C&A Modas SA

BOVESPA:CEAB3

Earnings Call Analysis

Earnings Call Transcript 2023-Q3

[Carolina Martins, executive]

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to C&A Video Conference to discuss results relative to the third quarter of 2023.

Today, we have here Paulo Correa, CEO; Laurence Beltrao Gomes, CFO and RI (sic) [ IR ]; Fernando Brossi, Vice President of Operations and Financial Services; Donatti, Commercial Vice President; and Carolina [indiscernible], Vice President, our ESG Manager.

This presentation and the results release are available at our website. We would like to inform you that this event is being recorded and simultaneously translated into English. Just click on the interpretation button on your screen to reach the English channel. This presentation will also be available in our RI (sic) [ IR ] website. [Operator Instructions].

Eventual declarations that may be done during this conference relative to perspective of C&A relations projections, and financial goals, they are based on ideas and firm beliefs of the company, and what is available for the company today, but they have to do with future events and depend on circumstances that may or may not happen. Investors and analysts must understand that conditions of the sector, while other operational conditions may affect the results of C&A that can lead to results that differ from the results presented here.

Now I'd like to call Mr. Paulo, who will start his presentation.

[Paulo Correa, executive]

Thank you, Carol. Good afternoon, everyone. I would like to start saying that, first of all, I believe C&A has already presented another solid quarter in terms of operating results, we are pretty satisfied with the results. We understand these results is a reflection with the care with our consumers, the dialogues and the lessons learned from -- that we've had with them, based on the data in our base. This is also a reflection or a result of the hard work of our team. And let me congratulate our team for that.

Well, this page here sums up the consistent operating evolution of C&A reflecting the strength of our operation in retail. The net revenue from Apparel was 12.6%. The gross margin expanded 2.3 bps, obviously, this has to do with the macro scenario that is pretty challenged and a competitive scenario also. What makes us believe that we've been advanced in our market share with a consistent increase in our profitability. This was the 7th consecutive quarter of increase in our gross margins. The combination of this improvement in sales in margin, associated to expense control left -- or made to the FDI to increase 40% and reaching BRL [ 195.6 ] million, and a margin of 12.7%.

We continue to prioritize our investments in CapEx. Our caps reduced [ BRL 49.9 million ], and we invested almost BRL 7 million this quarter. We managed to decrease the net debt of the company, 47% from BRL 1.5 billion to BRL 60 million. This is a very impressive result and achievement. A set of operating results that show the unquestionable evolution of C&A, especially in this challenging environment.

On this next slide, I would like to explore a little the pillars that have forward us to meet these results. First of all, our focus, more and more intense, in improving and improving our customer experiences, supported by research and constant discussions and dialogue with our customers, monitoring all the factors in terms of NPS store by store in our data, based from C&A and new relationship program, we have collected data regarding, for example, the increase of assortment, turnover in areas with a higher purchasing power, or the adoption of a more humanized behavior in purchase journey in physical stores. They have brought more sales in terms of NPS in square meter for each store.

We have also some results such as the improvement of the versatility of our collections. Our team has built more balanced collections with products that make it possible to -- that they are used in more than one occasion, which ends up generating a higher value perception in our customers, and more sales in our stores, demonstrating how right this strategy is.

The third pillar in this list, it has to do with the constant increase of effectivity in our decisions. our purchase, distribution and restocking decisions. The investments we started in 2021 and 2022 have led us to evolve constantly because the RFID's infrastructure that we implemented help us understand the granular talk in each store. Our CDI achieved a total of 37% of clothing stores, our -- has to do with the evolution of a push-and-pull model that reached the 37% in clothing sales.

This allows us to have a higher assertiveness in distribution and purchase, and our dynamic pricing models help us orchestrate the rhythm or the pace of sales and margin in our stores. Our commercial intelligence hub, supported by technology and artificial intelligence, has to do with the integration of all of these items and tools I've just described.

Let me also talk about the efficiency of our stocks. We still evolve as a consequence of new management capacities. We ended -- we finished the second quarter with very healthy and robust stocks, and the third quarter showed an increase of only 2% in stocks, considering sales growth, which is -- sorry, 12.6%. Our stocks are being generating more with more freshness in products, which results into less dependency on working capital.

I need to talk about our constant evolution and operating rate, BRL 260 million in this quarter, constant since the second quarter of 2023, being strict in managing working capital in approving and executing investments have led to that.

With that, I complete my presentation, and I pass the floor to Laurence.

[Laurence Gomes, executive]

Thank you, Paulo. Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you very much for your participation. In the next few slides, I'm going to show you some figures, some important and key message. I will try to be quick and objective, so we can get to the Q&A session.

