contracting hedge. All of the energy was contracted with a certain number of years going forward. If I'm not mistaken, contracting is for at least 6 years in terms of this operation with a minimum of present value already guaranteed in all of the contracts, which means that we don't usually go out and make the decision to invest in new projects without having contractual coverage because if this were to happen, if this is an activity taken by the competitor, the prices will have dropped. They will plummet.
And in the case of the supply, this will go on for some time, and the profitability of these projects would be frustrated. If a businessman is responsible, this is the caution -- the precaution that should be taken. Some, of course, will only survive if they make investments. Of course, this makes sense. We're a project company, and the projects has to develop. Now if they develop the project without having a market, they are doomed to extinction. We do have these shooters that are not responsible. What we have to have is the security of investment, and this is our stance. We're not going to change our stance because of others. What we imagine will happen is that there will be a surplus supply because of this measure but that the prices will return to normalcy as soon as the supply has been fully consumed.
We will now go on to the questions via chat. Once again, I would like to read the questions that have come in through the chat, the first from Maria Carolina Carneiro from Crédit Suisse.
Two questions. The second question was already addressed by Sattamini. The impact of the generation scaling factor as the final figures are not available. Have you decided to acknowledge the previous values or the best estimate for the new values?
ANEEL has divulged a preliminary figure, and our in-house calculations were very similar with that preliminary figure. The only additional component to the figure that was disseminated by ANEEL was the cost of capital that was incorporated into the account. We have reasonable safety, a high level of security that our figures will be very close to those of ANEEL. And this is the security that has enabled us to acknowledge those values for the year 2020.
Thank you, Malta. The second part of the question from Carol refers to our growth, our strategic positioning for 2021. Gas, renewable energy, this has already been spoken about. I don't know if you would like to add something.
The next question comes from an individual investor, [ Geraldo Barros ], who sends greetings from Pernambuco, and asks if we have a project to create a plant in his state. Is this because of what happened in Sport Recife that helped the team of Flamengo?
Thank you very much for your question. And -- I'm sorry. I forgot the question.
He's -- if we have a project for the state.
We do not have any projects in Pernambuco. Unfortunately, we do have 2 clusters in Rio Grande do Norte and in Bahia. Now obviously, we are interested in spreading to other regions because they have different wind patterns because of geology, because of topography, and we have a different wind profile. We, so far, do not have any projects, any development, but we will be very attentive. If anything happens, we will send you some news.
Thank you, Sattamini. We have some more questions, another question referring to the TAG plans in terms of the privatization of Urucu.
We have already addressed this. We cannot give you figures for the expansion of the pipeline. This has not been set forth.
And a question of [ Rodolfo Simas ], an individual investor, asking us to speak in details of the objectives and risks in the acquisition of Jirau from the social environmental viewpoint of the project because of the issues that remain.
Thank you for the questions, [ Simas ]. Our idea is that once the project is brought up for discussion between the holding company and the other company, we will have a discussion among related parties. We will have a committee of related parties made up of representatives, independent members and complemented by the company executives because we have to come to an adequate and balanced decision for the company. At this point in time, we're going to continue working technically to assess all of the aspects in a very wholesome way, a normal acquisition evaluation as if this were a third-party project.
Now when we speak about environmental plans and environmental responsibilities, they will be priced in the best way possible. Certainly, we will keep our eye on it and we will divulge this at a timely moment. We don't follow upon this day after day. This is a project that belongs to the controlling company, the holding company. I am part of the Board of the company that is working with Jirau, but I don't have what -- details in terms of what happens in the day-to-day operations, the environmental projects, for example. At the proper time, we will carry out this verification carried out by independent related parties, and we're going to work with the valuation to think about an eventual acquisition.
Thank you. We do not have further questions. Therefore, if anybody would still like to pose a question, this is the time to do it. We will wait some seconds to see if we have further questions from the phone or through the chat. [Operator Instructions] We have received the last question through the chat. The question is, is there any trigger that can leave you -- lead you to distributing the revenues retained? Could this happen?