Starting with sales, we presented Apparel revenue, especially in clothing, which grew 12.6% if compared to the third quarter of 2022. I believe that we have 3 main reasons that explain this. First, a versatile collection with a higher perceived value and the performance of the female sector, the women's clothing sector was pretty well accepted.

The second point is the efficiency in business processes, these processes, also mentioned by Paulo, like product development, restocking, distribution of basic products, technology behind of that.

And also finally, last but not less important, an improvement in the service in our channels, which also has had has played a very important role throughout this year.

On the next slide, let me talk about the growth margin. The indicator of gross margin on merchandise remains being a highlight. For the 7th consecutive quarter, it has expanded mainly due to the support of the evolution of the push-and-pull model that reached 37% of clothing sales, focusing on our biggest turnover products.

Also, the assertiveness of the collections and the continuous improvement of dynamic pricing, as well as the support of artificial intelligence in the purchase and supply management of our main products. And here, let me mention the good control of stocks, the efficiency of our stock management which has paved to the beginning of a fourth quarter with very young or new stocks if compared to previous quarters.

On the next slide, let me talk about operating expenses. We keep on having a very strict control, very attentive month-by-month, trying to have a very granularized control on these, and also with projects that may have anticipated expenses. This criterion, this selectivity is very, very important. And later, I'll talk about our CapEx.

In terms of SG&A, we had a decrease of 3 percentage points if compared to the third quarter of 2022. So 3 percentage points less.

Let me talk about the adjusted EBITDA, which reached BRL 195.6 million of growth, that if compared to the same quarter last year, with a margin expansion of 2.8 percentage points. This percentage points increase -- this has to do with the continuous margin expansion, which is the result of revenue growth, the expansion of our growth margin combined with this operational leverage.

Well, C&A Pay showed a good evolution and a good performance in the third quarter. The revenue achieved BRL 81 million, a relevant increase that proves the good acceptance of this product. Our portfolio ended the quarter at -- to BRL 725 million and 4.2 million digital cards have been issued.

We continue to focus on a strategy to further accelerate and engage our customer base, providing them with an agile and easy, almost invisible, and seamless experience. It's important to say that we believe that we have a risk appetite that is very adequate if you consider the current scenario. And C&A Pay is delivering a little better than expected. It's within the business plan and has to do with our modeling and our plan, and this is very important for the operation in the segment in financial products.

Then we have 90% of credits. And let me tell you that the -- sorry, the portfolio overdue for more than 90 days stood at 22.9% and ended the period with a total provision sufficient to cover 96% of credits overdue for more than 90 days.

In terms of investments, we invested BRL 50 million, invested in this quarter, which were almost all devoted to technology. And more important than that, they were devoted to enhance the core business. The enhancement of things that have to do with fashion products, distribution, pricing, the dynamic pricing and also the enhancement and the expansion of the knowledge about our customers, and the integration of these customers in all these core businesses.

In terms of cash generation, we had final cash flow that increased in BRL 156 million. The operating activities generated BRL 263 million, excluding here the effects of the anticipation of receivables. And then if considered this, it would have achieved BRL 313 million. We have a very, very good cash of BRL 50 million of investments and BRL 53 million in financing.

The important thing about this slide is that we have decreased our flow conversion cycle in almost 33%, very important. And in this last slide, let me talk about our debt. There was a relevant reduction in indicators of net debt and EBITDA resulting from the focus on operating cash in this process, also of prioritizing and optimizing our investments in our core business processes.

This is important to call your attention to the fact that even with the C&A Pay ramp-up, which has been funded by our balance, even with that, we managed to deliver an important reduction in our debt for a good start in 2024, to make sure that we will keep on following and pursuing this strategy to reduce our net debt.

All right. With that, I end this presentation and now let me ask Carol, who will help us throughout the Q&A session, okay?

[Carolina Martins, executive]

Very well. Thank you, Laurence. Now let's start our Q&A session. [Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from Danniela Eiger from XP.

[Danniela Eiger, analyst]

But I have 2 questions. One, what -- has to do with margin dynamics. First of all, congratulations for these results, for in Clothing and Apparel, very good.

Just let me understand a little bit, if you still have more opportunity to capture gross margin. And in terms of EBITDA margin, there's still an important gap if you consider other players. Some of this may be due to scale, but let us try and understand how we can close this gap in the short or medium term.

And then in terms of perspective, could you talk a little bit more about what you can see in relation to these aspects for the fourth quarter?

[Paulo Correa, executive]

Thank you very much for your questions. Let me tell you that in this first I mentioned, the dimension of opportunities to expand gross margin and EBITDA margins. We understand that, yes, we still have the opportunities to work to improve this, maybe the magnitude of merchandise gross margin is not exactly the same that we've had in the previous quarters, but certainly, there is an opportunity to expand this margin.

And in terms of EBITDA margin, in fact, we understand that we still have good room to advance in this aspect. We believe that the growth will dilute the percentage participation as it happened in the third quarter. And we expect to see this -- the continuity of this process in the next few quarters.

So regarding your second question, in the fourth quarter, I believe we've had a good start of this fourth quarter, according to our plan, we believe that the fourth quarter should have a minor impact because of this macro scenario in terms of interest rates, for instance. And there's also a comparison with that time, especially in last year in December, in Brazil. we are confident that we'll have a promising fourth quarter. And December is a very, very important month. It's worth 2 months, and we have had a good start in December, makes all the difference to the final results. I would say that we feel pretty positive regarding the fourth quarter.

[Carolina Martins, executive]

Next question comes from Ruben Couto from Santander.

[Ruben Couto, analyst]

Well, 2 questions. In terms of growth trends, both in the third quarter and also what you expect for the rest of the year. Can you talk about the volume? Have you seen a sequential growth versus the, I mean, from the second to the third? And do we expect more growth from the third to the quarter -- from the third to the fourth quarter?

And also, we have -- you've had a much more comfortable leverage limit, in terms of capital allocation, do you have any other form of using this cash flow that is a little bit more comfortable, I would say. Can you touch on this point.

[Paulo Correa, executive]

Well, thank you, Ruben. Let me start with the first question. You talked about trends. So Laurence will tackle the second question. But first, let me talk about the first part of your question. Our expectation, I believe that if we try to understand the whole year, we've had a very kind of hard first quarter. The second quarter was hurt by a high baseline of 2022 due to the lower temperatures. And here, the opposite happened.

And this third quarter, I would say, was a little bit more regular if you consider the comparison basis. And we believe that the fourth quarter will be closer to this third quarter results, just to give you a bit of understanding on this topic.

[Laurence Gomes, executive]

Ruben, I believe that before I answered your question, let me tell you that we're in the middle of this process of building the 2024 budget, we're having discussion on how to allocate our capital. We don't -- I mean, we can't answer this question precisely yet.

However, we believe that there are opportunities, projects not necessarily linked to the organic expansion yet, of projects that strengthen our business processes. And we also believe that we will continue following on this path of financial leverage to prioritize CapEx, this priority will keep on going in 2024.

[Carolina Martins, executive]

Next question comes from João Soares from Citi.

[Joao Pedro Soares, analyst]

Congratulations on your results very impressive. I would like to explore a little bit, this growth. I believe there was a very important role of credit building with C&A Pay. And let me ask about the level of relevance. And if we try to understand the leverage is from before the implementation of push and pull, the credit platform and the changes in collections.

Let me -- I would like to ask you about to talk more about those pillars that I believe that leverage those growth. And in terms of capital structure, how do you see the possibility because you can see that your actions are doing well, because of this hard work, this hard and consistent work we've done. But how can we expect to reinforce capital structure to more growth next year?

[Laurence Gomes, executive]

Let me just sum up to try and tell the history of C&A. When we had the IPO, we had 4 main leverages through which we could raise and expand our value.

The expansion of physical stores, we have expanded with over 50 additional stores to our portfolio. The supply dynamics because we had a modernization that our modernization gap that we needed to close. We've made important investments in our distribution centers. We created the capacities of better monitoring in our stores with implementation of RFID, and also based on SKU distribution.

And all of this in the set of technology tools for better management, to predict stocks, granularity of the pricing dynamics, all of this ended up creating an important capacity, which brought not only an increase in margin, but also an increase in revenue. All of this leverage points, along with the technology dynamics, they have had -- they have played a very important role in the results we've achieved.

And the third point, which would be the capacity of digitalize the company, the 1/3 of our leverage points in which today we see digital participation or digital share in our journeys that is very important in all of our omnichannel routes that we have.

Back then, we would talk more about channel. And today, we try to avoid this word because by the end of -- I mean, by the end of the day, digital has become the norm today, many investments have been made for us to build capacities in the company's core activities, core business.

In product dynamics, product development dynamics, pricing dynamics, sales, provisioning, prediction and restocking prices, as we said, all of these dynamics generate, or they are decisions that are made every day and make all the difference for our results, both in margins and sales. We want to bring our capacity and intelligence to make these decisions in a more granular fashion with a higher impact, along with the supply leverage, this has been a very important element in the achievement of these results.