Yes, of course. And so far, as we do not have projects or use for the resources or if we have a very low indebtedness, it is very possible that we will assess an additional payout of dividends. We're attempting to use cash for the payout of dividends, and we ensure to hold back whatever is sound for our debt. But we always maintain a headroom, space to make rapid decisions in terms of the volume. We have not had a situation where we were not able to use the capital. Perhaps in 2005, 2006 when the company came to a standstill in terms of its growth, this could have been done in the past but this is a moment of opportunity.
If you look at the last 4 or 5 years, the growth of the company has been considerable. We have a profit of BRL 1.2 billion to BRL 2.8 billion growth of revenues in these 4 years. This clearly points to growth and a profitable growth of the company. And if we find opportunities to generate value for the shareholders above the organic capital that we demand, we're going to continue to invest and we may carry -- well, the possibility of carrying out an extraordinary payout is minor, but we do not invest without remuneration and adequate risk, but we could assess an extraordinary payout. For the time being, this has not been forecast.
Thank you, Sattamini. We have a few more additional questions, if we're interested in the transmission assets of [ C3A ].
A question that I would not like to answer. We are looking at the process, but it will depend on the moment.
Thank you, Sattamini. A last question, if we could comment on the sales process for the thermoelectric plants.
Yes, we can. We have a plan presently for Jorge Lacerda A decommissioning in 2025. But because of the announcements we had last year, the community -- the political community and society as a whole was outcry-ing against this, asking us to find solutions for the problems that we will face when selling problems related to a possible -- perhaps very remote but possible accusation of environmental damage of mining companies vis-à-vis the thermoelectric plant. If we are able to resolve this problem and come up with a balanced risk/return equation, it is possible that we will carry out the sale. We do have interested parties for this asset, and we will resolve this pending the proposal.
On the contrary, we will continue on with the process of this stage, closedown of the unit until 2025, using the plant. The plant has been profitable. This is a benefit. And of course, closing down a unit is a very complex process. It involves social and economic issues, and we have to be very cautious in terms of that. We do have a work group that has been set up exclusively to address this issue. The Jorge Lacerda plant, we will leave either through a closedown in 2025 or a sale, and the sale could still take place this year because the remaining years of the plant are decreasing and the interest of the buyer as well.
Regarding Pampa, Pampa was a plant where we faced several problems in the setup of the plant in 2019. The core of the equipment is very good. The boiler, the turbines, the generator have excellent quality, but the quality of the ancillary equipment that we found at the plant, despite all of the due diligence that we carried out, led us to have to make several substitutions of valves, sensors and other mechanisms.
And of course, in terms of expansion, this plan has not been good. And since the end of 2020, we have had stable generation. We are going to carry out a stoppage in mid-May. We imagine that this stoppage will resolve the issues that we have already identified. And perhaps all of this will bring the plant back to a normal operation. Once the operation comes back to a normalcy, it's what you call the bathtub curve. That is the moment when we will be able to offer tranquility to the buyers stating that the asset is good. The quality of the plant is very good. The problems are minor and ancillary systems -- and they are being resolved gradually. Therefore, we should begin the process during the first quarter so that we can, throughout the year 2021, carry out a transaction or negotiate a transaction for a closing at the most in the year 2022.
Thank you, Sattamini. With this, we're going to end the question-and-answer session. I would like to return the floor to Mr. Sattamini for the closing remarks.
I would like to thank all you for your participation. As you could observe, the results for the year were very good. And along with Rafael and the team, we are at your entire disposal to clarify any additional doubts that you may have. And once again, if you have any questions, please address them to Rafael and his team. Without a doubt, we will respond to all of them.
I would like to thank all of you for the support that we received in the year 2020 and state that we're attentive and diligent in terms of the pandemic, which is far from being over, but we will have a year 2021 still with this threat over the economy, over the company, on the health of our personnel and communities. But we're attentive to this. We're working diligently, attentively supporting society in this combat against this threat. We continue to work despite all the difficulties to deliver top-quality, top-notch results, working with a young team that is very competitive, making the company better day after day. The controlling company has offered us full support as well as the teams. Thank you very much, and we have great expectations for growth in the year 2021. We want to deliver results that are very good as they were in the year 2020.
Thank you. The Engie Brasil video conference ends here. We would like to thank all of you for your participation. Have a good afternoon. Thank you for using Voitel.
[Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]