And the fourth element, which is the ability of making credit decisions, once again, that we could recover this by the end of 2022 with the launch of C&A Pay, I mean this has been very good. It has been a good leverage for the business as a whole. Credit and retail is very important, and the building of this credit model, looking not only at the financial results that credit allow, but also to the commercial results that these products transactions allow us to achieve. And we had a biased look, a biased view, only thinking about the financial results, but we have changed, and this has been important to foster sales, because not only credit dynamics to make the sales is important, but also the data dynamics that we manage to have with our customers, relationships because they pay their installments, they pay monthly, they make monthly payments. So we end up gathering more data about this relationship.

These elements have been very key to this development. We started making these investments in 2021. And by the end of 2022, and now in 2023, we are reaping the benefits because these elements and these projects, they self-leverage each other. They self impact, they impact one another, and they lead to more growth.

Well, João, let me tell you that we have no plan to expand our capital right now because we believe that the needed CapEx for next year will be focused on these initiatives we discussed to strengthen our core business. So this would be the first point. We will keep on doing this. We believe that is the trajectory to reduce our debt.

And more importantly, we believe that by strengthening the core, with the development and integration more and more of the integration among these hubs or these parts that Paulo mentioned, we believe that we'll have a better productivity, extract more value from the -- from what we have today, more sales per square meter of our stores park, very well located. So we want to increase our sales per square meters. That's what all of our investments are focused on expansion and the deepening of the initiatives that are ongoing that we have already -- and we have already started to see the benefits of them now on our results.

[Joao Pedro Soares, analyst]

Just briefly, let me talk about the cash flow, I'm not sure if I'm right, but there was a tax incidence. I don't think it's a tax. How do you understand the schedule going forward?

[Laurence Gomes, executive]

This is a note to explain the PIS and COFINS tax credit, and there is a relevant amount of credits that are compensated, this is important every year, there is a cash flow effect PIS and COFINS tax credits. They are paid, and they are also described in our notes in the quarter information.

[Carolina Martins, executive]

Next question comes from Evan Ruben (sic) [ Andrew Ruben ] from Morgan Stanley.

[Andrew Ruben, analyst]

I'm interested in the comment that the sales increased more in stores and higher income areas, I'm curious, what you'd attribute that to? Is it the economic backdrop, how the collections were resonating? And then also, you're going to lean in to the capsule collections in these areas, would be curious to understand more of that strategy.

[Paulo Correa, executive]

This is a theme we've been trying to develop. Laurence has just mentioned there is an initiative to leverage sales per square meters, and we are better at understanding the needs and the needs of each store, and we do it store by store.

So in higher -- in regions with a higher purchasing power, we can see the improvement of these stores, above the average of C&A. And so we work with specific solutions for this specific segments by building additional assortments to be offered in these stores and this has increased sales per square meter in these stores, and also enhanced value that is perceived by our customers based on NPS. We also have built solutions for stores located in lower purchasing power -- so we have managed to have lower tickets for this lower purchasing power regions, and we have tuned fine-tuned these stores to have better results, and they have paid off. And this has to do with the income of the country and the income of this consumer group, and as we have a great capillarity throughout the country, we can cover the needs of various purchasing powers in the country.

I don't know if Donatti would like -- would you like to say something about that?

[Francislei Cassio Donatti, executive]

The most important thing is what we have developed capsules and assortments that are adequate or more adequate for these higher purchasing power stores. And we have felt a good response by our customers. And we can also have a special focus in stores located in lower purchasing power stores. We want to increase this and feed this model. If performances are doing well in this high-end stores, that is a good thing, but we can also do something as stores are located in lower purchasing power areas to also leverage sales there.

[Carolina Martins, executive]

Now let's listen to João Paulo Andrade from Bradesco BBI. João, can you hear us? [Operator Instructions] Okay. We move forward to the next question, and then we will get back to you, okay? So now let's listen to Ms. [indiscernible] from Goldman Sachs.

[Unknown Analyst]

I would like to know about this same store. If you could talk about this break between volume and price and the evolution of this aspect throughout the month or the quarters, and how you see this balance not only for considering the fourth quarter, but also looking a little bit in 2024, given all of these enhancements and expansions to develop products, and also further develop collections and improved logistics, but also considering occasional pressures coming from the competition. We know that we have the competition from a cross-border that might take a little longer, and also consider the moments the consumers are going through, how can you balance all of these variables for the for the fourth quarter and 2024?

And the second question has to do a bit with the funding of consumers, our credit availability to consumers. Obviously, there is a fair balance between risks and the payoffs are the impact on sales. So again, I would like to know if you have any study or assessment to try and understand how well sales can be leveraged and supported by that? And what you believe to be the best balance to do that, and also in terms of risk taking?

[Paulo Correa, executive]

Thank you, a, for your questions. Let me talk about the macro scenario here and later, Donatti will also join in talking about price versus volume. And then Brossi will talk a little bit about the administration on or credit management.

In the macro scenario, it's important to mention that as this integrated management model that we have for both stocks and pricing, in this plan, this mass of deals with -- or changes a bit, the strategies, because we have managed to advance in average price and volume with a very reasonable balance between these 2 aspects.

Looking forward, we aim at maintaining this balance, enhancing and expanding the value and increasing this mix with time, but at the same time, gaining volume in the quantity of pieces of clothing, of pieces of products we sell.

[Francislei Cassio Donatti, executive]

That's nice. Let me join it and say that it's important to highlight that this sales increase has been built in a balanced way. When we look at our SGM, we had a sales increase of pieces by ticket, which is very hard in our business. We've had increasing sales and conversion in our stores. This shows that our collections are well accepted and our development is well accepted.

And it's important to say that we went through a key difference when it comes to developing our collections. Because in the past, we looked at the trends at the products, what was going on in Europe, in the U.S., but we have changed our trader commercial team they look more, they focus more on behavior. Then we started focusing more on behavior, we managed to have easier collections. They are more in tune with our consumers, which led to more sales. The female clothing department has responded very well to that to the, to those strategy.

So among others, and the expectation for the fourth quarter and for next year is that sales increase comes from these 2 areas in increasing the number of parts sold and also the price.

Now talking about credit, just let me give you a quick context. Our Pay strategy, the C&A Pay, was to start this with a moderate appetite, and differently from the places where credit recovery was necessary. Here in the C&A Pay, we do not see this need. We would expect that the models would be developed to deal with default. But the default expected is 15% and 20% lower for Pay. This makes us believe that we are in a robust period, and also, there is a pay express. They can ask for this card on the cashier right away.

And so the expectation and this will grow, and I believe one thing that you talked about was our partnership. If you consider C&A Pay increased 8 points if compared to last year, and there was a reduction of credit partnership. Today, 4% of share comes from this partnership. They had this goal of penetrating in the retail. But we will continue increasing this development for next year.

[Carolina Martins, executive]

Well, João Paulo Andrade, he has sent his questions using the Q&A, and he has 2 questions, it is, do you believe you managed to get, or to gain share in the A and D areas competitors? How do you see your value proposition if compared to other players?

[Francislei Cassio Donatti, executive]

I believe that in this competitive dynamics, considering this investment data in this quarter, obviously, we do not have the growth of data in those in A, D regions. But we do believe that we are gaining share in these areas, and we believe that we still have a good potential to advance. I wouldn't name the player against who, I mean, it's harder to say that in this moment, but we believe that there is opportunity to grow. We can provide them with a more relevant, more attractive proposition to these segments. And we are working hard to do that with several hints or several information that makes us believe that this will be a positive investment.

[Carolina Martins, executive]

His second question is, how far do you believe the investments that have already been made can reach in push-and-pull penetration? If you believe there is a ceiling close to the current asset structure.

[Francislei Cassio Donatti, executive]

Right now, we have 37% of our push-and-pull volume. We must end the year by around 40% as we said in the beginning of the year, and maybe can reach 50% to 60% next year in 2024, but we must be very diligent in terms of push and pull. We need to look for this 80-20 ratio to understand how beneficial it is to put all of your business in push and pull or not.

So we've been very diligent in our investments and expenses, at this first moment, we will take this leap but always evaluating whether this is a positive move for the business or not. It's not -- the idea is not to just do it just because we want to do it. We always aim at maximizing the results.

[Carolina Martins, executive]

Now we close our question-and-answer session, and Paulo, I'll give you the floor for your closing remarks.

[Paulo Correa, executive]

I would like to thank you all for your participation, and let me reaffirm the confidence this team has in the evolution of C&A operating performance throughout this semester and throughout this past few quarters, is a continuous and progressive growth. And this has been made available, this is the result of the improved experience our customers have in our stores and NPS chose this clearly.

But also, it has to do with the quality built in the company in the past few years. These 2 elements aligned to the quality of our team and the energy and the will to deliver a superior result an offer to our customers makes us truly believe that we are in the beginning of our journey, we still have much to evolve, much to develop in terms of general results. I would like to thank you all, I wish you have a wonderful rest of the day and see you next time.

[Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]